The Case of the Expanding Ring Gauge

[Mr. Ed]

So, I walked into a local B&M yesterday and saw an article in CA online about a 64 RG cigar by E.P. Carillo.

64!!!!

That's one inch!!!! Now, I know it's been a trend for a while now, but why? Most connoisseurs, manufacturers, B&M owners (and more generally "people in the know") seem to prefer thinner RG cigars. Even Cooba is riding this wave of bigger/thicker sticks.

Do you think this is a passing fad? Will we have novelty cigars be the norm (anyone remember those Fuente football cigar pictures?)? How big is too big?:hy

More importantly, why is this trend happening? I mean, the cigar boom days of fly-by-night smokers are over, right? What's driving this?

Sorry for all the questions. Too much time to think. :D

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/16515

[T.G]

Most connoisseurs, manufacturers, B&M owners (and more generally "people in the know") seem to prefer thinner RG cigars.

These people are the in the minority when it comes to purchasing.

The people who buy a few cigars at a time, and typically consume them as they purchase, comprise a much larger percentage of the market, and they're buying larger RGs right now, so as long as they keep buying the larger RGs, manufacturers will keep making them.

[pektel]

I certainly hope it is a passing trend. I'm not a fan of large rg cigars at all.

Typically 46 rg or less, with a few exceptions. For example, the Sig VI with some age is amazing. But for the most part, I find it also takes more skill to blend and roll a smaller rg cigar.

[The Poet]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." - Sigmund Freud (attributed).

"And sometimes it's a honkin' fat phallus." - The Poet (just now).

[Mr. Ed]

These people are the in the minority when it comes to purchasing.


I'm aware. What I find interesting (and this is a purely anecdotal observation) is that the boutique guys seemed to be really into making thinner RG cigars, but not so much anymore. I don't know. Has anyone else noticed this?

[htown]

"And sometimes it's a honkin' fat phallus." - The Poet (just now).

Interesting- what does that mean? (sarcasm- no answer needed)

[Commander Quan]

I think there is a financial advantage to making cigars larger as well. The cost of the extra tobacco in a 60RG cigar is minimal over what it would take to make a 45rg but the cost of rolling, packaging, and shipping is exactly the same, and a box of large cigars takes up almost the same amount of space on a B&Ms shelf. Larger RG cigars sell for more than smaller sized ones, so if an extra $20 can be made on a box of large cigars it's in the manufacturers, and retailers advantage to produce and sell products that that maximize their resources.

[CRIMPS]

Four of my Non-Cigar smoking friends go to a B&M and buy cigars to smoke that night at a party. They all walk our with 55+RG sized churchill cigars. They had no idea what they bought, but they sure looked cool.

This is your majority.

[Mr. Ed]

I think there is a financial advantage to making cigars larger as well. The cost of the extra tobacco in a 60RG cigar is minimal over what it would take to make a 45rg but the cost of rolling, packaging, and shipping is exactly the same, and a box of large cigars takes up almost the same amount of space on a B&Ms shelf. Larger RG cigars sell for more than smaller sized ones, so if an extra $20 can be made on a box of large cigars it's in the manufacturers, and retailers advantage to produce and sell products that that maximize their resources.

That's definitely an interesting take. I guess tradition can be ignored for some extra bucks.

[Mr. Ed]

Four of my Non-Cigar smoking friends go to a B&M and buy cigars to smoke that night at a party. They all walk our with 55+RG sized churchill cigars. They had no idea what they bought, but they sure looked cool.

This is your majority.

Yea, I've definitely seen that before. I always figure the B&M owner would gently guide them in the other direction hehehe.

Maybe it's an advertising thing to challenge our machismo? I don't know, just trying to figure out why.

[Brutus2600]

Brooks and I were at a B&M the other day and a guy walked up to us with a LFD Digger. Brooks asked him how he liked the cigar and he said it was "It's cool, what I like about this is that I can light it up at the beginning of a football game and smoke the cigar for three hours. If I bought two smaller cigars at $8 a pop I'd be paying $16 for the same amount of smoking time that I get from the Digger for $11."

Didn't say anything about the flavor or how good the cigar was, just that he liked the value.

So, people like big honking cigars. I'm not a fan of them, at all. Anything over 58RG is just uncomfortable for me to smoke, honestly. But cigar smokers as a whole prefer them, whether it's a "bargain" (as the guy stated above), because it's cool, or because they just honestly prefer a huge-ass cigar.

There have been quite a few 64 RG cigars coming out recently though, so is 64RG a new trend or have we just slowly ramped up to this size over the last decade? That's the question we'll have to wait and see answered.

[Dunkel]

Victor Sinclair has a few out that are 70 ring. I have smoked 60 ring cigars and enjoyed them, but I don't prefer them.

[Mr. Ed]

"It's cool, what I like about this is that I can light it up at the beginning of a football game and smoke the cigar for three hours. If I bought two smaller cigars at $8 a pop I'd be paying $16 for the same amount of smoking time that I get from the Digger for $11."

That's some wonderful insight. Never thought about it from that perspective. My line of thinking in that situation would be along the lines of let me start off with something mild and light and move onto something full bodied and and spicy.

[Commander Quan]

I actually have a couple of those Big Surs. They've been sitting in the humi for about 7 years waiting for the right time.

[T.G]

Yea, I've definitely seen that before. I always figure the B&M owner would gently guide them in the other direction hehehe.

Maybe it's an advertising thing to challenge our machismo? I don't know, just trying to figure out why.


Over the past 7-8 months I've turned a few of the "big cigar, big ring" less experienced smokers (in other words, members of the majority) into people who now prefer smaller ring gauge cigars. Funny, one of them is totally hooked on lanceros and coronas now - won't smoke anything else.

One of them was into the larger RG cigars because of the "better tobacco to dollar ratio". That was his primary reason for the 54-56RG toro sized cigars that he smoked - he hadn't even really tried the smaller cigars, he just went right for that extra $1 for the supersized McCigar.

Another was just basing it off what smoked on the golf course where a big cigar will last the better part of 9 holes.

Another reason I've often heard is that they prefer how the big cigars smoke cooler. Ok, makes sense if you aren't going to slow down when you smoke a thinner RG.

In all the cases, it was they simply didn't know any better - no one ever explained it to them. They just walked into a shop and bought what made sense to them.

[Brutus2600]

That's some wonderful insight. Never thought about it from that perspective. My line of thinking in that situation would be along the lines of let me start off with something mild and light and move onto something full bodied and and spicy.

The problem is we're looking at it from the wrong angle. We love cigars and our hobby is to find that perfect cigar to smoke. The average cigar smoker is a lot less discerning that we are. I'll gladly pay another $5 to have two good cigars over saving $5 and smoking one mediocre cigar. Or I'll buy a small, dainty looking cigar knowing it's going to be a great little flavor bomb, because I don't care how I look smoking it.

[bobarian]

I think you will find many more large RG introductions at IPCPR(sp?) this fall. :2

[N2 GOLD]

I hope, its just passing us by. Because, I just don't have the time for 3 plus hour stick. -(P

[icehog3]

I think there is a financial advantage to making cigars larger as well. The cost of the extra tobacco in a 60RG cigar is minimal over what it would take to make a 45rg but the cost of rolling, packaging, and shipping is exactly the same, and a box of large cigars takes up almost the same amount of space on a B&Ms shelf. Larger RG cigars sell for more than smaller sized ones, so if an extra $20 can be made on a box of large cigars it's in the manufacturers, and retailers advantage to produce and sell products that that maximize their resources.

Not to mention that the thin RG cigars are more difficult to roll, meaning you need better (maybe higher paid / more experienced) rollers working for you to roll them.

[massphatness]

So much sadness in this thread for me ...

[FriendlyMan]

I would think it’s not made to be an everyday stick. And it is probably made for those that are or they are not to familiar with RG or don’t smoke at all and want to surprise someone.

I would name it the "show off" stick.
Or the occasion Cigar etc....

[jluck]

I started out smoking large RG cigars, It was the cool kid thing to do....dont 'ya know. After dropping (spitting) out a lit 54 RG torpedo in my lap and spitting a just lit MUWAT on a dirty shop floor I gave up, smoked up most of the bigger stuff or gave them away. Once I figured out how much more pleasure there is in a 36-46 RG cigar I don't see ever going back, Even in a cigar has some catchy marketing name (dirty hooker,toxic shock etc.) I will stick to the smaller ones thanks.

My A.D.D also likes the hour or less mark.:tu

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

f*ck 54 + rg cigars:noon

[jluck]

f*ck 54 + rg cigars:noon

Don't hold back how you really feel.:r

[lenguamor]

Four of my Non-Cigar smoking friends go to a B&M and buy cigars to smoke that night at a party. They all walk our with 55+RG sized churchill cigars. They had no idea what they bought, but they sure looked cool.

This is your majority.

This. Been saying it for a while, but we're in a new boom. A lot of guys who never smoked before and won't after the novelty wears off in a while, following the credo of "bigger is better."

The pendulum will swing back, but it'll be a while.

[oooo35980]

Sheesh so much hate for the big RG Cigars. I personally enjoy the bigger RG cigars quite a bit. 6x60 is a perfectly manageable size for me and I can smoke on it for hours, plus the draw is usually looser so it has less chance of triggering a migraine. I don't smoke them exclusively by any means but they have their place. I also enjoy Toros, Robustos, PCs, Lanceros, Churchills, and a variety of other sizes, an occasional pipe is nice too. Variety is the spice of life after all.

[Brooks W]

I think you will find many more large RG introductions at IPCPR(sp?) this fall. :2

Yep.

In fact, if you would like, you can see a list of all of the cigars that have been or will be released in 2012 (over 750 of them!) here:

http://www.halfwheel.com/2012newcigars/

Most have links to info about what the RGs are...here is a hint: LOTS of cigars over 56 RG.

[Brooks W]

Honestly, with a few exceptons, I do not smoke any RG above about 56 unless I am reviewing it.

Having said that, there are some cigars that are actually blended specifically for the larger RG that they come in...the Inch is one of those, and usually, if they are actually blended that way, then some of them can be quite good (I have not had the Inch yet, so don't know if that is the case with it, just using it as an example)...

[CRIMPS]

Thumbs up to pretty much everything being said here.

Of the movies listed in the cigars in cinema, what percentage of the cigars are lanceros, PCs, and coronas? The power of media and entertainment.

[icehog3]

Thumbs up to pretty much everything being said here.

Of the movies listed in the cigars in cinema, what percentage of the cigars are lanceros, PCs, and coronas? The power of media and entertainment.

Lots oif the old westerns on there actually do have lancero and even cigarillo sized cigars.-(P

The mob films....not so much. :r

[maninblack]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. I prefer large ring gauge cigars, and have been smoking for many years now. I must be in the "minority" but obviously not if they keep making them. I have lots of time at work and home to enjoy them and I love the flavors in them. And the longer smoking time allows me to sit back, relax and just do lots of thinking.

[Col. Kurtz]

When I first started I saw the larger smokes as a greater value. It was just a $.50 or $1 more for a 7x54 than a robusto or smaller. And no way would I spend $10+ on a lancero?? I was hunting a bargain. Got my feet wet and smoked more small smokes after reading opinions at the old place and here. I can only guess the demand is from casual or beginning smokers. I also postulate that as members of a cigar forum we are in the minority of smokers. Those that buy the donkey phallus don't usually seem interested enough to join a forum and discuss them. We're outnumbered.

I'm still glad I had a chance to smoke them all; and I still curse the man who PIF'd me that first Party short. To paraphrase Brad: my ashtray is littered with the ashes of countless white whales trying to recapture that first experience..

[Mr. Ed]

I also enjoy Toros, Robustos, PCs, Lanceros, Churchills, and a variety of other sizes, an occasional pipe is nice too. Variety is the spice of life after all.

And that's what really matters. It's just frustrating seeing new brands/blends coming out that only offer 52-60 ring gauge and even Habanos paring their catalogue and introducing bigger RG smokes. You can even tell the difference looking at the big established brands (from Altadis/General) that offer smokes in a variety of vitolas. I guess tradition can only go so far.

[Mr. Ed]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. I prefer large ring gauge cigars, and have been smoking for many years now.

Of course! I'm just frustrated that more options aren't being offered

[Mr. Ed]

Not to mention that the thin RG cigars are more difficult to roll, meaning you need better (maybe higher paid / more experienced) rollers working for you to roll them.

I was always under the impression that larger vitolas (churchills/double coronas) are more difficult to roll and require more experienced rollers.

[icehog3]

I was always under the impression that larger vitolas (churchills/double coronas) are more difficult to roll and require more experienced rollers.

When we have had some of the more reknowned rollers roll cigars for group buys (La China, Hamlet, Taboada), I was told that they said the thinner RG took more skill. That's all second hand though, I have never met any of them.

[Mr.Weeee]

so what do you think about the Nub 4.0" x 60 great stick and big RG

[icehog3]

so what do you think about the Nub 4.0" x 60 great stick and big RG

My opinion? Trash. But smoke what you like, like what you smoke. ;)

[sevans105]

Just from my own experience, when I first started in cigar world, I was very status oriented as so I smoked Churchills, etc. not because I really liked them, but because they looked cool. Since that beginning, I've graduated to other sizes...I tend to like torpedoes and perfectos. My friends always grab the churchill's as well.

[T.G]

When we have had some of the more reknowned rollers roll cigars for group buys (La China, Hamlet, Taboada), I was told that they said the thinner RG took more skill. That's all second hand though, I have never met any of them.

This has been my observation/experience too while at the NC factories.
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[area51]

I like cigars....Now that I've gotten that out of the way, who am I to say that 64 and bigger is ridiculous. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. Personally if it is a good stick I will smoke it. There is a market for everything hence why your seeing bigger smokes.

[jluck]

I like cigars....Now that I've gotten that out of the way, who am I to say that 64 and bigger is ridiculous. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. Personally if it is a good stick I will smoke it. There is a market for everything hence why your seeing bigger smokes.

I feel if a cigar is uncomfortable or awkward in the mouth, It's ridiculous. If the particular cigar is not available in a smaller vitola I can kinda see it. I will still pass thanks.

[area51]

I feel if a cigar is uncomfortable or awkward in the mouth, It's ridiculous. If the particular cigar is not available in a smaller vitola I can kinda see it. I will still pass thanks.

I agree completely, but like others have stated there is a market for the fly by night smokers who think bigger is better. In their eyes it may be.

[maninblack]

Again it's not just "fly by night smokers" that like bigger cigars. I am in no way a newb or a fly by night smoker. It gets old getting thrown into that group just because I like them. So now we have RG snobs on top of CC snobs? Really?

[pnoon]

Again it's not just "fly by night smokers" that like bigger cigars. I am in no way a newb or a fly by night smoker. It gets old getting thrown into that group just because I like them. So now we have RG snobs on top of CC snobs? Really?

Just as it gets old being thrown into the CC snob group because I smoke CCs. :rolleyes:

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't sweat it. I didn't see anyone claiming YOU were part of the "fly by night smokers"
I could care less that people think I am a CC snob. They obviously don't know me. As far as I am concerned, those peckerheads can judge me all they want.

[maninblack]

I was talking about another member here that looks down on those of us that don't partake in CC's. But that's ok. I've never been called refined or distinguished . I am what I am. And proud of it.

[Blak Smyth]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. I prefer large ring gauge cigars, and have been smoking for many years now. I must be in the "minority" but obviously not if they keep making them. I have lots of time at work and home to enjoy them and I love the flavors in them. And the longer smoking time allows me to sit back, relax and just do lots of thinking.

*Doesn't like CCs
*Likes large RGs
*Doesn't claim to be distinguished
*Doesn't claim to be refined
*Never got a pony for Xmas

JK MIB, you know I love you, even though you are a LRG NC snob! You and Taki both, Hahah.


I stay away from larger RGs, they just feel wrong.
I try to stay under a 54 if possible, I thought for a while I was going to be into only lanceros and panatela RGs but have really enjoyed some robustos and coronas recently that opened up my mind a bit.

[Mikepd]

Some have said I have the palate of a goat, but no one has ever said I had the jaw of a gorilla! Sorry no big ring gauges for me.

[hammondc]

Like a lot of folks here, I started out with the larger RG stuff. LGC Serie R were my favorite for a long time. Now I doubt there is a single cigar over 50rg that I would buy. Now, 9/10 of the cigars I smoke are Corona/PC.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Again it's not just "fly by night smokers" that like bigger cigars. I am in no way a newb or a fly by night smoker. It gets old getting thrown into that group just because I like them. So now we have RG snobs on top of CC snobs? Really?

Don't worry about it. There's Tat snobs out there too you know:sh

But really, 64 rg cigar is redic:r

[Mr. Ed]

I like cigars....Now that I've gotten that out of the way, who am I to say that 64 and bigger is ridiculous. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. Personally if it is a good stick I will smoke it. There is a market for everything hence why your seeing bigger smokes.

The only problem with this ring gauge issue is that it doesn't seem to be limited to one brand or a few brands, but is happening all across the board with new releases and even CCs.

[massphatness]

There is a market for everything hence why your seeing bigger smokes.
Cigars are a market-driven commodity. (For other statements of the obvious, please check out my blog: Don't_You_Know_Who_I_Think_I_Am.com :D) Obviously, these larger RG sticks are in high demand. What depresses me is fewer and fewer new offerings of smaller RG smokes as well as the discontinuation of a lot short & skinnies. Moe was recently in NYC hob-nobbing with an owner from an LCDH in Germany, and the guy was saying something like 90%+ of his sales were robusto-sized sticks. NINETY PERCENT! That's not fly by night ...

those peckerheads can judge me all they want.
http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/41/83/59918341/photos/Drawings/uvebeenjudged.jpg

[Mr. Ed]

Again it's not just "fly by night smokers" that like bigger cigars. I am in no way a newb or a fly by night smoker. It gets old getting thrown into that group just because I like them. So now we have RG snobs on top of CC snobs? Really?

No. Nobody was trying to lump anyone into this group or that. I was just commenting on a trend I've noticed (from my point of view somewhat disappointing) that manufacturers are not releasing many small ring gauge cigars anymore with their new brands and that even CCs (which come from a very long tradition) are showing signs of this trend. I was simply seeking an answer as to why, which went beyond, "that's what the people want." I guess the second question was, why do people want to smoke large RG cigars? If you read through the thread, I think there are a few good answers to both questions. :2

[Silound]

When we have had some of the more reknowned rollers roll cigars for group buys (La China, Hamlet, Taboada), I was told that they said the thinner RG took more skill. That's all second hand though, I have never met any of them.

I was told by an Altadis rep that if you looked at cigar manufacturing as bunchers (the people who actually roll the tobacco, bind it, and put it into forms) and finishers (the people who apply the wrapper), the harder job was always bunching a larger smoke and finishing the smaller smokes.

This may not be the case for companies that manufacture cigars start to finish by one roller, I really don't know.



Personally, as a hobbyist and enthusiast, I find there's a certain blend-to-size feeling I get with some cigars. I like the original La Aroma de Cuba in a 60rg more than any other size, but I can't stand Pepin Black Labels in anything over a 52. Just some blends lean themselves towards a larger ring better than others. Perdomo Lot 23 is another smoke I don't like in anything other than the 4x60 size. Can't even begin to explain why on that one.

[oooo35980]

I feel if a cigar is uncomfortable or awkward in the mouth, It's ridiculous. If the particular cigar is not available in a smaller vitola I can kinda see it. I will still pass thanks.

I think what you mean is uncomfortable or awkward in your mouth. Like I said I don't have any trouble smoking a 6x60 or larger, it isn't like you have to be a snake and unhinge your jaw to smoke the larger RG cigars.

[Brutus2600]

Again it's not just "fly by night smokers" that like bigger cigars. I am in no way a newb or a fly by night smoker. It gets old getting thrown into that group just because I like them. So now we have RG snobs on top of CC snobs? Really?

And that's ok that you DO like larger cigars Kevin. There are good, larger RG cigars out there. The Cain F 660, MUWAT (7, 6, and 5 x 60), and even the 6 x 64 Casa Magna Gigantores (http://halfwheel.com/?p=26791) (even though made me sick it was so strong) are all pretty good, big-ass cigars.

I know you smoke good cigars and I'm sure you don't just walk into a B&M and choose a cigar simply and singularly based on it's size. I think those are the cigar consumers we're talking about (well, at least I am).

Hell, I'm a self professed small RG and lancero lover, but I will still on occasion and depending on what activity I'm about to do, grab a long, large RG cigar. If you have a lot of time at home to smoke I can't fault you for grabbing something that fits the bill :tu

However if you start smoking the Puros Indios Chief on the regular we might need to have a talk :r:r

[CRIMPS]

Cigars are a market-driven commodity. (For other statements of the obvious, please check out my blog: Don't_You_Know_Who_I_Think_I_Am.com :D) Obviously, these larger RG sticks are in high demand. What depresses me is fewer and fewer new offerings of smaller RG smokes as well as the discontinuation of a lot short & skinnies. Moe was recently in NYC hob-nobbing with an owner from an LCDH in Germany, and the guy was saying something like 90%+ of his sales were robusto-sized sticks. NINETY PERCENT! That's not fly by night ...


Yep. This is what bothers me. Smoke what you want. I don't care. But don't discontinue the stuff I prefer.

[icehog3]

So now we have RG snobs on top of CC snobs? Really?

Having a preference makes one a "snob"? Then aren't you a large RG snob? ;)

I was talking about another member here that looks down on those of us that don't partake in CC's. But that's ok. I've never been called refined or distinguished . I am what I am. And proud of it.

I'm sorry. I only look down on those members that I am taller than. :noon

[smitty81]

I had my first 60 ga. cigar the other day. I thought it was to big but once I started smoking it, I didn't mind it.

I don't think I would like anything bigger though.

[CigarDojo]

Do you think this is a passing fad? Will we have novelty cigars be the norm (anyone remember those Fuente football cigar pictures?)? How big is too big?:hyGreat topic idea!

When I first started smoking cigars I liked the HUGE ring gauges. Now I find myself preferring cigars that are right in the middle i.e., 50-52

[md4958]

I'll smoke just about anything. NC, CC, Large RG, Thin RG.

I PREFER CCs with thin RG because I feel like I derive the most flavor out of them, with the least amount of harshness.

Would I smoke a 64RG, sure.. why not? The amount of time the cigar actually spends time in your mouth in a 90 minute smoke is probably only 5-7 minutes anyway. I wouldnt go out and purchase one, but if it was gifted to me Id thank them and smoke it.

I dont get the guys that say "i cant fit it in my mouth!"... I guess none of those guys ever ate a banana. The human mouth is capable of swallowing much larger than 1 inch diameter... I can provide references to some ex-girlfriends that can verify this! :xxx

I think its all gimmicky. It seems like the cigar manufacturers are trying to have the biggest cigar out there, and get mentions in Cigar Aficionado and have people talking about it.

All that being said, Id rather smoke a ERDM demi-tasse than a 8x60 $8 cigar thats made with $hit tobacco

[357]

Sheesh so much hate for the big RG Cigars. I personally enjoy the bigger RG cigars quite a bit. 6x60 is a perfectly manageable size for me and I can smoke on it for hours, plus the draw is usually looser so it has less chance of triggering a migraine. I don't smoke them exclusively by any means but they have their place. I also enjoy Toros, Robustos, PCs, Lanceros, Churchills, and a variety of other sizes, an occasional pipe is nice too. Variety is the spice of life after all.

I think many of us who don't love the big RG cigars are concerned because small RG cigars are being fazed out and discontinued. Many new cigars aren't offered in lancero, petite corona, or corona sizes at all.

Like a lot of folks here, I started out with the larger RG stuff. LGC Serie R were my favorite for a long time. Now I doubt there is a single cigar over 50rg that I would buy. Now, 9/10 of the cigars I smoke are Corona/PC.

This is the same for me. My first box purchase was LGC Serie R #7 maduro (7 x 58 monsters). Now my fav go to is the San Cristobal El Principe (4.25 x 42).

I could care less that people think I am a CC snob. They obviously don't know me. As far as I am concerned, those peckerheads can judge me all they want.

Nobody likes judgemental peckerheads. :gary them.

I'm sorry. I only look down on those members that I am taller than. :noon

Does that make me elitist because I'm taller than most?

[lenguamor]

As a smoker, all you want is to know that the cigars you love, that those you value and enjoy, will be available when you want them.

If you like the smaller gauges and the cigar-making world as a whole is moving toward larger gauges, that's worrisome; when that happens to the exclusion of the vitolas you hold dear, you react like a dog who's just had his tail stepped on: you yelp and maybe try to bite something.

My first cigar, and the only size I smoked for decades, was a corona. Since I discovered ninfas, that became my favorite vitola. I will always prefer a corona, petit corona, ninfa and lancero to any other size. Over the last decade I've seen the cigars I hold dearest discontinued in favor of larger gauges.

That does tend to piss one off.

I couldn't care less what anyone else smokes; as long as it's not a Kuba-Kuba anywhere near where I'm smoking one of my cigars.

But when a pattern of larger rings displacing those I love and enjoy becomes institutionalized to the point where I can't even find my preferences anymore, then yeah—there's gonna be resentment.

That's not to say that all 55+RG are bad; certain cigars like the FFP stand out as prime examples that a larger stick can still be a good one. But fact is, cigar shops only have space for so many cigars, and my preferences are getting pushed out in favor of the large stuff.

When I was at Casa Fernandez earlier in the year, they showed a prototype 7x70 they were working on. Now, CF's blends are all ass-kickers, across the board...put that in a 7x70 and what you have amounts to a prank, a novelty.

It leaves me wondering when this cigar passion of ours became a testosterone-fueled endurance contest.

Beer bong and a clown cigar, anyone?

[ApexAZ]

Four of my Non-Cigar smoking friends go to a B&M and buy cigars to smoke that night at a party. They all walk our with 55+RG sized churchill cigars. They had no idea what they bought, but they sure looked cool.

This is your majority.

This.

[OLS]

in a 7x70 and what you have amounts to a prank, a novelty.

Haha, I just remembered when I first started smoking cigars, one of the first I ever had was
when we decided to go down to City Park and catch the very start of the Krewe of Endymion parade.
There was a tobacco shop with something like a Puros Indios Chief in a case, but WAY thicker in RG,
something like a 70/80. That cigar lasted for hours, but I am sure I was called a di(khead many times
that day that I was not aware of. (and so I've come full circle, lol)

[jluck]

I think what you mean is uncomfortable or awkward in your mouth. Like I said I don't have any trouble smoking a 6x60 or larger, it isn't like you have to be a snake and unhinge your jaw to smoke the larger RG cigars.

Yep, That's exactly what my post points. When I spend money on cigars I get what I prefer.

And yes I do occasionally eat a banana and no I don't hold it between my lips for a hour or more. I think that would be awkward and uncomfortable.:2

[ApexAZ]

Just as it gets old being thrown into the CC snob group because I smoke CCs. :rolleyes:

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't sweat it. I didn't see anyone claiming YOU were part of the "fly by night smokers"
I could care less that people think I am a CC snob. They obviously don't know me. As far as I am concerned, those peckerheads can judge me all they want.

I think you kick a lot of ass, Peter.:banger

[oooo35980]

So what I gather from this thread is that large RG cigars are replacing some old favorite small RG cigars. The reason this is happening is an influx of "Fly by Night" smokers because they are the only ones who smoke large RG cigars.

Maybe more large RG cigars are coming out because there are actually damn few good ones and manufacturers are trying to fill that gap. It could have nothing to do with people less informed trying to look cool. Of course thinking of it that way is less fun and you don't get to look down on people.

[icehog3]

So what I gather from this thread is that large RG cigars are replacing some old favorite small RG cigars. The reason this is happening is an influx of "Fly by Night" smokers because they are the only ones who smoke large RG cigars.

If you kept reading, people explained that is not what they meant, but let's turn this into a big shitfight anyway. :rolleyes:

Maybe more large RG cigars are coming out because there are actually damn few good ones and manufacturers are trying to fill that gap. It could have nothing to do with people less informed trying to look cool. Of course thinking of it that way is less fun and you don't get to look down on people.

Keep stirrin'.....

[Mr. Ed]

So, why does this also appear to be happening with CCs as well? Is this just a worldwide shift of preference to thicker cigars?

[md4958]

So, why does this also appear to be happening with CCs as well? Is this just a worldwide shift of preference to thicker cigars?

yup. owner of a Belgian LCDH told me 90%of his sales were robustos. Thin, small cigars dont sell

[Brutus2600]

yup. owner of a Belgian LCDH told me 90%of his sales were robustos. Thin, small cigars dont sell

I don't consider a robusto a large cigar at all though. Robustos are only 50 RG...

[The Poet]

If you kept reading, people explained that is not what they meant, but let's turn this into a big shitfight anyway. :rolleyes:


Keep stirrin'.....


And we're back to my original "Freud " point, about pricks. :r

[md4958]

I don't consider a robusto a large cigar at all though. Robustos are only 50 RG...

it is when the thickest reg production in the Habanos portfolio is 56rg

[jluck]

I don't consider a robusto a large cigar at all though. Robustos are only 50 RG...

I agree. My preference (see:my) is <50 RG.

I would suspect cost of manufacture is universal and global,If larger RG stuff is more cost effective and proper marketing can push the product.....Hell why not! More moola in producers pockets.

[ApexAZ]

A buddy of mine who is a newer smoker also mentioned that he gets more value and smoking time from a larger cigar. He also said he just likes the look of a huge cigar, which I understood as he felt cooler.

There's numerous reasons I'm sure. As far as there being a limited selection of large ring cigars, I'm sure that was true at some point, but there doesn't seem to be any lack of them now.

I actually like the MUWAT quite a bit. Usually I go for the vitola that tastes the best to me. I often find that those usually fall in the corona/robusto sizes, but not always. With the LP #9, I prefer the Toro. Oliva V, the Torpedo. LP Undercrown, robusto. Illusione, churchill (888). Etc, etc, etc. They have differences in taste, but I'm not sure why. I've always assumed it had to do with the differences in ratio of wrapper/binder/filler.

[Brutus2600]

it is when the thickest reg production cuban is 56rg

I'm not comparing the 50 RG to the largest production cuban though, I'm comparing it to all cigar sizes out there. The whole thing that started this thread though was being flabbergasted about 64 RG cigars, which almost has a 30% larger diameter than a 50 RG. So while yes, a robusto is on the larger end of the spectrum, it's not a "big ass" cigar like I think we were talking about in most of this thread (or at least I wasn't).

[mithrilG60]

When we have had some of the more reknowned rollers roll cigars for group buys (La China, Hamlet, Taboada), I was told that they said the thinner RG took more skill. That's all second hand though, I have never met any of them.

I've met Hamlet several times and he's told us that as a roller you start off rolling coronas and similar, then move up to larger sizes as you learn to control the blend, then move up to long skinny vitola's like lanceros, and finally if you're stupid you learn to roll shaped cigars. The later are the most difficult but also tend to pidegon hole you into shapes for the rest of your career which limits your earning potential as most factories roll different cigars throughout out the year and someone specialized on shaped cigars will either be without work or on low production for stretches whereas the rollers that do your standard corona-robusto-churchill lines have steady employment. Cuban rollers are also paid on a quote system, you receive a daily wage for x units produced. If you exceed production you get a daily bonus, the more difficult a cigar type is to roll the less likely you are to exceed quote and get your bonus.

[icehog3]

So, Geoff, basically the smaller RG are a move up from the large RG for the roller (if I read your post right).

[mithrilG60]

Sort of, I think it's

small sized medium gauge -> larger gauge -> thin gauge -> shaped/figurado

in order of increasing experience required with the shaped rollers usually having 20+ years of experience. It may be different in the non-Cuban factories.

[icehog3]

Thanks, Geoff...yeah, all the rollers I had mentioned were from Cuba.

[Whipper Snapper]

Aside from hurting the jaws and making me feel slightly uncomfortable which would make me want to dismiss large rg cigars anyway... i've noticed i've never had a large rg smoke where i thought it provided a better overall flavor profile/smoking experience. Just personal experience.

[Col. Kurtz]

... Puros Indios Chief ...


A cigar called "chief". What do you make of that :r

[Mr. Ed]

As a smoker, all you want is to know that the cigars you love, that those you value and enjoy, will be available when you want them.

If you like the smaller gauges and the cigar-making world as a whole is moving toward larger gauges, that's worrisome; when that happens to the exclusion of the vitolas you hold dear, you react like a dog who's just had his tail stepped on: you yelp and maybe try to bite something.

My first cigar, and the only size I smoked for decades, was a corona. Since I discovered ninfas, that became my favorite vitola. I will always prefer a corona, petit corona, ninfa and lancero to any other size. Over the last decade I've seen the cigars I hold dearest discontinued in favor of larger gauges.

That does tend to piss one off.

I couldn't care less what anyone else smokes; as long as it's not a Kuba-Kuba anywhere near where I'm smoking one of my cigars.

But when a pattern of larger rings displacing those I love and enjoy becomes institutionalized to the point where I can't even find my preferences anymore, then yeah—there's gonna be resentment.

That's not to say that all 55+RG are bad; certain cigars like the FFP stand out as prime examples that a larger stick can still be a good one. But fact is, cigar shops only have space for so many cigars, and my preferences are getting pushed out in favor of the large stuff.

When I was at Casa Fernandez earlier in the year, they showed a prototype 7x70 they were working on. Now, CF's blends are all ass-kickers, across the board...put that in a 7x70 and what you have amounts to a prank, a novelty.

It leaves me wondering when this cigar passion of ours became a testosterone-fueled endurance contest.

Beer bong and a clown cigar, anyone?

I generally agree, except for the yelping like a dog part.

[mithrilG60]

It leaves me wondering when this cigar passion of ours became a testosterone-fueled endurance contest.

When did The Sopranos start airing?

[Mr. Ed]

When did The Sopranos start airing?

Really? You think The Sopranos has something to do with this trend? That's interesting. It definitely was a fairly large pop culture phenomenon, but I don't know how wide its influence went. I think it also has to do with advertisers trying to play up our male "machismo".

[mithrilG60]

Really? You think The Sopranos has something to do with this trend? That's interesting. It definitely was a fairly large pop culture phenomenon, but I don't know how wide its influence went. I think it also has to do with advertisers trying to play up our male "machismo".

Male "machismo" pretty much sums up the Sopranos image in a nutshell. My comment was a tongue in cheek reference to that.

Vendors make what people will buy, that's what it boils down to. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other if some random cigar maker wants to make a 150rg cigar that requires a step-down funnel just so you can wrap your lips around it to take a puff. I'm never going to buy them, frankly I'm never going to buy cigars made by 95% of the makers mentioned in this thread, so it really doesn't matter to me.

If all of a sudden Cuba decided that it was going to discontinue all it's classic lines and sizes in favour of 55+ RG power bombs will no real flavour or dimension I might have an opinion, but I really don't see that happening. Consider me a disinterested spectator on the the sidelines of the "large ring gauge wars" going on amongst the non-Cuban rollers.

[Brooks W]

I am willing to bet that 90% or more of cigar smokers:

~have never been on a cigar forum
~have never read an online review
~have no idea what "Capa" or "Viso" are
~have no idea that the wrapper is (almost always) the most flavorful part of a cigar

etc etc..

We as the online cigar smoker community may FEEL like we are a big part of the cigar world, but I assure you, nothing is further from the truth.

[357]

I am willing to bet that 90% or more of cigar smokers:

~have never been on a cigar forum
~have never read an online review
~have no idea what "Capa" or "Viso" are
~have no idea that the wrapper is (almost always) the most flavorful part of a cigar

etc etc..

We as the online cigar smoker community may FEEL like we are a big part of the cigar world, but I assure you, nothing is further from the truth.

The fact that machine made cigars sales dwarf handmade cigar sales is proof of this.

[CRIMPS]

I am willing to bet that 90% or more of cigar smokers:

~have never been on a cigar forum
~have never read an online review
~have no idea what "Capa" or "Viso" are
~have no idea that the wrapper is (almost always) the most flavorful part of a cigar

etc etc..

We as the online cigar smoker community may FEEL like we are a big part of the cigar world, but I assure you, nothing is further from the truth.

We are merely just pawns in this sick, twisted game... :gary

[markem]

We are merely just pawns in this sick, twisted game... :gary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

[icehog3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as62Ad4EvkE

[Mr. Ed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

:r

[RWhisenand]

So I've never have a 60 RG or larger cigar but I just 'won' 3 San Cristobal Elegancia Grandiosos from CB which are 60 x 6" so after they sit in my humi for a couple weeks I'll have that experence. Anyway when I unwrapped them today, I thought of this thread! Wow they are big!


BTW I usually prefer 50 RG smokes.

[akumushi]

Male "machismo" pretty much sums up the Sopranos image in a nutshell. My comment was a tongue in cheek reference to that.

Vendors make what people will buy, that's what it boils down to. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other if some random cigar maker wants to make a 150rg cigar that requires a step-down funnel just so you can wrap your lips around it to take a puff. I'm never going to buy them, frankly I'm never going to buy cigars made by 95% of the makers mentioned in this thread, so it really doesn't matter to me.

If all of a sudden Cuba decided that it was going to discontinue all it's classic lines and sizes in favour of 55+ RG power bombs will no real flavour or dimension I might have an opinion, but I really don't see that happening. Consider me a disinterested spectator on the the sidelines of the "large ring gauge wars" going on amongst the non-Cuban rollers.

Just look at the disco lists from the last five years, then compare them to the new vitolas added during those same years and then tell me again that this hasn't already begun. :sad

[mithrilG60]

I see a change in the vitolas that would be considered outside the core range, but that section of the product line is always in flux in response to trends. The core range has stayed mostly the same, and that's really what matters. Cuba doesn't jump on trends quite like the non-Cuban makes do, not as much competition or guys trying to make their name and stand out. Like anything, this trend towards monster cigars will end and it will move back towards smaller gauges.

[Weelok]

I think big ring gauges are just the fad of the moment. Personally I get bored of a cigar about half way into a 6x60. My personal feeling is people perceive the large RG cigars as a value and reflect the state of the economy. I often see large RG cigars set down half way through.

Seeing this trend reminds me of the Nub craze about three years ago and those slew of clone fire plugs but those have almost disappeared. Cigar smokers often are looking for the "what's new cigar" on the shelves and I see the large RG cigars just being the latest trend. Next year the trend will be different IMHO

[akumushi]

I see a change in the vitolas that would be considered outside the core range, but that section of the product line is always in flux in response to trends. The core range has stayed mostly the same, and that's really what matters. Cuba doesn't jump on trends quite like the non-Cuban makes do, not as much competition or guys trying to make their name and stand out. Like anything, this trend towards monster cigars will end and it will move back towards smaller gauges.

Depends on what you consider core. 42 used to be the standard ring guage, but now the corona has been replaced by the Robusto at 50 as the standard of our era. For those who prefer ring guages 46 and below, the core of the habanos profile has been gutted. If you smoke mostly robustos, pyramides and churchills, then sure, you're fine, but many lonsdales, coronas, petit coronas and an ungodly number of lanceros and panatelas have been abandoned in favor of jawbreakers. From my vantage point, the damage is done.