The Poor Mans Behike?

[GAW]

Pete Johnson, the owner of Havana Cellars and the Tatuaje cigar brand, is starting a new company, and Cigar Insider has all the details on its flagship brand.

Called L’Atelier Imports, the new company will be headquartered in Miami, rather than Los Angeles, where Havana Cellars is based. The company plans to debut a flagship brand, also called L'Atelier, that will be rolled at My Father Cigars from all-Nicaraguan filler and binder and wrapped in Ecuadoran leaf.



The brand will be medium to full bodied, according to Johnson, and the sizes are a take on the Cohiba Behike BHK trio launched by Cuba in 2010. There will be a LAT52 (4 3/4 inches by 52 ring), LAT54 (5 5/8 by 54), and a LAT56 (6 1/2 by 56), virtually identical to the trio of sizes in the Behike line, right down to the pigtail caps. L’Atelier will sell for $8.50 to $10 and will come in boxes of 15, and boxed samplers of nine cigars with three of each size. The line will debut in August at the International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers trade show in Orlando, Florida.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/16562

[Bill86]

Those sure don't look like Behikes :lr

Ugly looking cigars. Just the coloration....

[longknocker]

Pete Johnson, the owner of Havana Cellars and the Tatuaje cigar brand, is starting a new company, and Cigar Insider has all the details on its flagship brand.

Called L’Atelier Imports, the new company will be headquartered in Miami, rather than Los Angeles, where Havana Cellars is based. The company plans to debut a flagship brand, also called L'Atelier, that will be rolled at My Father Cigars from all-Nicaraguan filler and binder and wrapped in Ecuadoran leaf.



The brand will be medium to full bodied, according to Johnson, and the sizes are a take on the Cohiba Behike BHK trio launched by Cuba in 2010. There will be a LAT52 (4 3/4 inches by 52 ring), LAT54 (5 5/8 by 54), and a LAT56 (6 1/2 by 56), virtually identical to the trio of sizes in the Behike line, right down to the pigtail caps. L’Atelier will sell for $8.50 to $10 and will come in boxes of 15, and boxed samplers of nine cigars with three of each size. The line will debut in August at the International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers trade show in Orlando, Florida.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/16562

:banger:dr:tu Thanks For The Info! I'm In!

[emopunker2004]

:banger:dr:tu Thanks For The Info! I'm In!

Tat ho!

Depending on pricing I might pick up a few :r

[EricF]

:banger:dr:tu Thanks For The Info! I'm In!

Me too!!

Tat ho!

Yes we are!!! :tu

[hammondc]

I would buy 3 or 4 of the smallest one.

[CRIMPS]

I don't smoke anything I can't pronounce.

[Ogre]

I will give them a try.

[smitty81]

sounds good!

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

What a joke. When will he stop ripping the Cubans off?

[Brandon]

Count me in for 20 boxes of each. I love any cigar whose packaging is a direct rip off of Cuban cigars!!!

[Bill86]

What a joke. When will he stop ripping the Cubans off?

Read his comments on the subject, instant hilarity. I got a good laugh.

Especially when he claimed the BHK 54 size idea was a rip off of his Cabaiguan Guapos size. Yeah I bet that was their idea when making the BHK 54 :rolleyes:

That certainly justifies how much you've stolen as well.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Count me in for 20 boxes of each. I love any cigar whose packaging is a direct rip off of Cuban cigars!!!

You'll enjoy most of Pete's cigars then:r

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Read his comments on the subject, instant hilarity. I got a good laugh.

Especially when he claimed the BHK 54 size idea was a rip off of his Cabaiguan Guapos size. Yeah I bet that was their idea when making the BHK 54 :rolleyes:

That certainly justifies how much you've stolen as well.

Yeah I read it, pretty sad. Pete can do what he wishes I guess, people eat it up....

[Bill86]

Yeah I read it, pretty sad. Pete can do what he wishes I guess, people eat it up....

I mean taste is taste, I understand people are going to smoke what they like. But Pete should have A LOT more class and decency. Do your own thing, don't just steal your way to the top. He's like the Dane Cook of the cigar world :lr (there is kind of a resemblance isn't there?)

What really got my attention was when I saw that "Tatuaje 2012 LE Book" a few months back. CLEARLY ripped off, and not from the "Cubans of old". Then I saw this and I was pretty much speechless. He refers to current Cubans being sub-par yet he has no problem copying all the new packaging. I don't think anyone would be too upset if he stole the OLD OLD school packaging as a homage once or twice. Like a retro glass jar or those old tree branch style packaging. Hell that's already been done a few times, or something similar.

But don't slam the newer CC's and then copy all of their packaging. Why would you even do that if you claim they are so inferior to Nicaraguan tobacco?

[lilcgrsmkr]

Pete Johnson, the owner of Havana Cellars and the Tatuaje cigar brand, is starting a new company, and Cigar Insider has all the details on its flagship brand.

Called L’Atelier Imports, the new company will be headquartered in Miami, rather than Los Angeles, where Havana Cellars is based. The company plans to debut a flagship brand, also called L'Atelier, that will be rolled at My Father Cigars from all-Nicaraguan filler and binder and wrapped in Ecuadoran leaf.



The brand will be medium to full bodied, according to Johnson, and the sizes are a take on the Cohiba Behike BHK trio launched by Cuba in 2010. There will be a LAT52 (4 3/4 inches by 52 ring), LAT54 (5 5/8 by 54), and a LAT56 (6 1/2 by 56), virtually identical to the trio of sizes in the Behike line, right down to the pigtail caps. L’Atelier will sell for $8.50 to $10 and will come in boxes of 15, and boxed samplers of nine cigars with three of each size. The line will debut in August at the International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers trade show in Orlando, Florida.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfe.../show/id/16562
thanks for the info gaw! :)

[688sonarmen]

If they smoke good and taste good I'll buy them. I don't see the need to attach feelings over people I don't know or objects.

[Rock Star]

interesting bro, i dont even think the real thing is all that though. hope those are better. i mean, dont get me wrong, im sure the behikes will be good sooner or later

[T.G]

I mean taste is taste, I understand people are going to smoke what they like. But Pete should have A LOT more class and decency. Do your own thing, don't just steal your way to the top. He's like the Dane Cook of the cigar world :lr (there is kind of a resemblance isn't there?)

What really got my attention was when I saw that "Tatuaje 2012 LE Book" a few months back. CLEARLY ripped off, and not from the "Cubans of old". Then I saw this and I was pretty much speechless. He refers to current Cubans being sub-par yet he has no problem copying all the new packaging. I don't think anyone would be too upset if he stole the OLD OLD school packaging as a homage once or twice. Like a retro glass jar or those old tree branch style packaging. Hell that's already been done a few times, or something similar.

But don't slam the newer CC's and then copy all of their packaging. Why would you even do that if you claim they are so inferior to Nicaraguan tobacco?


He does it just to piss you off, Bill.


It's a big conspiracy.

I'm serious, we cooked it up a few years ago down in Nicaragua over a couple bottles of La Flor de Cana 18.

[Bill86]

He does it just to piss you off, Bill.


It's a big conspiracy.

I'm serious, we cooked it up a few years ago down in Nicaragua over a couple bottles of La Flor de Cana 18.

:lr

This made me laugh hysterically. Probably the funniest thing I've read in a bit. Well done.

But no way someone buys more of that stuff after you've had one bottle :D

[Dunkel]

I can't believe that I agree with PT. Nic cigars are better than CC's all day everyday.

[CasaDooley]

So what is wrong with capitalism and free enterprise?:sh I don't smoke a lot of PJ's stuff, but, he has the right to do what he wants with his company, doesn't he?
I'll give his new line a try when they are released.:tu

[OLS]

I am always cranked off when I see anyone even tilt towards Cuba with their marketing, or use it as a reference point
for comparison. These guys are in a death struggle everyday with havana, and from what I can tell, Habanos goes out
of their way to be innovative within themselves. Granted, EVERYTHING THEY OWN, they STOLE, but since then they
have tried to stay above the fray and just focus on trying to maintain their image as the best in the world. They have
failed mightily at every turn in my opinion, their reaction to the boom was not only embarrassing, it was nearly
catastrophic. But they still keep innovating and trying to shake the money tree. EVERY OTHER MAKER outside of Cuba
uses them for ideas to steal, an anchor for all their legitimacy in the history of their companies or in the DNA of their
master blenders and torcedores. It's almost disgusting, and I try to stay away from their products as much as possible.
But again, Havana DID steal EVERYTHING. But they did not continue to steal unabashedly.
I can tolerate Fuente because no one can say they don't also do it their way, and are wildly successful because of it.
The Padrons live off the cuban mystique, but they also innovate on their own and are a dominant force because they
refuse to pander to trends. They MAKE trends. It seems like all the boutiques will steal whatever they can to try and
just get the scraps left behind by the other 2. I like a Nic cigar, but I don't like the PJ stuff, or the Drew Estates Stuff,
or the Pepin stuff or the AJ stuff......Some of the cigars make the most they can out of the tobacco, but 80% of it is all the
same to me.

By the way OP, "poor man's Behike" is a little off base....These cigars will be money or nothing. They won't be cheap.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

So what is wrong with capitalism and free enterprise?:sh I don't smoke a lot of PJ's stuff, but, he has the right to do what he wants with his company, doesn't he?
I'll give his new line a try when they are released.:tu

It's not an issue with Capitalism at all. The issue, at least for me, is the marketing and packaging he chooses to deliver his product.

[BC-Axeman]

He does it just to piss you off, Bill.


It's a big conspiracy.

I'm serious, we cooked it up a few years ago down in Nicaragua over a couple bottles of La Flor de Cana 18.
I really think he's serious. Seriously.

[maninblack]

I for one am excited. He makes a great product and is a master at marketing his product. And I tend to agree with Dunkel. NC's blow the doors off CC's. Let the debate continue.

[neoflex]

I like a Nic cigar, but I don't like the PJ stuff, or the Drew Estates Stuff, or the Pepin stuff or the AJ stuff......Some of the cigars make the most they can out of the tobacco, but 80% of it is all the
same to me..
You clearly don't like Nicaraguan tobacco as much as you claim as you basically just eliminated the best in the biz in Nicaragua. Everyone you just listed are some of the only ones doing anything worthwhile with the tobacco and is the reason why when it comes to boutiques they are the top dogs.
Is it a rip off? Yes, but I am sure if you talk to Pete there is probably some kind of joke behind it. I always laugh at how many people love to hate on his stuff and the man himself, many without even trying his stuff or ever meeting him. I can almost guarantee if you spend a little time talking to him in person your opinion would more than likely change. Just when it comes to tobacco the guy is a wealth of knowledge and probably has forgotten more than I myself would ever know. I personally will pick up a few to try. I will never rule out a stick due to marketing gimmicks. Hell if that were the case I would have never smoked a good amount of sticks I enjoy everyday. Sh*t if it weren't for marketing gimmicks I would be out of a job! Call me biased but I would take any of the brands OLS mentioned above over most Cubans anyway. I actually just had this conversation two nights ago about this topic. I said "If someone had a Tatuaje, Liga and a Monte 2 in their hand and offered me to take one for free, the Monte would be my last choice." Not that it isn't a good smoke but I personally prefer Nic. tobacco and I also know I have a 50/50 chance that the Monte will be plugged.:2
Things could be worse. Has anyone seen Casa De Montecristos claims on their copy of the Behike. They're claiming theirs even tastes the same.
http://www.topqualitycigars.com/ Should still be on the homepage but if it moves after landing on the page search for B56.

[Brandon]

If his crap is so great, how come he has to rip off the Cubans for his marketing and packaging? Why does he have to imitate such an inferior product??? He does this because his sh*t can't stand on its own. He needs the hype in order to draw attention to his product.

Oh, BTW... I think your wife is a dog. It's only a coincidence that I make my wife dress the same and wear the same makeup.

[GreekGodX]

I'm pretty sure I read a while back that all his cigars are based off his favorite Cuban sizes. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery:sh

I probably will not smoke these as I smoke almost all cc but the price doesn't seem that bad (8.50-10 bucks). Smoke what you like it doesn't matter who rolls it or where it is from.

[CasaDooley]

Is it just me, or has anybody else noticed that whenever a thread is started about Pete Johnson and his lines of cigars, it turns into a slugfest? :gary

[kuzi16]

ive met pete. i like the guy. hes a smart person who has love for nicaraguan tobacco and a love for cuban styling. im not so sure its a "rip off" as much as attempting to fit the style of cuba.
i respect what he does with tobacco. i respect his passion.
im not a fan of his cigars save for a few.

there are a ton of Tatuaje fans out there and clearly they are not on this forum, but i still fiind it a bit surprising that some here seem to have so much hate for him.
you dont like his stuff, dont buy it. plain and simple.

[CigarNut]

If his crap is so great, how come he has to rip off the Cubans for his marketing and packaging? Why does he have to imitate such an inferior product??? He does this because his sh*t can't stand on its own. He needs the hype in order to draw attention to his product.

Oh, BTW... I think your wife is a dog. It's only a coincidence that I make my wife dress the same and wear the same makeup.
Companies do this all the time with competing products. Many people when asked about cigars first think of Cuba. That makes Cuba a target.

Instead of looking at this as a bad thing you could choose to look at it as "Imitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery"...

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

I for one am excited. He makes a great product and is a master at marketing his product. And I tend to agree with Dunkel. NC's blow the doors off CC's. Let the debate continue.

He makes a great product? That's debatable, but goes back to smoke what you like, a subjective type of thing. Master of marketing? I don't think so, he steals everything he puts out from Cuba.. boxes, bands, ect.

NC's blow the doors off CC's? That's subjective also, smoke what you like. However, I will smoke what I like too, and I prefer not to smoke nasty, harsh, one dimensional spice bombs that most NC's are. I prefer the opposite:D

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

ive met pete. i like the guy. hes a smart person who has love for nicaraguan tobacco and a love for cuban styling. im not so sure its a "rip off" as much as attempting to fit the style of cuba.
i respect what he does with tobacco. i respect his passion.
im not a fan of his cigars save for a few.

there are a ton of Tatuaje fans out there and clearly they are not on this forum, but i still fiind it a bit surprising that some here seem to have so much hate for him.you dont like his stuff, dont buy it. plain and simple.

No one here is showing any hate towards Pete himself. The issues are related to how the brand is marketed and packaged.

[NeuRon]

how original pete... why dont you come up with some of your own creativity (ohwait!)

[kuzi16]

No one here is showing any hate towards Pete himself. The issues are related to how the brand is marketed and packaged.
sure looks like hate to me.
i understand not liking the cigars he puts out but saying he steals everything is clearly overboard. the monster series comes to mind with little hesitation.

just about every brand ever has taken ideas from Cuban packaging. why pick on pete?

[Stephen]

there are a ton of Tatuaje fans out there and clearly they are not on this forum
Whereas I'd counter that Pete Johnson's products are probably talked about more often on this messageboard than all the other NC sticks combined. If there are cigar messageboards out there with a higher concentration of fanbois, kindly let me know so that I may avoid them like the plague.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

sure looks like hate to me.
i understand not liking the cigars he puts out but saying he steals everything is clearly overboard. the monster series comes to mind with little hesitation.

just about every brand ever has taken ideas from Cuban packaging. why pick on pete?

I don't think you understand the difference between criticizing his BRAND and actually hating on HIM. There has been no one show any hate towards Pete himself at all. In fact, there has been zero hate at all. And is it fair to say the Monster Series is an outlier in the whole stolen packaging debate:r I'm off to smoke a FACE:r:r

[jledou]

It would be interesting to hear if Pete started the company separate to protect his other interests from lawsuit or infringement claims coming from Habanos SA on this line.

It's all a copy cat business in a lot of ways, I am glad to hear he is not going to be copying the same pricing scheme with these :)

I'll give them a try, I am about 50/50 on Pete's different cigars but I am always up for trying a new cigar at least once.

[icehog3]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke, judge not lest ye be judged.

I prefer Cubans.

[WittyUserName]

What ever happened to imitation is the most sincere form of flattery?

Also he is a business man and whatever he is doing is working. Not only do we buy his cigars we have discussion like the one above that do nothing from spread the word for new products and lead to more cigars being bought. I think he is a brilliant.

:2

[Subvet642]

Although I've only tried a few of his sticks, I've liked every one and try to always to keep them on hand. If his "copying" of things Cuban is what inspired him to make cigars in thinner ring gauges and smaller formats, then GOOD; Many other makers seem to be copying each other in the jumbo ring gauge race, and I'm not an adherent of the "Bigger is Better" philosophy.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

What ever happened to imitation is the most sincere form of flattery?

Also he is a business man and whatever he is doing is working. Not only do we buy his cigars we have discussion like the one above that do nothing from spread the word for new products and lead to more cigars being bought. I think he is a brilliant.

:2

Yeah the company is brilliant for stealing product and packaging formats from Cuba;) I think people would think of it differently if say two USA corps., CAT and Deere, were in a similar situation. Let's say Deere decides to steal Cat's colors, truck and tractor designs, ect. Would this not be ethically wrong and most certainly result in major litigation for lost profits?? That's just how I look at it I guess. And yeah I know it's Cuba, but it still doesn't make it right for someone here to steal their ideas and make money off it.

[T.G]

That sounds more like General Cigar and Altadis with their Partagas, Montecristo, Punch, RyJ and every other marque name, band and box art duplicated.

[OLS]

Neo, You are right, I do seem out of touch on the current scene using Nicaraguan tobacco.
My first taste of it was a Padron, and I think they blend it about as well as it can be blended.
Once the LFD super Ligero bombs came out 10-12 years ago, and everyone had to blend cigars
so strong and manly, the Nicaraguan cigars I have seen evolve from that impetus have
not been to my liking. I DO like Nicaraguan tobacco, but I do not like seeing it blended
with so much emphasis on power. I do not think you can do both power and flavor and
do it in good balance. Lots of companies claim to be doing just that, but not from where
I smoke. Cuban cigars, with all their faults, are the best tasting cigars on earth.

No wonder PJ rips them off so unabashedly.

[OLS]

And yeah I know it's Cuba, but it still doesn't make it right for someone here to steal their ideas and make money off it.

As much as I would like to agree with you on this, Cuba HAS no ideas. Everything they have,
they stole from people that they frightened so bad that they had to flee for their lives.
They DO have Cohiba.

YES, Behike is a Cuban innovation on a Cuban brand without claim from any competing original brand-
holder, but 90% of everything else they do every day is based on a lie. (All your brands are belong to us.)

This might sound odd coming from me who JUST said cuban cigars are the best, and I HATE WITH
WHITE HOT PASSION the current cigars from the supposed actual current owners of the original
brands, to whom which legal title to the original brands and trademarked iconography passed to.
TO ME they all taste like clones, each as mediocre as the next. There is someone here who screams
when I say it everytime, but I still believe it.

But I also still criticize PJ for his blatant intellectual property theft, although indeed imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery. So in the end, it's all just gang warfare, like congress. Polarization
based on firm belief and intransigence. Sure makes for a great thread blow-up, don't it?

[Subvet642]

That sounds more like General Cigar and Altadis with their Partagas, Montecristo, Punch, RyJ and every other marque name, band and box art duplicated.

And no one has to ask if you're talking about NC or CC Tats.

[Trent0341]

If his "copying" of things Cuban is what inspired him to make cigars in thinner ring gauges and smaller formats, then GOOD; Many other makers seem to be copying each other in the jumbo ring gauge race, and I'm not an adherent of the "Bigger is Better" philosophy.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm just not a big fan of the current 6x60 craze. I prefer petite coronas and lanceros (when I have the time).

[Cornrow_Wallis]

As much as I would like to agree with you on this, Cuba HAS no ideas. Everything they have,
they stole from people that they frightened so bad that they had to flee for their lives.
They DO have Cohiba.

YES, Behike is a Cuban innovation on a Cuban brand without claim from any competing original brand-
holder, but 90% of everything else they do every day is based on a lie. (All your brands are belong to us.)

This might sound odd coming from me who JUST said cuban cigars are the best, and I HATE WITH
WHITE HOT PASSION the current cigars from the supposed actual current owners of the original
brands, to whom which legal title to the original brands and trademarked iconography passed to.
TO ME they all taste like clones, each as mediocre as the next. There is someone here who screams
when I say it everytime, but I still believe it.

But I also still criticize PJ for his blatant intellectual property theft, although indeed imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery. So in the end, it's all just gang warfare, like congress. Polarization
based on firm belief and intransigence. Sure makes for a great thread blow-up, don't it?

Thank you.

[neoflex]

Last time I chime in here but wasn't the ring size of the Behikes something that they made to fill in a void so they can cash in on a segment that they were missing out on that the NC manufacturers created and the demand grew at an amazingly fast pace here in the U.S.? These larger ring sizes are out of the norm for Cuban marcas so it does work both ways but I do realize that in this discussion it's apples and oranges as Pete is replicating the the exact size and shape and giving each a similar name to the Behike. Just kind of pointing it out as it was brought up a couple times how the NC market is always ripping off the Cuban marcas.
OLS, you should give some of the brands you mentioned a try as most of their lines are not all about just delivering power without any other substance. Yes, they offer a large amount of fuller bodied smokes but most are not busting at the seams with power. I honestly see that segment/demand starting to fade a little bit in the NC market. Guys are looking for more substance than just a powerhouse lately Pepin(Pete, same boat), JD and AJ offer some great smokes/blends that offer great flavor and complexity.

[kuzi16]

I don't think you understand the difference between criticizing his BRAND and actually hating on HIM. There has been no one show any hate towards Pete himself at all. In fact, there has been zero hate at all. And is it fair to say the Monster Series is an outlier in the whole stolen packaging debate:r I'm off to smoke a FACE:r:rfair.

but very difficult to separate a man from his life's work.

[mosesbotbol]

Most are playing catch up with Cubans, few do something original. Cigar manufacturers are like parrots when it comes to their own products. Just about everything is a copy or compared to Havana. In terms of manufacturer and construction, many have Havana beat, but they still don’t taste like a Cuban cigar. It’s much safer copying something that is successful than taking a gamble. Someone who gambles and strikes their own niche end up in a better place.

What would be innovative would be making cigars in sizes that aren’t the norm in this market. I am sick of big ring gauge cigars. Yes, they are fun to smoke now and then, but by and large are really dull.

As for the poor man’s Behike, he should’ve exaggerated the pigtail much more than they are. It should be like a bow on a present. The wrapper shades do not look like a top end product, but I am sure they are decent smoking cigars at a minimum.

[DennisP]

What would be innovative would be making cigars in sizes that aren’t the norm in this market. I am sick of big ring gauge cigars. Yes, they are fun to smoke now and then, but by and large are really dull.


It may be innovative, but would it be good business? I definitely prefer smaller RGs and under 50, but the market is driving the products. You see this in both CC and NC.

Also, Pete has done some stuff with smaller cigars both in RG and length. The El Triunfador Lancero OR is probably my favorite NC made.

[OLS]

I alaso agree that YOU DO have to give the man credit for at least for his part keeping the narrow ring gauge
concept afloat. Cuba seems hellbent, SEEMS hell, they are hellbent to get rid of it entirely. Sometimes I think
the REASON they are ditching the small RG cigars is because they actually think that that format was responsible
for nearly bringing down the entire house after the boom. It was not the little cigars, it was the little skills in the galera.

NEO, I have to disappoint you, I ain't never goin back to the NCs. I am not a big smoker anymore and the CCs
have my full attention and all my time. I can smoke for the rest of my life "for free" and only smoke CCs. So no
more money will be spent discovering the wonderful NC cigars I am bashing without tasting, haha.

[Cornrow_Wallis]

The only thing that bugs me is the way PJ is justifying his actions. If you want to make Behike clones, just do it. It's not like he is going to be taking money out of Cuban mouths. If you know what a Behike is, you aren't going to confuse the two.

The announcement he should have made was, "Yea, I like the way they look, so I'm making my own, so what?"

[warpedcigars]

Ill be sure to test these at the show this year.

[neoflex]

I can smoke for the rest of my life "for free" and only smoke CCs. So no more money will be spent discovering the wonderful NC cigars I am bashing without tasting, haha.
Can't argue with that!:D:r

[OLS]

The only thing that bugs me is the way PJ is justifying his actions. If you want to make Behike clones, just do it. It's not like he is going to be taking money out of Cuban mouths. If you know what a Behike is, you aren't going to confuse the two.

The announcement he should have made was, "Yea, I like the way they look, so I'm making my own, so what?"

I am glad you posted this because it only JUST hit me after reading this....I think that I definitely
jumped a gun or two here...The words "the cigars are a take on Behike and BHK 52,54 and 56" are the
words of CIGAR Afishingknotto. PJ COULD have said all that, but I certainly couldn't say.
Not sure we will hear from PJ again on this thread as it has definitely gotten a little heated, but I reacted
strongly to the fact that I thought this was some kind of direct quote or verbal admission that he just felt
like copying the cigars in question. He may certainly done that, and in order to launch them he would
have certainly had to have had dozens of meetings where he described ganking their idea, but I think
a lot of times cA just says whatever they want. And cigars for some reason are all going big.

But how can he rip off the Saints logo like that and get away with it, lol?

[Don Fernando]

they can't be worse than the real behikes, overhyped and overprized smokes as they are.

[jledou]

But how can he rip off the Saints logo like that and get away with it, lol?

Do they still have a team ?????? :sl

[warpedcigars]

they can't be worse than the real behikes, overhyped and overprized smokes as they are.

Nailed it Ferdinand!

[OLS]

And not for nuttin, but look at Lew Rothman and what HE DID as SOON AS the cigars were announced.
He put out a BLOODY AWFUL "clone" of the BHK line as an Alternative bundle and actually had the balls to say
that BHK was all a big show of packaging and he was gonna put out a cigar that rivalled the BHK and do it without
ripping off the people, blablabla. NOW THAT is offensive. His version is a TIRE FIRE. ANd he used the
words BHK in his cigar name.

[Cornrow_Wallis]

I am glad you posted this because it only JUST hit me after reading this....I think that I definitely
jumped a gun or two here...The words "the cigars are a take on Behike and BHK 52,54 and 56" are the
words of CIGAR Afishingknotto. PJ COULD have said all that, but I certainly couldn't say.
Not sure we will hear from PJ again on this thread as it has definitely gotten a little heated, but I reacted
strongly to the fact that I thought this was some kind of direct quote or verbal admission that he just felt
like copying the cigars in question. He may certainly done that, and in order to launch them he would
have certainly had to have had dozens of meetings where he described ganking their idea, but I think
a lot of times cA just says whatever they want. And cigars for some reason are all going big.

But how can he rip off the Saints logo like that and get away with it, lol?

"I am only paying homage to the sizes of Behike. Why not, they already copied my Cabaiguan Guapos size (5 5/8 x 54 - with a pigtail) that has been around for far longer... "

This is what I was referring to when I said he was justifying his actions. From a comment on the original article, I am assuming that the poster was actually Pete Johnson.

[OLS]

Could be right, you likely are. I was just stopped for a minute when I remembered the Ca source.

AHH, I see, you are quoting his statements in THIS THREAD, I forgot all about those.
I was just thinking about the Ca article.
In the end it matters not to me, I have no use for his OLD products although I know there
are fans, even freaks for the stuff.

Is that a effin HOLOGRAM in that tobacco leaf? LOL....you whore.

[Bill86]

I assume then he is paying homage to the size of the behikes, paying homage to the jars, paying homage to the book releases....paying homage to the EL second band.....Lots of homage, interestingly enough he never mentions blatant theft, no because homage sounds better ;)

I should start a company called "Tat2waHey cigars by Peet Johnston". It's a homage I swear, it's not me trying to make millions blatantly ripping you off...it's a homage :)

I bet he'd sue.

The least he could do is make the cigars look better, merely presentation wise the Behikes look 10 times better at least. But he's right nic tobacco is better :rolleyes:

So why does your product look vastly inferior then? :hm

[OLS]

Holee Carp, thanks for reminding me...I need to pick up another box of BHK 52's Fernando!

[mosesbotbol]

It may be innovative, but would it be good business? I definitely prefer smaller RGs and under 50, but the market is driving the products.

In the auto business they say "there an a** for every seat". Market is also driven by what is promoted.

Connoisseurs like small ring gauge cigars. Cigar critics like small ring gauge cigars. Many B&M owner like small ring gauge cigars… All the people needed to drive a fad are all in check. What is not in check in the cigar business is forward thinking; they beat the same drum ad nauseam.

[OLS]

paying homage to the size of the behikes,
paying homage to the jars,
paying homage to the book releases....
paying homage to the EL second band.....
Lots of homage, interestingly enough he never mentions blatant theft, no because homage sounds better ;)

Haha, thanks for grounding me again, Bill. I forgot this was not only about the BHKs. :r

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

I assume then he is paying homage to the size of the behikes, paying homage to the jars, paying homage to the book releases....paying homage to the EL second band.....Lots of homage, interestingly enough he never mentions blatant theft, no because homage sounds better ;)

I should start a company called "Tat2waHey cigars by Peet Johnston". It's a homage I swear, it's not me trying to make millions blatantly ripping you off...it's a homage :)

I bet he'd sue.

The least he could do is make the cigars look better, merely presentation wise the Behikes look 10 times better at least. But he's right nic tobacco is better :rolleyes:

So why does your product look vastly inferior then? :hm

:r

[LasciviousXXX]

Meh....it's all marketing and hype. If you're talking about it and arguing about it then you are getting his brand name out there. Can't argue with the strategy behind it.

Are there some Tat's I enjoy? Sure. Am I going to go out of my way to track down every little thing he releases? No.

It's all relative to what you enjoy.

[AlohaStyle]

Master of marketing? I don't think so, he steals everything he puts out from Cuba.. boxes, bands, ect.



What do people think about the Cohiba Count Draculas? I haven't read any reviews of the Bolivar Boris. I really love the Farm Vintage 2009 Partagas where all the tobacco came from one farm. Oh wait, there aren't any cuban cigars like this... how could've Pete sold his Monsters and La Verite's then?

I can understand people having an opinion, but this "debate" is so old already... why get yourself worked up, over this of all things??? If you don't like something, why keep bringing it up over and over? Maybe express your opinion once to get it off your chest and then be done with it and live a happier life.

Everyone has an opinion so I could care less if people don't like what Pete is doing. But the simple fact is cuban cigars are illegal in the US so why not take ideas from what they are doing and recreate it in the US? If a business owner sees a good idea and knows it sells, why would they not want to do something like that for themselves?

Examples in other industries:
- Coke comes out with a new style of plastic bottle or top that sells well. Should Pepsi say "oh we better not steal Coke's idea"... hell no, they will make their own.

- Samsung develops WiFi inside their TV's. Should Sony not put WiFi in their tv's because another company already did it? Hell no.

- Mercedes develops a rear facing video camera for when driving in reverse. Should other manufacturers not install cameras because Mercedes did it first? Hell no.


So why should the cigar industry be any different? An argument could be that these are technology changes and not marketing, but I could cite many examples of marketing strategies/ideas copied as well. In the cigar industry, there really can't be many technology changes so a good portion of sales is all about the marketing and having a good blend of tobacco. Not much room to play except driving good packaging and marketing.

Like other wise men say... smoke what you like. Why let the things you don't like bother you? Just move on...

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

What do people think about the Cohiba Count Draculas? I haven't read any reviews of the Bolivar Boris. I really love the Farm Vintage 2009 Partagas where all the tobacco came from one farm. Oh wait, there aren't any cuban cigars like this... how could've Pete sold his Monsters and La Verite's then?

I can understand people having an opinion, but this "debate" is so old already... why get yourself worked up, over this of all things??? If you don't like something, why keep bringing it up over and over? Maybe express your opinion once to get it off your chest and then be done with it and live a happier life.

Everyone has an opinion so I could care less if people don't like what Pete is doing. But the simple fact is cuban cigars are illegal in the US so why not take ideas from what they are doing and recreate it in the US? If a business owner sees a good idea and knows it sells, why would they not want to do something like that for themselves?

Examples in other industries:
- Coke comes out with a new style of plastic bottle or top that sells well. Should Pepsi say "oh we better not steal Coke's idea"... hell no, they will make their own.

- Samsung develops WiFi inside their TV's. Should Sony not put WiFi in their tv's because another company already did it? Hell no.

- Mercedes develops a rear facing video camera for when driving in reverse. Should other manufacturers not install cameras because Mercedes did it first? Hell no.


So why should the cigar industry be any different? An argument could be that these are technology changes and not marketing, but I could cite many examples of marketing strategies/ideas copied as well. In the cigar industry, there really can't be many technology changes so a good portion of sales is all about the marketing and having a good blend of tobacco. Not much room to play except driving good packaging and marketing.

Like other wise men say... smoke what you like. Why let the things you don't like bother you? Just move on...

Don't forget IP laws;)

[OLS]

Ryan, you are something.

So if a metal band has a lead singer, that just gives Pete Johnson
license to just LOOK LIKE HIM? I think NOT! There are LAWS!

Take your backward ideas to the Hawaii forum.
.

.

.

:r

[Hem]

Interesting way of putting it Ryan.

[neoflex]

I know I said I was done before but I lied!:r
There is one thing we can all agree on. Pete Johnson is clearly the guy that a lot of guys love to hate. Especially here on CA. I just look at it as more sticks available for me to smoke. :D

[icehog3]

For the record, I don't hate Pete at all, and have had some Tats that I enjoyed. Not my first choice, but there's room for many, and obviously the man is doing something right.

[DaBear]

It's not an issue with Capitalism at all. The issue, at least for me, is the marketing and packaging he chooses to deliver his product.

So what you're saying is you believe the CC Cohiba to be in the right? You know, despite the fact that the current CC Cohiba brand was entirely stolen from the now Dominican Cohiba that fled during the revolution. You should be bashing most, if not all, Cuban marcas for stealing company names, sizes, and even blends from pre-revolution Cuban marcas.

All I'm saying is trying to defend CC marcas like they're something holy that can't be touched from NCs that are using similar sizes and ideas is hypocritical at best. Especially defending a company like Cohiba, which stole EVERYTHING from the pre-revolution Cohiba that still exists in the Dominican.

:2

I'll grab some of these when the come out. Will be interesting to try to say the least.

[maninblack]

I know I said I was done before but I lied!:r
There is one thing we can all agree on. Pete Johnson is clearly the guy that a lot of guys love to hate. Especially here on CA. I just look at it as more sticks available for me to smoke. :D

Amen John. I feel the same way. :D Tat Ho's United!!

[Brandon]

This country is great... everybody has rights....

You have a right to smoke cheap cigars, you have a right to smoke expensive cigars, you have a right to smoke bad blends, you have a right to smoke good blends, you have a right to beech about gimmicky cigars, you have a right to ignore gimmicky cigars, you have a right to drink chitty beer, you have a right to drink good beer, you have a right to smoke for the image, you have a right to smoke for the tastes, you have a right to post fluffer reviews, you have a right to ignore fluffer reviews, you have a right to describe your cigar with 58 adjectives, you have a right to describe your cigar with 10 adjectives.....

Just don't crap on the hood of someone's car. That might get you in trouble :D

[GAW]

Comments Pete made yesterday on another board below in quotes.12 Rounds is a good fight on any card - I judge it a draw! Really just posted this originally as a news item. Maybe we should let it rest now - along with some cigars of your choice.


"Hey guys. Long time not here. Just wanted to jumped in a talk about the new lines. The company as a whole is gonna be exactly it's name, The Workshop. We will always be experimenting. The main point is to make great cigars. The Behike thing is my way of thanking the Cubans for using my Cabaiguan Guapos size (5 5/8x54 with pig tail) which came out long before Behike 54. Cigar sizes are nothing original anymore and I'm sure you will see many other people copying the formats in the BHK line. Curious if anyone else will actually come out and say they are doing it. ???

The best part of all of this, is the production of the new bundle products. As much as I love my premium boxed cigars, I can honestly say that the bundles we are making are premiums also.

Thanks for letting me jump back in."

Pete

[icehog3]

So what you're saying is you believe the CC Cohiba to be in the right? You know, despite the fact that the current CC Cohiba brand was entirely stolen from the now Dominican Cohiba that fled during the revolution.

Cohiba is a current post-revolution brand, established in 1966.
It is classified by Habanos SA as their Global flagship brand, and has a major market share and is sold at a premium price.

The Cuban Revolution took place from 1953-1958, so I am not sure how a marca establsihed in 1966 could have been stolen from anyone in pre-revolutionary Cuba. ;)

[DaBear]

The Cuban Revolution took place from 1953-1958, so I am not sure how a marca establsihed in 1966 could have been stolen from anyone in pre-revolutionary Cuba. ;)

Sorry, herped my derp in memory there. It was RyJ who fled Cuba during the revolution. Either way, my point stands.

After Rodriguez's death in 1954 (he was 88 years old), the revolution, and the subsequent nationalization of the tobacco industry, the brand was moved to La Romana in the Dominican Republic, where production of a Romeo y Julieta cigar for the American market continues today under the direction of Altadis SA. The Cuban government nationalized the brand and still produces and distributes it worldwide as one of its top-selling global brands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_y_Julieta_%28cigar%29

H. Upmann as well:

After the revolution, Menéndez and García moved the brand first to the Canary Islands, then the Dominican Republic, where production of this brand still continues for the American market under the ownership of Altadis SA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Upmann

Montecristo, sort of:

After the Cuban Revolution and the nationalization of the cigar industry in Cuba in 1961, Menéndez and García fled to the Canary Islands where they re-established the brand, but were later forced to quit due to trademark disputes with Cubatabaco. In the mid-1970s, the operation was moved to La Romana in the Dominican Republic and released for the US market, where Cuba's rights to the brand weren't recognized due to the embargo. Menéndez, García, y Cía is now owned by Altadis SA, who controls its distribution and marketing in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montecristo_%28cigar_brand%29

[Bill86]

The Behike thing is my way of thanking the Cubans for using my Cabaiguan Guapos size (5 5/8x54 with pig tail) which came out long before Behike 54.

I really hate the way this is worded and how he keeps mentioning it. He really thinks they were sitting there in Cuba going.....

"damn we need a size for the Behike Line, we had the ideas of 52-54-56 ring gauge. We know exactly what length we want the 52 and 56 but we're just so damn puzzled as to what length to make the 54 :hm You guys all know that Cabaiguan cigar by that dude who looks like Dane Cook with tattoos? *a bunch of resounding No's fly through the room* Let's steal the Guapos size!"

They converse for a few minutes among themselves and all say "brilliant! brilliant!" Consider it stolen! Thank you Mr Tattoo dude!

:rolleyes:

I would HIGHLY doubt anyone in Cuba knew about the Cabaiguan Guapos or had it in mind when they made the Behike 54. I could be wrong but it just sounds like quite a stretch.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Exactly, Cubans are very PROUD people. That's just how their culture is. They know they have the best tobacco in the world, and they will tell you that.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

I really hate the way this is worded and how he keeps mentioning it. He really thinks they were sitting there in Cuba going.....

"damn we need a size for the Behike Line, we had the ideas of 52-54-56 ring gauge. We know exactly what length we want the 52 and 56 but we're just so damn puzzled as to what length to make the 54 :hm You guys all know that Cabaiguan cigar by that dude who looks like Dane Cook with tattoos? *a bunch of resounding No's fly through the room* Let's steal the Guapos size!"

They converse for a few minutes among themselves and all say "brilliant! brilliant!" Consider it stolen! Thank you Mr Tattoo dude!

:rolleyes:

I would HIGHLY doubt anyone in Cuba knew about the Cabaiguan Guapos or had it in mind when they made the Behike 54. I could be wrong but it just sounds like quite a stretch.

Dane Cook with tattoos:r:r

[maninblack]

Gee I think Bill has made it clear on MANY occasions that he dislikes Pete Johnson. Nothing like beating a dead horse repeatedly.

[DaBear]

Exactly, Cubans are very PROUD people. That's just how their culture is. They know they have the best tobacco in the world, and they will tell you that.

Yes, just so proud that they forcibly steal brands from their own people and then later sue the same people they just stole a brand from when said people try to re-start their brand in a different country.(see Montecristo in my above post)

The later part of your post is entirely subjective.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Yes, just so proud that they forcibly steal brands from their own people and then later sue the same people they just stole a brand from when said people try to re-start their brand in a different country.(see Montecristo in my above post)

The later part of your post is entirely subjective.

:r

[DaBear]

:r

So we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution and all the atrocities committed by both sides both before and after the Revolution? I don't see whats so funny, frankly you're just coming across as an ass(which I'm sure I am as well, no helping it, inflection can't really be recreated on the internet).

[maninblack]

I hope the mods close this up before it gets too far out of hand.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

So we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution and all the atrocities committed by both sides both before and after the Revolution? I don't see whats so funny, frankly you're just coming across as an ass(which I'm sure I am as well, no helping it, inflection can't really be recreated on the internet).

Name calling is childish (and against this forums rules);)

[icehog3]

The later part of your post is entirely subjective.

Absolutely true, just as those who are saying that CCs can't hold a candle to Nicaraguan cigars in this thread are also making subjective statements. That's the thing about tastes and preferences in cigars....they're ALL subjective. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke, (and keep it civil, Gentlemens.) :)

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

So we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution and all the atrocities committed by both sides both before and after the Revolution? I don't see whats so funny, frankly you're just coming across as an ass(which I'm sure I am as well, no helping it, inflection can't really be recreated on the internet).

I know you said "so we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution", but I can tell you I'm not, so you must be laughing by yourself.:sh

[Bill86]

Gee I think Bill has made it clear on MANY occasions that he dislikes Pete Johnson. Nothing like beating a dead horse repeatedly.

But if I liked him and posted it repeatingly in every thread it would be okay right?

Kinda funny how that goes........

[T.G]

A Bill and "Dane Cook with tattoos" bromance?

Woah...

[DaBear]

I know you said "so we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution", but I can tell you I'm not, so you must be laughing by yourself.:sh

Hence why I worded it as a question. There were a couple things I said that you could have been responding to. Since you have just ruled out the forced theft of a company by the Cuban government in 1961, you must have been laughing at either the plight of Mendez, Garcia y Cia, the rightful owners of Montecristo, or you're laughing at the fact that tastes are subjective, particularly the view that one area in which tobacco is grown is better than others.

I'm not saying you said this or calling you out on this, but the same argument that cigar tobacco grown in area A is better than in area B is the same argument used to justify the Jim Crow laws of the past.(If a mod feels I went a little too far here, feel free to remove this part of my post, no hard feelings)

[maninblack]

But if I liked him and posted it repeatingly in every thread it would be okay right?

Kinda funny how that goes........

No it wouldn't be ok. And no one does that here. Nice try though. It's just that everytime someone posts a thread about PJ and a new line he's coming out with, you pipe in with your drivel and personal attacks against him, as if you grew up with the guy and he took your lunch money in middle school. But I digress, like what you smoke, smoke what you like. This is my last post in this thread.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Hence why I worded it as a question. There were a couple things I said that you could have been responding to. Since you have just ruled out the forced theft of a company by the Cuban government in 1961, you must have been laughing at either the plight of Mendez, Garcia y Cia, the rightful owners of Montecristo, or you're laughing at the fact that tastes are subjective, particularly the view that one area in which tobacco is grown is better than others.

I'm not saying you said this or calling you out on this, but the same argument that cigar tobacco grown in area A is better than in area B is the same argument used to justify the Jim Crow laws of the past.(If a mod feels I went a little too far here, feel free to remove this part of my post, no hard feelings)

That's a horrible analogy and in bad taste. If you felt it was inappropriate, why post it? I'm sure you knew it would offend someone, and I would say you accomplished that:tu

[Ismith75]

I like Tatuaje Cigars. I like Cohibas more. Gonna give the new Tat a shot, might even smoke one of my BHK's soon. Hopefully they're both tasty :tu

[Dunkel]

This is how I feel about this thread...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrjMkeXGfGM

[smitty81]

WoW, this thread sure took off..............

[Bill86]

No it wouldn't be ok. And no one does that here. Nice try though. It's just that everytime someone posts a thread about PJ and a new line he's coming out with, you pipe in with your drivel and personal attacks against him, as if you grew up with the guy and he took your lunch money in middle school. But I digress, like what you smoke, smoke what you like. This is my last post in this thread.

Again I echo I am not the only one who is posting or thinks this way there are plenty more people. I guess since I do it more often or am I bit more vocal about it I'm the target you chose to single out, that's fine I don't care.

And it's only "piping with drivel" because what I post is "Anti-Tatuaje". Otherwise it would be awesome and cool! Notice how I don't come rushing to the defense every time you voice your opinion on NC's being better than CC's (what I smoke). I don't see why people aren't entitled to their own opinions and shouldn't be able to post them freely as long as it doesn't violate the rules.

However... I'm not talking about how the cigars taste, which is what you like. So frankly I'm not sure why you care. You act like he's your personal friend of many years and I'm taking shots at him for no reason. You don't know him anymore than I do, and I don't believe my "attacks" are on him personally at all. It's about the way he does business.

This really isn't an argument, more or less a debate.

[smitty81]

Again I echo I am not the only one who is posting or thinks this way there are plenty more people. I guess since I do it more often or am I bit more vocal about it I'm the target you chose to single out, that's fine I don't care.

And it's only "piping with drivel" because what I post is "Anti-Tatuaje". Otherwise it would be awesome and cool! Notice how I don't come rushing to the defense every time you voice your opinion on NC's being better than CC's (what I smoke). I don't see why people aren't entitled to their own opinions and shouldn't be able to post them freely as long as it doesn't violate the rules.

However... I'm not talking about how the cigars taste, which is what you like. So frankly I'm not sure why you care. You act like he's your personal friend of many years and I'm taking shots at him for no reason. You don't know him anymore than I do, and I don't believe my "attacks" are on him personally at all. It's about the way he does business.

This really isn't an argument, more or less a debate.

I agree with you Bill, everyone should be entitled to their own opinion on here, like the creator (roller) or hate him.

Liking a cigar or a brand is all preference to your own taste. Just because you love NC's doesn't mean they are the best. There is no best, it's all preference.

Some might say Tatuaje is the best, and some Might say Cohiba. It's all just based on your palate.

[DaBear]

That's a horrible analogy and in bad taste. If you felt it was inappropriate, why post it? I'm sure you knew it would offend someone, and I would say you accomplished that:tu

If I did offend someone I will offer my apologies, but it is not a horrible analogy. Not in exactly the best taste, which I will admit, but it is a legitimate analogy of the thought process. In both cases one side thinks that a particular species is better since it came from one region and act(ed) as such. I added the parenthesis at the end for if a mod felt we were going too far off the topic. In either case, this should be it for me with this thread so as not to continue derailing the thread(which, it had successfully done by page 2, before I even posted).

[pnoon]

If I did offend someone I will offer my apologies, but it is not a horrible analogy. Not in exactly the best taste, which I will admit, but it is a legitimate analogy of the thought process. In both cases one side thinks that a particular species is better since it came from one region and act(ed) as such. I added the parenthesis at the end for if a mod felt we were going too far off the topic. In either case, this should be it for me with this thread so as not to continue derailing the thread(which, it had successfully done by page 2, before I even posted).

No need to post your permission. We will act (if needed) whether permission is given or not.

[never_enough]

Ok, can everyone take a step back and just look at the picture of the cigars. Couldn't they come up with a better wrapper? Looks a little odd.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying one as long as its not another limited release. :sh

[DaBear]

Ok, can everyone take a step back and just look at the picture of the cigars. Couldn't they come up with a better wrapper? Looks a little odd.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying one as long as its not another limited release. :sh

True. I'd assume since they're just prototype cigars at this point they don't care too much about looks and are saving the better wrapper leaf for regular production.

[Ogre]

Ok, can everyone take a step back and just look at the picture of the cigars. Couldn't they come up with a better wrapper? Looks a little odd.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying one as long as its not another limited release. :sh

:tpd: My only complaint with Tat cigars is they make limited release cigars for Shop A and another line for Shop B. Just make you cigars and have them available to everyone. As for the BHK topic, who cares if its the same size as Pete's cigars. I am sure they dont taste like one another.

[neoflex]

No it wouldn't be ok. And no one does that here. Nice try though. It's just that everytime someone posts a thread about PJ and a new line he's coming out with, you pipe in with your drivel and personal attacks against him, as if you grew up with the guy and he took your lunch money in middle school. But I digress, like what you smoke, smoke what you like. This is my last post in this thread.

Every thread referring to Tatuaje or something new that Pete is doing always get's railroaded by the haters here. Hell, look at the original thread about the Mini-Monsters.(http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53849&highlight=monsters) There's a good number of stupid comments added in that add zero content to the subject and even take it off topic briefly. It's amazing how acceptable it has become here.
Still love this place but the Pete threads have just become ridiculous and it's amazing how much people love to bag on the guy. I would be curious to see if he did start posting here regularly how many guys would end up flip flopping as it's easy to bash the guy who is not around to even defend himself.:2

[bigswol2]

Every thread referring to Tatuaje or something new that Pete is doing always get's railroaded by the haters here. Hell, look at the original thread about the Mini-Monsters.(http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53849&highlight=monsters) There's a good number of stupid comments added in that add zero content to the subject and even take it off topic briefly. It's amazing how acceptable it has become here.
Still love this place but the Pete threads have just become ridiculous and it's amazing how much people love to bag on the guy. I would be curious to see if he did start posting here regularly how many guys would end up flip flopping as it's easy to bash the guy who is not around to even defend himself.:2

Amen brother!

[akumushi]

I'd love to see some blind side by sides of the real Behike and Pete's knock offs when these hit the shelves. It would probably fall along the same old preference lines of NC/CC, but it would be fun :2

[Stephen]

Every thread referring to Tatuaje or something new that Pete is doing always get's railroaded by the haters here. Hell, look at the original thread about the Mini-Monsters.(http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53849&highlight=monsters) There's a good number of stupid comments added in that add zero content to the subject
To be fair, I was pretty close in guessing the name of Pete's next endeavor:
No no, that's Tatuaje's next release, "Bukkake."
;)

[gbum]

keep it coming...
http://www.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/large_610x456_scaled/photos/chileans-watch-match-between-honduras-and-chile_358054.jpg
:r:r:r

[gbum]

Every thread referring to Tatuaje or something new that Pete is doing always get's railroaded by the haters here. Hell, look at the original thread about the Mini-Monsters.(http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53849&highlight=monsters) There's a good number of stupid comments added in that add zero content to the subject and even take it off topic briefly. It's amazing how acceptable it has become here.
Still love this place but the Pete threads have just become ridiculous and it's amazing how much people love to bag on the guy. I would be curious to see if he did start posting here regularly how many guys would end up flip flopping as it's easy to bash the guy who is not around to even defend himself.:2

but the amazing is...
each time we open the "Show your latest NC purchase Thread" (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53931) it full of tats pictures...:D:D:D

[neoflex]

but the amazing is...
each time we open the "Show your latest NC purchase Thread" (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53931) it full of tats pictures...:D:D:D

:r

[Trent0341]

but the amazing is...
each time we open the "Show your latest NC purchase Thread" (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53931) it full of tats pictures...:D:D:D

I personally love a lot of Tats. I generally don't get in the debates about PJ for the most part because it doesn't matter. Lately I've been smoking more CCs than NCs but a majority of NCs I smoke are tats. Just depends on what I'm in the mood for. I also admit to be a smoker and a collector so part of that makes Tats fun for me as well.

Bottom line it's just what I like. No need for me to debate it. I'm clearly not going to change Bill86/OLS minds on the subject nor do I care to. You won't find me on an Alec Bradley thread (are there any?) bashing them because its not worth my time or energy. Everyone keeps saying smoke what you like, like what you smoke but I get the feeling most mean smoke what I like, like what I smoke.

[OLS]

How many people that said that they had posted the last they would say on the matter have come back in?
THAT is what I find funny.
I have to say that if there was anything personal being said, that there would be a stop put to the thread.
I disagree wholeheartedly that people need to refrain from one side or the other. That's what a thread is for,
to debate something and hear both sides. We have some pretty good moderators at work here.
I would say it is a gross overstatement to say that everytime there is a Tatuaje thread that it turns into a
free-for-all. GROSS.
The threads that get the most action with his name on it are the ones that are so completely Madison Ave on
Steroids that it is hard NOT to laugh. This one simply pointed to a story about the launch and while the article
itself was pretty benign on it's face, it didn't turn into a farce until the man himself came in and said what amounted
to me as "they started it!" pointing at the Cubans. Some people here that consider themselves the voice of reason
ought to remember that being right in their own minds does not constitute some kind of best practice for all people.
That's the number one complaint I have against a large portion of society that will have to remain nameless as I have
been asked not to GO THERE....and it AIN'T politics. ;) But the day people can't express their negative opinions
on something like this is the day I will go on about my business elsewhere.

People are already scheming, haha.

You don't have to change MY MIND Trent, I could nearly care less. I will never get around to smoking them,
they might be awesome. I am fine with his marketing practices frankly. I am in TV and I stole everything
I ever did, at least that's the way I tell it. I just like to talk about anything. You want to see me on a
PARTISAN TRAIN, drop by the SEC thread in a few months. :r The CAIN guy didn't get any better treatment,
btw.....HELL, I admire anyone at the head of a boutique who can come in here and say ANYTHING in the
shark tank that is the internet. It's HARD to EVER say the right thing. There is NO WINNING. Pete tried.

I remember when Croatan and Beagleone came and got me out of my motel room in Dallas one night so we
could drink at their favorite cigar store/pub. They mentioned Pete Johnson had come by the week before and
I said, "Who is that?" They had to tell me. THAT's how little I know or care about a giant segment of the business.
I have my preferences and am not militant at all about it. I KNOW what I like and I could care less if others do too.

You know what makes me happy? When the Asylum has some threads that people are actually TALKING in.
Can you say slow summer??

[Don Fernando]

Ryan, you are something.

So if a metal band has a lead singer, that just gives Pete Johnson
license to just LOOK LIKE HIM? I think NOT! There are LAWS!

Take your backward ideas to the Hawaii forum.
.

.

.

:r

Dude, did Pete steal your girlfriend?

[Don Fernando]

Gee I think Bill has made it clear on MANY occasions that he dislikes Pete Johnson. Nothing like beating a dead horse repeatedly.

I think Pete is a player, not only he stole Brad's girlfriend but also Bill's

[Col. Kurtz]

This type of discussion is why I normally drop out of cigar forums in late August and only occasionally drop in anymore. I started avoiding the Monster hype. It was sad to see normally amicable brothers at each others electronic throats over this stuff. The show your latest purchase thread started to feel like a nah/nah/ne/boo/boo over who could get the latest and least available.

I too, could care less about what the latest Pete/Viaje/Padron/Fuente release looks like. I had my eyes opened on what the new brotherhood looks like back during the Drac days. Seems Pete fans and opponents draw divides. This is not what I thought this "Asylum" meant. Yes, I'm guilty of throwing a few stones Pete's way, but that was mainly over marketing and the division his products create. I normally smoke cigars that are not available here, but that's not to say they're superior. They are my choice. I still smoke some tats (love the Petie reserva) and NC's when I don't have the time or concentration to devote to a cigar. When I want a "good" (in my opinion only) cigar, it's cuban.

Am I a snob? Perhaps. I know what I like and seek it out. Do I advocate anything just because it's cuban? No, Cuba makes some pretty rank stuff too. For me; it's all about the brotherhood first. The rest is dried up rotting leaves hardly worth arguing over.

And yes, when I see smoke what you like and like what you smoke, that's what it really means. No exceptions. Check out my pic herfing with cowboy while he's puffing an acid and shotgunning Boone's Farm. No animosity, just a good friend I was happy to smoke with.

Just a rambling post that probably means nothing from someone a lot of you don't know.

Cheers!

[Trent0341]

How many people that said that they had posted the last they would say on the matter have come back in?
THAT is what I find funny.
I have to say that if there was anything personal being said, that there would be a stop put to the thread.
I disagree wholeheartedly that people need to refrain from one side or the other. That's what a thread is for,
to debate something and hear both sides. We have some pretty good moderators at work here.
I would say it is a gross overstatement to say that everytime there is a Tatuaje thread that it turns into a
free-for-all. GROSS.
The threads that get the most action with his name on it are the ones that are so completely Madison Ave on
Steroids that it is hard NOT to laugh. This one simply pointed to a story about the launch and while the article
itself was pretty benign on it's face, it didn't turn into a farce until the man himself came in and said what amounted
to me as "they started it!" pointing at the Cubans. Some people here that consider themselves the voice of reason
ought to remember that being right in their own minds does not constitute some kind of best practice for all people.
That's the number one complaint I have against a large portion of society that will have to remain nameless as I have
been asked not to GO THERE....and it AIN'T politics. ;) But the day people can't express their negative opinions
on something like this is the day I will go on about my business elsewhere.

People are already scheming, haha.

You don't have to change MY MIND Trent, I could nearly care less. I will never get around to smoking them,
they might be awesome. I am fine with his marketing practices frankly. I am in TV and I stole everything
I ever did, at least that's the way I tell it. I just like to talk about anything. You want to see me on a
PARTISAN TRAIN, drop by the SEC thread in a few months. :r The CAIN guy didn't get any better treatment,
btw.....HELL, I admire anyone at the head of a boutique who can come in here and say ANYTHING in the
shark tank that is the internet. It's HARD to EVER say the right thing. There is NO WINNING. Pete tried.

I remember when Croatan and Beagleone came and got me out of my motel room in Dallas one night so we
could drink at their favorite cigar store/pub. They mentioned Pete Johnson had come by the week before and
I said, "Who is that?" They had to tell me. THAT's how little I know or care about a giant segment of the business.
I have my preferences and am not militant at all about it. I KNOW what I like and I could care less if others do too.

You know what makes me happy? When the Asylum has some threads that people are actually TALKING in.
Can you say slow summer??

Not sure how much of this was directed at me. One things for sure about forums and threads like these is it's hard to tell inflection and intent. So certainly no anger on my part.

Like I said in my post I have no desire to change your mind so I'm not clear on that statement. Nor did I ever attempt to change anyone's mind. While I agree that debate and opposing views should certainly be allowed it seems like a lot of these threads get heated. Over cigars. Not something I find worth getting upset over. And for all I know no one is, even if a lot of people seem like it. Like I said intent and inflection is difficult to discern in threads like these.

[OLS]

I did not get any bad intent from you at all. I guess mine sounded aggravated too. I didn't feel singled out per se',
but I did feel lumped in with people who care about the PJ line of cigars enough to argue about it. I won't ever
smoke one unless someone gives it to me and then it might take a long time to get around to it. I just paid for a
good argument, the full half hour.

Cigar marketing from every manufacturer is SO FAR over the top with real or pretend lineage back to the old days
in Cuba. It's the only thing they think people care about. And I almost can't blame them. People are sheep and
all cigars are the same, haha. Then one thinks he is a maverick and tries NO photos of fields of green and rust,
and instead grunge and intrigue and tattoos and bikers and girls and a fu(&ing deep sea diver and a parrot.
What makes one person grab one thing and another mimic his action? I roll my eyes at all boutique figureheads
the same, trust me.