911 call that went bad.

[smitty81]

This is an interesting article. I did some googling around on this incident and it seems there are two sides of the story. Seems to me the cop needs better training.


http://gma.yahoo.com/austin-police-chief-apologizes-shooting-cisco-dog-171215070--abc-news-topstories.html

Thoughts?

[Skywalker]

:( "He was a good boy!"

[Blak Smyth]

I feel bad for the dog owner as well as the officer.

[smitty81]

I feel bad for the dog owner as well as the officer.

I don't really feel bad for the officer, this incident could have been avoided if he wasn't so gun-ho. :2

There was nothing going on at the address he was sent to. Don't understand why he had he gun drawn on the guy in the first place.

[Whee]

I think if you're not an LEO or have never been an LEO, to presume that he was "gun-ho" or poorly trained is wrong.

Respond to a 911 and be prepared for anything. Or end up shot by someone acting like nothing is wrong.:2

[smitty81]

I think if you're not an LEO or have never been an LEO, to presume that he was "gun-ho" or poorly trained is wrong.

Respond to a 911 and be prepared for anything. Or end up shot by someone acting like nothing is wrong.:2

So you just pull your gun on someone on every call you go to?

The guy never ran, resisted, hid, argued............

[never_enough]

Sucks all around.

And it makes me miss my dog, his name was Cisco.

[14holestogie]

So you just pull your gun on someone on every call you go to?

The guy never ran, resisted, hid, argued............

If you're coming into an unidentified 911 situation, absolutely. :2

[icehog3]

Like people are saying, if you have never been a cop and have no LEO training, your opinion on the cop is pretty meaningless to those of us that have.

I agree with Shane, I feel bad for them both. I am sure the officer feels like sh!t. :2

[hotreds]

tragic

[Remo]

I don't really feel bad for the officer, this incident could have been avoided if he wasn't so gun-ho. :2

There was nothing going on at the address he was sent to. Don't understand why he had he gun drawn on the guy in the first place.

Not responding to this for fear of being banned from CA.

[icehog3]

Not responding to this for fear of being banned from CA.

Just someone who knows nothing about it weighing in with their opinion, Mike.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if they know nothing about the subject, right? :rolleyes:

[pnoon]

Like people are saying, if you have never been a cop and have no LEO training, your opinion on the cop is pretty meaningless to those of us that have.
AND to many of us who haven't.
:2
Posted via Mobile Device

[smitty81]

AND to many of us who haven't.
:2
Posted via Mobile Device

To each their own. I don't like the opinions of others here as well but they are entitled to them rather I like them or not.

Water off a ducks back.

[smitty81]

Just for the record, I don't hate cops. In fact, I respect them for what they do. I just felt this could have been avoided and the situation got out of hand.

[jluck]

To each their own. I don't like the opinions of others here as well but they are entitled to them rather I like them or not.

Water off a ducks back.

Put the shovel down, Josh.

[14holestogie]

Put the shovel down, Josh.

^ this

[Remo]

To each their own. I don't like the opinions of others here as well but they are entitled to them rather I like them or not.

Water off a ducks back.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but someone's opinion should be on a topic that they at least know something about, I try only to chime in with my opinion on things that I may have some knowledge about... for instance you will never see me have an opinion on CC's as I have no knowledge of them and for me to have an opinion on them would make me look Ignorant.

[Remo]

This is an interesting article. I did some googling around on this incident and it seems there are two sides of the story. Seems to me the cop needs better training.


http://gma.yahoo.com/austin-police-chief-apologizes-shooting-cisco-dog-171215070--abc-news-topstories.html

Thoughts?

It was already answered in your original statement.

[Pseudosacred]

I'm going to go ahead and say that this cop should be fired. I mean, first of all, he was at the wrong address. It doesn't take a genius to realize the difference between a man who is breaking the law or a man that is not.

I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.

Personally, though, I have had an experiance where I was pulled over at gunpoint due to false allegations of a "breaking & entering". I told this kid that cigarettes make him look like an idiot and he got really mad (I guess, he never said anything to me) so he filed a fake police report that I broke in, stole his laptop and drove by holding it out the window. I was driving to go meet my friends and play hockey and like...400ft from the rink, a cop turns his sirens on behind me. I pulled over and the guy gets out and posts up with his gun drawn. I was scared sh**less. He figured out that it was all a lie, but I still pressed charges and got him fired. He had NO reason to pull a gun. A taser? maybe. A gun is just wrong to pull on someone who isn't belligerant.

There's my :2

[smitty81]

Put the shovel down, Josh.

I know I'm the minority here. I'm not bashing police officers as a whole but that seems to be what some people here think I am doing. Maby there is more to the story. Like I said in my first post, sounded like there was two sides to the story.

I'm from a different part of the country and if a LE pulled a gun on someone for something like this where I live, they would no longer have a job.

Because of the relaxed way of life here in my town of 2,000 compared to that of a larger town in Texas, the cop just seemed gun-ho to me because of the life style I live in.

I didn't mean to offend any LEO's by my previous comment. That was just my opinion based on the way the LEO's are around my town.

Maby to you guys that serve larger towns, this is the norm and the cop did well.

I can tell you for a fact that if this would have happened in my town it would have had a far different outcome.

If a cop pulls a gun here in or around my town, it's going to make the nightly news and newspapers.

I guess I just didn't take into account that the city this had happened in was by far larger than where I live. Using a gun everyday on calls IS probably normal for parts of Texas as it can be much more dangerous there.


Just different views from different parts of the country.

Once again, I didn't mean to offend any of the LEO's here and if I did than I sincerely apologize.

[pnoon]

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but someone's opinion should be on a topic that they at least know something about, I try only to chime in with my opinion on things that I may have some knowledge about... for instance you will never see me have an opinion on CC's as I have no knowledge of them and for me to have an opinion on them would make me look Ignorant.

Wise words.
Posted via Mobile Device

[pnoon]

Put the shovel down, Josh.
Wiser words.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Remo]

I'm going to go ahead and say that this cop should be fired. I mean, first of all, he was at the wrong address. It doesn't take a genius to realize the difference between a man who is breaking the law or a man that is not.

I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.


There's my :2

Let's look at it this way....just because some Sheep doesn't know their address or some dispatcher hears it wrong and sends it to the cop, how does the cop know he's at the wrong address? That's the one he was sent.....domestic disputes are one of the most dangerous calls an officer responds to, so the officer arrives and approaches a house where he believes a male is choking a female......violent felony.

As he approaches the house a 50 lb. dog charges from the backyard followed by a male who the officer believes has been choking a female, now the officer has to do something to protect himself from dog or male who he still thinks is a suspect, who could easily have a weapon and now the dog is impeding him from doing his job and staying safe. Just because someone has their hands up saying I didn't do anything doesn't make it so until the officer verifies what's going on, but until he can conduct an investigation he has no idea.

Again, unless you have been there and done that you can keep your :2

[Remo]

I know I'm the minority here. I'm not bashing police officers as a whole but that seems to be what some people here think I am doing. Maby there is more to the story. Like I said in my first post, sounded like there was two sides to the story.

I'm from a different part of the country and if a LE pulled a gun on someone for something like this where I live, they would no longer have a job.

Because of the relaxed way of life here in my town of 2,000 compared to that of a larger town in Texas, the cop just seemed gun-ho to me because of the life style I live in.

I didn't mean to offend any LEO's by my previous comment. That was just my opinion based on the way the LEO's are around my town.

Maby to you guys that serve larger towns, this is the norm and the cop did well.

I can tell you for a fact that if this would have happened in my town it would have had a far different outcome.

If a cop pulls a gun here in or around my town, it's going to make the nightly news and newspapers.

I guess I just didn't take into account that the city this had happened in was by far larger than where I live. Using a gun everyday on calls IS probably normal for parts of Texas as it can be much more dangerous there.


Just different views from different parts of the country.

Once again, I didn't mean to offend any of the LEO's here and if I did than I sincerely apologize.

Good explaination Josh, probably very different in your town. I bet the guys in Memphis, Chicago and LA have their firearms in their hands alot more than in their holsters.

[LostAbbott]

I think we are getting away from the real problem here. There have been too many Officer on Dog shootings all around the country lately. I think the general citizenry feel that police think shooting the dog has become an acceptable threat and or deterrent to anyone standing up for themselves or resisting the officers commands... etc....

For me here in Seattle the Police have actually shot and beat people so much that he now have the DOJ leaning over their shoulder and the citizens do not feel they are safe from the police. The Seattle area and King county has seen the highest percentage of handgun purchases and CCW permits of anywhere else precisely due to higher robberies and 0 faith in the competence of out police force.

I was not there and have no idea what actually happened, I do know that if the people feel the LEO's are over reacting and not serving the people, then the LEO's are doing something very wrong. It is very much more about perception than anything else.

[bobarian]

I'm going to go ahead and say that this cop should be fired. I mean, first of all, he was at the wrong address. It doesn't take a genius to realize the difference between a man who is breaking the law or a man that is not.

I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.

Personally, though, I have had an experiance where I was pulled over at gunpoint due to false allegations of a "breaking & entering". I told this kid that cigarettes make him look like an idiot and he got really mad (I guess, he never said anything to me) so he filed a fake police report that I broke in, stole his laptop and drove by holding it out the window. I was driving to go meet my friends and play hockey and like...400ft from the rink, a cop turns his sirens on behind me. I pulled over and the guy gets out and posts up with his gun drawn. I was scared sh**less. He figured out that it was all a lie, but I still pressed charges and got him fired. He had NO reason to pull a gun. A taser? maybe. A gun is just wrong to pull on someone who isn't belligerant.

There's my :2

Perhaps you should reread these posts. :sh

Just someone who knows nothing about it weighing in with their opinion, Mike.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if they know nothing about the subject, right? :rolleyes:

AND to many of us who haven't.
:2
Posted via Mobile Device

[bonjing]

[QUOTE=Pseudosacred;1620078
I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

[/QUOTE]

I'm not LE, but have gone through some training

I'm just commenting on this part. I've had my A** handed to me during training scenarios where a suspect was, what some would consider no longer a "threat."

[markem]

I'm just commenting on this part. I've had my A** handed to me during training scenarios where a suspect was, what some would consider no longer a "threat."

I used to be a training volunteer for a local sheriff's academy. I was very good at playing the innocent who suddenly became the threat. In almost every situation, I got the upper hand and then the training officer would say something like, "This is what happened to officer X last week on that 2am traffic stop ..."

I was excellent at "obeying commands" while edging closer. The trainees hated me, but in a good way.

[Steve]

Here's a thought, shouldn't the man have had control of his dog to start with? Where I am from, we are responsible for our dogs and as such are expected to keep them under control.

I have a 70 pound Boxer. He loves his family (pack) and therefore feels it is his duty to protect his family. If he knows you (especially if you have shared a cigar with him), and I or my wife are around, you are probably alright (If you are a good friend you may drown from his greeting, but you can always shower off later). If he does not know you and you come into his yard or near his house, he is going to let you know his displeasure. If I am not around and my wife and/or daughter is, he will be between them and you, and he will definitely define the "safe" zone around them and you would be advised to heed this zone.

That being said, when a stranger comes to the door or up to the fence if we are outside, we have him under physical control. Even when friends first come over, he is at the least under verbal control. Friends also understand that getting too close or moving towards the girls quickly will probably get his attention. If we are out on the deck and I go in for something, he will get up from wherever he is (even leaving his bone or treat) and position himself between our guests and the girls. He’s a dog; it’s what he does, what he understands, and as his owner, I/we understand that it is our responsibility to control the situation BEFORE it becomes a situation.

Reading this article, the dog comes charging out of the back yard barking. The owner may say the dog is not aggressive, but that is aggressive behavior. He may be defending his home, but that is aggressive none the less. Had the dog been contained in the back yard, he would probably still be alive. When I am working in my back yard, if I go out the gate for some reason, the dog is commanded to stay AND the gate is securely closed and latched. In my humble opinion, which along with a buck-thirty might buy you a coke, having a dog charge out the gate towards a cop who already is unsure what he is walking into would be almost as bad as meeting the cop with a gun in my hand. I am sure he feels that if only one of us is going home tonight, it’s going to be him. With that thought in mind, I am going to make sure I do not make him any more nervous than he may already be.

As far as drawing his weapon, we recently had a pair of "gentlemen" cooking up meth when the house was raided. The pair turned dogs loose on the cops who were raiding the house. I think I can understand this guy’s stance.

I will now respectfully bow out of this conversation.

[CigarNut]

We have people here posting about what went wrong here when in fact:

- They have no LEO experience
- They have no understanding of the situation
- They are making assumptions -- and we all know the value of assumptions...

Yet they are experts.

Frankly, we outsiders will never know what really happened. What we know right now is:

- The officer was at the address he was given by 911 for a serious domestic dispute
- The officer had no way of knowing that he was not at the correct address
- The officer sees a man out front rumaging in his truck
- The officer draws his gun and tells man to put his hands up
- The officer sees a 50lb dog barking and coming toward him
- The man says he told the officer not to shoot the dog
- The man did not say that he did anything to control the dog

Me, I am going to assume that officer did what he thought was right and acted accordingly. I sleep better that way.

LEO's have a really tough job. Before you complain you should try dealing with the crap that they have to take every day.

[Steve]

As far as drawing his weapon, we recently had a pair of "gentlemen" cooking up meth when the house was raided. The pair turned dogs loose on the cops who were raiding the house. I think I can understand this guy’s stance.

Just to clarify, the "guy" I was refering to was the office.

I'm out.

[smitty81]

I did start this thread and I don't mind taking the heat for it. I don't claim to be an expert by any means. In fact Michael, what you just said is right.

I think my first post in this thread was not explained well and that is my fault. I tried my best to explain myself in my last post.

I feel a lot of mixed feelings and harshness towards each other in this thread which is not what I wanted.

I can see this thread is taking a downward spiral here.

Mods, would you consider closing this thread to avoid further confrontation between members here.

[Remo]

A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.


How did I miss this?

I have dealt with some HUGE men in my time...6'6" 350 lb p!ssed off Polynesians drunk on Kava....now I don't care if they have their hands up...when they are verbally threatening to kill you, tear your head off and shove it up your @ss....you tell me if they are NOT a threat in any way.:su

[bonjing]

How did I miss this?

I have dealt with some HUGE men in my time...6'6" 350 lb p!ssed off Polynesians drunk on Kava....now I don't care if they have their hands up...when they are verbally threatening to kill you, tear your head off and shove it up your @ss....you tell me if they are NOT a threat in any way.:su

Toss the man two sets of cuffs and tell him to put them on himself! :r

[shilala]

I tend to keep my thoughts on law enforcement to myself, much like my thoughts on abortion. I don't have a vagina, and I'm not the one laying my life on the line.
Anyone who is living through either situation is far more equipped to deal with said situation than I.

Josh, you're doing fine. You explained yourself perfectly. I was from a small town, and had a number of friends and family in law enforcement. Now I'm from a big city and my nephew-in-law just became an officer.
Things are done a lot different in every place. Whatever place that is, I would never second-guess an officer. I live in a nice neighborhood and the police are absolutely awesome, some of the greatest ambassadors I've ever run into. If they show up and stick a gun in my mouth, tell me to hit the dirt, and shoot my charging dog, there will be no discussion about it.

[Pseudosacred]

How did I miss this?

I have dealt with some HUGE men in my time...6'6" 350 lb p!ssed off Polynesians drunk on Kava....now I don't care if they have their hands up...when they are verbally threatening to kill you, tear your head off and shove it up your @ss....you tell me if they are NOT a threat in any way.:su

I guess this is where my situational unawareness comes in. I would probably hold a gun to a dude like that.

But I was a 16 year old kid, crying with my hands up and he had a gun pointed at me from 2 feet away. That, in my mind, makes that cop a scum bag and I'm glad I could get him out of his position.

I have family members who are cops and they're great people. I guess my first encounter was just a really bad experiance, probably scarring me for life and making me dislike every other cop I meet.

By the way, what's kava? You mentioned someone "drunk on kava"?

[icehog3]

A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

I beg to differ.....from experience. ;)

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.



We have two 50 lbs canines here that would turn someone inside out before they could say "boo". ;)

[Zeuceone]

Happens all the time. atleast he didn't shoot himself like that lady officer.

[CigarSquid]

Interesting. Good lunch reading material.

[SMITTY66]

I think it's an unfortunate event all around...

I would also like to add that I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter what the knowledge on the subject is. Everyone (for the most part) has common sense and knows how to formulate an educated opinion on a subject. This country was founded on free speech and the right to give YOUR opinion in matters that are asked. I don't think its fair for anyone to criticize someone else's opinion.

[bobarian]

\ This country was founded on free speech and the right to give YOUR opinion in matters that are asked.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I think you need to retake high school civics. This country was in no way founded on the "right to give YOUR opinion" The Founders only restricted the Congress from passing laws against free speech. Today after 200+ years of case law the First Amendment has evolved to include many things including unlimited campaign contributions by corporations.

Furthermore this is a private forum where the First Amendment has absolutely no application. :2

[shilala]

I think it's an unfortunate event all around...

I would also like to add that I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter what the knowledge on the subject is. Everyone (for the most part) has common sense and knows how to formulate an educated opinion on a subject. This country was founded on free speech and the right to give YOUR opinion in matters that are asked. I don't think its fair for anyone to criticize someone else's opinion.
I think it's perfectly fair to criticize someone's opinion. We should educate each other, and welcome it. There's a huge pool of age, experience, and wisdon here at CA. There's no need to do it in a cruel, condescending, arrogant fashion.
As brothers, we treat each other with love and respect. It's what sets this community apart from all the other whirling cesspools of disrespect and social retardation that abound on the internet.
Josh was about a million miles off target. Some brothers were decent enough to educate him with kindness. He learned something, changed his mind a bit, and broadened his understanding.
Others treated him like sh1t. There's been a lot of that going on around here as of late and we could certainly do with a lot less, in my opinion.

[pnoon]

The key word you used is "educated". Not everyone's opinion is educated.

Critical analysis of stated opinions are the foundation of discussion and debate.

Based on your statement, aren't folks entitled to their response? Or are the only opinions that matter the ones you deem fair?
Posted via Mobile Device

[icehog3]

One can give their opinion on anything...doesn't mean it's worth listening too, though.

I could give you my opinion on molecular biology topics. I have no knowledge of the field, nor any experience, but I have the RIGHT to express my opinion. I have common sense, after all.

Molecular biologists should be more concerned with mollusks, and not harp on the harm they can do to an ecosystem.

Should a molecular biologist agree with, or even consider my opinion, as I don't have any training, experience in the field? I doubt they will. ;)

If there were rights to free speech, etc, here at the Asylum, then you could discuss politics, religion, post your favorite Cuban vendor, spew some racism or homophobia, etc. But it ain't. Just ask tobii, Nickerson, and others.

[shilala]

We can still treat each other with the love and respect deserved, no?

[icehog3]

We can still treat each other with the love and respect deserved, no?

We can. :)

[shilala]

Amen, my friend. :tu

[pnoon]

We can still treat each other with the love and respect deserved, no?
My position is that you can criticize an opinion (and not have to sugar coat it) but not criticize the person.

To grossly over-simplify:
I think it is o.k. to say "your opinion is stupid" vs. "you are stupid". Tact notwithstanding.

Having been a sports official for many years, I would tolerate "that's a bad call, ref". I would never tolerate "you're an idiot, ref"
:2
Posted via Mobile Device

[Whipper Snapper]

Mods, would you consider closing this thread to avoid further confrontation between members here.

Can we end this one on a happy note? We can treat each other with love and respect. I've no desire to see this take another turn, and I vote in favor of respecting the op's desired request. :2

[jluck]

Amen, chief. :tu

fixed! :r

[icehog3]

fixed! :r

Thanks, Sport. ;)

[smitty81]

I'm sorry I ever posted this.

[Remo]

Cookie :r

[Whipper Snapper]

I'm sorry I ever posted this.

Meh. It's a learning experience for all. I know I have made my fair share of boo-boo's and idiot posts with these guys. I think a couple of em might still like me :sh ;)

In all seriousness Josh, I have taken your apology to heart, as I'm sure others will too. Keep your head up, smoke a cigar, and maybe bomb somebody :r

[icehog3]

First post wasn't too bad. Post #4 and on was where it went South. :2

Forget it, move on, let's have a cigar.

[RGD.]

We have two 50 lbs canines here that would turn someone inside out before they could say "boo". ;)


Exactly. And this poor dog was an Australian Cattle Dog - which for those of us who have been fortunate enough to own one, they have some of if not the sharpest teeth around.

I'm sure that Cisco was just doing what is in his breeds nature and that is to put himself between his master and anything he perceives to be a threat. Aussies are not known to attack but they will stand ground - period.

I feel bad for the homeowner. I feel for the officer who at that point believed he had no other choice.

I feel worse for Cisco who isn't here now through no fault of his own.

Ron

[maninblack]

Three pages in and I'm still lost. Must be my lack of sleep catching up with me.

[kaisersozei]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii88/kaisersozei/cops-cop-babe-gun.jpg

[Bill86]

I think what often gets overlooked is the fact that stories like these are "news". Done by reporters who weren't there, don't have the facts just interpretations, and may or may not have their own agendas with what they write.

I'm not going to formulate my own opinion off that.

I feel sorry for everyone involved, both parties must be devastated. I know losing a pet is a terrible feeling I can't imagine how horrible it feels to take the life of one.

[cjhalbrooks]

Think about it when a cop is dispatched to a Disturbance they have to act as if their lives are on the line. And that is because they are. I understand why the Officer shot the dog. He was responding to a report of an aggressive male. The officer did not know if the dog was trained to be aggressive or not. I have seen NICE dogs that have just snapped. I feel bad for both the officer and the owner of the dog. But i think the person we should all be pissed at is the Ahole who was attack his Girlfriend. He is the reason that the officer was sent to the neighborhood and that the officer was on edge. This is my two sense.

[Ogre]

Think about it when a cop is dispatched to a Disturbance they have to act as if their lives are on the line. And that is because they are. I understand why the Officer shot the dog. He was responding to a report of an aggressive male. The officer did not know if the dog was trained to be aggressive or not. I have seen NICE dogs that have just snapped. I feel bad for both the officer and the owner of the dog. But i think the person we should all be pissed at is the Ahole who was attack his Girlfriend. He is the reason that the officer was sent to the neighborhood and that the officer was on edge. This is my two sense.

Well Put Brother!!!!:tu

[fencefixer]

Forget it, move on, let's have a cigar.


This ^^

This discussion is pretty much the same like talking politics which can even destroy friendships. Both sides have good points and they're trying to stand for it.. but the only thing that'll come out of it is hate which spreads like cancer. Let's not beat a dead horse, try to get along, agree to disagree and have a smoke folks. Life is too short to get upset. There is so much misery in this world already, why go out and add some to it? :tu

[icehog3]

I am going to go with the O.P.'s request here and close this up.

Smoke in good health, My Friends.