Cuban Tobacco

[Malazan]

I'm confused about something.:sl

Are there cigars made with tobacco grown in Cuba, yet rolled in another Country, and then legal for sale in America?

Say, if a company in Honduras bought Cuban Tobacco and made the cigars in Honduras, would they be considered illegal for import to the US?

Does this even happen? Or is it a moot point?

[pnoon]

I'm confused about something.:sl

Are there cigars made with tobacco grown in Cuba, yet rolled in another Country, and then legal for sale in America? No

Say, if a company in Honduras bought Cuban Tobacco and made the cigars in Honduras, would they be considered illegal for import to the US? Yes

See above

[Malazan]

So when people talk about smoking CC vs NC, they are actually cigars straight off the boat from Cuba? Not Cuban Tobacco cigars form somewhere else

[pnoon]

So when people talk about smoking CC vs NC, they are actually cigars straight off the boat from Cuba?

In a manner of speaking, yes. There are vendors of Cuban cigars all over the world.

[pnoon]

http://troll.me/images/philosoraptor/if-tomatoes-are-a-fruit-is-ketchup-considered-a-smoothie-thumb.jpg

And the point of this is what?
:confused:

[Hem]

Just a joke Pete, just a joke :)

[pnoon]

Well what started out at a somewhat serious thread about cigars has now been shat upon by useless banter.

[pnoon]

Or stupid pictures.

Exactly my point.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

So when people talk about smoking CC vs NC, they are actually cigars straight off the boat from Cuba? Not Cuban Tobacco cigars form somewhere else

All cigars rolled in Cuba are 100% cuban tobacco. Puros. Period. +1 to what Peter said as well.

[Malazan]

My Service Manager where I work has some Cuban Montecristos and Cohibas. One of the salesmen got them in the Caribbean and brought them home. The boxes say Made in Cuba. I forget that only the US has the embargo and no other country gives a crap about where the cigars come from.


So Cuban seed cigars are grown somewhere else, just using seeds taken from Cuba back in the day?

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

My Service Manager where I work has some Cuban Montecristos and Cohibas. One of the salesmen got them in the Caribbean and brought them home. The boxes say Made in Cuba. I forget that only the US has the embargo and no other country gives a crap about where the cigars come from.


So Cuban seed cigars are grown somewhere else, just using seeds taken from Cuba back in the day?

Don't forget though that the Caribbean has many fakes..

[emopunker2004]

Don't forget though that the Caribbean has many fakes..

This! Especially the Bahamas and Jamaica

[T.G]

My Service Manager where I work has some Cuban Montecristos and Cohibas. One of the salesmen got them in the Caribbean and brought them home. The boxes say Made in Cuba. I forget that only the US has the embargo and no other country gives a crap about where the cigars come from.

Never seen a legitimate box of Montes or Cohiba cigars that says "Made in Cuba".

"Hecho En Cuba" sure.

But even the counterfeits have that marked on them. The Caribbean is ripe with counterfeit cigar, so depending on where they came from they might or might not be legit.


So Cuban seed cigars are grown somewhere else, just using seeds taken from Cuba back in the day?

Or even recently. Doesn't matter. 1st generation tobacco leaves, grown from Cuban seed, in another country, are not considered Cuban in origin and therefore are only bound by whatever trade agreements exist with that country.

[Malazan]

Never seen a legitimate box of Montes or Cohiba cigars that says "Made in Cuba".

"Hecho En Cuba" sure.

But even the counterfeits have that marked on them. The Caribbean is ripe with counterfeit cigar, so depending on where they came from they might or might not be legit.



Or even recently. Doesn't matter. 1st generation tobacco leaves, grown from Cuban seed, in another country, are not considered Cuban in origin and therefore are only bound by whatever trade agreements exist with that country.

:r They do say Hecho en Cuba, I wrote Made in Cuba cause I'm a silly American:)

[Don Fernando]

All cigars rolled in Cuba are 100% cuban tobacco. Puros. Period. +1 to what Peter said as well.

Yeah, right. Thats what they want you to believe

[Reaver2145]

My Service Manager where I work has some Cuban Montecristos and Cohibas. One of the salesmen got them in the Caribbean and brought them home. The boxes say Made in Cuba. I forget that only the US has the embargo and no other country gives a crap about where the cigars come from.


So Cuban seed cigars are grown somewhere else, just using seeds taken from Cuba back in the day?


Do these Cohibas have a orange-yellow band with a non embossed chobia logo and two rows of white dots above the cohiba because they are totally legit.

Cuban seed as far as i know is exactly that cuban tobacco seeds.

[LostAbbott]

I have heard some people say with authority that it does go the other way though. That Cuba imports tobacco from other countries and then rolls it into their cigars... one gut even said it was their #1 import..... not sure if that is legit info, anyone know?
Posted via Mobile Device

[CigarNut]

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

[shilala]

Cuba is rife with tobacco. For them to import tobacco doesn't make a lot of sense, but it could happen. Tobacco crops are just like any other crops. They can have extremely bad years, or numbers of extremely bad years in a row.
Even at that, I can't see them importing anything but maybe a small amount to keep a particular blend correct. That's a very far-fetched idea, as tobaccos from other parts of the world just don't taste the same. That said, their blenders are the best in the world, true artists at what they do. If anyone could make use of another country's tobacco, it'd be them.
I could definately see them importing wrapper, being it's so tough to grow. They could easily fall short.
Despite all that, I still can't really imagine them importing any tobacco whatsoever.

[Reaver2145]

Cuba is rife with tobacco. For them to import tobacco doesn't make a lot of sense, but it could happen. Tobacco crops are just like any other crops. They can have extremely bad years, or numbers of extremely bad years in a row.
Even at that, I can't see them importing anything but maybe a small amount to keep a particular blend correct. That's a very far-fetched idea, as tobaccos from other parts of the world just don't taste the same. That said, their blenders are the best in the world, true artists at what they do. If anyone could make use of another country's tobacco, it'd be them.
I could definately see them importing wrapper, being it's so tough to grow. They could easily fall short.
Despite all that, I still can't really imagine them importing any tobacco whatsoever.

Some of there blenders are good some are just crap COUGH party E5/trinny short robusto COUGH but what you say about cuban and non cuban tobacco tasting completely different is correct and im sure we would of noticed the change in flavour if it was true.

[LostAbbott]

I would think many experienced botl's would notice as well, but with Habanos S.A. being a murkey quasi government company that recently reported completely bogus and uncheckable revenue and profit numbers it is really hard to know what they are doing or would do... I do not know enough about the making of a cigar to know if they could do it or not, and I also agree it would be a hard secret to keep...
Posted via Mobile Device

[GWN]

There are also a few companies around the world that buy Cuban tobacco and roll their own cigars. One guy is here in Toronto, though not sure if he's still in business.
I also had someone bring me back this stick from Europe. Note though, that these cigars are little like authentic Habanos:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w149/GWNJeff/DSCN2911.jpg

[shilala]

Some of there blenders are good some are just crap COUGH party E5/trinny short robusto COUGH but what you say about cuban and non cuban tobacco tasting completely different is correct and im sure we would of noticed the change in flavour if it was true.
My point about blenders didn't have anything to do with a particular cigar. Personally, I don't like Partagas across the board. That has no bearing on what they do.
Here's a for instance...
I make spaghetti sauce every year. I make it from the same vegetables from the same seed from the same soil each and every year. I use the same recipe, same tools, same everything, yet every year the sauce tastes different.
When I say different, I don't mean a little different. I mean worlds different. If I gave you a jar of sauce from 2005 and 2008, you'd think I purposely made completely different sauce.
That difference is simply from the growing seasons and how it's expressed by my vegetables.
Blenders can't allow that wide variance in any marca. From one year to another the marca has to be very close to it's mean. They deal with the same ingredient inconsistancies I do, yet they're talented enough to overcome that and produce something, year to year, that's remarkably alike.
I can appreciate that talent because I can't do the same thing with my spaghetti sauce. Not even close. And I make damn good sauce. :)

[md4958]

Do these Cohibas have a orange-yellow band with a non embossed chobia logo and two rows of white dots above the cohiba because they are totally legit..

Please dont spread this mis-information with such authority.

First of all it is impossible for somebody to tell by the band if a cigar is legitimate. If the band is wrong it is a dead give away, but I have seen some real bands on fake cigars.

Second, since October 1960 boxes are stamped "Hecho en Cuba" not Made in Cuba. If you have seen or own a box of Cohibas with this stamp they are fake.

[md4958]

My point about blenders didn't have anything to do with a particular cigar. Personally, I don't like Partagas across the board. That has no bearing on what they do.
Here's a for instance...
I make spaghetti sauce every year. I make it from the same vegetables from the same seed from the same soil each and every year. I use the same recipe, same tools, same everything, yet every year the sauce tastes different.
When I say different, I don't mean a little different. I mean worlds different. If I gave you a jar of sauce from 2005 and 2008, you'd think I purposely made completely different sauce.
That difference is simply from the growing seasons and how it's expressed by my vegetables.
Blenders can't allow that wide variance in any marca. From one year to another the marca has to be very close to it's mean. They deal with the same ingredient inconsistancies I do, yet they're talented enough to overcome that and produce something, year to year, that's remarkably alike.
I can appreciate that talent because I can't do the same thing with my spaghetti sauce. Not even close. And I make damn good sauce. :)


Excellent point Scotty. Blending is an art. Getting a marca to taste like that marc from a natural product that has variances in the growing conditions (water, temperature, etc) is no easy task. Making a BBF taste like a BBF from 2007 tobacco, and 2012 tobacco is even more difficult.

[shilala]

Excellent point Scotty. Blending is an art. Getting a marca to taste like that marc from a natural product that has variances in the growing conditions (water, temperature, etc) is no easy task. Making a BBF taste like a BBF from 2007 tobacco, and 2012 tobacco is even more difficult.
The hell of it is that there's plenty of 2007's out there for people to call them on the 2012's. They can't slip, or the shelves will stack to the roof with BBF's. Or they'll just stick an EL Band on them and crank them out at twice the buck. ;)
They really do have a "can't lose" product. Their tobacco is so remarkable and different that they can push every pound out the door.
They're only limited by the size of the growing region as to how much tobacco they can crank out.
You'd think, that after so many years, it really doesn't so much come down to the soil anymore. It's got to be about spent, at least to the point where they have to use fertilzers. Maybe not, I don't know the composition of their soil at all. Maybe that it's being volcanic in origin it breaks down very slowly and it'll remain viable for years to come. I'm sure that info isn't readily available.

[lenguamor]

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

Couldn't have said it better.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

EXACTLY. Not only that, but think about how proud Cubans are?? To them, their tobacco is perfect... And to many others:D

[Malazan]

The hell of it is that there's plenty of 2007's out there for people to call them on the 2012's. They can't slip, or the shelves will stack to the roof with BBF's. Or they'll just stick an EL Band on them and crank them out at twice the buck. ;)
They really do have a "can't lose" product. Their tobacco is so remarkable and different that they can push every pound out the door.
They're only limited by the size of the growing region as to how much tobacco they can crank out.
You'd think, that after so many years, it really doesn't so much come down to the soil anymore. It's got to be about spent, at least to the point where they have to use fertilzers. Maybe not, I don't know the composition of their soil at all. Maybe that it's being volcanic in origin it breaks down very slowly and it'll remain viable for years to come. I'm sure that info isn't readily available.


I found this:

"Cuban" Soil: Myth & Fact


Soil consists of a rock, decaying organic matter, air and airborne gases, water, microorganisms, and living roots. Soil varies with the type of vegetation, climate, and parent rock material. Soil fertility is determined in part by texture, chemical composition, water supply, and temperature. It can be maintained or improved by fertilizers or by cultivation practices, such as cover crops and crop rotation. tobacco plant
Tobacco plant at 3-4 days after emergence.


The rock matrix supports the plant physically, and allows penetration of roots through spaces between the rock particles, along with the components listed above. Going from the finest to the coarsest particle size, we have clay, sand, loam, or a combination of them, e.g., sandy loam. Tobacco prefers sandy loam. The chemical nature of the rock particles can determine the "pH"(acidity vs. alkalinity) of the soil, and often must be adjusted with applications of minerals.

The organic material that makes up the humus is important in providing the natural nutrients the plant needs. Fertilization is almost universally needed for the soil to be capable of providing all those necessary for tobacco's growth and health.

Rainwater is distilled water, but it can carry airborne dust and other particulate matter to the plants, albeit temporarily and in minute quantities. Ground water, though, can carry dissolved underground materials from distant sources to the plant's roots, helping or hindering its growth.

Air and naturally-occurring gaseous elements, e.g., chlorine, in contact with the root system can also affect the plant's well-being.

The farmer faces all these variables when he begins the planting process, when selecting the microcosm that will best suit his plants' needs. This is where the concept of "Cuban" soil fails ... Cuba has no patent on its soil. Worldwide, micro-regions have soils that are essentially identical to the soil in places in Cuba. Also, just as different brands of Cuban cigars can taste different, one can find different soils in different Cuban provinces, different farms, and even different locations on any given farm. Since soil is not uniform from place to place, how can anyone define "Cuban" soil?

The once-prime tobacco-growing regions of Cuba ... notably Vuelta Abajo, Santa Clara, Pinar del Rio, Artemisa ... underwent the most epochal change in their soil composition in 300 years of development, when the Cuban regime plowed tobacco under and grew sugar for Russia for 20 years after the Embargo. Sugar, a perennial, is avaricious in stripping nutrients from the soil, and it is estimated that these growing regions may need another 50 years to return to prime tobacco land. If Cuban soil had magical powers for plant growth, why must Spain supply the island with thousands of tons of fertilizer annually?

Few, younger smokers have any idea what damage the Marxist regime really wreaked on Cuba's tobacco industry in the 1960s and beyond. To them, the revolution and embargo are vague concepts. In addition to degrading the farmland, Castro also disbanded Cuban Land, the island's leading tobacco research institute, along with all others, and reassigned tobacco researchers and farmers to the production of sugar. Virtually none of the voluminous agricultural archives were considered valuable, and therefore discarded. Luckily, some researchers and growers had the foresight to personally retain some records. In his ongoing associations with these peer specialists, Vogel succeeded in obtaining some of those data. These records, and his decades of experience as an agronomical engineer and geneticist, enabled him to use this priceless soil analyses. Vogel now had the information he needed to replicate the optimal growing conditions for his unique bank of pre-Embargo Cuban seeds.

[pnoon]

Please dont spread this mis-information with such authority.

First of all it is impossible for somebody to tell by the band if a cigar is legitimate. If the band is wrong it is a dead give away, but I have seen some real bands on fake cigars.

Second, since October 1960 boxes are stamped "Hecho en Cuba" not Made in Cuba. If you have seen or own a box of Cohibas with this stamp they are fake.

Only sometimes, Moe. I have seen some horrible looking bands on authentic Cuban cigars. Conclusions cannot always be drawn from the band alone.

[Reaver2145]

Please dont spread this mis-information with such authority.

First of all it is impossible for somebody to tell by the band if a cigar is legitimate. If the band is wrong it is a dead give away, but I have seen some real bands on fake cigars.

Second, since October 1960 boxes are stamped "Hecho en Cuba" not Made in Cuba. If you have seen or own a box of Cohibas with this stamp they are fake.

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

Your grammar and punctuation are horrible. It's hard for anyone to read and understand your posts.

[icehog3]

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

Well, in the written word it is often harder to discern "joking", and I am sure there may be some who thought your post was serious.

[srduggins]

I thought he was serious, but then I just dismissed it as he didn't know what he was talking about. Something that I've been doing more and more lately.

[jluck]

Well, in the written word it is often harder to discern "joking", and I am sure there may be some who thought your post was serious.

X2. It is hard enough to detect sarcastic inflection in proper English. This thread has potential to have lots of good information for persons wanting to learn.
Maybe less arrogance and "comedy" and more fact. cheers.

[pnoon]

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

And the community at large will do what IT can to clarify any false information that MAY be interpreted as factual - especially to newer members.

We are fairly laid back here with very few rules. But the I'll do and say what I please approach really doesn't fly here. We are all guests here in the Asylum.

[Don Fernando]

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

In the industry it ain't a secret anymore.

For example: Alejandro Robaina's son has a huge farm in Ecuador. He doesn't produce cigars, nobody buys his tobacco but it 'strangely' disappears every year.

Another example: The MC Open series don't even taste like a real Cuban.

[md4958]

Conclusions cannot always be drawn from the band alone.

Absolutely true Pete. This is at the heart of what I was saying... but apparently I dont have a sense of humor anyway.:D

Just add the new guy to the growing list of people Ive pissed off this week :gary

:noon:

[pnoon]

Absolutely true Pete. This is at the heart of what I was saying... but apparently I dont have a sense of humor anyway.:D

Just add the new guy to the growing list of people Ive pissed off this week :gary

:noon:

No worries, Brother.
Can't wait to see you in May.

[Sam Leccia]

Truth is you'd never know.

There is zero regulation in the industry. which can be good, and bad.

it's bad in the case that any manufacturer in any country and say whatever they want on it's packaging, whether we are talking about age numbers or tobacco origin or type.

it happens more often then it doesn't. All you know is what the manufacturers want you to know. It's quite different from the liquor industry which has bi-laws and regulation. Age statements and regions are 100% legit in the liquor industry. ex. Scotch must be made in Scotland from 100% malted barley, Tequilla must be made in the tequila region of mexico from aquave etc...

The cigar industry is free game.


it's true.

[Sonic04GT]

Just a joke Pete, just a joke :)

I chuckled. Nobody should take any forum too seriously.

The good thing about forums is there should be some humor in every serious thread. If it's THAT serious, then maybe a conference call with suits and ties should exist for the discussion ;)

But, I'm not a mod, and those who are, please don't ban me. :D

[Pat1075]

Truth is you'd never know.

There is zero regulation in the industry. which can be good, and bad.

it's bad in the case that any manufacturer in any country and say whatever they want on it's packaging, whether we are talking about age numbers or tobacco origin or type.

it happens more often then it doesn't. All you know is what the manufacturers want you to know. It's quite different from the liquor industry which has bi-laws and regulation. Age statements and regions are 100% legit in the liquor industry. ex. Scotch must be made in Scotland from 100% malted barley, Tequilla must be made in the tequila region of mexico from aquave etc...
it's true.

Sam it's good to see you back.
Sam speaks the truth here. This is why there are so many cigars with claims of being "cuban when they are honduran, nicaraguan, or dominican. Or they make caims of being 12 years old.

The cigar industry is free game.

[Doctorossi]

Alejandro Robaina's son has a huge farm in Ecuador. He doesn't produce cigars, nobody buys his tobacco but it 'strangely' disappears every year.

However...

In light of the facts that

1) the Robaina family specializes in wrapper leaf

and

2) Ecuador specializes in wrapper leaf

and

3) wrapper leaf, if anything, would be the product Cuba would, logically, be most likely to have a need to import,

it would be a fair assumption that the middle Senor Robaina's mystery Ecuadorian vega is producing wrapper leaf, yes?

If that's the case, where are the Cuban cigars with wrappers that look Ecuadorian and where are the Ecuadorian-wrapper-identified cigars with wrappers that look Cuban? I've seen some of each that look vaguely like each other, but nothing I think I'd have any risk of misidentifying.

[never_enough]

I'm not educated enough to add to the topic, but I am enjoying reading about it. Its always nice to learn things.

[Zanaspus]

This conversation reminds me of an interview with Don Pepin Garcia a few years back. When asked, "If you had free access to all the world's tobacco, what would you choose to use?" He answered, "The ligero leaf and the binder would be from Nicaragua, and the rest would be cuban." Maybe someone's using the recipe? :sh

Also, do all the fake Cubans in Cuba get made with Cuban tobacco? Something to think about...