To You, What Constitutes A "Short Run" Or "Limited Edition"?

[shilala]

I'm speaking merely in terms of numbers of boxes of a particular cigar that are made, in order to get an idea of what you guys consider a "hard to find" or "rare" box.
Granted, some makers will let loose a few hundred boxes of certain cigars as they become available, creating a scarcity of that particular stick until supply catches up with demand, but what I'm after is the entire production. If that maker lets go 300 boxes here and there until he's created 3000 boxes and then that blend is discontinued, is 3000 boxes a "short run", "limited edition", or rare/htf in your mind? Does it depend on how the scarcity plays out over the release time? What if that same scarcity lasts for 10,000 or 50,000 boxes?

Personally I think that under 1000 boxes of a cigar, never to be made again, makes it rare. That's provided it's a good cigar and people are after it. Actually, I don't even care if anyone else is after it as long as I like it.
I also think that if a maker cranks out blend after blend, it takes the edge off the magical allure of a hard to find stick, a la Pete Johnson. I know he'll crank out 40 or 50 more extra special blends this year, so I'm not really missing anything, or at least that's how I feel.

I'm thinking nc's as I write, but I'd also like to hear thoughts about cc rarity, and what you all think is that special line and why.

[DaBear]

Didn't read the "boxes" part of the question, so I voted Under 20k. As far as boxes, I think under 2500 is a good number, keeps them from being available everywhere, while allowing those that keep up with all the limiteds a chance to grab some should they be interested.

[Blak Smyth]

These are my definitions, they may be way out in left field but they are what I think of when I hear these terms as a newb (just opinions):

Short Run: A cigar that is produced in small batches over and over again every so often.
Limited Edition: A cigar that is produced only once in a certain quantity for a certain purpose.
HTF: A cigar I can only find sometimes and under certain situations
Rare: A cigar I can no longer purchase through retail markets.

Edit: Once again I answered before the poll was posted, sorry!

[JenksAnejo]

Under 2500!

[Bill86]

For me I like under 5,000. The 100 or 200 box limited stuff is just ridiculous. Make enough so everyone can try them and have a shot at a box. I like how available the limited CC's are. You usually have several years to snag a box (EL's) and sometimes up to 5 years.

I just like not feeling forced to buy a box or it'll go away in a few days/months.

[emopunker2004]

For me I like under 5,000. The 100 or 200 box limited stuff is just ridiculous. Make enough so everyone can try them and have a shot at a box. I like how available the limited CC's are. You usually have several years to snag a box (EL's) and sometimes up to 5 years.

I just like not feeling forced to buy a box or it'll go away in a few days/months.

:tu

[shilala]

For me I like under 5,000. The 100 or 200 box limited stuff is just ridiculous. Make enough so everyone can try them and have a shot at a box. I like how available the limited CC's are. You usually have several years to snag a box (EL's) and sometimes up to 5 years.

I just like not feeling forced to buy a box or it'll go away in a few days/months.
I feel much like that as well, Bill.
I like when someone like Litto does an 800 box experimental that most people just don't know about or care about, and they stay around long enough for really hardcore fans to get a shot at a reasonable price.
It kinda sucks that the only way to sort the field of "real fans" is to make the price insane in the case of cc's. With Litto stuff, he'll bump the whole batch out to one retailer who will sit on it as long as it takes. It kind of stays hidden, so it lasts awhile.
I suppose the cc EL's are much like that, they get hidden until years later if someone really looks hard.

[BlindedByScience]

These are my definitions, they may be way out in left field but they are what I think of when I hear these terms as a newb (just opinions):

Short Run: A cigar that is produced in small batches over and over again every so often.
Limited Edition: A cigar that is produced only once in a certain quantity for a certain purpose.
HTF: A cigar I can only find sometimes and under certain situations
Rare: A cigar I can no longer purchase through retail markets.

Edit: Once again I answered before the poll was posted, sorry!

Nice....I agree.

[cigarmonkel]

No cake in this poll?

[bobarian]

No cake in this poll?

Silly boy! That would make this thread relevant. :sh

Tomorrow, I think we need a poll on cigar sizes and names. :tf

[Skywalker]

Silly boy! That would make this thread relevant. :sh

Tomorrow, I think we need a poll on cigar sizes and names. :tf

:r:r:r

[cigarmonkel]

Sorry to thread jack but I do find it very interesting on how the size of the cigar can play into the taste!

Anyways back on point! I have a love hate relationship with limited editions... only if they are good though.

[kelmac07]

As long as I enjoy it...it's special. :D

But for HTF/Rare/LE/Buy it now or you'll never see it again = anything under 1000 boxes.

[NCRadioMan]

Are we talking 10ct, 20ct or 25 count boxes? Or special releases that have an odd number like 13 or 15?

Obviously, 5000 10 ct. is more rare than 5000 20ct boxes.

I would rather look at it in terms of total cigars made. To me, that number is 50,000 and under.

[Jonathan Drew]

This is one of the greatest Threads/polls of ALL time. Seriously curious as to how this is answered and see peoples opinions.

Best,
JD

[TJtorpedo]

I answered 200 boxes in the poll, but that was before I read the responses, and I can see the valid points made which would probably make me answer again at 1000 boxes (assuming 20 per box). I think that makes it a nice LE stick that hangs around for a while and lets everyone try them without rushing out and having to troll the internet for them.

The immediate thing that came to mind when I first read the post was the Viaje WLPs and his various seasonals, which are almost impossible to find even at the time they are released. But I guess those would be more considered a oneoff?

[mmblz]

where's the "because they said so" option?

or the "it's ridiculously good but i have trouble finding it option" which is what i would actually vote for.

seriously, i have no clue how many boxes are produced of any cigar i ever buy.

[44stampede]

These are my definitions, they may be way out in left field but they are what I think of when I hear these terms as a newb (just opinions):

Short Run: A cigar that is produced in small batches over and over again every so often.
Limited Edition: A cigar that is produced only once in a certain quantity for a certain purpose.
HTF: A cigar I can only find sometimes and under certain situations
Rare: A cigar I can no longer purchase through retail markets.

Edit: Once again I answered before the poll was posted, sorry!
This is a very good summary.

Numbers wise I have to say somewhere that it is relatively difficult to get a hold of one but not impossible. What number that is I have no idea. I wouldn't even know where to start guessing how many premium cigar smoker there are out there for this kind of market.

[shilala]

This is a very good summary.

Numbers wise I have to say somewhere that it is relatively difficult to get a hold of one but not impossible. What number that is I have no idea. I wouldn't even know where to start guessing how many premium cigar smoker there are out there for this kind of market.

That's a big part of what I was wondering.
I'd think the industry has crunched the demographic to death and has a good idea how many smokers of premium cigars there are, and where the line is on how much to produce to create and maintain enough fervor to make stuff jump off the shelves.
Being that there's not a lot of cohesion between makers like Fuente, Pete, J. Drew, etc., those numbers are probably either sought after or highly guarded.
Pete's a master at this, and whoever makes Viaje stuff seems to be on the ball. Johnathan seems to be doing well, but that might be because he's an upstart in this niche and he's really busting his ass to put out a perfect product, slowing production. (which is awesome, Jon.)
Fuente's seemed to have a lock on this forever with Anejo and Opus, but the last year or two the shelves always seem to be full of both, and they're cranking out new vitolas to try to shore up the balance they screwed up by flooding the market.
Or else their market share is slipping a bit with so many highly regarded blends hitting the shelves the last couple years?
Those are just my thoughts on this stuff, or the feel I get from watching. That's why I like to hear what you guys think. :tu

[sevans105]

I voted 2500. I think there's a difference between the 1 off
productions some cigar makers do for a specific store... 4 example Viaje just did a 1 store production of Samurai Platino for Burn Cigars here. I wouldn't count that in the limited edition category. 4 me a limited edition has a small but wide release. Your store may only be able to get 1 or 2 boxes. JD did something similar with the feral flying pigs. Obviously it's better if it's a really good cigar, but simple fact that they are relatively tough to get adds to the "specialness" of it. If I could get the FFP's all the time, everywhere, I'd probably smoke more of them but I wouldn't consider them necessarily special.

Just my 2¢

[Reaver2145]

Under 5000 but thats just wishful thinking as in reality its make as many as you can and double/triple the price.

[Zanaspus]

It's really cigar dependent IMHO. For all I know the 10,000 different Viajes released each year or the monster series, They're gone inside of a month, so however many they released is too few, and I won't lose sleep over them. Whereas, special Padrons, EP Carillo, etc. could release 2500 boxes, but these are easily available for a period of time, so I don't get annoyed with them.

So, I guess my answer is a selfish, pragmatic one. If I find them annoying, it's too few. If I don't, it's not. :D

[Skywalker]

If I can't get one (stick), it's probably a Short Run or Limited Edition!:rolleyes:

[shilala]

If I find them annoying, it's too few. If I don't, it's not. :D
Perfect answer. :lr

[W.B.]

My .02, let the amount of box's be determined by how much tobacco they have for the project. I would rather the company make a consistent and an outstanding cigar to create appeal, rather than a marketing hook like fancy packaging, one size only, dubbing it L.E. or whatever. Don't get me wrong I like all that art and glitz, but first things first. For me, limited availability just isn't what draws me in.

[Winstonshumidor]

These are my definitions, they may be way out in left field but they are what I think of when I hear these terms as a newb (just opinions):

Short Run: A cigar that is produced in small batches over and over again every so often.
Limited Edition: A cigar that is produced only once in a certain quantity for a certain purpose.
HTF: A cigar I can only find sometimes and under certain situations
Rare: A cigar I can no longer purchase through retail markets.

Edit: Once again I answered before the poll was posted, sorry!

I agree with that.