My barking dog

[Big Maduro]

I have a 5 year old German Shepherd. She was a rescue dog. She will bark at everything......everything. People walking donw the street, cars, other animals...the clouds. I have let her down by not trying to work harder on this before. She is so intense,that she will not respond to anything. I'm thinking of one of those bark collars,that vibrate and has ultrsound. Has anyone ever tried these? They cost a lot of money and I hate to spend the cash if they don't work. Mike

[Zeuceone]

A shock bark collar might fix her.

[sikk50]

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk215/sikk50/9d8e4fe3.jpg
You have to ascert dominence.

[Zeuceone]

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk215/sikk50/9d8e4fe3.jpg
You have to ascert dominence.

:r

[Poronico]

Before dropping any money try vinegar and water in a spray bottle. Aim for nose and face when she barks and be fast ad consistant so she knows its the barking she is being punished for. Worked with my lab...

[bowhnter]

The Dog Whisperer (http://www.cesarsway.com/channel/dog-whisperer-tv)

It will give you the idea....

[Newbie_nick]

I've struggled with dogs that I've had in the past, but I've never wanted to discourage the dog from barking completely because I WANT him to bark when somebody is at the door or otherwise trying to get into the house. I'm not sure how to train against the "bark at everything" behavior and enforce the "person at the door" behavior.

Sorry...no help here, but I would love to hear somebody that has a lot experience training dogs weigh in on this!

[fencefixer]

You need to fix the problem and not treat the symptoms. Is it possible you don't spend enough activity time with your dog? You need to redirect the behavior.. your dog seems to have way too much energy and seems anxious.

[cjhalbrooks]

You need to fix the problem and not treat the symptoms. Is it possible you don't spend enough activity time with your dog? You need to redirect the behavior.. your dog seems to have way too much energy and seems anxious.

i do not agree with this. I had a beagle that would run around for hours. I mean hours, i took the dog for walks, i would let the dog run around for hours and i would play with the dog. But nothing helped with the barking or the miss behaving. First we tried the noise controller (put out a high pitch sound that the dog hates) this didn't work my dog figured out that she could get it to stop if she ran far enough away. We tried the shock collar and that worked. We would give her a short shock when she was barking or running away. It worked for the most part. BUT remember you will never change your dog spirit.

[fencefixer]

i do not agree with this. I had a beagle that would run around for hours. I mean hours, i took the dog for walks, i would let the dog run around for hours and i would play with the dog. But nothing helped with the barking or the miss behaving. First we tried the noise controller (put out a high pitch sound that the dog hates) this didn't work my dog figured out that she could get it to stop if she ran far enough away. We tried the shock collar and that worked. We would give her a short shock when she was barking or running away. It worked for the most part. BUT remember you will never change your dog spirit.

The dog is not misbehaving, you need to redirect the behavior.. just because you walk your dog or play for hours doesn't mean the barking will magically stop. Your dog doesn't speak English so you need to train your dog by working with him. Usually such "bad behaviors" develop out of boredom and it's the only thing the dog knows so he continues doing it.

Negative reinforcement is a bad thing with animals.. and that's exactly what a shock collar does. I'll try to write something up later.

Big Maduro, where in OH are you? We foster, rescue and rehabilitate for SPA and Dogworks.

[dave]

I successfully used shocking bark collars for years with a terrier. I was a little concerned at first about whether it was humane so I made sure to shock myself with it before ever putting it on the dog. Little painful, but very brief and more startling than anything - even when you know it is coming. Supposedly, you can train a dog to eventually not bark even without it, but I never got to that point. I just used it every time I let him outside in the fenced backyard. He wasn't nearly as bad when on a leash, so I only used it when he was out by himself. It was years ago, but I don't think the collar was more than about 30-35 and replacement batteries ran a couple bucks. It was a great investment for me....and for my relationship with my neighbors.

[irratebass]

This is why I always had Basenjis....orderless/barlkess African dogs.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-YBKgy9cU81c9vGVw2d0Xn4Q2xcfcMuFR2Bkk4QgcAEo-exgU

[Newbie_nick]

The dog is not misbehaving, you need to redirect the behavior.. just because you walk your dog or play for hours doesn't mean the barking will magically stop. Your dog doesn't speak English so you need to train your dog by working with him. Usually such "bad behaviors" develop out of boredom and it's the only thing the dog knows so he continues doing it.

Negative reinforcement is a bad thing with animals.. and that's exactly what a shock collar does. I'll try to write something up later.

Big Maduro, where in OH are you? We foster, rescue and rehabilitate for SPA and Dogworks.

DC, I like the positive reinforcement route. I can understand how you could get the dog to bark when you WANT him to bark (i.e. someone at the door) by using positive reinforcement, but how do you get bad behavior (i.e. barking at nothing) to stop by using positive reinforcement.

Very curious...thanks for the info!
Nick

[smitty81]

I have had one, they work good.

At first, the dog might bark a couple times before he decides that the outcome isnt worth barking.............

Worked good for me. Just be prepared for whining because if they cant bark, they may whine because they are excited.

[smitty81]

DC, I like the positive reinforcement route. I can understand how you could get the dog to bark when you WANT him to bark (i.e. someone at the door) by using positive reinforcement, but how do you get bad behavior (i.e. barking at nothing) to stop by using positive reinforcement.

Very curious...thanks for the info!
Nick

Many will probably disagree with me here.........

I have had great luck with SHOCK collars. You can control when they get nipped. If they are barking when they shouldnt be, give them a little nip. After a little while, they will get the idea. It could take up to a year of training like this before they figure out when they can and can't bark.

I have had great luck training like this and after a few months with some dogs, they stopped the bad behavior (some may take longer). I don't feel shock collars are bad or cruel unless you use them that way. It allows them to learn what they are or are not suppost to do. It's not like your hitting them with 220V .:2

[LostAbbott]

The dog is not misbehaving, you need to redirect the behavior.. just because you walk your dog or play for hours doesn't mean the barking will magically stop. Your dog doesn't speak English so you need to train your dog by working with him. Usually such "bad behaviors" develop out of boredom and it's the only thing the dog knows so he continues doing it.

Negative reinforcement is a bad thing with animals.. and that's exactly what a shock collar does. I'll try to write something up later.

Big Maduro, where in OH are you? We foster, rescue and rehabilitate for SPA and Dogworks.

This Guy knows what he is talking about. All a shock collar is going to do is cover-up the problem. The best way to get a dog to stop barking is to train him to bark on command. That way you can easily train him to stop, and praise him when he does bark. The dog will figure out when it is ok to bark and when it is not. Do a Google search on training to bark and you will find a lot of great information on how to start.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Big Maduro]

I'm in Columbus. The lady we got this dog from kept her crated a lot of the time it sounds like. I've tried some different training techniques, like going out the door and knocking while my son commands her to sit and "quiet" I've tried getting between her and the fence with my body like the dog whisperer. Shake cans and others. I play with her a lot. She loves fetch and would almost rather do that than eat. When someone wlks down the ally,she charges the fence and goes nuts. I appreciate all the help.

[LigaPrivadaT84]

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2011/06/dont-tase-me-bro.jpg

[LigaPrivadaT84]

Be careful with those shock collars; they can malfunction when wet and continuously shock your loved animal and cause tremendous suffering especially if unattended for longer periods of time. This has happened to one of my best friends dogs in the rain; they were crying for half a day before I realized why and intervened. After removing the devices, noticed the spot where the contacts touched her animals were scarred and had all the hair burned off. Hated these types of products ever since - there are much better ways to teach an animal than electrocution.

[fencefixer]

Alright so from what I'm gathering, Big Maduro, is that your dog seems to run the household (aka he's the Alpha) with behavior that in your lifestyle is unacceptable. Believe it or not, he thinks he runs the show, he's the boss, he's responsible for everything but that's because you're unknowingly letting him. ;) That's okay, 3/4 of dog owners seem to make that mistake.

With that said, I have a few questions and this starts with basics. Does your dog show food aggression? What is the feeding routine for your dog - do you feed him at certain times or is the dish always full? Do you play with him when he brings you a toy? When you walk him, who takes the first step into and out of the house? Also regarding walking - is there slack in the leash and how far is the distance from your hand where you hold it to the end of the leash? Does he walk next to, behind, or in front of you while walking and does he constantly switch sides? Do you also know and understand the instincts of the particular breed of dog you have?

Dog training and assessment is kinda hard to do over the internet lol but we'll see what we can do! :tu

Regarding the shock collars - I've seen many of them malfunction but even if they were 100% working without faults in no way am I saying they're cruel or anything, yeah it's a little shock but what I was trying to say is that the collar only inflicts fear and just covers up the problem you're having.. which can totally destroy the dog's personality. I'll compare it with a child so you understand.. keep telling a child when they make a mistake "YOU SUCK" or "You're worthless!" instead of redirecting and helping.. yes that child will eventually stop making that mistake but you know what, that kid will grow up to be a very insecure person and will not easily trust people anymore. To each their own, if a shock collar works for you, all power to you! :tu

[smitty81]

Alright so from what I'm gathering, Big Maduro, is that your dog seems to run the household (aka he's the Alpha) with behavior that in your lifestyle is unacceptable. Believe it or not, he thinks he runs the show, he's the boss, he's responsible for everything but that's because you're unknowingly letting him. ;) That's okay, 3/4 of dog owners seem to make that mistake.

With that said, I have a few questions and this starts with basics. Does your dog show food aggression? What is the feeding routine for your dog - do you feed him at certain times or is the dish always full? Do you play with him when he brings you a toy? When you walk him, who takes the first step into and out of the house? Also regarding walking - is there slack in the leash and how far is the distance from your hand where you hold it to the end of the leash? Does he walk next to, behind, or in front of you while walking and does he constantly switch sides? Do you also know and understand the instincts of the particular breed of dog you have?

Dog training and assessment is kinda hard to do over the internet lol but we'll see what we can do! :tu

Regarding the shock collars - I've seen many of them malfunction but even if they were 100% working without faults in no way am I saying they're cruel or anything, yeah it's a little shock but what I was trying to say is that the collar only inflicts fear and just covers up the problem you're having.. which can totally destroy the dog's personality. I'll compare it with a child so you understand.. keep telling a child when they make a mistake "YOU SUCK" or "You're worthless!" instead of redirecting and helping.. yes that child will eventually stop making that mistake but you know what, that kid will grow up to be a very insecure person and will not easily trust people anymore. To each their own, if a shock collar works for you, all power to you! :tu

delete

[fencefixer]

Smitty, I got spanked too but only when I really messed something up.

However, I recall little things like when I was 6 years old and my dad and I went shooting. He taught me how to load a magazine properly, of course it took me a few tries but instead of beating me up because I couldn't figure it out and do it right, he took 2 minutes out of his life to teach me how to do it and praised me when I got it. :tu Same goes with firearm safety, he kept correcting and motivating me instead of beating my ass on every mistake. I do the same with my kids today:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/405742_2623195294034_1079780183_2698173_62495429_n .jpg

My 6 year old with a .22 using ironsights at 30 yards.


Unfortunately you're missing the point. The name calling is not physical but mental. Beatings are easy to take, mental damage, not visible to the naked eye, lasts a lifetime and changes you. Keep in mind that this is my personal opinion and everyone's entitled to do what they think is right. :tu:2
Animals 99% of the time don't become physical with each other on a day by day basis, they behave to each other with attitude (mental = emotions).

[fencefixer]

Well it looks like you deleted your response for some reason. ;) It wasn't offensive or anything in my opinion.

[smitty81]

Well it looks like you deleted your response for some reason. ;) It wasn't offensive or anything in my opinion.

No, I just get a little to into stuff sometimes. Im not looking to start an arguement but I seen it turning into one so I just deleted it.

[Big Maduro]

I have read some of what you talk about with the alpha dog sydrome. She doesn't have any food aggresion. We feed her twice a day. When I walk her she is a puller ( I want to go my way type) She will sit, lay on command. She has never had any social interaction with animals or people. I was planning on taking to public parks in short outings to try to get her use to others. The collar I originally asked about was the type that gives a tonal alert to redirect attention, followed by a vibration. I don't like electric shock either.I appreciate the input. Mike

[LostAbbott]

Mike-

Fencefixer is right on from what we have heard from you in this thread. I have an extremely head strong alpha dog and I got him at 8weeks old knowing he was the "smart" alpha. He needed a solid two years of training from me to get where he is and even now he like to try and push here and there whenever he can. You have your work cut out for you but if you use every interaction with your dog as a training instance and think of it that way you will end up with the best dog you have ever had.
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[RGD.]

I've had dogs all my life and there was only one that I barely won half the battles with his entire life. That would be my stubborn stupid beagle (and I say that with affection) whom we lost last year -16 years old. He suffered his whole life from separation anxiety. And he was scared sh*tless of non-family members.

And when young would seemingly bark non-stop when left alone in the house. Any house noise, shadows, vehicle noise, etc would cause an outburst. I eventually turned to a shock collar reluctantly. And it worked - but here were my rules:

01. No automatic shocks.
02. Used for training only - not worn full time.
03. Only used with the command "no".
04. Nobody used the collar except for me.

My purpose was never to have him stop barking totally - only to learn to stop barking when given the "no" command. I very rarely if ever discouraged outside barking - only when he would stand in one place barking at something that nobody else could see. He learned to stop barking at shadows, house noise and vehicles in the street. He knew he could get in one or two barks at the door bell, strangers to him in the house, etc. and then he would shut up.
Once he got the idea - praise was used and the collar discarded.

So - you can say that I don't mind the use of collars with a specific set of rules in place. I'm not a fan of them when used automatically.

I do agree with DC's direction. A trained dog is a happy dog.


Ron

[tsolomon]

I have to agree with fencefixer on the leadership issue and a shock collar does nothing to promote you as pack leader. I also think that positive reinforcement is the best training method, but along with positive marker for good behavior you need a negative marker to discourage bad behavior. My wife refers to it as having tools in your toolbox, which is what dog training is all about. My best suggestion to to find your local dog training club and take your dog for some basic obedience lessons. This will help with socialization and get you some help with how to work with your dog. If the club does a lot of obedience trials, I can pretty much guarantee that there will be some trainers and German Sheperd owners there who can help you.

When training puppies or new dogs, we try to set the dogs up to be successful. The establishing of a positive environment where the dog learns to be a good dog and everything is positive reinforcement sets the table for the next phase where you are trying to stop or redirect bad behavior. Someone earlier wanted to know about how positive reinforcement works with discouraging bad behavior and the answer is pretty simple. When the dog offers up the appropriate behavior they get a good boy and a treat. When they do it wrong, they don't get a good boy or a treat, but they do get to do it again. Once you get the dog to wondering what it has to do to get the treat, you have now established good communications with your dog.

A good starting point is to study your breed and learn to work with or channel the breed's natural behaviors to achieve results. You need to learn how to talk to the dog in their language. A pack leader uses positive reinforcment by playing and grooming within the pack, but the minute the playing gets out of hand, there is a quick growl that says stop, stop now.

A clicker used correctly is a great positive reinforcement and is followed by a treat. A negative reinforcement can be a simple no said correctly although most dog trainers I know don't recommend using the word "no" for this purpose. My wife uses uh-oh for her negative marker which makes all three of our dogs stop and look at her. The theory behind the negative marker is to let the dog know that something bad will happen if they don't stop. This doesn't mean a harsh correction is required, but at some point you probably will need to give a quick tug on the leash to get their attention and remind them that you are in charge and they need to listen.

From my point of view, you need to establish better communications with your dog. When you make the dog sit, does the dog stay in the sit until you release her? You should have a release command that tells the dog you are done with this excercise. You need to establish a set of behaviors that are acceptable and then reinforce those behaviors so that the dog sees you as the pack leader. Most dogs don't want to be the leader, but they will fill the position if they don't get what they need from you. The German Sheperd's history as a herding and guard dog means it is looking to you for direction and is hard wired to work with it's handler, this usually makes them easy to train.

[markem]

My question would be this: how often is your dog around other dogs? We had a greyhound that had socialization issues until we started taking him to doggy day care. Tired and happy at the end of the day and really started behaving in an idea manner. Our newest greyhound is also getting the day care treatment and all the best traits of the breed have come out and he has no bad habits.

Personally, before taking advice from a cigar board where people haven't evaluated the dog in person, I'd call your vet and ask for a recommendation for a veterinary psychologist (if you are in Seattle, I know one of the best). The dog needs to be evaluated before you try to fix what is wrong because trying to fix the wrong thing the wrong way (or not actually addressing what is wrong) is a way bad idea.

Our neighbor across the street is going though something similar with their german shepherd and they have decided that yelling at the dog, using a painful collar and spraying vinegar is the way to go. They have two autistic children. Care to guess how this is all going to end? I have cornered the child welfare case worker by the mailbox about my concerns, but their take is that unless and until something happens ...