JoePa.....Sad if true....

[BigAsh]

New York Times reports that Penn State is planning Paterno's exit amid the sex abuse scandal involving the former D coordinator....I would hate to see his storied carrer, and legacy, sullied by this scandal....

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/crime&id=8422897

[croatan]

My opinion: anyone who had any knowledge of this and didn't take proper action (which it appears no one did) needs to go down. There is nothing you can do on or off a football field to make up for that.

[E.J.]

On the flip side, this is REALLY BAD NEWS STUFF. From what I am hearing, I think this does sullie his career and puts a HUGE BLACK STAIN on the University. I'd fire(and charge if possible) anyone within ear shot of this, that just sort of swept it under the table... "We took his keys to the locker room." WTF????????????

The Grand Jury Report - IT IS BRUTAL, Graphic Content.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?section=news&id=8421115

[marge796]

My opinion: anyone who had any knowledge of this and didn't take proper action (which it appears no one did) needs to go down. There is nothing you can do on or off a football field to make up for that.

I agree 100%, I grew up an hour from State College I have family who work at Penn State I've been a season football ticket holder. I love the Penn State mystic, I'm one of those Penn Staters Joe has referenced in the recent days, this is so hard to swallow! But with all that said Joe and everyone from the President on down must go at once! This horrible secret/cover up has gone on long enough. From one Penn Stater to the victims, I am truly sorry for what has happened to you!

[kelmac07]

While I am a die hard Penn State fan...if he knew about it...he's got to go. And that paints everything he did over his wonderful career with a big ole asterisk.

[loki]

My opinion: anyone who had any knowledge of this and didn't take proper action (which it appears no one did) needs to go down. There is nothing you can do on or off a football field to make up for that.

legally joe did everything he needed to. morally, not even close. none of them did, including the graduate assistant that first saw the act in the shower. i'm ashamed to have graduated from penn state. right in the school song "may no act of ours bring shame". **** that place

[massphatness]

My opinion: anyone who had any knowledge of this and didn't take proper action (which it appears no one did) needs to go down. There is nothing you can do on or off a football field to make up for that.

Gotta' agree, James

[replicant_argent]

I don't give a rats aRse about the football side of it, and IMHO no one else should either. If you do, it shows some kind of empathy for a piece of filth, if he has done these things.
May truth and justice prevail on the situation, and may there be some peace for the alleged victims.

[loki]

I don't give a rats aRse about the football side of it, and IMHO no one else should either. If you do, it shows some kind of empathy for a piece of filth, if he has done these things.
May truth and justice prevail on the situation, and may there be some peace for the alleged victims.

joe didn't commit acts of pedophilia, let's be clear about that pete. what he is guilty of, and it seems everyone involved is, is not doing enough to stop it

[replicant_argent]

joe didn't commit acts of pedophilia, let's be clear about that pete. what he is guilty of, and it seems everyone involved is, is not doing enough to stop it

Correct... Covering up, "ignoring," deflecting knowledge is despicable, Kevin.

Almost as vile as the perpetrators of pedophilia themselves, IMO.

[14holestogie]

Joe...must....go. Along with any others that had any knowledge.

[loki]

Correct... Covering up, "ignoring," deflecting knowledge is despicable, Kevin.

Almost as vile as the perpetrators of pedophilia themselves, IMO.

no argument here

[KidRock]

This makes me sick to my stomac..no excuses......NONE

[Coach Deg]

I am disgusted with this and I agree all that had knowledge should be gone as in jailed!!!

Then I heard a radio broadcaster give this senario---

You get the news that one of your best friends and coworker has done a despicable act. You think there is absolutely no way. You confront him and he vehemently denies it. You go to your supervisors( president in charge of campus police and AD). They say they are going to start an investigation. They come back and say they have done an investigation and he is innocent. At that point shouldn't you be a little satisfied? Why push further? You want to believe your friend? You want to believe an investigation was actually done.

It made me think??????

[loki]

signs are pointing to joepa being done as of today. i'm just gutted.

[Resipsa]

My opinion: anyone who had any knowledge of this and didn't take proper action (which it appears no one did) needs to go down. There is nothing you can do on or off a football field to make up for that.

+1

can't really add anything to this.

[14holestogie]

signs are pointing to joepa being done as of today. i'm just gutted.

If they were going to let him go for the reasons above, today makes more sense than waiting for the end of the season. That would just raise more eyebrows.

[OLS]

I am guessing that he wishes he had just stepped down 2-3 years ago and made it extremely honorable and
a sure enough tear-jerker for many of his adoring fans. Almost anyone you ask will admit it's already past
time to be moving on, but no one can bear to really wish for it, no true PSU fans anyway. But now, this
is not like Brett Favre where in 10 years, most people will just remember the accomplishments, not
so much that he went out floundering. But this on Joe, wow, that's gonna stick. Ehh, maybe it's just the same.
hard to say.

[NCRadioMan]

They are letting him and all the others go because they are going to face major lawsuits from these families. High officials in the University knew what had happened with the words of eyewitness accounts and did nothing and even welcomed the scumbag to the campus up until last week!

All of them, including Joe, are partly responsible for every kid that was harmed after 2002 at the hand of that POS. I think like some are saying, if he had to do it over again, he would go the the police. But the decision not to is going to haunt his memory and career for lots of people.

:2

[BigCat]

I am disgusted with this and I agree all that had knowledge should be gone as in jailed!!!

Then I heard a radio broadcaster give this senario---

You get the news that one of your best friends and coworker has done a despicable act. You think there is absolutely no way. You confront him and he vehemently denies it. You go to your supervisors( president in charge of campus police and AD). They say they are going to start an investigation. They come back and say they have done an investigation and he is innocent. At that point shouldn't you be a little satisfied? Why push further? You want to believe your friend? You want to believe an investigation was actually done.

It made me think??????

The problem is that you got the news from someone else you trusted who watched your friend rape a little boy in the shower. It isn't like he heard it on the street. And the guy that saw it and didn't interrupt it is as big a piece of sh*t as anyone.

[elderboy02]

...
The Grand Jury Report - IT IS BRUTAL, Graphic Content.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?section=news&id=8421115

Wow, I am disgusted.

[Eleven]

Bill Clinton was impeached, not for getting a hummer, but for lying about it. Martha Stewart went to jail not for insider trading, but for lying about it.

If anyone lied or covered up for this criminal, they are just as guilty in my book.

[BigAsh]

Bill Clinton was impeached, not for getting a hummer, but for lying about it. Martha Stewart went to jail not for insider trading, but for lying about it.

If anyone lied or covered up for this criminal, they are just as guilty in my book.

ABSOLUTELY no allegation Paterno lied about anything....he did what he was LEGALLY required to do, report it to his superiors....my question is what were his MORAL obligations...here is a quote from the head of the PA State Police:

State police commissioner Frank Noonan said Monday that Paterno fulfilled his legal obligations and was in no danger of being charged with any criminal wrongdoing, but that he felt the 84-year-old coach had not lived up to his moral obligations.

"Somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," Noonan said. "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

[Wanger]

Read the Grand Jury report and wanted to throw up. Think if your son was one of the kids. Who would you go after...EVERYONE who had ANY shred of prior knowledge and didn't follow through. While Paterno did all he was LEGALLY required to do, following his MORAL convictions would have included taking the GA to the police himself to get the story out to them. In addition, what about the GA's dad? He should have taken his son to the police about what he saw.

All the stories have similarities. That makes the allegations VERY solid, in my book. Throw him in general population, and see what happens when the predator becomes the prey. I'm normally not one to approve of that type of justice, but it's viable in this case, to me. :( I'm betting that it won't even make it to trial. The guy will likely "handle things on his own" before then, I suspect. Isn't that what usually happens in cases like this? They can't face what they did and what is likely to happen to them in prison.

[rizzle]

It's time to go. No question.

[AD720]

ABSOLUTELY no allegation Paterno lied about anything....he did what he was LEGALLY required to do, report it to his superiors....my question is what were his MORAL obligations...here is a quote from the head of the PA State Police:

State police commissioner Frank Noonan said Monday that Paterno fulfilled his legal obligations and was in no danger of being charged with any criminal wrongdoing, but that he felt the 84-year-old coach had not lived up to his moral obligations.

"Somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," Noonan said. "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

Exactly, that's why the VP and AD got arrested - they lied.

I'm no lawyer, and I don't play one on TV but since Joe P didn't see this with his own eyes what steps would have the police taken? Wouldn't it have been necessary to have the grad asst be the complainant? (not excusing by a long shot, just wondering). Like if someone tells me they see a crime and I call the police and say that someone told me they saw a crime are the police going to care what I have to say?

[Mikey202]

I was born and raised 45 minutes from the Penn State . Since I was a kid, I've been a Penn State fan. I always looked at JoePa as a person of integrity, on and off the field.

He did not do everything he could do. He is Penn State. He needed to make this his life mission to either clear Sandusky's name, or put him in jail. When he did his part, and reported it to the next level, and they did nothing.... that is where he fell short.
He could have done more for the victims, the witnesses, the school , the fans. Even for Sandusky, if he was being falsely accused.

This is a failure of leadership. This is the end of Penn State.

[replicant_argent]

I don't think this is about the school or the fans at all, Mikey.

[Mikey202]

I don't think this is about the school or the fans at all, Mikey.

I respect your opinion.

[BigAsh]

JoePa to retire at end of season...his statement:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - November 9, 2011 (WPVI) -- Penn State football coach Joe Paterno announced in a statement that he has decided to retire at the end of the season.


The statement reads:

I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.

This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

[Resipsa]

Exactly, that's why the VP and AD got arrested - they lied.

I'm no lawyer, and I don't play one on TV but since Joe P didn't see this with his own eyes what steps would have the police taken? Wouldn't it have been necessary to have the grad asst be the complainant? (not excusing by a long shot, just wondering). Like if someone tells me they see a crime and I call the police and say that someone told me they saw a crime are the police going to care what I have to say?yes.

[E.J.]

I don't think this is about the school or the fans at all, Mikey.

I disagree.........I REALLY DISAGREE.

Crazy/telling/appropriate? to see Matt Millen break down on SportsCenter today....the gravity of this for Penn State as an institution. This is so far bigger than pointing the finger at one or two douchebags.

[Wanger]

I disagree.........I REALLY DISAGREE.

Crazy/telling/appropriate? to see Matt Millen break down on SportsCenter today....the gravity of this for Penn State as an institution. This is so far bigger than pointing the finger at one or two douchebags.

Agree 100%. It's institutional failure to protect children from a predator (and I don't mean the school with the term institutional), plain and simple. There are a lot of wrongs that have been done in this case that can't be righted. This case makes me just sick. :(

[massphatness]

JoePa to retire at end of season...his statement:

... That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. ...

Not enough, in my opinion. His retirement should become effective immediately.

[loki]

I don't think this is about the school or the fans at all, Mikey.

you're wrong pete, dead wrong. it's far less about us then it is about the kids who were raped, not even close, orders of magnitude less. everyone reread that before someone goes off half cocked. but this does impact everyone who went to, graduated or just liked penn state. I'm gutted over this, I'm gutted that the institution that I spent years cheering for and attending would allow this **** to happen. this has changed everything about how I looked at something I considered myself a member of family of. it hurts me personally that this occurred and how it was handled.

[Mikey202]

you're wrong pete, dead wrong. it's far less about us then it is about the kids who were raped, not even close, orders of magnitude less. everyone reread that before someone goes off half cocked. but this does impact everyone who went to, graduated or just liked penn state. I'm gutted over this, I'm gutted that the institution that I spent years cheering for and attending would allow this **** to happen. this has changed everything about how I looked at something I considered myself a member of family of. it hurts me personally that this occurred and how it was handled.

Well said.

[shilala]

I've been reading about this very closely since the moment the story broke.
Boiled down to brass tacks, what I've learned so far is that Joe had no knowledge of any specific anything (at least up until a point). The grad student fed JoePa a small piece of info on which he acted immediately. It was then handled improperly by the school officials for years.

This is another typical media lynching, and of course it needs to fall on JoePa's head because he's the face of Penn State.
It's wrong and it's disgusting.

This is a man who has devoted his life to excellence, training men to be great men, donating almost all the money he has ever made back to the college so that even more men could become greater men.
And for all this selflessness all these years, he's the bad guy for not stopping something he had no knowledge or power over? He should have stopped taking care of all the hundreds of people he was devoted to caring for, because he should have magically known everything that went on? He should have had full rein over the entire college's policy because he's a football coach?

It doesn't make even one single ounce of sense that he would have ignored this, beit specifically or otherwise. He's retiring over the sheer guilt he's feeling that it could have happened in a place that he regarded so highly and worked so hard to make exceptional. He wishes he'd have known, wishes he could have done something, wishes he could have saved these boys, and is tortured that it happened. He's made statements directly to that effect. These are statements from the one man in high profile athletics who has never been caught in a lie, never been indicted, never been called on the carpet for cheating, a truly decent man.
And he's the bad guy?

There could not have been a single person in that school from janitor to student to faculty to the president that didn't know about this when that grad student saw that ten year old boy being raped in the shower. Or when the janitor witnessed another incident. Or when the Physical Plant employee witnessed another incident.
Everyone had to believe it was being handled and handled correctly. In hindsight, of course he could have done more. So could every single one of the people who ever set foot on that campus for all those years this was going on.

Read the Grand Jury indictment. The Department of Child Welfare knew what was going on in 1998 and they did nothing.
Dozens of people who knew of this first hand did everything they could and school officials lied and hid and did nothing.
Detectives were dispatched and hidden microphone converstaions took place and they did nothing.

The one man who stands out as a decent human being who has served God and his fellow man for his entire life is being blamed and ruined over this, and it's a sick injustice.
Read his statements. His prayers are with all these families. He'll do everything he can to help them, because that's who he is. To crucify him for not doing more is ridiculous, patently unfair, and blatently obvious to anyone who is willing to take five minutes to read, rather than to listen to the dogsh1t fed them by the media.

If there's a "right" side in this sickening, painful mess, it's to pray for these young men and their families who now have to relive this horror all over again. To abandon and assail a man like JoePa and try to somehow make it his fault is disgusting.
I'd far rather people blame me. I'm more deserving. I've done tons of awful things in my life and I probably deserve to be blamed for something I'm not guilty of.

[Starscream]

I've been reading about this very closely since the moment the story broke.
Boiled down to brass tacks, what I've learned so far is that Joe had no knowledge of any specific anything (at least up until a point). The grad student fed JoePa a small piece of info on which he acted immediately. It was then handled improperly by the school officials for years.

This is another typical media lynching, and of course it needs to fall on JoePa's head because he's the face of Penn State.
It's wrong and it's disgusting.

This is a man who has devoted his life to excellence, training men to be great men, donating almost all the money he has ever made back to the college so that even more men could become greater men.
And for all this selflessness all these years, he's the bad guy for not stopping something he had no knowledge or power over? He should have stopped taking care of all the hundreds of people he was devoted to caring for, because he should have magically known everything that went on? He should have had full rein over the entire college's policy because he's a football coach?

It doesn't make even one single ounce of sense that he would have ignored this, beit specifically or otherwise. He's retiring over the sheer guilt he's feeling that it could have happened in a place that he regarded so highly and worked so hard to make exceptional. He wishes he'd have known, wishes he could have done something, wishes he could have saved these boys, and is tortured that it happened. He's made statements directly to that effect. These are statements from the one man in high profile athletics who has never been caught in a lie, never been indicted, never been called on the carpet for cheating, a truly decent man.
And he's the bad guy?

There could not have been a single person in that school from janitor to student to faculty to the president that didn't know about this when that grad student saw that ten year old boy being raped in the shower. Or when the janitor witnessed another incident. Or when the Physical Plant employee witnessed another incident.
Everyone had to believe it was being handled and handled correctly. In hindsight, of course he could have done more. So could every single one of the people who ever set foot on that campus for all those years this was going on.

Read the Grand Jury indictment. The Department of Child Welfare knew what was going on in 1998 and they did nothing.
Dozens of people who knew of this first hand did everything they could and school officials lied and hid and did nothing.
Detectives were dispatched and hidden microphone converstaions took place and they did nothing.

The one man who stands out as a decent human being who has served God and his fellow man for his entire life is being blamed and ruined over this, and it's a sick injustice.
Read his statements. His prayers are with all these families. He'll do everything he can to help them, because that's who he is. To crucify him for not doing more is ridiculous, patently unfair, and blatently obvious to anyone who is willing to take five minutes to read, rather than to listen to the dogsh1t fed them by the media.

If there's a "right" side in this sickening, painful mess, it's to pray for these young men and their families who now have to relive this horror all over again. To abandon and assail a man like JoePa and try to somehow make it his fault is disgusting.
I'd far rather people blame me. I'm more deserving. I've done tons of awful things in my life and I probably deserve to be blamed for something I'm not guilty of.

Well said, Scott. Unless there's something that I'm not hearing about or am mis-interpreting, I feel the same way about him.

[shilala]

I should also mention that I'm not a Penn State alum, no more than a run-of the-mill Penn State fan, and really don't have anything invested in JoePa except that I've followed for years all his philanthrophic activities. They've been in print for all the 43 years I lived an hour or so away from State College.

[shilala]

Well said, Scott. Unless there's something that I'm not hearing about or am mis-interpreting, I feel the same way about him.
I am almost as saddened by the way Joe Paterno is being hanged as I am of what happened to these children, Andy.
Not one person took time in this thread to attack that sick son of a b1tch Sandusky that raped these boys, but everyone has taken time to indict a good man.
It's a ****ing travesty, and it's shameful.

[massphatness]

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.

[replicant_argent]

I disagree.........I REALLY DISAGREE.

Crazy/telling/appropriate? to see Matt Millen break down on SportsCenter today....the gravity of this for Penn State as an institution. This is so far bigger than pointing the finger at one or two douchebags.

you're wrong pete, dead wrong. it's far less about us then it is about the kids who were raped, not even close, orders of magnitude less. everyone reread that before someone goes off half cocked. but this does impact everyone who went to, graduated or just liked penn state. I'm gutted over this, I'm gutted that the institution that I spent years cheering for and attending would allow this **** to happen. this has changed everything about how I looked at something I considered myself a member of family of. it hurts me personally that this occurred and how it was handled.

I don't care where this happened. I don't care about the team. I will not feel somehow let down because a certain institution will be impacted. The rah-rah bullsh!t mentality is a waste of time. This is simply about the good old boy protectionism and perversion of individuals. If this happened at 3M you wouldn't have people wringing their hands about the "integrity of the company" and the "stellar performance of it's divisions" by the average Joe. While having passion for your particular sports teams is certainly something many people enjoy, I think that perhaps if this situation gets you all bent out of shape regarding the institution (other than feeling that those people that didn't do the right and moral thing made the school a lesser place, and wanting that culture to occur at a higher standard) perhaps your priorities aren't what I would perceive to be in the same hierarchy as my own.
Yes, if this business that is Penn State has people working for it who cultivate a view of themselves as being apart or above the law, it needs to change. Sports are a business for the Universities, with some other added benefits. Huge egos, in a small subculture of our society that is rewarded and stroked by millions and millions of people. Many of them "play by their own rules" which, in most cases, is fairly harmless. In some instances like this one it has evolved into a disgusting hydra of a shameful and heartbreaking situation.
I feel for the victims of this. Those guilty of the perversion/shielding/deflecting/lying/not acting in the proper manner or not following through should get the justice they deserve.
Does that mean I will get out the crying towel for the institution and how it's reputation is stained, damaged, etc?

No. Simple priorities. It is about the victims, and the guilty. I will not be anguished over a flawed institution (business). I would hope they take every step necessary to repair the culture that allowed this to happen. That I can see is germane to this discussion.

edit:
Regarding Joe Pa, in my world, if presented with something like this, so very, very wrong, I do not think I could simply "report it" and then not make sure it was handled. The buck stopped, for the most part with him. Half measures and deflections and putting your head in the sand after you "did what was required" of you reminds me of a certain ongoing problem in another, very old monstrous institution. With the same type of problem.

[Starscream]

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.

That's what I'm missing. What was the moral thing to do? Beat his @$$ (which is what I might have done if I were him)? He told his superiors what was going on, then he was told by his superiors that they had taken care of the issue/cleared his name.

[croatan]

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.

Same here.

Also, after reading the grand jury report, a Texas court would most definitely have a different take on whether he did the "legal thing". Many states, including Texas, require every person who has cause to believe (notice it says "cause to believe", a pretty low standard) that a child is being abused or neglected to report it. Additionally, here, "professionals" including doctors, teachers, and anyone who works with children, are even required to report within 48 hours or face criminal sanctions.

Just because something is legal somewhere (assuming it even is--I don't know Pennsylvania criminal law) doesn't make it right.

[loki]

I don't care where this happened. I don't care about the team. I will not feel somehow let down because a certain institution will be impacted. The rah-rah bullsh!t mentality is a waste of time. This is simply about the good old boy protectionism and perversion of individuals. If this happened at 3M you wouldn't have people wringing their hands about the "integrity of the company" and the "stellar performance of it's divisions" by the average Joe. While having passion for your particular sports teams is certainly something many people enjoy, I think that perhaps if this situation gets you all bent out of shape regarding the institution (other than feeling that those people that didn't do the right and moral thing made the school a lesser place, and wanting that culture to occur at a higher standard) perhaps your priorities aren't what I would perceive to be in the same hierarchy as my own.
Yes, if this business that is Penn State has people working for it who cultivate a view of themselves as being apart or above the law, it needs to change. Sports are a business for the Universities, with some other added benefits. Huge egos, in a small subculture of our society that is rewarded and stroked by millions and millions of people. Many of them "play by their own rules" which, in most cases, is fairly harmless. In some instances like this one it has evolved into a disgusting hydra of a shameful and heartbreaking situation.
I feel for the victims of this. Those guilty of the perversion/shielding/deflecting/lying/not acting in the proper manner or not following through should get the justice they deserve.
Does that mean I will get out the crying towel for the institution and how it's reputation is stained, damaged, etc?

No. Simple priorities. It is about the victims, and the guilty. I will not be anguished over a flawed institution (business). I would hope they take every step necessary to repair the culture that allowed this to happen. That I can see is germane to this discussion.

edit:
Regarding Joe Pa, in my world, if presented with something like this, so very, very wrong, I do not think I could simply "report it" and then not make sure it was handled. The buck stopped, for the most part with him. Half measures and deflections and putting your head in the sand after you "did what was required" of you reminds me of a certain ongoing problem in another, very old monstrous institution. With the same type of problem.

remember that thing i said about going off half cocked? you either didn't read what I wrote or chose to ignore it

[replicant_argent]

remember that thing i said about going off half cocked? you either didn't read what I wrote or chose to ignore it

I did. It is not about the fans or the alumni. You and I will have to agree to disagree.

[loki]

I did. It is not about the fans or the alumni. You and I will have to agree to disagree.

yes everything can only be black and white. so by your line of thinking, this isn't about joe or the university, it's only about the sick **** who was raping little boys

[E.J.]

IMO, I will formulate opinion on people, not only on their ability to follow the laws on the land, but of the moral laws of humankind.

If someone on my staff came up to me and said that they just observed another member of my staff, who happened to be a long time friend, anally rapping a kid, I would not feel my "duty" ended when I did the minimum of all actions, which is to leave that information in someone elses hands, let someone else deal with it.

ESPECIALLY when I see that went nowhere. It should be noted that this was not the first time I had heard "rumblings" about this dirtbag.

This is not just about one person either, it is about every person at Penn State and even outside of Penn State University, who knew about this and did nothing more than the bare minimum at best, less than that at worst.

In the end, unless you are going with the theory that McQueary made up the story...then McQueary failed. Then Paterno failed. Then Curley failed. Then Schultz failed. There are more names I am sure....

You watch Matt Millen here, you tell me that he doesn't know this exact statement in his heart... McQueary failed. Then Paterno failed. Then Curley failed. Then Schultz failed. Penn State University, which is part of me, the place which had a big part of making me who I am today, a place I love, people that I love, failed these children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKAt1rm9QA&feature=player_embedded

[pnoon]

Let's keep this civil and about the issues.
I won't ask a second time.
Posted via Mobile Device

[massphatness]

That's what I'm missing. What was the moral thing to do? Beat his @$$ (which is what I might have done if I were him)? He told his superiors what was going on, then he was told by his superiors that they had taken care of the issue/cleared his name.

In my mind, the moral thing to do would have been to report the information to law enforcement. I'm pretty sure the parents of the rape victims would agree on this point.

[loki]

McQueary failed the second he didn't rush in and slam sanduskys head into a wall

[AD720]

But vin, at that point would it just be hearsay? "I heard from somebody that X happened"?

If you read the indictment, which I'd only recommend to those with strong stomachs, the police, CPS, et all had known about this guy for a bit.

I still fail to see how Joe Pa retiring a disgrace is the next step.

[AD720]

I've been reading about this very closely since the moment the story broke.
Boiled down to brass tacks, what I've learned so far is that Joe had no knowledge of any specific anything (at least up until a point). The grad student fed JoePa a small piece of info on which he acted immediately. It was then handled improperly by the school officials for years.

This is another typical media lynching, and of course it needs to fall on JoePa's head because he's the face of Penn State.
It's wrong and it's disgusting.

This is a man who has devoted his life to excellence, training men to be great men, donating almost all the money he has ever made back to the college so that even more men could become greater men.
And for all this selflessness all these years, he's the bad guy for not stopping something he had no knowledge or power over? He should have stopped taking care of all the hundreds of people he was devoted to caring for, because he should have magically known everything that went on? He should have had full rein over the entire college's policy because he's a football coach?

It doesn't make even one single ounce of sense that he would have ignored this, beit specifically or otherwise. He's retiring over the sheer guilt he's feeling that it could have happened in a place that he regarded so highly and worked so hard to make exceptional. He wishes he'd have known, wishes he could have done something, wishes he could have saved these boys, and is tortured that it happened. He's made statements directly to that effect. These are statements from the one man in high profile athletics who has never been caught in a lie, never been indicted, never been called on the carpet for cheating, a truly decent man.
And he's the bad guy?

There could not have been a single person in that school from janitor to student to faculty to the president that didn't know about this when that grad student saw that ten year old boy being raped in the shower. Or when the janitor witnessed another incident. Or when the Physical Plant employee witnessed another incident.
Everyone had to believe it was being handled and handled correctly. In hindsight, of course he could have done more. So could every single one of the people who ever set foot on that campus for all those years this was going on.

Read the Grand Jury indictment. The Department of Child Welfare knew what was going on in 1998 and they did nothing.
Dozens of people who knew of this first hand did everything they could and school officials lied and hid and did nothing.
Detectives were dispatched and hidden microphone converstaions took place and they did nothing.

The one man who stands out as a decent human being who has served God and his fellow man for his entire life is being blamed and ruined over this, and it's a sick injustice.
Read his statements. His prayers are with all these families. He'll do everything he can to help them, because that's who he is. To crucify him for not doing more is ridiculous, patently unfair, and blatently obvious to anyone who is willing to take five minutes to read, rather than to listen to the dogsh1t fed them by the media.

If there's a "right" side in this sickening, painful mess, it's to pray for these young men and their families who now have to relive this horror all over again. To abandon and assail a man like JoePa and try to somehow make it his fault is disgusting.
I'd far rather people blame me. I'm more deserving. I've done tons of awful things in my life and I probably deserve to be blamed for something I'm not guilty of.

Agreed.

And I didn't go to penn state and I don't watch college football.

[shilala]

I rarely disagree with you, Scott, but in this case I do.

Paterno did the legal thing. But he failed to do the moral thing.
What we're missing here is that we don't know all the things that he truly did do. We know one thing, and that is that he immediately reported the incident to his superiors. We don't even know if he followed up or not, but everyone is assuming that based on God knows what. It's certainly not based on his character or past performance.
If we're assuming he did nothing else but take this to his higher ups, that also makes no sense. He's not spoken to his personal involvement or mentioned what he did or did not do.
That goes right back to indicting him on what's in our imagination rather than what actually happened.
Along the way he also dismissed Sandusky from his ball club, plus let him know that he was no longer in line for the head coaching position that was to be passed to him. So that's three things we know he did.
We don't have to agree, my friend, but I'm not sure what this moral thing is that he failed to do, or how we know he didn't do it?

Sandusky was allowed by the college's officials to continue use of all Penn State's facilities AFTER Joe had already run him out of his program. Doesn't that sound like Joe's hands were tied, or that he must have been led to believe that all these accusations against Sandusky were either erroneous or already taken care of?

[massphatness]

But vin, at that point would it just be hearsay? "I heard from somebody that X happened"?

If you read the indictment, which I'd only recommend to those with strong stomachs, the police, CPS, et all had known about this guy for a bit.

I still fail to see how Joe Pa retiring a disgrace is the next step.

I guess the question I would need to ask myself is if it had happened to my kid, would I be ok that Paterno took no other action than informing his superior?

My answer would be no, I would most definitely not be ok.


To be clear, Paterno is far from the only one who has culpability here, but he was in a position to stop this guy and didn't even though he followed the letter of the law.

And Scott, Joe Paterno IS Penn State -- his hands are never tied.

[AD720]

I guess the question I would need to ask myself is if it had happened to my kid, would I be ok that Paterno took no other action than informing his superior?

My answer would be no, I would most definitely not be ok.


To be clear, Paterno is far from the only one who has culpability here, but he was in a position to stop this guy and didn't even though he followed the letter of the law.

And Scott, Joe Paterno IS Penn State -- his hands are never tied.

Vin, agreed 100%. But...

Do you know that he took no other action? Do you know that he wasn't told that it was "handled" by the two guys that got arrested for lying to the grand jury?

Like Scott says, him being complacent in this or one step further, assisting in a cover up as some people (not here that I have seen) seem to believe does not go along with his character as it is known for his past actions that have been substantiated.

[Resipsa]

"It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a single act to destroy it."

Perhaps words to remember and live by.

JoePa doesn't get a pass because of all of the other things he did. Sorry.

[shilala]

In my mind, the moral thing to do would have been to report the information to law enforcement. I'm pretty sure the parents of the rape victims would agree on this point.
Law enforcement was already involved at the time Joe became involved, Vin. Actually, they were involved years prior. And did nothing.
Joe had already removed Sandusky from his program, told him he wouldn't be receiving the head coaching position, and reported the grad student's information. All things that were within his power.

Penn State officials allowed Sandusky to continue to use Penn State facilities as part of his retirement in 99 when Joe ran him off.

[AD720]

"It takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a single act to destroy it."

Perhaps words to remember and live by.

JoePa doesn't get a pass because of all of the other things he did. Sorry.

That is my point! What was the single act? No one knows what he was told was happening. No one here at least or in the media. It's all just conjecture. The Police already knew about this guy. I just don't get the vilification.

What I'm saying is, based on the lifetime of reputation it's hard to believe that he WOULD do the "single act" to tarnish it. Doesn't add up.

[Resipsa]

That is my point! What was the single act? No one knows what he was told was happening. No one here at least or in the media. It's all just conjecture. The Police already knew about this guy. I just don't get the vilification.

But we do know what he was told by McQueary do we not?

The failure to act IS an act, sometimes legally, more frequently morally.:)

[shilala]

But we do know what he was told by McQueary do we not?

The failure to act IS an act, sometimes legally, more frequently morally.:)
Maybe this will help...
Law enforcement was already involved at the time Joe became involved. Actually, they were involved years prior. And did nothing.
Joe had already removed Sandusky from his program, told him he wouldn't be receiving the head coaching position, and reported the grad student's information. All things that were within his power. Everything we know about the man makes it achingly obvious that he had to have done more than even the things we know.

Penn State officials allowed Sandusky to continue to use Penn State facilities as part of his retirement in 99 when Joe ran him off. That's despite having full disclosure and knowing he was raping children.

I know everyone is reacting on anger and conjecture. What's upsetting to me is that all the info is in the Grand Jury report. There are tons of links to reprots. The entire timeline is at wikipedia. All anyone has to do is read it like I did.
Joe didn't do nothing, he did far more than anyone at that University. He did everything in his power.
Maybe Joe should have put a bullet in Sandusky's head, and that's not sarcastic. If he had all the info the Grand Jury does, I'd be willing to bet he would have liked to. It's just plain wron to say a guy did nothing when the things he did are right in front of us in black and white.

I gotta quit arguing this because I'm getting upset. Joe can take care of himself. I just hope to God I never find myself in front of a jury of my peers who refuse to read the charges. I don't mean that insultingly, and I'm certainly not picking on you or Vin, Vic. I love and respect both of you guys, I'm sure you know that. I also admit I may have my timelines screwed up and what I'm asserting may not be completely accurate. I'm just quoting what I just read.

This whole thing just scares me to death. I sure hope I never find myself in Joe's shoes. It's a can't win situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
It's much akin to these women who file false rape charges against famous athletes and politicians. Once it's done, the harm can never be undone, regardless of whether there's an ounce of truth in it.
Maybe Joe could have done more, I don't know. But to say he did nothing is not true. I've mentioned three big things that he did do. To say he didn't follow up when we have no proof of that is also wrong and it's unfair.
Maybe Joe is guilty as hell. It could be. It just makes no sense. Not based on his track record, the person he's been, or the person he is. It's scary to think the whole world could turn on him this quick with not an ounce of proof.
It could just as easily happen to any one of us, and that's scary.

I'm gonna go say a prayer for all these people, including the children who are now adults. They need our support, not our arguing. I'm truly sorry if I caused any hard feelings with this arguing, it was not my desire or intent.
I love all you guys. :tu

[AD720]

Maybe this will help...
Law enforcement was already involved at the time Joe became involved. Actually, they were involved years prior. And did nothing.
Joe had already removed Sandusky from his program, told him he wouldn't be receiving the head coaching position, and reported the grad student's information. All things that were within his power. Everything we know about the man makes it achingly obvious that he had to have done more than even the things we know.

Penn State officials allowed Sandusky to continue to use Penn State facilities as part of his retirement in 99 when Joe ran him off. That's despite having full disclosure and knowing he was raping children.

I know everyone is reacting on anger and conjecture. What's upsetting to me is that all the info is in the Grand Jury report. There are tons of links to reprots. The entire timeline is at wikipedia. All anyone has to do is read it like I did.
Joe didn't do nothing, he did far more than anyone at that University. He did everything in his power.
Maybe Joe should have put a bullet in Sandusky's head, and that's not sarcastic. If he had all the info the Grand Jury does, I'd be willing to bet he would have liked to. It's just plain wron to say a guy did nothing when the things he did are right in front of us in black and white.

I gotta quit arguing this because I'm getting upset. Joe can take care of himself. I just hope to God I never find myself in front of a jury of my peers who refuse to read the charges. I don't mean that insultingly, and I'm certainly not picking on you or Vin, Vic. I love and respect both of you guys, I'm sure you know that. I also admit I may have my timelines screwed up and what I'm asserting may not be completely accurate. I'm just quoting what I just read.

This whole thing just scares me to death. I sure hope I never find myself in Joe's shoes. It's a can't win situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
It's much akin to these women who file false rape charges against famous athletes and politicians. Once it's done, the harm can never be undone, regardless of whether there's an ounce of truth in it.
Maybe Joe could have done more, I don't know. But to say he did nothing is not true. I've mentioned three big things that he did do. To say he didn't follow up when we have no proof of that is also wrong and it's unfair.
Maybe Joe is guilty as hell. It could be. It just makes no sense. Not based on his track record, the person he's been, or the person he is. It's scary to think the whole world could turn on him this quick with not an ounce of proof.
It could just as easily happen to any one of us, and that's scary.

I'm gonna go say a prayer for all these people, including the children who are now adults. They need our support, not our arguing. I'm truly sorry if I caused any hard feelings with this arguing, it was not my desire or intent.
I love all you guys. :tu


Ditto. Scott I agree with 100% of what you've said in this entire thread. Every word.

[E.J.]

Scott, I have read the information to are saying you have read. I still have a different opinion. That is okay, we do not have to agree and I don't want you to feel like there is ill will because of that. I am not saying I am right, just expressing where I stand.

You say that Joe Paterno did everything he could. I cannot agree, because in everything I have read, I have never see it reported that Joe Paterno reported his second hand knowledge of rape of a child, to the police. The report was from his staff and happened at his workplace. That is after you were privy to the fact that this may have happened before. It appears that he told his boss and washed his hands of it, then when nothing was done, it appears he said "so be it." IMO, when he was told, he should have phoned the police, right then and there....not a boss, not staffed it out, but dialed the police and said, I think you need to come listen to this.

According to the indictment, in 2002 a Penn State graduate assistant - now-assistant coach Mike McQueary[15] - walked in on a ten-year-old boy being subjected to anal intercourse by Sandusky in the Lasch Football Building on the Penn State campus.[16] The next day, he reported the incident to Paterno, who informed Curley. Ultimately, the only action Curley and Schultz took was to order Sandusky not to bring any children from Second Mile to the football building—an action that was approved by school president Graham Spanier. The indictment accused Curley and Schultz of not only failing to tell the police, but falsely telling the grand jury that the graduate assistant never informed them of sexual activity.


"This is a tragedy," Paterno said of the case. "It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

Pennsylvania state police Commissioner Frank Noonan said that though some may have fulfilled their legal obligation to report suspected abuse, "somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," and that, "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

[Eleven]

Paterno should go now.

[shilala]

Scott, I have read the information to are saying you have read. I still have a different opinion. That is okay, we do not have to agree and I don't want you to feel like there is ill will because of that. I am not saying I am right, just expressing where I stand.

You say that Joe Paterno did everything he could.
Thanks for that post, EJ. I completely respect your opinion, as I do everyone else's. We are certainly all entitled to one. :tu

I wanted to add that I didn't say Joe did everything he could.
My whole goal here was to point out that the assertions that he did nothing are patently untrue. He did many things that have been reported, and it's very likely he did much, much more that has not been reported.
Joe has said that in hindsight he wishes he'd have done more. I wish he'd have done more.
He's being vilified as if he did this himself, and it's wrong.
Four years before Joe knew anything, the local police, Department of Welfare, and the State Police were fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and they did nothing to stop it.
When Joe got was informed the very first time that something happened, even without specifics, he reported to the people he trusted to act on it and that trust was betrayed. Sandusky was his best friend, right hand man, in line to replace him as head coach, and someone he had great trust in. Joe told him he was not getting the job, removed from the football program, and completely cut ties with him. This was his best friend, and that's "doing nothing"? I can't imagine how crushed Joe must have been on so many levels, both personally and with the pain he felt for these children.
After Joe got rid of Sandusky, PSU Trustees then cut Sandusky a retirement deal that allowed him full access to PSU's facilities. I can't imagine what I'd do if I were Joe in that position. I can't even wrap my head around something like that. It's completely surreal.

That said, and even knowing so much about Joe over the last 44 years, I'm more than willing to consider he may have played a part in the coverup. It would make no sense whatsoever, but none of this does. I still have to consider it's possible because he's who he is.

I just think all this anger and hostility is misplaced. Maybe Joe has earned some, but he's the only one who has been shown to make some sort of effort to stop this or make a change in what was going on.
Graham Spanier deserves to be either shot or imprisoned for life, clearly. Tim Curley and Graham Schulz should suffer the same or worse. They knew what was happening and created an avenue for it to continue, as well as covering it up. The board of Trustees who let Sandusky have access to the facilty, knowing he was a rapist, should be right with the other three.
Yet the one man who tried to do something, even if it was true that it was almost nothing (and it's not), is being treated as if he did it himself.
That's wrong.

When this all washes out, I hope Joe is vindicated and it's proven that he went to great lengths to put a stop to all this. I doubt that'll happen, because no one wants to know. He's already been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt all over the world. Even if he is vindicated, it won't matter. The damage is done.
But for the love of all that is true and right would someone please be angry at the men who actually did this and colluded to let it happen? That would put some sense to this senseless, evil, disgusting mess. Be mad at Joe, too, if need be. He may deserve it.
That's the part that is so upsetting to me.

[NCRadioMan]

Fired, in disgrace.

Tom Bradley is the Interim Coach

[Eleven]

Paterno should go now.


I called that one. Good riddance and I hope EVERYONE that should go to jail, does so for a long, long time.

[SeanGAR]

I used to have a lot of respect for JoePa ... all down the drain in one truly sickening flush.

This whole thing is absolutely sickening .... I don't even want to think about it, but they damned well better nail this pervert to the wall and fire anybody involved in coverup, never to be hired again.

[Stephen]

McQueary failed the second he didn't rush in and slam sanduskys head into a wall
This is the one I don't get, and the individual that I'm most upset with in this sickening ordeal (outside Sandusky of course). How in the Hell do you observe something so vile, so heinous, walk away and do NOTHING??? Job or no, jail or no, Sandusky is meeting a fire extinguisher, trash can, anything I can get my hands on, and witnessing first hand as I transform into an instrument of God's wrath. Or, to put it bluntly, I'd have beaten his ass like he was Boggs and I was Captain Hadley.

[14holestogie]

JoePa to retire at end of season...his statement:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - November 9, 2011 (WPVI) -- Penn State football coach Joe Paterno announced in a statement that he has decided to retire at the end of the season.


The statement reads:

I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.

This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

When I heard this, I knew Joe's fate was sealed. It's almost like he was saying, "I got this, move along, nothing to see here." One last attempt at a power grab. Interpretations may vary, but that was my immediate thought. :2

[elderboy02]

I used to have a lot of respect for JoePa ... all down the drain in one truly sickening flush.

This whole thing is absolutely sickening .... I don't even want to think about it, but they damned well better nail this pervert to the wall and fire anybody involved in coverup, never to be hired again.

100% agreed.

[Resipsa]

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-Joe-Paterno-riot-police-deployed-110911

Way to go Penn State. Stay classy. I hope that a-hole perfectly identifiable with an idiotic grin on his face faces some serious charges.

[hotreds]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv111011dAPR20111110044534.jpg

[Mikey202]

:2Horrible.....from begining to end. My response on so many levels is WTF? When you read the Grand Jury report, all I can say is WTF?

So many people, did nothing, or not enough from the beginning. Eyewitnesses ,administrators, law enforcement, parents.
From the coach who caught him in the wieght room, "wrestling" with the first boy, to the cleaning staff who caught him with the last boy in the shower. You don't stop what you see going on? As a parent, uncle, friend of the family of the victim, you aren't getting arrested for attempting to beat Sandusky to death, or disorderly conduct when nothing is done when it's brought to light?
Sandusky doesn't get the chance to say," I'm sorry, it was wrong, it won't happen again." He said that when he was confronted. Unbelievable!!!!!
Ok, give me your keys, don't bring any more boys to the Penn State facility. WTF?

I just know what I would have done if I walked in on someone sexually abusing a ten year old in the shower, or if in a position of authority, this was brought to my attention, I would have resigned my position in protest, if nothing was done.
F**k a damn job, football program, University, ect., when it comes to things of this nature.

All I can say, is that there is alot of "gutless"" people who where involved and could have stepped in or stepped up, and made the choice to do nothing, or not enough.

In 2002, Joe Paterno should have resigned in protest, and called out the cowards who chose not do the right thing. :2

As a man,father,husband,uncle, Penn State fan, JoePa fan, born and raised in Nittany Lion country Pennsylvania boy, all I can say is WTF? I feel horrible for the victims.

I'm done talking about it. Thanks for letting me vent.

[Wanger]

I've read everyone's comments, and agree with points from all of them. While Paterno is legally not guilty of anything, he is morally guilty of not using better followthrough. That's what it boils down to, in his case. The others are in deep legal doodoo, because of their inactions and the coverups. They're f@cked legally. I read the indictment, and with all the similarities from all the different victims, I don't know how it could all just be made up. Too many coincidences.

Paterno and McQueary are morally guilty (maybe even more for McQueary). Should McQueary have bashed in that monster's skull the second he saw what he saw? Likely. Should he have gone to the authorities, instead of just his boss? DEFINITELY. McQueary's dad and Paterno are at fault there. He told both of them at least some version of what he saw. Were I either one of them, I would have personally escorted him to the police station to have him tell his story there. Plain and simple. That is the step that Paterno truly failed at. If someone told me they saw someone doing something inappropriate with a minor, my first question would be to ask if you've reported it to the police. If the answer was not "yes" my keys would be in my hand and we'd be out the door immediately.

he's had a stellar record as a person and a coach, but this is something that is completely independant of who he is and what he did for a living. Did his ego get in the way? I can't say that, as I don't know the man. He failed to live up to his own code and the code that others expected of him as a mentor and a leader of young men. Children's lives have been destroyed as a result of his (in addition to others) inaction. Because he had a bigger name than any of them, he is the one who will be more remembered for his failures. He HAD a stellar legacy. It is his own lack of action (at least that one time, in 2002) that has allowed it to be destroyed. Could he have done more? Yes. SHOULD he have done more? ABSOF@CKINGLUTELY!

As for the school...they're majorly f@cked. With what has come to light about the allegations and the fact that the monster had the access he did to the facilities that he did, even though some at the school knew of incidents that occured there, they should be facing HUGE lawsuits as soon as the trial to lock up that piece of garbage is done, at the latest.

[Stephen]

Paterno and McQueary are morally guilty (maybe even more for McQueary). Should McQueary have bashed in that monster's skull the second he saw what he saw? Likely. Should he have gone to the authorities, instead of just his boss? DEFINITELY. McQueary's dad and Paterno are at fault there. He told both of them at least some version of what he saw. Were I either one of them, I would have personally escorted him to the police station to have him tell his story there. Plain and simple. That is the step that Paterno truly failed at. If someone told me they saw someone doing something inappropriate with a minor, my first question would be to ask if you've reported it to the police. If the answer was not "yes" my keys would be in my hand and we'd be out the door immediately.
I just can't wrap around my noggin the fact that a 28-year-old man's first reaction to witnessing something like that is to call his Daddy. All I know is that's a burden he's going to have to carry with him for the rest of his life...

[Stephen]

I've been busy the past few days so I haven't been able to take in as much news as I normally do, but the Big Ten decided to remove Joe Paterno's name from the Big Ten football championship trophy (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7233492/big-ten-removes-joe-paterno-name-championship-trophy). Also, McQueary trying to do some damage control after his Grand Jury testimony was made public. What a piece of work this guy is...

[hotreds]

One tries to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but bottom line: what the Hell was he doing showering individually with a young boy? That alone is beyond the pale!

[hotreds]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/111115beelertoon_c20111115024049.jpg