Troubling sights at my local B&M

[Lonely Raven]

So I stopped into a B&M that's just blocks away from where I work a couple a days a week. They carry Tatuaje and the Hemmingway Work of Art, so I figured I'd poke in, ask about Wolfman, see if they have Tatuaje Black, and maybe pick up a short story and Work of Art.

While I was poking around there, I saw they had some Opus X Lost City. Expensive, but it's nice to know they were there...so I open up the tubo, only to find it spotted with mold. I tried to brush it off to see if it was just "bloom" from the oils, and no, it was a white mold. I found several other sticks around there looking the same way. That's disappointing, especially on such nice sticks..

So on my way out, I'm asking about Tatuaje stuff, and was flat out told that nobody really wants the Wolfman stuff, so he didn't even bother asking for it. As he's telling me this, he's "repairing" several sticks that clearly have beetle holes in them, by gluing bits of wrapper over the holes using a typical vegi glue used on cigar bands.

So I inquire, "these aren't for sale, are they?". He says "No, I'm repairing these for a customer". Then I'm like, "but they have beetles", and he says, "all cigars have beetles, you've probably been smoking them for years". I say "any cigar can have beetle's eggs, but if they hatch, you're smoking beetle crap!" and he pauses...shrugs and says "more protein".

So, this reputable local shop, I think just lost my business. :gary

[irratebass]

:jd WOW!!!!!!!
That is a horror story for sure!

[DaBear]

I find it more surprising that it sounds like the customer asked him to FIX his cigars with beetle holes. I mean once a beetle gets in there the pack and draw can go to ****, regardless of if the beetle is still there, so I'd think you'd want just a whole new cigar

[Blak Smyth]

Wow sounds like a disaster!
Pics?

[WittyUserName]

Damn that is a shame.

[Lonely Raven]

I was so very tempted to take photos...but I didn't want to be thrown out (which they can since it's privately owned property and not public space).

[deadrise]

I love me some beetle dung goes great with me coffee :dr :wo:cf2:r

[Blak Smyth]

I was so very tempted to take photos...but I didn't want to be thrown out (which they can since it's privately owned property and not public space).

It could have been a blessing in disguise:confused:

[Lonely Raven]

It could have been a blessing in disguise:confused:

Yeah, I guess I just didn't want any confrontation. I don't like burning bridges.

[kickerb]

CA spelling...gotta love it :D :r

Seriously though, that is an interesting story. I normally let a B&M slide on things such as mold. I dont expect them to inspect their inventory that much. It does happen. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

Now the other bit of the story, thats just nuts.

[Lonely Raven]

Yeah, sorry about the spelling. I realized that too late.

[kickerb]

Yeah, sorry about the spelling. I realized that too late.No worries, just giving you a hard time. :gary :D

[BlindedByScience]

Sad but true....there are more than a few B&M's like this one.

If the shop blows off customer requests, tries to pass off mold as "bloom" or "plume" or WTF ever, and would go so far as to paste wrapper scraps over beetle holes while telling a customer "all cigars have beetles", there's only one thing to do....vote with your feet and your pocketbook.

No need for a confrontation, just don't go back. Simple as that.

[Lonely Raven]

That's my plan exactly. It's too bad too, because their prices on Nubs and Hemmingways is about $1 less then any other shop in the area. But then, at this point I think I'll just have to order everything online or work out great trades with the folks here.

[Brutus2600]

ROFL. That's amazing. And terrible.

It looks like it's time to find a new B&M. Sounds like he doesn't care about his customers OR his cigars.

[neoflex]

I would have sent him a link here for the thread about the Wolfman or any other Cigar BB for that matter. Nobody wants them. :r
Sounds like they have all the right accounts but know nothing about the product or how to care for the product that they are selling. That's just sad and I would be just like you and leave probably to never return. It could have been some clueless employee so I honestly would probably go back one more time to see if anyone else was working and pick their brain a bit. If the results were the same I would definitely never return. Sometimes you just get clueless employees and every shop has them. Most just regurgitate information they hear people say whether it's right or wrong. I had an employee at a very reputable shop here when I questioned why the humidor was so hot and humid to the point where the parking garage adjacent to the store was cooler(mid summer nonetheless) reply with "Well to keep cigars fresh the humidity and temperature need to marry at 80.":O Granted he had just finished spending some time pushing smokes I had no interest in without even asking me what I smoke regularly or if I liked mild, medium or full bodied smokes so he was already on my nerves so I responded with "So your not worried that Cigar Beetles can hatch at 75 degrees." He said they never had any issues with beetles but granted that was the first time I went there and witnessed the humidor so hot and humid. It was at that point he finally left me alone and tried pushing those Warlocks on the next guy who walked in as he probably got the hint I wasn't going to buy what he was told to push that week. I've been back a few times since and have not seen this guy so maybe they got rid of him due to lack of knowledge.

[688sonarmen]

That sucks Eric. Who is the guy? I mean is he the week day guy or a manager? That is definitely the first time I have heard of a shop even entertaining the idea of hiding/patching beetle holes like it's a damn shoe shop. You could always go back when you know the owner/manager is there and tell him about it, how bad would it suck to own a place and have high standards only to find during the day some asshat is ruining your name.

[Lonely Raven]

The manager was busy assisting some guys who were buying 1000 smokes for some event...so this was the *owner* I believe.

I did tell him there was some interest in the Wolfman online, and then he went into this mini-rant, "well Tatuaje is at the mercy of Don Pepin and has to do what they say" and "I'd have to order hundreds of boxes of stuff I don't want in order to get one box of limited editions...it's just not worth the trouble"

[688sonarmen]

The manager was busy assisting some guys who were buying 1000 smokes for some event...so this was the *owner* I believe.

I did tell him there was some interest in the Wolfman online, and then he went into this mini-rant, "well Tatuaje is at the mercy of Don Pepin and has to do what they say" and "I'd have to order hundreds of boxes of stuff I don't want in order to get one box of limited editions...it's just not worth the trouble"

If what he said is true I don't blame him:2

[T.G]

Meh. I'd be more concerned with the humidor issues than anything else.

What they do, by request, with cigars that a customer already owns, isn't my concern.

Slight misinformation by a B&M employee or owner? Oh noes! Say it's not so!

If he feels that his customer base doesn't want the Wolfman, fine, there are plenty of other places out there to get them. I won't assume I know more than he does about what his clientele want.

[Drazzil]

Hah. I've smoked sticks with beetles (a few) in them. I remember this one time when I was new I had lit a cigar and I kept hearing this popping at the foot. About an inch downward a beetle started working its way out of the cigar, I thought to myself, "oh no you don't sucker" I pushed its ass back in and smoked it. It gave a satisfying pop when it died.

I don't remember this changing my cigar any.

[neoflex]

Hah. I've smoked sticks with beetles (a few) in them. I remember this one time when I was new I had lit a cigar and I kept hearing this popping at the foot. About an inch downward a beetle started working its way out of the cigar, I thought to myself, "oh no you don't sucker" I pushed its ass back in and smoked it. It gave a satisfying pop when it died.

I don't remember this changing my cigar any.

You sir are HARDCORE!:r

[Boz]

Hah. I've smoked sticks with beetles (a few) in them. I remember this one time when I was new I had lit a cigar and I kept hearing this popping at the foot. About an inch downward a beetle started working its way out of the cigar, I thought to myself, "oh no you don't sucker" I pushed its ass back in and smoked it. It gave a satisfying pop when it died.

I don't remember this changing my cigar any.


Haha, that is awesome! :tu

[T.G]

You sir are HARDCORE!:r

So are you and probably everyone else posting in this thread. Ever look up the FDA regulations on permissible levels of food contamination? The food defect levels act, I believe it's called, lays out the acceptable levels contamination in mass processed foods. It outlines just how much/many insects, maggots, insect fragments, rodent hairs, mold, fecal mater, etc are permissible in foods. So it's not like you haven't been munching on bugs all along anyway.

[irratebass]

So are you and probably everyone else posting in this thread. Ever look up the FDA regulations on permissible levels of food contamination? The food defect levels act, I believe it's called, lays out the acceptable levels contamination in mass processed foods. It outlines just how much/many insects, maggots, insect fragments, rodent hairs, mold, fecal mater, etc are permissible in foods. So it's not like you haven't been munching on bugs all along anyway.

Way to make every one sick T.G. :tu

[T.G]

Way to make every one sick T.G. :tu

Anyone up for some chocolate covered crickets?

Mmmmm. Crunchy.

http://www.flukerfarms.com/images/Iateabugbutton.jpg

[688sonarmen]

That cricket head looks a little strange:r

[DaBear]

So are you and probably everyone else posting in this thread. Ever look up the FDA regulations on permissible levels of food contamination? The food defect levels act, I believe it's called, lays out the acceptable levels contamination in mass processed foods. It outlines just how much/many insects, maggots, insect fragments, rodent hairs, mold, fecal mater, etc are permissible in foods. So it's not like you haven't been munching on bugs all along anyway.

This is actually true, especially in places that produce processed meats like pepperoni and salami. They can only have a certain amount of rat per pound other meat make it into the stuff. Its just an inevitable thing. Its impossible to kill all the mice/rats that are gonna make their way in so the standards have to be made to make sure that the place at least makes an attempt to keep most of them out

[NCRadioMan]

Meh. I'd be more concerned with the humidor issues than anything else.

What they do, by request, with cigars that a customer already owns, isn't my concern.

Slight misinformation by a B&M employee or owner? Oh noes! Say it's not so!

If he feels that his customer base doesn't want the Wolfman, fine, there are plenty of other places out there to get them. I won't assume I know more than he does about what his clientele want.

Agreed. And if it was a tubo, those are more susceptible to mold anyway and probably was there before it even entered the shop. Also, good humidor etiquette would be to not take the cigar out of the tube but let the clerk take it out to inspect it when you buy it. You would be surprised how many morons can't put the cigar back in the tube and/or damages it when they do.

:2

[Ismith75]

I think I know what shop you're talking about, I've seen similar things. It's hard because they have stuff that you can only really get there but stuff like that makes you cringe. I was given the same response regarding the Wolfman even with the preorder. :2

[BlindedByScience]

What they do, by request, with cigars that a customer already owns, isn't my concern.
....except I'll bet money they were repairing their own cigars, to put back on the shelf. How many time have you heard someone taking their cigars in to get "repaired"...?? Smells bad to me.

In any event, right or wrong, good or bad, truthful or bold faced liars....I would never go back.....:2

[Boz]

....except I'll bet money they were repairing their own cigars, to put back on the shelf. How many time have you heard someone taking their cigars in to get "repaired"...?? Smells bad to me.

In any event, right or wrong, good or bad, truthful or bold faced liars....I would never go back.....:2

This is precisely what I was thinking.

[CigarNut]

It all depends upon how well you know the store, the employees and the owner. If they have been reputable in the past then I would give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that he was repairing cigars for someone. Otherwise, I would take my business elsewhere -- but I would tell them why I was doing so.

If you remember the bands of any of the repaired cigars you could go looking for them the next day...

As for the mold, many B&Ms and online retailers have issues with mold. While I don't like buying sticks with mold on them, and will avoid it when I can, mold is pretty easy (if time consuming) to clean up.

Part whether or not you go back also depends upon if you have anywhere else to go... I am lucky in that we have a lot of B&M's in the area.

Just my :2

[N2 GOLD]

Shops like that are in it for the buck & not the life style & everything that comes wth it like life long friends/customers...

[neoflex]

....except I'll bet money they were repairing their own cigars, to put back on the shelf. How many time have you heard someone taking their cigars in to get "repaired"...?? Smells bad to me.

In any event, right or wrong, good or bad, truthful or bold faced liars....I would never go back.....:2

I like to bring my aged sticks in for an oil change at least once a quarter.:r

TG and DaBear, thanks for the reality check. Did I mention that I USED TO love pepperoni.:(:gary:D

[NCRadioMan]

How many time have you heard someone taking their cigars in to get "repaired"...?? Smells bad to me.



I have personally repaired several customers cigars when they asked me.

[BlindedByScience]

I have personally repaired several customers cigars when they asked me.
I'm curious; what kind of damage did you repair...??

I've got a lot of cigars at home in my Staebell, and I have a hard time imagining what kind of repairable damage they could incur...??

[neoflex]

I repair my own all the time. Usually cracked wrappers. Always tends to be the sticks without cello. Sometimes I will drop one while re-arranging(3ft drop onto hard woods) or every once in a while the foot or head gets caught while opening the draw in my cabinet or just physically handling them from time to time you can accidentally crack or tear a wrapper. I've also had sticks that came in through a trade etc that I have had to repair. A little pectin and voila, good as new.

[Doctorossi]

If he feels that his customer base doesn't want the Wolfman, fine, there are plenty of other places out there to get them. I won't assume I know more than he does about what his clientele want.

I'd like to see the Venn diagram indicating the percentage of Tatuaje customers not interested in the Wolfman- I'd imagine it's pretty miniscule. If this guy thinks "nobody wants the Wolfman", why is he carrying Tatuaje in the first place?

As for the mold, it's a little extra distressing to discover it inside a tubo, though that may indicate a problem further up the distribution chain.

[NCRadioMan]

I'm curious; what kind of damage did you repair...??
Just typical wrapper damage like cracks or splits. Some guys are very cheap, or maybe cost conscious is the right term, and will not toss a cigar for anything and will jump through hoops to be able to smoke it.


I've got a lot of cigars at home in my Staebell, and I have a hard time imagining what kind of repairable damage they could incur...??

Ever drop a cigar or drop your travel humidor when it's not full and the cigars have plenty of room to jostle?

[T.G]

....except I'll bet money they were repairing their own cigars, to put back on the shelf. How many time have you heard someone taking their cigars in to get "repaired"...?? Smells bad to me.


*shrug* Whatever you want to assume...

I fix cigars for people all the time, and I've seen shops do it too. Beetle damage, cracked caps, damaged & torn capas. No big deal and not that uncommon really.

If someone has a sizable or valuable collection and suffers an outbreak of beetles or other issues that goes unnoticed for some period of time that result in cigars being damaged, what are they supposed to do with the damaged cigars? Not everyone is willing to just throw cigars away.

[T.G]

I'd like to see the Venn diagram indicating the percentage of Tatuaje customers not interested in the Wolfman- I'd imagine it's pretty miniscule. If this guy thinks "nobody wants the Wolfman", why is he carrying Tatuaje in the first place?


Whether or not that is the case is not the issue, but apparently something makes him feel that way and I'm not going to sit here and pretend to know what those reasons are so as to refute them.

[BlindedByScience]

Well.....I guess I'm the exception. In many years, and thousands of cigars and lots of travel, I've never beat up a cigar so badly that it needed repair. Sure, I've dropped a few over the years, but they never were damaged so badly that they needed repair. A little foot damage that goes away as soon as you set fire to them, etc....guess that's about it.

I'd heard about guys using pectin to repair cigars before; never occurred to me to ask a B&M to do it for me.

[Doctorossi]

Whether or not that is the case is not the issue, but apparently something makes him feel that way and I'm not going to sit here and pretend to know what those reasons are so as to refute them.

Well, there is a gap between, "No one wants those." and "My customers haven't indicated much interest in those, but I'll note yours." and in that gap lies honesty, humility and customer service. :2

[T.G]

Well, there is a gap between, "No one wants those." and "My customers haven't indicated much interest in those, but I'll note yours." and in that gap lies honesty, humility and customer service. :2


I wasn't aware that you were there to witness the conversation.

[TheStatsGuy]

The guy/owner was right that he would need to carry more than what he probablly had of Tat products in order to even get considered for the "limited stuff". I just looked at the Tat catalog and it's quite an extensive list. Your talking some serious money and space to get all the Tat products in house. Granted you probably don't have to carry everything in order to get some "limited" boxes like the Wolfman. Don't know how Pete picks them out or if his reps do it for him.

The guy should have gave a smile and noted your interest for future Tat products. The customer service seems to have been lacking and apparently it spills over to the humidor.

When I find damaged cigars during inventory at my local I simply put them aside to be fixed and then tuck them away to get smoked by the owner and staff when they feel like a smoke. More cigars can be ordered to replace the damaged ones and customers should always leave with the best you have to offer, imho.

[bobarian]

I must be missing something because I see nothing wrong with the worker's statements in the OP.

If you add up all the members of all the online cigar communities, we are still but a miniscule percentage of the buying public. The vast majority dont smoke Tatuaje products at all much less seek out their limited releases. Most cigar smokers buy a few sticks on Friday for the weekend or for a round of golf and that's it. No humidor, no beads, nothing.

As far as repairs, it sounds like he is performing a service for his customer. Beetle holes are no big deal, once you see the hole the beetle is gone. He is 100% right, most cigars you smoke have some remnants of beetles, larvae or eggs.

Here's a few tidbits from the FDA website.

Beer drinker?

"HOPS Insects
(AOAC 967.23) Average of more than 2,500 aphids per 10 grams

DEFECT SOURCE: Pre-harvest infestation
SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic"

10 grams of hops? I guess they disappear when its "cold-filtered" :r

PB&J

"PEANUT BUTTER Insect filth
(AOAC 968.35) Average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams
Rodent filth
(AOAC 968.35) Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams
Grit
(AOAC 968.35) Gritty taste and water insoluble inorganic residue is more than 25 mg per 100 grams

DEFECT SOURCE: Insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta, Grit - harvest contamination
SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic
PEANUT BUTTER Insect filth
(AOAC 968.35) Average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams
Rodent filth
(AOAC 968.35) Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams
Grit
(AOAC 968.35) Gritty taste and water insoluble inorganic residue is more than 25 mg per 100 grams

DEFECT SOURCE: Insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta, Grit - harvest contamination
SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic"

Mmm crunchy. :sh

[CigarNut]

Well.....I guess I'm the exception. In many years, and thousands of cigars and lots of travel, I've never beat up a cigar so badly that it needed repair. Sure, I've dropped a few over the years, but they never were damaged so badly that they needed repair. A little foot damage that goes away as soon as you set fire to them, etc....guess that's about it.

I'd heard about guys using pectin to repair cigars before; never occurred to me to ask a B&M to do it for me.I see it more frequently than I like -- and I do carry pectin and have lent it to BOTLs many times...

[Doctorossi]

I wasn't aware that you were there to witness the conversation.

I wasn't aware that I needed to be present in order to comment on the OP's description of the conversation. I pretty much figured that "unless the OP is misrepresenting the situation" was a caveat implicit in every response here. :sh

[Doctorossi]

If you add up all the members of all the online cigar communities, we are still but a miniscule percentage of the buying public. The vast majority don't smoke Tatuaje products at all much less seek out their limited releases. Most cigar smokers buy a few sticks on Friday for the weekend or for a round of golf and that's it. No humidor, no beads, nothing.

Of course Tatuaje buyers are a small percentage of the cigar market-at-large, but the question here is about the interest in one of the highest profile releases within the Tatuaje market, not the larger market. This guy is a Tatuaje dealer- his Tatuaje customers are necessarily interested in Tatuaje product. For this guy to imagine he has a viable market for Tatuaje items, but not one for the current hottest Tatuaje item is just kind of odd.

[OLS]

"I'd have to order hundreds of boxes of stuff I don't want in order to get one box of limited editions...it's just not worth the trouble"
This is true, I am sure. I feel for the guy and he can certainly do what he wants.
I mean, he's got guys opening tubos in his humidor, for cryin out loud. :r

Most of these guys' backs are already against the wall, anyway. I would certainly
vote with my feet, but that's not to say he is a terrible retailer. It's a tough racket.
Lots of sophisticated smokers buy online for the most part, anyway.

[T.G]

I wasn't aware that I needed to be present in order to comment on the OP's description of the conversation. I pretty much figured that "unless the OP is misrepresenting the situation" was a caveat implicit in every response here. :sh

I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you have said in theory, but without the transcript and specific context in which it was said along with having access to detailed knowledge of his customer base and their desires, agreeing in specifics requires too many assumptions for me.

[icehog3]

I eat peanut butter every day. Thanks a lot, Bob. :mad:

[Ratters]

I'd like to see the Venn diagram indicating the percentage of Tatuaje customers not interested in the Wolfman- I'd imagine it's pretty miniscule. If this guy thinks "nobody wants the Wolfman", why is he carrying Tatuaje in the first place?

As for the mold, it's a little extra distressing to discover it inside a tubo, though that may indicate a problem further up the distribution chain.

I bet a ven diagram of his customer's wishes and those wanting Wolfmans would be miniscule. 90% of cigar smokers smoke General/Altadis stuff, just want something mild that smokes well, and usually does it when golfing or for some get together. People who really obsess over cigars and chase limited releases are a vast vast minority in the world of cigar smokers. Most of the cigar shops around here carry only a tiny amount of boutique smokes, really only one has a good selection, and they all do just fine. I go to the one with the boutique smokes even though it's a bit farther away because that's what I smoke and it's an all around good shop. But most smokers just don't care.

[Ratters]

Of course Tatuaje buyers are a small percentage of the cigar market-at-large, but the question here is about the interest in one of the highest profile releases within the Tatuaje market, not the larger market. This guy is a Tatuaje dealer- his Tatuaje customers are necessarily interested in Tatuaje product. For this guy to imagine he has a viable market for Tatuaje items, but not one for the current hottest Tatuaje item is just kind of odd.

Not at all. I know a shop that carries Tats and couldn't care less about limited releases. It's just another brand to him. In fact he was blowing them out because they don't sell very well. Again, most smokers don't want things strong and spicy, they just want a nice mild smoke while enjoying some other activity.

[loki]

For this guy to imagine he has a viable market for Tatuaje items, but not one for the current hottest Tatuaje item is just kind of odd.
won't there be another one of those next week?

[RCS44]

Patching up beetle holes??? I have never heard of anyone doing that, nor would i consider doing such a thing.

[bobarian]

I eat peanut butter every day. Thanks a lot, Bob. :mad:

:r;s That's why I prefer crunchy! :banger

[brigey57]

I'm surprised since it sounds like they have a large and expensive inventory of grate stogies, which if infected, would be ruined. Was it one of the workers or clerks who just doesn't care or was it the owner; who I would hope would know if he has a beetle problem and would be trying to do something to get rid of the problem.

It seems to me IMHO that there should be someone there who really cares about what they have on the shelve and what's in stock. ;s to hear of such a horrible story!

[ApexAZ]

Hah. I've smoked sticks with beetles (a few) in them. I remember this one time when I was new I had lit a cigar and I kept hearing this popping at the foot. About an inch downward a beetle started working its way out of the cigar, I thought to myself, "oh no you don't sucker" I pushed its ass back in and smoked it. It gave a satisfying pop when it died.

I don't remember this changing my cigar any.

I suppose that is one method of eradication. Wow.

[theonlybear4CORT]

I have nipples Greg can u milk me?
Posted via Mobile Device

[CoreyD]

The local B&M in my town tosses the cigars I find a hole in and even inspects boxes it was in and near. But it is very few rare occasions I even find a hole but if I do they are great protectors.

[slimboli]

I have nipples Greg can u milk me?
Posted via Mobile Device
Got Milk ???

[w squared]

I was in a B+M in Seattle where the owner had decided that he was going to leave a couple boxes with some particularily bad beetle damage in his walk-in. When I pointed them out to him, he said "don't worry, I'll just send them back to the manufacturer and get the money back". He didn't seem at all concerned over leaving a box with obvious beetle damage (and the associated eggs) inside his walk-in with the rest of his stock.

Needless to say, I didn't purchase anything from him.

[OLS]

Patching up beetle holes??? I have never heard of anyone doing that, nor would i consider doing such a thing.
Be more specific...maybe not a retailer, but I just did it the other day. I smoked a cigar with
beetle holes, and it would not draw unless I covered up the holes. People do that all the time.

[Doctorossi]

Not at all. I know a shop that carries Tats and couldn't care less about limited releases. It's just another brand to him. In fact he was blowing them out because they don't sell very well. Again, most smokers don't want things strong and spicy, they just want a nice mild smoke while enjoying some other activity.

That just says to me that that particular shop owner hasn't really connected with the Tatuaje market. If you ask Tatuaje fans- the people who go to a shop because it has Tatuaje- if they're interested in the Wolfman, I'd bet most will say 'yes'.

[Doctorossi]

won't there be another one of those next week?

I'm not here to defend Tatuaje's business model- it is what it is. I'm just saying that it's kind of weird for someone to think his customers want Tats but don't want the hot new Tats.

[Blak Smyth]

I'm not here to defend Tatuaje's business model- it is what it is. I'm just saying that it's kind of weird for someone to think his customers want Tats but don't want the hot new Tats.

I go to a shop just because it has Tats.
In fact I don't go to a certain shop because the shop owner refuses to carry Tats. He told me he won't go after distributers, they must come to him. I am a customer and he is losing me because he doesn't care enough to stock what I want.:td

[ktblunden]

As to the mold, did you let him know about it? The answer to that can be a pretty good indication of how much they care about their products. If he shrugs his shoulders or quickly breaks out the, "It's plume" line I would give them a wide berth in the future. If he has you show him the affected sticks and takes care to remove them from inventory, I would have a lot more trust for the shop.

[Doctorossi]

I go to a shop just because it has Tats.
In fact I don't go to a certain shop because the shop owner refuses to carry Tats. He told me he won't go after distributers, they must come to him. I am a customer and he is losing me because he doesn't care enough to stock what I want.:td

This experience is sadly familiar to me.

[RevSmoke]

I have seen a couple cigar shops which are simply there for the owner's sake. He gets his own cigars at a discounted price (the reason he opened the place) and the prices on his sticks are such that he covers his own cigars and the cost of overhead. It is also often just a place the owner can go to have a smoke, as he isn't allowed to smoke at home. Oftentimes, they add other things to sell in the store (other than cigars) in an effort to make money so that it doesn't solely rely upon the selling of premium cigars.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[Sherlockholms]

So I stopped into a B&M that's just blocks away from where I work a couple a days a week. They carry Tatuaje and the Hemmingway Work of Art, so I figured I'd poke in, ask about Wolfman, see if they have Tatuaje Black, and maybe pick up a short story and Work of Art.

While I was poking around there, I saw they had some Opus X Lost City. Expensive, but it's nice to know they were there...so I open up the tubo, only to find it spotted with mold. I tried to brush it off to see if it was just "bloom" from the oils, and no, it was a white mold. I found several other sticks around there looking the same way. That's disappointing, especially on such nice sticks..

So on my way out, I'm asking about Tatuaje stuff, and was flat out told that nobody really wants the Wolfman stuff, so he didn't even bother asking for it. As he's telling me this, he's "repairing" several sticks that clearly have beetle holes in them, by gluing bits of wrapper over the holes using a typical vegi glue used on cigar bands.

So I inquire, "these aren't for sale, are they?". He says "No, I'm repairing these for a customer". Then I'm like, "but they have beetles", and he says, "all cigars have beetles, you've probably been smoking them for years". I say "any cigar can have beetle's eggs, but if they hatch, you're smoking beetle crap!" and he pauses...shrugs and says "more protein".

So, this reputable local shop, I think just lost my business. :gary



That is Crazy! Some people just do not understand certain aspects of The cigar hobby.

[bobarian]

That is Crazy! Some people just do not understand certain aspects of The cigar hobby.

The majority of cigar shops do not exist to service the hobby. Hobbyists are but a small percentage of any market including cigars. An enthusiast or hobbyist will seek out the limited or hard to find item, but usually shows no loyalty to a particular retailer. The shop owner on the other hand is interested in regular, long term customers, those who come in every week and buy a few smokes or even a box for a special occasion.

In California, our tobacco taxes are extremely high, yet at event after event I see people buying boxes that are 20-30% over internet cost. They buy because they are loyal to the shop and dont have the time or inclination to check pricing. Most dont care how much CI or Famous might discount the same box. They also have the disposable income to support this kind of buying.

[chaase321]

Everything said here are the EXACT reasons why I go to a B&M to get a "sampling" of different cigars to smoke. You can examine everyone one of them! I do not go to purchase a box of cigars (mainly because they are over priced) when I can get them online from a reputable dealer that will refund me if there are issues.

Unfortunately, just like any other business...80% of them are in it for a profit, not for loyalty.

[OLS]

I agree with Bobarian and I will butcher his statement to bend it towards mine. There are reams of threads about
people who hate their B&Ms because of A or B, but relatively few if any by people who are going to start a B&M to
fill the niche they feel is not being properly served. It's a brutal business, with some of the most intense internet
competition that exists. They are not in business to cater to your every need, and the ones that DO often can't
make a go at it for long. You can't be all things to all people and this is a free country where you are invited to
open your own $*&(&%& shop, lol. The bottom line continues to be, shop where you feel best served. Horror
stories about B&Ms are nothing new. Most of these guys could care less where you shop. Have you noticed that?
;)

[Doctorossi]

It's a brutal business, with some of the most intense internet competition that exists.

Just one more reason to make the customers that you are privileged enough to see enter your shop feel heard and serviced, even if you don't have what they're looking for at the moment... right?

The intensity of competition is cause for more customer service, not less. :2

[shilala]

I recently visited a cigar shop here in Ohio that had a giant walk in humidor that was slap full of empty boxes. I mean literally hundreds of boxes with nothing in them, all displayed proudly.
I managed to find five or six boxes that actually had cigars in them, they were right by the door on the way out of the walk-in. I didn't buy anything there because there was nothing to buy, and I felt bad about it. It's puzzled me for a couple months now, I can't figure out for the life of me what's going on there.

I try to buy a box every time I visit a B&M, which isn't often because I can't find any. When I find a nice one, I try to grab everything I can afford, and usually find the prices to be right in line with online outfits (PA and OH).
I often grab stuff that I know guys here will want, too.
I do it because without the B&M's, a huge part of this hobby is lost. I don't even go there to buy a cigar. I go there to smoke a cigar and meet people and enjoy myself. That has huge value to me, and if a box costs a few more bucks, or singles cost a few more bucks, so be it. It's a value-added premium that is well worth the money.
I've not found cigars to cost more, anyways. The B&M's I've visited have always offered a discount on multiple stick/box purchases and I usually find awesome closeout deals.

[Ratters]

That just says to me that that particular shop owner hasn't really connected with the Tatuaje market. If you ask Tatuaje fans- the people who go to a shop because it has Tatuaje- if they're interested in the Wolfman, I'd bet most will say 'yes'.

My point is that for every Tat "fan" walking through the door, there are hundreds of customers who aren't. He is in business to make money, and searching out a 1% market just isn't in his interest. The shop I go to is interested in boutique cigars and that's why I go there. But I don't bash the other shops for not doing it, they aren't in business to serve just my needs. If they find they can run a servicable business with more common cigars, I have no problem with it, I just don't shop there.

[theonlybear4CORT]

My point is that for every Tat "fan" walking through the door, there are hundreds of customers who aren't. He is in business to make money, and searching out a 1% market just isn't in his interest. The shop I go to is interested in boutique cigars and that's why I go there. But I don't bash the other shops for not doing it, they aren't in business to serve just my needs. If they find they can run a servicable business with more common cigars, I have no problem with it, I just don't shop there.

Well said.