Supplements

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

I'm starting to get back into the gym. I could afford to drop some weight for sure, but I'm also looking to gain more muscle. I'm wondering what supplements would work best with my goal. I'm want to drop weight, so I'm on a cardio program which includes lots of running. I want to gain muscle, so I'm hitting the weights again. Do I stick to just protein, or what else can help with my goal? I don't want to swell, just want lose weight and gain muscle. I can elaborate further, just ask. Thanks fellas.

[area51]

Protein, proper diet, proper rest will help you reach your goal. There are things on the market that could speed up the process but arent really necessary IMHO.

You could look into creatine if you choose so as well.

[Chainsaw13]

I started taking both Protein and creatine after my workouts to help with recovery. Like you, I'm not looking to get bulked up, but I do want some definition. I have noticed a difference after taking it. I don't feel sore the next day like I did before the supplements. I've recently incorporated a multi-vitamin daily. I do eat a varied, good diet but know I can't get it all, all the time.

[zemekone]

protien, glutamine, good multiple vitamin, and a gallon of water a day...

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

protien, glutamine, good multiple vitamin, and a gallon of water a day...

Can you recommend some good brands? Any good online sources? I have a GNC close to me, but if there are better sources out there, I'd buy from them.

[area51]

Protein I always recommend Optimum Nutrition.

www.A1supplements.com
www.lyonsproteinsource.com

[Chainsaw13]

Im using the Optimum Nutrition stuff right now. The double rich chocolate protein tastes really good. Check out Amazon for the best prices.

[area51]

:tpd:

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Is 4 grams of Glut a good amount? It looks like that is what's in the ON brand.

[Bill86]

I use the Syntha-6 Protein, I've had maybe 5-6 kinds but these to me taste the best. I think I had Vanilla Ice cream or something like that.

I also used the Cellmass for a bit and like the combination. Grape was the one I tried, pretty damn good.

I need to order more.

[kaisersozei]

I use the Syntha-6 Protein, I've had maybe 5-6 kinds but these to me taste the best. I think I had Vanilla Ice cream or something like that.


I like BSN Syntha-6 as well. If I'm not mistaken, it has glutamine already in the product. As part of my recovery, I do an Endurox (Accelerade, I think) + BCAA shake (I just use the GNC brand.) This helps my old muscles, can definitely feel the difference without it.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Well I've done a bit of reading/research last night. I will be getting all my stuff from O.N.. My whey, glut, bcaa, and my multi vit.

I was confused a bit on the Amino Energy from ON and also the BCAA from them. Does the Amino Energy contain the same quantity of bcaa's as the regular bcaa powder from ON? Either way, I don't really need the extra caffeine, so I'm just getting the regular BCAA powder.

[icehog3]

No, I believe the Amino Energy loses some of the BCAAs with the other ingredients. I was given a free sample a month or so ago, and have been using it since then before hockey games. If you don't need the boost, stick to the regular BCAAs, Nate.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

No, I believe the Amino Energy loses some of the BCAAs with the other ingredients. I was given a free sample a month or so ago, and have been using it since then before hockey games. If you don't need the boost, stick to the regular BCAAs, Nate.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too.

ON products are a bit more expensive than others in the market, but people rave about the quality.

[icehog3]

I love the Whey protein, and have had good luck with the BCAAs and creatine. I wouldn't use the Amino Energy so much before lifting (prefer Hemo-Rage, White Fllod or Jack3d), but it is good for hockey. Pretty good quality across the board.

[J0eybb]

I use Orange Triad.

[zemekone]

Is 4 grams of Glut a good amount? It looks like that is what's in the ON brand.

you can take up to 30g-40g a day...

[chachee52]

You could look into creatine if you choose so as well.

I would avoid creatine at all cost. Part of my Exercise Physiology degree was a research study on this stuff specificly. Your body already produces creatine and if you have a good diet it produces enough for your body. By taking extra you are telling your body not to produce it. Most brands tell you to take X amount which is 100% of daily recomended amout, others are higher than 100%. Either way if you intake 100% and your body is making some, then you are literally pissing the rest away, which is putting strain on your kindeys. The studies had shown mayn cases where the kidneys were so over loaded that they had significant damage and were approaching failure. And when the person stopped taking creatine your body did not start making creatine (not a good thing) for "an extended period of time (it's been wa while since I did the research, don't remember the mean time frame)


So I guess my advice would be eat a balanced diet, and do not take supplements that say that it's 100% or higher of the daily dose. You will either just piss it out or it will store in your body no one realy knows what that will cause in the future yet.

:2

[icehog3]

I would be curious to see these studies where "many cases where the kidneys were so over loaded that they had significant damage and were approaching failure.", due to creatine supplementation. I have read several studies, and this seems one of the more extreme that I have heard of.

[RobR1205]

Yes! my kinda post! I was always the skinniest kid growing up. When I joined the CG, I started working out 3-5 times a week. In about 10 months, my weight has jumped from 165 pounds to 191 pounds, and I'm exactly 6 feet tall. I'm pretty pleased with the results, and am striving to build even more muscle...hopefully around 200-210.

You just gotta stay motivated and dedicatd to a routine, and I was ale to do that by going to the gym with someone who shared a similar goal. My secret, least lots, but eat healthy. Your body needs lots of carbs and proteins to be able to recover and build muscle properly, but 50g of carbs from a soda is certainly not the same as 50g of carbs from say, whole wheat pasta. Sleep is a big thing too, you build muscle at night when you sleep, not in the gym.

I've been taking mass gainers (true mass by ON) to up my calorie intake. Since I'm so active, my physician said consuming up to 4500 calories in a single day is absolutely necessary.

Additionally, I've enjoyed taking whey protein isolate/concentrate from brands like myoplex and ON. They taste relatively good, so you don't have to hold your nose when you knock it back after the gym! If you want to build muscle, dietologists recommend 0.9- 1.4 grams per pound per day (not all at once though)

Creatine. It may get a bad rep, but I've never had any problems with it it terms of health. There a lot of myths surround it, but as long as you talk to your doctor, you should be fine. I recommend about 5 grams, twice per day ( before and after workout). Drink lots of water because it allows your cells to expand and retain water. Prosource brand creatine is 99.9% pure, and costs about $13 for 100 servings!

Those are my three main supplements. I've dabbled in the world of expensive preworkout supplements, but I've found that the main ingredients are really Arginine, Caffeine, and beta-alanine. I supplement these ingredients before a workout in pill form because they are WAY cheaper than buying something like NO-Xplode.

Sorry for the long post! But I hope this helps! Feel free to personal message me whenever if you have questions. I'm no expert, but I've read many books, taken the classes, and trying stuff out on my own, so I've found what works and doesn't for me. Best of luck!!

[Blak Smyth]

I am drinking Ximo right now, this stuff suplements air and water and is the life force of the universe in a neatly packaged bottle. It is the strongest ephedra drink you can get (If you can get it). My number 2 would have been Ephedra Tea before they changed it, if you can find it with the black caps and not the clear ones it should be the OR.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSkcSj5iSjpS42yet8Hcog7gAhQ7X9W lWNUTU-6osS6GuZLWj9-Ahttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRS6B_NJVS04Yf3BtGEw3Mpd8WnaTuEk b2Iw1Y0IDjDEXd80XM1sQ

These are supplemental energy drinks without all the sugars and chemicals found in most energy drinks. But these are also about 10x stronger.

[chachee52]

I would be curious to see these studies where "many cases where the kidneys were so over loaded that they had significant damage and were approaching failure.", due to creatine supplementation. I have read several studies, and this seems one of the more extreme that I have heard of.

It's been a while since I did that reseach (back in '99-'00) Have no clue if I still have that research around. But this was the case. This was also in the time that creatine was at the top of the "crazy". So a lot of people were saying "well if a little of this makes me do good, more will make me do better". I don't see/hear this as much any more.
Believe it or not there have been cases of ointments like BioFreeze and Tiger Balm that have caused death in over dosing with them even if it is a topical ointment. If you take anything that is over what your body can uptake than there will be consiquences.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,279482,00.html (there was also a case I remember in MA a year or two later, couldn't find the article quickly)
Just remember supplements are not governed by any agency. And because they are fairly new, there aren't too many long term independant studies out there.

[icehog3]

Todd, I will agree severe overuse of most supplements can cause issues. I thought your first post seemed to imply that normal creatine use was causing numerous cases of kidney failure...if I misread, I apologize.

I use Biofreeze from time to time on osteoarthritis on my wrist....looks like I am a human recipe for disaster. :)

[PuffPuffGive1]

In my opinion and it actually works best for me; whole food is best. I used to take anything and everything under the sun besides roids and or any of the HGH products, and I saw little improvement as far as my physique went. When I decided to drop all supplements (protein, multivitamins, pre-workouts, etc.) and have 4 square meals a day that consisted of plenty of protein, carbs and a good amount of healthy fat; I was finally happy with the way I look after months of hard work. So I would suggest having whole food and limiting the amount of supplements you intake.

[icehog3]

I agree that whole foods are most important, Alan. I eat good protein, low carbs (of a whole grain or natural souce) and low fat. I use supplements to give me an extra edge beyond a solid diet.

[chachee52]

Todd, I will agree severe overuse of most supplements can cause issues. I thought your first post seemed to imply that normal creatine use was causing numerous cases of kidney failure...if I misread, I apologize.

I use Biofreeze from time to time on osteoarthritis on my wrist....looks like I am a human recipe for disaster. :)

In my opinion with creatine and any supplement for that matter, anything over 100% of your daily recomended amount is too much. I went into a GNC the other day, my friend was looking for an herb supplement for migrains, and there was a muscle buider that had 1000% of the daily amount!!!!! Your body is not designed to uptake this, it has to go somewhere, it either is water soluable like creatine and gets flushed through the kidneys hense over loading them, or gets stored in fat and who knows what that will cause later in life.
As for the Biofreeze, the case in MA specifically, the runner used it first thing in the AM, lunch, right before running, after running, before dinner, before going to bed, and who knows how many other times. The point is did you realize that it's a drug and can be over used?

[emopunker2004]

can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic?

[PuffPuffGive1]

can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic?

I hear the one from USP Labs (the makers of Jack3d) is pretty good...but that's what I hear; can't tell you first hand cause was always afraid of it messing up my liver :D

[the nub]

can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic?

I've tried ephedrine and caffeine stack and it works amazingly well. Here's a link on dosage. Disregard pics of hot chicks. :)

http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm

May not be for everyone so do your research to see if you may have potential complications as with any supplement. Of course, if you don't figure out your cutting cals then it won't work but it does a great job at curbing appetite. Do a google search for ephedrine substitutes- Bronkaid is one but I think there are a couple of other over the counter meds.

[area51]

Welcome to the forum?!

[hammondc]

Talk to me about BCAAs and Glutamine.....

I do weight training (mostly upper body)3 times a week. I also do cardio 3 times a week. One day off.

I understand that doing the cardio undermines my attempts to gain muscle mass because my body will cannibalize the muscle during hard cardio sessions. I am not trying to bench 400 lbs, I am trying to look good so long lean muscle is what I seek.

The monkey at GNC tried to sell me on BCAA & Glutamine stating they would prevent the cannibalization of muscle. While he may be 100% accurate, my experience is that the GNC do not always have my best interests in mind.

[zemekone]

Can you recommend some good brands? Any good online sources? I have a GNC close to me, but if there are better sources out there, I'd buy from them.

if you are gonna go the GNC route it may be a tad more expensive, but i like the GNC mega men sport multi, Optimum Nutrition protein, the GNC brand glutamine or whatever is the cheapest unflavored powder. sorry this is late

[zemekone]

The monkey at GNC tried to sell me on BCAA & Glutamine stating they would prevent the cannibalization of muscle. While he may be 100% accurate, my experience is that the GNC do not always have my best interests in mind.

he is right, it dose help preserve the muscle while you do cardio... you can take up to 10g of BCAA 3 times a day, and in a glutamine study doctors were giving AIDS and Cancer patients 30g-40g of glutamine a day to prest wasting away

[hammondc]

Thanks a bunch Gerry. I may load up on both from A1. Decent prices on the Optimum brand stuff. Or...just find a protein that has them built in.

[zemekone]

Thanks a bunch Gerry. I may load up on both from A1. Decent prices on the Optimum brand stuff.

welcome sir

[hammondc]

Time for me to re-up my protein.

I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none?

Do you think it would be better to

1. Get a Protein with heavy Glutamine/BCAA built like GNC Wheybolic 60 or Optimum Hydrowhey/Pro Complex

or

2. Get a plain multipurpose protein line Gold Standard and spend the extra $ to supplement BCAA and Glutamine in pill/powder form?

Also. I have been introduced to the term broscience. As in---> there is a lot of marketing hype behind whey hydrolizing etc in HydroWhey/GNC Wheybolic, but it really does not matter or it makes such a small difference that no one other than professional body builders will get the advantage.

One more...where do u guys buy your protein? I have heard it can be cheaper on the ol interwebz, but I am not familiar with who to order from.

[zemekone]

I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none?


i would go with all three seperate... BCAA powder before or during your workout, protein right after your workout, and 10-20g glutamine before you go to sleep.

i would go tigerfitness, DPS nutrition, or bodybuilding...

[Adriftpanda]

Time for me to re-up my protein.

I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none?

Do you think it would be better to

1. Get a Protein with heavy Glutamine/BCAA built like GNC Wheybolic 60 or Optimum Hydrowhey/Pro Complex

or

2. Get a plain multipurpose protein line Gold Standard and spend the extra $ to supplement BCAA and Glutamine in pill/powder form?

Also. I have been introduced to the term broscience. As in---> there is a lot of marketing hype behind whey hydrolizing etc in HydroWhey/GNC Wheybolic, but it really does not matter or it makes such a small difference that no one other than professional body builders will get the advantage.

One more...where do u guys buy your protein? I have heard it can be cheaper on the ol interwebz, but I am not familiar with who to order from.

I buy my protein through bodybuilding.com, they are fast and much cheaper than anywhere else.

As far as protein goes I try to stick with something that is high in protein and less in carbs and fats. To me, when taking protein, it should just be protein and nothing else because I getting your fats and carb is simple. I take Hydrobolic FX made by Muscle FX. One of the purest form of protein, that I could fine (93% protein).

Forgot to mention I also take a casein protein (ON) as well before bed.

[hammondc]

Thanks Huy. The Casein is kinda what I was talking about with BroScience. Does it really matter if it is slow digesting/fast digesting. I'll look at Hydrobolic as I agree with you on fat/cals and cholesterol is a hang up for me. My family has chunky blood in the genes, so even as clean as i eat, i still have elevated Cholesterol.

[mosesbotbol]

Beyond a good multi, 1000 mg of Omega3, I would highly recommend:

Copper and zinc supplements are essential for fitness and muscle growth. They are not advertised much because there’s little profit in them. Take them daily in the morning. Cinnamon capsules are great to help regulate insulin; also inexpensive.

[hammondc]

I already do a multi-V and Omega3.

[hotreds]

Should one take the BCAAs and Glut only on work out days or everyday?

[zemekone]

Should one take the BCAAs and Glut only on work out days or everyday?

yes take everyday, both BCAA and glutamine help spare muscle while off also glutamine raises your immune system...

[icehog3]

yes take everyday, both BCAA and glutamine help spare muscle while off also glutamine raises your immune system...

I want to take some samples, geRRy. :(

[moxpatri]

Protein I always recommend Optimum Nutrition.

www.A1supplements.com
www.lyonsproteinsource.com

Check this out too - https://nutrisbook.com

[Brian D.]

So prime health blog, have you ever taken "supplements" in a Turkish prison?

[icehog3]

So prime health blog, have you ever taken "supplements" in a Turkish prison?

Miss your meds this morning Brian? -(P

[markem]

Miss your meds this morning Brian? -(P

I live to entertain! :noon

[bonjing]

Hopefully I’m understanding this correctly. BCAAs help with muscle recovery? I’ve been using genius-pre, no caffeine and just started my bcaa. The genius bcaa has caffeine, my fault for not reading it, so I take it after my lunchtime nap. I then take the pre before class at 1830hrs and do some lifting after. Does it matter when I take the bcaa? Is there a good tasting bcaa without stimulants that you guys like?

[mosesbotbol]

Lay off the booze and avoid food that is processed. Allow eating for only an 8 hour window of the day.

You'll burn more fat lifting weights than doing cardio. Cardio is still necessary for aerobic capacity, maintain blood pressure, removing toxins, and other reasons.

For simple protein after a workout; try a couple of hard boiled eggs. Pre-cook chicken breasts and have those handy for a quick bite.

Make sure you are consuming at least 2 liters of water every day. General guide line is an ounce per pound of body weight daily.

Get up early. People who get up around 5 AM tend to be in better shape; for a reason.

[AdamJoshua]

Lunchtime nap??? :lr

[bonjing]

Lay off the booze and avoid food that is processed. Allow eating for only an 8 hour window of the day.

You'll burn more fat lifting weights than doing cardio. Cardio is still necessary for aerobic capacity, maintain blood pressure, removing toxins, and other reasons.

For simple protein after a workout; try a couple of hard boiled eggs. Pre-cook chicken breasts and have those handy for a quick bite.

Make sure you are consuming at least 2 liters of water every day. General guide line is an ounce per pound of body weight daily.

Get up early. People who get up around 5 AM tend to be in better shape; for a reason.

Yeah I have a problem with gorging on the weekends. Whatever I lose during the week is slapped on over the weekend. M-F pretty decent eating during the week. Overnight oats for breakfast a few protein drinks, meal replacement, throughout the day. Workout is muay thai followed by lifting. After the gym is another protein shake and a yogurt. I get home around 2100hrs so no eating. Water intake is pretty good about a gallon a day 4 x 32oz and 4 x 20oz a day. I try to keep up that amount daily, but always a minimum of 3 per. That’s not including my coffee and preworkout drink. Add a 20oz coffee if you want a try total. I always have two thermos’

I would really like something to help the body recover from all the impacts, clinching and cardio. My first week or so in, I had a knot in my thigh for about a week from exchanging kicks.

Lunchtime nap??? :lr

Don’t hate on my afternoon nap man, they’re the best. :gary:D Except when the crazy homeless lady won’t stop screaming. I’d swear she was a drill instructor at one point, how else can you yell for at least an hour non stop.

[icehog3]

Does it matter when I take the bcaa? Is there a good tasting bcaa without stimulants that you guys like?

I haven't taken BCAAs for a minute now, but when I did I would take them different ways. Before the workout to have some in my system as I tore down; after for recovery; before bedtime instead of solid protein.

I like the Optimum Nutrition unflavored for quality.



Get up early. People who get up around 5 AM tend to be in better shape; for a reason.

Yeah, I rarely got up before 8:30 and I was pretty jacked. :r

[mosesbotbol]

I would really like something to help the body recover from all the impacts, clinching and cardio. My first week or so in, I had a knot in my thigh for about a week from exchanging kicks.

Have you had your hormones, red blood cell count, and mineral balances checked? All of those play heavily into getting into shape and recovery.

Higher in-range hematocrit count is like night and day doing cardio.

Look into a men's health center and get a base line on all you blood values that are particular to men.

[icehog3]

Yeah, I rarely got up before 8:30 and I was pretty jacked. :r

Nothing, Moses? Really? ;) :lr

[mosesbotbol]

Nothing, Moses? Really? ;) :lr

What time did you go to bed?

Once you get up there in age you cannot hang with the owls and rise with robins.

[Chainsaw13]

Higher in-range hematocrit count is like night and day doing cardio.


Can you expound on that a bit? My hematocrit runs high naturally (51.5 last week). I have to get it monitored regularly in case I need to have a blood draw to bring it down.

[mosesbotbol]

Can you expound on that a bit? My hematocrit runs high naturally (51.5 last week). I have to get it monitored regularly in case I need to have a blood draw to bring it down.

If you were in the lower 40's and went to 51.5; you'd know the difference. Very noticeable.

51.5 will have banned from the Tour de France unless you can prove that it is your natural level in what the UCI calls a Biological Passport.

[icehog3]

What time did you go to bed?

Once you get up there in age you cannot hang with the owls and rise with robins.

Worked 'til 10PM, wound down with a cigar after that.

What age would that be? I'm still doing the owl thing, and never chose to rise with them robins. :r

[Chainsaw13]

If you were in the lower 40's and went to 51.5; you'd know the difference. Very noticeable.

51.5 will have banned from the Tour de France unless you can prove that it is your natural level in what the UCI calls a Biological Passport.

Interesting, good thing I don’t plan on entering the TDF. :D

My blood doc has run a few different tests to see what’s causing mine to run so high. I know cigar smoking does elevate it. but even on a 12 week break, it was still 50+. At least it’s not the worst type of polycythemia. That had me concerned until it was ruled out.