The Whiskey God has smiled....

[spectrrr]

Cleaning out the attic in my parents house and found this!

Now the tough decision - open and explore, or sell it as is! Does anyone have some knowledge of its value? Or even how old it is?


http://i.imgur.com/VHJE0l.jpg (http://imgur.com/VHJE0)


http://i.imgur.com/a8hcil.jpg (http://imgur.com/a8hci)


http://i.imgur.com/lKNQcl.jpg (http://imgur.com/lKNQc)

[hotreds]

Hey- it's "whisky", leave out the "e!" I'd open it and see what's in it! Might give you an idea of age.

[pektel]

It's just me, but I'd drink it. Open that case up!
Posted via Mobile Device

[spectrrr]

Hey- it's "whisky", leave out the "e!" I'd open it and see what's in it! Might give you an idea of age.

o chit, good catch! And i call myself a scotch drinker...


It's just me, but I'd drink it. Open that case up!
Posted via Mobile Device

depends how good it is and how much its worth. I'll sell it and trade it for a premium 20+ yr bottle any day of the week :)

[Tyler]

I wish my parents had that kinda sh!t in the attic lol.

[Brutus2600]

Wow...that's impressive. I'm curious to see the contents inside!

[Bill86]

Why can't I find crates of booze......

:sad

[cort]

Open that sumb!tch, Francis!!!!!!!!!

[pnoon]

Bring it with you to San Diego and open that sumb!tch, Francis!!!!!!!!!

fixed it.
:wo

Nice find, Francis. Even if you sell it, you HAVE to save at least one bottle for yourself to drink. :2

[BC-Axeman]

It's toxic! You better send it to me for proper disposal.

[Barcode]

I would have to open it just so the cat would not get killed. :D

[Don Fernando]

send the pictures to the distributer or the factory, maybe they can provide you with more information

[Weelok]

There are some good times in that crate waiting to happen!

[Patrick B]

Awesome. Open it!

[Don Fernando]

it just hit me. Francis, there's only one propper thing to do. Bring the crate to EPIC!

[spectrrr]

it just hit me. Francis, there's only one propper thing to do. Bring the crate to EPIC!

yeah, cant wait to try and get that thing on the airplane :r

[GreekGodX]

I would try going to Glenlivet and seeing if they know anything. I would love to have found that. Or perhaps there's some whisky forums that you can look at? There's definitely whisky collectors out there.

[spectrrr]

i'm wondering if i can get it open with damaging it so i can find out what kind it is, and what condition the bottles are in...

[Don Fernando]

yeah, cant wait to try and get that thing on the airplane :r

ship it upfront, problem solved

[spectrrr]

ship it upfront, problem solved

but shipping would destroy it - cant imagine the rotting bottle seals would take that kinda abuse :P

[Don Fernando]

"handle with care, fragile"

http://t1.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/00/51/86/400_F_518608_QPC9fxG4MfTPLe6l3DexGCeRNgUQsA.jpg

Do I really have to think about everything Francis? ;)

[BigCat]

This is an awesome thing to find in an attic. As to value, I'm no expert, but it is going to depend on how rare the whisky is. Just as an example, about a month ago a friend of mine was cleaning out his office and came to me with a bottle of Canadian whiskey with a tax stamp from the 40s that a client had given him a few years ago. He didn't drink and gave it to me. I did a preliminary check on Google of what it might be worth just to make sure he wasn't giving away $1000 + without knowing. I figured it had to be worth something. It turned out that similar bottles were on ebay for $30 bucks or so. I think I found one suggestion that it might be worth $50. Bottom line was that it was not as rare as I originally thought. So I opened it up and have enjoyed it. It tastes similar to crown royal and it is kind of cool to drink something that was bottled during WWII.

[Doctorossi]

That is an awesome find! I definitely second the suggestion of inquiring with the distillery. Someone at Glenlivet can probably give you some age/distribution/provenance details from the crate stamp, without you even having to open the box.

[OLS]

One thing for sure, there is NO liquor Distributor on 569 S. 3rd Ave in Mt. Vernon NY anymore.
Looks like it's a "Bath FItters" now. So let's say that box goes back at least 20 years.
After adjusting the pic in photoshop, it LOOKS like it says "Major Liquor Dealers"..funny name.
NO Info on google about such a company. I am afraid I would have to KEEP IT. You may be able
to trade ONE BOTTLE for a bottle of 20 year old scotch if you find a person so inclined. That'd
leave you with 11 more AND your bottle of choice. You can use the bottles as schmooze for
individual favors, drink it, make bombs out of it for the great unrest that's coming Aug 2nd.
Plus, you should be able to get a hold of the nails somehow and pop off the top at minimum
without ruining it's value. What's inside packaging-wise, who knows. Judging solely by the
packaging, it's 35+ years old.

[BC-Axeman]

I was thinking the 64/86 may be the distilling/bottling date, or at least one of the numbers may be a date code. I like the idea of sending the pics to Glenlivet. It will be interesting to find out about this.

[N2 GOLD]

I was thinking the 64/86 may be the distilling/bottling date, or at least one of the numbers may be a date code. I like the idea of sending the pics to Glenlivet. It will be interesting to find out about this.

:tu Agree, send the folks at Glenlivet some pic's they might be able to shine some light on the age of that pot of gold...

[OLS]

Yeah, times 3 on that. Never thought of sending pix to the source. I can hear their response now.
"Ahh, sorry laddie, we don't DO email here, certainly can't open picture files, but that case of whisky is very likely
ruined, you'd best be sendin that back to us for immediate disposal..."

[jjmitchem]

Any more news on this? I am very intriged.

[Don Fernando]

:tpd:

[Hippiebrian]

I feel like that chick in that commercial...."open! open! open!"...

[hammondc]

Bump.............................................. ............................................

[BC-Axeman]

Yeah!^^^^

[spectrrr]

Any more news on this? I am very intriged.

well, I was unable to get a hold of Glenlivet directly, however I made a contact with a contact and they were able to get the pics under the right folks noses. It would seem the bottles have been dated to anytime after 1967, which is when that distributor because the normal one used. Given that its wooden crates, I can't imagine it to be dated much past 1967, so I'm gonna guess 1967-1975 range.

I'm still investigating options for selling it as a lot item and how much that might bring.

[cbsmokin]

These guys might be able to add some input on your find:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/index.php

[landhoney]

I'm still investigating options for selling it as a lot item and how much that might bring.

When you find out what it may be worth, please consider hosting a group buy here. :2

[GreekGodX]

When you find out what it may be worth, please consider hosting a group buy here. :2

I'm with Seth, I would definitely be interested.

[Doctorossi]

Me, too!

[BC-Axeman]

+1

[pektel]

+4

[spectrrr]

noted ;)

I'll probably dig into it it further come the middle of October.

[hammondc]

+5

[OLS]

And here we are, and still there be no resolution, arg.
Bump-tiddy-bump.

[spectrrr]

brewhahaha, tis' a coming... eventually :D

[LigaPrivadaT84]

Someone start a box split.
:tu

[SNKBYT]

+6 :al

[kelmac07]

Opennnnnnnnnnnnnn it...

[Zeuceone]

April fools.

[Mutombo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mutombo/whatsinthebox.jpg

[TheTraveler]

Time for a bump. Any further developments?

[spectrrr]

Still on the backburner :)

Working it's way up there however.. I'm guessing it will arrive at the top within the next month or two.

[Partagaspete]

I too would be interested in rhe group buy.

[OLS]

Frankly I am shocked that it has been less than a year since this was first posted. It seems like three years to me.

[BC-Axeman]

Frankly I am shocked that it has been less than a year since this was first posted. It seems like three years to me.
:tpd:

[Fordman4ever]

Can't wait to see how this turns out. It would be awesome to have one of those bottles.

[LockOut]

why is it not open already. been waiting on this for a while.

[area51]

Still waiting...

[Parshooter]

FYI - once whisk(e)y is bottled, the aging process stops, so this should (depending on storage conditions) taste the same as it did when it was bottled. Still a unique item, but not aged those 30+ years since bottled.

[spectrrr]

FYI - once whisk(e)y is bottled, the aging process stops, so this should (depending on storage conditions) taste the same as it did when it was bottled. Still a unique item, but not aged those 30+ years since bottled.

Exactly :)

[TheTraveler]

Almost 3.5 years later ..... what became of this whisky?

[dijit]

Interesting answer I received from an old family friend that retired from Jack Daniels. Said they used to label crates that way as well. The 64 for JD would be the year distilled. 86 the year bottled and the 232 the cask # or batch number if its a blended instead of single barrel. He did say JD stopped using wood crates prior to 86 and he thought most everyone in the industry did the same prior to then as well. So he finds it curios how I described this to him. He retired around 1990 and is almost as old as dirt so his memory may be off a little. I agree though what happened to this great find?

[G G]

If I am not mistaken didn't Francis move to Venezuela?

[dijit]

What and he took the crate with him!?!

[hotreds]

It must still be sitting somewhere in the good ole USA, waiting for him to return with his wife once she graduates from dental school. (IF he can even get out of Venezuela by then!)

[spectrrr]

Almost 3.5 years later ..... what became of this whisky?
Interesting answer I received from an old family friend that retired from Jack Daniels. Said they used to label crates that way as well. The 64 for JD would be the year distilled. 86 the year bottled and the 232 the cask # or batch number if its a blended instead of single barrel. He did say JD stopped using wood crates prior to 86 and he thought most everyone in the industry did the same prior to then as well. So he finds it curios how I described this to him. He retired around 1990 and is almost as old as dirt so his memory may be off a little. I agree though what happened to this great find?
It must still be sitting somewhere in the good ole USA, waiting for him to return with his wife once she graduates from dental school. (IF he can even get out of Venezuela by then!)

Almost 4 years later... TIME FOR AN UPDATE! :)

Well, it never made it off the backburner before I moved, so it's waiting back home with the rest of my things :) (planning on moving back to the USA in 3-4 months)

If I can find a buyer and sell it at a good price, I will. (assuming it's worth a "good" price). Since I could use the cash after I get back, I'll be more motivated to float the project to the top and get it appraised. If they don't turn out to be worth much, I'll just save money over the next few years on not buying whiskey, and drinking something with a great story behind it! :tu

At one time there must have existed more than one crate in the family. When my dad passed away in 2009, I found a half drunk bottle of the exact same stuff in his liquor cabinet. Since the bottle itself doesn't carry any particular identifying marks, I would never have known it was from the same vintage if I didn't have the crate bottles to compare to.

http://i.imgur.com/FC3z9l.jpg (http://imgur.com/FC3z9)
That was from the already opened bottle. All 12 crate bottles are unopened. Tasted like standard 10-12 year Glenlivet. As others have noted, Whisky stops aging after bottled, so no miraculous way to turn it into 20 year single malt. But, it wasn't turned, so thats a good sign for the unopened bottles.

I did end up carefully opening the crate to inspect the bottles inside, see what kind of condition they were in. Overall condition was excellent. Boxes showed a bit of damage at the bottom half, possibly from humidity, but labels in good condition and no sign of mold or other damage to the upper neck area that could impact the seal.

Here's a few pics from that:

http://i.imgur.com/J7Ui0l.jpg (http://imgur.com/J7Ui0)

http://i.imgur.com/UXBksl.jpg (http://imgur.com/UXBks)

http://i.imgur.com/18i2Cl.jpg (http://imgur.com/18i2C)

http://i.imgur.com/uY7dxl.jpg (http://imgur.com/uY7dx)


Before I left, I had done some more work on dating the bottles and asked around on a whisky forum.
They sent the bottle and crate images to a contact at Glenlivet, who came back with some immensely valuable information for dating the bottles. Turn out bottle dating is tricky for that time period, however the importer and distributor info tells us a lot:

Leeds (marked on the bottles) became the importer in 1948
The company in Mount Vernon (marked on the shipping crates) became the official distributor in 1963.

Thus concluding that it puts the crate at 1963 at the earliest.

I just did some window shopping over at www.thewhiskyexchange.com (a retail site) to see what I could dig up in their vintage bottles for sale section. It's not too useful for determining actual valuation (retail price often doesn't reflect it's value!)

The label design that seems to nearly match mine exactly (particularly the "The" in The Glenlivet is found on bottles listed as being bottled in 1969. Labels from the 1970's are very different, its clearly pre 1970. And a label from 1950 also looks very different.

Pricing on the site: All of the pre-1970 whisky on the site is 18-21 year aged stuff, so no pricing help there. Bottles of 12 year vintage like mine from the 1970's are listed at £175, but again, that doesn't reflect real world "value".

The final piece of the puzzle is centered around the mysterious number codes on the box that dijit's old timer JD friend was looking at.
64
---
86
232
That one is a bit of a puzzle. Based on the evidence, I think its highly probable that 64 is the bottling date. it's post '63 and pre '70, fitting all known evidence to this point.

I'm at a loss to guess what the 86 is then. And 232 could certainly be the cask number.

BEST CONCLUSION SO FAR:

Distilled in 1952
Bottled in 1964
Value: Maybe $150/bottle. Could be double that to a collector that wants the whole case, or half of that. Further inquiry is required in that field.
History: I would be willing to bet that my father acquired the case from my grandmother's cellar when she moved out of their large ancestral home and retired to Florida sometime around 1995-2000. My grandfather was a restaurateur and easily could have purchased a few cases through his own bar to keep around the house for drinking.

[357]

Very cool info Francis. Great find. I hope it finds a home that will appreciate it, including if that means you just choose to enjoy it yourself.

[stearns]

Thanks for the update Francis, looking forward to sharing a smoke with you stateside when you move back :ss

[sigsauer]

how hot does the attic typically get?

[spectrrr]

Thanks for the update Francis, looking forward to sharing a smoke with you stateside when you move back :ss
:tu
I was thinking that might happen at Shack, but it's looking increasingly unlikely that I'll be back in time for Shack this year. Unless things come through earlier than planned (waiting on the visa for my wife to get approved).


how hot does the attic typically get?

That's been a big question in my mind as well. It's tough to say. The attic was mostly insulated, but not particularly well ventilated. If I had to pull a number out of the air, I'd be tempted to guess 90-95 f. It didn't fluctuate too much. The bottles being stored inside of the bottle box and the wooden crate likely helped to regulate humidity levels at the bottle point.

The attic was in Ohio, so fairly typical northern weather, a month of "summer", but not the 110 degree Arizona summers ;). Most likely before that (pre-2000) it was in a Massachusetts wine cellar.

It doesn't appear that the bottles have suffered much of any loss to evaporation, but I haven't inspected all the bottles. I kept the case "intact" in the event that a collector wanted to buy the whole thing complete, as-is. But if it came down to selling off bottles individually, or if someone on here was interested, I think the only thing to do would be to open a bottle for revision and my own drinking. Otherwise, not knowing the complete storage history of the case, there's no other way to really know about the quality, and I'd hate for that knowledge to come at someone else's expense :/

Best info I could dig up googling regarding whiskey storage temps. Everyone says cool dry, but since whiskey is distilled at high temps already, others have noted that temp doesn't affect it much (but constant fluctuations do). This was the only real solid answer that I could find which explained the WHY cooler temps are recommended. Maybe it's B.S., IDK, seems reasonable to me. I noticed very little talk about storage temps browsing the old whiskey websites, so if it were more important than evaporation levels, I would have expected more chatter on it.
Why does heat affect Scotch? It’s really a mixture of heat and humidity but it has to do with evaporation. Scotch, unlike wine, doesn’t mature in the bottle so there’s really not an “ideal” temperature (unlike wine, which is said to mature best between 55° and 60°F). You want to keep it fairly cool because a higher, dryer temperature will result in faster evaporation if the seal of the cork is not 100%.

[TheTraveler]

Thank you for the update! :banger


If you ever decide to sell one or more of those bottles you might consider contacting Ralfy. He's a well-known reviewer of Scotch whiskies (and other liquors) on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ralfystuff

Here's a review he did comparing 1960's and 2000's Johnnie Walker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNw7muIbQX0

[chappy6107]

Hey Spectrrr, has there been any new updates as far as these bottles?

[RUNYYFan]

Wow! That is quite the history for those bottles. That is one fantabulous find. Congratulations!

Now if only we could all find our favorite...