I want to open my own B&M but im not sure where to start. Any advice?

[stj386]

My friend and I are considering opening a tobacco shop/lounge but are not sure where we should start. We have an idea of what we want but are unsure about where to begin and what our initial investment would have to be. If any one could provide any help or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

[emopunker2004]

introduce self here http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=7

one thing you may want to do is find a few areas you'd want the shop to be in and find out what the rent runs. licensing costs. furniture, humidor being built, air filtration costs, cigar costs.

oh and..
http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/22/smbusiness/q_cigar/

[HollywoodQue]

If possible, can you get a poll from some of the locals as to what brands of cigars they would be interested in, before you make any large purchases. This may help keep your inventory low to start off.

Print and distribute fliers to the surrounding residents and stores announcing your Grand Opening with various discounts or freebies btw a certain hours.

Make sure to hit your police and fire stations, local bars and pubs, Hotels, etc.

Good Luck and congrats on your new B&M. Of course, post your specials on this site......I'm sure that most of us will definately support the new business.

[Chemyst]

Your initial investment should be in CIGARS!

j/k...GL

Chemyst :cool2:

[thecatch83]

This is a great idea and business venture IMO. With all the impending legislative crap going on and the crackdown on smoking, I think cigar bars/lounges etc. present a tremendous business opportunity.

[forgop]

This is a great idea and business venture IMO. With all the impending legislative crap going on and the crackdown on smoking, I think cigar bars/lounges etc. present a tremendous business opportunity.

Fixed

[markem]

find out who the cigar reps are in your area, contact them, and have a sit down.

[Brutus2600]

I noticed you live in Hawaii...from what I've heard the rules there are very restrictive on where you can and can't smoke. I'm guessing you've looked into this though?

Good luck with your venture...owning a cigar shop and/or a nice wine/liquor store is something I've always thought I'd enjoy doing for a living. I'm sure a lot of people on this board share the same dream :tu

[Trent0341]

introduce self here http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=7

one thing you may want to do is find a few areas you'd want the shop to be in and find out what the rent runs. licensing costs. furniture, humidor being built, air filtration costs, cigar costs.

oh and..
http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/22/smbusiness/q_cigar/

Interesting read... Especially this part...
The very bare minimum, he estimated, that anyone would need to open a small shop would be $500,000. Gitts said anyone wanting to open a smoke shop should have at least $2 million to spend. Just the equipment to keep the humidors running can cost up to $20,000, said Gitts.

I wish you luck but hope you have a lot of capital to invest as that article was written almost a decade ago. Not a venture to enter in lightly these days. I hope you find success.

[forgop]

Interesting read... Especially this part...
The very bare minimum, he estimated, that anyone would need to open a small shop would be $500,000. Gitts said anyone wanting to open a smoke shop should have at least $2 million to spend. Just the equipment to keep the humidors running can cost up to $20,000, said Gitts.

I wish you luck but hope you have a lot of capital to invest as that article was written almost a decade ago. Not a venture to enter in lightly these days. I hope you find success.

Big difference between $2M in NYC vs. many other lower cost cities.

[dannyboy]

To the OP, where in Hawaii are you located? We have kicked this idea around in our circle as it is a dream of all of ours to own a smoke shop and lounge. Biggest barriers that we can see: smoking laws, you can get away with a lounge but the restrictions are tight and require some very expensive air filtration systems; Hawaii tobacco tax, its throug the roof and makes pricing cigars reasonably difficult and could cut into profit margin; and lastly, locations that will cater to the desired clientelle are very expensive. If you have the capital to get it going, I think it could do well. Our guess is that you would want at least a million going in, this seems to match up with the previously posted article. Also, if it is a lounge, the liquor liscence is a pretty penny as well. Good luck, hope it works out and I can come support your shop :tu

[Bax]

Fixed

I think Forgop is right on this one... B&M's are a dying breed. Taxes, smoking regs and the internet are killing the business.

[thecatch83]

So where exactly will people go, when smoking outdoors becomes illegal? Just a thought.....B&M shops aren't suffering as bad as you might think because most have turned to offering online commerce as well as in store retail....like most stores, they are adapting!

[Bax]

So where exactly will people go, when smoking outdoors becomes illegal? Just a thought.....B&M shops aren't suffering as bad as you might think because most have turned to offering online commerce as well as in store retail....like most stores, they are adapting!

Not sure about that, I've seen a few close up. There will be a couple who can adapt and grow, but I belive that most will eventually have to shut down.

[thecatch83]

Not sure about that, I've seen a few close up. There will be a couple who can adapt and grow, but I belive that most will eventually have to shut down.

Did they close because they can't compete with on-line retailers, or because we're in the worst recession in 80 years?

[stearns]

Did they close because they can't compete with on-line retailers, or because we're in the worst recession in 80 years?

one in the same. i work at a shop and we lose business every day to people who can only afford the $3-$4 price range that only the internet can offer the variety of, and thus go to CI and buy the big samplers for small price tags

stearns

[mosesbotbol]

I think you'd be better off the have a store the sells something and cigars rather than the other way around. Lot's of items can coexist with cigars from clothing, wine, bars, sundries, guns... You name it, but to rely exclusive on cigars & cigar accesories could be restrictive.

I would also consider a franchise cigar "brand" opportunity as well like Davidoff, Dupont, Dunhill for instance. All of which are going to require some deep pockets, but I am making no assumption on your means at all.

[ninjavanish]

I have to disagree with a lot of the people who claim that B&M's are dying.

It's easy to focus on the negative, without paying creedance to the success stories out there.

There is no doubt that times they are a'changin... laws, taxes, recession and perhaps simply a drop in the number of people smoking have all contributed to a downward trend over the past few years... but to simply say that B&M's are dying is quite the hyperbole.

Take a look at some of the bigger B&M's... Outlaw for instance. They were once small businesses. Outlaw has continued their GROWTH not only before but during the past few years. Granted if you talk to them they probably haven't grown as much since 2008... but growth is growth. There are numerous others who have used their cunning and smarts to outpace the downward trend, Outlaw is just one example.

As for opening a B&M yourself... In reading previous posts and what you have to say about it... I can tell you the biggest enemy in your endevour is going to be yourself. Here's what I mean:

To start, as others have noted, it's quite a large investment... if you can get independent financers to help you get up and running that would be an ideal situation... but this revolves back to you. You need to create a business plan and a concept to pitch to said financers. They aren't going to "give you" $500k just because you're a cool guy and you love cigars. They want to see a plan and how their investment is going to be returned.

Now, lets say for conversations sake that you're independently wealthy and/or financing is already taken care of. Small business requires a TON of diligence. It's not like opening the doors every morning and expecting people to come in and spend their hard earned moola. You have to continue planning even after the initial "opening" And all throughout the life of the business.

So again, pointing to the comment on where you said you have no idea where to start... I would recommend starting with a few books on how to be successful running a small business. Even if you're a great business mind it never hurts to buff up that knowledge. The main thing that I think many people struggle with in running cigar stores is the conecpt that it IS in fact a business. Yeah, it's probably one of the most AWESOME fun businesses you can get into... but it's still work. And a hell of a lot of it.

So here's my summary advice on where to start, get yourself some education on businesses, google how to draw up a business plan (even if you have financing in the bag, a well drawn out plan will give you direction when you don't know where to turn), try to determine the demographics of the area you're in, basically do a lot of research on the matter beforehand. Getting in touch with a few sales reps isn't a bad idea... but I'll tell you most of them are busy busy busy and if they have the time to talk, it will be short, so be prepared... have questions at the ready and don't waste their time.

Get involved with the local Chamber of Commerce. They are going to be an invaluable tool... you will want the people here to like you... a LOT. Talk to other small business owners in the area that run similar sized businesses to what you're thinking. I bet if you do a little digging they probably have a group or an organization of small business owners who can help you lobby in the City Council for zoning, licenses, etc. And they probably also can give you a lot of valuable information on trends in the area. What sort of unexpected expenses they incur. Stuff like that that goes unforeseen until after the fact.

Alright, I think that's enough for now.

Back to work! And good luck!

[emopunker2004]

Big difference between $2M in NYC vs. many other lower cost cities.

true but hawaii is by no means a cheap place

[BloodSpite]

I have to disagree with a lot of the people who claim that B&M's are dying.

It's easy to focus on the negative, without paying creedance to the success stories out there.

There is no doubt that times they are a'changin... laws, taxes, recession and perhaps simply a drop in the number of people smoking have all contributed to a downward trend over the past few years... but to simply say that B&M's are dying is quite the hyperbole.

Take a look at some of the bigger B&M's... Outlaw for instance. They were once small businesses. Outlaw has continued their GROWTH not only before but during the past few years. Granted if you talk to them they probably haven't grown as much since 2008... but growth is growth. There are numerous others who have used their cunning and smarts to outpace the downward trend, Outlaw is just one example.

As for opening a B&M yourself... In reading previous posts and what you have to say about it... I can tell you the biggest enemy in your endevour is going to be yourself. Here's what I mean:

To start, as others have noted, it's quite a large investment... if you can get independent financers to help you get up and running that would be an ideal situation... but this revolves back to you. You need to create a business plan and a concept to pitch to said financers. They aren't going to "give you" $500k just because you're a cool guy and you love cigars. They want to see a plan and how their investment is going to be returned.

Now, lets say for conversations sake that you're independently wealthy and/or financing is already taken care of. Small business requires a TON of diligence. It's not like opening the doors every morning and expecting people to come in and spend their hard earned moola. You have to continue planning even after the initial "opening" And all throughout the life of the business.

So again, pointing to the comment on where you said you have no idea where to start... I would recommend starting with a few books on how to be successful running a small business. Even if you're a great business mind it never hurts to buff up that knowledge. The main thing that I think many people struggle with in running cigar stores is the conecpt that it IS in fact a business. Yeah, it's probably one of the most AWESOME fun businesses you can get into... but it's still work. And a hell of a lot of it.

So here's my summary advice on where to start, get yourself some education on businesses, google how to draw up a business plan (even if you have financing in the bag, a well drawn out plan will give you direction when you don't know where to turn), try to determine the demographics of the area you're in, basically do a lot of research on the matter beforehand. Getting in touch with a few sales reps isn't a bad idea... but I'll tell you most of them are busy busy busy and if they have the time to talk, it will be short, so be prepared... have questions at the ready and don't waste their time.

Get involved with the local Chamber of Commerce. They are going to be an invaluable tool... you will want the people here to like you... a LOT. Talk to other small business owners in the area that run similar sized businesses to what you're thinking. I bet if you do a little digging they probably have a group or an organization of small business owners who can help you lobby in the City Council for zoning, licenses, etc. And they probably also can give you a lot of valuable information on trends in the area. What sort of unexpected expenses they incur. Stuff like that that goes unforeseen until after the fact.

Alright, I think that's enough for now.

Back to work! And good luck!

:tpd:
Hands down this is best advice you can get.

I don't know about cigar businesses but I do know about small businesses

Contact the SBA for help with Business Plans, your local Chamber of Commerce usually has a SBA rep that they deal with also.

Lenders won't even talk to you regarding a biz loan unless you have a solid Business plan typically. There are exceptions, but the norm is that plan in your hand everywhere you go.

[stj386]

Thanks for all the feedback. Ive got a lot to think about. I think I'm going to brush up on my small business knowledge and look for a bit more capital.

[thecatch83]

one in the same. i work at a shop and we lose business every day to people who can only afford the $3-$4 price range that only the internet can offer the variety of, and thus go to CI and buy the big samplers for small price tags

stearns


I guess we agree to disagree....be that as it may, formulating your conclusion simply on your experience working at one shop, is hardly an adequate sample in proving your point one way or the other.

[cmitch]

Remember that your customer comes FIRST, not your business. For those who balk at this line, let me explain. Without customers, you have no business. You can buy all the cigars you want and make the lounge the nicest one in town but if you piss off your customers, you'll lose your business. So, it's not difficult to understand who comes first in your commitment. It's a balancing act you better be good at or you'll end up giving away the store in order to serve your customer. I'm not suggesting that's what you do to serve the customer but businesses are servants to the customer. The sooner business owners recognize this, the more successful they will be. You have to make money to survive and no one is begrudging a businessman making a living. Businesses have to set limits on what they are willing to do for their customer. But, way too many B&M's put their business first and when they do, they will fail, eventually.

[ninjavanish]

Remember that your customer comes FIRST, not your business. For those who balk at this line, let me explain. Without customers, you have no business. You can buy all the cigars you want and make the lounge the nicest one in town but if you piss off your customers, you'll lose your business. So, it's not difficult to understand who comes first in your commitment. It's a balancing act you better be good at or you'll end up giving away the store in order to serve your customer. I'm not suggesting that's what you do to serve the customer but businesses are servants to the customer. The sooner business owners recognize this, the more successful they will be. You have to make money to survive and no one is begrudging a businessman making a living. Businesses have to set limits on what they are willing to do for their customer. But, way too many B&M's put their business first and when they do, they will fail, eventually.

Clayton,

Customer Service is whats sets businesses apart from GREAT businesses. However, the customer/business relationship is symbiotic. Especially in the business of Brick and Mortar cigar stores. The old saying that the customer is always right is an often purposefully abused excuse and way for a customer to wring the business for as much as they can.

I have often adopted the term "The patron is always right."

Believe it or not, their is a difference between a patron and a customer. A patron has a genuine interest in the well-being of the store and understands that and supports them with their business and in return the business supports them. I would always go the extra mile to satisfy a true patron.

But a "customer" who always comes in complaining of pricing or what is wrong with the business and how he always gets a raw deal on a perpetual basis... I would have little to no interest in satisfying them for the sheer fact that they have no interest in anything other than themselves... this includes the well-being of the business. Threatening a business-owner with "I'll just go somewhere else with better <insert excuse here>" is a sure-fire way to get yourself uninvited from any level of "above and beyond" that a business owner would have otherwise been willing to provide.

The hardest thing to do is to seperate your personal feelings from the scenario. So in short, yes, there are probably other places a guy could go... but if you find a place that you like, or even simply a place that fills a need/want (in this case that need/want is stogies!) you should always remember it's a 2-Way street... because most B&M's have a life's worth of work and investment poured into them... and if you piss of the guy that own's that life's work... he may simply say "good riddance" and focus that otherwise wasted time and energy that was spent trying to satisfy an abusive customer on another good patron who has earned/deserves that high level of service.

So in a way you are correct, it is a balancing act. However, do not confuse the two as being the same.

[Trent0341]

Big difference between $2M in NYC vs. many other lower cost cities.


Very true, but like emopunker said, Hawaii is not the cheapest place in the world. Now it would probably make a difference on which island/city he was looking at but I'd think anything on Oahu would be just as much if not more than NYC. Either way I wish him the best of luck!

[mosesbotbol]

How many B&M's are currently in Hawaii? How would you distinguish yourself from them?

[cmitch]

Clayton,

Customer Service is whats sets businesses apart from GREAT businesses. However, the customer/business relationship is symbiotic. Especially in the business of Brick and Mortar cigar stores. The old saying that the customer is always right is an often purposefully abused excuse and way for a customer to wring the business for as much as they can.
I could not agree with this more. As a business owner, I know full well the pitfalls of an over expectant customer. As for the symbiotic relationship, it all depends on how much a B&M appreciates one's business. While one B&M may feel that a 'patron' is valuable because he buys $2000 year, there are other stores that might sneer at this amount considering it paltry.

I have often adopted the term "The patron is always right."

Believe it or not, their is a difference between a patron and a customer. A patron has a genuine interest in the well-being of the store and understands that and supports them with their business and in return the business supports them. I would always go the extra mile to satisfy a true patron.

But a "customer" who always comes in complaining of pricing or what is wrong with the business and how he always gets a raw deal on a perpetual basis... I would have little to no interest in satisfying them for the sheer fact that they have no interest in anything other than themselves... this includes the well-being of the business. Threatening a business-owner with "I'll just go somewhere else with better <insert excuse here>" is a sure-fire way to get yourself uninvited from any level of "above and beyond" that a business owner would have otherwise been willing to provide.

Threatening a business owner is low class and usually renders no results.

But, if you go out of the way to satisfy a patron and generally don't do much for a 'customer', then it's likely that customer will never become a patron. I started out as a customer and became a patron. Every person who walks through the door is a potential patron of that establishment. This is where the owner or his employees need to plant that seed so that the customer will grow into a regular patron.

The hardest thing to do is to seperate your personal feelings from the scenario. So in short, yes, there are probably other places a guy could go... but if you find a place that you like, or even simply a place that fills a need/want (in this case that need/want is stogies!) you should always remember it's a 2-Way street... because most B&M's have a life's worth of work and investment poured into them... and if you piss of the guy that own's that life's work... he may simply say "good riddance" and focus that otherwise wasted time and energy that was spent trying to satisfy an abusive customer on another good patron who has earned/deserves that high level of service.

So in a way you are correct, it is a balancing act. However, do not confuse the two as being the same.

No confusion at all. I generalized 'customer' because there are customers that are worth having. While a patron is, in this case, a better term to describe one who visits and buys regularly. But, you would be appalled at the B&M owners who think the 'patron' owes them everything while not caring too much about service, the overall quality of their establishment nor the attitude of their help.

[Stinky]

ninjavanish offered very sound advice! A cigar store/lounge is a business and must be run as such to be successful.

I'd also suggest you contact the IPCPR (http://ipcpr.org/) for advice too. They have a wealth of information on the business of operating a cigar store & lounge. Their successful members are happy to help and known to serve as mentors for you.

Location, Location, Location! A good location can aid in foot-traffic. Remember; the lowest rent is not always the best criteria to choose a location. A cigar store/lounge is a retail business which thrives on customers ability to see it . . . and/or find the store.