Advice for B&M owners anyone?

[Tio Gato]

Like a lot of folk here I try to visit as many B&M's as I can. Luckily I travel a bit and always research new (to me) shops to visit. We've all been to the fantastic shops and to some real stinkers. However so many shops just seem so mediocre and could be a lot better.

Let's try to give some advice (pretend that they may actually read it) to owners and employees. I'll start.

*When I walk in your shop acknowledge my presence. I know you're busy running a business, but a hello or a nod of the head goes a long way to make me feel welcome.

*Don't assume that because I'm wearing work clothes that I don't have any money to spend. (Therefore I am not worth your time.)

*I know you love your regulars, but please don't make me try to figure out who works here and who is just hanging out. I shouldn't have to work to give you my business and my money. You want more regulars don't you?

*Don't assume that because there are no ladies in the shop that it's OK to throw F-bombs and the like. Do assume that maybe some of your customers are gentlemen.

*I know you can't be there all the time and that it's hard to find good employees. Train them well, especially in the art of customer service. A lot of your customers know cigars better than your employees. What we want is good service first and foremost.

OK, so I started. What advice would you give to shop owner that just doesn't seem to get it?

[enlightenedcigar]

I would really appreciate all of your opinions on this actually!! I love my job and I want ot do it the very best that I can, so all input you guys have would be of value to me.

[MiamiE]

F-bombs fly all over down here. :r I agree with the rest though.

[neoflex]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in. Please give me a few minutes to look around and than pop in and ask if I need any help or have any questions. If your on my heels following me in and don't give me a few minutes to myself to peruse your selection I am leaving pretty quickly while purchasing nothing and will never be back. There is nothing I hate more than walking into a walk-in and feeling a hole being burned into the back of my head because an employee follows me in and proceeds to watch me like a hawk until I step back out of the humidor. As a customer I am pretty easy to please but if I feel like you can't give me the benefit of the doubt even for a few minutes to not steal something than I do not need to support your business. At least pretend your coming in to move stock around or check a price or something.

[Bill86]

1. I hate being followed in to walk ins.
2. I also hate being completely ignored.
3. When I say do you have snus don't tell me to buy cope at the gas station across the street. Just say no we don't.
4. Don't tell me you're getting in things you aren't. "oh we plan to get in lots of limiteds", three months later...nothing new.
5. Don't assume I know nothing about cigars, I've yet to meet an employee that has a clue.


I agree with the work clothes thing I use to go in on my breaks and they wouldn't even bother to acknowledge my presence. That's frustrating. I also hate hearing "come on support your local shop" yeah but you don't support me at all. I have to smoke your cigars and you refuse to get in any Viaje/Tatuaje/Illusione cigars.

Shops these days don't seem to work for your business they seem to expect it.



Also please do not tell your employees to recommend Gurkha Titans just because they are the most expensive stick in your humidor (something like $34 a stick).

[full count]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in. Please give me a few minutes to look around and than pop in and ask if I need any help or have any questions. If your on my heels following me in and don't give me a few minutes to myself to peruse your selection I am leaving pretty quickly while purchasing nothing and will never be back. There is nothing I hate more than walking into a walk-in and feeling a hole being burned into the back of my head because an employee follows me in and proceeds to watch me like a hawk until I step back out of the humidor. As a customer I am pretty easy to please but if I feel like you can't give me the benefit of the doubt even for a few minutes to not steal something than I do not need to support your business. At least pretend your coming in to move stock around or check a price or something.

Bingo! Especially if you have employees that are not educated in the basics and can not answer simple questions about origin of tobacco in the blends, wrapper, filler etc.

[Smokin Gator]

This may not be widely experienced... I just don't know. My only local B&M is basically a bar with a humidor. So my take would be... decide what you want to be. If you want to be a bar with mostly cigarette smokers that is fine. Just don't expect my business.

[nick2021]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in. Please give me a few minutes to look around and than pop in and ask if I need any help or have any questions. If your on my heels following me in and don't give me a few minutes to myself to peruse your selection I am leaving pretty quickly while purchasing nothing and will never be back. There is nothing I hate more than walking into a walk-in and feeling a hole being burned into the back of my head because an employee follows me in and proceeds to watch me like a hawk until I step back out of the humidor. As a customer I am pretty easy to please but if I feel like you can't give me the benefit of the doubt even for a few minutes to not steal something than I do not need to support your business. At least pretend your coming in to move stock around or check a price or something.

+2...this really annoys me. I really hate having somebody up my rear-end not being able to have a chance to browse the selection. It annoys me even more when employees keep hounding me to buy particular brands...really annoying...I'll end up buying cigars in the end, so why be up somebody's rear trying to sell something they don't want?

[kydsid]

That's frustrating. I also hate hearing "come on support your local shop" yeah but you don't support me at all. I have to smoke your cigars and you refuse to get in any Viaje/Tatuaje/Illusione cigars.

Shops these days don't seem to work for your business they seem to expect it.



Along those lines if you prefer/require me to buy your sticks to smoke in your shop post a sign.

Don't get mad/ban me when I won't smoke your shitty cigars, especially after I have spent a couple hundred bucks in your store. ;)

[Bill86]

Along those lines if you prefer/require me to buy your sticks to smoke in your shop post a sign.

Don't get mad/ban me when I won't smoke your shitty cigars, especially after I have spent a couple hundred bucks in your store. ;)

Yep, I spent $160 bucks and wanted to smoke my DES there. The employee said don't let the manager catch you but I really don't care. I said really? After I just spent $160 bucks?

So yeah, B&M's have gotten MUCH less of my money after finding all 3 of them to have different issues that are ridiculous.

[Chainsaw13]

If you as a shop owner are going to shell out the money to stock your humidor, learn how to properly maintain it. Don't crank the humidifier so that all the cigars are moldy/spongy. Or so dry that the slightest handling causes all the wrappers to spilt. No way will I pay $25 for a padron 45th with a split wrapper. And to see the other eight left in the box in the same condition will mean you obviously don't know what you're doing an make me less than likely to return.
Posted via Mobile Device

[neoflex]

Yes, please do not try and push the sticks that are not moving on me when I come in or the highest dollar stick you have in your shop on me. I have experienced this in the past and usually I respond with a "No thank you." I have had times where they continued to hound me and I replied with, "No thank you, I've smoked it and it's not my thing and probably not many others so I'm not surprised you guys are forced to push it so your not stuck with a back stock of turds." A response like that usually gets the point across rather quickly and more often than not I will not be in a hurry to be back to that shop. Like I mentioned earlier, I am easy to please. Give me my space but don't ignore me. Ask me if I need help or any recommendations after a few minutes alone and usually I will take it from there. The shops that treat me with respect are the shops that get most of my business. They don't even need to be 100% knowledgeable as everyone starts somewhere but just don't push crap on me if you don't even know what your trying to sell me or wouldn't smoke yourself.

[MikeyC]

Yep, I spent $160 bucks and wanted to smoke my DES there. The employee said don't let the manager catch you but I really don't care. I said really? After I just spent $160 bucks?

So yeah, B&M's have gotten MUCH less of my money after finding all 3 of them to have different issues that are ridiculous.

Most shops keep their sticks too wet to smoke right away anyhow. From my perspective, as long as you spent money in the shop you should be able to smoke whatever you want.

Lots of good points made in this thread!

[kelmac07]

Fellas...looks like you've hit the nail on the head with these posts.

Don't have me drive from Petersburg, Va to Norfolk, Va because you claim to have the latest PDR 1878 Dominicana Reserva (the red one right???) and I arrived to find you don't have a clue what the hell I am talking about...when you bring out the PDR 1878 Capa Maduro (black label).

KNOW YOUR STOCK!!!

[icehog3]

If you have a rule or policy that I apparently was unaware of, mention it to me with courtesy and respect, don't talk to me like I am your naughty nephew, and don't "call me out" in front of others. I promise you if you do, I will not be back, and I will tell every BOTL I know what I think of your place too.

On the other hand, to the owners of 90% of the B&Ms I have been to, thank you for your hospitality and kindness, I look forward to seeing you again. :)

[Volusianator]

5. Don't assume I know nothing about cigars, I've yet to meet an employee that has a clue.



Good evening Bill, my name is Wade!

[Bill86]

Good evening Bill, my name is Wade!

I mean locally :r

My guess is you're a bit far from Franklin/Nashville TN.

[MajorCaptSilly]

Hire really hot women. I don't care what they know about cigars.

MCS

[markem]

Hire really hot women. I don't care what they know about cigars.


:tpd: and make sure that they are fully capable of taking the blame when you put a half smoked stick in a box you are sending to someone.

[CigarNut]

If there are areas in the shop where we should not smoke (assuming that we can smoke in the shop in the first place), please let us know (post a sign or something).

On the other side, with theft being as bad as it is, I understand why you follow me around, but please be a little more respectful of my space. And, if I am a regular, don't follow me around, but make yourself available (at the counter or someplace) so that I can find you when I have questions...

[jimdandy]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in. Please give me a few minutes to look around and than pop in and ask if I need any help or have any questions. If your on my heels following me in and don't give me a few minutes to myself to peruse your selection I am leaving pretty quickly while purchasing nothing and will never be back. There is nothing I hate more than walking into a walk-in and feeling a hole being burned into the back of my head because an employee follows me in and proceeds to watch me like a hawk until I step back out of the humidor. As a customer I am pretty easy to please but if I feel like you can't give me the benefit of the doubt even for a few minutes to not steal something than I do not need to support your business. At least pretend your coming in to move stock around or check a price or something.

Now, in all fairness, just because you are not a "bandit" doesn't mean that the other half of the people who walk in the door wouldn't consider a five finger discount. I agree that I don't appreciate someone breathing down my neck but it may be necessary to maintain an employee presence to prevent theft. Also, especially if you are the only guy in the store at the time, they may just be eager to try and make a sale. Again, I agree that either way they should be tactful about their methods but it seems we too quickly take offense when 80% of the population would at least consider a "freebie" without supervision. :2

[Average Joe]

Don't walk into the humidor eating pizza.

Carry a variety.

Things I have liked - People who let me get in and out of the cigar store. Little chit chat if I don't want it, or a ton if I wanted it.

[GreekGodX]

When describing the flavor of a cigar do not try and compare it to a cuban cigar, or say that it is better than a cuban. Then go on to say I will not be able to tell the difference between said cigar and a specific cuban.

[awsmith4]

:tpd: and make sure that they are fully capable of taking the blame when you put a half smoked stick in a box you are sending to someone.

:r:r:r




My biggest issue is: If you are going to own a cigar store, give a damn about cigars and the culture. If you just thought it would be a money making venture or a safe retirement hobby **** off and let someone who is passionate run the place. No I don't want your highest margin stick, no I don't want the hard to find Altidas product the duped you into stocking, I just want good sticks at a fair price. When I ask you if you carry a cigar that has even been highly rated in a publication like Cigar Aficionado, don't look at me like a dumbass, especially if the issue that mentioned it is on the counter next to the register.

I am in real estate and spend most of my day researching...real estate. If I owned a cigar shop I would spend all day, in between customers, researching...cigars.

Shop owners, give a damn. That is my recommendation.

[CoreyD]

A little trust as a customer. New to hobby but if your standing in the Humidor cause you don't trust me tell me and I'll leave and not come back. If your standing there cause you know I take a lot of time and have questions then I am glad you care so much about me as a customer.
Sometimes after already purchasing I walk into the humidor just browsing sometimes purchasin again but don't expect me to purchase everytime I look at sticks I may be library studying

[NCRadioMan]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in.


A little trust as a customer. New to hobby but if your standing in the Humidor cause you don't trust me tell me and I'll leave and not come back.

In today's world. everyone is a suspect if you are not known. It's those idiot thieves you should be angry at, not the b&m's trying to protect what is theirs. I hate that icy stare too but that's life and it's not going to change. I am guilty. If somebody I don't know walks into our humidor, I keep a very close eye on them as does the camera and recorder. If I don't, inevitably, I will find we have missing stock. That's a fact.

[hscmit]

In today's world. everyone is a suspect if you are not known. It's those idiot thieves you should be angry at, not the b&m's trying to protect what is theirs. I hate that icy stare too but that's life and it's not going to change. I am guilty. If somebody I don't know walks into our humidor, I keep a very close eye on them as does the camera and recorder. If I don't, inevitably, I will find we have missing stock. That's a fact.

this is a shame

[Jbailey]

I will agree with Greg. When helping someone new that I haven't seen I wouldn't follow them but I would start a basic conversation. I would casually ask if there is anything they are looking for, what do they enjoy smoking, etc. I wouldn't try to hound them but in return make them feel welcome. It's an easy way to just keep an eye on whats going on.

[HollywoodQue]

Very well stated Jeff..

[neoflex]

In today's world. everyone is a suspect if you are not known. It's those idiot thieves you should be angry at, not the b&m's trying to protect what is theirs. I hate that icy stare too but that's life and it's not going to change. I am guilty. If somebody I don't know walks into our humidor, I keep a very close eye on them as does the camera and recorder. If I don't, inevitably, I will find we have missing stock. That's a fact.

I can relate but my issue is not even getting a minute or two to get my bearings on what they have as far as stock before they are literally up my butt. If your keeping an eye on me from afar that's one thing but I just get irked at the very few that are literally on my heels going into the humidor to the point where if I stopped short they would more than likely walk into me. Hasn't happened too many times but it has and the few times it did I never returned even if they carried a good selection of sticks. Hell, I didn't even get that treatment in a certain shop in Cornelius where the staff is known to be very cold.;):D

[OLS]

This thread is funny, because it shows that there is no pleasing B&M customers, lol. I am with Greg,
people are theiving scumbags. (paraphrase) BUT in today's technological environment, there is no excuse for
having less than 6 cameras in an average walk-in. You should greet them, then settle down in front of your bank
of surveillance monitors to watch their every move, preferably with remote pan, tilt and zoom. Then when they
gt to the register, simply ask if they found everything they needed. Charge them for that B-52 or T-38 or F-15
or whatever they put into their pants. If they notice it on their receipt, just ask them if they'd like to see the
replay.

[neoflex]

This thread is funny, because it shows that there is no pleasing B&M customers, lol. I am with Greg,
people are theiving scumbags. (paraphrase) BUT in today's technological environment, there is no excuse for
having less than 6 cameras in an average walk-in. You should greet them, then settle down in front of your bank
of surveillance monitors to watch their every move, preferably with remote pan, tilt and zoom. Then when they
gt to the register, simply ask if they found everything they needed. Charge them for that B-52 or T-38 or F-15
or whatever they put into their pants. If they notice it on their receipt, just ask them if they'd like to see the
replay.

:r Would love to be a fly on the wall when this plays out. Would be very entertaining. Hey are you getting inside info on some new Ligas coming down the pipe?:r

[msayewich]

Hire really hot women. I don't care what they know about cigars.

MCS

^^^ *100


I wish we up in Canada can still walk into the humidors and look at the products instead of in books.

[yourchoice]

:tpd: and make sure that they are fully capable of taking the blame when you put a half smoked stick in a box you are sending to someone.

That there is some funny ****! :r :r

[shilala]

Ya know, selling a cigar and being decent to people is not rocket surgery.
If a guy can't figure it out on his own, we sure aren't going to teach him anything.
Some tobacconists are willing to listen to their customers because it's obvious to them that it's the key to success. Others just simply don't last long.
Just like online retailers, if the shop sucks for any reason, I take a walk.
I guess I'm saying this thread is a great idea, and a great read, but most likely futile.
I suppose it sure doesn't hurt to try. :D
Excuse my negativity, this just reminded me of a few really poor experiences and it gave me gas. ;)

[Starz26]

Do not tell me the fuzzy stuff on your cigars is "Bloom" or "Plume". Have a place where customers can smoke without paying a membership fee. Does not have to be big, but for those of us who travel a place to sit and smoke is a nice get away, or sell a day pass.

Oh, and Stop marking up your Opus to 2x msrp and pusing them as to how rare they are. This is not 2003........

[smelly4tay]

Do not tell me the fuzzy stuff on your cigars is "Bloom" or "Plume". Have a place where customers can smoke without paying a membership fee. Does not have to be big, but for those of us who travel a place to sit and smoke is a nice get away, or sell a day pass.

Oh, and Stop marking up your Opus to 2x msrp and pusing them as to how rare they are. This is not 2003........

this^

Also, know the product very well, take care of said product, and treat customers the first time as if they are going to shop here from now on....


and please don't wave a Montecristo or a Bahia in my face and say it is flying off the shelves, then go apeturd crazy when I say no thanks.

[rebelknight]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in. Please give me a few minutes to look around and than pop in and ask if I need any help or have any questions. If your on my heels following me in and don't give me a few minutes to myself to peruse your selection I am leaving pretty quickly while purchasing nothing and will never be back. There is nothing I hate more than walking into a walk-in and feeling a hole being burned into the back of my head because an employee follows me in and proceeds to watch me like a hawk until I step back out of the humidor. As a customer I am pretty easy to please but if I feel like you can't give me the benefit of the doubt even for a few minutes to not steal something than I do not need to support your business. At least pretend your coming in to move stock around or check a price or something.

I completely agree. I agree with what other people are saying also though. Some people cannot be trusted and until you get to know who can and who can't unfortunately everyone cannot be. A couple months ago I was accused of stealing from a local B&M and I had two other BOTL with me who were just as shocked as I was to hear these accusations. The truth is I would never have gone back to the place until I found out it was not an employee who approached me but instead just a very confused and lost costumer. I was very insulted by the very idea of him thinking I would try to steal anything. I may not have a lot of money but that is why I only smoke what I can afford. It really is too bad that theft is such a big problem that honest people have to put up with this problem.

[Bill86]

I agree Dave, but I wouldn't doubt that sometimes that is the case. I mean you would be surprised how little most people that shop at B&M's know about the cigars.

Here's also a prime example of why I don't shop at B&M's.

Camacho liberties 2010 were $25 after taxes at a B&M, on CAYP they are $10. The gouging that is done at B&M's is ridiculous. I cannot afford to pay 2.5X the price just to support a local shop.

Shops should realize they have to be SOMEWHAT competitive.


Also if anyone follows me into the walk in, I'll never buy from them again. Unless I ask "what's new" which I often do.

[MurphysLaw]

I'd just like to hear more shop employees thank customers for their business. If it wasn't for us, they'd be looking for work. A little appreciation goes a long way.

[smelly4tay]

Reading through this makes me think of the recent thread about NHC cigars and the people who were stunned/very happy at the speed and consistency of the owner. I have never used NHC but I plan on it after reading that.. Good CS, good knowledge/service of product, fast delivery, fair-great pricing.

This thread is about B&M's, but in ways, gaining new customers and excellent advertising is the customer service itself.

[gravelman]

I am not a bandit, so please don't follow me into the humidor and hound me the second I walk in. Please give me a few minutes to look around and than pop in and ask if I need any help or have any questions. If your on my heels following me in and don't give me a few minutes to myself to peruse your selection I am leaving pretty quickly while purchasing nothing and will never be back. There is nothing I hate more than walking into a walk-in and feeling a hole being burned into the back of my head because an employee follows me in and proceeds to watch me like a hawk until I step back out of the humidor. As a customer I am pretty easy to please but if I feel like you can't give me the benefit of the doubt even for a few minutes to not steal something than I do not need to support your business. At least pretend your coming in to move stock around or check a price or something.

My feelings exactly :tpd: sometimes I get this at a place I haven't been to before as I am not a regular. It can be very unwelcoming IMHO.

[bscottskangum]

Don't have me drive from Petersburg, Va to Norfolk, Va because you claim to have the latest PDR 1878 Dominicana Reserva (the red one right???) and I arrived to find you don't have a clue what the hell I am talking about...when you bring out the PDR 1878 Capa Maduro (black label).


I remember when that happened and you told the Thursday herfers about it, I think that was the first time I got to witness "Angry Mac" :sl:sl


Good points all around...

Personally my biggest issue is when the shop workers follow you into humidor (I get why they do that though) then proceed to recommend a cigar not knowing anything about me. Then when I completely ignore everything you say, because it's obvious you just want rid of your junk stock, and I take a WHOLE 5 minutes to pick some things ... don't make a snide comment about "I wondered if you were ever gonna find something" :sl:sl

[Tio Gato]

I really sympathize with owners who have been ripped off by theft.

If you've got to follow me around in the humidor simply do it while providing good customer service. If you see me fingering some sticks approach me and give me your opinion. Suggest similar smokes, offer to hold what I've picked up so I grab some more, tell me about new releases, but please don't give me that icy stare. Use that face time to sell me! Following me around takes time, use that time to win a regular. I wanna give you my money today and maybe tomorrow. If you treat me like a human and not a thief I'll be back.

[Devanmc]

this one wont apply to most of you but...

If i come into a shop, just because im not 60 ys/old please dont assume im some snot nosed kid who knows nothing about cigars. :sh

[tsolomon]

If you are having a promo and the sales rep is there, please don't let him hound me after I tell him I haven't found any cigars of that brand that I like. I came to enjoy a smoke, not to listen to him prattle on about how many cigars they sell world wide.

[jmsremax]

Damn, some of you seem to have crappy B&Ms....I have no complaints about the ones around me. Hot bartenders and friendly staff that are helpful when you ask for it. :tu

[macsauce13]

this one wont apply to most of you but...

If i come into a shop, just because im not 60 ys/old please dont assume im some snot nosed kid who knows nothing about cigars. :sh

Ughhh. I'm with you there Devan.

More often than not, when I go into a B&M I leave feeling like I was treated like an idiot. Yes, I'm young. But Yes, I spend WAY too much time researching this hobby, and know quite a bit about it.

[thebiglebowski]

When I ask you if you carry a cigar that has even been highly rated in a publication like Cigar Aficionado, don't look at me like a dumbass, especially if the issue that mentioned it is on the counter next to the register.

this. one of my local shops never seems to go after anything but the usuals (AF, CAO, etc...) and never seems to know much beyond what they have in stock. i don't care much for CA, but at least read the cigar reviews! there's real information there! true story, about a year ago, i asked if there ever going to get in any tatuaje. they looked at me like "tatu... what?" never heard of the brand...

[HK3-]

This thread is funny, because it shows that there is no pleasing B&M customers, lol. I am with Greg,
people are theiving scumbags. (paraphrase) BUT in today's technological environment, there is no excuse for
having less than 6 cameras in an average walk-in. You should greet them, then settle down in front of your bank
of surveillance monitors to watch their every move, preferably with remote pan, tilt and zoom. Then when they
gt to the register, simply ask if they found everything they needed. Charge them for that B-52 or T-38 or F-15
or whatever they put into their pants. If they notice it on their receipt, just ask them if they'd like to see the
replay.

This is where Gurkas come into play. Cigar thieves in general have no clue what they are looking for and tend to prey on price tags. Gurkas are flashy and generally pricey so they are great "bait" for cigar bandits. :D

[docdoty]

I just dont like when the employes lie about the cigars, acting like they know the blend and where it came from but really have no clue. Also If someone asks you what you thougth of a cigar dont quote cigar Aff, I can read that on my own.

[357]

I hate when I walk into a humi and I feel like the smell of mold is punching me in the face; only to see the fuzzy source of the smell all over their stock. Usually in such cases there is literally water dripping down the walls or pooled on the floor.

Plus I HATE being told that mold is plume. I am not an idiot. I know the difference. YES, I've seem plume and smoked cigars that had it. Don't play me for a fool because you don't know how to maintain your humi. I get that it happens in well maintained humi's, but not when it is on half of the cigars in your store.

[357]

The worst B&M was by my old house. It's actually a beer/wine shop, but they have a HUGE walkin humi. They are $2-3 per stick more than any other local B&M in town, plus the door to the walk in is always locked. To get in, first you had to know it was there, since the sliding door was always blocked by crap(boxes, beer promo cutouts, etc). Then you had to ask to go and look around. The owner or his son would litterally look over your shoulder the entire time. No suggestions, no, check this out. Just looming there. Not to mention the walkin was so over stocked, that you could barely side-step through the isles. Boxes were stacked in the walkways from floor to ceiling.

The only reason I ever go back is if I'm in the area, need a cigar, and its between 8PM (other B&Ms close) and midnight (when they close). Even then, it's usually not worth it.

[357]

^^^ *100


I wish we up in Canada can still walk into the humidors and look at the products instead of in books.

Going dark they call it..........as in the dark ages.


;s

[OHRD]

Great thread, thanks for starting this one - not much to add, everyone is spot on!

[CRIMPS]

this one wont apply to most of you but...

If i come into a shop, just because im not 60 ys/old please dont assume im some snot nosed kid who knows nothing about cigars. :sh

:tpd:

If anything, since I am relatively younger, this is an opportunity to market your store to me and lock up a lifetime of business. I plan on living for a long time.

Don't hock the same house brand cigars to me and compare them to cubans every time I walk in. I am immediately skeptical and I will now question any advice or comments you offer.

[Thammy]

^^^ *100


I wish we up in Canada can still walk into the humidors and look at the products instead of in books.


Is this unique to Ontario? I am from Alberta and I still walk into the Humidor at my local B & M.

Reading these makes me very thankful for my local place, these are some horror stories here. My local owner went as far as to offer to phone my university to vouch about my pipes not being for drugs when I got searched and reported. The only problem I have is me being young and considered immature except that is from other customers and not the owners.

Mind you one tobacco store here hires anyone, regardless if they know anything about cigars at all. I went there once only to be greeted by a 18 year old girl who complained about the smell of the humi and told me to hurry up. Tobacco lovers only please!

[357]

Is this unique to Ontario? I am from Alberta and I still walk into the Humidor at my local B & M.

Reading these makes me very thankful for my local place, these are some horror stories here. My local owner went as far as to offer to phone my university to vouch about my pipes not being for drugs when I got searched and reported. The only problem I have is me being young and considered immature except that is from other customers and not the owners.

Mind you one tobacco store here hires anyone, regardless if they know anything about cigars at all. I went there once only to be greeted by a 18 year old girl who complained about the smell of the humi and told me to hurry up. Tobacco lovers only please!

I'm not sure if it is Ontario only. I'm guessing so. They even have plastic flaps to cover the cigarettes (on the shelves) at gas stations. It's mind boggling. Apparently it is illegal to see a tobacco product in person before you buy it. All exterior signage had to be removed as well. The only exceptions were grandfathered in where cigar or tobacco was in the name of the business.

[jimdandy]

I just dont like when the employes lie about the cigars, acting like they know the blend and where it came from but really have no clue. Also If someone asks you what you thougth of a cigar dont quote cigar Aff, I can read that on my own.

Perdomo, Just buy Perdomo :r

[BlindedByScience]

This thread is funny, because it shows that there is no pleasing B&M customers, lol. I am with Greg, people are theiving scumbags. (paraphrase) BUT in today's technological environment, there is no excuse for having less than 6 cameras in an average walk-in. You should greet them, then settle down in front of your bank of surveillance monitors to watch their every move, preferably with remote pan, tilt and zoom. Then when they gt to the register, simply ask if they found everything they needed. Charge them for that B-52 or T-38 or F-15 or whatever they put into their pants. If they notice it on their receipt, just ask them if they'd like to see the replay.
Up front, I have no patience for theives. Period. Hang 'em high. No problem here.

Having said that, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. I believe that with a little time in the store, maybe nine times out of ten you should be able to tell who is a customer and who is a theif. I have to agree that a bank of cameras and multiple, conspicuous signs saying "Smile, you're on video surveillance" or something to that effect should get the point across. Heck, I don't mind being followed into the humidor and asked if I have any questions, but when I say "no, just looking at what you have in stock" that's your clue to leave me alone.

I know what I want, and if I don't see it, I will ask.

I do realize it's a balancing act; too little attention and you'll get robbed, too much and many guys, like me, will walk and not return. But to say there's "...no pleasing B&M customers...." just isn't accurate.

One man's opinion - N.F.H.

[OLS]

I hate when I walk into a humi and I feel like the smell of mold is punching me in the face; only to see the fuzzy source of the smell all over their stock. .

Hahah, this happened to me at the Silver Star Hotel and Casino in Philly , Mississippi.
The whole humidor was DANK-a$$,the flooring was buckled in three places under the susp.
ceiling that was falling apart and I asked for a mold discount on the Puroos Indios I was
getting and he told me it was PLUME!!! I left it all on the counter.

And then one day I gave it ALL back. Walked into a humidor room in Metairie, LA
and reached up to grab a box of Padron Executives off the top shelf, and when I put it
back, it slipped and fell what, 8 feet? I put it on the shelf and left a minute or so later.
NOT a good moment in the cigar life of OLS.
;s

[OLS]

I think that is a good point, and I wish I had made it in an even better way, lol.
A SIGN telling me that I AM being watched is NOT OFFENSIVE to me. BEING
watched in person pi$$es me off to the point where I am not likely to come back.
And there was a time that pissing me off cut your annual turnover by 5-6 thousand
dollars a year. Once I found a B&M I liked, I was loyal. Then I discovered mail
order habanos.

[Dukeuni]

Video Cameras- Why don't more B&M's install video cameras in the humidors if they are so worried about shoplifting? Is there a problem with the cameras and the humidity?

Any CA members have video cameras in their B&M's?

[357]

Video Cameras- Why don't more B&M's install video cameras in the humidors if they are so worried about shoplifting? Is there a problem with the cameras and the humidity?

Any CA members have video cameras in their B&M's?

I've seen them in many B&M humidors. I much prefer that to the human shadow.

[NCRadioMan]

Video Cameras- Why don't more B&M's install video cameras in the humidors if they are so worried about shoplifting? Is there a problem with the cameras and the humidity?

Any CA members have video cameras in their B&M's?

Yep. We have them set up throughout the store. It really helps, especially when I am working alone.

[awsmith4]

I actually like the shadow thing when it is preformed under the guise of wanting to show off the humidor, especially if the person has a genuine passion for their stock.

[Christiel49]

I have to agree with most of these. Very good points.

Adding: Just because I am a woman does not mean that I do not appreciate or have knowledge of cigars!! I am relatively new to this hobby, but I am an intelligent woman and demand to be treated as such! :sl

Don't just assume that all I want to smoke is little flavored cigarellos!!

Please acknowledge me when I walk in, and then let me check things out(drool @ your goods). I will ask questions if I have them.

Thanks,
That is ALL!:sw

[jesseboston81]

Reading these makes me very thankful for my local place, these are some horror stories here.

:tpd: I never knew how fortunate I was to have my B&M of choice until I read this thread. Honestly, at that shop I've never experienced any of the complaints that others are reporting here. Employees at my B&M are extremely knowledgeable and passionate about cigars, and seem to know just when to leave me alone to browse and when to spend twenty minutes walking me through the shop, chatting about my tastes, and giving me personalized recommendations.

[markem]

Adding: Just because I am a woman does not mean that I do not appreciate or have knowledge of cigars!! I am relatively new to this hobby, but I am an intelligent woman and demand to be treated as such! :sl

:tpd: this goes for the patrons as well. Just because a sister of the leaf comes in to the store doesn't mean that it is date night at the OK corral.

[loki]

don't be cheap

[Thammy]

I'm not sure if it is Ontario only. I'm guessing so. They even have plastic flaps to cover the cigarettes (on the shelves) at gas stations. It's mind boggling. Apparently it is illegal to see a tobacco product in person before you buy it. All exterior signage had to be removed as well. The only exceptions were grandfathered in where cigar or tobacco was in the name of the business.


Weird, I know they can't advertise any. Yeah when I worked at a gas station I could not show the tobacco or advertise it, yet in a Irish Pub they had a cigarettes ad. Oh well. Maybe I should figure out what these laws are exactly.

[enlightenedcigar]

Perdomo, Just buy Perdomo :r

hahahahaha :tpd:

[Miket156]

This thread is a GREAT! Customers meet B&M employees and owners! Its nice to get both sides of the story.

Some of the things I've run into:

Their hours are too short. Being open until 5pm everyday doesn't do anything for me, I work too. I would love to have a B&M that stays open until 7pm so I could stop there after work.

Inventory. I've read posts complaining that B&M's stock only the common brands or something to that effect. My problem is the opposite. The local B&M doesn't have any brand name I recognize. I'm not as knowledgeable as many of you fine folks here, but I have heard of a lot of common brands. When I walk into the local B&M and don't recognize anything, if the owners don't engage me, I leave.

Just a note: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people will steal cigars in a B&M, but I was. I "thought" that anyone that would be interested in purchasing a cigar would not be a thief too. Maybe thieves just go into any retail store and try to steal anything, I don't know.

Now, I'm not saying I'm perfect. However if I would ever entertain stealing, it would be a Brinks job or nothing. :D


Cheers,


Mike T.

[NCRadioMan]

Just a note: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people will steal cigars in a B&M, but I was. I "thought" that anyone that would be interested in purchasing a cigar would not be a thief too. Maybe thieves just go into any retail store and try to steal anything, I don't know.



$700 gone in minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNVL1nNaEgw

It's always the people you wouldn't expect to steal that does.

[cmitch]

If you have a rule or policy that I apparently was unaware of, mention it to me with courtesy and respect, don't talk to me like I am your naughty nephew, and don't "call me out" in front of others. I promise you if you do, I will not be back, and I will tell every BOTL I know what I think of your place too.

On the other hand, to the owners of 90% of the B&Ms I have been to, thank you for your hospitality and kindness, I look forward to seeing you again. :)
Unfortunately, our local B&M, which I am a locker member, has become this. I cleaned my locker out last Wednesday. I have no intentions of frequenting them as much. The last straw was last Tuesday where a girl of 22 who couldn't give 2 sh^ts about the store treated two of my friends very rudely near closing time. One of the gentlemen complained the following day of her rude behavior. Nothing done, to my knowledge. Also, they've decided to implement rules that have practically removed any enjoyment of being there. It's an uncomfortable environment and I've already relocated to more enjoyable places for a smoke.

[hscmit]

Unfortunately, our local B&M, which I am a locker member, has become this. I cleaned my locker out last Wednesday. I have no intentions of frequenting them as much. The last straw was last Tuesday where a girl of 22 who couldn't give 2 sh^ts about the store treated two of my friends very rudely near closing time. One of the gentlemen complained the following day of her rude behavior. Nothing done, to my knowledge. Also, they've decided to implement rules that have practically removed any enjoyment of being there. It's an uncomfortable environment and I've already relocated to more enjoyable places for a smoke.

that sucks buddy

[tsolomon]

I have to agree with most of these. Very good points.

Adding: Just because I am a woman does not mean that I do not appreciate or have knowledge of cigars!! I am relatively new to this hobby, but I am an intelligent woman and demand to be treated as such! :sl

Don't just assume that all I want to smoke is little flavored cigarellos!!

Please acknowledge me when I walk in, and then let me check things out(drool @ your goods). I will ask questions if I have them.

Thanks,
That is ALL!:swMy wife is with you on this one. She likes Tatuajes and Illusiones and they always want to steer her towards milder sticks. It's fun for me to watch the B&M staff get chased out of the walk-in by her. :D

[mackhaus]

Very interesting reading in this post......I have been in many, many B&Ms throughout Florida and many other states and have experienced just about every reaction/action from the owners/managers that are listed here in this post....all but the Eating Pizza in the humi....that is a new one. If most places in the United States require you be 18 years old or 21 years old to purchase tobacco, why don't shop owners require picture ID when you first walk through the door, like a night club does? In addition to cameras in the humidor, it would tell you who was in the store. I mean, I am asked for picture ID many places that I go already, wouldn't bother me one bit and it should make the rest of the time I spend looking around the store much more enjoyable! -(P

[N2 GOLD]

Video Cameras- Why don't more B&M's install video cameras in the humidors if they are so worried about shoplifting? Is there a problem with the cameras and the humidity?

Any CA members have video cameras in their B&M's?

Very good point, waaaaay better then the shadow & look...

[Kreth]

...explaining that 5 Vegas is just some garbage CI came out with,
Don't slam brands you don't carry. ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

[Ogre]

Don't slam brands you don't carry. ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

I would have to agree!!

[Bad Finger]

I "thought" that anyone that would be interested in purchasing a cigar would not be a thief too.


Never met a lawyer, huh?

[Ogre]

Never met a lawyer, huh?

:r:r

[Bad Finger]

1. Don't disrespect me because of my age. Yes, I look young, but after 4 kids and 3 wives...I need a stogie.

2. When I ask about a top 25 NC stick, don't look at me like I'm the crazy one if you don't have it. "HUH? Whats a Liga Privada? Who makes it? Is it a generic?" LOL

Yeah Rich's in Portland....I'm looking at you! You've been promising to get me a box for over a year.

3. (Already been mentioned) When I come into your store wearing a sweatshirt, don't expect me to be looking for the dog rockets. Last time this happened, I ended up buying $200 in sticks.

4. When I ask if you have the new thing I'm looking for, and you tell me "yes we do, but they are in the back and I haven't priced them yet", prepare for me to call you a lazy bastard.

5. Get off your damn computer and interact with your customers. Yeah, forums are fun...but customers bring you money. Save the forum updates for after work please.

6. Don't mark your sticks up with more than a 70% profit margin, and I'll be willing to bet that your "theft problem" might go down some. Ever bought a stogie on the strip in Vegas? Talk about price fixing!

[awsmith4]

6. Don't mark your sticks up with more than a 70% profit margin, and I'll be willing to bet that your "theft problem" might go down some. Ever bought a stogie on the strip in Vegas? Talk about price fixing!

Just out of curiosity how do you know what there profit margin is and how does that make theft justified???

[Bad Finger]

Just out of curiosity how do you know what there profit margin is and how does that make theft justified???

I'm not justifying ANYTHING. But when you've gone to conventions, know what wholesale is, and then see those sticks in certain stores for 25% more than your regular B&M's, yeah..something is up and it stinks.


$40 45th Padrons

$20 Nostrosos

$25 Camacho Triple Maduros


These are why I don't go into certain stores. When something is above MSRP, who is the real thief in that equation?

[awsmith4]

I'm not justifying ANYTHING. But when you've gone to conventions, know what wholesale is, and then see those sticks in certain stores for 25% more than your regular B&M's, yeah..something is up and it stinks.


$40 45th Padrons

$20 Nostrosos

$25 Camacho Triple Maduros


These are why I don't go into certain stores. When something is above MSRP, who is the real thief in that equation?

Often times cigars in event areas are bought from a retail outlet not a wholesaler or a manufacturer. Every time a cigar changes hands (as well as many other products) it often needs to be doubled to make a margin that is profitable. Without profit there is no point in business. If the market will bear a $40 Padron then that is not gouging, that is providing for your customer base. Cigars are not a necessity so no one is forced to pay high prices. The only way a person would be a thief is if they misrepresented what they were selling. If they have a cigar clearly priced and a customer is willing to buy that cigar at that price then that is the free market at work. If the seller was peddling fakes or rebanding lower grade cigars then that would constituent thievery.

With that said it does trouble me to go to a local shop that has higher prices than their competitors, know that they get them from the same source, and then hear them complain that no one is buying and the other guys are undercutting them. If your competition is pricing lower maybe you need to as well. Yes, you may not make the same margin per cigar but a low margin is better than no margin from lack of sales.

[Bad Finger]

Often times cigars in event areas are bought from a retail outlet not a wholesaler or a manufacturer. Every time a cigar changes hands (as well as many other products) it often needs to be doubled to make a margin that is profitable. Without profit there is no point in business. If the market will bear a $40 Padron then that is not gouging, that is providing for your customer base. Cigars are not a necessity so no one is forced to pay high prices. The only way a person would be a thief is if they misrepresented what they were selling. If they have a cigar clearly priced and a customer is willing to buy that cigar at that price then that is the free market at work. If the seller was peddling fakes or rebanding lower grade cigars then that would constituent thievery.

With that said it does trouble me to go to a local shop that has higher prices than their competitors, know that they get them from the same source, and then hear them complain that no one is buying and the other guys are undercutting them. If your competition is pricing lower maybe you need to as well. Yes, you may not make the same margin per cigar but a low margin is better than no margin from lack of sales.

Oh, I completely understand what you are saying, and completely agree. I don't steal, and would never justify it, I just thought I might throw out a reason I could see someone justifying it over.

I simply just don't offer gougers my money. ;s

[awsmith4]

Oh, I completely understand what you are saying, and completely agree. I don't steal, and would never justify it, I just thought I might throw out a reason I could see someone justifying it over.

I simply just don't offer gougers my money. ;s

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

[Ogre]

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

Vary well put Albert!!!

[JaKaacH]

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

Good one Albert. I hate the over use of the gouger term too! If you don't like the price move on, if you make a offer and the sellers says no move on.

[Bad Finger]

Yep, and these same retailers will tell you "our prices are higher than the internet because the online guys don't have to pay for a store!". BS

They pay employees, overhead, warehousing, shipping, and electricity like anyone else.

Also, the practice of B&M's telling customers not to purchase online because the "feds will come after you for taxes" is just about as low as it gets.



If a retailer is paying more than MSRP for a specific product, rather than finding a dealer for their customers who offer said product at the MSRP, I would say they are ripping their customers off.

If they wanted to save the customers business, they would say "I can get them for you, but they are way above MSRP due to demand", and offer either another source, or possibly buy them from the retailer, add on $10 and make the profit on the customers subsequent purchases.

Simply sticking on a sticker price that is $10-15 higher per stick than the guy down the road is a quick way to be labeled a cheat or scammer. Thats an extra $200-400 a box.

[Miket156]

Depending on where you live, the typical cigar retailer is at a disadvantage when compared to Internet stores. Where I live (Pennsylvania) we have archaic laws and the state isn't afraid to charge gratuitous license fees for anybody that is in the "sin" business (smoking, drinking, sex). Cigar retailers may also be hit with an additional city tax for same. Retailers also have a smaller market to serve.

Internet dealers that have a user friendly website and fair prices can sell anywhere in the US, so they have a larger customer base. Internet stores don't have to pay all those license fees for allowing smoking in a public place. They can operate out of a warehouse and not have to work a retail establishment with wall to wall, leather chairs, expensive glass front humidor cases, etc.

Small cigar retailers don't survive where I live.



Mike T.

[awsmith4]

Yep, and these same retailers will tell you "our prices are higher than the internet because the online guys don't have to pay for a store!". BS - True

They pay employees, overhead, warehousing, shipping, and electricity like anyone else. - True

Also, the practice of B&M's telling customers not to purchase online because the "feds will come after you for taxes" is just about as low as it gets. - The main reason a online cigar is cheaper is because of the lack of having to charge state tax. True the feds will not come after you, but the state might. It has happened in New Jersey, and if I can find a link to the thread I will post it. As for what the state tax is here is the link http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16845



If a retailer is paying more than MSRP for a specific product, rather than finding a dealer for their customers who offer said product at the MSRP, I would say they are ripping their customers off.

If they wanted to save the customers business, they would say "I can get them for you, but they are way above MSRP due to demand", and offer either another source, or possibly buy them from the retailer, add on $10 and make the profit on the customers subsequent purchases.

Simply sticking on a sticker price that is $10-15 higher per stick than the guy down the road is a quick way to be labeled a cheat or scammer. Thats an extra $200-400 a box. - That is not scamming, gouging, cheating, etc. that is just dumb business and will be corrected by the free market. People eventually will not pay higher than the competition and if they do its their own fault

My replies are in red, and I will find the thread that has the letter where the state demanding payment.

[replicant_argent]

4. When I ask if you have the new thing I'm looking for, and you tell me "yes we do, but they are in the back and I haven't priced them yet", prepare for me to call you a lazy bastard.



Really?



No... I gotta ask, are you serious on this one?

[Miket156]

One of the things that I don't like is some Internet cigar resellers won't accept my UPS account number for shipping. I can use our company's UPS account# if I ask and I don't have to pay shipping at all. Some of them say their "system is automated" and they can't use another account number. That's baloney. Worse, one company told me that it was against their policy to use another UPS account#. So, its against MY policy to buy cigars from poor business people.

Anyone that is in business can get the UPS World Wide software from free from UPS and a label printer and labels for DIRT CHEAP! its cheaper and more efficient that using the UPS website and your laser printer or your own label machine. I know this for sure because we use to do it the old way and several months again we switched to the UPS software and label printer and my life is so much easier. I can crank out the packages now! Also, I can use anyone else's UPS account provided I have all the correct information, which the owner of the account would have to give me.

Some companies that insist on doing the shipping over-charge for that service, and I find it annoying. It's so bush league. I won't buy from them.

Rant over,



Mike T.

[Bad Finger]

You are correct in your replies guys, but we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

You're right, the free market will take care of the issue at hand. Being labeled a scammer doesn't mean you ARE a scammer, just that people view you that way. Once that happens, you might as well board up the windows because its all down hill from there. Even if you have awesome prices, if you seem 'shifty' as a proprietor, you are probably not going to be around for very long.

To those who complain about state taxes. Move. Sorry fellas, I had to move out of state to gain lawful compliance in the industry I'm in, coming from Idaho. As I was told before my move, "if you don't like the laws in your state, get out.". I did. The rules that are setup by your local legislature can and do get changed through action and BOTL's running for local office, not charging more at the register.


There is a reason that Best Buy, Target, and Walmart all take a hit on the hot items during the xmas season. They realize that they could charge more for an Xbox, but they lose money on those purchases to attract more customers into their store, and make the profit margin up on cheaper products.

Just like the restaurant business, where most kitchens lose money due to food costs, and make it up on alcohol sales. If you can't compete with everyone else in town, that is nobody's fault but your own when it comes to running a small business.

If you don't like taxes, there are a number of way to start a Cigar Union, Association, or other 501(c)3 non-profit to get around that, and possibly get around local laws limiting smoking areas in public.

I guess it comes down to this for me. When I walk into a cigar shop, I expect to be talking to a tobacconist who does it for the passion of the leaf, not a guy trying to make a quick buck.

Where there is a will, there's a way.

[Bad Finger]

Really?



No... I gotta ask, are you serious on this one?

Nope. Paul's Cigar Shop on Beaverton-Hillsdale HWY.

Asked about Warlock (by omar ortez), and the older salesman told me "yep, we just had some dropped off in the back for promo, but i haven't inventoried them yet".

I laughed all the way out the door.

[Adriftpanda]

Maybe he was busy?

[awsmith4]

So are you now saying that a local cigar shop should keep prices in line with a online store and if they can't they should move out of state to avoid the taxes but continue to stay in state and provide cigars and a place for you to smoke?

Seems impossible...

[Bad Finger]

Maybe he was busy?

Nope. Store had two guys puffing, and the proprietor on the PC looking at ESPN.com. Went back later in the eve when I was driving by, just to ask the younger sales man about it.

He said they had been in the back for 3 weeks, that the rep dropped them off intending to be given out to the guys who buy Omar Ortez lines. He walked into their closet, grabbed them, and 5 #49 Anjeo's the other fella said they didn't have, and I completed my order.

The salesman told me point blank, "yeah, the other guy is a dick".

I haven't gone back.

[loki]

Nope. Paul's Cigar Shop on Beaverton-Hillsdale HWY.

Asked about Warlock (by omar ortez), and the older salesman told me "yep, we just had some dropped off in the back for promo, but i haven't inventoried them yet".

I laughed all the way out the door.

so you do everything the second you get it? maybe he'd just done inventory the day before, maybe he just did it before you got there...maybe you should open your own shop since you have the perfect way to do everything

[Bad Finger]

So are you now saying that a local cigar shop should keep prices in line with a online store and if they can't they should move out of state to avoid the taxes but continue to stay in state and provide cigars and a place for you to smoke?

Seems impossible...


No, I gave two of the local shops their opportunity to earn my business several times. Timber Valley Tobacco's owner died, and the sales woman who bought it, Dawn, ran it into the ground by not ordering any more stock.

Paul's has the worst service I've ever had, of ANY retailer, tobacco or not.

Rich's is a good place. They have a markup of about $1-2 per stick compared to other places, but it is downtown and I understand that.

Pearl Specialty Market is right down the road and charges 20% more than Rich's.

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol


I never said they needed to keep prices inline with online retailers. I said putting an extra $10 a stick compared to other stores in town would get you labeled a scammer.

[Bad Finger]

so you do everything the second you get it? maybe he'd just done inventory the day before, maybe he just did it before you got there...maybe you should open your own shop since you have the perfect way to do everything

Nope, the online guys do a perfect job for me. Thanks!

[awsmith4]

No, I gave two of the local shops their opportunity to earn my business several times. Timber Valley Tobacco's owner died, and the sales woman who bought it, Dawn, ran it into the ground by not ordering any more stock.

Paul's has the worst service I've ever had, of ANY retailer, tobacco or not.

Rich's is a good place. They have a markup of about $1-2 per stick compared to other places, but it is downtown and I understand that.

Pearl Specialty Market is right down the road and charges 20% more than Rich's.

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol

I'm not chiding you, and I apologize for the tone of my last post. You do however state your opinions with a certain vigor that for some reason inspired me to repute. But it was meant to be more in the spirit of a lively debate, not to tell you you are wrong.

If you scroll back a few pages you and I made the same point, my biggest piece of advice to store owners is "Give a damn"

[awsmith4]

Nope, the online guys do a perfect job for me. Thanks!

However, then you made this post.

Online guys do not provide a lounge, they don not clean the ashtrays, they do not give personal service. I too order a lot of cigars online but each the online and the local retailers play a certain role.

[Bad Finger]

I'm not chiding you, and I apologize for the tone of my last post. You do however state your opinions with a certain vigor that for some reason inspired me to repute. But it was meant to be more in the spirit of a lively debate, not to tell you you are wrong.

If you scroll back a few pages you and I made the same point, my biggest piece of advice to store owners is "Give a damn"

You're probably right. My wife says I come across as a prick to almost everyone. It wasn't meant to be as rough of a response as it came across as, but being a small business owner I often go over what I would do differently if I were the owner of a shop when I walk in.

It wasn't meant to be an attack on B&M owners, just what many people feel when they walk in.

In all honesty, a good friend of mine is thinking looking to purchase Timber Valley and turn it into a private club. Hopefully, he will be able to lead by example rather than follow what other shops in town do.

1. Interact with customers

2. Offer the best service available. Customer service is what adds value to the product you sell. Customers can get that thing you have at a number of stores, they come to you because they either like you or you offer something they can't get anywhere else, usually outstanding service.

3. Thank the customer for the patronage. Simply put, a little praise goes along way with people.

4. If you have to lose money in order to get a box of Anejos in your store for your customers once a year, do it. Mark the price up .25 on all your "reject" sticks, and flavored items to make up the difference. I doubt you'd have to go to that extreme however. Your customers will LOVE you for it, and will return for sure. I promise.

[Bad Finger]

However, then you made this post.

Online guys do not provide a lounge, they don not clean the ashtrays, they do not give personal service. I too order a lot of cigars online but each the online and the local retailers play a certain role.



Neither do our shops. They don't allow smoking, except Pauls which has two chairs.


I go to the Mark. I don't buy my cigars there, but I do spend $20-40 each time I go on food, and drink. Seeing as they have around 30 humidors that are owned by patrons there, I don't see them as making their money on stogies either.

[markem]

I go to the Mark. I don't buy my cigars there, but I do spend $20-40 each time I go on food, and drink. Seeing as they have around 30 humidors that are owned by patrons there, I don't see them as making their money on stogies either.

The cigars are from Broadway Cigars and you would have to ask Sam whether or not the Shilo/Mark makes any money off them. The Shilo/Mark owns the humidors and boxes, but I don't know what the rent might be. Some here on this board have private boxes there.,

Also, Dawn never owned Timber Valley, although she was looking for investors. The son of the late owner eventually sold it to two guys, who seem enthusiastic but are relatively new to cigars, or so I am led to believe.

[Bad Finger]

The cigars are from Broadway Cigars and you would have to ask Sam whether or not the Shilo/Mark makes any money off them. The Shilo/Mark owns the humidors and boxes, but I don't know what the rent might be. Some here on this board have private boxes there.,

Also, Dawn never owned Timber Valley, although she was looking for investors. The son of the late owner eventually sold it to two guys, who seem enthusiastic but are relatively new to cigars, or so I am led to believe.



Gotcha. I was asking Ruth and the other 'tender about rentals, but they didn't know and thought they were privately owned.

I got a different story about Timber Valley, but I'm sure we can yap about it over a nice cold one sometime down at The Mark. My treat.

Whatever the case, they had a great selection two years ago, and lovely service (other than being preached to about Obama). Now you can't find a stick in there worth a crap it seems.

I have yet to go to Broadway, but am looking forward to the April 2nd Alec Bradley event. Maybe I'll see a few of you guys and gals there. I've been told its the best store in the valley, I just haven't been able to drive past The Mark without stopping in and getting stuck watching the game with really good people. How good is the service? They get 25-30% out of me on tips.

Going there tonight to play poker in fact. Been there every night this week since finding the place on Monday.

Spent $70 there so far, and taking another $80 for em tonight. I have no problems paying for a good place to smoke. Now, I need to give Nikki a $20 bill for her to order the Fox Soccer Channel so I can watch my games!

[Miket156]

Bad Finger:

In PA, the legislators have passed laws that are popular with the masses, so smoking in businesses that can be accessed by the general public is out. Both existing businesses and new businesses that want the “privilege” of allowing smoking have to pay the state for that privilege. Local government wants in on the take too, so Cigar shop owners have to pay more. People that were already in business have no choice than to pay the license fees or close. When you have debt that can only be paid by staying in business, you have to pay the license fees and try to survive. The owner’s costs have gone up since the anti-smoking laws have passed, so they have to charge more.

Maybe Walmart can afford to sell loss leaders, but cigar stores have a limited number of products to sell and they all have to do with smoking.

Bar owners have been impacted the same way. When smoking was banned in restaurants and bars, many of their customers started going to private clubs which by law can allow smoking (because it’s a private club that charges for membership. It is not open to the general public). Its easy for you to say they should move, but these owners have a mortgage and a debt service they have to pay, they have children in the local school system, and maybe one spouse has a career/job at another local company. People that have worked for a number of years at a career and have built up a retirement account are not going to pick up and move because the smoking laws have changed, they can’t.

I think your attitude is a bit flippant.


Mike T.

[icehog3]

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol




I know you are new here, Clancy, and you seem quite knowlegable. I will say here that usually any fallout is more due to the tone than to the content. Very tolerant bunch here in general, as long as the dialogue is civil. ;)

[RandJCigars]

Some really interesting comments here...most seem to be either East Coast or West Coast. I'd like to hear from some of you customers in the South; Texas, Louisiana, Florida, etc.

It seems fascinating to me that some of these proclaiming business owners would act in such a way. I run a B & M myself, and customers (as all of us should know) make the doors stay open. Now I won't sit here and say that I welcome and greet every customer that walks through the door right away, but before they leave, they will get a "hello, how's it going, if you need anything let me know". That is my greeting to all customers that aren't "regulars".

On a day to day basis, Im either at the computer dealing with manufacturers (making orders), dealing with accounts (taking orders for the wholesale side of the business), cold calling to attempt to open new accounts, and stock trading. When Im not at the computer, Im sitting down with the customers conversing, play8ing dominos, playing cards, or just hanging out. When a customer comes in while Im in that scenario, I make it a point to look at them and tell them "If you need anything, don't hesitate to ask" so they know I'm the guy that works there.

It's crazy to me to hear that these little things that all B & M owners should do naturally, don't do, and end up losing customers over it. I do not have a walkin humidor but I would think that rather following in customers every time they enter, the owner would just put in a few cameras to cover the angles.....but I guess not.

Keep the conversation going, it's cool to read this side and than read the B & M thread, lo.

[Miket156]

Jimmy:

I like your approach to handling customers. Its not hard-sell and you are letting the customers know you work there and if/when they have questions, you can take care of them.

The only B&M store where I live is small with a limited selection of cigars that I never heard of before. Now, I don't know every cigar on the market, but I don't see the common brands. I believe they open at 11am and close at 5pm Mon-Wed and stay open later on Thursday or Friday. It makes it difficult for me to go there, I work too. This place won't be a hang out for me, I am not going to pay 10 to 12 for a cigar I never heard of just to support their store.

When I was back home for the holidays, there was a much larger B&M with a great selection of cigars, a nice selection of accessories, and a knowledgeable staff. I went in there with my nephew. I spent $65 on cigars and my nephew bought some accessories. We sat and smoked a cigar and relaxed in some nice leather chairs. If that store was located where I live now, I would be a regular.

Jimmy-Just an FYI. I sent an email to you at your shop.


Cheers,



Mike T.

[pnoon]

Jimmy:

I like your approach to handling customers. Its not hard-sell and you are letting the customers know you work there and if/when they have questions, you can take care of them.

The only B&M store where I live is small with a limited selection of cigars that I never heard of before. Now, I don't know every cigar on the market, but I don't see the common brands. I believe they open at 11am and close at 5pm Mon-Wed and stay open later on Thursday or Friday. It makes it difficult for me to go there, I work too. This place won't be a hang out for me, I am not going to pay 10 to 12 for a cigar I never heard of just to support their store.

When I was back home for the holidays, there was a much larger B&M with a great selection of cigars, a nice selection of accessories, and a knowledgeable staff. I went in there with my nephew. I spent $65 on cigars and my nephew bought some accessories. We sat and smoked a cigar and relaxed in some nice leather chairs. If that store was located where I live now, I would be a regular.

Jimmy-Just an FYI. I sent an email to you at your shop.


Cheers,



Mike T.
Mike,
Rather than put a members name (to whom you are responding) at the start of your post, it is more helpful to use the "quote" button. This not only shows your response is addressing a particular person but it also puts your response in context without the reader having to go back and look for the post to which you refer.
:2

[OLS]

I also like this thread and have to come down on the side of the free-marketers.
ANY B&M that prices stock high, I do not think of them as gougers or scammers or rip-
off artists. However, I also do not go to their shops again. So in the end, one thing they
ARE is losers. I spend, or used to spend a ton of money on cigars in B&Ms and while I hold
no personal animosity towards them, I do chuckle at how they let 5 grand a year walk out
the door.

Now many will just think, 'oh that guy is a hobo with no money, who cares if he left without
buying'. No. I am not going to tell you how to price your stuff, because I know that in any
business it's tough out there, and in the stogie business, it's often really scary. But I think
that a lot of customers are like me, I'll let a B&M owner hang himself without so much as a
price comment. Because I DON'T KNOW anything about his business. But I have definite
opinions. I am a foot voter. What's funnier is that also have no idea about how much info they
share with one another, is one shop KILLING IT and keeping that info to himself, or is he sharing
his basic profits with other owners and leaving them scratching their head over how he does it?
Who knows. But price sells and word travels fast.

[OLS]

When I am a seller, though, I AM CONCIOUS about my high prices and always apologize for them in advance.
I do not LOWER them, but I do apologize for them, lol.

[RandJCigars]

Mike,

Thank you sir. I replied back to your inquiry.




Jimmy:

I like your approach to handling customers. Its not hard-sell and you are letting the customers know you work there and if/when they have questions, you can take care of them.

The only B&M store where I live is small with a limited selection of cigars that I never heard of before. Now, I don't know every cigar on the market, but I don't see the common brands. I believe they open at 11am and close at 5pm Mon-Wed and stay open later on Thursday or Friday. It makes it difficult for me to go there, I work too. This place won't be a hang out for me, I am not going to pay 10 to 12 for a cigar I never heard of just to support their store.

When I was back home for the holidays, there was a much larger B&M with a great selection of cigars, a nice selection of accessories, and a knowledgeable staff. I went in there with my nephew. I spent $65 on cigars and my nephew bought some accessories. We sat and smoked a cigar and relaxed in some nice leather chairs. If that store was located where I live now, I would be a regular.

Jimmy-Just an FYI. I sent an email to you at your shop.


Cheers,



Mike T.

[Miket156]

I have to give a shout out to Jimmy Zaid, one of our members that owns a cigar shop outside of Houston TX and also wholesales to other stores in Texas. I found Jimmy on this website and I emailed him for prices. I placed my order and it shipped Thursday from his locaton in Pearland Texas. My order was on my door step this morning here in Central PA! His prices are competitive or lower than the national internet stores and I got the best service I ever had, no BS. Both boxes of Cigars I ordered were fresh and in sealed boxes as we would expect, the supplies were good order, and he through in a couple of free cigars for giving him a try! His handle is RandJCigars on this site. If you look him up, all his contact information is there.

I don't know if its appropriate for me to provide his phone number and email address or not, so I'll let that slide. Members of this Forum can find him easily on this site, he is a listed vendor.

Its nice to deal with "one of our own". :=:


Cheers,


Mike T.

[weetone]

Weird, I know they can't advertise any. Yeah when I worked at a gas station I could not show the tobacco or advertise it, yet in a Irish Pub they had a cigarettes ad. Oh well. Maybe I should figure out what these laws are exactly.

All tobacco products must be covered in any store that sells them, except for stores that are specifically designated as a tobacconist. However, if you're a tobacconist, you are required to black out your front window so that nobody can see in.

The law is the Tobacco Reduction Act - you can view some information on it here:http://www.health.alberta.ca/initiatives/tobacco-reduction.html

As for the advertising, you can still advertise cigarettes in places where everybody is over the age of 18. So, bars are off the hook. As far as I am aware, magazines where readership is over 80% adults can also have some limited advertising.

Finally, you mentioned a local shop that had a young gal working. Burlington on Whyte is the only place to go in the city.

Also, for the guys who mentioned people following you into the humidor. If you're in Canada, as far as I am aware, it is the law that customers not enter unescorted. What's more, you are not actually allowed (by law) to touch the sticks. Employees have got to touch them until you have paid for them. That is the case as far as I'm aware, so if you're North of the 49th, keep that in mind. -(P

[Thammy]

All tobacco products must be covered in any store that sells them, except for stores that are specifically designated as a tobacconist. However, if you're a tobacconist, you are required to black out your front window so that nobody can see in.

The law is the Tobacco Reduction Act - you can view some information on it here:http://www.health.alberta.ca/initiatives/tobacco-reduction.html

As for the advertising, you can still advertise cigarettes in places where everybody is over the age of 18. So, bars are off the hook. As far as I am aware, magazines where readership is over 80% adults can also have some limited advertising.

Finally, you mentioned a local shop that had a young gal working. Burlington on Whyte is the only place to go in the city.

Also, for the guys who mentioned people following you into the humidor. If you're in Canada, as far as I am aware, it is the law that customers not enter unescorted. What's more, you are not actually allowed (by law) to touch the sticks. Employees have got to touch them until you have paid for them. That is the case as far as I'm aware, so if you're North of the 49th, keep that in mind. -(P


Burlington on Whyte is my regular place to go. The place I am talking about is in Saint Albert, where I lived previously. And the laws you posted clarify it for me, thanks.

[Thammy]

Sorry I meant to say, thanks for the clarifying with the laws you posted. (not clarify them further lol)

[replicant_argent]

All tobacco products must be covered in any store that sells them, except for stores that are specifically designated as a tobacconist. However, if you're a tobacconist, you are required to black out your front window so that nobody can see in.

The law is the Tobacco Reduction Act - you can view some information on it here:http://www.health.alberta.ca/initiatives/tobacco-reduction.html

As for the advertising, you can still advertise cigarettes in places where everybody is over the age of 18. So, bars are off the hook. As far as I am aware, magazines where readership is over 80% adults can also have some limited advertising.

Finally, you mentioned a local shop that had a young gal working. Burlington on Whyte is the only place to go in the city.

Also, for the guys who mentioned people following you into the humidor. If you're in Canada, as far as I am aware, it is the law that customers not enter unescorted. What's more, you are not actually allowed (by law) to touch the sticks. Employees have got to touch them until you have paid for them. That is the case as far as I'm aware, so if you're North of the 49th, keep that in mind. -(P
I gotta ask. How is that pile of nonsense bill working out for you folks? Have they measured and "real" impact? In my opinion, it is about as archaic an idea as a chador, and mere pc self-flagellation.

[357]

I gotta ask. How is that pile of nonsense bill working out for you folks? Have they measured and "real" impact? In my opinion, it is about as archaic an idea as a chador, and mere pc self-flagellation.

Can't argue logic vs bleeding-heart liberal policies. Adult human beings can't possibly be able to make informed choices on legal products that might negatively affect their health. Such responsibility can only be entrusted to the government. :rolleyes:

;s