Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke

[weak_link]

What's the most dynamic or complex regular production smoke you've had recently? I really enjoy cigars with distinct changes throughout the cigar and curious what's good right now. Been smoking pretty much the same stuff for the past year or so and be curious to try some new things.

No one note wonders in this thread, I'm really interested in smokes that taste one way at the beginning and end up tasting like a different smoke by the end.

[bishjd123]

I had a Davidoff Special R. The flavors changed about five times. It was almost hard to keep up with the changes. There was a point in the middle that I distinctly remember; the taste of black licorice. For me, that’s been the most complex cigar in my short time in the hobby.

[akumushi]

It's hard to find that kind of complexity outside of Habanos, IMO. The few NCs I've had that are good, complex and change remarkably from start to finish have pretty much all been limited editions of some sort. The LP Flying Pig, Tat SW Reserva Maduro, and Tat Boris all come to mind. However, if you want to make the most of an NC line you like, the shape and size of the vitola you choose has a lot to do with the way a cigar develops and changes its "tonal color" as you smoke. If you're looking for the most difference from start to finish in any particular line of cigars, the perfecto and figurado are a good place to start. The shape and changing ring gauge guarantee a changing ratio of filler, binder and wrapper, which leads to a change in even the most basic blend. Also, I find that most churchills and DCs change a bit simply because of the physics of the cigar, from light and faint in the beginning to richer and darker at the end. Lanceros also do this to a lesser extent. Stay away from petit robustos, robustos and toros, if you're looking for dynamics. I find that their short length and wide girth actually makes them much more consistant in flavor from start to finish. They can still be complex, in the sense that you get many layers of flavor at once, but this profile tends to remain consistant throughout the cigar.
If you have access to Habanos, the list is pretty much endless, as anything but the cheapest tripa cortas will develop somewhat from start to finish, with some of the Churchills and DCs being real rollercoaster rides. Partagas, H Upman, Ramon Allones and Bolivar all have very strong basic blends that provide a lot of variety, wheras the lighter marcas like Quai D'Orsay and Hoyo De Monterey can be a little less dynamic.:2

[weak_link]

If you have access to Habanos,

That's almost all I smoke but wanted to see if there is anything interesting on the NC side. :)

[pinotguy]

To piggy-back on akumushi's thoughts, I'd say the two smokes that fit what you're looking for would be both of the Tatuaje RC's. These are both (giant) perfectos and, to me, have to be considered some of the most complex NC's out there. They are big, to be sure, and require a definite time commitment but are most rewarding.

[thegoldenmackid]

Opus with five years...? ISOMs are always going to win this one IMO.

[Adriftpanda]

Is this what you do when you flake on herfing? Bish, Eric!

[jimmyk26]

There are two that come to mind for me:
1. Davidoff Maduros
2. LP #9

If you are in the mood for an NC maduro, you'll never go wrong with those two. Not that you are specifically asking for a maduro cigar, I just think that if you are considering the most complex NC's these are the two that immediately come to mind.

[akumushi]

There are two that come to mind for me:
1. Davidoff Maduros
2. LP #9

If you are in the mood for an NC maduro, you'll never go wrong with those two. Not that you are specifically asking for a maduro cigar, I just think that if you are considering the most complex NC's these are the two that immediately come to mind.

I'm generally not a huge maduro fan, but I have also noticed that the maduro wrapped NCs are generally more complex than their natural counterparts.

[tsolomon]

Have you tried the Illusione HL or the Tatauaje Especiales? I find these two lanceros to be complex cigars that I always enjoy from start to finish. I still try a lot of different NCs looking for complex and dynamic and I would suggest trying some of the Viajes cigars. I like the 50/50 and the Platino lancero. :2

[weak_link]

Have you tried the Illusione HL or the Tatauaje Especiales? I find these two lanceros to be complex cigars that I always enjoy from start to finish. I still try a lot of different NCs looking for complex and dynamic and I would suggest trying some of the Viajes cigars. I like the 50/50 and the Platino lancero. :2

Those are some of my favorite NC's, nice taste you've got there!

[weak_link]

Is this what you do when you flake on herfing? Bish, Eric!

It's not flaking if I never said I was going bish!! Got the kiddo today and couldn't get a sitter so I could come play.

[MiamiE]

Great post Clayton! :tu

[icehog3]

Great post Clayton! :tu

Absolutely. :2

[Ismith75]

V Figurado

[ninjavanish]

I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars...

Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.

[weak_link]

All the suggestions have been fantastic but unfortunately for me, I'm familiar with, and enjoy most of them. Was hoping for something new to catch my eye but guess that even with all the new blends coming out all the time my old favorites are still at the top of the pile, the exception being the Liga Privada which I've for some reason avoided. I'll be sure to scoop up a couple since they do seem to get a lot of 'press' around here. Thanks to those who have posted and I encourage more to do so if you have something you love but don't see it listed here.

[weak_link]

I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars...

Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.

While notes of spoiled trout rolling into dogie doo-doo are wonderful I was hoping for something a bit...different.

[RevSmoke]

Coronados seem to fit this bill.

[Ismith75]

Coronados seem to fit this bill.

One of my favorites! :banger

[weak_link]

Coronados seem to fit this bill.

I'm not familiar with the Coronados, fantastic!

edit** just looked this one up, I see it's a LFD. The chisel is one of the only cigars to sit my butt back down and then turn me green. Is the Coranados in the same league in terms of Vita N?

[Ismith75]

Try the corona or the churchill. The churchill is unreal. :dr

[ninjavanish]

I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars...

Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.

Ok fine.

So you don't like cremosas.

But in all seriousness... I don't think you need vary off into Liga Privada land or into the realm of tatauje or illusione or any real boutique cigars to find what you're looking for.

Believe me when i say I don't have anything against tatuaje or illusione but i feel like if you're looking for something with complexity then you need look no further than a fuente chateau queen b... Or a sun grown double chateau

Or perhaps maybe something as simple as a nc fonseca 5-5 maduro.

There are tons and tons of cigars out there that offer complexity. I feel like people get a little too enamored with the tatuaje and illusione and the marketing whizzes that they forget about some of the cigars that have been around... Possibly in semi-obscurity, for years and years.

For instance... I don't think you even need to mention the name tatuaje or even the thought of a cc (as it seems some have) to agree that the world of nc's offers a vastly wider variety of blends, bodies, flavor, complexity, and uniqueness.

Ive got nothing against cc's but i cant help but feel like they have been so far surpassed in quality and variety by nc's since the cigar boom that the only real appeal they have is merely their unique puro identity of isom tobacco.

I don't know really, obviously everyones tastes are different but I feel like the replies in this thread have been so repetitive that someone ought to say

"branch out! Find a complex cigar that YOU like... For yourself! The journey to that discovery will be as intriguing as the discovery itself!"

Not at all trying to be inflammatory to any of the botls who previously posted... Whose opinions i respect greatly... Simply trying to offer some different points of view.

[icehog3]

Ive got nothing against cc's but i cant help but feel like they have been so far surpassed in quality and variety by nc's since the cigar boom that the only real appeal they have is merely their unique puro identity of isom tobacco.



Opinions may vary.

Try lots of cigars, then smoke what you like, like what you smoke.

[Emjaysmash]

I'm not familiar with the Coronados, fantastic!

edit** just looked this one up, I see it's a LFD. The chisel is one of the only cigars to sit my butt back down and then turn me green. Is the Coranados in the same league in terms of Vita N?

No, these aren't as full of Vitamin N. also, they're a lot better then the LFDs IMHO.

[Ismith75]

No, these aren't as full of Vitamin N. also, they're a lot better then the LFDs IMHO.

My thoughts exactly. You wouldn't know it's something from LG without the name. Full bodied but unbelievably smooth.

[KillerCelt]

Or a sun grown double chateau


:dr

[ninjavanish]

Opinions may vary.

Try lots of cigars, then smoke what you like, like what you smoke.

Absolutely right.


And ill admit I stereotyped cc's there w bit but the point I was trying to make is that simply being a cc does not make a cigar complex. In fact I tend to think more the opposite... At least in many cases.

Not to say they are bad cigars by any means because there are tons that I like... But from a shear complexity standpoint... I cant help but feel this battle is being won by nc's rather than cc's.

But as as you said. Opinions vary... And when it all comes down to it... Smoke what you like! And enjoy!

[longknocker]

Absolutely right.


And ill admit I stereotyped cc's there w bit but the point I was trying to make is that simply being a cc does not make a cigar complex. In fact I tend to think more the opposite... At least in many cases.

Not to say they are bad cigars by any means because there are tons that I like... But from a shear complexity standpoint... I cant help but feel this battle is being won by nc's rather than cc's.

But as as you said. Opinions vary... And when it all comes down to it... Smoke what you like! And enjoy!

Good Points, Brother!:tu The Double SG Fuente Was Probably The First Cigar I Really Fell In Love With; I Had Forgotten About It After Smoking Mostly Tats, Illusiones, &+ Viajes!

[Salvelinus]

Stay away from petit robustos, robustos and toros, if you're looking for dynamics. I find that their short length and wide girth actually makes them much more consistant in flavor from start to finish. They can still be complex, in the sense that you get many layers of flavor at once, but this profile tends to remain consistant throughout the cigar.

But Clayton, that's the sweet spot. It's the only spot worth smoking :D

[akumushi]

Ok fine.

So you don't like cremosas.

But in all seriousness... I don't think you need vary off into Liga Privada land or into the realm of tatauje or illusione or any real boutique cigars to find what you're looking for.

Believe me when i say I don't have anything against tatuaje or illusione but i feel like if you're looking for something with complexity then you need look no further than a fuente chateau queen b... Or a sun grown double chateau

Or perhaps maybe something as simple as a nc fonseca 5-5 maduro.

There are tons and tons of cigars out there that offer complexity. I feel like people get a little too enamored with the tatuaje and illusione and the marketing whizzes that they forget about some of the cigars that have been around... Possibly in semi-obscurity, for years and years.

For instance... I don't think you even need to mention the name tatuaje or even the thought of a cc (as it seems some have) to agree that the world of nc's offers a vastly wider variety of blends, bodies, flavor, complexity, and uniqueness.

Ive got nothing against cc's but i cant help but feel like they have been so far surpassed in quality and variety by nc's since the cigar boom that the only real appeal they have is merely their unique puro identity of isom tobacco.

I don't know really, obviously everyones tastes are different but I feel like the replies in this thread have been so repetitive that someone ought to say

"branch out! Find a complex cigar that YOU like... For yourself! The journey to that discovery will be as intriguing as the discovery itself!"

Not at all trying to be inflammatory to any of the botls who previously posted... Whose opinions i respect greatly... Simply trying to offer some different points of view.
I certainly agree that Fuente and Padron get less love than they really ought to, but that is not to say that the boutique brands are not putting out an excellent product that satisfies a lot of people.
Also, as far as NC vs CC complexity goes, I would say that NCs have a chewier, more complex mouthfeel, whereas a lot of CCs have a unique but less varied and slightly thinner mouthfeel. If I were a pure mouth-smoker I'd agree that NCs are more complex.
However, when you get into the nose and really start snorking the cigar, I can't honestly take anyone seriously who says NCs are more complex than CCs. Most NCs are either flat and devoid of aroma, or a shot of pure burning pepper in the nose. The reason I smoke mostly CCs is because in my experience there is nothing as rich and varied on the retro-exhale than Cuban tobacco.
Since mouthfeel generally stays consistant from start to finish, and I find most of the development of a cigar is in the nuances and faint aromas in the nose, in the context of the OP, where he asks for dynamics, CCs will still win hands down for me everytime.
The trick to finding cigars you like is trying a wide variety, and I would challenge any smoker that discounts the depth of variety of either side, CC or NC, to try a wider swath of the market before saying that one is or is not varied or complex. They both have their relative strengths and weaknesses.

[weak_link]

The reason I smoke mostly CCs is because in my experience there is nothing as rich and varied on the retro-exhale than Cuban tobacco.


This crystallizes my feelings on CC's and why my vino and humidors are stocked nearly 98% with them. I was hoping I had missed something along the way the last few years but I keep going back to my commie sticks for all the reasons you've stated.

[Bill86]

Most NCs are either flat and devoid of aroma, or a shot of pure burning pepper in the nose.

I don't know about them being devoid of aroma as my allergies have my nose smelling for S*it 50% of the year, but I will agree many times have I received a VERY hot blast of pepper throughout my nose. So for the most part when I smoke NC's I'll retro exhale maybe 1-2 times per 1/3 and that's it. I will say CC's, well the 7-8 different ones I've smoked, are much easier on the nose. I still feel I am too much of a noob to comment on complexity so I won't. But I still can understand that if you are a nasal smoker CC's would be a better experience for you. However I think if you smoke purely mouth or mostly, you probably would smoke closer to fifty-fifty NC/CC.

[RevSmoke]

I'm not familiar with the Coronados, fantastic!

edit** just looked this one up, I see it's a LFD. The chisel is one of the only cigars to sit my butt back down and then turn me green. Is the Coranados in the same league in terms of Vita N?

Try the corona or the churchill. The churchill is unreal. :dr

No, these aren't as full of Vitamin N. also, they're a lot better then the LFDs IMHO.

My thoughts exactly. You wouldn't know it's something from LG without the name. Full bodied but unbelievably smooth.

Coronados are complex, with a wonderful aroma, some sweetness and spice. The nic hit isn't in the same league as the LFD DL line. And personally, I normally am not a fan of any of the LFDs except for the Air Benders. You can keep the rest of them as far as I am concerned.

If you want to get into some more money, then I'd suggest the Litto Gomez Diez lines, they also have some great flavors and wonderful complexity.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[akumushi]

I don't know about them being devoid of aroma as my allergies have my nose smelling for S*it 50% of the year, but I will agree many times have I received a VERY hot blast of pepper throughout my nose. So for the most part when I smoke NC's I'll retro exhale maybe 1-2 times per 1/3 and that's it. I will say CC's, well the 7-8 different ones I've smoked, are much easier on the nose. I still feel I am too much of a noob to comment on complexity so I won't. But I still can understand that if you are a nasal smoker CC's would be a better experience for you. However I think if you smoke purely mouth or mostly, you probably would smoke closer to fifty-fifty NC/CC.

I totally agree. It's a pet theory of mine that NCs appeal to mouth smokers whereas most CC smokers prefer smoking nasally. I just got over a cold and have lingering nasal congestion and I've been sticking to NCs because it would simply be a waste to smoke a CC if I can't smell, whereas with an NC I can get close to full enjoyment by smoking out of the mouth with only a dozen or so short snorks throughout the cigar. The flavors are not quite as rich without a keen sense of smell, but it's acceptable.
The interesting thing is, I find that I have to have a completely different approach/technique of smoking between NC and CC. With NCs I blow the smoke out over a curled tongue with a lapping motion, maybe even swishing the smoke around a little, then puff a tiny bit of smoke out at the end, whereas CCs get a big snork up front and a tiny bit of a taste as I blow out the remaining smoke.

[Bill86]

I'm in the same boat as you, which is why I haven't had a CC in a good month or so. Maybe even longer than that. But my sinuses are clearly up quite nicely so maybe on a good day if it's warm out I'll be able to start enjoying CC's. Tennessee plays hell on my allergies which I never had before I moved here.

[icehog3]

I totally agree. It's a pet theory of mine that NCs appeal to mouth smokers whereas most CC smokers prefer smoking nasally.

I don't think it's a "pet theory" at all, Clayton, lots of my smoking friends and I think that is the case as well.

[weak_link]

I should have also mentioned that my preferred cigar size is roughly a corona. I''m maxed out at 50 ring. That alone limits the field considerably in NC's. :(

[rizzle]

I nasally smoke everything. I just can't understand how so many people feel that blowing smoke through your nose from a cigar of non cuban origin can't be done. Or isn't done. Maybe I've just got a really, insanely strong nasal passage. Or not.

[tsolomon]

Absolutely right.


And ill admit I stereotyped cc's there w bit but the point I was trying to make is that simply being a cc does not make a cigar complex. In fact I tend to think more the opposite... At least in many cases.

Not to say they are bad cigars by any means because there are tons that I like... But from a shear complexity standpoint... I cant help but feel this battle is being won by nc's rather than cc's.

But as as you said. Opinions vary... And when it all comes down to it... Smoke what you like! And enjoy!I'm at the point where comparing the two just doesn't work for me. I find that CC's are a better smoke start to finish for taste and complexity and with most NC's, I only enjoy the first half before they become one dimensional in taste and complexity. I'm also at the point where there are just too many NCs being introduced to try keeping up with all the new ones being introduced. :2