Vegan dog food?!?!?!?!

[Nefari0us]

I just saw a segment on the morning news talking about how people are now being more conscious of what there pets eat. And they were talking about "vegan" dog food. Personally I think that this is an abomination. If you want to eat nothing but lettuce thats fine. But dogs were not meant to be vegetarians! Just take a look that their teeth! Vegetables were not meant th be eaten by dogs, end of story. What do you guys think?

[yourchoice]

Personally I think that this is an abomination.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[hammondc]

I think it will lead to some very unhealthy dogs. By nature, they are carnivores. I am very specific about what I feed my dog, but this is just so far off base.

[bigdix]

I have a chihuahua. He is only fed live cattle. :D

[Nefari0us]

My dog eats what I eat for the most part. She gets dry dog food and usually some meat (minus seasonings) that I'll cook just for her when I cook dinner

[Subvet642]

A vegan diet can kill a dog. There are vital proteins and amino acids that are only available from animal sources.

[OLS]

I jumped out of my chair when I saw this title....then it sunk in that maybe
you were as outraged as I was. Our society has several dangerous segments
and growing tendencies. Doofus-ism seems to be one of them. I can fully get
behind some idiot's desire to be a walking advert for agressive family planning,
I can even understand some of the reasons to eat less meat, but if any human
being thinks they are going to improve the life choices of their Freaking dog by
showing them the virtues of the vegan lifestyle, I'd like to feed them to their
dogs one chunk at a time. F&$#ing California.

:r:r:r:noon

[Nefari0us]

I jumped out of my chair when I saw this title....then it sunk in that maybe
you were as outraged as I was. Our society has several dangerous segments
and growing tendencies. Doofus-ism seems to be one of them. I can fully get
behind some idiot's desire to be a walking advert for agressive family planning,
I can even understand some of the reasons to eat less meat, but if any human
being thinks they are going to improve the life choices of their Freaking dog by
showing them the virtues of the vegan lifestyle, I'd like to feed them to their
dogs one chunk at a time. F&$#ing California.

:r:r:r:noon

Well said!

[OLS]

and usually some meat (minus seasonings) that I'll cook just for her when I cook dinnerI am a bad boy...my dog eats meat covered in RUB, cause that's the way it's cooking,
and I give them a lot of meat off the grill when I smoke ribs and butts. I KNOW garlic is not
good for them, and there is a garlic component in the rub. However I have never seen a
dog killed by rub or chocolate or anything like that. But I think I will start leaving the
scraps intended for the dogs un-rubbed. My sisters dog once polished off 4 easter baskets and
the accompanying foil during the space of one church service and showed no ill effects, so
I think the tests they run in those dog lags must be pretty intense. "Chocolate, when shoved
into a dog from both ends, can cause discomfort and even death if at least 100 lbs of fine
chocolate are used daily for three weeks in a row."

[357]

It's a pretty rediculous concept. The same arguement you made can be made for human diet as well. We, like all other mammal predators, have our eyes in front of our head for depth perception used in hunting, we have "canine" teeth for tearing flesh, and our ears are angled forward so we can pinpoint where sound is coming from (works kinda like visual depth perception).

Not to mention predators have large brains and tend to be much smarter than their prey given their high protien / high fat diets. Such diets are vital to brain development.

[AD720]

Vegan humans usually supplement their diets in certain ways to make up for the loss of proteins and amino acids.

I would hope that Vegan humans that have vegan dogs are also aware of those dietary limitations.

Our cats, like me, are omnivores. :D

[chenvt]

I'm more conscientious about what my dog eats which is why I feed him top level dog food with a high protein content.. and bacon

but vegan dog food? Please..

[Blueface]

I wouldn't go that far with mine to put him on a veggie diet.
That is nuts.
Dogs are still 99% wolves.
Wolves eat meat.

I do however have mine on an all natural raw meat diet.
It is comprised of raw meat along with organic vegetables.
He loves it.
Use to be stubborn to eat, now can't wait for the next meal.
Comes frozen and I thaw out 24 hours in advance, in one ounce cubes.
Recommended by vet and makes total sense when you think about it as grain in the food is used as a filler and not good for them as not intended to be digested by them.

[mosesbotbol]

Vegan dog food is good for a dog with a food allergy and helping figure out which meat may be an issue. One may go with Vegan dog food and just feed pure meat treats to target specific nutritional needs as well.

[OLS]

Oh, and I do not hate California. That part was satire. My departed father, however,
used to call them "Those California Radicals". This was back in the late 60's and early
70's. I don't remember him ever capping on hippies, though.

As for the argument Carlos put forth, this is very true, most cheap dog food is heavy
on grains and vegetable meal anyway. And most people tend to buy the cheapest or
cheap to middle-est dog food they can find. So it gets worse. I don't even own dogs,
I feed my landlady's dogs with food she buys, or as I said, right off the grill on the
weekends, which they love. She buys them IAMS, although I would not. At least not
all the time. If I was those dogs, I would revolt. You should see the ravenous behavior
they exhibit when she runs out and I buy them some carryover of Beneful from Biglots in
a small bag. The aromas, tastes and textures drive em nuts.

[neoflex]

I jumped out of my chair when I saw this title....then it sunk in that maybe
you were as outraged as I was. Our society has several dangerous segments
and growing tendencies. Doofus-ism seems to be one of them. I can fully get
behind some idiot's desire to be a walking advert for agressive family planning,
I can even understand some of the reasons to eat less meat, but if any human
being thinks they are going to improve the life choices of their Freaking dog by
showing them the virtues of the vegan lifestyle, I'd like to feed them to their
dogs one chunk at a time. F&$#ing California.
:tpd:
People are out of control. It could just be my experience but did you ever notice that people who follow a vegan lifestyle always feel the need to share it with anyone and everyone ? "Yay, good for you!" I don't go out with friends for dinner and feel the need to announce "I will eat everything and anything put in front of me.":r I bet some of those same people go home and hide in a closet and gnaw on a rib.:r I can care less what lifestyle you choose but it just pisses me off when the same people try and convince you that you need to follow their same lifestyle. Now we have idiots trying to have their pets follow their lifestyle even though it could be detrimental to their health.:td

[massphatness]

My dog likes carrots as an occassional snack.

Her diet is primarily meat-based protien though.

[babybob2k]

I think switching a dog to a vegan diet is irresponsible at the very least.

I think dog's are pretty crafty, and can take care of a fair amount of things themselves. If I took all meat away from mine, I'd be waking up a few times during the night to make sure my leg was still there. I hope these vegans have small dogs with dull teeth....... :eek: :r

[OLS]

Funny thing about dogs is they are SO Monkey-see, Monkey-do when it comes to food.
Some things they could CARE LESS about until they see a human eating it.

I had a Satsuma tree in my back yard as a kid, and we would go up and pick one off the
tree and start peeling and munching away, just as sweet as honey. So one day we start to
see them on the ground, smashed and reamed out, and our dog was biting them off the
tree and busting them up and eating them. When some dogs see you eating citrus, they
get that 'left out' look, then you give them a slice and they lick it and look back at you
like, "NO, I want THAT! That thing you're eating". doofi

[Blueface]

While they come in different meat types such as chicken, lamb, beef, turkey and sardine and on and on, and I give him all, here is the chicken as an example.
It contains lots of veggies but the main ingredient and focus is raw meat.
Nothing too good for my best friend.
He is slim and trim.
His coat is healthy.
He is a 13 year old that has the energy of a puppy.

So, while primarily meat based, this diet does contain a large aspect of "veggies" as I come to think of it.

Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Necks, Ground Chicken Bones, Chicken Hearts, Organic Kale, Organic Carrots, Organic Yams, Chicken Livers, Organic Broccoli, Organic Apples, Organic Ground Flaxseed, Cranberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Parsley, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Kelp, Alfalfa, Mixed Tocopherols (source of vitamin E).

[Blueface]

From my vet's website regarding this subject of veggie only diet for dogs.
Interesting article.
He clearly does not support it.
He is a great doc that helped me tremendously with my Maltese when he first got cancer.


Vegetarian Feeding of Dogs and Cats
Many of the clients in my practice are strict vegetarians. Their reasons range from an interest in natural health care to concern for cruelty to animals. This lifestyle has proven tremendously beneficial for them and the natural assumption is that a similar nutritional approach would benefit their dogs and cats as well. Personally, I am against feeding vegetarian foods to dogs and cats. My reason is clear and simple - dogs and cats are carnivores! I know that many purveyors of pet products like to paint dogs as omnivores, but their teeth and digestive system are clearly those of a carnivore. If that isn't enough, an hour or two watching nature programs will convince all but the most brainwashed individuals that canines eat an animal based diet.

The reason many people claim that dogs are not strict carnivores is that there is no KNOWN nutrient that a canine cannot obtain or synthesize from plant ingredients. This is a tenuous argument at best. It is only arrogance that leads anyone to believe that he or she knows every nutrient that is needed by any species. It was just a few years ago that the necessity of taurine in the feline diet was discovered. In addition, the fact that the body can manufacture a nutrient does not indicate that a dietary source of that nutrient is not necessary. Perhaps the body's daily need is greater than it can produce. Recent studies bear this out. It has been found that while dogs can manufacture the amino acid carnitine from dietary ingredients, they also urinate out a larger quantity of carnitine than was previously thought. Without a dietary source of carnitine, it is very difficult for a dog to have adequate levels available for healthy muscle function. Carnitine is only found in animal tissues! In felines, the amino acid taurine is a necessary dietary component; it, too, is only found in animal tissue. While both of these amino acids are available as synthetic supplements, I don't believe that is anywhere near the same quality as obtained in a natural diet. There a number of other nutrients known to be necessary for felines such as active vitamin A (which they cannot synthesize at all), which are only found in animal tissues. Perhaps in the future, such nutrients will be discovered for dogs, as well.

Another problem with using vegetarian diets is not what is lacking but what they actually contain. Vegetarian recipes consist mostly of vegetables, grains and soy products. By nature, carnivores eat virtually no grains or soy products. These foods are very high in carbohydrates which are almost unheard of in the wild carnivore's diet. Metabolically, carnivores are not designed to use carbohydrates in such a large quantity. The result is a weakening of the health of the animal and an increased tendency to obesity. I also believe the high carbohydrate content of pet foods (vegetarian or not) leads to dental problems, too.

So why do a growing number of people recommend vegetarian diets for dogs and cats? There are several reasons:

1) Ignorance of their true nature and needs

2) Having an agenda to convert all people and animals to vegetarianism for animals rights reasons

3) Capitalizing monetarily on people following #2.

4) Knowing an animal that has done well on a vegetarian diet

Numbers one, two and three above are self explanatory. Number four may seem contradictory to what I have been saying. Let me try to clarify why a pet's symptoms may improve on a vegetarian diet. When animal protein is cooked as it is in pet food production, they become far more difficult to digest and are more irritating to the immune system. This can result in symptoms such as digestive problems, skin eruptions and a variety of others that may be labeled as a food allergy or a myriad of other diagnoses. When the offending protein is removed from the diet, the symptoms improve. I believe it is the absence of the offending protein not the presence of the vegetarian ingredients that results in the reduction of symptoms. Unfortunately, the lack of proper protein is likely to rear its head later in terms of other health problems. I have yet to see a vegetarian dog or cat that looked as good as a healthy, meat fed one. I know that there are many people out there who have a story to tell about a vegetarian pet who lived to be very old. There are exceptions to every rule, but I wouldn't risk my pet's life on it.

Please take note that I am not insensitive to the problem of animal suffering in the factory farm environment. As a veterinarian, I have seen it personally. The problem is that if a dog or cat is being fed a vegetarian diet, then that animal is likely to suffer as a result of malnutrition. With either a meat based or vegetable based diet, animal suffering will occur. Do we have the moral right to force our carnivores to suffer on a vegetarian diet because we have made a personal choice for our own lifestyle? For many people, this is a very difficult decision and there is no perfect answer.

Russell Swift, DVM, HMC

[357]

Many people think giving dogs/cats animal bones is bad or dangerous. In reality it can be true, of cooked bones. They are hard, brittle, and sharp when broken. This can cause injury in your pet. When chicken bones are raw, they are softer and fine for most dogs to eat. In fact in many countries where "pet food" is not readily available most dogs eat nothing but raw chicken bones.

[jledou]

my beagle will eat most fruits and vegetables sans peas, broccoli and green beans (see a theme there) but he will turn his nose up at any of them if there is the option for a hot dog, sausage, hamburger, steak, etc.

[G G]

I have a chihuahua. He is only fed live cattle. :D

Mine too woohoo.

[Blueface]

my beagle will eat most fruits and vegetables sans peas, broccoli and green beans (see a theme there) but he will turn his nose up at any of them if there is the option for a hot dog, sausage, hamburger, steak, etc.

Wait and see if you give him a raw diet.
Whenever I am grilling steaks or making burgers, that dog is patiently waiting for his raw patty to be served.
80/20, 90/10, filet, sirloin, he just plain doesn't care.:r

[Subvet642]

I've even read of people feeding their cats whole prey animals; fur, feathers and all.

[Nefari0us]

I've even read of people feeding their cats whole prey animals; fur, feathers and all.

My cats find there own prey lol... they actually eat a lot of mice and moles. It's the worst when i find a half eaten mouse in the house. Well worse, is when I dont find the half eaten mouse until I can smell it

[Subvet642]

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=460&pictureid=4835

YUM!

[hotreds]

I guess we all agree that the very thought of vegan dog food is insane to the max.

[shilala]

I am a bad boy...my dog eats meat covered in RUB, cause that's the way it's cooking,
and I give them a lot of meat off the grill when I smoke ribs and butts. I KNOW garlic is not
good for them, and there is a garlic component in the rub. However I have never seen a
dog killed by rub or chocolate or anything like that. But I think I will start leaving the
scraps intended for the dogs un-rubbed. My sisters dog once polished off 4 easter baskets and
the accompanying foil during the space of one church service and showed no ill effects, so
I think the tests they run in those dog lags must be pretty intense. "Chocolate, when shoved
into a dog from both ends, can cause discomfort and even death if at least 100 lbs of fine
chocolate are used daily for three weeks in a row."
Are we talking about the "Swiss chocolate", so to say?

[shilala]

my beagle will eat most fruits and vegetables sans peas, broccoli and green beans (see a theme there) but he will turn his nose up at any of them if there is the option for a hot dog, sausage, hamburger, steak, etc.
My lab would eat anything. He'd even pick his own berries when we went berry picking, once I showed him how to do it. Before that, he'd just wait and beg.
If he dragged dinner home, it wasn't normally a basket of apples, it was a rib cage or a nice hind quarter.
That's probably a pretty good argument to preference, too. :)

[akumushi]

Reminds me of this Futurama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSLQu-d6ZQ).

[shark]

My cats find there own prey lol... they actually eat a lot of mice and moles. It's the worst when i find a half eaten mouse in the house. Well worse, is when I dont find the half eaten mouse until I can smell it
Wait until one of them walks up to you with a beheaded rat in its mouth, and drops it at your feet.:dr:D

I agree, though. Dogs and cats are carnivores, NOT vegetarians. Humans, though, are omnivores.

[Volt]

Mine loves meat - cats, squirrels, wabbits.... What ever is dumb enough to try a mad dash accross the backyard.

[mosesbotbol]

We started making sweet potato dog treats in our food dehydrator that Camber likes. Costs next to nothing too.

I feed her big bones like pork shoulder or lamb leg, but watch while she is chewing so she doesn't choke or hurt herself.

[AD720]

Wait a second, is the dog food made of real vegans?

[Nefari0us]

Wait a second, is the dog food made of real vegans?

Awesome comment! :banger

[kaisersozei]

When animal protein is cooked as it is in pet food production, they become far more difficult to digest and are more irritating to the immune system. This can result in symptoms such as digestive problems, skin eruptions and a variety of others that may be labeled as a food allergy or a myriad of other diagnoses. When the offending protein is removed from the diet, the symptoms improve. I believe it is the absence of the offending protein not the presence of the vegetarian ingredients that results in the reduction of symptoms.

Thanks for this article, my vet feels the same--the piece I quoted relates to problems that we've encountered with our pug (who acts more like a cat than a dog, anyway.) He couldn't tolerate beef, chicken or lamb for some reason, so the vet experimented with all kinds of diet modifications. Went through a vegan/grain heavy diet for awhile then offered the option of adding in one of the following types of animal protein: duck, pork, fish and kangaroo. We went with kangaroo, and he's now eating like a champ.

[Nefari0us]

Thanks for this article, my vet feels the same--the piece I quoted relates to problems that we've encountered with our pug (who acts more like a cat than a dog, anyway.) He couldn't tolerate beef, chicken or lamb for some reason, so the vet experimented with all kinds of diet modifications. Went through a vegan/grain heavy diet for awhile then offered the option of adding in one of the following types of animal protein: duck, pork, fish and kangaroo. We went with kangaroo, and he's now eating like a champ.

Where, might I ask, does one obtain Kangaroo meat? And is it fit for human consumption lol

[Subvet642]

Where, might I ask, does one obtain Kangaroo meat? And is it fit for human consumption lol

My guess is from a kangaroo. :D

[357]

Where, might I ask, does one obtain Kangaroo meat? And is it fit for human consumption lol

I hear it is commonly eaten down under. Like venison is here, or so I've heard.

[babybob2k]

Where, might I ask, does one obtain Kangaroo meat? And is it fit for human consumption lol

http://www.exoticmeatsandmore.com/kangaroo.aspx

:D

[Blueface]

Thanks for this article, my vet feels the same--the piece I quoted relates to problems that we've encountered with our pug (who acts more like a cat than a dog, anyway.) He couldn't tolerate beef, chicken or lamb for some reason, so the vet experimented with all kinds of diet modifications. Went through a vegan/grain heavy diet for awhile then offered the option of adding in one of the following types of animal protein: duck, pork, fish and kangaroo. We went with kangaroo, and he's now eating like a champ.

If you want to read up some more on his thoughts, here is his site:
www.therightremedy.com

[gvarsity]

So is the vegan dog food tested on animals? I can't tolerate animal testing. :D

[LasciviousXXX]

IMO, dogs should eat other dogs... preferably smaller ones :D

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/LasciviousXXX/cebcd2c8.jpg

My dog, about to eat Echo's dog :lr

[LasciviousXXX]

LOL, nah they're buds

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o278/LasciviousXXX/0aa34b11.jpg


My Rottie has a sensitive stomach, like most other Rotties. However, he does really well on Innova Evo Red Meat blend. No grains, high protein but good balance. I dig it

[kaisersozei]

Where, might I ask, does one obtain Kangaroo meat? And is it fit for human consumption lol

:D It's a prescription (read $$$$!) dog food that has kangaroo meat as it's main protein source. We get the kibble, I think it's a Eukanuba vet product.

[TheTraveler]

My dog eats vegans.

:D

[mariogolbee]

A vegan diet can kill a dog. There are vital proteins and amino acids that are only available from animal sources.

I'm not sure about the physiology of canines but we humans form most of the proteins and amino acids we need within our own bodies. The rest can be easily supplemented with nuts and a few other foods.

I have no position on the vegan dog issue but I imagine it could be perfectly healthy for dogs. Doesn't most dog food come out of a can or bag anyway? If the dog enjoys it and the food provides what it needs does it matter whether it contains meat products? These questions obviously have no bearing on those whom feed their dogs actual meat.

[T.G]

I wouldn't go that far with mine to put him on a veggie diet.
That is nuts.
Dogs are still 99% wolves.
Wolves eat meat.

I do however have mine on an all natural raw meat diet.
It is comprised of raw meat along with organic vegetables.
He loves it.
Use to be stubborn to eat, now can't wait for the next meal.
Comes frozen and I thaw out 24 hours in advance, in one ounce cubes.
Recommended by vet and makes total sense when you think about it as grain in the food is used as a filler and not good for them as not intended to be digested by them.

While they come in different meat types such as chicken, lamb, beef, turkey and sardine and on and on, and I give him all, here is the chicken as an example.
It contains lots of veggies but the main ingredient and focus is raw meat.
Nothing too good for my best friend.
He is slim and trim.
His coat is healthy.
He is a 13 year old that has the energy of a puppy.

So, while primarily meat based, this diet does contain a large aspect of "veggies" as I come to think of it.

Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Necks, Ground Chicken Bones, Chicken Hearts, Organic Kale, Organic Carrots, Organic Yams, Chicken Livers, Organic Broccoli, Organic Apples, Organic Ground Flaxseed, Cranberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Parsley, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Kelp, Alfalfa, Mixed Tocopherols (source of vitamin E).

If you want to read up some more on his thoughts, here is his site:
www.therightremedy.com


Thanks for the info Carlos.

What brand of food are you using?

[justonemorestick]

Reminds me of this Futurama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSLQu-d6ZQ).

That was just the episode I was thinking about.

I personally feed my Dane dry kibble lamb and rice and he seems to be doing great 28"+ and over 75lbs at 6 months. My rott had a fatty tumor and when I got away from a corm based feed it is reducing without any intervention. So is important to feed a dog proper food rather than some goofy new age vegan diet.

[Blueface]

Thanks for the info Carlos.

What brand of food are you using?

Here you go:
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/

[SvilleKid]

A vegan diet can kill a dog. There are vital proteins and amino acids that are only available from animal sources.

Yep. This is well documented. The only problem..... Ever read the ingredient label for most dry dog foods? Almost all are nearly "Vegan" already. Full of a bunch of grains, very little meat-based proteins.

My dog(s) get table scraps, supplemented by good quality dog foods when needed. Most of my dogs live well past the normal live expectancy, so the diet must be working. Including the poultry bones. Never had a dog choke on a bone in the 50+ years I've been feeding them to dogs. Checked with my mother. She's 81. Fed their dogs scraps all their lives, never had one choke on a bone. Lots of good iron and protein in the marrow of those bones!!!

[T.G]

Here you go:
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/

Thanks bro.

[mosesbotbol]

Raw turkey necks are great for larger dogs.