May be a dumb question, but I gotta ask

[forgop]

Do you notice real differences in a cigar of the same line but a different shape? For example, if given an Oliva Serie V that is a lancero, a torpedo, or a double toro, do you feel like they will provide different experiences from one another? Obviously people prefer certain vitolas for certain reasons, whether it is a cigar that smokes for a certain duration or what not, but I was just curious if you see much difference in taste.

[elderboy02]

Yep.... I notice a difference. Mostly in CC's, but since this is in the NC forum here is what I found:

I like the Tatuaje Red Labels, but only in the thin RG (victoria's). It has a completely different taste than the robustos and larger RG cigars.

I like the new blend El Triunfador in the No. 1 (lonsdale) size. The bigger RG's don't do it for me.

[dwoodward]

Ever notice how limited release cigars will usually only come in 1 Vitola? It is said it is that way because that is the way the manufacturer wants you to experience that cigar. If it didn't matter, why would they do it?

[forgop]

Yep.... I notice a difference. Mostly in CC's, but since this is in the NC forum here is what I found:

I like the Tatuaje Red Labels, but only in the thin RG (victoria's). It has a completely different taste than the robustos and larger RG cigars.

I like the new blend El Triunfador in the No. 1 (lonsdale) size. The bigger RG's don't do it for me.

To me, I can understand this to some degree I guess because the ring gauge would determine how much smoke would be coming through. Other than that, I don't know that the blend is any different, unless the smaller ring gauge would mean a much different composition of the blend itself.

[Patrick B]

I almost always like a certain lines 40-46 rg offering the best. Many in the cigar industry have said the corona is the perfect size to show off exactly what the blend should be...

[ODLS1]

Part of me has never understood this, although I can see how a smaller size/gauge would reduce the amount of smoke, thus reducing the amount of flavor. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[elderboy02]

To me, I can understand this to some degree I guess because the ring gauge would determine how much smoke would be coming through. Other than that, I don't know that the blend is any different, unless the smaller ring gauge would mean a much different composition of the blend itself.

With a smaller RG, you get more wrapper flavor. The ratio of wrapper:filler is much greater. With larger RG's you have a larger filler:wrapper ratio.

[ODLS1]

With a smaller RG, you get more wrapper flavor. The ratio of wrapper:filler is much greater. With larger RG's you have a larger filler:wrapper ratio.

Aaahhhh. That makes complete sense. Can't believe I didn't realize that.

[NCRadioMan]

Absolutely! Every blend has a size that seems to stand out in the line, imo. In your example, I do think the lancero is the best of the V's. The entire blend was based on the lancero. FWIW, a rep told me that Oliva had made the original lanceros for another company and the deal fell through. Oliva decided to put them out as the Series V and it was an instant hit. Very cool, if true.

Ever notice how limited release cigars will usually only come in 1 Vitola? It is said it is that way because that is the way the manufacturer wants you to experience that cigar. If it didn't matter, why would they do it?

That is true.

When a blender is blending for a regularly produced cigar, they usually base the blend off of corona's and/or robusto's. That's why when trying a new blend, I always reach for the corona if they make one. If not, the robusto. That way, you get to see if you can taste what the blender had in his mind when doing his thang.

[bigdix]

I'm with Dan. It's all about the ratio.

[Don Fernando]

Do you notice real differences in a cigar of the same line but a different shape? For example, if given an Oliva Serie V that is a lancero, a torpedo, or a double toro, do you feel like they will provide different experiences from one another? Obviously people prefer certain vitolas for certain reasons, whether it is a cigar that smokes for a certain duration or what not, but I was just curious if you see much difference in taste.

Absolutely

My experience is that almost every 6x60 cigar of each blend is flat and bland, even from series that I love like the DPG Black. And recently I smoked several Oliva V vitolas and there is a huge difference in flavors.

[forgop]

So, when people talk about how a cigar evolves from start to finish, I can understand the ratio between wrapper/binder/filler producing different flavor profiles between vitolas. When people talk about how a cigar evolves from start to finish, is there an explanation other than how much tobacco the smoke passes through before reaching your mouth when therefor no change in shape like seen in a figurado compared to a "straight" cigar?

I guess I've just never developed my palate in such a way that I can detect all of the perceived flavors when they use words like nuts, earthy, grassy, chocolate, etc. I obviously know whether I like the flavors or not, but that's about it.

[shilala]

...is there an explanation other than how much tobacco the smoke passes through before reaching your mouth when therefor no change in shape like seen in a figurado compared to a "straight" cigar?

I guess I've just never developed my palate in such a way that I can detect all of the perceived flavors when they use words like nuts, earthy, grassy, chocolate, etc. I obviously know whether I like the flavors or not, but that's about it.
On the question, it's yes and no. There's more tobacco for the smoke to pass through, and more tobacco to hold the essences of the burned smoke. As a cigar burns to the end, the cigar will "develop" because of the aggregate "essence" deposited as one smokes.
That's why little cigars and small rings don't "develop" as much and deliver a lot different experience, in my opinion, as compared to the larger rings, and larger ring/longer vitolas.

If you know you like the flavors, you already won the game, my brother. Just enjoy them. :tu

[neoflex]

A good way to experiment with how ring gauge can play a part in taste is to sit down with a Figurado or even a Perfecto and see how the profile changes as you hit different widths of the cigar.

[Da Klugs]

To me, I can understand this to some degree I guess because the ring gauge would determine how much smoke would be coming through. Other than that, I don't know that the blend is any different, unless the smaller ring gauge would mean a much different composition of the blend itself.

The wrapper is one aspect that has a large difference the overall taste of a cigar. In many cases, for me, the thinner the RG the more apparent the wrappers influence on the cigar. Some smaller RG cigars double wrap the wrapper making it even more prominent.

"The blend" is impossible to precisely maintain in varying size cigars. There will be variations in flavor just based upon the differences in the relative amounts of filler, binder and wrapper in different RG cigars.

[hscmit]

yes, I agree with much of what was said above. But imho a larger ring gauge often is a more forgiving cigar ie smoking faster doesn't immediately make it burn too hot, but the flavors don's "pop" the same way with some of the smaller ring gauges.

[wayner123]

I notice a difference, sometimes a vast one, between a cigar of the same line but a different shape. And it has to do with wrapper:filler ratio.



I guess I've just never developed my palate in such a way that I can detect all of the perceived flavors when they use words like nuts, earthy, grassy, chocolate, etc. I obviously know whether I like the flavors or not, but that's about it.

Don't sweat not being able to describe the tastes you are experiencing. This is presently being studied further but the information below may provide some insight as to why you can't describe flavors:

Finally, Small and her colleagues present strong evidence that the final common pathways of taste and smell go to the non-verbal right brain, which has implications for our ability to report thinking processes related to taste and smell; one of the reasons Titchener - and Wundt before him - only reported four tastes was probably that they had difficulty getting people to talk about taste and smell.

[AUguy]

[QUOTE=elderboy02;1015607]Yep.... I notice a difference. Mostly in CC's, but since this is in the NC forum here is what I found:

I like the Tatuaje Red Labels, but only in the thin RG (victoria's). It has a completely different taste than the robustos and larger RG cigars.

QUOTE]


I agree. The Victorias and Angeles are WAY better than the larger sticks of the Havanas.

[icantbejon]

I've often thought about this, and if I was a cigar maker I would think that achieving the same profile throughout the line would be my goal. Clearly that is not the case as people tend to find different flavors with different sticks. It just seems like you'd want it to be the same across the board. A bottle of coke takes just like a can of coke.

[Skywalker]

Size does matter!!!

Don't let anyone tell you different!!!;)

[NCRadioMan]

I've often thought about this, and if I was a cigar maker I would think that achieving the same profile throughout the line would be my goal. Clearly that is not the case as people tend to find different flavors with different sticks. It just seems like you'd want it to be the same across the board. A bottle of coke takes just like a can of coke.

To me, that's boring. Part of the fun is trying all the different sizes to see which one you like best.

:2

[bobarian]

I've often thought about this, and if I was a cigar maker I would think that achieving the same profile throughout the line would be my goal. Clearly that is not the case as people tend to find different flavors with different sticks. It just seems like you'd want it to be the same across the board. A bottle of coke takes just like a can of coke.

Its the difference between the vitolas that gives each smoker the chance to find the perfect balance for his/her palate. As we are speaking primarily of long filler tobacco, it would be impossible to make each size taste the same as you can only change the blend by adding whole leaves. By homogenizing the tobacco or only using short fillers you could have the same profile across the board, but then you no longer have a premium long filler cigar. Cigars from the same brand will have a similar profile as the tobaccos are from the same bundles, but adding more leaves is bound to change the taste. :2

[mtnphoto]

I am the same as forgop, I have a hard time detecting all of the flavors but know what I like when I smoke it! I guess that's have the battle and the FUN.-(P

[Matt-N-Ga]

I've always had trouble distinguishing delicate flavors. But as for the differences in RG, I can taste the difference between a Serie V Lancero and a Serie V Double Robusto, but cannot notice or distiguish any difference between a Serie V Double Robusto and a Serie V Churchill. The differences are too subtle for my caveman like tastes...Meat good, Grass bad kinda thing...

[mtnphoto]

The differences are too subtle for my caveman like tastes...Meat good, Grass bad kinda thing...

I'm right with you on this one!

[Lumpold]

On the question, it's yes and no. There's more tobacco for the smoke to pass through, and more tobacco to hold the essences of the burned smoke. As a cigar burns to the end, the cigar will "develop" because of the aggregate "essence" deposited as one smokes.
That's why little cigars and small rings don't "develop" as much and deliver a lot different experience, in my opinion, as compared to the larger rings, and larger ring/longer vitolas.

If you know you like the flavors, you already won the game, my brother. Just enjoy them. :tu

When people talk about how a cigar evolves from start to finish, is there an explanation other than how much tobacco the smoke passes through before reaching your mouth when therefor no change in shape like seen in a figurado compared to a "straight" cigar?

I guess I've just never developed my palate in such a way that I can detect all of the perceived flavors when they use words like nuts, earthy, grassy, chocolate, etc. I obviously know whether I like the flavors or not, but that's about it.
In addition to Shilala's answer above, I would also say that as you move down the cigar, you may well find varying amounts of the different filler types, which will, of course, change the flavour profile of the cigar.