My apartment was just changed to "No Smoking"

[jimmyk26]

So I just want to vent a bit, because due a littering problem my apartment building is now "No Smoking" anywhere on the property. It appears that the property manager was "very disappointed" with all of the cigarette butts that he found all over the property and instead of saying that the littering is unacceptable he has gone and banned smoking of any kind anywhere on the property.

I am pretty bummed because I really liked smoking the porch and the apartment is practically perfect in every way. Now it looks like I'll be frequenting my B&Ms more. Any body have an experience like this? What did you do about it?

The wife says, "well we should just buy a place." I agree, but probably in a couple years :r

[KingJaffeJoffer]

That's awful, man. Honestly, if that happened to me I'd make sure I didn't sign away my smoking rights in the lease, and if I didn't I'd just do it anyway until my lease was up. You pay a lot each month to enjoy the comfort of a place, it doesn't seem right that your landlord/company can go and change the terms of what you signed, unless you specifically agreed that they can change the smoking terms. I'm no lawyer, but if I wanted to not smoke, I'd save some money and live with my mom, and I'd def let me management company know that if they ever gave me a problem ;-) Let me know what happens. Good luck, brother.

[Salvelinus]

It completely sucks that most cigarette smokers think it is ok to just drop their butts. The things are fiberglass they don't just disappear. Living in Vermont I find it hilarious how many hippies will ditch a cigarette on the ground and then get after you for using a disposable coffee cup.

Any chance you could talk the guy into putting in some of the cigarette butt cans to try and limit the amount of leftovers on the ground?

[Brutus2600]

Wow...that's simply stunning. Personally, I'd talk to the manager and explain the situation. You only smoke on your porch and I'm sure you take care of your finished cigars. If they won't budge then I'd start looking at your lease agreement and what they can lawfully do. I enjoy going to my B&M, but I that's severely inconvenient if you want to just hop outside for 45 min to smoke at your place.

I know not all cigarette smokers are like this, but it's bothersome to see once again that cigar smokers are lumped in with the cigarette smokers who trash up the property and can't police their butts.

[jimmyk26]

Thanks y'all. I am pretty bummed about it, but we'll see how everything goes.

In the mean time I am trying to figure out some other ways/strategies to enjoy my cigars with out having to go to my B&M every day.

[T.G]

Sit on the hood of his car and light up.

When he comes out to say that there's no smoking on the property and to get off his car, politely explain to him that you're not on the property, you're on his car, and if you were to get off his car, you'd be on the property and you wouldn't want to be an insensitive prick and break the rules like that.

Bonus points for using his open sunroof to tap off your ash.

[Bill86]

Sit on the hood of his car and light up.

When he comes out to say that there's no smoking on the property and to get off his car, politely explain to him that you're not on the property, you're on his car, and if you were to get off his car, you'd be on the property and you wouldn't want to be an insensitive prick and break the rules like that.

Bonus points for using his open sunroof to tap off your ash.

Lol agreed but smoke inside until the last month you rent and worry about it then. I smoked a lot of cigs in the apartment I use to rent, never received any charge or complaint.

[RustyShackleford]

That sucks bro!

The lack of regard of many cigarette smokers have for proper butt disposal is one of the things I started to notice after I took up cigar smoking. I see it all the time on campus and really irritates me.

Salvelinus funny comment about the hippies.
I am usually the one that gets painted as the rightwing loon who does care about the environment but I am sure those fiberglass butts are great for it -(P

[Adriftpanda]

Now you can go support your local B&M.

[dwoodward]

Now you can go support your local B&M.

I am not sure if the B&M's here are really worth "supporting"... :2 Not every city has a classy B&M. Our best one is like most larger cities worst.

[mosesbotbol]

Are you sure he can legally do that?

You are renting/leasing a property that has a contract, and he can't just change the contract mid-stream to his whims. That would be like you changing your contract and expecting the landlord to accept it.

I would go over your lease carefully and if he is in violation or question, withhold rent (escrow) until a judge can decide. See if you can get a few others to do the same. If the judge says the property manager is legal to do so, then the money is there. If not, he'll be dropping that policy real quick with no rent coming in.

Once it is in the court system, you can go back to smoking and keep postponing the court date and dragging it out until your lease ends or he gives up.

[newlifetaxidermy]

I'd smoke anyway and wait to see if this guy does anything. Worst case, he will try to evict you...then you have a court case. He cannot have you arrested for smoking on the property. If he says anything to you about it, tell him to go pound sand.

[Subvet642]

Are you sure he can legally do that?

You are renting/leasing a property that has a contract, and he can't just change the contract mid-stream to his whims. That would be like you changing your contract and expecting the landlord to accept it.

I would go over your lease carefully and if he is in violation or question, withhold rent (escrow) until a judge can decide. See if you can get a few others to do the same. If the judge says the property manager is legal to do so, then the money is there. If not, he'll be dropping that policy real quick with no rent coming in.

Once it is in the court system, you can go back to smoking and keep postponing the court date and dragging it out until your lease ends or he gives up.

:tpd: Moses is right, that's the way to go! :mh

[Coz77]

MY Father-in-law lives in a condo and they instituted a 100 dollar fine for anyone littering the grounds with butts...the offenders stopped its very rare you find cig butts laying anywhere on the property now.

Perhaps you can suggest to your landlord an alternative?

[Da Klugs]

So I just want to vent a bit, because due a littering problem my apartment building is now "No Smoking" anywhere on the property. It appears that the property manager was "very disappointed" with all of the cigarette butts that he found all over the property and instead of saying that the littering is unacceptable he has gone and banned smoking of any kind anywhere on the property.

I am pretty bummed because I really liked smoking the porch and the apartment is practically perfect in every way. Now it looks like I'll be frequenting my B&Ms more. Any body have an experience like this? What did you do about it?

The wife says, "well we should just buy a place." I agree, but probably in a couple years :r

Move. They changed the terms and conditions and you should call them on it and ask to be released from your lease. We chose to live here based upon the smoking policy. You changed it so we are going to move.

[AD720]

Agreed with the above. Looks like he just gave you a free way out of your lease should you want to leave. A lease is a contract and unless there is some kind of a clause that states the property manager or owner can change things you should be good to go.*

*I'm not a lawyer but I sat next to one on the subway yesterday.

[Volt]

I actually did that at one point in my life. Neighbors were too noisy and the manager was to chicken to enforce the rules.. After 5 - 6 calls to the sheriff I put a total of 3 months rent into an escrow account that took both sigs to withdraw but only they could receive the funds.

After 3 months the managing company came by looking for the rent. I explained the issues. About 3 days later we had a new complex manager and at month 4 I released the funds to the company. It is illegal not to pay your rent, but nothing says they have to have assess to it either. :)

I probrablly knew that contract better than they did by the time I got done. Amazing what they are responsible for and can be held to for breaking the contract.

Are you sure he can legally do that?

You are renting/leasing a property that has a contract, and he can't just change the contract mid-stream to his whims. That would be like you changing your contract and expecting the landlord to accept it.

I would go over your lease carefully and if he is in violation or question, withhold rent (escrow) until a judge can decide. See if you can get a few others to do the same. If the judge says the property manager is legal to do so, then the money is there. If not, he'll be dropping that policy real quick with no rent coming in.

Once it is in the court system, you can go back to smoking and keep postponing the court date and dragging it out until your lease ends or he gives up.

[chippewastud79]

If there is no mention of 'No Smoking' in the lease you signed and agreed to, I am fairly confident that you would not have to abide by the new 'rule' unless you agreed to it in some form of writing. This would be particularly true for your patio. :2

[whodeeni]

If there is no mention of 'No Smoking' in the lease you signed and agreed to, I am fairly confident that you would not have to abide by the new 'rule' unless you agreed to it in some form of writing. This would be particularly true for your patio. :2

I'm with the others guys here Jimmy... Go online to ABCBooks.com order an old 4th or 5th edition of blacks law dictionary for 5.00 then go over your lease (dictionary in hand) with a fined tooth comb! You'll probably be amazed at what you find out.... (Or you can fax your lease to me, and i'll go over it with my partner (former atty) for you for free! And let you know what we find out!)

Last year he found something in my Sister's lease that made her apt complex back down. (I can't remember the situation but he's a very smart guy...)

PM me if you're interested in that bro...

[JJG]

I'd smoke anyway and wait to see if this guy does anything. He cannot have you arrested for smoking on the property. If he says anything to you about it, tell him to go pound sand.

:tpd:

This seems like the least severe option. I would just continue to smoke, and most likely nothing will happen. Especially if you have a private or semi-private patio area.

Does the manager even live on the property? If not, he will have no way of knowing you smoke ocasionally unless one of your neighbors complains, and even if they do, as others have mentioned, there is really nothing legally he can do to you.

I vote for just ignoring the no-smoking rule, clean up after yourself and don't give it a second thought.

[sikk50]

My old apartment used to be no smoking, but I would always smoke out on the balcony. I got questioned once, the lady was like "someone said they smelled smoke coming from your balcony, would you know anything about this?" "Nope, but you know what, they people in the apartment below us have a charcoal grill, maybe ask them."

[krevo]

Move. They changed the terms and conditions and you should call them on it and ask to be released from your lease. We chose to live here based upon the smoking policy. You changed it so we are going to move.

This.

I would also get some of my friends in the complex to do the same.

A last resort would be to call the news and see if you can make a story out of it. This happens a lot in Austin when unreasonable people make dumb decisions.

[SNKBYT]

that sux...fight it if you can or at least move. GOOD LUCK
I joined a VFW after returning from deployment, before I signed my membership papers I asked "do you allow cigar smoking" seeing that you allow cigarettes & pipe to which they said "yes we do".....3 months later they banned cigars only.....I fought it at the monthly meeting but was shot down fast...haven't been back since, I heard they now outlawed pipes as well....as a Combat Vet I find it interesting that a Ladies Auxiliary (wife of a CV) can call the shots and the older Combat Vets let them run the VFW. :2

[OLS]

That sucks bro!

The lack of regard of many cigarette smokers have for proper butt disposal is one of the things I
started to notice after I took up cigar smoking.
In reality, it's more of an a$$hole problem than a cig smoker problem, even though pound for pound, the cig
smoker is much less sensitive to the concerns of others. But I'll put to you an example. One of the orignators
of this forum spends millions of dollars every year having a lot of us up to his summer place for a little herf he
calls the Shack. Well we are all grooving on the awesome sunset and there goes a big fat cigar floating by
our deck chairs. Someone cared so little about our host's feelings and had so little respect for his property
that they just tossed a big fat cigar but into Sandusky Bay. OR they did not have enough physics training
to understand that it was not going to sink, thereby allowing them to be insensitive prick$ and not get caught.

It's all about how much sense you have and repsect for others you have. And as to your particular problem,
I would smoke and let em come and remind me there was a rule. Then maybe I'd stop. But for God's sake,
don't forget yourself and toss that butt.

[mosesbotbol]

It's all about how much sense you have and repsect for others you have.

My friends are polite with throwing away their butts and I still find them in my yard!

Then again, I find cigar butts in my yard and I know I throw them away.

[d'am]

From http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=00001-01000&file=818-827:

827. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), in all leases of
lands or tenements, or of any interest therein, from week to week,
month to month, or other period less than a month, the landlord may,
upon giving notice in writing to the tenant, in the manner prescribed
by Section 1162 of the Code of Civil Procedure, change the terms of
the lease to take effect[...]; provided,however, that it shall be
competent for the parties to provide by anagreement in writing that
a notice changing the terms thereof may be given at any time not less
than seven days before the expiration of a term, to be effective upon
the expiration of the term.


From CA law it looks like they need to inform you 7+ days before the lease ends to make a change that takes effect when the lease ends. I'm no lawyer, but I've had some luck printing out and reminding landlords how local tenant law works. Most of them simply don't want the legal hassle.

[Tank]

I would enjoy my cigars anyways!

[Ranger_B]

I would ask for a cigar exemption as their complaint was for cigarettes.

[jimmyk26]

Thank you all for your suggestions, I'm sure that I'll figure something out.

:l

Time for a cigar. -(P

[LasciviousXXX]

Time for a cigar. -(P

On your porch right?
:tu

[Steelergar]

I'd smoke anyway, but I'm crazy like that.

[mosesbotbol]

Thank you all for your suggestions, I'm sure that I'll figure something out.

:l

Time for a cigar. -(P

Until you are singled out or he takes action directly at you, I would continue smoking as you have been.