Mid season award winners

[jonumberone]

This is probably a week too late, but i just had this conversation last night. lets see if it goes anywhere.

If the season ended at the All Star Break, Who would be your picks for the top MLB awards?

Mine

MVP
A.L. Miguel Cabrera DET
N.L. Joey Votto CIN

Cy Young
A.L. David Price TB
N.L. Josh Johnson Fla

Rookie of the Year
A.L. Brennen Boesch DET
N.L. Jamie Garcia STL

[The Poet]

And what about Fireman Of The Year? Me, I always pick Mo, but I'm prejudiced.

[jonumberone]

And what about Fireman Of The Year?

That went to the blind ones on the golf course.;)

Fireman Of The Year
A.L. MO!... Always has been and always will be the best.
N.L. Heath Bell SD

[The Poet]

:tu

[chippewastud79]

Mid season

MVP
AL - Hamilton or Cabrera
NL - Votto or Howard

Cy Young
AL - Lester
NL - Jimenez

Rookie of the Year
AL - Boesch
NL - Heyward

[kelmac07]

Mine

MVP
A.L. Josh Hamilton TEX
N.L. Joey Votto CIN

Cy Young
A.L. David Price TB
N.L. Ubaldo Jiminez COL

Rookie of the Year
A.L. Brennen Boesch DET
N.L. Jason Heyward ATL

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Where are the Chicago White Sox? 25-5 going into break???? I guess they are over looked:rolleyes:

[chippewastud79]

Where are the Chicago White Sox? 25-5 going into break???? I guess they are over looked:rolleyes:

You want Konerko or Rios as the MVP? Neither of them have numbers that compare to Cabrera or Hamilton, particularly across the board. :confused:

They don't have a pitcher in the top 10 of anything except starts.

And don't have a rookie as a regular starter.

So which mid-season award did you want bestowed upon whom? :rolleyes:

[jonumberone]

So which mid-season award did you want bestowed upon whom? :rolleyes:

The only award anyone on the Whitesox could be considered for, Ozzie for Manager of the Year. Even that is debateable now that Ron Washington is coke free.:r

[elderboy02]

Fireman of the year in the NL has to go to Arthur Rhodes. The man just comes in and gets people out.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

You want Konerko or Rios as the MVP? Neither of them have numbers that compare to Cabrera or Hamilton, particularly across the board. :confused:

They don't have a pitcher in the top 10 of anything except starts.

And don't have a rookie as a regular starter.

So which mid-season award did you want bestowed upon whom? :rolleyes:


Rios is not worthy? The numbers are less than Miguel and Josh in some areas, but not by far. I would vote Rios for sure just because he has speed, power and hits for average. He has 23 SB's this year. That and his batting numbers mean a lot combined. Miguel has 2 and Josh has 7. I'm sorry but if you know baseball, getting on base and making things happen is a big deal. And we should almost just take Josh out of this. He has 29 more AB's than Rios. That's a lot of opportunity. Yes I know that Miguel has 79 rbi's and 22 hr's. At mid season, I think Rios is an overall better player.

More things to consider. Strikeouts- Rios 48 Cabrera 57, GDP- Rios 7 Cabrera 12, %chance of hitting into double play- Rios 12% Cabrera 15%,

Something important is having baserunners on when your at the plate. Especially when considering batting numbers. When Rios is AB, 208 BR's have been on base. For Miguel, he has had 68 more baserunners on base for him totaling 276 baserunners. That means more opportunity to hit people in. I wonder what Rios and his numbers would look like with 68 more people on base for him? So I think if we consider these things, numbers are put into perspective more and it makes players more comparable.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Also Rios has committed 7 less erros than Miguel.

[jonumberone]

Also Rios has committed 7 less erros than Miguel.

One is an outfieldser and one is a first baseman. Thats like saying Alex rios should win the Cy Young because he has 5 less wild pitches than David Price.

[jonumberone]

Here's an interesting comparison

Alex Rios
305 AVG
15 HR
51 RBI
356 OBP

Nick Swisher
301 AVG
16 HR
53 RBI
378 OBP

No one thinks Nick Swisher should be MVP

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

One is an outfieldser and one is a first baseman. Thats like saying Alex rios should win the Cy Young because he has 5 less wild pitches than David Price.

Not at all. We are talking Al Mvp here. That makes every position player eligible right? I'm just comparing two position players.

[jonumberone]

Not at all. We are talking Al Mvp here. That makes every position player eligible right? I'm just comparing two position players.

You are right, not a fair comparison. However comparing the fielding stats of an infielder with an outfielder is just as unfair.
Rios is having a great year, as is swisher. Just think in this supposed year of the pitcher Cabrera is having a Monster year. Seasons only half over, and there is still plenty of time for him to get drunk, punch his wife and help his team miss the playoffs again, but at the half way mark Cabrera is the man.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

You are right, not a fair comparison. However comparing the fielding stats of an infielder with an outfielder is just as unfair.
Rios is having a great year, as is swisher. Just think in this supposed year of the pitcher Cabrera is having a Monster year. Seasons only half over, and there is still plenty of time for him to get drunk, punch his wife and help his team miss the playoffs again, but at the half way mark Cabrera is the man.

Cabrera hit his wife? :r:r I hope thats a joke.

[jonumberone]

It's on the internet so it must be true!;)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2251731/miguel_cabrera_drunk_in_domestic_violence.html?cat =14

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

It's on the internet so it must be true!;)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2251731/miguel_cabrera_drunk_in_domestic_violence.html?cat =14


wow. :td

[VirtualSmitty]

Mine

MVP
A.L. Josh Hamilton TEX
N.L. Joey Votto CIN

Cy Young
A.L. David Price TB
N.L. Ubaldo Jiminez COL

Rookie of the Year
A.L. Brennen Boesch DET
N.L. Jason Heyward ATL

Finally we agree on something! :r

I think Ubaldo is going to run away with the NL Cy Young, Price has a good shot but you can't count out Lee or King Felix.

[MedicCook]

Finally we agree on something! :r

I think Ubaldo is going to run away with the NL Cy Young, Price has a good shot but you can't count out Lee or King Felix.

Or CC.

[chippewastud79]

I would vote Rios for sure just because he has speed, power and hits for average. He has 23 SB's this year. That and his batting numbers mean a lot combined.


Based on this Carl Crawford is a more worthy player than Rios. His stats are better across the board than Rios. More stolen bases, higher average, better slugging, more total bases, less errors. :2

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Based on this Carl Crawford is a more worthy player than Rios. His stats are better across the board than Rios. More stolen bases, higher average, better slugging, more total bases, less errors. :2

Rios has better power numbers. HR's, RBI's... Plus Crawford has 20 more Ab's. :D

[chippewastud79]

Rios has better power numbers. HR's, RBI's... Plus Crawford has 20 more Ab's. :D

Crawford has a higher slugging average and they are tied in RBI's, also he has a better OBP. Not to mention, more walks, more runs and more hits. ;)

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Again, Crawford has had a total of 232 baserunners while at bat. Rios has had 208. That makes more opportunity for Crawford and it also allows for him to have a better payoff when he does produce.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Crawford has a higher slugging average and they are tied in RBI's, also he has a better OBP. Not to mention, more walks, more runs and more hits. ;)

They are not tied in RBI's. Rios has 54. Crawford has 51. Oh and Crawfords Slugging average is .513 and Rios is .521. And thats with less AB's for Rios;)

[chippewastud79]

Player TEAM POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
C Crawford TB OF 89 349 71 111 21 7 11 51 179 31 58 33 8 .374 .513 .318
A.. Rios CWS OF 86 328 58 100 20 1 15 51 167 23 48 23 10 .356 .509 .305

MLB.com is a bunch of damn liars then. :td

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

C Crawford TB OF 89 349 71 111 21 7 11 51 179 31 58 33 8 .374 .513 .318
A Rios CWS OF 86 328 58 100 20 1 15 51 167 23 48 23 10 .356 .509 .305

MLB.com is a bunch of damn liars then. :td

Here ya go bro

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5035

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5880

[jonumberone]

Again, Crawford has had a total of 232 baserunners while at bat. Rios has had 208. That makes more opportunity for Crawford and it also allows for him to have a better payoff when he does produce.

You cant use the total number of runners. You have to use AVG with RISP.

Rios 289
Crawford 388
Cabrera 348

If you want to paint with a broader brush & just look at AVG with runners on
Rios 275
Crawford 359
Cabrera 341

[VirtualSmitty]

Or CC.

Most definitely, but it's near impossible for a Yankee to win a Cy Young award.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

You cant use the total number of runners. You have to use AVG with RISP.

Rios 289
Crawford 388
Cabrera 348

If you want to paint with a broader brush & just look at AVG with runners on
Rios 275
Crawford 359
Cabrera 341

If you don't include total number of runners, then we are not using a fair sample size to compare Rios. He has had less people on base, therefore limiting his chance of boosting his Avgerage with people on base. It's not fair to compare his lower average with crawford or cabrera when they have had more people on base. Yeah Rios may have a lower average with people on base, but his sample size is also lower which lowers his average compared to others. Would his average with RISP be higher with more baserunners for him? Maybe? We don't know. His batting average by itself is over .300 which leaves good chance that having more baserunners would have to raise his average with RISP.

[jonumberone]

I wonder what Rios and his numbers would look like with 68 more people on base for him?.

That is exactly why you need to use averages when comparing. At the time of the above statement. Cabrera had driven in about 29% of the total # of baserunners he had on. At the same time Rios drove in about 25%( I rounded up for both players). So based on those averages, had Rios had the same number of baserunners, he would have driven in around 10-12 less runners.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

That is exactly why you need to use averages when comparing. At the time of the above statement. Cabrera had driven in about 29% of the total # of baserunners he had on. At the same time Rios drove in about 25%( I rounded up for both players). So based on those averages, had Rios had the same number of baserunners, he would have driven in around 10-12 less runners.

You can't say that based on averages that if Rios has the same amount of baserunners as the others that he will still bring in less runners. You are not accounting for any improvement, and I say improvement because of his regular batting average. His average with runners on base is considerably lower than his regular batting average. So if we think about it, if Rios has more people on base, give him more baserunners, he would have to improve his average with runners on. He would not continue to hit the same with runners on. Its about giving each player the same sample size, i.e. same amount of baserunners or at least as close as we possibly can, and then average the batting. If not, then we are not comparing players as fairly and accurately.

[icehog3]

Wonder if those actuaily voting put this much thought into it. :)

[jonumberone]

Wonder if those actuaily voting put this much thought into it. :)

If this were a Hart Trophy conversation would you feel the same way?;)

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Wonder if those actuaily voting put this much thought into it. :)

No they don't Tom.

Its hard to say what actually takes place in the minds of voters:r