Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed

[Starscream]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/06/11/barry.bonds.steroids/index.html?section=cnn_latest


Washington (CNN) -- Baseball all-time home run champion Barry Bonds won a big legal victory Friday when a federal appeals court ruled that evidence the government says would prove he lied about using steroids is inadmissible in court.

The San Francisco-based 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, in a divided opinion, said the government cannot use urine samples and other evidence in its perjury case against the former San Francisco Giants star.

Bonds was indicted in federal court in December 2008 on 10 counts of making false statements to a grand jury -- specifically, denying that he knowingly took steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.

His criminal trial has been delayed while the legal issues are being worked out. It was unclear whether the Justice Department will now appeal to the Supreme Court in an effort to allow the evidence to be used in court.

The Appeals Court ruling upholds a February 2009 ruling from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston that there was no proof that positive steroid tests from 2000 and 2001 were Bonds' and that out-of-court statements from his former trainer, Greg Anderson, are hearsay.

The appeals court majority said the repeated refusal of Anderson to testify against Bonds means evidence allegedly gathered by him is considered "inadmissible, since he would be unable to vouch for its authenticity."

Robert Talbot, a professor at the University of San Francisco School of Law said the ruling essentially torpedoes the prosecution's case, which was heavily dependent on evidence and information from Bonds' former trainer.

"There was a link missing here, that the only way to get down to the nitty-gritty that this was from Barry Bonds was using hearsay testimony," Talbot said.

Anderson, he said, "had possession of the evidence and he had that knowledge, and you can't use that knowledge unless he actually testifies under oath."

"To try and prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, particularly in San Francisco where there are going to be many, many people chosen for a jury who would be behind Barry Bonds -- it should be the death knell," Talbot said.

"Practically speaking they should say, 'We gave it our best shot, and it's just not there,'" he said.



Yes, he probably was on steroids (110%) and isn't the greatest personality in baseball, but I'm glad to see this is finally over with. He should have never been put in that situation.

[shilala]

I agree completely, Andy. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see the whole thing be done with. :tu

[kelmac07]

Steriods or not...greatest left fielder to play the game. :2

[The Poet]

Not to get too "Yogi" on you, but I ain't sure it's over 'til it's over here.

[icehog3]

I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago.

[Starscream]

I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago.

As a player, he retired in this decade as a coach. Maybe it was the late 90s.

[chippewastud79]

Steriods or not...greatest left fielder to play the game. :2

Ted Williams? Stan Musial? Rickey Henderson? Shoeless Joe? Willie Stargell? Carl Yastrzemski? :confused:

At best he is in the top 5, but #1 all-time is certainly a stretch. :2

[kelmac07]

Ted Williams? Stan Musial? Rickey Henderson? Shoeless Joe? Willie Stargell? Carl Yastrzemski? :confused:

At best he is in the top 5, but #1 all-time is certainly a stretch. :2

Overall....he is at least #3 (with only Musial and Williams ahead of him)...hit for average, power, stolen bases, RBIs...

Henderson...great base stealer...not a lot of power, low average
Stargell...didn't he play 1B?
Yaz...too many years as a catcher
Williams...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs
Shoeless Joe...if only he had played a few more years
Musial...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs

[Resipsa]

I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago.

As a player, he retired in this decade as a coach. Maybe it was the late 90s.

Andy, could be wrong but I think Tom is messing wit u. "Bobby" not Barry Bonds, :banger

[Buena Fortuna]

Overall....he is at least #3 (with only Musial and Williams ahead of him)...hit for average, power, stolen bases, RBIs...

Henderson...great base stealer...not a lot of power, low average
Stargell...didn't he play 1B?
Yaz...too many years as a catcher
Williams...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs
Shoeless Joe...if only he had played a few more years
Musial...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs

Ever heard of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron??? Keep moving Bonds down the list...as a matter of fact, take him off the list

[chippewastud79]

Ever heard of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron??? Keep moving Bonds down the list...as a matter of fact, take him off the list

LF not OF. On the list of top OF of all time I am not sure Bonds cracks the top 10. :tu

[pnoon]

Yaz...too many years as a catcher


:confused: Yaz never played a single game as a catcher.

Could you be thinking of Carlton Fisk?

[forgop]

LF not OF. On the list of top OF of all time I am not sure Bonds cracks the top 10. :tu

The only list Barry deserves to be on is the sh!t list for taking steroids. To me, all of his stats should be wiped out by MLB.

[chippewastud79]

:confused:

:tpd:Yaz was a LF until late in his career. 18 All-Star games, 7 Gold Gloves, 1967 MVP (when he had the Triple Crown) :tu

[chippewastud79]

The only list Barry deserves to be on is the sh!t list for taking steroids. To me, all of his stats should be wiped out by MLB.

Unfortunately the 'steroid era' will likely never be stricken from the record because MLB and Selig had knowledge of it the entire time. It was "Part of the game" and it has to be assumed that every player is guilty until proven innocent, including the pitchers who threw the pitches that were hit.

Sadly, the last barrier, for some purists who would like to see records like his omitted, is the vote for the Hall of Fame. If recent history has shown a glimmer of hope for the fans of the unadulterated game, it is that McGwire hasn't even come close (I'm not sure he gets in without the PED's anyway). :2

[Ahbroody]

Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game.

As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

[kelmac07]

:confused: Yaz never played a single game as a catcher.

Could you be thinking of Carlton Fisk?

Right you are Peter!! WTF was I thinking? :r :r

[kelmac07]

Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game.

As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

Mike...as far as we know they competed "fairly"...they didn't start testing in LMB for illegal drugs until the early 90s. Babe Ruth stayed drunk, as did Mantle and look at their numbers. Hmmm??? Defintely not saying I approve of Bonds cheating/juicing (althought he has never failed a drug test...evidence is in his pics from when he came up with Pittsburgh and was a scrawny kid and when he finished his hat size was 10 1/2...he has not been proven of cheating). He still had to swing the bat and play the game. I truly believe that Bonds receives such negative press from the way he was a prick towards the media. McGwire has admitted cheating and you don't hear a thing about it now. A-Rod still catches flack, but not as much. Andy Petite, you hear nothing!!! Media driven madness my brother!!!

[AD720]

"*"

[Ahbroody]

Mike...as far as we know they competed "fairly"...they didn't start testing in LMB for illegal drugs until the early 90s. Babe Ruth stayed drunk, as did Mantle and look at their numbers. Hmmm??? Defintely not saying I approve of Bonds cheating/juicing (althought he has never failed a drug test...evidence is in his pics from when he came up with Pittsburgh and was a scrawny kid and when he finished his hat size was 10 1/2...he has not been proven of cheating). He still had to swing the bat and play the game. I truly believe that Bonds receives such negative press from the way he was a prick towards the media. McGwire has admitted cheating and you don't hear a thing about it now. A-Rod still catches flack, but not as much. Andy Petite, you hear nothing!!! Media driven madness my brother!!!

First off I do find humor that a met fan called into question 3 yankees. 2 of the greatest players and yankees to ever play. I am not. Yankee fan, I am a giant fan.

Second as a cop and someone who played HS baseball at a very competitive school I will say alcohol would hinder reaction time which is essential. Steroids on the other hand could and would improve fast twitch muscles and heal muscle injuries which powerhitters are prone to. allowing a hitter with great skill but low strength to gain the strength needed and extend a carrer that would have ended earlier.

Finally, given the extremely limited accessibility of performance enhancing roids till the late 60s outside Eastern Europe, the fact that most every player on the list had traditional declining stats after peaking a few years in, and none of their head and bone structure changed which is typical of growth hormone users *which would not be detected then*, I will say Bonds is a fraud. While he clearly had talent roids gave him the ability to hit more homeruns and extend his career.

Not of this really matters as he got away with it.

[Buena Fortuna]

LF not OF. On the list of top OF of all time I am not sure Bonds cracks the top 10. :tu

Keep moving him down...down...down... to the bottom of the toilet

[blugill]

Bonds will never make the HoF, case or no case he'll be with Pete Rose on the outside looking in.

[Starscream]

Andy, could be wrong but I think Tom is messing wit u. "Bobby" not Barry Bonds, :banger

I know, Vic. Bobby was a coach for a long time too.:tu

[Starscream]

Steriods or not...greatest left fielder to play the game. :2

Defensively, there is no way. He fields about as well as Adam Dunn or Soriano.:r


As far as best defensive OF go, I'd put Griffey in the top five (a man who has never yet been linked to steroids).

[Starscream]

Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

I could be wrong here, but I thought that it has been shown that those who take steroids are more prone to injury than those who don't.

I agree with the rest of your post about his stats would have probably gone into a decline.

[Resipsa]

I know, Vic. Bobby was a coach for a long time too.:tu

oops. my bad:xxx

[Starscream]

oops. my bad:xxx

:xxx:xxx:xxx:)

[Ahbroody]

I could be wrong here, but I thought that it has been shown that those who take steroids are more prone to injury than those who don't.

I agree with the rest of your post about his stats would have probably gone into a decline.

In my last post I stated Bonds likely used HGH due to his increase in bone structure which is a documented side effect of its use. Steroids can cause Injury to tendons and ligaments because the muscles increase to a size which your natural tendons and ligaments have issues supporting. Why some would say you see the increase in tendon injuries in the pros. What is often done and I believe was done with Bonds is that he took a combination of both Steroids to increase muscle mass and aid in muscle repair, then HGH which would help prevent tendon and ligament damage and repair damage that occurred..

This would also work with the concept of the clear(HGH undetecable) and the Cream (steroid mix).

I would like to say I am not a roid user, but when I used to lift a lot before I had a few buddies who used gear. They loved to talk about this stuff when we were lifting.

[icehog3]

I could be wrong here, but I thought that it has been shown that those who take steroids are more prone to injury than those who don't.



Like Mike stated above, 'roids can actually help speed healing of some injuries. The chemistry Mike defined actually makes the case for Bonds to be less hampered by injuries than he would have been without the "enhancers".

[Starscream]

In my last post I stated Bonds likely used HGH due to his increase in bone structure which is a documented side effect of its use. Steroids can cause Injury to tendons and ligaments because the muscles increase to a size which your natural tendons and ligaments have issues supporting. Why some would say you see the increase in tendon injuries in the pros. What is often done and I believe was done with Bonds is that he took a combination of both Steroids to increase muscle mass and aid in muscle repair, then HGH which would help prevent tendon and ligament damage and repair damage that occurred..

This would also work with the concept of the clear(HGH undetecable) and the Cream (steroid mix).

I would like to say I am not a roid user, but when I used to lift a lot before I had a few buddies who used gear. They loved to talk about this stuff when we were lifting.

:tu Sounds feasible to me.

[Starscream]

Like Mike stated above, 'roids can actually help speed healing of some injuries. The chemistry Mike defined actually makes the case for Bonds to be less hampered by injuries than he would have been without the "enhancers".

I know they can heal, but I also heard they hurt muscles and tendons. His explanation above makes sense to me, though.:tu


Volquez was busted earlier this year and put on a 50 game suspension while he was rehabbing. He was using to heal up quicker (we assume anyways, not his official story).

[The Poet]

First off I do find humor that a met fan called into question 3 yankees. 2 of the greatest players and yankees to ever play. I am not. Yankee fan, I am a giant fan.

I am a Yankee fan, and I have no problem with Mac bashing any Yankee, past or present, he chooses. Hell, I bash Mets all the time, and he has no problem with that. :r

But as for the whole steroid issue, I would like to point out that both Andy and A-Rod at least stood up like men, admitted their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness. When you compare this to that @$$hole Bonds, who demands an apology instead, you may better understand why they catch a lot less flak than he does.

[kelmac07]

I am a Yankee fan, and I have no problem with Mac bashing any Yankee, past or present, he chooses. Hell, I bash Mets all the time, and he has no problem with that. :r

But as for the whole steroid issue, I would like to point out that both Andy and A-Rod at least stood up like men, admitted their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness. When you compare this to that @$$hole Bonds, who demands an apology instead, you may better understand why they catch a lot less flak than he does.

I do agree that Pettitte handled it like a man...the jury is still out on A-Rod. But they both had positive tests come back, where as Bonds has not yet been tested positive. And we all know that Bonds was no doll when it came to the media.

[Starscream]

But as for the whole steroid issue, I would like to point out that both Andy and A-Rod at least stood up like men, admitted their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness.

:confused:
A-Rod stood up like a man? He only came out b/c he got busted on it. Yes, he did it better than McGwire did, but still that's not being a man. Come clean before you get caught. I'm not a Yankee fan, and no disrespect to the team, but A-Rod is a complete douchebag too. There are plenty of good Yankee players, such as Jeter, Posada, Texiera, and Cano, so don't think I'm just bashing A-Rod b/c he's a Yank. He was a douchebag down in Texas too.

[The Poet]

:confused:
A-Rod stood up like a man? He only came out b/c he got busted on it. Yes, he did it better than McGwire did, but still that's not being a man. Come clean before you get caught. I'm not a Yankee fan, and no disrespect to the team, but A-Rod is a complete douchebag too. There are plenty of good Yankee players, such as Jeter, Posada, Texiera, and Cano, so don't think I'm just bashing A-Rod b/c he's a Yank. He was a douchebag down in Texas too.

I won't argue with you that A-Rod has often been a douchebag in the past, and can be one in the present, and will likely be one in the future. But I think it is unjust for you to condemn him for being one because he did not volunteer the information that he used steroids instead of waiting until "he got busted on it". I could be wrong . . . it has happened before . . . but I can't recall one single player (active, anyway) who came out of that particular closet on his own accord. And I'm NOT just talking baseball here either.

[Starscream]

I won't argue with you that A-Rod has often been a douchebag in the past, and can be one in the present, and will likely be one in the future. But I think it is unjust for you to condemn him for being one because he did not volunteer the information that he used steroids instead of waiting until "he got busted on it". I could be wrong . . . it has happened before . . . but I can't recall one single player (active, anyway) who came out of that particular closet on his own accord. And I'm NOT just talking baseball here either.

Wasn't active, but Canseco did it.:r


You're right, I may be biased against him, but I still think he's a douche.

[The Poet]

Wasn't active, but Canseco did it.:r


You're right, I may be biased against him, but I still think he's a douche.

As for Canseco, that was sort of like Clay Aiken coming out. :r


And as for A-Rod, I've thought so too, starting 'way back when he bashed his best buddy Jeter in SI when he was still in Seattle.

[Ahbroody]

I am a Yankee fan, and I have no problem with Mac bashing any Yankee, past or present, he chooses. Hell, I bash Mets all the time, and he has no problem with that. :r
.
I said I found humor in it. I did not say I had an problem with it. I am not a fan of the yankees. So with that said I am confused as to why you quoted me other than to use my comment as a springboard for your statement. I am not a fan of either NY team and was making a observation that in an discussion about Bonds a Met fan tied in some baseball legends who were yankees and called their carrer into question. It was funny it was players from the yankees and not any other team. I think if he had issue with my comment he could or should have made it known. Again to me its FUNNY! I have no issue with it. It's just funny.

[Starscream]

I said I found humor in it. I did not say I had an problem with it. I am not a fan of the yankees. So with that said I am confused as to why you quoted me other than to use my comment as a springboard for your statement. I am not a fan of either NY team and was making a observation that in an discussion about Bonds a Met fan tied in some baseball legends who were yankees and called their carrer into question. It was funny it was players from the yankees and not any other team. I think if he had issue with my comment he could or should have made it known. Again to me its FUNNY! I have no issue with it. It's just funny.

It's not funny one bit! That is totally unacceptable! WTF were you thinking???





















































J/K.:D;s I thought it was a bit humorous myself.:tu

[kelmac07]

Being a Mets fan...I tip my hat to Derek Jeter and Jorge Posado (and that is VERY tough)...they are class acts, first class all the way. Now A-Douche...no chance!!! :td :td

[Starscream]

Being a Mets fan...I tip my hat to Derek Jeter and Jorge Posado (and that is VERY tough)...they are class acts, first class all the way. Now A-Douche...no chance!!! :td :td

I kinda get the same feeling from Texiera a bit, but I'll consider him a good guy until he does something stupid like his teammate.

[The Poet]

Being a Mets fan...I tip my hat to Derek Jeter and Jorge Posado

And as a Yankee fan, I tip my hat to Lady Gaga. :D

[VirtualSmitty]

I kinda get the same feeling from Texiera a bit, but I'll consider him a good guy until he does something stupid like his teammate.

Have I missed something? What has Texiera done besides not hit?

[Starscream]

Have I missed something? What has Texiera done besides not hit?

He hasn't done anything, he just has that "swagger" to him. Like I said, he's a class act so far, I just sense that he may become arrogant as his career advances.