View Full Version : Girlfriends Dad..
colinb913
06-21-2010, 08:01 PM
Apparently my girl friends dad thinks I disrespected him, sometime last night. I really dont know when or how, my girlfriend asked him and i asked him. He refuses to talk about it, let alone tell me how. Me and him were on pretty good standards before last night. Any ideas how to fix this? I have apologized many times over, and really am at a loss.
Posted via Mobile Device
Not sure, but i would try to give him a little time to cool off and then maybe approach him again.
icehog3
06-21-2010, 08:11 PM
No real way to fix it unless he lets her or you know what you did wrong.
I dated a girl when I was between high school and college whos Dad was allegedly a big wig in the Chicago mafia. He felt disrepected because I was Irish. :r
sikk50
06-21-2010, 08:21 PM
Not to make light of the situation, but something that happened to me once in Junior College....maybe he heard you bumping uglies with his daughter?
icehog3
06-21-2010, 08:23 PM
Not to make light of the situation, but something that happened to me once in Junior College....maybe he heard you bumping uglies with his daughter?
Once?? Bummer, Andrew. ;)
colinb913
06-21-2010, 08:23 PM
Nah, He didnt hear.
Icehog.. I am irish. x;)
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pnoon
06-21-2010, 08:24 PM
Nah, He didnt hear.
Posted via Mobile Device
Don't be so sure of yourself.
You'd be surprised at how word travels and/or rumors start.
JaKaacH
06-21-2010, 08:27 PM
Let him cool down for a few days, then maybe you can find out what you did.
No real way to fix it unless he lets her or you know what you did wrong.
I dated a girl when I was between high school and college whos Dad was allegedly a big wig in the Chicago mafia. He felt disrepected because I was Irish. :r
Reminds me of this Tom...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boO4RowROiw
Apparently my girl friends dad thinks I disrespected him, sometime last night. I really dont know when or how, my girlfriend asked him and i asked him. He refuses to talk about it, let alone tell me how. Me and him were on pretty good standards before last night. Any ideas how to fix this? I have apologized many times over, and really am at a loss.
Posted via Mobile Device
If he is such a juvenile that he is giving the silent treatment and will not discuss what you did to offend him....:rolleyes:
I'd continue to be pleasant to him and go on about your lives.... When he decides to be an adult, discuss it and move forward....
colinb913
06-21-2010, 08:42 PM
no as in. we havent bumped yet. so he hasnt heard.
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icehog3
06-21-2010, 08:48 PM
Reminds me of this Tom...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boO4RowROiw
:r :r
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/irisha.gif
Brutus2600
06-21-2010, 08:49 PM
Nah, He didnt hear.
Icehog.. I am irish. x;)
Posted via Mobile Device
If this is a confirmation that you two are on "familiar" terms, there are plenty of things he could've found out that would've pissed him off. Heard it, found some used...items, if she told somebody maybe word got back to him.
(edit: disregard this...looks like you already addressed while I was typing my post)
However this sounds like something that happened in the evening when you were over and things got weird. If you've gone over the events of the night and can't figure it out, and he won't talk about it, take the advice of ggainey and let him cool off. If I've done something that I'm completely clueless about, my girlfriend will get pissed and needs a little time to cool off before she can talk about it otherwise she knows it'll blow up into a huge argument. If he's removing himself from the situation in this way and not talking to you about it, maybe he's just trying not to let the situation get out of hand before he talks to you about it.
I'm with E.J. to keep being pleasent to him, be nice and as respectful as you can be. If he eventually talks to you about it, great. If not, well you're the adult in the situation.
Good luck with the situation man :tu
AD720
06-21-2010, 08:50 PM
Not sure, but i would try to give him a little time to cool off and then maybe approach him again.
:tpd:
Be the bigger man. Kill him with kindness until he is ready to talk it out. Remember she is his little girl and you just are a punk kid trying to get into a) her pants and b) his liquor cabinet. ;)
sikk50
06-21-2010, 08:52 PM
:r :r
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/irisha.gif
Funny I have almost the same picture as the background on my phone.
And sounds like we can check one possibility off the list.
neoflex
06-21-2010, 08:52 PM
Not sure how involved you are but from your last post it doesn't sound like you have gotten too far and may not be that far involved yet. May be time to cut her loose. Only reason why I say this is because if the father or mother for that matter don't like you, it will be a struggle to make the relationship work. Most parents of girls I dated in the past loved me. Except this one girls mother who hated me basically because the mother was an out of her mind control freak who literally had no friends and her daughter basically was the only person she would get to hang out with. Needless to say once her daughter started spending most of her time with me rather than her I became public enemy number 1. The father and I got along great and even he told me his wife was a wicked b*tch. Well, the fact that the mother hated me made the relationship impossible and we ended up parting ways which in the end was a good thing since I eventually found out the hard way that the fruit didn't fall far from the tree and the daughter ended up turning into a total psycho stalker. So depending on how involved you are with this girl and if you can't rectify the problem with her dad it may be easier to cut her loose sooner rather than later. Also remember, when you marry a girl you marry her family too so if things suck now it will only get worse with marriage.
icehog3
06-21-2010, 08:52 PM
:tpd:
Be the bigger man. Kill him with kindness until he is ready to talk it out. Remember she is his little girl and you just are a punk kid trying to get into a) her pants and b) his liquor cabinet. ;)
They often go hand in hand. ;)
colinb913
06-21-2010, 08:57 PM
No man, I mean me and her have been friends for a while, but just started dating. Shes kinda wanting to take it slow so thats why we havent uhm.. banged. Haha.
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neoflex
06-21-2010, 09:08 PM
Could always try offering him a peace pipe err I mean cigar.:D
lostark374
06-22-2010, 01:21 AM
:tpd:
Be the big man. Kill him or Beat him until he is ready to talk. Remember she is your little girl and your just trying to get into her pants . ;)
this is meant to be funny. please do not harm him and im sure your intentions are honest.
Wolfgang
06-22-2010, 02:23 AM
Im more or less in the same situation with my Girlfriends mom. From what I understand she is just not ready to let "her little girl go yet" and is finding every excuse to give me the cold shoulder. You can dig at it all you want but to be brutally honest it only matters what your girlfriend thinks.
Blueface
06-22-2010, 06:01 AM
I'd continue to be pleasant to him and go on about your lives.... When he decides to be an adult, discuss it and move forward....
:tpd:
shilala
06-22-2010, 06:08 AM
Maybe he thought you dishonored him because you started dating his daughter without asking first?
I don't know him, but he may be old school. He may have thought you knew him well enough (knowing his daughter for some time and being friends) that you'd know enough to ask to take her out.
Or maybe you were pawing at his daughter in front of him? Something like that?
The only thing that I can add is that young men today a lot of times don't understand what a daughter means to a father. I know I didn't when I was a kid, but I should have been taught, most were. Something that a young man wouldn't at all consider disrespectful could easily be felt that way by the father.
I make sure I have a "talk" with young men before they see my daughter, that way we don't get where you guys got. The "talk" is about mutual respect, and it's always well received, not that it matters. Pukes are a dime a dozen, my daughter is one in a million. I like scaring them, too. It's fun. :)
I'm not at all suggesting any of this towards you, Colin. Just some recent stuff I've noticed that might be helpful. I don't mean any disrespect at all. :tu
I dated a girl when I was between high school and college whos Dad was allegedly a big wig in the Chicago mafia. He felt disrepected because I was Irish. :rLuckily huge biceps still strike fear in the mob.
Seriously, this is the kind of question you get when you let young guys onto the forum. :)
They hold forth with questions about how to handle their girlfriends family. hehe Sorry.
Even MORE seriously, I also agree that you should evaluate the sitcho based on the fact
that you can't change people and that cutting loose now makes it alot easier to do. EVERY
girl looks too good to let go when you are in the moment, but sometimes wacko just ain't
worth it. And don't make it worse by trying to get into those levis KNOWING you are gonna
bail. OR find a way to be helpful to her old man, roofing, tough yard work, etc. Give yourself
an opportunity to spend enough time with him that he breaches the subject on his own during
some tough physical labor. Old school men like to talk while they work so they never have to
actually look at you while they bit$h..
kaisersozei
06-22-2010, 07:12 AM
As a semi-old man myself, with a soon-to-be 16 year old daughter (and 21 & soon-to-be 17 year old sons) I would agree with this:
The only thing that I can add is that young men today a lot of times don't understand what a daughter means to a father. I know I didn't when I was a kid, but I should have been taught, most were. Something that a young man wouldn't at all consider disrespectful could easily be felt that way by the father.
I make sure I have a "talk" with young men before they see my daughter, that way we don't get where you guys got. The "talk" is about mutual respect, and it's always well received, not that it matters. Pukes are a dime a dozen, my daughter is one in a million. I like scaring them, too. It's fun. :)
and this:
OR find a way to be helpful to her old man, roofing, tough yard work, etc. Give yourself
an opportunity to spend enough time with him that he breaches the subject on his own during
some tough physical labor. Old school men like to talk while they work so they never have to
actually look at you while they bit$h..
And yes, big biceps helps when you're a girlfriend's dad. ;)
floydpink
06-22-2010, 07:32 AM
Just watched "she's Out Of My League" last night and so should you Colin.
Perfect way to deal with your problem is played out....
lbowles2
06-22-2010, 08:17 AM
And yes, big biceps helps when you're a girlfriend's dad. ;)
My daughter is 3... I've started lifting weights to be prepared :su
floydpink
06-22-2010, 08:48 AM
My daughter is 3... I've started lifting weights to be prepared :su
Mine is 5 and I have a shotgun and a shovel waiting..
Mindflux
06-22-2010, 09:07 AM
Mine is 5 and I have a shotgun and a shovel waiting..
Mine is 11 months old and I've got plans for a large gun case and a "don't answer the door without gun in hand" policy that I'll use starting in about 12 years.
markem
06-22-2010, 09:21 AM
All you Dads need to take a page from Bill Engvall's playbook
Bill Engvall: My litle girl is 16. She's at that age where she's in her room listening to her stereo, online with her friends, and boys are starting to call. Oh, my God. We had a kid call the house at 2 in the morning. I lost it. First off, I'm sound asleep in la-la land with Shania Twain in the mountains somewhere. I hear a phone ring and I'm like, "Who's got a phone in the mountains?" So when I realized it's my phone, I'm already ticked off. I went, "Hello!" And this little voice goes, "Is Emily there?" And I go, "Dude, if you have a brain in your skull you will hang up this phone up right now!" And my wife goes, "Bill, you gotta be nice." I said, "No, ma'am, nice stops at midnight." She said, "What will you do when these little boys come over?" I said, "I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm gonna pull the young man in tight next to me so only he and I can hear the conversation. I'm gonna whisper in his ear. I'm gonna say, "Boy, look at me. You see that little girl there? That's my only little girl. She's my life. So if you have any thought about hugging or kissing, you remember these words: I got no problem going back to prison."
colinb913
06-22-2010, 09:40 AM
Haha, I saw him when he performed and he used that joke!!
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Lear31MX
06-22-2010, 09:46 AM
Yeah I just broke up with my girlfreind, it wasn't because of her father though, it was becasue she was a miget and i'm of normal hight, it's really to bad because I was
NUTS OVER HER
:D
colinb913
06-22-2010, 09:55 AM
Hahahahahaha!!
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mosesbotbol
06-22-2010, 10:47 AM
If he is such a juvenile that he is giving the silent treatment and will not discuss what you did to offend him....:rolleyes:
I'd continue to be pleasant to him and go on about your lives.... When he decides to be an adult, discuss it and move forward....
:tpd:
He sounds like a little b i t c h if that is the way he goes about things. It is best to be matter-of-fact on your side and show him that his girl is not going out with a sally who is affraid to speak his mind.
I would not sweat it and just listen to your girl if something else has to be done or said.
icantbejon
06-22-2010, 10:47 AM
find a way to be helpful to her old man, roofing, tough yard work, etc. Give yourself an opportunity to spend enough time with him that he breaches the subject on his own during some tough physical labor. Old school men like to talk while they work so they never have to actually look at you while they bit$h..
:tpd:
I've used this method in the past. I dated a German girl (while in Germany) whose father was a WWII aged fella. He didn't care all that much for Americans, and American GI's in particular. He didn't speak a word to me the first few times I came to his place. However, he was destroying a concrete back patio to get to a leak in his basement and I offered help with the very heavy jack hammer. After a day of destroying concrete...I was welcomed into his house and offered his beer.
MiamiE
06-22-2010, 11:12 AM
I never had to deal with a FIL, but a nosey MIL, yes. :r I have a lot of fun with her. I would go about your business and make sure you aren't doing anything you know they would consider disrespectful in front of them. There's a time and place for everything.
14holestogie
06-22-2010, 11:27 AM
Not sure how involved you are but from your last post it doesn't sound like you have gotten too far and may not be that far involved yet. May be time to cut her loose. Only reason why I say this is because if the father or mother for that matter don't like you, it will be a struggle to make the relationship work.
No disrespect to you, John, but this isn't always the case.
I know a guy that looks and acts a lot like me who had the same issues with the future in-laws many years ago. Seems the FIL (Chief of Police) had an issue with this "guy" who may or may not have had some delinquent issues in the not so distant past. Once I was able to prove I was past those days (and I wasn't sure I was at that time), the mending of the fences began. It was not an easy thing to do, but was well worth the effort when years later he'd proudly introduce his son-in-law to others. Nearly 40 years later and a few years removed from the FIL's passing, the relationship continues to thrive.
kenstogie
06-22-2010, 11:37 AM
As a singe Dad, you are the enemy (not really but you get the idea) I remember when I was 16 so I know. I will have a few Long range targets back from the M-16 Range on the wall when any boy comes to take my daughter out.
"Yup, see this one here? Right in the head at 300 yards, peice of cake, betcha I could do 500 yards. What's that 5 football fields? That's a loooong way aways. I don't think you would hear it just a sharp, sharp pain and THEN you'd hear the bang. I could just slip away too, pretty easy actually"
GKitty
06-22-2010, 01:10 PM
I'd just like to chime in and say, y'all are a great bunch of dads. :)
When boys started calling the house for me, my dad made it a point to start answering the phone every time it rang. His favorite test was to ask them, "What does she look like?" If they couldn't get past brunette and glasses, they got to leave a message. The guy who mentioned the dimples got major brownie points.
My only comment to the original subject, is to watch how you talk about this situation with the lady in question. She may get on a rant about how her dad is being immature or juvenile when she gets frustrated with the situation. This is not a invitation for you to join in. Save that for your friends... or your internet forums. Dads are people too, so they're not always going to be perfect. However, that conversation could easily turn into her taking his side over yours because she feels like you've attacked him. Tread carefully.
Carry on, gents!
Brutus2600
06-22-2010, 01:17 PM
My only comment to the original subject, is to watch how you talk about this situation with the lady in question. She may get on a rant about how her dad is being immature or juvenile when she gets frustrated with the situation. This is not a invitation for you to join in. Save that for your friends... or your internet forums. Dads are people too, so they're not always going to be perfect. However, that conversation could easily turn into her taking his side over yours because she feels like you've attacked him. Tread carefully.
Man, now that GKitty says that I've got to totally agree with her. Didn't even think about this. I had a gf awhile back that would always get pissed about stupid stuff her mom did, and I joined in with the disbelief about how moronic those things were. Well, later I learned that despite her ranting about her mother, this was NOT an invitation for me to join in.
If she's ranting about her father, listen, console, but do not join in the complaining. It'll be way better for you in the long run! :D
colinb913
06-22-2010, 01:30 PM
I personally have no problems with her parents, so I dont plan on smack talking anyone. And I def. wont be ranting with her anytime soon.
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pnoon
06-22-2010, 01:44 PM
I personally have no problems with her parents, so I dont plan on smack talking anyone. And I def. wont be ranting with her anytime soon.
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Except for the one that started this thread. ;)
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colinb913
06-22-2010, 01:47 PM
Correct.
Posted via Mobile Device
BigFrank
06-22-2010, 02:58 PM
No real way to fix it unless he lets her or you know what you did wrong.
I dated a girl when I was between high school and college whos Dad was allegedly a big wig in the Chicago mafia. He felt disrepected because I was Irish. :r
damn irish....;)
Adriftpanda
06-22-2010, 03:39 PM
He's probably jealous of your rolex! you could be modest and put that thing away sometimes.
colinb913
06-22-2010, 03:42 PM
panda- is that sarcasm... or...?
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floydpink
06-22-2010, 03:45 PM
Colin threads are always more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
colinb913
06-22-2010, 03:49 PM
True true.
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replicant_argent
06-22-2010, 05:14 PM
panda- is that sarcasm... or...?
Posted via Mobile Device
There might be something to that. And to answer your question, yes I just perused that old thread.
What kind of guy is he? Does he wear jewelry or a watch? Quite frankly, unless I would know a seriously good reason a younger (I assume you are under 20 or so) guy would be wearing a Rolex, I would probably wonder what kind of values that kid has. Even if it was possibly fake. ;) I understand craftsmanship, and value, and perceived value as well as what traits seem to mold that appreciation, in whatever stance it takes.
Yeah, I am sure there are many guys here that had 2-3-4K watches here as young men , and you can turn the flamethrower on me if you want, but quite frankly, that's the way I think, and a few decades of the hair on the back of my neck telling me something has some value to me.
Of course, there might be something else about the cut of your jib he doesn't dig. Get him alone for a few minutes and ask him straight up.
As the father of a 18 year old daughter, I 'might' actually give an answer to a fellow that was dating her. Then again, that info might stay mine, but I can assure you, he probably has a reason, whether it is valid to you or not, and you may want to have some kind of resolution.
colinb913
06-22-2010, 05:39 PM
Well I havent really worn anything any guy my age wouldnt. No I have not worn the Rolex around him. I am pretty sure at least. Its not a daily watch for me
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replicant_argent
06-22-2010, 05:40 PM
Is he a member here?
colinb913
06-22-2010, 06:05 PM
I doubt it. He only smokes cigars once in a blue moon.
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floydpink
06-22-2010, 06:12 PM
Colin,
I reread your original post and am confused.
You said you don't know what you did to offend him, but say you "apologized to him many times". For what???
Without knowing all the details and being an overly cautious father myself, I have a sneaking suspicion you have rubbed him the wrong way and I might even go on a limb and say he might think you are a condescending, self important young buck that he would prefer his daughter not get too serious with.
Just a hunch....
If it were me I'd man up a little bit and perhaps sit down with him once he cools off. In the meantime, I'd stay clear.
colinb913
06-22-2010, 06:18 PM
It was obvious I did something, and she told me he said I disrespected him. Therefore I apologized. What has me confused is I dont know what I did to disrespect him
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Pistol
06-22-2010, 07:46 PM
There might be something to that. And to answer your question, yes I just perused that old thread.
What kind of guy is he? Does he wear jewelry or a watch? Quite frankly, unless I would know a seriously good reason a younger (I assume you are under 20 or so) guy would be wearing a Rolex, I would probably wonder what kind of values that kid has. Even if it was possibly fake. ;) I understand craftsmanship, and value, and perceived value as well as what traits seem to mold that appreciation, in whatever stance it takes.
Yeah, I am sure there are many guys here that had 2-3-4K watches here as young men , and you can turn the flamethrower on me if you want, but quite frankly, that's the way I think, and a few decades of the hair on the back of my neck telling me something has some value to me.
Of course, there might be something else about the cut of your jib he doesn't dig. Get him alone for a few minutes and ask him straight up.
As the father of a 18 year old daughter, I 'might' actually give an answer to a fellow that was dating her. Then again, that info might stay mine, but I can assure you, he probably has a reason, whether it is valid to you or not, and you may want to have some kind of resolution.
I'd be a bit careful on the watch thing. I know several guys that were given nice watches as a high school graduation present, as a kind of "coming of age" thing. I believe that a nice watch that lasts a life time is a much more appropriate gift than a car (which may kids get). I'd be more concerned with a kid that age that wore ratty clothes or had a bad attitude. To me, that says more about a guy's character than a nice time piece. JMHO, of course.
Brutus2600
06-23-2010, 12:14 AM
Yeah, his first post states that he was on good terms with the dad before the night in question, and since he's been friends with the girl for a long time, I'm assuming the dad has known him for awhile and if that's the case opinions have already been formed about whatever Colin's attitude is or what kind of timepiece he wears. These seem to be moot points to me, it's some specific interaction that happened on that night that offended the dad.
kaisersozei
06-23-2010, 07:02 AM
These seem to be moot points to me, it's some specific interaction that happened on that night that offended the dad.
Bump for proper spelling & grammatical usage of moot. :D
Mindflux
06-23-2010, 07:08 AM
It was obvious I did something, and she told me he said I disrespected him. Therefore I apologized. What has me confused is I dont know what I did to disrespect him
Posted via Mobile Device
Just let it go?
Posted from a firefox whilst on a 24" iMac
neoflex
06-23-2010, 07:11 AM
He probably saw you walk in the kitchen and slap both his wife and his daughters asses followed by "Thanks for dinner ladies.":r:D;s
colinb913
06-23-2010, 08:07 AM
That must have been it!! I was just trying to be nice!! ;) ;)
Posted via Mobile Device
Bump for proper spelling & grammatical usage of moot. :D
Dang straight. Man I go out of my skull on online forums, what with all the "refined pallets"
and "Mute Points" and such. :r
Normally I wouldn't add more, or even THAT, but I read another reply and had to say something.
It said more or less to stay out of sight and not let him know or see what you guys do. Bullhockey.
HE KNOWS what you are doing. He is like Santa Claus. YOUR job is to ensure that he knows
all of that and is OK with it. Or resigned to it quietly. And like I said, you have to, from time to
time, show him that you are more interested in listening to him than her, or spending time with him
rather than her. Give you a good example. Say you are talking and all of a sudden, both of them
start blabbering about something at the same time. DO NOT LET YOUR EYES OFF OF HIS THE ENTIRE
TIME. HE is the most important speaker, you can always hear her speak later.
When they both ask you something in rapid succession, answer him first.
You can extrapolate that into all sorts of neat tricks to get back where you
need to be. It sounds sexist. It is not. It is survival. He is lord and master over her, and
what she says is trivially unimportant compared to what issues forth from HIS mouth. Or at
least, that's the way you need to play it while he is in the area. And like I said, DO SOMETHING
with him that shows him you are not just a video game playing, texting, facebooking F*$K
like every other kid he sees.
Hope that helps.
Brutus2600
06-24-2010, 03:23 PM
Dang straight. Man I go out of my skull on online forums, what with all the "refined pallets"
and "Mute Points" and such. :r
Hey, I've seen some pretty refined pallets here at my work. The expensive medical equipment has to be shipped on something fancy, just can't use any old rotten pallet :r
icehog3
06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
Dang straight. Man I go out of my skull on online forums, what with all the "refined pallets"
and "Mute Points" and such. :r
I agree for "all intensive purposes".
:r
Wolfgang
06-24-2010, 03:29 PM
I blame Global warming!
IDEA: Did you rip one at dinner?
Brutus2600
06-24-2010, 03:39 PM
I agree for "all intensive purposes".
:r
You're post made me :r Their aren't many posts that make me lol. The people over in the jokes section? There posts make me laugh. Your trying to be funny though, and they're in lies the humor.
(Ugh. That made my brain hurt coming up with something to write to mistyping all those :<)
icehog3
06-24-2010, 03:42 PM
I'll be here all za veek, Brian....try the veal. :D
Brutus2600
06-24-2010, 03:43 PM
No but seriously, I did laugh at your post :D
Starscream
06-24-2010, 04:37 PM
One point that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that he may just be playing mind games with you to see how you react. Don't be uber-apoligetic, just be nice to him and mention that whatever the fact is that he is annoyed about that you are sorry and will hope not to do again, but without his input you cannot be sure of what do do.
I'd just like to chime in and say, y'all are a great bunch of dads. :)
When boys started calling the house for me, my dad made it a point to start answering the phone every time it rang. His favorite test was to ask them, "What does she look like?" If they couldn't get past brunette and glasses, they got to leave a message. The guy who mentioned the dimples got major brownie points.
My only comment to the original subject, is to watch how you talk about this situation with the lady in question. She may get on a rant about how her dad is being immature or juvenile when she gets frustrated with the situation. This is not a invitation for you to join in. Save that for your friends... or your internet forums. Dads are people too, so they're not always going to be perfect. However, that conversation could easily turn into her taking his side over yours because she feels like you've attacked him. Tread carefully.
Carry on, gents!
Crystal's point is dead on. Take it for what you will, but this is very good info.
I personally have no problems with her parents, so I dont plan on smack talking anyone. And I def. wont be ranting with her anytime soon.
Posted via Mobile Device
That's a good attitude to take if you truly love her.
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