Selig Won't Reverse Call

[BlackDog]

The umpire, Jim Joyce, apologized to Gallaraga and admitted he made a bad call, and the video shows that the runner was beat by the throw, but Selig won't reverse the call that cost Galarraga a perfect game. I'd love to know his reasoning for not changing the call. Stupid.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/06/02/detroit-tigers-pitcher-loses-perfect-game-blown/

Can't say I'd want to be Joyce when he takes the field tonight.

[awsmith4]

At least Joyce did admit his fault, I agree the call should be reversed. I still like the idea of a challenge flag like the NFL

[CigarNut]

Selig is an a$$hole. He is not man enough to do the right thing.

[shilala]

I was hoping he wouldn't reverse it. It's baseball. It's the way she goes.
The whole game relies on the human element, it's what it is. A metaphor for life.
Sometimes we get screwed in life. So goes it in baseball. That's what makes it baseball. :)
Gallaraga really got hosed awful, and this call being at the end of the game, it was the perfect time to start that "change a call" crap. I was afraid Selig would cave.
This game will be far more famous than any of the other perfect games, being "The Perfect Game That Never Was". It's in it's own category.
I'll never forget this one. I remember Halladay threw one this year, and someone else.
Being my point, I already forgot. And I live, eat, and breathe baseball. Have all my life.
I hope they never add video anything to baseball. It's Selig's job to protect that, and to make sure it stays the way it always was. A perfect game played by imperfect people. :tu

[The Poet]

I was hoping he wouldn't reverse it. It's baseball. It's the way she goes.

:tpd: Amen. Yeah, it was a blown call. I feel bad for him, the ump, both teams, and fans everywhere. But, $#!+ happens . . . and had it happened in the 3rd inning, you wouldn't even know about it today.

[bobarian]

There is no basis for reversing the call after the game is over. Joyce apologized, Leyland and Gallaraga accepted. Done. Fini.

If they had reversed it would set a dangerous precedent that would go far beyond the existing rulebook. :2

[SaltyMcGee]

:tpd: Amen. Yeah, it was a blown call. I feel bad for him, the ump, both teams, and fans everywhere. But, $#!+ happens . . . and had it happened in the 3rd inning, you wouldn't even know about it today.

I'm not sure about that. It might not have been as dramatic, but if he blew the call early and the pitcher went on to be perfect we'd definitely hear about it. This is all a part of the larger debate about replay in baseball. Those who are for it use ANY excuse to make their argument. This incident would have been perfect whenever it happened during the game, but the argument is only strengthened since it occurred in the bottom of the 9th.

[icehog3]

Tigers awarded Gallaraga a new Corvette before the game....Gallaraga is such a good guy, and he was floored by the gesture.

He also was sent to being the line-up to the umpire at home plate...who happened to be Joyce today. Joyce apologized again, his eyes full of tears.

I am glad Gallaraga is taking it well, and not letting it ruin his life that way Milt Pappas did almost 4 decades ago...he still freaks out about it in every interview he does to this day.

[SmokeyJoe]

I was hoping he wouldn't reverse it. It's baseball. It's the way she goes.
The whole game relies on the human element, it's what it is. A metaphor for life.
Sometimes we get screwed in life. So goes it in baseball. That's what makes it baseball. :)
Gallaraga really got hosed awful, and this call being at the end of the game, it was the perfect time to start that "change a call" crap. I was afraid Selig would cave.
This game will be far more famous than any of the other perfect games, being "The Perfect Game That Never Was". It's in it's own category.
I'll never forget this one. I remember Halladay threw one this year, and someone else.
Being my point, I already forgot. And I live, eat, and breathe baseball. Have all my life.
I hope they never add video anything to baseball. It's Selig's job to protect that, and to make sure it stays the way it always was. A perfect game played by imperfect people. :tu

Well said, Scott. :tu

[Cigary]

Tigers awarded Gallaraga a new Corvette before the game....Gallaraga is such a good guy, and he was floored by the gesture.

He also was sent to being the line-up to the umpire at home plate...who happened to be Joyce today. Joyce apologized again, his eyes full of tears.

I am glad Gallaraga is taking it well, and not letting it ruin his life that way Milt Pappas did almost 4 decades ago...he still freaks out about it in every interview he does to this day.

The backstory should be the "Real Story" in how one identifies what is more important. Joyce made a bad call but not because of intent but rather because he's a human and made an error after it was shown to him he made a mistake. His feelings afterward show a man who still has character even though he made a mistake...he admitted it and was sorrowful and repentant to Gallarga who knew immediately from the way Joyce expressed himself in words and action. Nobody or anything is infallible...baseball is like a "life teacher" in that you do things to the best of your ability and be true to yourself without benefit of "do overs" and time outs or "red flags"...imagine real life imitating this. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes and if you start putting up "red flags/time outs" you lose the real essence of the game and real life.

[galaga]

It's baseball. Played by people and refereed by people. The ump blew it. The game is over. The ump can't change the call. It is in the books, but by damn, the commissioner should be able to change the error. I'm all for all for not changing baseball from the way it has been played all these years. But Selig should protect the integrity of the game.

From Wikipedia:
Integrity in modern ethics
In a formal study of the term "integrity" and its meaning in modern ethics, law professor Stephen L. Carter sees integrity not only as a refusal to engage in behavior that evades responsibility[citation needed], but also as an understanding of different modes or styles in which discourse attempts to uncover a particular truth.[citation needed]
Carter writes that integrity requires three steps: "discerning what is right and what is wrong; acting on what you have discerned, even at personal cost; and saying openly that you are acting on your understanding of right from wrong." He regards integrity as being distinct from honesty.[5]

# [5] Carter, Stephen L (1996). Integrity. New York: BasicBooks/HarperCollins. pp. 7, 10. ISBN 0-06-092807-7. On page 242 Carter credits influence "to some extent by the fine discussion of integrity in Martin Benjamin's book Splitting the Difference: Compromise and Integrity in Ethics and Politics (Lawrence University Press of Kansas, 1990).

Do the right thing, Bud, you're the commissioner. :2

[The Poet]

But Selig should protect the integrity of the game.

And I would argue that he DID maintain the integrity of the game, by NOT changing the call. It all depends on how one chooses to parse it.

[wolfandwhisky]

When is Pete Rose going to get inducted? This call isn't getting reversed.

[shilala]

And I would argue that he DID maintain the integrity of the game, by NOT changing the call.
Agreed. :tu
He just upheld the trust of his position. It's not even arguable. Bud simply did what he's supposed to do.
It still made me hold my breath when I read the story this morning. It's tough to do the right thing when everyone is staring at you to make the decision that will make everyone happy.
More baseball life-ism in Bud's actions, too.

[yachties23]

:tpd: Amen. Yeah, it was a blown call. I feel bad for him, the ump, both teams, and fans everywhere. But, $#!+ happens . . . and had it happened in the 3rd inning, you wouldn't even know about it today.


Thank God, I'm not the only one who feels this way....


I'm still seriously curious as to why nobody is getting on Miguel Cabrerra's case.

If he lets the second baseman make what is obviously his play, this isn't even an issue.

[VirtualSmitty]

I hope they never add video anything to baseball. It's Selig's job to protect that, and to make sure it stays the way it always was. A perfect game played by imperfect people. :tu

They already have. Close home runs can be challenged with a video replay, if that's the case already I can't see why a bang bang play at a pivotal point of the game couldn't. Worse things have happened than this, a World Series was lost in 85 over a bad call. The human element is one thing, but personally I hate to see baseball history altered in this way. Galarraga threw a perfect game, I hope Selig gets some sense in him and overturns the call.

[galaga]

And I would argue that he DID maintain the integrity of the game, by NOT changing the call. It all depends on how one chooses to parse it.

Agreed. :tu
He just upheld the trust of his position. It's not even arguable. Bud simply did what he's supposed to do.
It still made me hold my breath when I read the story this morning. It's tough to do the right thing when everyone is staring at you to make the decision that will make everyone happy.
More baseball life-ism in Bud's actions, too.

Making the arguments that you have made about baseball being like life and "life like baseball ain't fair", tells me you are avid fans of the game. I've made the same argument, no I've told my players many times "That's baseball. Man up..." However I'm LOL at the image of baseball fans who obviously love the game, the history of the game and defend the integrity of the game, defending Bud Selig. When has Bud ever had the integrity of the game as his prime or any semblance of his auxiliary motivation? Well, I will grant you the fact that Pete Rose still isn't in the HOF can be used as an example, but I'll claim that was Fay Vincent's doing and Bud didn't have the cojones to change it....
;s if this seems directed at yens, but as you might be able to tell, I'm not to fond of B.Selig......

(so, how 'bout that DH crap? When are they going to get rid of that sh!t??? :D)

[shilala]

They already have. Close home runs can be challenged with a video replay, if that's the case already I can't see why a bang bang play at a pivotal point of the game couldn't. Worse things have happened than this, a World Series was lost in 85 over a bad call. The human element is one thing, but personally I hate to see baseball history altered in this way. Galarraga threw a perfect game, I hope Selig gets some sense in him and overturns the call.
I totally forgot about the homerun camera rule. That just started a couple years ago. They put cameras in all the parks.
That was also tried a number of years ago, like ten or fifteen, and then it was shot down.
I can see the argument for it, boundaries are not "the human element", so use what you have. Especially when foul poles are so hard to tell if the ball went over the fence inside the park.
Boundary calls cause derision between umpires, too. Two guys see it "in", two guys see it "out".
I can honestly say that I don't know if I like it or not. If I had a vote, I'd say "leave it out, period." It makes more sense that way.


Here's the thing...
Use instant replay to overrule a base ump's calls, then you need to use it to over rule home plate calls. Then balls and strikes.
Now it's football.
Plus there are years and years or footage of bad calls. Fix them, make adjustments to the games, and some teams don't make it to the playoffs that claimed the title.
Fair is fair, right?
It creates a mess that never ends. Without it, no mess. Just the day to day mess that emulates life.
If anything is precious in the game of baseball, it's the stats. How many *'s do the record books need?

I should probably also add, it's a game. Even if it's had lots and lots and lots of dollars thrown at it to make it a business, it's still a game.
All things said, it really doesn't amount to a dip of sh!t, regardless of how serious we like to let it make us feel. :)

[shilala]

Making the arguments that you have made about baseball being like life and "life like baseball ain't fair", tells me you are avid fans of the game. I've made the same argument, no I've told my players many times "That's baseball. Man up..." However I'm LOL at the image of baseball fans who obviously love the game, the history of the game and defend the integrity of the game, defending Bud Selig. When has Bud ever had the integrity of the game as his prime or any semblance of his auxiliary motivation? Well, I will grant you the fact that Pete Rose still isn't in the HOF can be used as an example, but I'll claim that was Fay Vincent's doing and Bud didn't have the cojones to change it....
;s if this seems directed at yens, but as you might be able to tell, I'm not to fond of B.Selig......

(so, how 'bout that DH crap? When are they going to get rid of that sh!t??? :D)
Don't start!!! :D
Yes, Bud's a dick. Pete's a dick, too. Pete is why Pete isn't in the HOF. Charlie Hustle is quite possibly my favorite ballplayer of all-time, and I would LOVE to see him inducted. Quite frankly, I think he lied about not betting AND lied about betting to get his way. I don't think they had anything concrete except hearsay, but Pete did it and knew. He didn't want spanked, so he went with a lie and his hidden betting didn't get outed.
Then he said "Yeah, I did it", but still didn't come clean. I don't think he ever will come clean. Poor bugger is half nuts, anyways. Another reason I love him. :)
I'd love to see the whole DH thing gone, too. Or put to both leagues. :D

[VirtualSmitty]

I totally forgot about the homerun camera rule. That just started a couple years ago. They put cameras in all the parks.
That was also tried a number of years ago, like ten or fifteen, and then it was shot down.
I can see the argument for it, boundaries are not "the human element", so use what you have. Especially when foul poles are so hard to tell if the ball went over the fence inside the park.
Boundary calls cause derision between umpires, too. Two guys see it "in", two guys see it "out".
I can honestly say that I don't know if I like it or not. If I had a vote, I'd say "leave it out, period." It makes more sense that way.


Here's the thing...
Use instant replay to overrule a base ump's calls, then you need to use it to over rule home plate calls. Then balls and strikes.
Now it's football.
Plus there are years and years or footage of bad calls. Fix them, make adjustments to the games, and some teams don't make it to the playoffs that claimed the title.
Fair is fair, right?
It creates a mess that never ends. Without it, no mess. Just the day to day mess that emulates life.
If anything is precious in the game of baseball, it's the stats. How many *'s do the record books need?

I should probably also add, it's a game. Even if it's had lots and lots and lots of dollars thrown at it to make it a business, it's still a game.
All things said, it really doesn't amount to a dip of sh!t, regardless of how serious we like to let it make us feel. :)

The instant replay rule went into effect last year, not years years ago. And it did help get a few HR calls right. I'm not sure the answer is to let managers invoke replays, or argue balls and strikes, but given the closeness of the play and situation I can't see why the umps couldn't have the option to check things over. Or maybe not. The commissioner has the power to reverse plays, if doing so threatens the sanctity of the game so much, why bother giving him the option at all. It's there for a reason, what's the point if it never gets used?

Baseball is game. And games are meant to be fun. But this kinda takes the fun out of it don't you think?

[The Poet]

And bring back the spitball!! :r

[blugill]

Are we talking about the same Bud Selig who looked the other way during the steroid era?
That's some prime protection of the game right there! Loads of integrity! Let players juice up while ratings tanked and the bleachers were empty after the strike.

The fact of the matter is that the runner was out, a perfect game was pitched, the ump apologized for a bad call, the right thing is to overturn the call but since that is the right thing, MLB won't do it.

[shilala]

The instant replay rule went into effect last year, not years years ago. And it did help get a few HR calls right. I'm not sure the answer is to let managers invoke replays, or argue balls and strikes, but given the closeness of the play and situation I can't see why the umps couldn't have the option to check things over. Or maybe not. The commissioner has the power to reverse plays, if doing so threatens the sanctity of the game so much, why bother giving him the option at all. It's there for a reason, what's the point if it never gets used?

Baseball is game. And games are meant to be fun. But this kinda takes the fun out of it don't you think?
Instant replay was tried in 99. It went into effect in August of 08.
I had to look it up. :D
I have no idea why they would give the Commissioner the power to reverse plays. Makes no sense.
If there was EVER one he could and should reverse, it was Joyce's call. It's THAT clear cut, being the next to last play and all.
That's why it had me worried. :D

I honestly don't think this outcome takes the fun out of it at all. I'm having all kinds of fun bantering with you about it, I just wish we had a porch and a cigar and a game on. :tu
Like I said earlier, it makes the perfect game that much cooler. No one will ever forget that call, much like no one has ever forgotten Bucky Dent.

Another thing is that it's gonna hang around for a good long while. There's no reason the next Commish couldn't overturn it. And Bud could still overturn it whenever he wanted. I just don't see it happening, for lots of reasons.
It really is one of those things where I could change my mind on it. But I won't. Goes to what Baseball is, and that's cool with me. It's the only reason I didn't want it overturned, and I was both pissed and hurt for Armando. I can't even put a solid finger on why it shouldn't be overturned, the only defense I have is "it just shouldn't".

[galaga]

....
Another thing is that it's gonna hang around for a good long while. There's no reason the next Commish couldn't overturn it. And Bud could still overturn it whenever he wanted. I just don't see it happening, for lots of reasons. [He just ain't got no balls, that's why]
It really is one of those things where I could change my mind on it. But I won't. Goes to what Baseball is, and that's cool with me. It's the only reason I didn't want it overturned, and I was both pissed and hurt for Armando. I can't even put a solid finger on why it shouldn't be overturned, the only defense I have is "it just shouldn't".


I knew it.
A Philly Phanatic:tf

ps Padres take the series....

[floydpink]

I kinda agree that you can't overturn a bad call by instant replay to save a perfect game on one hand, but also think Joyce obviously knew it was the last out for a perfect game and coulda been a little more favorable on a close call on another hand.

The game was won, history about to be made and the call had to be real favorable to give it to the runner.

I'm also wondering if Gallaraga might get more notice by the no-call as he would have with the perfect game he really pitched. Not that it matters.

I also find it a bit curious how leisurely Cabrera made the throw to first on a fairly routine groundball considering what was at stake.

The image that sticks with me the most from all this is how classy Gallaraga remained in an era of so many crybabies in professional sports.

[timo]

There is no basis for reversing the call after the game is over. Joyce apologized, Leyland and Gallaraga accepted. Done. Fini.

If they had reversed it would set a dangerous precedent that would go far beyond the existing rulebook. :2
:tpd:

[kelmac07]

While Gallaraga pitched a "perfect game". It is sad that he won't get the credit and while I may not agree with Bud, I understand why. If he reversed the call, the umpires "authority" would mean jack sh@t. He is only trying to preserve the integrity of the game.

[Salvelinus]

The image that sticks with me the most from all this is how classy Gallaraga remained in an era of so many crybabies in professional sports.

:tpd: This is why there is no reason to overturn the call. Both parties involved acted like adults and professionals. The umpire admitted his mistake and took it upon himself to apologize, and Gallaraga has acted with nothing but class. Not to often in sports you see good role models for young atheletes.

[icehog3]

I am glad Gallaraga is taking it well, and not letting it ruin his life that way Milt Pappas did almost 4 decades ago...he still freaks out about it in every interview he does to this day.

Pappas was on the 10 O'Clock News tonight, saying he was going to sign a baseball and shove it up Bruce Froemming's (the ump who "blew" his perfect game) ass. 40 years later, and he was ranting. What a waste of life.

[14holestogie]

The class of the game and the true fans were on display yesterday in Detroit.

Joyce got it wrong and admitted it. Gallaraga understood and forgave.
Sportsmanship at it's finest on display. That is, after all, the reason we all played the game.

[JaKaacH]

:tpd:There is no basis for reversing the call after the game is over. Joyce apologized, Leyland and Gallaraga accepted. Done. Fini.

If they had reversed it would set a dangerous precedent that would go far beyond the existing rulebook.
:2

Let it go..Move on. Its just a line or two in huge record book that statistic geeks will argue about. We all know he pitched a perfect game.

[Starscream]

Good points from both sides of the table. I agree that the decision shouldn't be overturned now, as the game continued from that point. If they had stopped the game there and argued for days about it, then the call could have been overturned, but it's too late now. Gallaraga will be better remembered now than he would have if he had an "official" perfect game. So many have already forgotten the name of Dallas Braden. He's remembered more this season b/c of his beef with A-Rod than his perfect game.

[Dave128]

I was hoping he wouldn't reverse it. It's baseball. It's the way she goes.
The whole game relies on the human element, it's what it is. A metaphor for life.
Sometimes we get screwed in life. So goes it in baseball. That's what makes it baseball. :)
Gallaraga really got hosed awful, and this call being at the end of the game, it was the perfect time to start that "change a call" crap. I was afraid Selig would cave.
This game will be far more famous than any of the other perfect games, being "The Perfect Game That Never Was". It's in it's own category.
I'll never forget this one. I remember Halladay threw one this year, and someone else.
Being my point, I already forgot. And I live, eat, and breathe baseball. Have all my life.
I hope they never add video anything to baseball. It's Selig's job to protect that, and to make sure it stays the way it always was. A perfect game played by imperfect people. :tu

I agree 100%.