Landis admits doping

[markem]

This is an excerpt from an article at the online NY Times site. The full article is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/sports/cycling/21landis.html?hp

Interesting allegations and just at the start of the European professional run. Wonder if a book is coming out soon. :rolleyes:


VISALIA, Calif. — After four years of maintaining his innocence about doping charges that ruined his reputation and caused him to be stripped of his 2006 Tour de France (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/t/tour_de_france_bicycle_race/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) title, the American cyclist Floyd Landis (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/floyd_landis/index.html?inline=nyt-per) has sent e-mail messages to several cycling officials in the United States and in Europe in which he admits using performance-enhancing drugs for most of his career.
Two of those officials said that Landis’s messages provided a detailed description of doping that began in 2002, Landis’s first year alongside then-teammate Lance Armstrong (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/lance_armstrong/index.html?inline=nyt-per). Both were riding for the successful but now-defunct United States Postal Service team. The two officials who received the e-mail did not want their names published, citing ongoing investigations, including by federal authorities, into the content of the e-mail.
In the messages, which were first reported by The Wall Street Journal, Landis accused other top American cyclists on the Postal Service team, including Armstrong, of using performance-enhancing drugs and methods. Other cyclists named were current United States road racing national champion George Hincapie, three-time Tour of California champion Levi Leipheimer and five-time United States time trial champion David Zabriskie.

[Mugen910]

ugh...I hate hearing this but I'm not surprised...Not to say that they weren't awesome athletes but I just assume most of them do it.

[Steve]

He better watch out...Armstrong will go Chuck Norris on him :D

[BryanB]

I hate when athletes get caught doping and start telling about others. Damn Jose

[Don Fernando]

now what a surprise, I really believed his denials

They all use, so what? Does that make it less impressive to ride a mountain trail? You can throw all doping in the world at me, I would not even finish the first flat stage of the tour, let alone survive 10 days in the alps.

[mosesbotbol]

I respect Landis as a rider and thought his win in TdF was deserved, but after getting caught and such a fight to say he did not dope is a sham. He would've been a lot better off just admitting to some kind of doping in past and take his 2 years off. He would have millions in the bank and be on a better team now. Look at Basso, Vino, Rico, and Miller. All back in the Pro Tour.

I have a hunch there was a sinister element that prevented him from spilling the beans.

[Mugen910]

now what a surprise, I really believed his denials

They all use, so what? Does that make it less impressive to ride a mountain trail? You can throw all doping in the world at me, I would not even finish the first flat stage of the tour, let alone survive 10 days in the alps.

It's not the achievement of just getting through the tour that makes it bad. It is the fact that it may have helped him achieve it faster than others.
To be honest of you trained and was persistant I feel anyone could finish the tour. There is a big difference between finishing and doing well while finishing.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Don Fernando]

They all use Bao, they all get help achieving a better time than others. Some just have better doctors to cover up the use of doping.

[Mugen910]

So does that "they all do it" arguement make it any better?
Posted via Mobile Device

[gnbikes]

They all use Bao, they all get help achieving a better time than others. Some just have better doctors to cover up the use of doping.

I had an interesting conversation with Bob Roll about this several years ago. He was quick to point out that although he was not accuseing anyone of dopeing, that the money was not on the detection side.
Garry-

[Mugen910]

The Bob Roll? Cool.

I would say it will always be the case...as the $$ is in the dark side first. :)
Posted via Mobile Device

[gnbikes]

The Bob Roll? Cool.

I would say it will always be the case...as the $$ is in the dark side first. :)
Posted via Mobile Device

Yup, Bobke himself. I first met him at a Mtn Bike race in 91', I have been in the bike industry since 95ish.

Greg LeMond has been saying the same thing for many years...
Garry-

[Don Fernando]

So does that "they all do it" arguement make it any better?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, as it is not cheating if everybody does it right? Landis his doping use didn't make him better than the rest if they all use, his training and talent made him better.

[The Poet]

I'm no fan of the sport, but I do find it interesting that it seems biking has about the same integrity as pro wrestling.

[safariguy]

Landis is a punk. I wanted to believe in him soooo badly. I was open to the idea that he was framed until he got convicted of the computer hacking of the labs that did the testing, then he lost me. I think he is just trying to be vindictive now and wants everyone to go down with him whether they doped or not.

[shilala]

He's a cheater and a liar by his own admission. Why in the world would anyone waste a moment's time to listen to anything he says beyond that?
I'm certainly not impressed. At least he'll make some money talking to Oprah about how he was wronged.

[Mugen910]

Yes, as it is not cheating if everybody does it right? Landis his doping use didn't make him better than the rest if they all use, his training and talent made him better.

That is the worst argument I've ever heard...why do you think that it was his talent and training that pushed him ahead and not the fact that he might have had better doctors with better procedures?

[Footbag]

I still like cycling and especially the TdF, but this destroys any respect I had for USPS or Discovery. I'd have to assume that they all were doping. Every year, they dominated. Lance didn't win because he was that good, he won because his team was that doped up.
Unfortunately, I came to this conclusion a couple of years ago. Of course, who do you root for in this sport? It's a shame.

[awsmith4]

I just hope that none of the Red Lantern recipients were doping...I mean hell, if you have to dope just to finish last then you might have well just quit in stage 1. I hope Contador is clean I really like him

[kelmac07]

He's a cheater and a liar by his own admission. Why in the world would anyone waste a moment's time to listen to anything he says beyond that?
I'm certainly not impressed. At least he'll make some money talking to Oprah about how he was wronged.

My feelings exactly. :td

[Don Fernando]

That is the worst argument I've ever heard...why do you think that it was his talent and training that pushed him ahead and not the fact that he might have had better doctors with better procedures?

that's your opinion Bao. I think they all use, most of them are just not caught, and because they all use, the doping doesn't make much difference so winning a course is still mainly skills and some luck, not the doping.

[Don Fernando]

I just hope that none of the Red Lantern recipients were doping...I mean hell, if you have to dope just to finish last then you might have well just quit in stage 1. I hope Contador is clean I really like him

Contador is linked to Dr Fuentes, no way he is clean.

[safariguy]

I just hope that none of the Red Lantern recipients were doping...I mean hell, if you have to dope just to finish last then you might have well just quit in stage 1. I hope Contador is clean I really like him

WHAT? You actually like him?!


-1 :r

Just kidding you can like anyone you want, but Fabian Cancellara is the man.

[SeanGAR]

Landis cheated? No surprise.

Armstrong cheated too? No surprise.

Where is the news here? We knew Landis was a cheater for years and certainly expected the same with Lance.

[awsmith4]

WHAT? You actually like him?!


-1 :r

Just kidding you can like anyone you want, but Fabian Cancellara is the man.

Cancellara is a spandex wearing, skinny tire riding....oh wait :D

[mosesbotbol]

I have been passionate about professional cycling for 25+ years. All of my modern era favorites have all been accused of doping. Does it bring them down from my pedastel? Not at all. Pantani will always be a God. Seeing Ullrich climb a mountain in a big chain ring, epic!

There is a lot of betting, mafia, and big money involved with pro cycling. Bribery and deceit are common. Why do you think teams are so fanatical about where their water and food comes from while in a race? Coppi was poisoned and Merckx was "asked" not to ride the Giro...

Hamilton alluded to writing a book to expose all of this and I hope he does.

I am beyond whether someone has doped or not. It's tough no matter what and I like the show. As far as I am concerned; pass the test and you're good. The testing has to be beyond reproach and has never been. Until there's that dubious shadow over the testing and governing of cycling, there will be credible suspicion.

[kazzaca]

I thought everyone in cycling doped! It's not cheating if everyone is doing it! :)

[Steve]

Actually, that NASCAR.









;s

[wolfandwhisky]

I don't buy it that Lance was doping or using PEDs. His testing routine is borderline impractical and hasn't been found out yet. I could be corrected at some point, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Don Fernando]

just legalize doping, but with some medical restrictions.

[GreekGodX]

I'm in the liar and cheater camp. Add thief in there too; people donated a combined $1million, in 2006-07(when he was denying drug use) to help pay for his legal fees. Looks like he is going to get sued due to his emails.

Doping is bad. Yes it gives you a boost at a huge price, years off your life. I don't have to give the facts on why it's bad for you. Why can't it just be about skill and pride for the game anymore? They get paid a ton of money but it never seems to be enough for any athlete. Maybe if they were taught how to hang on to some of the money they wouldn't need to cheat.

[Don Fernando]

I'm in the liar and cheater camp. Add thief in there too; people donated a combined $1million, in 2006-07(when he was denying drug use) to help pay for his legal fees. Looks like he is going to get sued due to his emails.

Liar yes, thief yes, I agree on those titels.



Doping is bad. Yes it gives you a boost at a huge price, years off your life. I don't have to give the facts on why it's bad for you. Why can't it just be about skill and pride for the game anymore? They get paid a ton of money but it never seems to be enough for any athlete. Maybe if they were taught how to hang on to some of the money they wouldn't need to cheat.

It's their choice to make weather to use or not. And I disagree with money being the only reason to use, fame and glory are a huge part of the reason too. So teaching them to be wise with their money won't solve the problem.

Let them use doping but under medical supervision to reduce the risks, that's the way to go.

[GreekGodX]

Using medical supervision is not going to help anything. First of all it is unethical for a licensed doctor to treat anyone with PED's unless that person needs it to reach homeostasis. In addition I don't think a Doctor could accurately predict how each person's body will react. There would be too many deaths to justify trying to do this.

[Don Fernando]

I expect less deaths than without the medical supervision as the situation is right now.

btw Landis his statement that Armstrong paid bribes to Hein Verbruggen (former UCI chairman) to hide a positive test in the tour de Switzerland in 2002 is bull, as Armstrong wasn't even competing in Switzerland that year. He comes clean from a previous lie with a new one.

[shilala]

Why can't it just be about skill and pride for the game anymore?
Greed, Christos. The excessive desire to acquire or possess more than one needs or deserves.
We think of sports as something pure, like when we were kids. Giving it everything we had was more than enough reward. If it wasn't, those kids were called "bad sports". It was simple, and it was good.
Dump a bunch of money in there, and all hell breaks loose. Literally.
Hopefully this mess will serve to kick Landis up the hill, and get his head right. He's got a tough road ahead of him.

[tsolomon]

Greed isn't always about money, I think ego is a big part of it. I love cycling even with all the doping either real or implied. I don't think anything that Floyd Landis says about other people has any merit at all. I'll stick with innocent until proven guilty for everyone else. :2

[yourchoice]

I hope Contador is clean I really like him

I don't know Albert, if it looks like a duck...

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-contador-doping#mwpphu-container

[Don Fernando]

'great' day today, Ricco (again), Mosquetero and Contador.

[mosesbotbol]

I don't know Albert, if it looks like a duck...

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-contador-doping#mwpphu-container

I think Contador is innocent. The amount was so small and he was clean the day before and after. There has to be spirit behind the tests too.

[yourchoice]

I think Contador is innocent. The amount was so small and he was clean the day before and after. There has to be spirit behind the tests too.

Maybe his beef was wrapped in plastic? I don't know Moses, if this new information (http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-contador-doping) is true than it's looking more and more like he is not innocent.

[Don Fernando]

I think Contador is innocent. The amount was so small and he was clean the day before and after. There has to be spirit behind the tests too.

I don't think he's innocent. Yes, the amount was small, but there are other indications that he used a blood transfusion. Combine that with his involvement with Doctor De La Fuentes and I see red flags. I know it's not enough to get him conviced, but it is a sign.

[gvarsity]

I think Contador is a jerk but I don't know enough about the current doping to condemn him. I still think it is likely he was doping but am willing to wait and see how it plays out.

I suspect that Armstrong didn't violate the letter of the law in doping but was way out ahead of the law and taking things that were not yet identified and classified as doping agents and/or couldn't be tested for by labs. I think that combined with a genetic anomaly of a heart and lung capacity, plus the unique opportunity to completely rebuild his body to fit competitive cycling following his cancer created a unique human specimen perfectly engineered for cycling.

Still I don't think that was the main reason USPS was so dominant. I'm no expert but it is my understanding is that as a team they were amazingly focused and tactically sound that they could manipulate the peloton in ways no other team could. I think people forget that cycling in the TdF is a team sport and no individual rider can win it on his own. One of the reasons I dislike Contador is because he proved to be incredibly selfish within his own team.