Joe Cigar Selling Seconds?

[naamanf]

I have been purchase a decent amount of cigars recently from CI's Joe Cigar to build up my deployment collection. I just received some Decade Toros that just don't look right. I have a box of the torpedoes at home and the quality on these just don't look to be the same caliber. Plus the wrapper seems to be dyed to make it darker, when I wet it a bit it rubs off brown. The box I have definitely didn't do this. I have not had the chance to smoke one yet thought.

So this leads me to wonder if CI is putting labels on seconds and selling them as first on JC?

[Ogre]

I hope not, I have placed 2 orders with them and everything was alright. I would contact them and see if they will set it right. Good luck brother.

[neoflex]

It would be a lie if I said that this question has never come up before on both message boards and in personal conversations with other smokers. You are not alone in wondering this same thing.

[tomc3084]

wow, this is Fd up if theyre doing this......definitely call them if you haven't already....I have seen dye rubbed of a OWR Maduro like I have seen on no other cigar before....

[Tripp]

It may be my imagination, but quite a few cigars I've gotten from JC seem inconsistent when compared to the same cigar, which I've bought elsewhere.

[naamanf]

Well at least it isn't just me then. I don't think all of them are seconds but would seem like some are. I think to be safe from now on I will just stick with CB and purchase boxes when I am looking to save a bit of cash on NCs.

[guado]

IT's CI....i stopped trusting anything from them many moons ago.

[DropTheE]

Not really a seconds thing but I have noticed that their shipping is all messed up and they are falling behind in customer service. I ordered some Camachos that were in stock two weeks ago and still have note received them. They told me that they are lost in their new warehouse and they can't find them. They tripled the order at no charge but I am still waiting on my sticks. I told them that until that I receive my order, I am giving my business to other companies that can deliver product.

Bring it to their attention, they make enough money that they should be backing up their stuff, if they can't then they should not be getting business.
Service and quality are very important to me.

[naamanf]

I just sent their customer service a WTF so we will see what they have to say.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o199/naamanf/DSC00105.jpg
They all have a funky caps that just don't look fitting of a top end cigar. Plus I am no expert but I don't think the brown from the maduro should come off onto your hands. The wrapper just has a fake brown color to it.

[akumushi]

Could it be that RP's QC is slipping, or are the Decades you've sourced from other vendors recently been much better? I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on CI. Sometimes, if you're paying a big discount for samplers, there's a reason they're discounted. They may not be seconds per se, but CI could feasably buy boxes or cases of cigars that other vendors passed up, it happens all the time with CC vendors. Also, it could be that CI has a deal with certain producers where they buy up unboxed bundles of uglies that aren't quite "seconds" but didn't make it into boxes. Something has got to explain why some of their samplers are so far below MSRP.

[neoflex]

Like I mentioned before this question has come up in the past, plus you also have the Rocky factor involved too which I do not trust the quality of his sticks too much either these days.

[quantim0]

I picked up one of their deals a while back. Out of the 3 sticks I've smoked from it, 2 have been totally plugged and unsmokable. That's the same number of plugged sticks that I've had total from all the other one's I've had. They sat in my humidor for 3 weeks before I tried the first one, so they should have had time to settle down from shipping. It makes me hesitant to order from them again.

[apNgb]

I haven't ordered from CI in quite some time. The whole Devil's Weed thing chafed my buns. But I don't think CI is that stupid to put thier business on the line by selling seconds as firsts.

[silentjon]

I picked up one of their deals a while back. Out of the 3 sticks I've smoked from it, 2 have been totally plugged and unsmokable. That's the same number of plugged sticks that I've had total from all the other one's I've had. They sat in my humidor for 3 weeks before I tried the first one, so they should have had time to settle down from shipping. It makes me hesitant to order from them again.

CI sticks are very wet. They do need a good deal of time in the humidor first. Seems like risky policy if there are seconds.

[Trouble]

Not sure about CI but Cbid sells damaged cigars. I bought a lot of cigars on Cbid and some of the boxes would be opened and resealed with a sticker that said "opened for inspection". Everyone that was "opened for inspection" was filled with damaged cigars. It was like they took all the returns for cracked wrapper or stems breaking through the wrapper and put them into one box and sent it out hoping someone would not want to take the time to return it. I stopped doing business with Cbid, CI and all affiliated companies.

[wayner123]

Is this the B&M vs online question all over again??

[RightAJ]

Couldn't tell ya for sure (does look a bit odd though), but keep in mind Rocky's stuff has changed considerably over the last 2-3 years. The original releases of OWR, Decades, etc, look and taste different from the newer ones I have found

aj

[Starz26]

Plus I am no expert but I don't think the brown from the maduro should come off onto your hands. The wrapper just has a fake brown color to it.


Thats because RP dyes their wrappers.....

[T.G]

Is this the B&M vs online question all over again??

Pretty much.

There is a 98.2% chance that Legend is getting a chubby over this crap.

[CueTheMusic]

Not sure about CI but Cbid sells damaged cigars. I bought a lot of cigars on Cbid and some of the boxes would be opened and resealed with a sticker that said "opened for inspection". Everyone that was "opened for inspection" was filled with damaged cigars. It was like they took all the returns for cracked wrapper or stems breaking through the wrapper and put them into one box and sent it out hoping someone would not want to take the time to return it. I stopped doing business with Cbid, CI and all affiliated companies.

I hope this isn't right, cause I have a box in the mail coming from Cbid... I recently ordered this: http://www.cigarsinternational.com/prodDisp.asp?item=SP-4KASST21&cat=19 from CI and everything came in wonderful shape, but I realize the daily deals and auctions might be different.

[dannysguitar]

Thats because RP dyes their wrappers.....

My thoughts exactly. I wonder what he says when confronted with this...

[wayner123]

My thoughts exactly. I wonder what he says when confronted with this...

Probably nothing as a lot of major cigar companies "dye" their wrappers.

[wayner123]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/wayner1234/Cigars/motivatorbd63beb74d15ef2232f7685d35.jpg

[T.G]

:tu

:r:r:r

[Starscream]

Legendary.:tu

[apNgb]

Not sure about CI but Cbid sells damaged cigars. I bought a lot of cigars on Cbid and some of the boxes would be opened and resealed with a sticker that said "opened for inspection". Everyone that was "opened for inspection" was filled with damaged cigars. It was like they took all the returns for cracked wrapper or stems breaking through the wrapper and put them into one box and sent it out hoping someone would not want to take the time to return it. I stopped doing business with Cbid, CI and all affiliated companies.

That sucks man
:td:td:td:td:td

[dyieldin]

Legally I do not think JC or CI could do this as Rocky would cut them from his list. On the other hand some manufacturers do sell bad runs at a discount to the big houses like CI. None the less if you are not happy with something weather it came for JC, CI or Cbid they will make it right if you give them a call.

[newlifetaxidermy]

I hate to be a cbid/CI basher, but I too have noticed that not everything on there is the same quality as what you get from other retailers. There is quite a bit of difference in the Pepin products I have bought from cbid/CI versus what I have bought at local retailers and smaller online shops. My Father is one of my favorite NC smokes. I bought a bunch of lanceros off of cbid at a steal....I smoked them, but they are like night and day compared to the same stick from a B&M....in terms of quality and flavor. Have had similar experiences with DPG black, blue, tobacos baez, and nestor miranda as well as padilla, alec bradley, oliva, et al. Now, if I see something that is not a CI exclusive advertised on the daily deal or cbid in mass quantities, I steer clear. With that said, I did get a killer deal from cbid on an outstanding box of DPG blue churchills once.

[captain53]

I buy 75% of my cigars from JC and have been for the past year - had no problems with quality or delivery.:tu

[JohnCA]

I do a lot of business with CI. I've found that when I get a shipment from CI and put it in one of the humidors, the RH goes up. This suggests to me they are sent "wet" and I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Sure beats the alternative! But every shipment also comes with an insert that says to put them up for a while before torching them (not that I listen -- I'm a repeat offender when it comes to lighting up something ROTT.)

I have probably bought in the neighborhood of 400 to 500 cigars from CI over the last five months alone. I've not detected any quality issues -- not to say others have not had them, just that I have not. And that covers everything from Padrons to Pirates (which are really good smokes, btw.)

I'd just suggest that, if you have any concerns, call them up and give them an opportunity to address your concerns and make it right. They have the reputations of CI, CB and C to worry about. Not that what others have suggested isn't true, it just seems that it wouldn't make much sense to put that much at at risk especially in the world of the Internet.

[naamanf]

I have sent them a customer service email, but I am still waiting for a reply. I also have purchase a fair amount of cigars from them and not had much of a problem until lately. My recent box purchase from CB have been in great shape without any problems. Maybe it's just the quality of RP going way down hill.

As a internet vs. B&M thing that really isn't the issue here. Last time I checked there was local B&M out here in Iraq, so that leaves me no choice but to order from the internetz. There really isn't even a good one back home so all my purchases are over the net there.

I did light one of these smokes up today and can say that it is nothing like the Decades I have smoked in the past. It had a hint of that "Decade" taste but if I had to compare it to another RP cigar I would say it tasted almost exactly like a Indian Tabac Super Fuerte. Definitely not worth the price even at the discounted JC price. Really sad if this is the fault of RP.

[Tripp]

I can't say that everything they're selling are fakes or anything like that, but have noticed inconsistencies. On a number of occasions, I've had a cigar that I bought from a B&M, or a different site, and really enjoyed it. Then a few weeks later, buy 5 or 10 of the same cigar from C-Bid, and been disappointed with every single one. This has happened to me with RP a few times, Padilla once. Inconsistency within the same pack seem to be more due to issues with storage, as they ship very wet.

[T.G]

I did light one of these smokes up today and can say that it is nothing like the Decades I have smoked in the past. It had a hint of that "Decade" taste but if I had to compare it to another RP cigar I would say it tasted almost exactly like a Indian Tabac Super Fuerte. Definitely not worth the price even at the discounted JC price. Really sad if this is the fault of RP.

Can't see how something like that could be anything but due to something at Rocky's end. Something like that is simply beyond what CI/Cbid/Cigar.com could have had influence over.

Wouldn't be the first time an RP blend has changed once the original tobacco stocks for a cigar were used up and new crops were being used to produce the cigar.

[Superbad]

Can't see how something like that could be anything but due to something at Rocky's end. Something like that is simply beyond what CI/Cbid/Cigar.com could have had influence over.

Wouldn't be the first time an RP blend has changed once the original tobacco stocks for a cigar were used up and new crops were being used to produce the cigar.

They had a Diamond Crown event last week at my local B&M. The rep stated that in his opinion the best thing about Fuente Brands is that they are consistent. I have to agree as long as things are consistently good. He estimated that Fuente has about 8 to 9 years worth of tobacco for production stored up. Crazy huh!

I purchased a humidor on CBid, and I was very happy with it.

[T.G]

They had a Diamond Crown event last week at my local B&M. The rep stated that in his opinion the best thing about Fuente Brands is that they are consistent. I have to agree as long as things are consistently good. He estimated that Fuente has about 8 to 9 years worth of tobacco for production stored up. Crazy huh!


Meh. I've had inconstant Fuentes, and they were Opus Xs to boot. Pure ammonia bombs, the tobacco used in that release had no age on it.

Unfortunately, most reps are full of ****.

The only people I would believe when they say that they have tobacco stockpiled for X number of years is General Cigar and Padron, and to a lesser extent, Altadis. It's pretty widely known that General won't even create and launch a cigar unless they have 5-7 years of tobacco stored up for it, and that's 5-7 years at their volume numbers, which are probably 5-10-20 times higher than anyone else's volume numbers. Padron's tobacco stockpiles are legendary, so cut that in half for realism or skepticism and it's still a massive amount. Altadis, see General cigar above, they're just not as good at stockpiling as General.

[Superbad]

Meh. I've had inconstant Fuentes, and they were Opus Xs to boot. Pure ammonia bombs, the tobacco used in that release had no age on it.

Unfortunately, most reps are full of ****.

The only people I would believe when they say that they have tobacco stockpiled for X number of years is General Cigar and Padron, and to a lesser extent, Altadis. It's pretty widely known that General won't even create and launch a cigar unless they have 5-7 years of tobacco stored up for it, and that's 5-7 years at their volume numbers, which are probably 5-10-20 times higher than anyone else's volume numbers. Padron's tobacco stockpiles are legendary, so cut that in half for realism or skepticism and it's still a massive amount. Altadis, see General cigar above, they're just not as good at stockpiling as General.


I don't trust what most rep's say, but I do agree that I want consistency in a product. I hate getting something that is great in one box, and the next box tastes like it was made somewhere else, with totally different ingredients.
I like Opus, but they have to sit for a year before I touch them. I think it is amazing how much tobacco must be stored up between all the big manufacturers.

[T.G]

I don't trust what most rep's say, but I do agree that I want consistency in a product. I hate getting something that is great in one box, and the next box tastes like it was made somewhere else, with totally different ingredients.
I like Opus, but they have to sit for a year before I touch them. I think it is amazing how much tobacco must be stored up between all the big manufacturers.

I'm with you bro. and I would venture to guess that we all want consistancy, be it good or bad, in a line of cigars from any given manufacturer.

[newlifetaxidermy]

Back to the topic at hand. I don't want to imply that CI/cbid is selling crap or that the cigars are poorly made, not smokeable,etc. I just do not believe their cigars in all cases are the same as what other B&Ms or smaller online retailers receive. Like Tripp said, on multiple cigar lines, I have bought and enjoyed sticks from the local B&M (just a few weeks ago, it was the AB SCR). Then, I purchase the same thing on cbid and other than size and band, the two sticks are nothing alike. So, my feeling is that some manufacturers are making cigars especially for CI that are of lower quality (mostly underfilled) or use a lower grade tobacco so that they can give them a smoking deal....which they pass along to their shoppers. The other possibility is that CI buys all the seconds/rejects and somehow convinces the manufacturers to label them as firsts. Not sure of what is going on, but, at least in my mind, not all of what CI/cbid sells is first quality. Like I said, I would not call any of these seconds crap, because I do smoke this stuff on a regular basis. I just would not call them premium cigars.

[Dunkel]

Most of the cigars I've bought have been from C-Bid, Joe's, CI, or Cigar.com. I've never had any problem with anything.

[Bax]

Back to the topic at hand. I don't want to imply that CI/cbid is selling crap or that the cigars are poorly made, not smokeable,etc. I just do not believe their cigars in all cases are the same as what other B&Ms or smaller online retailers receive. Like Tripp said, on multiple cigar lines, I have bought and enjoyed sticks from the local B&M (just a few weeks ago, it was the AB SCR). Then, I purchase the same thing on cbid and other than size and band, the two sticks are nothing alike. So, my feeling is that some manufacturers are making cigars especially for CI that are of lower quality (mostly underfilled) or use a lower grade tobacco so that they can give them a smoking deal....which they pass along to their shoppers. The other possibility is that CI buys all the seconds/rejects and somehow convinces the manufacturers to label them as firsts. Not sure of what is going on, but, at least in my mind, not all of what CI/cbid sells is first quality. Like I said, I would not call any of these seconds crap, because I do smoke this stuff on a regular basis. I just would not call them premium cigars.

So are you saying there might be a slight possibility that there are 2 types of cigars? 1 for B&M's and 1 for online retailers?:r

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I think the answer is simple. It's the manufacturer that is sneaking in lesser quallity stock into the larger internet retailers orders. Every producer has stock that is just barely under standard. Throw them away or sneak them in a big order? CI will not open every box for sale like a B&M would. By the time the poorer sticks are discovered they're in a third persons hands and much less likely to get returned. It's all about profit margins.

So in short, blame the manufacturer.

[Kreth]

When is Legend gonna weigh in on this thread? :r
Posted via Mobile Device

[neoflex]

As far as the Rocky thing, For a while now I have been saying if Rocky comes out with something you like , snatch up as many boxes as you can as it is likely that the next time you grab another box it may or may not taste the same. This has just been my experience so take it for what its worth. As far as the online retailer thing. I have only experienced inconsistencies with the Joe Cigar deals.

[lightning9191]

When is Legend gonna weigh in on this thread? :r
Posted via Mobile Device

You have to say his name three times in a row :r

[lightning9191]

I have sent them a customer service email, but I am still waiting for a reply.


If you have the opportunity, give them a phone call. It will pry get sorted out a lot quicker.

[newlifetaxidermy]

So are you saying there might be a slight possibility that there are 2 types of cigars? 1 for B&M's and 1 for online retailers?:r

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I think the answer is simple. It's the manufacturer that is sneaking in lesser quallity stock into the larger internet retailers orders. Every producer has stock that is just barely under standard. Throw them away or sneak them in a big order? CI will not open every box for sale like a B&M would. By the time the poorer sticks are discovered they're in a third persons hands and much less likely to get returned. It's all about profit margins.

So in short, blame the manufacturer.

I'm not saying there are sticks for B&Ms and different sticks for online retailers. What I'm saying is that "some" of the big online retailers are knowingly buying the lesser quality stock, so that they can sell it cheap on their daily/weekly special or auctions. If it were happening on occasion, I would believe that it is just the mfg being sneaky, but it is happening across multiple mfgs. I will go it a step further and say that if you purchase a box at full price (ie not the daily/weekly special or auction) from these retailers, you get a different quality. Have you noticed that there are no seconds for sale from a lot of mfgs? There has to be a certain amount of production that is off color, underfilled, improperly blended, etc. What happens to those?

[T.G]

I'm not saying there are sticks for B&Ms and different sticks for online retailers. What I'm saying is that "some" of the big online retailers are knowingly buying the lesser quality stock, so that they can sell it cheap on their daily/weekly special or auctions. If it were happening on occasion, I would believe that it is just the mfg being sneaky, but it is happening across multiple mfgs. I will go it a step further and say that if you purchase a box at full price (ie not the daily/weekly special or auction) from these retailers, you get a different quality. Have you noticed that there are no seconds for sale from a lot of mfgs? There has to be a certain amount of production that is off color, underfilled, improperly blended, etc. What happens to those?

They sell them to online vendors at a deep discount and mark the boxes with a sticker that says "Hold for James in North Carolina or Tripp in Oregon"

[newlifetaxidermy]

They sell them to online vendors at a deep discount and mark the boxes with a sticker that says "Hold for James in North Carolina or Tripp in Oregon"

You might be on to something...:=:

[Ogre]

Its a conspiracy. Lets test to make sure. Send me one or more of said sticks and I will compare them to the real things. LOL.

Now on a serious side, I am watching this to see if that is what is going on. I have received an order from CI without question. I have a current Cbid order being shipped. I will post on the quality when I receive it.

[Tuxguy]

My thoughts exactly. I wonder what he says when confronted with this...

I will ask him tonight. He is coming for an event.

[T.G]

I will ask him tonight. He is coming for an event.

Make sure you take one of these with you for when you get the answer:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41aERKDSAUL._SS400_.jpg

[OLS]

Hate to say this again if someone already has, but it is not uncommon in the industry today to
spray tobacco with tobacco juice and squeezins to get that consistent look of Maduro for that
which a precedent may have already been set. Maduro launch cigars may be one color, and the
next harvest's materials might not allow for the same color match, and the tobacco could be
sprayed. And it WILL come off on your fingers and lips. Per-DOH-mo cigars first real luxury line
was like this. The had a cigar called X that was a square pressed torpedo and at FIRST they
were great cigars. Then as time went by they just started SUCKING A$$. They were all treated
wrappers on the maduros. This is not the same as dying wrappers, but it IS really in the end. But
there is a great chance that the vendor has nothing to do with it.

--------------------------------

"And that covers everything from Padrons to Pirates" Well, to be honest, that's not a very big range, LOL.

[T.G]

Hate to say this again if someone already has, but it is not uncommon in the industry today to
spray tobacco with tobacco juice and squeezins to get that consistent look of Maduro for that
which a precedent may have already been set. Maduro launch cigars may be one color, and the
next harvest's materials might not allow for the same color match, and the tobacco could be
sprayed. And it WILL come off on your fingers and lips. Per-DOH-mo cigars first real luxury line
was like this. The had a cigar called X that was a square pressed torpedo and at FIRST they
were great cigars. Then as time went by they just started SUCKING A$$. They were all treated
wrappers on the maduros. This is not the same as dying wrappers, but it IS really in the end. But
there is a great chance that the vendor has nothing to do with it.

--------------------------------

"And that covers everything from Padrons to Pirates" Well, to be honest, that's not a very big range, LOL.

Thanks Brad. I've gotten so sick of arguing what you just said with people that I don't even bother to mention it anymore.

I think the last time I mentioned it (on another forum) it went 140 someodd posts with people arguing back and forth over it. Everything from cheating to unnatural to trying to explain the differnces and why and if only people realized how many manufacturers did this, they'd probably change their tune or stop smoking maduros alltogether.

[JohnCA]

"And that covers everything from Padrons to Pirates" Well, to be honest, that's not a very big range, LOL.

heh Could have put that better. :r

[Smokin Gator]

I only buy two things from cBid anymore... DPG Blue Exquisitos and 1977 Blacks. I have never had a problem. I know that doesn't add much to the discussion other than what it is.

[Ogre]

Thanks Brad. I've gotten so sick of arguing what you just said with people that I don't even bother to mention it anymore.

I think the last time I mentioned it (on another forum) it went 140 someodd posts with people arguing back and forth over it. Everything from cheating to unnatural to trying to explain the differnces and why and if only people realized how many manufacturers did this, they'd probably change their tune or stop smoking maduros alltogether.
:tpd:, maybe people will stop smoking maduros and the price will come down for those of us that dont mind. Guess thats asking to much.

[naamanf]

Thank you for choosing Cigars International! I am very sorry to hear that you were not happy with your last shipment. I can gladly set up a exchange or return for you. Please let me advise you that we do not dye cigars sometimes the tobacco can react to a wrapper. I can assure you as well these are not seconds.

From CI customer service. The "we" statement is a bit strange. Seems to either infer that they have something to do with the production of the cigars or are putting the blame on the manufacturer. Or I'm just reading into it to much.

I think that they might purchase runs of cigars the manufacturer wants to get rid of. I have some of the AB Tempus Quadrums from CI that AB doesn't show as a size they produce in the Tempus line, and doesn't taste/burn like the ones I have had from a B&M.

[akumushi]

From CI customer service. The "we" statement is a bit strange. Seems to either infer that they have something to do with the production of the cigars or are putting the blame on the manufacturer. Or I'm just reading into it to much.

I think that they might purchase runs of cigars the manufacturer wants to get rid of. I have some of the AB Tempus Quadrums from CI that AB doesn't show as a size they produce in the Tempus line, and doesn't taste/burn like the ones I have had from a B&M.

And then they call it a CI Exclusive,:rolleyes:

[T.G]

From CI customer service. The "we" statement is a bit strange. Seems to either infer that they have something to do with the production of the cigars or are putting the blame on the manufacturer. Or I'm just reading into it to much.


It was a poorly written response and you are reading too much into it.

CI is just a vendor. Somehow, I don't picture Steve and Keith in the back of the warehouse with paint brushes and cans of minwax giggling "heh. let's see if he likes american walnut poly."

[OLS]

heh Could have put that better. :r

Yes, but when you thought "I won't DIGNIFY Acids with a mention", you did the right thing. And who knows
Zino cigars anymore? I think they still sell em. :r:D

[OLS]

And look at Lew R0thman. He often states right out in the open, "I bought the entire stock of
cigars that were being stored in the aging rooms at the factory. I have no idea what these cigars
were going to be sold as, but I am passing the savings on to you. They could be 18 dollar cigars
or they could be crap."
I would trace any problems with the cigars straight to the manufacturer. Only they know what
is actually happening. COULD be some wink-nod business going on, but who's fault is it at the
heart of it? That's right, the manufacturer. Also one should not rule out the humidity factor. Wet cigars
taste nothing like properly humidified and ready to smoke cigars. Not saying this has anything to do
with long term taste probs, but there you go.

[aich75013]

Somehow, I don't picture Steve and Keith in the back of the warehouse with paint brushes and cans of minwax giggling "heh. let's see if he likes american walnut poly."
:r:r