Motorcyclists and non-riders , I would like opinions on this story

[newcigarz]

I just can't believe what I read here.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/04/this-is-why-cops-and-bikers-do.html

[MiamiE]

I am fine with the fact he pulled over the motorcycle, I mean he was going 100+. The rest is just a little weird.

[newcigarz]

I am fine with the fact he pulled over the motorcycle, I mean he was going 100+. The rest is just a little weird.

How about drawing out his weapon?

[floydpink]

Probaly more to the story, but from what I saw, it seems like you have a case of an officer giving officers a bad name and a biker giving bikers a bad name.

ABATE was recently at an event I attend trying to get people to sign a petition.

Apparantly Florida is considering legislation that would allow the confiscation of a motorcycle going more than 40mph over the posted speed limit.

They argue it unfairly targets bikers and the same should be applied to cars.

I agree in some aspects.

Personally I never go that fast and won't ride with anyone who does.

It may seem like I'm painting with a broad brush, but nearly every time someone is riding like that, it is a guy in his
20's on a metric bike thinking he's a lot cooler than he really is.

[MiamiE]

I am not an LEO so I have no idea, I can only assume he didnt want the guy trying to ride away.

[newcigarz]

Probaly more to the story, but from what I saw, it seems like you have a case of an officer giving officers a bad name and a biker giving bikers a bad name.


I think this a fair assesment

[68TriShield]

I think this a fair assesment

[It's guys like Graber that we have to blame for police aggressively targeting motorcyclists]

I think this quote is too Tony.

[safariguy]

Interesting that the author says that only a small percentage of riders give the others a bad name, but ALL cops are "gun-toting thugs."
That cop should have no expectation of privacy regarding being videoed. He is clearly a lunatic and should be criminally charged with assault with a deadly weapon, (and obstruction of justice if he did not put in his report that he drew his gun on a suspect.)
BTW, I am a cop, and a rider. So that must mean that I beat myslef up sometims for no reason, right? ;)

[newcigarz]

[It's guys like Graber that we have to blame for police aggressively targeting motorcyclists]

I think this quote is too Tony.

Agreed David.
I don't ride like that, but have suffered the scrutiny from local LEOs because there are those out there that do.

[68TriShield]

Agreed David.
I don't ride like that, but have suffered the scrutiny from local LEOs because there are those out there that do.
I bet you have Tony and didn't think for a second you'd ride like that.
Public roads are not the place to ride like a daredevil.

[pnoon]

"Anthony Graber was out for a leisurely ride, a leisurely ride that saw him wheelie through traffic on I-95 at over 100mph before reaching speeds that appear to be in excess of 140mph. "

Leisurely? :r

While the actions of the police officer are questionable, if this cement-head is not doing wheelies in traffic at 100+mph, none of this would have happened. Sorry, this a-hole was threatening the safety of those around him. I have absolutely no sympathy for him. None.

[MarioF]

This is the part I find interesting:
Graber, who pled guilty to the 80 in a 65 ticket he was issued at the stop, felt aggrieved by Uhler's thuggery and decided to upload a video of the traffic stop to YouTube so the whole world could share in the experience.
Obviously he got cut a break, he could of been charged with reckless driving along with a lot of other charges and he probably could of been arrested. But he still felt it was necessary to go after the undercover cop. The officer should have identified himself better but Graber wouldn't be put in that position if he wasn't driving like an idiot.

[cbsmokin]

Watching the video it seemed to me that uniforms were very close behind so they must have already been notified of the irresponsible rider. Shouldn't the UC just have continued reporting and allowed the patrol car to handle the situation?

As to the right to privacy stuff, good luck. There is very little if any right to privacy out in the open when in plain sight of all who pass by. Probably the true story is that the district attorney seized the computer to use the video against the rider.

[icehog3]

The rider put lots of people at risk with his riding and should have his license revoked.

I do not believe the cop ever pointed the weapon at the rider, he unholstered and approached the rider with the gun in the "hunt" position. This is not uncommon when dealing with the unknown, although I would not point the weapon and put my finger on the trigger until it became a deadly force situation. I just don't see the "aggressiveness" that is being claimed here.

The whole search warrant, detention situation sounds way over the top. There are less obtrusive ways to get the video removed from youtube, and I think the wiretapping charge was a bogus means to an end.

[newcigarz]

The rider put lots of people at risk with his riding and should have his license revoked.

I do not believe the cop ever pointed the weapon at the rider, he unholstered and approached the rider with the gun in the "hunt" position. This is not uncommon when dealing with the unknown, although I would not point the weapon and put my finger on the trigger until it became a deadly force situation. I just don't see the "aggressiveness" that is being claimed here.

The whole search warrant, detention situation sounds way over the top. There are less obtrusive ways to get the video removed from youtube, and I think the wiretapping charge was a bogus means to an end.

Thanks for weighing in on this Tom.

[icehog3]

Thanks for weighing in on this Tom.

I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts, Tony.

I guess I have bias in both directions, being a rider and an LEO.

[newcigarz]

I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts, Tony.

I guess I have bias in both directions, being a rider and an LEO.

I have watched the video multiple times.
1) The rider endangers everyone around him with his disregard for safety on a public road with moderate to heavy traffic.
2) sounds like he got off real easy with the ticket. Could have/should have been reckless driving.
3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.
4) the "wiretapping" charge just drives me crazy.

[Darrell]

I don't really see where the Officer was in the bad. He stopped, drew his weapon, and ordered the rider off the bike. It's not like the guy was riding his big wheel down Main st eating cotton candy and drinking Pepsi Cola. He was being a menace and just because the Officer didn't "lay the badge on him" as my Grandpa would call it, doesn't mean he did not handle the situation properly. It's not like he threw the guy off the bike and put the pistol in his mouth.

As far as the wire tapping goes, a Judge has to sign those warrants, he must have felt that the Police has cause to enter the home. Is it overkill? Yeah, for a Youtube video, probably.

Overall, I think the Officer handled the situation fine, the rider was an obvious menace and needed to be dealt with swiftly.

:2

[icehog3]

3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.


I wish there was audio, all we have is the rider's claim that the officer did not identify himself as such, and I am not sure I would take him at his word.

Remember that LEOs, via Supreme Court case law, are not judged by the "reasonable man" theory, but by the "reasonable police officer" theory...based on the totality of circumstances, the information available at the moment, and not to be judged by "Monday morning quarterbacking".

Based on what I saw, was it reasonable for the officer to pull his car in front of the stopped mototrcycle, unholster his weapon, and assertively approach the rider in an attempt to stop his reckless behavior? I'd say it absolutely was reasonable. :2

[Cigary]

Probaly more to the story, but from what I saw, it seems like you have a case of an officer giving officers a bad name and a biker giving bikers a bad name.

ABATE was recently at an event I attend trying to get people to sign a petition.

Apparantly Florida is considering legislation that would allow the confiscation of a motorcycle going more than 40mph over the posted speed limit.

They argue it unfairly targets bikers and the same should be applied to cars.

I agree in some aspects.

Personally I never go that fast and won't ride with anyone who does.

It may seem like I'm painting with a broad brush, but nearly every time someone is riding like that, it is a guy in his
20's on a metric bike thinking he's a lot cooler than he really is.

I'm in agreement here as I have been riding motorcycles for 40 years and as with most things there are incidents out there that defy imagination. Not knowing the full details or the back story except from this report I'd say going 100mph is where things started to go wrong. The policeman should have identified himself in a more appropriate manner but there are some policemen who get "emotionally" involved in the incident where they stop being a policeman and act out with reactionary motives.

I also agree with the statement that most times it is some kid on a crotch rocket who is not using sound judgement and is "overtaken" by his feel of freedom of going fast and taking chances that gives other motorcyclists a bad name. It is a well known fact that the judgement part of the brain is not fully developed until the age of 25 which makes you think about the ramifications of what goes on out there.:confused:

[Resipsa]

"Anthony Graber was out for a leisurely ride, a leisurely ride that saw him wheelie through traffic on I-95 at over 100mph before reaching speeds that appear to be in excess of 140mph. "

Leisurely? :r

While the actions of the police officer are questionable, if this cement-head is not doing wheelies in traffic at 100+mph, none of this would have happened. Sorry, this a-hole was threatening the safety of those around him. I have absolutely no sympathy for him. None.
Right on Peter!

1) First of all, guys who ride like this give us all a bad name. No sympathy for him at all, none, zero, bumpkis.

2) why did the PO pull his gun? No idea. Maybe he saw some lunatic endangering the lives of everyone on the highway and thought he may be fleeing a triple homicide, or had just robbed a bank, or was high on something, or was mentally deranged.....and pulled the gun for his own safety. Seems like a pretty proportional response to me. It's clear from the video he holsters the weapon almost immediately. Never even pointed it at the rider, although he probably should have given the circumstances. I fail to see what anyone thinks he did "wrong".

3) As additional evidence of what a jackass the rider is, given the fact the camera is rolling throughout, apparently it was HIS PLAN to go out and endanger not only his own safety but the safety of others on a public highway. Not cool at all.

4) As far as being charged with wiretapping......oh well. Is that what the statute says? Oh well then. He posted the video with the express intention of embarassing the PO, when he himself is the jackhole here. Huh. Guess it kind of backfired on him. ;)

5) And this is tongue in cheek. Tony, STOP READING THAT SITE, :r:r

Obviously the author and others there have an ax to grind with LEO's, and don't mind twisting the facts in order to do it.

[Resipsa]

I wish there was audio, all we have is the rider's claim that the officer did not identify himself as such, and I am not sure I would take him at his word.

Remember that LEOs, via Supreme Court case law, are not judged by the "reasonable man" theory, but by the "reasonable police officer" theory...based on the totality of circumstances, the information available at the moment, and not to be judged by "Monday morning quarterbacking".

Based on what I saw, was it reasonable for the officer to pull his car in front of the stopped mototrcycle, unholster his weapon, and assertively approach the rider in an attempt to stop his reckless behavior? I'd say it absolutely was reasonable. :2+1:tu

[akumushi]

As a laymen, the cop didn't seem very "thuggish" to me. I don't know whether or not the gun was necessary, but he never pointed it at the guy and it went back into the holster as soon as he had the guy stopped. All in all his actions seemed pretty professional in the heat of the moment, especially considering how often riders try to flee when they see the police. I think the uniforms laid back so the plain-clothes could stop him unawares without spooking him first and starting a highspeed chase that would have ended disasterously.:2
As for the idiot on the bike, in Cali he would have been arrested for the speed alone, as they can take you in for anything 100+ Not to even mention the wreckless driving on top of that. He should have considered himself to be getting a lucky break and have called it a day. Posting the video was petty and while I think it is over the top what the police did to get the video and the wiretapping charges are bogus, there's a lot of leeway in search and seizure since the Patriot act, so while it shows how much our freedoms have been eroded in the last ten years, its not out of keeping with the general climate of our times, I've had friends get their house invaded on far less substantial claims.
I've had two friends that rode like that. One's dead and left a 2 year old child behind, the other is now a paraplegic with severe brain damage that makes talking nearly impossible. He is a huge and painful burden on his family. Riders like that endanger themselves and everyone around them in a reckless manner and deserve a good smack down by the law. It'll save their families a lot of grief down the line.

[Ashcan Bill]

I don't think the officer was out of bounds in drawing a weapon. He didn't point it at the guy and holstered it quickly.

And the guy isn't exactly a model citizen. He deserves whatever he gets.

What bothers me, assuming it's all factual, is the aftermath of raiding the guy's home and confiscating things. Even though the bike rider may be an idiot, that's a little too over the top for me to support. We have to have limits on both the good guys and the bad guys.

I say they all need a good kick in the a** :2

[newcigarz]

5) And this is tongue in cheek. Tony, STOP READING THAT SITE, :r:r


I'll take that under advisement counselor ;)

[floydpink]

I wouldn't have minded seeing the guy forced to sit bare assed on the hot pipe for being such a reckless rider and had "Suzuki" branded on to remind him of his asshattery.

[akumushi]

I wouldn't have minded seeing the guy forced to sit bare assed on the hot pipe for being such a reckless rider and had "Suzuki" branded on to remind him of his asshattery.

:r:r:r

[SeanGAR]

The bike rider should have his license revoked for a minimum of 5 years. I see no problem with the cop having his gun drawn, the bike rider was acting completely irresponsibly. The warrant - well, that's the judge's fault.

[LasciviousXXX]

All good and valid points made. My only issue is I don't think we're being given the whole story. Obviously the writer of the article is putting a nice big SLANT on this story and the fact that he feels Officers should be targeting "hippies" and "foreigners" makes me question his credibility even more.

I would love the full story as the way its written now leaves me with more questions than answers. :2

[newcigarz]

I found another video of just the end, but with sound.
he says twice to the rider to get off the motorcycle, and the third time he says get off the motorcycle, State Police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjjF55M8JQ&feature=related

[Resipsa]

I found another video of just the end, but with sound.
he says twice to the rider to get off the motorcycle, and the third time he says get off the motorcycle, State Police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjjF55M8JQ&feature=relatedthe second video Tony just got of amplifies in my mind what a douchebag the rider is. Apparently the first time he posted the entire video, and must not have liked some of the comments directed at him.

Solution:

Just post another video with only the last 20 or so seconds, where he is just sitting there looking like he's minding his own business and someone pulls a gun on him.


Quote: " I got pulled over for speeding and the cop decided to pull out his sidearm... Thought I'd share it. "

Really? Is that what happenned, you got pulled over for speeding and some PO pulled a gun on you?

What a tool. This guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, apparently.:r

[newcigarz]

What a tool. This guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, apparently.:r


Yeah and some of the comments on youtube are scary.

[1badhog07]

Personally i think both of them are in the wrong.this so called kid gives legitamate bikers a bad rap,and i think too many cops head swells up when they get a badge and gun.

[Nick]

5-0 could have pulled his badge just as easily as his gun. He needs to remember that he's in street clothes and not be pulling guns in these situations.

[jitzy]

As a LEO I'll say this, The cop had no Idea why this guy took so long to pull over and yes that was a long time just think how far you could travel in just 30 seconds. Most reasonable people pull right over and don't run from the cops so to the cop he may have been wondering why is this guy running maybe he's got a gun of his own. Lets put it like this neither the cop or the motorcycle rider had dinner together the night before and DO NOT KNOW each other. When the officer saw the situation was safe he holstered his weapon no harm no foul. As for the warrant and other stuff it just sounds like revenge to me.

[jitzy]

5-0 could have pulled his badge just as easily as his gun. He needs to remember that he's in street clothes and not be pulling guns in these situations.

sometimes pulling that shield first before the gun could mean life or death.

[icehog3]

Personally i think both of them are in the wrong.this so called kid gives legitamate bikers a bad rap,and i think too many cops head swells up when they get a badge and gun.

How does it seem to you that this guy's head is swollen? Nice stereotyping. :2

5-0 could have pulled his badge just as easily as his gun. He needs to remember that he's in street clothes and not be pulling guns in these situations.

]sometimes pulling that shield first before the gun could mean life or death[/B].

Exactly, jitzy....and those who haven't lived that reality aren't really credible when commenting on what "5-0" should or shouldn't do. :2

[G G]

All good and valid points made. My only issue is I don't think we're being given the whole story. Obviously the writer of the article is putting a nice big SLANT on this story and the fact that he feels Officers should be targeting "hippies" and "foreigners" makes me question his credibility even more.

I would love the full story as the way its written now leaves me with more questions than answers. :2
I agree.:tu

[G G]

sometimes pulling that shield first before the gun could mean life or death.
Dang, you beat me to it, that's what I was thinking as I was reading your post. I am not a LEO but I really hate to see the news anymore when the Police are involved in pulling a gun or God forbid having to actually use it. You always see all the folks in the neighborhood commenting on the news that they shouldn't have used force blah blah blah. It's very easy for me to sit here and say what they should have done, but like Tom points out, till you been there, you don't have an appreciation for what these guys have to go through. Just remember most of them have family that they want to get back home to in one piece when the shift is over.

[Neuromancer]

See the problem here? Police have a nearly unlimited ability to break the law and **** with us. People who pull wheelies and excessively speed through traffic make them want to **** with us. It's guys like Graber that we have to blame for police aggressively targeting motorcyclists instead of, say, hippies or foreigners. While we wish we lived in a world where police weren't little more than gun-toting thugs, we don't. Ride responsibly, at least when other people are around, and less of us will get the Uhler treatment. Ok?

Here's how an old bike riding outlaw looks at this...first of the rider broke some traffic laws...so what? That warrents a ticket...not an attack of a maniacal gun waving thug-cop...the cop could have stepped out of his car after blocking the rider then identified himself as a LEO and asked the guy to get off the bike rather then running up waving a gun and grabbing the bike which he had no right to do...what he had business to do was to call a marked car to stop the biker not cut him off and start waving a gun in his face yelling at him to get off the bike...I'd tape that too...at that point you have no idea the guys a cop...especially considering he's handling this in the worst possible way he could handle it...furthermore, they were out in public...never before heard where you can't video something or take a picture in public...did it catch the cop acting like a wild man? Yep...and posting on YouTube? After that kind of treatment I'd want the world to know what the cops are pulling...I've already been in one showdown with a bunch of gun-waving cop-thugs, and you have no idea how overboard they go...hell, when I was in the middle of it I called the news stations so if the cops shot me or anything at least the truth would get out...and I was unarmed when this was going down...all these f'ing cops have Wyatt Earp complexes these days and don't feel they have to obey the laws they're sworn to protect...I hope the rider gets himself a good attorney and sues those jackasses for violation of his civil rights, including the reason-less raiding of his house and confiscation of his computer...for that matter sue the judge who handed out such a groundless warrent too...the cops there have acted like the jack-booted thugs they are...get a civil rights attorney to hand them a smack-down...

[floydpink]

Greg,

I'll bet as an EMT, you've seen your fair share of motorcyclists scraped off the road.

I have a friend who, ironically, is nicknamed "Lucky". He has been hit 3 times, all of which were not his fault and has two stickers on the windshield of his Heritage Softail.

One says, "crippled old biker bastards", and the second, "It's not the destination, it's the journey", the second I really like and try to practice.

He recently had a helicopter ride to the hospital trauma unit and was hit by an uninsured motorist and has mounting medical bills and a reconstructed shoulder.


At those speeds, you have zero chances of surviving or reacting and will likely take out someone else.



Slow down dude, enjoy the scenery.

[G G]

Greg,

I'll bet as an EMT, you've seen your fair share of motorcyclists scraped off the road.

A few. I ride myself, but not at those speeds. I have never had a gun pulled on me by a police officer either, or even stopped while riding. I guess the crazy cops just don't see that much value in pulling over someone who mostly obeys the traffic laws.:rolleyes:

[floydpink]

A few. I ride myself, but not at those speeds. I have never had a gun pulled on me by a police officer either, or even stopped while riding. I guess the crazy cops just don't see that much value in pulling over someone who mostly obeys the traffic laws.:rolleyes:

Personally, I think the whole "cops hate bikers" thing is not true and wave to the Sheriffs on Road Kings I see around me and have had no problems with any.

I'm also careful to pass judgement on someone who faces danger and split second decisions every day to protect the public for relatively low pay.

This was the scene of my crime and no cows were harmed by my actions...
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc266/rastapete69/country.jpg

The problem on this particular day was Jack's has a rib special on wednesdays and the chimney was smokin, that means they're open, and the ribs don't last long and neither do the beans...

Anyone would have done the same in my situation..

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc266/rastapete69/jacks.jpg

[St. Lou Stu]

I have watched the video multiple times.

3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.


Me too, and the one thing I did see is that the rider did 'push back' from the unmarked vehicle.... was he going to flee? hard to judge.
I saw a badge on the hip of the unmarked right away. That is identification enough. If I can read lips at all, it looks like there was a verbal identification.

Was the officer threatened? If he felt that way, he had every right. It is a helluva lot harder to react to a motorcycle speeding away than it is to immediately take control of the situation as he did. Once control was established, the weapon was holstered. Kudos for that.

All MHO, of course. What do I know? :)

[1badhog07]

How does it seem to you that this guy's head is swollen? Nice stereotyping. :2





Exactly, jitzy....and those who haven't lived that reality aren't really credible when commenting on what "5-0" should or shouldn't do. :2

well tom how do you figure i am sterotyping,as a over-the-road truck driver for over 14 years,i have seen first hand how some cops and dps carry there attitude on there shoulders.NO i am not saying all law enforcement are bad,in fact many of them have went out of there way to help me out when i broke down,and i have a few law enforcement friends here in laredo,so i can only comment on my experiences...:2

[jitzy]

well tom how do you figure i am sterotyping

That was just as much a stereotype as saying "to many" black people steal or "to many" irish guys are drunks thats why its called stereotyping. Look I don't think you hate all cops but your statement was wrong

[Resipsa]

That was just as much a stereotype as saying "to many" black people steal or "to many" irish guys are drunks thats why its called stereotyping. Look I don't think you hate all cops but your statement was wrong

Maybe this one will better get the point across:

http://www.examiner.com/x-6121-Oklahoma-Crime-Examiner~y2009m4d6-Serial-killers-linked-to-truckersFBI-analysis-began-with-Oklahoma-I40-case

http://www.newcriminologist.com/article.asp?cid=161&nid=2138

[icehog3]

an attack of a maniacal gun waving thug-cop...

running up waving a gun and grabbing the bike which he had no right to do...

waving a gun in his face yelling at him to get off the bike

did it catch the cop acting like a wild man? Yep

I've already been in one showdown with a bunch of gun-waving cop-thugs,

all these f'ing cops have Wyatt Earp complexes these days and don't feel they have to obey the laws they're sworn to protect

violation of his civil rights

the cops there have acted like the jack-booted thugs they are...

I must have watched a different video than you watched, Marc. :r

i think too many cops head swells up when they get a badge and gun.

How are you NOT stereotyping? :r That is akin to me saying "I think too many truckers become amphetamine junkies and serial killers".

[neoflex]

For anyone wondering, here is the vid with audio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjjF55M8JQ&feature=player_embedded and the cop clearly does not announce he is a cop until much later after his firearm is drawn. I try not to ride too crazy although on an empty country road I may speed a bit and be a bit of a hooligan but would never attempt this on a freeway or crowded street or a street with any other traffic but had this been me after watching the vid with audio, I prob would have done my best to haul ass out of there as I would have thought I was either being robbed or this guy was a road raged cager. I dunno, I'm not a cop and I respect the job they have to do but this guy should have clearly announced who he was as he exited the car. The fact that he didn't makes me want to think he let his emotions get the better of him. Thank god it didn't play out this way but what if the biker was a carrying a firearm with a CCW and he pulled his sidearm in defense not knowing who this guy was, it could have been an even uglier scene although even if this were the case I would probably try and run from a guy with a gun rather than pull a firearm as he would have been at a major disadvantage but what if? Not trying to say the guy on the bike was not being a douche but I think this could have been handled a little more professionally and the raid just added insult to injury.

[Neuromancer]

I must have watched a different video than you watched, Marc. :r


Video or no video, I've already been on the barrel end of a cops gun and I was unarmed and pretty defenseless, considering I'm 63 and walk with a cane...they have a Wyat Earp complex...the cop had no business even pulling his gun as he did for traffic stop even if the rider was going like a bat out of hell...pull out a ticket book fine, and as far as pulling out the badge verses gun concept, he was after a guy on a crotch rocket...there was no indication from anything that the cop needed to have his gun out even for one second and that makes him wrong...and compounding the situation by raiding the guy's house is double wrong...I hope he gets a good attorney and sues their asses off...

[icehog3]

They all have a Wyatt Earp complex? Guess I better go see a psychotherapist.

So if he had pulled out his ticket book, and the cyclist had pulled out a gun, I would be attending yet another cop's funeral.

I've been on the barrel end of guns too, and I unholster my weapon when dealing with the unknown often. I don't point it or put my finger on the trigger unless it looks like a deadly force situation. The cop in the video didn't point his either, it appeared to me that as soon as he realized he wasn't in danger he reholstered.

I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with cops, Marc. No need to generalize though. I have known cops who were killed by people who were older than age 63, and I have known cops that were killed by people who were physically handicapped. I will continue to unholster my weapon in situations similar to this, so that my Dad doesn't have to attend a cop's funeral.

[1badhog07]

I must have watched a different video than you watched, Marc. :r



How are you NOT stereotyping? :r That is akin to me saying "I think too many truckers become amphetamine junkies and serial killers".

That is because some truckers are,speed junkies and etc,well tom just leave it that.we can go on back and forth about this..:xxx

[Neuromancer]

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

[68TriShield]

I disagree Marc.

[jitzy]

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

[SeanGAR]

Cops are shot and killed at routine traffic stops all the time. This was a stop of somebody not just breaking a traffic law, but endangering the lives of others around them. The moron on the bike has already proven that he does not care about other people; the officer here did the smart thing, pull your weapon, have it at ready, and holster it when the situation is under control.

The punk on the motorcycle needs a good beating in my opinion.

[replicant_argent]

Just a side note on the "if the douchebag on the bike had been a CCW holder" front.

CCW holders, are, in overwhelming statistical fact, about 10 times less likely to commit ANY kind of crime compared to the general population. A little tidbit that stuck in my brain during my own instruction.

The guy on the bike was a giant flapping douchenozzle for stunting in traffic. The cop should have been screaming "POLICE, GET OFF THE BIKE AND ON THE GROUND" with a badge in one hand AND his gun in the other at the stop, IMO. (Same thing with some dipstick in a car zigzagging in and out of traffic at triple digits, we can't have double standards, now can we?) Backup in a squad was obviously on its way, seconds difference at the stop. That would have been a good situation.
In this world, with the explosion of cheap cameras, 99% of phones, and vid recorders you can strap on just about anything, if you are out your front door, you are in the public eye, all privacy goes sideways. Ham handed warrants, detention, and harassment over this is deplorable.
I do agree with Sean, that guy should be beaten by a group of his peers for his asshattery. They are the ones paying the exorbitant insurance rates by class of bike as a result of his, and actions like his, directly or indirectly.
BTW, I feel the same about guys that ride without helmets and then bust open their skulls. ;)
Let me go get my fireproof suit.

[stevieray]

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

Perhaps the Trooper saw the motorcycle as a lethal weapon. Watch any traffic stop and you will see an officer walk up to a pulled over vehicle with his/her hand on their holstered sidearm until they deem the situation safe. In this situation there wasn't time for that with the officer walking up face to face with the perp. :2

[neoflex]

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything. Supposedly the cops report said when he exited his vehicle the biker revved the bike as if he were going to run. If you catch the version I posted with audio, that is clearly BS and there was also no mention of the weapon being drawn in the report which I don't know if that is required or not so it may be a moot point.
Yes, if this guy didn't ride like a jackass he wouldn't have been pulled over but who here hasn't done something stupid without thinking and had it happen at the most inopportune time. I know last summer I was on a country back road with no cars and at an intersection as I made a right I got on it a little too hard and the front wheel came up off the ground about two feet for a short distance and there happened to be a cop coming the opposite direction a little distance away and I am sure he saw the headlight go up and back down.
Of course he banged a U-turn and pulled me over which he should have. I was calm and polite using sir and told him that I honestly didn't mean for the front wheel to come up as I knew that was why he pulled me. I told him I deserved a ticket but it was an honest mistake. He was cool about the whole thing ran my license and came back and told me he wasn't going to ticket me and just told me to be more careful and to not ride like an idiot. He was probably also surprised to see a 30+ year old on the bike and not some snot nosed teen but he didn't come out of his car gun drawn and I don't think he needed to nor did the cop in the video. Prob would have been more effective if he came out of the car with badge in hand rather than his weapon. Again, I am not a cop so I may be totally out of line but the guy definitely was not running. If he were the cop wouldn't have a snow balls chance in hell of catching him on that bike on the Interstate, and if he were I doubt he would have kept with the flow of traffic the majority of the video and even stop at the red light behind a line of cars. Not that I ever recommend it as a traffic violation easily becomes a felony but if a bike wants to outrun a car, I would say 95% of the time he is getting away. So the assessment that this guy was running is wrong. I think there are a lot of holes in the story on both sides and both sides are guilty of being wrong and raiding the guys house was clearly questionable at best.
These GoPro helmet cams are becoming very very popular and I have seen other traffic stops taped in videos before and the outcomes were never like this one or even resulted in a warrant and a house being raided. Just go to Youtube and do a search for GoPro and you'll come up with pages of videos. Most of the traffic stops that have been taped are pretty standard even when the bikers were caught being jackasses. I dunno I think both parties on this one need to reflect on their actions and make changes in the future.

[neoflex]

Probably should have played out more like this http://www.youtube.com/user/SuperMotoVideo#p/u/16/FK6_iAVcfIY

[St. Lou Stu]

No one here could have been seriously injured by what happened in this video.
The people in the video could have been. If it takes pulling a weapon to prevent injury or death (to anyone) then DO IT.

The only swollen headed douchebag I saw was the guy on the bike.

At the end of the day everyone went home.

I imagine that the officer in the video will make it home many more days than someone who second guesses pulling his sidearm.

[replicant_argent]

btw.. just watched the short clip with audio, and quite frankly, I didn't see a "glimpse" worth anything of a badge on his hip, certainly not displayed for positive ID. My eyes go towards GUN and POSSIBLE CRAZY guy, unless he shows me a badge right in my face. Let's face it, though, put yourself in Stupids boots for a minute. You just got done stunting like an asshat on the freeway for a while, and someone pulls in front of you with a gun off the exit, and you may have glimpsed a cherried patrol or trooper on it's way.... Chances are DimBulb knew it was a cop, and that he was just a naughty dipshit guilty squid, and the chances of a civvie pulling a weapon on him were slim.

[mmblz]

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster?

He was going 140 and doing a wheelie. Clearly he is not sane. Since he is not sane, who knows what he will do when pulled over.

I think the initial stop was not unreasonable. The punk got off easy. After posting the video, what ensued was unusual - but if it gets this asshole off the street, I don't really care.

[pnoon]

He was going 140 and doing a wheelie. Clearly he is not sane. Since he is not sane, who knows what he will do when pulled over.

I think the initial stop was not unreasonable. The punk got off easy. After posting the video, what ensued was unusual - but if it gets this asshole off the street, I don't really care.

:tpd:

This jackhole endangers the safety and lives of dozens of people but cries foul when it's his own ass that's threatened. Anybody see the irony here?

[mithrilG60]

I guess the crazy cops just don't see that much value in pulling over someone who mostly obeys the traffic laws.:rolleyes:

Bingo! A fact conveniently lost on, or ignored by, the vast majority bikers and drivers that like to whine and rant on about how much they're targeted by the police who have all developed God/"Wyatt Earp" complexes because they have a badge and gun.

[jitzy]

There is no way this guy didn't know that the guy was a cop there was a marked car there also. This guy on the bike was ****ing around and put himself, the off duty cop and the on duty cops life's in danger not to mention all the people he did pass while pulling this stunt. The biggest thing is all of you guys that were pulled over and ****ed with KNOW 100% that your not a threat to the police but the police officer has ZERO of knowing your not. To many people come up with the nonsense of I was no threat and yes you may be no threat but how in the world is the cop supposed to know that. We don't all have that TV sense of knowing all. I handcuff people who are possible threats all the time and I tell them this is for YOUR safety as well as mine and when the situation ends NO ONE GETS HURT. Sometimes someones ego may me hurt but guess what you get to go home to your family and so do I. As deadly as a firearm may be it's certainly saved more life's than it's taken.

[SeanGAR]

Bingo! A fact conveniently lost on, or ignored by, the vast majority bikers and drivers that like to whine and rant on about how much they're targeted by the police who have all developed God/"Wyatt Earp" complexes because they have a badge and gun.

I rode a motorcycle for 20 years, and for 6 as my only motorized transportation.

I was pulled over only once by a cop on my bike, for running a red light, which I did: he gave me a warning (it was yellow just before I entered the intersection).

So in my experience if you don't drive like a maniac on a motorcycle, the cops leave you alone.

[King James]

First off, not being an officer or having any of the knowledge or training involved in being/becoming one.... I won't pretend to know or make opinions on when an officer feels it is a necessary enough threat to pull out their gun. There are obvious situations when it is or is not necessary, but I don't think this falls into that category and is obviously one of the officer's discression. In the case of plain clothed officer I do personally think he should have been more vocal about making the biker aware he was an officer, but do not think he was out of line for drawing his gun (and not pointing it at the guy) especially since he was going 140+ on the freeway and then started to back away.

[mithrilG60]

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything.

Easy for you to say that now having had the benefit of seeing the sections of the video the motorcyclist wants the world to see. Not so easy for that officer to determine in real time considering this guy came into his line of sight stunting at high speed on a crowded public highway and that's all he had on which to base his decision to pursue and pull over.

Just because you obey the speed limit 9 times out of 10 doesn't mean you shouldn't get a ticket if on that 10th time you happen to be unlucky enough to speed through a radar trap or whip past an unmarked cruiser.

The warrants after the fact were well over the top IMHO and should be dealt with by the appropriate means. The rest of it was 100% on the biker and he should be thankful that's all that happened to him, specifically he should be grateful that it actually was a police officer who stepped out of that car and not some road raging crazy.

[1badhog07]

Cant we all just get along......sarcasism

[jitzy]

Cant we all just get along......sarcasism

Sarcastic or not its true there's really nothing any of us are gonna do to change the others minds. Grab a smoke now and enjoy the day everyone.

[icehog3]

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

Remember that we have the benefit of knowing the context of the motorcyclist's actions while watching the video. The cop, on the other hand, likely does not know why the cyclist is going 140+ MPH. Could he have just committed a forcible felony, (i.e., robbed a bank, killed his ex-wife, etc)? The cop doesn't know. Could he be willing to kill to avoid being caught if he did just commit a crime? The cop doesn't know. We do know because we have the luxury of seeing the video from a hot-dog cycling website...the cop did not have that luxury.

In this situation, I would have had my sidearm unholstered and "at the ready" until I felt the danger of the unknown had passed. It seems to me that is exactly what this cop did. Should he have yelled "police" as he approached? Absolutely, but fear and adrenaline sometimes make people act with a "survival" instinct first.

And without the benefit of knowing the context of the motorcyclist's actions, as we do after the fact, I completely disagree with the idea that this cop should have "known" for a fact that his guy wasn't running from something.

[Resipsa]

Bingo! A fact conveniently lost on, or ignored by, the vast majority bikers and drivers that like to whine and rant on about how much they're targeted by the police who have all developed God/"Wyatt Earp" complexes because they have a badge and gun.



I was pulled over only once by a cop on my bike, for running a red light, which I did: he gave me a warning (it was yellow just before I entered the intersection).

So in my experience if you don't drive like a maniac on a motorcycle, the cops leave you alone.


Amazing how many people have had this same experience.

Fifteen years of riding, I got pulled over two summers back for my first and only time.

Believe it or not, I had forgotten to put my helmet on and had only ridden a 100 yards or so when I passed a trooper going the other way. The rest is history, :r

[CasaDooley]

My thoughts;
Cop-1
Bad guy-0
Good guys generally don't have a problem with the police and are glad they are around, bad guys think cops suck. Cops have a tough job and I for one don't want to read about how another one was killed while trying to be more "kind and gentle" as per the agenda of the PC public.
My opinions for my statement are formed due to the following:
I,m ex military and served duty as a SP liaison with the San Diego PD and Sheriffs Dept.
My best friend is ex Alabama & California Sheriff and a lot of my friends are LEO's.
I'm a biker, started riding at the age of 22.
Me, I'm glad the cops are out there on the beat, I sleep better at night. Thanks guys:tu

[aich75013]

In this situation, I would have had my sidearm unholstered and "at the ready" until I felt the danger of the unknown had passed. It seems to me that is exactly what this cop did. Should he have yelled "police" as he approached? Absolutely, but fear and adrenaline sometimes make people act with a "survival" instinct first.


While I agree and can definately understand your point, I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.
(I don't ride a bike because I'm afraid the ability to go that fast might have an influence on the way I drive.)

[icehog3]

While I agree and can definately understand your point, I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.
(I don't ride a bike because I'm afraid the ability to go that fast might have an influence on the way I drive.)

I agree Adrian, that he should have identified himself sooner, though I also understand that all this happens in a fraction of a second, rather than the leisurely pace of Monday morning quarterbacking.

[cobra03]

This all boils down to the fact that the knuckle head was driving like an azz. No one made him drive like that. It was a choice he made and he paid the price.This would not have been an issue if he was obeying the law.I have no sympathy for him . He's lucky they didnt have to scape him up off the pavement after he wrecked. :2

[RGD.]

Not targeting you Tom - just a convenient quote:

I agree Adrian, that he should have identified himself sooner, though I also understand that all this happens in a fraction of a second, rather than the leisurely pace of Monday morning quarterbacking.


For the people saying he should have identified himself sooner - jeez, he does that in 4 seconds according to the timer on the video.

The suspect is doing something he does not want him to do: backing up in a running bike. He gives a command three times followed by "State Police". Seems pretty fast to me.

Also if you look at the long version of the video - at 3 minutes in the biker turns and looks behind him. He knew damn good and well the State Troopers were there. I'm in Maryland frequently and I haven't seen an unmarked State car that didn't have dash and/or grill lights in it yet.
Also the trooper never brought his gun up to bear - and he put it away as soon as the bike was turned off.

People can argue this all day but it's still gonna end up State Trooper - 1, Idiot Biker - 0.



Ron

[Neuromancer]

I disagree Marc.

There's no way I can say that my experiences as a firefighter are anything close to your experiences as a LEO...we were both doing something for the public good, and in both of our experiences we put our life on the line for civilians, however when we ran into a burning building we knew (for the most part) what we could expect, and I guess every situation for a LEO leaves you little time to figure out what's going down with no pre-knowledge whatsoever, so I agree with your right to disagree, Tom...:tu

[yourchoice]

My thoughts;
Cop-1
Bad guy-0

People can argue this all day but it's still gonna end up State Trooper - 1, Idiot Biker - 0.


:tpd:'s

Other posts with this POV already said everything else I would say.

[68TriShield]

There's no way I can say that my experiences as a firefighter are anything close to your experiences as a LEO...we were both doing something for the public good, and in both of our experiences we put our life on the line for civilians, however when we ran into a burning building we knew (for the most part) what we could expect, and I guess every situation for a LEO leaves you little time to figure out what's going down with no pre-knowledge whatsoever, so I agree with your right to disagree, Tom...:tu

err,I'm not Tom. I like Tom though :D

[Neuromancer]

err,I'm not Tom. I like Tom though :D

Oops...sorry, Dave...mixed up your avatars...I'll still agree with your right to disagree, no matter what your name is...:D

[icehog3]

Best part of this thread has been everyone's ability to agree to disagree while still being civil to each other....as it should be. :)

[SinPena!]

Okay, he took out his gun pointed at possible suspect. Waited for Marked car to run a make on person and motorcycle. Gets ticket for doing something wrong in the first place!! Motorcycle boy whines, puts up that tape and the fireworks begin.....end of story. I have been riding for a long while, just dont do nothing stupid and abide by the laws! Not that hard! If you do, take your lumps.................

[weak_link]

If you are going to light it up on public land, don't be surprised when LEO's don't take kindly to your actions.

I'm moderator on a large San Francisco Bay Area forum and we talked about this with roughly the same results. Virtually everyone agreed the guy was riding like a douchenozzle and many thought the LEO overreacted. Imho, he acted appropriately considering the types of folks they encounter on a regular basis.

One of the things our forum really tries to encourage is track days. Go get some real skills and use them in a safe and fun environment. We have several nice tracks for motos in California and it makes it a lot easier to get out there when there are so many great choices.

Want to go fast and wick it up? Go to the track.

http://ericloranger.com/IMG_8546-400.jpg
http://ericloranger.com/IMG_8551-400.jpg
http://ericloranger.com/IMG_8554-400.jpg
http://ericloranger.com/IMG_8558-400.jpg
http://ericloranger.com/IMG_8564-400.jpg

Who doesn't love getting dirty once in a while?

[St. Lou Stu]

Okay, he took out his gun pointed at possible suspect:confused:. Waited for Marked car to run a make on person and motorcycle.:confused: Gets ticket for doing something wrong in the first place!! Motorcycle boy whines, puts up that tape and the fireworks begin.....end of story. I have been riding for a long while, just dont do nothing stupid and abide by the laws! Not that hard! If you do, take your lumps.................


No, no, no.....

We're talking about this video... http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/04/this-is-why-cops-and-bikers-do.html

[Starscream]

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out.

Only thing I saw wrong was him not identifying himself. But with the marked car directly behind the rider, it's common sense to know who the guy in front of him was.

[yourchoice]

common sense ...

There's a concept! :r Since he was going 140 and doing wheelies on the highway, it seems apparent it's something he was lacking.

[1badhog07]

Best part of this thread has been everyone's ability to agree to disagree while still being civil to each other....as it should be. :)

Thats right brother,i still like ya:D

[RGD.]

. . . I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.. . .

And I can tell you that even when they do identify themselves it still makes you want to wet your panties. About 20 years ago I was doing some property management work over in Arlington. Was in the house with two of my guys for about 15 minutes. Went to go back out to my van, opened the front door and was greeted by two service revolvers pointed straight at me from Arlington's finest. Seems someone forget to turn off the security system and failed to mention to me that the home had one.

Ron