Cigar smoking and Life Insurance premiums.

[brigey57]

I recently applied for life insurance and was struck during the agents questionnaire "Do you smoke?" Not if you smoke what type of product do you use, or how often do you smoke, but do you smoke?

I asked the agent if smoking an occasional cigar qualifies as "smoking?"

The response from the agent was "yes" and "do you smoke them frequently" and then "when was the last time you smoked?"

They apparently take a blood sample and determine from the reading the level of nicotine in your blood.

Have any of the brothers recently applied for Life insurance and what was the results? Were you granted insurance at a reasonable cost or did they jack up the premiums just for you? Did you ultimately buy the insurance from that agent/company or did you purchase it with or through someone else? :td

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Im young at 22 yrs old, I went with a 30 year life insurance policy and they too asked me. At the time I was using dip. They took blood at my home and sent it to the lab. I ended up with the same pricing as the original healthy adult male estimate my agent gave me.

Luck? Maybe so, but i have heard they do jack it up because your more at risk, so to say, than a healthy non-smoking male.

[kydsid]

A staged question deserves a staged answer. And Because I feel that my occasional cigar is not smoking and therefore can honestly answer when asked, 'Do you smoke?', No. And if I haven't had a cigar in a week what are they going to find in my blood? :tu

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Nicotine doenst last long, maybe 1-2 days. Now the by product Cotinine can last for 7-14 days, depending on your smoking habits.

http://www.fbr.org/publications/pamphlets/cotinine.html

This site say ten day, but Id say two weeks to be conservative.. Also keep in mind if you die because of a smoking related death, the insurance company can deny or alter the final end dollar amount they will pay out. This is only if you checked NON-smoker on the application.

[tobii3]

Also keep in mind if you die because of a smoking related death

I always laugh at this scenario.

Well, Mrs Smith, we can't pay your Life Insurance settlement because your husband was smoking a cigar when he was struck by lightning on the golf course.....

:r

[MrOneEyedBoh]

No, haha like lung cancer, esophageal etc. Keep in mind they have to directly relate it to smoking.

[wayner123]

I could have went with another insurance agency. ( I hear prudential doesn't consider cigars to be "smoking"), but in the end I went with the company I was more comfortable with. It almost doubled my premiums but IMO it is worth it to keep smoking cigars and to have the added relief.

However, on most plans you aren't required to tell them when you start a new hobby, or smoking etc. And most have a period that after you have been enrolled for XX amount of time, they can't deny coverage for any reason. (mine was 2 years). So unless the agency is coming to test you every year or so, which is VERY rare, you "could" be safe. But is it worth it for your family's sake?

[CigarNut]

A staged question deserves a staged answer. And Because I feel that my occasional cigar is not smoking and therefore can honestly answer when asked, 'Do you smoke?', No. And if I haven't had a cigar in a week what are they going to find in my blood? :tuIf they can find proof that you did smoke cigars when you signed up for the insurance then they can get out of paying out the insurance regardless of how you died because you "lied" on your application. This is from a friend of mine who sells insurance.

It's much safer (in terms of Life Insurnance) to say "yes" to the smoking question.

[Blueface]

I think there are a number of prior threads on this subject.

I too listed myself as a moker.
I had been to a massive herf in Chicago and then smoked more that week, prior to bloodwork.
I must have smoked 15 cigars just up to two days before the test.

Result:
My bloodwork came back with as minimal insignificant findings as that of my wife and daughter, neither of which smoke and are seldom if ever exposed to my smoke. Additionally, it was the same result as my son who smokes quite less than I do.

So............agent voluntarily made changes and listed me as non smoker, in spite of plea to leave it as is as I did not want to lie in an insurance application. I made him sign a paper saying I insisted he list me as a smoker and it was his choice not to so I could cover myself if ever an issue.

Just like my case, I have heard many similar ones with cigar smokers. Cigarettes? Totally different ballgame.

[icehog3]

I too listed myself as a moker.


Stupid sexy mokers! :D

[ade06]

I recently purchased life insurance and stated that I smoke cigars occasionally. It did raise my rate, but not by much. I'm glad I stated it on my application, because when the insurance policy pulled my medical records, my last Dr. noted that I occasionally smoke cigars. Fyi, I passed the blook test.

[brigey57]

I did disclose the information to the agent with words like in an effort of full disclosure, I do on occasion smoke cigars. So there is no I didn't disclose the information. Fortunately it is coming off of the Winter. :xxx

If they can find proof that you did smoke cigars when you signed up for the insurance then they can get out of paying out the insurance regardless of how you died because you "lied" on your application. This is from a friend of mine who sells insurance.

It's much safer (in terms of Life Insurnance) to say "yes" to the smoking question.

[BigCat]

I did disclose the information to the agent with words like in an effort of full disclosure, I do on occasion smoke cigars. So there is no I didn't disclose the information. Fortunately it is coming off of the Winter. :xxx

Most of the time the agents are considered to be independent agents, meaning that they are working for you, not the insurance company, when they submit your application. That means that the insurance company will tell you that they don't care what you told the agent - it only matters what is on the application. If your agent screws up, you can always sue him for negligence, but it won't be grounds to get benefits that you told the agent something and he decided not to include it on the application. Just wanted to throw that out there...

[brigey57]

Well in that case it won't much matter cause to collect you need to be dead. :sleep:

Most of the time the agents are considered to be independent agents, meaning that they are working for you, not the insurance company, when they submit your application. That means that the insurance company will tell you that they don't care what you told the agent - it only matters what is on the application. If your agent screws up, you can always sue him for negligence, but it won't be grounds to get benefits that you told the agent something and he decided not to include it on the application. Just wanted to throw that out there...

I did disclose the information to the agent with words like in an effort of full disclosure, I do on occasion smoke cigars. So there is no I didn't disclose the information. Fortunately it is coming off of the Winter. :xxx

[BigCat]

Well in that case it won't much matter cause to collect you need to be dead. :sleep:

Presumably the insurance is purchased to protect your loved ones who aren't dead - the company will deny their claim on the policy and and then they'll have to try to sue the agent.

[Neuromancer]

From what I understand, your blood test will come back clean if you abstain from smoking a cigar or pipe for two weeks before the test...

[brigey57]

You do know that I understand that and my response was said sarcastically or why else would I look to buy Life insurance in the first place? Thank you for clarifying your point...;s

I did disclose the information to the agent with words like in an effort of full disclosure, I do on occasion smoke cigars. So there is no I didn't disclose the information. Fortunately it is coming off of the Winter. :xxx

Most of the time the agents are considered to be independent agents, meaning that they are working for you, not the insurance company, when they submit your application. That means that the insurance company will tell you that they don't care what you told the agent - it only matters what is on the application. If your agent screws up, you can always sue him for negligence, but it won't be grounds to get benefits that you told the agent something and he decided not to include it on the application. Just wanted to throw that out there...

Well in that case it won't much matter cause to collect you need to be dead. :sleep:

Presumably the insurance is purchased to protect your loved ones who aren't dead - the company will deny their claim on the policy and and then they'll have to try to sue the agent.

[Don Fernando]

I recently applied for life insurance and was struck during the agents questionnaire "Do you smoke?" Not if you smoke what type of product do you use, or how often do you smoke, but do you smoke?

It's not just with life insurance. I had surgery done in december and one of the questions with anestetics was "do you smoke?" and not "are you a tobacco user?" which are two completely different things in my book.

[SoCalSmoker]

Here is a previous thread covering this subject.
I posted a link to a site the has great info in post #24
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24415&highlight=insurance+cigars

[BigCat]

You do know that I understand that and my response was said sarcastically or why else would I look to buy Life insurance in the first place? Thank you for clarifying your point...;s

It wasn't clear to me that you were being sarcastic. It's one of the weaknesses of the written word at times. I was merely trying to shed light on an apparently overlooked point.

[McSmokey]

Got Life Insurance Two Weeks ago Wife was doing the paperwork with the Agent when asked if I smoke she told them cigars about once a week. I didn't have to go for bloodwork and actually wound up with a cheaper rate than my wife... Go figure

[Ahbroody]

Going to go through this crap in the next week or two I just found out from my wife.
She is a teacher and we ate using her school districts insurance provider. Will not smoke until after the agent comes out. Will state I smoke one cigar a week and see what happens.

[jkim05]

It depends on how the company's applications are worded, what the agent chooses to disclose to the underwriter (which technically speaking is supposed to be everything) and the size of the policy. Policies above a certain size will require a blood test. The general suggestion is to quit a month prior to the bloodtest, but for the company I used to work for, I you told me you smoked cigars once a week, I would have to decide whether I wanted to let the insurance company know, but legally I was supposed to. If the client neglected to inform me, the worst thing that could happen is after the blood test they come back with a smoker rate.

[mosesbotbol]

I fret having to get life insurance. Any companies that are better for cigar smokers?

[wayner123]

I fret having to get life insurance. Any companies that are better for cigar smokers?

Prudential allows cigars in large quantity and still considers it non smoker.

[darkleeroy]

I'm not sure where I heard it (might be the interview with my own life insurance I had) but some life insurance companies consider people who smoke more than 2 cigars a year as smokers, so you should ask your own company beforehand.

Ultimately this is something you get to ensure the well-being of your those remaining loved ones, you kinda don't wanna screw it up. The goal of an insurance company is to come up with a way to deny your claim.

[Ahbroody]

I told my wife I will be disclosing my cigar smoking. For both my own peace of mind and also incase something occurs. My policy is only 100k through her work because it was a cheap add on to her policy $9.00 more for 100 or 150k policy for me. I will likely get a prudential policy in the near future.

[JohnE1000]

If you lie, they will refuse your claims, then what is the insurance good for?

[Blueface]

If you lie, they will refuse your claims, then what is the insurance good for?

Well, applications are contracts. You agree to certain terms as does the company. Misrepresenting information not only yields a claim possibly not being paid but also may yield what they call void ab initio. This means your policy is void and never existed.

Now, back to the cigar thing, what if you are not a cigar smoker but later become one and the company doesn't f/u with you as the years pass to see if factors have changed? How on Earth will they be able to prove you intended to defraud on the application by proving you were actually a smoker at that time? Just hope they too are not on CA.:r (hint.................things that make you go hmmmm).

However, I won't advocate that. I am the guy that approves those voids when people lie on applications. Not a nice thing when that happens.

[Ahbroody]

This is a very valid point. Insurance companies dont follow up. More I have been able to find nothing regarding if you start smoking cigars later in life. They will not deny based on that and it is not on you to tell them you have begun smoking. The policy is based on the terms at time of signing. Given how bad insurance companies have and continue to screw people sorry if I lack compassion for them. That said I will likely disclose casual cigar use. I worked as an insurance adjuster for over 2 years. The primary focus on all claims was tryimg to see if coverage could be denied. Insurance companies love to take money and make profits, but sure dont like giving you any of your money back.

Tomorrow will make 1 week no cigars. Looks like I will make 2 weeks before the physical. That will make for an interesting dilemma.

[St. Lou Stu]

I was straightforward with my insurance application.
I told them I smoked cigars and they quoted me a rate slightly higher than someone who did not smoke would get.
I then took a blood test and it came back with no traces of whatever they associate with smoking.
They then signed me at a 'preferred non-smoking rate'. It is clearly stated and signed by both parties on my application that I said I smoke cigars.

How 'bout them apples? :D

[Ahbroody]

Who was the carrier and how long was it between last cigar and the test

[itzfrank]

Im young at 22 yrs old, I went with a 30 year life insurance policy and they too asked me. At the time I was using dip. They took blood at my home and sent it to the lab. I ended up with the same pricing as the original healthy adult male estimate my agent gave me.

Luck? Maybe so, but i have heard they do jack it up because your more at risk, so to say, than a healthy non-smoking male.

On the other hand, the person you were speaking to is a Sales Rep. Maybe the insurance policy was already marked up so he/she could make some gross and when you had a nitch they did you a "favor" by just giving you the originally quoted estimate. In fact, they were probably still making gross even though you lost points for "smoking".

Most sales people will "try you on" at a higher rate or estimate to see if they have to peel you off the ceiling. Then, depending on your reaction, adjust the price you're given.


I sell cars.:2

[jkim05]

This is a very valid point. Insurance companies dont follow up. More I have been able to find nothing regarding if you start smoking cigars later in life. They will not deny based on that and it is not on you to tell them you have begun smoking. The policy is based on the terms at time of signing. Given how bad insurance companies have and continue to screw people sorry if I lack compassion for them. That said I will likely disclose casual cigar use. I worked as an insurance adjuster for over 2 years. The primary focus on all claims was tryimg to see if coverage could be denied. Insurance companies love to take money and make profits, but sure dont like giving you any of your money back.

Tomorrow will make 1 week no cigars. Looks like I will make 2 weeks before the physical. That will make for an interesting dilemma.

For all life insurance claims, the insurance company has 2 years from the date of the contract to make any adjustments or amendments to the policy, and that is only for information that was discovered later relevant at the time the policy was underwritten. For instance, if a criminal history was discovered subsequent to the original issue of the policy or some relevant medical information was not disclosed originally, but found out later by the insurance company, they could raise your rates or cancel the policy outright depending on the issue. However, any changes that happen subsequent to underwriting is not subject to disclosure. You could have a had any number of health conditions, but if it was not preexisting or did not come up in underwriting, the life insurance company cannot deny a claim on that basis. Once the policy is issued, you can do whatever you want, but you don't want to lie prior to the policy being issued also.

[St. Lou Stu]

Who was the carrier and how long was it between last cigar and the test

Prudential and approx. 3 days

[Ahbroody]

For all life insurance claims, the insurance company has 2 years from the date of the contract to make any adjustments or amendments to the policy, and that is only for information that was discovered later relevant at the time the policy was underwritten. For instance, if a criminal history was discovered subsequent to the original issue of the policy or some relevant medical information was not disclosed originally, but found out later by the insurance company, they could raise your rates or cancel the policy outright depending on the issue. However, any changes that happen subsequent to underwriting is not subject to disclosure. You could have a had any number of health conditions, but if it was not preexisting or did not come up in underwriting, the life insurance company cannot deny a claim on that basis. Once the policy is issued, you can do whatever you want, but you don't want to lie prior to the policy being issued also.

I read all this online. Like I said earlier. I will disclose the occasional cigar. That said being healthy, young, a runner, non drinker, I dont see any health issues arrising from cigars in the next 2 years. It has almost been a week since I had a cigar though and will likely be another week apparently before this dude gets off his arse and gets out here. I am sure I will test negative.

I tell you what the Cohiba Esplendido I got in the MAW will meet its end after this physical.

[klipsch]

HA! I don't have to worry about cigar smoking affecting my life insurance premiums. I can't get life insurance. :D Oh Wait... :sad

[Blueface]

Given how bad insurance companies have and continue to screw people sorry if I lack compassion for them. That said I will likely disclose casual cigar use. I worked as an insurance adjuster for over 2 years. The primary focus on all claims was tryimg to see if coverage could be denied. Insurance companies love to take money and make profits, but sure dont like giving you any of your money back.

Wow.
I have been in the claims business for 28 years, for the largest publicly traded carrier in the country.
24 of the last 28 years as a manager.
I have dealt with Personal Lines, PIP, Auto Adjusting, Home Owner Adjusting, Bodily Injury adjusting, Catastrophe adjusting and now, for the last 12 years or so, Special Investigation Unit, addressing potential fraud.

All that said, not once have I ever, ever been told to handle claims as you state.
Not once have I been told that as a leader, I had to tell someone to handle claims as you have mentioned.
All we have ever been taught and all I have ever taught my employees is that we are here to service the customer, who pays the premiums that pays our salary. However, that doesn't mean what the customer thinks is a fair adjustment and what we perceive as a fair adjustment will always match. Remember, many states can have you lose your license and perhaps even be prosecuted for violation of ethical standards for doing what you mention. In Florida as an example, violation of the state law of Code of Ethics for insurance adjusters can result in my termination, loss of license so I can never work in the industry again and millions in fines to my company.

Not sure what carrier you worked for, but I assure you mine doesn't function with that mindset. Must be why we are so large after all.;)

[Ahbroody]

Well allstates pretty big and they lost a 16 million dollar bad faith claim around two years ago. I am pretty sure with minimal effort I can find articles about what ever company you work for settling lawsuits or getting judgements against them. :r

I will say the following. When the person first calls the first thing done is to see if the policy is enforce or has lapsed for some reason. After this the claim is triaged and the adjuster gets it, amoung determining what happened is asking a series of questions based on the policy and facts to determine exposure and if another person is liable for claim. If not then it needs to be determined if insureds policy will cover and if there was anything done that would exclude coverage. It was not a small insurance company its serves the whole country. Coverage is always checked and the company is always trying to determine if they are not responsible for paying.

Insurance companies are businesses with shareholders. The goal of any business is to make profits. Paying claims and making as much profit as possible are in direct conflict.

You said your piece I have now said my piece . We are definitely not going to agree. I quit because I hated it you love it.

As to ontopic wife was called by her screener today. She is set for next monday. I am still waiting to hear from mine. Hopefully tomorrow. Looks like next week for me also.

[Blueface]

Well allstates pretty big and they lost a 16 million dollar bad faith claim around two years ago. I am pretty sure with minimal effort I can find articles about what ever company you work for settling lawsuits or getting judgements against them. :r

I never inferred perfection in our industry. Sometimes bad faith suits are as result of being set up. Sometimes they come from mistakes. More times than not, they come from mistakes, not intentional acts. Adjusters are human an din some states, you miss one word on a letter and that constitues bad faith. In Florida, attorneys ask for the dumbest of things in letters of representation, buried in an evident way hoping you miss one and hence are in bad faith. It is unjust to paint all insurance companies and adjusters with the same brush.

I will say the following. When the person first calls the first thing done is to see if the policy is enforce or has lapsed for some reason.

It is a business. Of course this should be the first thing they do. If coverage is not in force, would you want to pay for something you did not owe? When you go to the dealer for service, don't they check to see if your car is still under warranty?

After this the claim is triaged and the adjuster gets it, amoung determining what happened is asking a series of questions based on the policy and facts to determine exposure and if another person is liable for claim.

That is called "Subrogation". If someone else is responsible, from whom you can collect from, from which you can reimburse deductibles to insureds or lower overall premium by reducing exposure, wouldn't you do it?

If not then it needs to be determined if insureds policy will cover and if there was anything done that would exclude coverage.

Policies are contracts. They contain coverages, conditions and exclusions. Again, what is so wrong with adhering to the contract and if an exclusion exists, it applies? The good thing is after many years at it, you don't need to look for the exclusions. You know them the minute you see a claim and likewise, you know there is coverage afforded the minute you see a valid claim.

It was not a small insurance company its serves the whole country. Coverage is always checked and the company is always trying to determine if they are not responsible for paying.

And if coverage exists? Which is likely the majority of the times? Again, it is a business. Don't understand why this is a bad thing.

Insurance companies are businesses with shareholders. The goal of any business is to make profits. Paying claims and making as much profit as possible are in direct conflict.

First part correct. The rest not. To correct it, containment of costs is the way to make money, with increased revenue from writing new business, but more importantly, keeping older customers happy. The money is made as result of profitable long term renewals and the profits from investments, not from the claims savings.

You said your piece I have now said my piece . We are definitely not going to agree. I quit because I hated it you love it.

True. Apparently you were asked to act in a way I have never been in 28 years.

As to ontopic wife was called by her screener today. She is set for next monday. I am still waiting to hear from mine. Hopefully tomorrow. Looks like next week for me also.

See in bold.

[ckay]

Two things:

They do not test for nicotine. They test for cotinine.

Also, there are companies that look at cigar smokers more favorably than cigarette smokers. I write policies for many BOTLs and get my underwriters to look more favorably towards us.

A side note...insurance companies are going towards tobacco/non-tobacco classifications.

It is absolutely okay to tell the agent that you enjoy cigars and you should disclose this.

Lastly, if you are young and healthy, DO NOT BUY TERM! TERM NEVER PAYS OUT AS YOU ARE INSURING THE HEALTHIEST PART OF YOUR LIVES!

[Ahbroody]

See in bold.
Like I said we are not going to agree. As much as I want to respond to issues I see in your reply I am going to pass because as I said you love it I hated it.

The one thing I will say is as for your bad faith argument I can post pages of court rulings that have nothing to do with florida and show a really ugly side of the insurance industry as a whole as well as some articles showing insurance companies hiring firms to raise profits. Is really kind of not the focus of this discussion though and would really derail things.


ckay
Hopefully I get a call tomorrow from the rep. I will disclose the occassional cigar dont worry. As I told my wife it is what it is and I dont like the idea of lying to save a buck. Ckay I will PM you about the term issues I was debating this with the wife.

[wayner123]

Two things:

They do not test for nicotine. They test for cotinine.

Also, there are companies that look at cigar smokers more favorably than cigarette smokers. I write policies for many BOTLs and get my underwriters to look more favorably towards us.

A side note...insurance companies are going towards tobacco/non-tobacco classifications.

It is absolutely okay to tell the agent that you enjoy cigars and you should disclose this.

Lastly, if you are young and healthy, DO NOT BUY TERM! TERM NEVER PAYS OUT AS YOU ARE INSURING THE HEALTHIEST PART OF YOUR LIVES!


In reference to the bold above, I don't understand what you mean. The addage has always been buy term and invest the rest.

And just to add, some companies won't sign you as a non smoker even if the test comes back negative. If you tell them you smoke cigars and the test is clean, they still might put you on a smoker's rate.

[ckay]

How many people do you know that will invest the difference? And by investing, I do not mean buying HTF cigars!

I am a wealth manager that also puts life insurance into place when there is an apparent need, so I do see both sides of it. I do see the power in tax deferred nature of growth in an insurance wrapper when all deferral vehicles are already taken advantage of. Couple that with loan provisions that allow for tax free withdrawals regardless of age, and you can easily see how a whole life policy can become a very effective tool in one's overall financial strategies.

[ckay]

If you tell them you smoke cigars and the test is clean, they still might put you on a smoker's rate.
You are correct. That is why any "shopper" of insurance needs to either do their homework or works with somebody who will find them the best company to underwrite their habits, and/or health conditions. Prudential is most favorable for cigar smokers, as stated earlier by somebody else. But again, each company underwrites certain conditions differently, so it is important to do your research prior to signing where indicated on an application.

[whodeeni]

For those of you who live in Ga, I know an agent/financial planner (who's a fellow BOTL)that sells a smokers policy that's rated/treated as non smokers insurance.

I'm probably not explaining this right, but you're not penalized for
being a smoker and you don't lose any benefits. I can send you
his contact info if you like.

[lenrobbins]

Today there are two high quality life insurance companies that will consider cigar smokers (http://www.lifenetinsurance.com/blog-0/bid/55323/Affordable-Life-Insurance-for-Smokers) as "non-smokers" for the purchase of both term and permanent coverage. In addition, several additional carriers will give "non-smoker" rates to very occasional cigar users.
Lenny Robbins
LifeNet Insurance Solutions

[pnoon]

Today there are two high quality life insurance companies that will consider cigar smokers (http://www.lifenetinsurance.com/blog-0/bid/55323/Affordable-Life-Insurance-for-Smokers) as "non-smokers" for the purchase of both term and permanent coverage. In addition, several additional carriers will give "non-smoker" rates to very occasional cigar users.
Lenny Robbins
LifeNet Insurance Solutions
I'm curious. Was it a Google search that brought you here to advertise?
Or are you a cigar smoker/hobbyist like the rest of us?