2010 Formula One Thread

[ir13]

Any F1 Fans out there? Looks like its gonna be one helluva year.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4427610326_3ede2400c9_b.jpg


First Practice Results from Bahrain are interesting.


2010 FORMULA 1 GULF AIR BAHRAIN GRAND PRIX

Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps

1 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes Benz GP Ltd 1:55.409 23

2 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:55.854 0.445 22

3 3 Michael Schumacher Mercedes Benz GP Ltd 1:55.903 0.494 23

4 1 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:56.076 0.667 28

5 5 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:56.459 1.050 18

6 10 Nico Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1:56.501 1.092 26

7 7 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:56.555 1.146 30

8 12 Vitaly Petrov Renault 1:56.750 1.341 26

9 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:57.140 1.731 25

10 22 Pedro de la Rosa BMW Sauber-Ferrari 1:57.255 1.846 24

11 23 Kamui Kobayashi BMW Sauber-Ferrari 1:57.352 1.943 27

12 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:57.361 1.952 29

13 9 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1:57.452 2.043 21

14 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes 1:57.833 2.424 29

15 11 Robert Kubica Renault 1:58.155 2.746 29

16 17 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 1:59.799 4.390 31

17 6 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 2:00.444 5.035 12

18 19 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 2:00.873 5.464 23

19 18 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 2:00.990 5.581 14

20 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 2:02.037 6.628 3

21 25 Lucas di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 2:02.188 6.779 21

22 21 Bruno Senna HRT-Cosworth 2:06.968 11.559 17

23 16 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari No time 1

24 20 Karun Chandhok HRT-Cosworth No time 0

[smitdavi]

Yeah, I think it will be a fun season. The DVR is set to record all this weekends events :D

[jmsremax]

Big fan here! Also a big fan of MotoGp!

[ir13]

Ive gotta hold back from watching qualifying on the DVR.

[smitdavi]

Pretty good race at Bahrain this past weekend. Looks like there is a real solid platoon in the top 8 and they all have a legit chance at winning the championship. I do like all the new rule changes this year. I CAN NOT beleive how fast those pit stops are now. Damn they are quick in and quick out!

[jmsremax]

Pretty good race at Bahrain this past weekend. Looks like there is a real solid platoon in the top 8 and they all have a legit chance at winning the championship. I do like all the new rule changes this year. I CAN NOT beleive how fast those pit stops are now. Damn they are quick in and quick out!

When I visit my folks this weekend I plan to watch a little of this. I don't get SPEED at my place and they do plus they have DVR. Can't wait!

[mithrilG60]

See I think the new rules ruin what should have been the best season in years. While previous years had the predictable strategy's based on fuel weights dictating a 1 or 2 stop race, at least there was real racing in between stops because you didn't have to conserve fuel or nurse your way around on tires that were shot because of the higher car weight in the first half of the race. The fact that lap times stayed the same or lengthened towards the end of the race when they should have gotten faster as the fuel weights dropped to me says this concept simply isn't working. If Vettel hadn't cracked his exhaust it would have been nothing more than a parade from pole to pole :(

I think you'll find this no refueling nonsense disappears after this year because it's going to produce a pretty boring season (unless of course someone runs out of fuel at say Loews, Portier or Rascasse and stuffs the race for the entire field by blocking the track). Hopefully they bring back fueling next year but change the rules so that Whiting and the rest of the marshals know everyone's fuel weights at the end of qualy but none of the teams do. That would eliminate the set strategy where you know exactly what laps your main competitors are going to pit on and force the teams to craft individual strategy's then adapt to each other's plans as the race unfolds.

I miss the mad days of F1 when you could do whatever your budget could suffer and the minds in your factory could come up with to make the car faster instead of this BS legacy of over-regulation and idiocy that Mosley has cursed the sport with. :td Of course F1 is still much much more entertaining than watching a bunch of people turn their steering wheels to the left and drive round in a massed circle for several hours! WRC is the only remaining true form of real racing left to us at this stage :(

[php007]

See I think the new rules ruin what should have been the best season in years. While previous years had the predictable strategy's based on fuel weights dictating a 1 or 2 stop race, at least there was real racing in between stops because you didn't have to conserve fuel or nurse your way around on tires that were shot because of the higher car weight in the first half of the race. The fact that lap times stayed the same or lengthened towards the end of the race when they should have gotten faster as the fuel weights dropped to me says this concept simply isn't working. If Vettel hadn't cracked his exhaust it would have been nothing more than a parade from pole to pole :(

I think you'll find this no refueling nonsense disappears after this year because it's going to produce a pretty boring season (unless of course someone runs out of fuel at say Loews, Portier or Rascasse and stuffs the race for the entire field by blocking the track). Hopefully they bring back fueling next year but change the rules so that Whiting and the rest of the marshals know everyone's fuel weights at the end of qualy but none of the teams do. That would eliminate the set strategy where you know exactly what laps your main competitors are going to pit on and force the teams to craft individual strategy's then adapt to each other's plans as the race unfolds.

I miss the mad days of F1 when you could do whatever your budget could suffer and the minds in your factory could come up with to make the car faster instead of this BS legacy of over-regulation and idiocy that Mosley has cursed the sport with. :td Of course F1 is still much much more entertaining than watching a bunch of people turn their steering wheels to the left and drive round in a massed circle for several hours! WRC is the only remaining true form of real racing left to us at this stage :(

+1, I completly agree. The race was fun to watch but very boring from the previous years.

[ucla695]

See I think the new rules ruin what should have been the best season in years. While previous years had the predictable strategy's based on fuel weights dictating a 1 or 2 stop race, at least there was real racing in between stops because you didn't have to conserve fuel or nurse your way around on tires that were shot because of the higher car weight in the first half of the race. The fact that lap times stayed the same or lengthened towards the end of the race when they should have gotten faster as the fuel weights dropped to me says this concept simply isn't working. If Vettel hadn't cracked his exhaust it would have been nothing more than a parade from pole to pole :(

I think you'll find this no refueling nonsense disappears after this year because it's going to produce a pretty boring season (unless of course someone runs out of fuel at say Loews, Portier or Rascasse and stuffs the race for the entire field by blocking the track). Hopefully they bring back fueling next year but change the rules so that Whiting and the rest of the marshals know everyone's fuel weights at the end of qualy but none of the teams do. That would eliminate the set strategy where you know exactly what laps your main competitors are going to pit on and force the teams to craft individual strategy's then adapt to each other's plans as the race unfolds.

I miss the mad days of F1 when you could do whatever your budget could suffer and the minds in your factory could come up with to make the car faster instead of this BS legacy of over-regulation and idiocy that Mosley has cursed the sport with. :td Of course F1 is still much much more entertaining than watching a bunch of people turn their steering wheels to the left and drive round in a massed circle for several hours! WRC is the only remaining true form of real racing left to us at this stage :(

:tpd: +2

I'm excited that the season just kicked off, but it seems like every year there are more and more ridiculous regulations. I miss the old 10 cylinder days when engines weren’t really rev limited and teams didn’t have silly aero restrictions to abide by. Refueling definitely adds more strategy to the race and pressure on the crews to execute during pitstops.

Anyway, I’m happy that my cable provider finally carries Speed TV in HD!! Here’s to a good season. :chr

[mithrilG60]

Red Bull on Ice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-L-G5uONuA)

Plus Montreal's back on the circuit this year!!! :banger How much fun do you think Beumi had filming this, at least Red Bull still does mad things ;)

[ucla695]

Red Bull on Ice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-L-G5uONuA)


:banger

[smitdavi]

Anyone staying up to watch the race tonight? I've got the DVR set to record. Will watch it first thing tomorrow morning. What's the grid look like for tomorrow?

[kgoings]

When are these races on TV? I want to check it out.

[smitdavi]

When are these races on TV? I want to check it out.

Usually early Sunday morning. IE the race tonight is on at 1 AM I believe on Speed. It is usually rerun mid afternoon too.

[mithrilG60]

Anyone staying up to watch the race tonight? I've got the DVR set to record. Will watch it first thing tomorrow morning. What's the grid look like for tomorrow?

God I love road circuits, soooooo much more exciting to watch than bespoke tracks like Bahrain last week. Melbourne is one of the best. Turns 11 & 12, braking from 186mph to 140mph in a 100m or so then into a pair of 4g flicks then accelerating back up to 186 - 190mph? Yes please!! :banger

Here's the grid, definitely RedBull's year. Hope Weber can pull it off at home!

Tomorrow's grid (http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/825/6710/)

[kgoings]

Sweet, just logged onto Directv.com and set it to record

[smitdavi]

God I love road circuits, soooooo much more exciting to watch than bespoke tracks like Bahrain last week. Melbourne is one of the best. Turns 11 & 12, braking from 186mph to 140mph in a 100m or so then into a pair of 4g flicks then accelerating back up to 186 - 190mph? Yes please!! :banger

Here's the grid, definitely RedBull's year. Hope Weber can pull it off at home!

Tomorrow's grid (http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/825/6710/)

Hopefully no mechanical problems for RedBull this week. It would be cool to see Weber put on a clinic tomorrow.

[mithrilG60]

Indeed. I have the PVR set to record but I'm flying out to visit in-laws first thing tomorrow morning. Somehow I think I'll end up getting impatient and grabbing it off usenet before I fly home Monday night ;)

[smitdavi]

Can't get to sleep....looks like I will be watching this race live.

[mithrilG60]

Wow, AMAZING race with some very very hungry gravel traps!!!!! F1 was definitely back to what is always should be today in Melbourne, let's hope the rest of the season is more like this one and less like Bahrain.

[smitdavi]

Wow, AMAZING race with some very very hungry gravel traps!!!!! F1 was definitely back to what is always should be today in Melbourne, let's hope the rest of the season is more like this one and less like Bahrain.

Yes it was! One of the better races that I've watched lately.

[ir13]

Agreed, that was a great race, if the rest of the season is like this then its going to be great.

[SouthernSmoke]

what an awesome opening set of races! Australia was definitely an exciting race. Glad its back on this continent this year, too!

[smitdavi]

Watching Malaysia right now. Will be exciting if the big boys can make their way through the field.

[kgoings]

Malaysia was my first ever Formula One race to watch, it was AWESOME! I was inspired by Alonso's performance considering the gearbox or what ever was going out, he fought hard and then to have it go in the last 2 or 3 laps :td damn that has got to suck!

[smitdavi]

Good race....wasn't quite as exciting as Australia but a good race none the less. Finally Red Bull Renault was a able to cash in and put the reliability issues to rest. Pretty cool to see three different manufactures win. Shaping up to be a really good season.

[mithrilG60]

Definitely a good race. This one just reinforced that adopted the inverted order start used occasionally in NASCAR would be make for some interesting races as it would forced the fastest cars to have to work their way up from the back of the pack like the McLaren's and Ferrari's did in Malaysia. Not something to do often or in the last third, and never on the classics like Monaco, but one or 2 races a year would mix things up nicely.

[mosesbotbol]

Definitely a good race. This one just reinforced that adopted the inverted order start used occasionally in NASCAR would be make for some interesting races as it would forced the fastest cars to have to work their way up from the back of the pack like the McLaren's and Ferrari's did in Malaysia. Not something to do often or in the last third, and never on the classics like Monaco, but one or 2 races a year would mix things up nicely.

That would only be fair if they awarded points for Qualifying. It was a decent race, but the top 5 was little change, and the top 3 did not change after the 2nd lap.

Malaysia can push the engine to the limit as we saw. Mercedes GP has to do some quick thinking. MSC's rear suspension-transmission issue is a serious issue if a simple curb caused it.

[SouthernSmoke]

glad to see redbull get the reliability issues dealt with. after 3 races, the top 7 drivers are split by a mere 9 points.

[The Poet]

If I had cable or dish TV, and if I could stay awake, I might just catch a race or three. But seeing how I don't, and can't, I guess I'll just have to wait until these drivers graduate to NASCAR. :D

[mosesbotbol]

glad to see redbull get the reliability issues dealt with. after 3 races, the top 7 drivers are split by a mere 9 points.

Red Bull is integral to my speedtv fantasy league. I have Vettel as one of my three drivers and Red Bull as the Constructor.

[mithrilG60]

If I had cable or dish TV, and if I could stay awake, I might just catch a race or three. But seeing how I don't, and can't, I guess I'll just have to wait until these drivers graduate to NASCAR. :D

They'll be there just as soon as, like JP Montoya, they've lost the mental acuity to drive in real racing and can only remember how to turn left ;) :D

That would only be fair if they awarded points for Qualifying. It was a decent race, but the top 5 was little change, and the top 3 did not change after the 2nd lap.

I don't see how it wouldn't be fair if it was a published rule change at the beginning of the season. All teams would be treated equally, and as we saw in the last race (especially with Hamilton), the faster cars are always going to work their way to the front and it makes for more exciting racing to have a lot of passing. The key is to randomize the races which run an inverted order and not to let the teams know until after qualy's completed so no "slow qualy" strategy's develop.

The FIA has been trying for several years to figure out how to make the racing more exciting by creting the opportunity to for passing allowing. Unfortunately passing is always going to be more difficult on open wheel cars that it will in closed cars like NASCAR due to the aero package but this is one of the very very few times when F1 can learn from NASCAR. A faster car and driver skill while still put the top guys to the front while giving the underdog teams a chance to spoil, the excitement would be watching how those battles play out.

I don't actually mind if the leader goes pole to pole or if the top few places don't change around much during a race as long as there's the excitement throughout the pack that there has been in the last couple GP's. What I don't like is when it becomes a parade like it was in Bahrain.

[mosesbotbol]

I don't see how it wouldn't be fair if it was a published rule change at the beginning of the season. All teams would be treated equally, and as we saw in the last race (especially with Hamilton), the faster cars are always going to work their way to the front and it makes for more exciting racing to have a lot of passing. The key is to randomize the races which run an inverted order and not to let the teams know until after qualy's completed so no "slow qualy" strategy's develop.



The FIA has been trying for several years to figure out how to make the racing more exciting by creting the opportunity to for passing allowing

I totally disagree. The fastest car should be awarded with the pole position simple as that. Just run mid pack and you’ll always start mid pack. Talk about boring.

Hamilton and Schumacher pass people because they are the best drivers and when they are against the best drivers in the front, there is not as much passing. Who cares if Schumacher passes Petrov to 15th place.

FIA has succeeded in making at least Qualifying more exciting. The format works great. As for the racing, the effort has been on making F1 less expensive than making the show better. They have failed at making less expensive and drove the manufacturers away. Making the show better is Bernie’s problem, not Max’s.

[mithrilG60]

I totally disagree. The fastest car should be awarded with the pole position simple as that. Just run mid pack and you’ll always start mid pack. Talk about boring.

That is exactly what leads to the parades for which F1 has become all too well know for of late. The race itself is becoming secondary to qualy, might just as well turn it into an individual timed spirit like WRC and give the trophy out at the end of Saturday's session forgetting about Sunday altogether. The point that I'm trying to make is that the drivers and teams wouldn't know before the end of Qualy if it was an inverted race so there'd be no point in trying to go either slow (to grab the inverted pole) or mid-pack.

Hamilton and Schumacher pass people because they are the best drivers and when they are against the best drivers in the front, there is not as much passing. Who cares if Schumacher passes Petrov to 15th place.

If you look at almost every race over the last couple years the coverage is almost NEVER the lead car, it's always in the pack where Schmacher is trying to pass Petrov etc. Why? It's simply not exciting to watch one car rip around a track, even if that car happens to be leading the race. The excitement is in the battles. And don't forget, those are the top 24 drivers in the world on that grid..... they all have the ability to both win on any given day and to spoil the day of a higher ranked driver. Cases in point; Schumacher in almost every race this year, Button vs Kobayashi last year. It was Kobayashi's first start in an F1 car and he managed to prevent Button from passing for how long? That was one of the most exciting battles I've seen in a very long time and it was for what, 14th position?

No, while it would be nice to have every exciting battle occur at the front of the pack the reality is that usually whoever has the right setup that weekend is running his own race well ahead and the real excitement is in the pack. Forcing the fast cars to run their way up through the pack to the front in one or two races per season would make for VERY exciting racing.

FIA has succeeded in making at least Qualifying more exciting. The format works great.

Qualy should NEVER substitute for the race itself, that's completely stupid yet it's what F1 has become in many cases.

As for the racing, the effort has been on making F1 less expensive than making the show better. They have failed at making less expensive and drove the manufacturers away. Making the show better is Bernie’s problem, not Max’s.

I agree that the focus on reducing cost was idiotic, however they've also had a huge focus on trying to increase passing. It's why they dropped from V10's to V8's and why the aero packages have been so heavily reduced. The problem is still finding a way to overcome the dirty air that trails .5 - .75 sec behind these cars and kills the performance of when trying to catch up enough to get into slipstream. Unfortunately I don't think physics will ever allow passing in the same manner as you get in stock car, and FIA needs to realize this and move on. Exploit the strengths of the sport instead of trying to force it into something it's not.

[ir13]

Great Race in Malyasia, its shaping up to be a great season. Boring at times, but for the most part this year has been more interesting than the last couple IMO.

[mosesbotbol]

The point that I'm trying to make is that the drivers and teams wouldn't know before the end of Qualy if it was an inverted race so there'd be no point in trying to go either slow (to grab the inverted pole) or mid-pack.

Why wouldn't running mid-pack be the best game plan. You know where you are starting no matter the decision?



If you look at almost every race over the last couple years the coverage is almost NEVER the lead car, it's always in the pack where Schmacher is trying to pass Petrov etc.

That is not true. The last two seasons, it came down to the last one or two races and plenty of the camera was up front on Hamilton, Massa, Alonso, and Vettel. Only during Schumacher's last couple of years, but that was due to how great the Ferrari was. More was done to take away Schumacher's strength, than anything else. The best driver will still win, as he did.

No, while it would be nice to have every exciting battle occur at the front of the pack the reality is that usually whoever has the right setup that weekend is running his own race well ahead and the real excitement is in the pack. Forcing the fast cars to run their way up through the pack to the front in one or two races per season would make for VERY exciting racing.

Qualy should NEVER substitute for the race itself, that's completely stupid yet it's what F1 has become in many cases.

It's always been a complement never a substitute, but forcing to keep the car in parc ferme has lead to the current format. The race weekend is a good schedule for the fans and TV.



I agree that the focus on reducing cost was idiotic, however they've also had a huge focus on trying to increase passing. It's why they dropped from V10's to V8's and why the aero packages have been so heavily reduced.

The focus has not been on increased passing, just reduced costs. The fans talked about it, bur FIA did little. Elminating side view mirrors, split rear wings, launch control, traction control, two way telemetry are all things that increase passing, yet all they have done is finally added slick tires and one season of KERS. If passing was still a priority, KERS would still be in use. FIA is not interested in more passing or the entertainment aspect of F1, just the rules.

[St. Lou Stu]

Cool video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9V8oAOUMSs

[kgoings]

Not much action on this thread so I thought I would give it a bump.

I am new to F1, and I am really loving it! The first race I ever watched was the second of the season, Australia. I didn't really like the Australia race but I went ahead and gave it a second chance in Malaysia and have been hooked ever since! This last weeks race, Monaco was AWESOME! I wish there was more passing up front but still an exciting event to watch. I want to see one in person now! :r

I am not sure who I like yet, (who to root for) but I am having a good time just watching the races. My daughters and I were rooting for Kubica this weekend cause they liked the yellow car! :r My daughters are kinda hooked too!

Are the G2 races televised?

[mithrilG60]

GP2 is televised in Europe but rarely, if ever, in North America. Some of the races are posted to usenet, and I imagine off torrent as well, so you can download them there if you use it but I've never really tried.

[ir13]

GP2 is televised in Europe but rarely, if ever, in North America. Some of the races are posted to usenet, and I imagine off torrent as well, so you can download them there if you use it but I've never really tried.


Most of the GP2 races are telivised right before the F1 Race pre show starts

[mithrilG60]

Most of the GP2 races are telivised right before the F1 Race pre show starts

Really? Wow, we apparently need your motosport coverage up here :( It's just as well to call Speed NASCAR TV. We get none of the pre-shows, very little WRC or Dakar, just lots and lots of NASCAR :(

[kgoings]

I watched the GP2 and the F1 race yesterday! Great stuff! I am sooo hooked cause of this thread.

F1 was a great race...what in the world was Vettle thinking! Good stuff!

[mosesbotbol]

The Red Bull collison pissed me off like no tomorrow. Weber should have moved aside if Vettel is faster. Vettel is my top driver in my F1 Fantasy league. Boy was I beside myself when that happened.

[mithrilG60]

Why? Why should Weber be required to surrender the racing line when he had full rights to defend his position and hold his line? It the job of the overtaking driver to successfully and safely execute the pass, not vice versa. There was no blue flag, nor was it a case where Vettel been significantly faster for an extended period and was being held up by Weber. That was in fact the first opportunity he'd had to pass at all.

Vettel veered right into Weber's path when there was no need to. It wasn't malicious, I think he just lost track of Weber's car in relation to his own (very easy to do considering the lack of peripheral vision in those cars). Had Vettel simply held his line into the braking zone Weber would have been forced to either back off or run extremely wide into 12 and likely go off the track entirely into 13.

The mistake was Vettel's, pure and simple. It just shows that, no matter how good a driver he is, he's still quite inexperienced in F1 and has a lot of learning left to do yet. I have little doubt that Vettel will be world champion several times over by the time he retires, but right now he costs himself a lot of points through small errors that lead to big conseqences. In this case he cost both himself and his team a significant amount of points.

[kgoings]

I still haven't picked a 'favorite' driver or team..but I am having a great time watching the races. I like to see guys coming from behind and making passes! The the maneuvering is pretty awesome too!

[mosesbotbol]

Why? Why should Weber be required to surrender the racing line when he had full rights to defend his position and hold his line?

He should not be defending his position if a team mate can pass him and obviously that is the case if Vettel is coming from behind him. Team mates should race as if they do not have side view mirrors.

They should put on a show like Hamilton and Button did, but those two are on the same page- racing for McLaren rather than their own race.

[mithrilG60]

He should not be defending his position if a team mate can pass him and obviously that is the case if Vettel is coming from behind him. Team mates should race as if they do not have side view mirrors.

They should put on a show like Hamilton and Button did, but those two are on the same page- racing for McLaren rather than their own race.

I agree that they should have been smarter, but I still see it as Vettel's fault. As the overtaking driver he had the ultimate responsibility to ensure that his overtaking maneuver is safe. There was only a tenth between them and that difference had only existed for 3 or 4 laps so it's not like Vettel was on a completely different pace.

You're right that they should race as if they had no wing mirrors, and really with the amount the drivers can see out of them they effectivlely don't anyways. Part of that means you make bloody sure you're in clear space before you move over into another drivers racing line. Look at the replay's, Weber made absolutely no move at all.... it was Vettel that swerved into him. Vettel was the one who obviously lost spacial awareness of the car he was trying to pass and Vettel was the one that caused the crash. There is no fault that can be attributed to Weber in that situation, it was 100% on Vettel's shoulders.

[mosesbotbol]

I agree that they should have been smarter, but I still see it as Vettel's fault.

There is no fault that can be attributed to Weber in that situation, it was 100% on Vettel's shoulders.

You should be Weber's manager, as Red Bull sees it differently:

Helmut Marko, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz's right-hand man at Red Bull Racing, sided firmly with Sebastian Vettel in the aftermath of the coming together with Mark Webber that eliminated the young German from the Turkish GP.

"Sebastian was ahead already and there was a left-hand corner coming, so he had to go to his line," said the former seventies F1 driver

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22312.html

[mithrilG60]

I also wouldn't take his comment as the official Red Bull line on the incident. Neither Mateschitz or Horner have commented on it other than to say how displeased they were with the incident as a whole and how unnecessary it was. He's the only person I've heard take Vettel's side and quite honestly it's a ludicrous stance. In reality I don't care if that's RedBull's official line, if it is then they're ignoring the simple facts of the incident and they're wrong.

Vettel veered into Weber's line after 1/2 completing a passing maneuver, end of story. That's a driver error and one that's 100% Vettel's fault every single time.

Think about it; we're on the highway and I pass you. Instead of waiting until I'm fully clear and past you I decide to move back into your lane when only half car of my car is ahead of yours. Because of my decision to move over our cars contact causing a crash...... and somehow that's your fault? I'm sorry but that's a stance that's both completely wrong and doesn't make sense with any scenario on either a racing track or public road.

The simple fact is that the overtaking driver has the ultimate responsibility to ensure that he overtakes in a manner that is safe for everyone. If he can't, or doesn't, complete the pass (and being 1/2 a car length ahead is NOT a completed pass) it's not the responsibility of the other driver to let him through. Unless being blue flagged, the driver being overtaken has every right to hold and defend his line which is exactly what Weber did.

[ir13]

I think it was Weber's fault for not allowing enough racing room. But it doesnt matter much now anyways. It is nice to see some inter team rivalries brewing with RB and Mclaren.

[newcigarz]

Whose up for an Austin/F1 herf in 2012?


Sports Briefing | Auto Racing
Texas Will Host F1 Race
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 25, 2010



Formula One racing is coming back to the United States in 2012 with a long-term deal to race in Austin, Tex., on a track built specifically for the event. Officials from Formula One, Austin and Texas said the city would host the U.S. Grand Prix until 2021. The race was dropped after an eight-year run at Indianapolis Motor Speedway from 2000 to 2007. Bernie Ecclestone, Formula One’s president, said the race would mark the first time a course would be built specifically for an F1 race in the United States. Before its run in Indianapolis, Formula One was hosted by Las Vegas, Detroit, Dallas, Phoenix and Long Beach, Calif., on street circuits.



Sorry if this was already discussed.

[mithrilG60]

I think it was Weber's fault for not allowing enough racing room.

How? Vettel pulled out to pass on the inside/dirty line, not Weber. It was Vettel's judgment that there was enough room to pass and Vettel's decision to attempt the pass. It was also Vettel's decision to turn back into Weber's line before he was fully past. Weber made no defensive moves to cut off or block his teammate, he just held his line as he was completely entitled to do. In doing so he made no attempt to block his teammate which is entirely in keeping with the team's edict on giving each other racing room. You can guarantee that Weber would not have accorded the same courtesy to either Hamilton or Button if they'd been trying to pass him there!

Vettel drove into Weber, not the other way around, there's simply no logical way of looking at incident where the fault lies with Weber.

[ir13]

How? Vettel pulled out to pass on the inside/dirty line, not Weber. It was Vettel's judgment that there was enough room to pass and Vettel's decision to attempt the pass. It was also Vettel's decision to turn back into Weber's line before he was fully past. Weber made no defensive moves to cut off or block his teammate, he just held his line as he was completely entitled to do. In doing so he made no attempt to block his teammate which is entirely in keeping with the team's edict on giving each other racing room. You can guarantee that Weber would not have accorded the same courtesy to either Hamilton or Button if they'd been trying to pass him there!

Vettel drove into Weber, not the other way around, there's simply no logical way of looking at incident where the fault lies with Weber.

The bolded statement is false.

Weber would have done the same exact thing if it was a non teammate, he is racing. Vettel said to the bosses he didnt want to say anything on the radio bc of the the rule of team orders in the sporting code, but he was clearly faster than weber.

[mithrilG60]

No, it's actually quite true (unless you meant to bold another part of my comment?).

Weber would have gone fully defensive and attempted to actively block the pass attempt in order to retain his race position if it had been anyone other than a teammate. As it was he followed team orders regarding racing room did not. By simply holding his line he extended the courtesy of giving Vettel as much racing room as Vettel thought there was in the first place. Had Vettel held his line into the braking zone he could have either out braked Weber cutting him off into 12 or forced him wide and ducked underneath him into 13 as Button did on Hamilton. Personally I think Vettel's swerve to the right which brought them into contact was an attempt to force Weber over and thus make him run wide.

You are quite right though in the statement that Weber was racing. More precisely he was racing the driver with whom he was tied for the championship lead. That's exactly why it's ludacrious to expect him to move over and allow Vettel to pass simply because they happen to be on the same team. Vettel made a brave, but ultimately bad, passing decision and followed it up with a driver error by moving into Weber's pre-existing line making the fault for the incident 100% his. End of story.

[mithrilG60]

You should be Weber's manager, as Red Bull sees it differently:

Helmut Marko, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz's right-hand man at Red Bull Racing, sided firmly with Sebastian Vettel in the aftermath of the coming together with Mark Webber that eliminated the young German from the Turkish GP.

"Sebastian was ahead already and there was a left-hand corner coming, so he had to go to his line," said the former seventies F1 driver

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22312.html

http://www.racefanstv.com/news/open-wheel/formula-one/8858/

Marko's comments were based on incomplete evidence and without seeing full replays and team info. RedBull's Horner is recanting Marko's blame of Weber and taking the position it was an "unfortunate racing accident that should never have happened between teammates". I'm sure that internally they all have their own opinions on who was at fault but from a team perspective there's no point placing public blame on either driver for an incident that was clearly not intentional or malicious. The kind of blame game Marko started in on does nothing to repair team unity.

[mosesbotbol]

That's exactly why it's ludacrious to expect him to move over and allow Vettel to pass simply because they happen to be on the same team.

Have to disagree on this. That mentality does not serve well for winning the Constructor's which is more important to the team the Driver's Championship. Not only that, Weber had a slower engine map as he was lower on fuel and was told to keep the rev's down. Vettel was clearly faster and Weber was just being a prick.

[mithrilG60]

You're right, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Webber 1st, Vettel 2nd or Vettel 1st, Webber 2nd..... either result gives the same number of points to RedBull insofar as the constructors championship is concerned. The difference is in the drivers championship in which they were tied for the lead. The constructors championship doesn't give any reason for Webber to pull over and give Vettel that pass when he had both track position and the racing line. In point of fact the drivers championship gives him every reason to exert his rights and hold the racing line. Your argument can be applied equally in reverse that ensuring constructors points was reason enough for Vettel to NOT attempt that pass. It's just as wrong when applied to that scenario too.

As I said above, Webber played the team player by not closing the door on Vettel right from the outside. He was more than entitled to hold his line against Vettel just as he would be against any other driver. I might agree with your assessment if there had been any indication that Webber had acted to block or interfere with Vettel's attempt. However, watch the replays there is clearly no hand or wheel movement on Webber's part until Vettel hits him he has to fight to maintain control of his car. F1's not drag racing, the fastest car isn't automatically entitled to the win. Neither Vettel nor anyone else is owed a clear path by any driver on that track. Vettel had another 1 or 2 laps at a 10th faster than Webber before he too had to switch engine maps to conserve fuel, if he couldn't find a way past Webber in those couple laps then tough titty. It's absolutely no different than Alonso getting held up by slower cars in Monaco or what Schumacher has done to Button in a couple races now or the Trulli Trains from last season, if you can't find a way past the car in front of you your car can be seconds per lap faster than anyone else.... you're still not getting that win.

Vettel took himself completely out of the race and cost Weber the win through driver error. In the process he cost the team valuable points in the constructors championship, as well loosing points for both himself and Webber in drivers championship. If anyone's was a prick in this situation it's Vettel, and that's not a fair statement because it obviously was not intentional.

[kgoings]

I am curious. Is Mark Webber one on the 'hated' or not popular drivers?

[ir13]

I am curious. Is Mark Webber one on the 'hated' or not popular drivers?

Not to my knowledge, he is head of the GPDC if i remember correctly.

[kgoings]

Another great race, I liked this one due to all the lead changes and the strategy.

F1 races are great for smoking a Churchill! I dvr the races then when the wife and kidos goto but I use my DirecTV app to stream the races to my laptop outside while I smoke! :banger

[mosesbotbol]

I am curious. Is Mark Webber one on the 'hated' or not popular drivers?

An average driver at best who took 7 years to win his first F1 race. He is a good technical and development driver as he gives good feedback to engineers.

Actually, I am suprised he is still on the grid. I'd put him in the Heidfeld or Wurz level. Good driver to have around, but won't win you a title (unless you have the absolute winning car).

[ucla695]

Whose up for an Austin/F1 herf in 2012?


Sports Briefing | Auto Racing
Texas Will Host F1 Race
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 25, 2010



Formula One racing is coming back to the United States in 2012 with a long-term deal to race in Austin, Tex., on a track built specifically for the event. Officials from Formula One, Austin and Texas said the city would host the U.S. Grand Prix until 2021. The race was dropped after an eight-year run at Indianapolis Motor Speedway from 2000 to 2007. Bernie Ecclestone, Formula One’s president, said the race would mark the first time a course would be built specifically for an F1 race in the United States. Before its run in Indianapolis, Formula One was hosted by Las Vegas, Detroit, Dallas, Phoenix and Long Beach, Calif., on street circuits.



Sorry if this was already discussed.

I can't wait!! :banger

[SouthernSmoke]

Got my pictures edited from Canada, finally! What an awesome race!

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs100.snc4/36374_1257771560707_1122150298_31316629_469359_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs139.snc4/37277_1257771400703_1122150298_31316625_4476660_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs097.snc4/36222_1257771200698_1122150298_31316620_3511426_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs049.ash2/35795_1257771680710_1122150298_31316632_2917700_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs033.snc4/33995_1257772120721_1122150298_31316640_837561_n.j pg

[SouthernSmoke]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs082.ash2/37453_1257771320701_1122150298_31316623_4469114_n. jpg

[kgoings]

Awesome pics! Can't wait till I get to see one in person and snap some pics!

Can't wait! Practice starts tomorrow! I missed me some Formula 1 last week!

[cbsmokin]

Have you guys all seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tQCXE7DDuc&feature=player_embedded

[tuxpuff]

Sweet video...thanks for the link

[tuxpuff]

Patrick...those pictures rock!