And Dell managed to get on my nerves today...

[Silound]

Let me preface by saying I'm VERY satisfied with Dell's products and services. I have used them myself, and I frequently recommend them to certain peoples whom I do IT support for.

Anyway....

Well, my server went out. Specifically it was a Dual-Xeon Precision 670 workstation that was running my Linux kernel, fileserver, SQL server, and a host of other nifty useful things that I need. When I cracked the case, the problem was obvious from the start: bad capacitors (what a surprise! ).

So I called up Dell, knowing that the capacitors issue plagued the Optiplex 260/270/280 models. No dice, they won't service it because that particular recall was only for Optiplex models, mine is a Precision that's out of warranty (by years), and a new mobo will run me almost $400.

So I get to looking online, and it seems I can get a mobo for around 100-150 online. But I got to thinking, well this thing only has 1 Gb of RAM, so maybe I should look into upgrading that as well. I didn't spec this workstation out myself, I bought it as surplus from a friend's company because they bought one too many and the price was right at the time. Had I been the one buying it, I would have put more RAM in it from the getgo.

Bigger no dice. This thing uses Rambus RDRAM, which is stupidly expensive (to the tune of $300 for 2x 256Mb sticks). "Well F me!" I say, "for this cost to make this thing work well again, I would get more bang from my dollar to buy or build a new system using a newer processor and memory (even a modern processor can about double the instructions per second of these older Pentium 4 based Xeons, and that's not counting the faster bus, faster memory, or any other improvements that you can name to computer technology). Oh and in the process, a newer one wouldn't raise the temperature in my office by 5 degrees when under load (freaking NetBurst power sucking garbage).

So I know what I want, I price to build one. About 700 bucks with a case and PSU if I built it via parts. But that was cutting corners and buying a cheap case and PSU. Bad juju there, don't do that. They're noisy and cheap ones tend to fail pretty readily. I like quiet and steady.

So I start looking at some pre-fab models that might fit the bill, refurbished, scratch and dents, overstocks, closeouts, discontinued models, etc etc. Lo and behold I find that an Optiplex 700 series is a perfect fit for my budget and needs. I specced one out, and decided it wasn't what I wanted. It was loaded with too much garbage I didn't need: operating system, software, keyboard, mouse, hard drive, video card....all things I have that I don't need to buy.

No problem says I, let's call Dell and get a price quote for one without that stuff. Nope, Dell says they won't sell one to me the way I want it, they have to include some form of video card (this one didn't have onboard), it has to have a hard drive (cheapest one adds $40 to the system cost for a mere 160Gb), it has to come with some OS even if it's not installed (no option for a free Linux disc there, had to be a Microsoft OS), it has to come with even a cheap keyboard and mouse, everything I wanted off to save me cost and get what I needed.


So at the end of the day, a bunch of wasted time later, here I am seeing if my budget will allow me to drop the better part of $1000 to replace my dang server.

All over some stupid capacitors.


/rant off

[G G]

That sucks.:td Sorry to hear it.

[TheRiddick]

... that was running my Linux kernel, fileserver, SQL server, ...

??? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Footbag]

Could you re-use the Dell case? I don't know what the Xeon bolt pattern it. You should also check the wattage on the power supply. You may be able to re-use that.
I just built an i7 PC and had a lot of fun doing it. That said, it's usually the same price or cheaper to buy it bundled. Although not having to buy Windows will help and you'll have to take that into consideration.

[captain53]

Dell Sux:td

[Rabidsquirrel]

Replace the caps yourself, it's actually quite easy if you have any soldering experience.

[Silound]

Replace the caps yourself, it's actually quite easy if you have any soldering experience.

I have the experience, but getting the caps is a PITA writ large. I tried to find them, only place I found was some bulk distributor whose website was in an Asian font and only sold the stuff in bulk lots as best I could tell.


Could you re-use the Dell case? I don't know what the Xeon bolt pattern it. You should also check the wattage on the power supply. You may be able to re-use that.
I just built an i7 PC and had a lot of fun doing it. That said, it's usually the same price or cheaper to buy it bundled. Although not having to buy Windows will help and you'll have to take that into consideration.

I thought of that, but unfortunately I can't reuse the PSU, and this is a workstation case with a larger supply mounted under the case. Another PITA.




I ended up finding an Optiplex on eBay with an OBO option. I made an offer for just a barebones system, waiting to hear back. Other than that, I may look into other options.


I was running Linux to run an Apache fileserver and MySQL server to host a small time website and forums as well as some programming development and deployment tools I needed for a project.

[DrDubzz]

were these flux capacitors? I hear those are pricey

[JE3146]

What websites were you using to find replacement caps? I may be able to help.

[CasaDooley]

were these flux capacitors? I hear those are pricey

:r

[spectrrr]

For sh!ts n giggles, how do you tell the model Optiplex you have -- I've got one sitting here but not sure how vintage :)

[Volt]

Just for giggles I went to Dell and priced out a replacement sort of in the mode your operating in. $269 and light years ahead of the Optiplex you were using. Keeping with the Linux server mode your operating in, this should work nice and break no banks. You can always spend more if you like.

I had a customer that hit too large shipments with those caps in the 260/270s. I know of at least ~800 MOBOs that got replaced over a 5 year time frame. Wasn't just Dell that got hit with those as well. My home built Azus MOBO had them as well (and burned up). A few other of the major manufactors had issues as well. So goes life when 2 or 3 people are making all the MOBOs in the world.


Operating System Windows Vista® Home Basic SP1, 32-Bit VHB31E

Processors AMD Sempron™ LE-1300 (2.3GHz, 800MHz, 512KB) 546M130 [317-1128]

Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 2 DIMMs 2GB82

Keyboard Dell Consumer Entry USB Keyboard and Mouse EKLOM

Monitors No Monitor

Video Cards Integrated ATI Radeon HD3200 Graphics IV

Hard Drives 320GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™

[T.G]

Well, my server went out. Specifically it was a Dual-Xeon Precision 670 workstation that was running my Linux kernel, fileserver, SQL server, and a host of other nifty useful things that I need. When I cracked the case, the problem was obvious from the start: bad capacitors (what a surprise! ).


$25 for some new electrolytic caps, a good soldering iron and about two hours is all it takes to fix that problem.

[JE3146]

$25 for some new electrolytic caps, a good soldering iron and about two hours is all it takes to fix that problem.

Depending on the size, I doubt even that much.

Though I'd need to know the capacitance, the tolerance(typically 20%), voltage rating and the lead spacing and I could probably find some replacements for him through my sources.

[T.G]

Depending on the size, I doubt even that much.

Though I'd need to know the capacitance, the tolerance(typically 20%), voltage rating and the lead spacing and I could probably find some replacements for him through my sources.


IIRC, it's like 50 or so caps that ought to be changed out, that was kind of a SWAG on the pricing based on going to an electronics store and buying them OTC. Basically every cap from a certain manufacturer needs to be swapped out. Sure, some of them haven't failed yet, and they might or might not ever fail, but if you're going to go through the work of replacing them, you might as well replace all of them when you have the board out.


I think there are some kits on fleabay that list all the caps needed.

[Volt]

IIRC, it's like 50 or so caps that ought to be changed out, that was kind of a SWAG on the pricing based on going to an electronics store and buying them OTC. Basically every cap from a certain manufacturer needs to be swapped out. Sure, some of them haven't failed yet, and they might or might not ever fail, but if you're going to go through the work of replacing them, you might as well replace all of them when you have the board out.


I think there are some kits on fleabay that list all the caps needed.

Gotta agree, before I swap out 50 caps (I am an electronics type) on a PC MOBO, I'm dropping $270 for a new box. My time is worth more than what it would take to swap out the caps. Especially on a MOBO that is a few years old already. And your correct, once you replace the obvious one, you have to replace the rest. There is no way of know if they were damaged, going to fail soon as they are crap as well, etc.

[T.G]

Here's a few links to some kits for that board (supposedly):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Precision-670-Motherboard-Capacitor-Kit-Set_W0QQitemZ110486895483QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMother boards?hash=item19b9883b7b

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=1_4&products_id=11

More kits for other boards here:
http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=21


If the second link is accurate - best to have the OP verify first.



This is what your kit will contain to successfully rebuild your Dell Precision 670 Workstation.

The kit contains 51 capacitors, itemized as follows:
Quantity Value Voltage Diameter
31 2200uF 6.3v 10mm
14 1800uF 6.3v 8mm
2 1500uF 6.3v 10mm
4 1000uF 16v 8mm

[JE3146]

IIRC, it's like 50 or so caps that ought to be changed out, that was kind of a SWAG on the pricing based on going to an electronics store and buying them OTC. Basically every cap from a certain manufacturer needs to be swapped out. Sure, some of them haven't failed yet, and they might or might not ever fail, but if you're going to go through the work of replacing them, you might as well replace all of them when you have the board out.


I think there are some kits on fleabay that list all the caps needed.

Makes sense.

Wherever you look, make sure you're looking for computer grade capacitors, and also make sure your case is well cooled. Lowering the interior temperature of your server case will extend the life of future capacitors greatly.

[T.G]

Gotta agree, before I swap out 50 caps (I am an electronics type) on a PC MOBO, I'm dropping $270 for a new box. My time is worth more than what it would take to swap out the caps. Especially on a MOBO that is a few years old already. And your correct, once you replace the obvious one, you have to replace the rest. There is no way of know if they were damaged, going to fail soon as they are crap as well, etc.

I agree with you if this were a workstation, and all things being equal, I'd pitch the board and get a new one if possible (with components from a different vendor), but it sounds like simply replacing the board would leave the OP having to buy a number of additional parts and hardware due to incompatibilities with hardware on the current board which, in turn, would be running the cost up into the thousands.

[JE3146]

Gotta agree, before I swap out 50 caps (I am an electronics type) on a PC MOBO, I'm dropping $270 for a new box. My time is worth more than what it would take to swap out the caps. Especially on a MOBO that is a few years old already. And your correct, once you replace the obvious one, you have to replace the rest. There is no way of know if they were damaged, going to fail soon as they are crap as well, etc.

All depends really.... to me.. I'd replace them, but that's cus I don't have 400$ coin to drop on a new motherboard. And we're not talking 270$ boxes for dual Xeon. Server grade stuff carries a higher price tag.

With a solder sucker and some flux, I could do 50 replacements in a few hours. Most tedious part would be recording polarity.

[Volt]

All depends really.... to me.. I'd replace them, but that's cus I don't have 400$ coin to drop on a new motherboard. And we're not talking 270$ boxes for dual Xeon. Server grade stuff carries a higher price tag.

With a solder sucker and some flux, I could do 50 replacements in a few hours. Most tedious part would be recording polarity.

Whoops, yep I got distracted with the caps and my past experience with the GX260s/GX270's, completely missed the level workstation. Did a run on a cheap Precision T3500 64bit with a small RAID 5, $1,700.

Depending on the age of the machine, the reliability required and when it needs to be back up, it may be new server is required. If the piggy says no $$$, maybe buy the kit and and install it. I would wager a years' worth of cigars though, unless it's done by someone who has 2M skills and a 2M workstation, it will be an expensive failure. Those caps are a tight fit and power caps have to be done right.

[JE3146]

Whoops, yep I got distracted with the caps and my past experience with the GX260s/GX270's, completely missed the level workstation. Did a run on a cheap Precision T3500 64bit with a small RAID 5, $1,700.

Depending on the age of the machine, the reliability required and when it needs to be back up, it may be new server is required. If the piggy says no $$$, maybe buy the kit and and install it. I would wager a years' worth of cigars though, unless it's done by someone who has 2M skills and a 2M workstation, it will be an expensive failure. Those caps are a tight fit and power caps have to be done right.

All these capacitors have leads. They're not SMT. Just seat them flush and even to the PCB.

I've done cap swaps on motherboards and PSU's with no ill-effects whatsoever.

As long as a person cleans the through-holes cleanly with a solder sucker or wick(just be careful not to stray to other components), properly applies some flux to not burn out the components, double checks for no cold joints, and uses a soldering iron proper for the job. IE nothing over 50W with a fine tip. This should be easy as cake.

[Volt]

All these capacitors have leads. They're not SMT. Just seat them flush and even to the PCB.

I've done cap swaps on motherboards and PSU's with no ill-effects whatsoever.

As long as a person cleans the through-holes cleanly with a solder sucker or wick(just be careful not to stray to other components), properly applies some flux to not burn out the components, double checks for no cold joints, and uses a soldering iron proper for the job. IE nothing over 50W with a fine tip. This should be easy as cake.

Hehe - a 5 line sentance with a lot of IFs. I agree, not overly diificult, but I would still say not for the average person who has never done proper soldering. 50 caps = 100 joints with proper tinning, no cold joints, no slop, burning up the run, or getting the polarity backwards. Not to include gettin the right cap in the right spot..... I'm still betting a years worth of sticks against an untrained individual getting it right the first time if at all. :ss

1 years worth of cigars = all the Creamosas you can smoke.

[JE3146]

Hehe - a 5 line sentance with a lot of IFs. I agree, not overly diificult, but I would still say not for the average person who has never done proper soldering. 50 caps = 100 joints with proper tinning, no cold joints, no slop, burning up the run, or getting the polarity backwards. Not to include gettin the right cap in the right spot..... I'm still betting a years worth of sticks against an untrained individual getting it right the first time if at all. :ss

1 years worth of cigars = all the Creamosas you can smoke.

You changed your bet ;)

And I will agree that an untrained individual might not be able to do it. But technically I'm untrained aside from an intro class in college that pretty much just said don't burn your @&^# fingers :r.

I've just had a LOT of experience since then though. To me it's easy. The other day I had to solder a 64 pin TQFP microcontroller to a PCB. That's about what I'd consider moderate difficulty :D

[Silound]

I could do the soldering work IF I had the time. I don't. :( Plus, like you said, it's a tedious and delicate process. Even with experience, I'd say 50/50 odds that I screw up AT LEAST one :)

Unfortunately, I need the extra beef of the server I had to run all the crap I had going. The worst stress was some CAD rendering that would literally render the machine unusable for upwards of 4 hours at a time. I can't skimp very far on parts without severely crimping my ability to run all that at once.


Right now I'm browsing crapBay for parts. I have an offer with a guy to purchase a MOBO that has caps from a different manufacturer (thus not subject to the problems). It's also a newer one that supports dimms instead of rimms, so with some luck if I can get that and I have a couple gigs of unused dimms laying around. That would give me the least headache and probably the best option until a future date that I can afford a new workstation.

[coastietech]

I have to agree with Volt on this one... This isn't a repair that anyone can do. MoBo are typically multilayer and while replacing the caps may not be to difficult doing so without stippling the board or burning up a nearby SMT.

Not saying it can't be done, but I am saying I think some people in this thread are making it sound much easier than it really is. Take it for what it's worth, but you've got 2 people who have a background in electronics telling you it's harder than some people here are making it out to be.

[JE3146]

I have to agree with Volt on this one... This isn't a repair that anyone can do. MoBo are typically multilayer and while replacing the caps may not be to difficult doing so without stippling the board or burning up a nearby SMT.

Not saying it can't be done, but I am saying I think some people in this thread are making it sound much easier than it really is. Take it for what it's worth, but you've got 2 people who have a background in electronics telling you it's harder than some people here are making it out to be.

The assumption is that someone with enough technical understanding to not only know how to set up a system like the one he's using, but also be able to identify the problem and culprit of the issue he's facing might posses the know-how to be able to fix it as well ;)

If he knows, he knows. If he doesn't he doesn't. Either way, it's a solution to the problem, and one worth offering to him as long as he does it the way it needs to be done. If not, then it's wasted time and money. :tu