If defense wins championships.... [Archive]

OLS

01-13-2010, 09:52 AM

does that mean that the Saints don't have a prayer? As a lifelong fan of the Black and Gold, I am not
comfortable in saying this, but I think that's exactly what it means. Injuries have plagued the Saints'
steadily improving defense all year, and the inability to stop the run at the line means that the pressure
is all on the severely banged up secondary.

Now, even with all that said, the Saints' secondary is made up of some pretty smart cookies
and some pretty good rookies. Not rookies per se', but newbies anyway. (Usama Young in particular)
This whole run needed to have started when Charles Grant and Will Smith were younger studs.
They are still good enough to play, but man they are old. I just can't see a way they get to
even the Super Bowl. But if they do, this Mardi Gras is going to be the best ever. Can't wait! WHO DAT!

chachee52

01-13-2010, 10:41 AM

I'd love to see the Saints go to the SuperBowl. I can honestly say that N.O. needs to play like they did at the beginning of the year. The last few weeks they really did seem to fall completely apart (being a Pats fan I can say that I feel your pain).
Don't think that it's all Defense though. Look at the Colts a few years ago. They have NEVER had defense!!
Right now though, the Chargers look like the all around team and if they can keep it up they will go all the way.
Saints vs Chargers? Would like to see it!!

pnoon

01-13-2010, 10:43 AM

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 10:46 AM

Defense wins championships is a myth, especially nowdays. Would make for a great mythbusters episode though

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 10:49 AM

Yeah!. That's the ticket!

Not this year my follically challenged friend

pnoon

01-13-2010, 10:51 AM

Not this year my follically challenged friend

You know, if the Colts happen to play the Chargers in the playoffs this year, I'm gonna have to take some more of your cigars. :D

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 10:53 AM

You know, if the Colts happen to play the Chargers in the playoffs this year, I'm gonna have to take some more of your cigars. :D

Got some
JP's ageing just for you, :dr

pnoon

01-13-2010, 10:55 AM

Got some
JP's ageing just for you, :dr

I'll take your JLPs. Especially since it'll mean I can rub your nose in it yet again. :D

Blueface

01-13-2010, 10:58 AM

Defense wins championships is a myth, especially nowdays. Would make for a great mythbusters episode though

I don't know Vic.
I am still a firm believer defense does in fact win games.
You can have the most explosive offense in the world but if you can't score, well..............you don't win. Furthermore, if as result of your defense, you do score, either by way of a defensive score or by way of great field position............well what a great feather on that cap.

Vigiles

01-13-2010, 10:59 AM

Luckily for the saints the cardinals don't have much of a defense either, should make for quite the shootout!

It will be interesting to see if the saints D steps up in the playoffs or if the team overall continues like they were playing at the end of the regular season.

If they do beat the cardinals, they are going to have a VERY tough game against the cowboys or vikings.

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 11:28 AM

I don't know Vic.
I am still a firm believer defense does in fact win games.
You can have the most explosive offense in the world but if you can't score, well..............you don't win. Furthermore, if as result of your defense, you do score, either by way of a defensive score or by way of great field position............well what a great feather on that cap.

NFL network has a show on the biggest myths in football, defense wins championships is 3 on the list. Catch it when you can.

Your post kind of proves the point that it's a myth, eg something people just "believe" even though it's not true, sorry CRlos:D

OLS

01-13-2010, 11:29 AM

It will be interesting to see if the saints D steps up in the playoffsI think the D is going to show up most definitely. I am just one of the few New Orleans born and bred's
that (well, Michigan born, NO bred) believes that they are not 'destined' to go all the way.
Outside the city, there is still a very pragmatic argument against a NO championship. But man would I love it.

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 11:36 AM

I'll take your JLPs. Especially since it'll mean I can rub your nose in it yet again. :D
Keep talkin, and I'm gonna have to bwaahaha in the chargers thread when they lose to the colts right. After I bwaahaha. In the Jests thread when they lose to the Bolts.

Oh. Wait. There is no chargers thread? Now why is that?:confused::r

pnoon

01-13-2010, 11:39 AM

Keep talkin, and I'm gonna have to bwaahaha in the chargers thread when they lose to the colts right. After I bwaahaha. In the Jests thread when they lose to the Bolts.

Oh. Wait. There is no chargers thread? Now why is that?:confused::r

Thread? We don't need no steenkin' thread.

http://blogs.sun.com/factotum/resource/badges.jpg

white_s2k

01-13-2010, 11:46 AM

I
Saints vs Chargers? Would like to see it!!

Cowboys vs. Chargers :D

I think teams can be successful without a good defense, but in spurts. It becomes very hard to win 3-4 games in a row, in the playoffs, against the top teams in the NFL with only your offense. Because if the offense comes out and has one bad game, it's over. :2

pnoon

01-13-2010, 11:52 AM

Cowboys vs. Chargers :D

I think teams can be successful without a good defense, but in spurts. It becomes very hard to win 3-4 games in a row, in the playoffs, against the top teams in the NFL with only your offense. Because if the offense comes out and has one bad game, it's over. :2

It becomes very hard to win 3-4 games in a row, in the playoffs, against the top teams in the NFL with only your defense. Because if the defense comes out and has one bad game, it's over. :2

Blueface

01-13-2010, 12:03 PM

NFL network has a show on the biggest myths in football, defense wins championships is 3 on the list. Catch it when you can.

Your post kind of proves the point that it's a myth, eg something people just "believe" even though it's not true, sorry CRlos:D

Will look for it but boy does that myth resonate with me with many teams I recall in my lifetime.

Let's see.......Steelers, Giants ('86 and '91 teams), Ravens, Bears, just to mention a few. It was their dominant defense that solidified their wins.

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 12:19 PM

Will look for it but boy does that myth resonate with me with many teams I recall in my lifetime.

Let's see.......Steelers, Giants ('86 and '91 teams), Ravens, Bears, just to mention a few. It was their dominant defense that solidified their wins.

43 superbowl winners of those 28 scored
AT LEAST 25 points in the SB, 21 scored 30 points or more. Offenses won those games brother, not defenses

Blueface

01-13-2010, 12:20 PM

43 superbowl winners of those 28 scored
AT LEAST 25 points in the SB, 21 scored 30 points or more. Offenses won those games brother, not defenses

Vic,
That doesn't account for points scored by defenses.
That only accounts for points scored in general.
Need more convincing.

Resipsa

01-13-2010, 12:32 PM

Vic,
That doesn't account for points scored by defenses.
That only accounts for points scored in general.
Need more convincing.
Do your research Carlos, I'm not doing it for you, :r

http://www.superbowlhistory.net/superbowl/scores.php

Look at the boxscores. Frequently you'll see even the LOSING team rolled up over 400 or close to 400 yards of offense. Yes, there are the anomalies, but the majority of the games are clearly won by the offense, not the defense, and the losing teams offense had plenty of success against the winning teams defense.

Just look at two of the past 3 SB's. Last year the Steelers had a supposedly "great" defense, yet they gave up over 400 yards of offense to the Cardinals. The D didn't win that game, the Steelers offense did.

In 2006 the Bears supposedly had a "great" defense. The Colts rolled over them to the tune of 430 yards and an easy win.

Blueface

01-13-2010, 12:40 PM

Do your research Carlos, I'm not doing it for you, :r

http://www.superbowlhistory.net/superbowl/scores.php

Look at the boxscores. Frequently you'll see even the LOSING team rolled up over 400 or close to 400 yards of offense. Yes, there are the anomalies, but the majority of the games are clearly won by the offense, not the defense, and the losing teams offense had plenty of success against the winning teams defense.

Just look at two of the past 3 SB's. Last year the Steelers had a supposedly "great" defense, yet they gave up over 400 yards of offense to the Cardinals. The D didn't win that game, the Steelers offense did.

In 2006 the Bears supposedly had a "great" defense. The Colts rolled over them to the tune of 430 yards and an easy win.

I am still not convinced.:r:r:r

Vigiles

01-13-2010, 03:01 PM

There is no way that those statistics can say one way or the other that defenses don't win championships.

If the steelers defense wasn't great last year, they wouldn't have MADE it to the superbowl.

Raiders vs Tampa Bay a few years ago, great defense vs great offense, tampa ROLLED over Oakland. But then look at your examples, also valid points.

Super bowl yards or scores can't say what does or doesn't win championships, those teams are supposed to be the two best that year, so should either one not be able to score? Its not like last year it was pittsburgh vs detroit and the lions put up the numbers that Arizona did.

Vigiles

01-13-2010, 03:02 PM

Also, I'm pretty sure James Harrison, who scored a 100 yard touchdown, played on the Defense last year...:ss

OLS

01-14-2010, 08:19 AM

I am a believer of what happens in the super bowl is irrelevant. DEFENSE gets you in position
to win the championship is more like it. You have to STOP people to get to the big game, cause
by the time the wild card games are played, everybody in the playoffs is good enough to be there.
You have to stop people, but you are right, you have to score to win, obviously.
They were asking on WWL this morning why there were so many un-believers in the city. They were
asking how come so many people thought the Saints would lose to the Cards. I should make it clear,
I DON'T think the Cards are going to beat the SAINTS. I just doubt they have the stiffness on D
to make it all the way through the playoffs, although I have been waiting 4 decades for this. I think
that we know how to deal with the old fart QB of the Cards, and although Larry Fitz is going to run
circles around our DBs, he is only one man. I think we can stop Beannie, too, but he will also get
his yards in the first half. No I think the Saints make it to the NFC Champ game. Hopefully all the way
from there, but Brees is going to end up being the edge if we do.

OLS

01-14-2010, 08:26 AM

Because if the defense comes out and has one bad game, it's over. :2
Nutshell Time!

acruce

01-14-2010, 07:57 PM

Cowboys vs. Chargers :D

:tpd:

OLS

01-15-2010, 04:43 PM

Saints versus Ravens :D

Starscream

01-15-2010, 08:29 PM

I don't think that the Saints will make it past this week. They've lost three in a row at the end of the season. They're vulnerable and everyone knows their weaknesses. Unless they change their gameplan in the last two weeks, then there is no chance of them making it to the SB.

My pick:

Vikings/Colts in the Superbowl

Colts are the new Champions.

white_s2k

01-16-2010, 02:36 PM

Wow, Saints offense better be 100% today because their defense just gave up a TD 19 seconds into the game.

white_s2k

01-16-2010, 03:04 PM

Wow, Saints offense better be 100% today because their defense just gave up a TD 19 seconds into the game.

I say that, then the NO defense cause a turnover and is leading 14-7 :r

chachee52

01-16-2010, 04:37 PM

I'd say that the Saints Deffense has shown up to play today!! Either that or AR offense didn't show up to play. Either way, Cards look ugly!!!!

Starscream

01-16-2010, 04:44 PM

I'd say that the Saints Deffense has shown up to play today!! Either that or AR offense didn't show up to play. Either way, Cards look ugly!!!!

I think that the Cards offense didn't show up...

Blueface

01-16-2010, 06:09 PM

I think that the Cards offense didn't show up...

Hmmm......
How about for the purpose of the thread, the Cards' lack of defense lost the game?
Hmmm.....

OLS

01-16-2010, 07:13 PM

I'd say that the Saints Deffense has shown up to play today!! Either that or AR offense didn't show up to play. Either way, Cards look ugly!!!!
WO-Huh-HOW! What a game by the Saints. THIS was the game I was worried about. So now, fellas, forget about it. Saints ADVANCE to the Super Bowl. How about Reggie Bush? What a game by him. EVERYBODY worked so hard and played their hearts out for the best Saints game I have seen this year. Nice game call by Shawn Payton..........WHO dat!

Resipsa

01-17-2010, 05:02 AM

I am still not convinced.:r:r:r
How about now?:r

Colts offense, Ravens D.....who won brother?:banger

Vigiles

01-17-2010, 05:33 AM

To be honest, the ravens defense wasn't that good this year. Not like in years past.

And I would say that the colts defense played VERY well.

If you listen to some sports analysts, they say that the NFL (through its new rules, etc) has made having a very dominant defense impossible.

longknocker

01-17-2010, 06:00 AM

Geaux Saints!:banger SuperBowl Bound!:tu

chachee52

01-17-2010, 07:01 AM

If you listen to some sports analysts, they say that the NFL (through its new rules, etc) has made having a very dominant defense impossible.

Agreed. If the defense looks at the QB they get a penalty!!
Didn't get to see the Colts-Ravens game. Just was able to watch the score on my phone.

Blueface

01-17-2010, 07:52 AM

Hmmm......
How about for the purpose of the thread, the Cards' lack of defense lost the game?
Hmmm.....

How about now?:r

Colts offense, Ravens D.....who won brother?:banger

Vic,
See my post.
While the Saints Offense won the game, didn't the Cards Defense lose it as they stunk and couldn't stop the Saints?

Hey,
You are an attorney.
I am a frustrated attorney want to be dealing with attorneys every day.
We can have fun with this finding angles.:r

BTW,
I would argue the Colts Defense won that game.

macpappy

01-17-2010, 08:00 AM

macpappy

01-17-2010, 08:01 AM

On a side note....

I personally didn't go into New Orleans last night but I heard that the French Quarter and Bourbon Street was packed like it was Mardi Gras after the game last night.

Blueface

01-17-2010, 08:03 AM

As many points that the Saints put on the scoreboard last night with outstanding offense, many of those points were made possible by the play of their defense. A defense which held the Cards and Warner to 14 points.

Fumble recovery and good return lead to a touchdown.

Interception by an defensive lineman and return that lead to points while knocking Warner out for the rest of the half.

I'm not saying that the Saints defense is great but when your defense is good enough to keep the other team out of the endzone and giving your high powered offense a shorter field, then you will probably win most of your games.

Bingo!
:tpd:
That was evidenced by the Colts as well.
They kept the Ravens and Rice to 3 points and out of the end zone.
Any points by Indy beyond a fourth one were for fun as weren't necessary to win. Indy could have won with a touchdown and saved some for next week thanks to their defense.

Blueface

01-17-2010, 02:21 PM

Vic,
Yet one more example today.
Had the Vikings won had it not been for the stellar defense they played?
Like the Colts, they only needed one touchdown thanks to their defense.

longknocker

01-17-2010, 02:25 PM

Vic,
Yet one more example today.
Had the Vikings won had it not been for the stellar defense they played?
Like the Colts, they only needed one touchdown thanks to their defense.

I Agree, Carlos! Through The 1st Half, Cowboys Had More Offensive Yds., But Were Behind 17-3!:2