The new bold

[RevSmoke]

OK, I am one of those who likes big flavors. When it comes to foods, I love Thai, spicy salsa, and various hot sauces. When it comes to beer, it better have flavor, for example I don't know what Miller Lite means when it says it tastes great - it has no taste - water has more flavor. So, I tend to find myself with porters, stouts, ales, etc...

When it comes to cigars, I have a good friend who complains about the cigars I like, "If you like it, it'll probably knock me on my asterisk." (OK, so that isn't an exact quote, but the essence is there.) This is an issue of nicotine, and that sort of strength is not what is going to follow.

Here's where my question/commentary comes in.

It appears that in an effort to strive to be full-bodied and/or strong, there are cigars out there that acheive such at the expense of smoothness and flavor - if I can say it that way.

There are many cigars with some great flavors which fall all over the mild to full body spectrum. There are a couple cigars which fall in the mild category which have no flavor to them, as I like to say, they are like smoking straw.

But, now it seems to me that there are some full-bodied/strong cigars which don't seem to have much going for them except that fact. I have had a couple recently which were absolute power-houses and people have bragged about them. It wasn't that I couldn't handle them, but they were really one dimensional - strong - and not much in regard to flavor and complexity.

Is it just me? Has the full-bodied/strong crowd passed me by?

Or, are there full/strong cigars out there that don't have much else going for them?

Or, maybe they'll age all right and come around?

Or...(you have another idea)????

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[icehog3]

Or, are there full/strong cigars out there that don't have much else going for them?



There absolutely are, Todd....you are not crazy or delusional. ;)

[akumushi]

There absolutely are, Todd....you are not crazy or delusional. ;)

LFD Double Ligero comes to mind.

[The Poet]

I left-handedly broached this same subject - misguidedly, it later appeared - when I asked on an earlier thread about Joya de Nic's new "fuerte" blend. Who the fark wants a cigar that smokes as harsh as a length of jute? Just my :2, and worth every penny.

[M1903A1]

LFD Double Ligero comes to mind.

I agree. The one time I had an LFD Double Ligero I found it packed a potent kick...and that was about it. It was like smoking paper. :td

[bobarian]

I left-handedly broached this same subject - misguidedly, it later appeared - when I asked on an earlier thread about Joya de Nic's new "fuerte" blend. Who the fark wants a cigar that smokes as harsh as a length of jute? Just my :2, and worth every penny.

I agree. The one time I had an LFD Double Ligero I found it packed a potent kick...and that was about it. It was like smoking paper. :td

It is for these reasons that there are thousands of blends on the market. I thought the JdN Fuerte was a very pleasant smoke for a fresh cigar. Not nearly as strong as the Antano. I smoke a Dark Corojo Antano this past weekend and also thought it pleasant and flavorful. Both of these new JdN's will benefit from some down time but neither was offensively strong.

I also like the LFD DL line, depending on the vitola these can have some nice flavors.

For my taste some of the Pepin stuff out there is nothing but strength for strength's sake. But I know many of you love the Pepin stuff.

[JJG]

I have to disagree with the LFD sentiments in this thread. There are a lot of cigars that I believe sacrifice flavor for strength, but the LFDs aren't one of them. I've only smoked a few but none were short on flavor, and I was actually surprised at how smooth they were despite their reputation.

When reading this thread, the first cigar that came to mind for me was the DPG blue label lancero. I love the look of these but after smoking several now, it just seems like they have no taste at all. still burned the sh*t out of my nose though. total waste of time if you ask me.

[neoflex]

As a LFD HO I may be biased but, I agree with the above two posts. I think the DL line has plenty of flavor and are far from being one dimensional. The Chisel may fall into this a little bit but all the other vitolas are fantastic IMHO. I love the Pepin Blues too but agree that these tend to be more of a powerhouse smoke and can be a bit one dimensional but every now and than they are what I crave. Taste is subjective and I guess that is what's so great about smoking cigars. There is a smoke out there for everyone and part of the fun is trying to find that one smoke that is your end all be all.

[icehog3]

I thought the LFDs I smoked some time back had pretty decent flavor as well.

One cigar I was sad to see sacrifice flavor for more power, IMHO, was when they changes the blend on the La Aroma de Cubas.

[s15driftking]

I sometimes find myself mistaking flavor for intensity (strength).

i have (like you commented on) smoked strogn cigars that were boring and dull as well.

You are not crazy!!

[RevSmoke]

Now, different palates deal with different flavors in different ways.

Could part of this be palate issues? Inexperienced palates?

Could part of it be that we are inclined not to speak ill of certain blends and/or makers?

I bring this up because I have a couple cigars lately that are supposedly the newest, latest and greatest, only to be disappointed that they were all power and not much in the way of flavor or complexity.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[NCRadioMan]

Just like all cigars, some will love them and some won't. I like strong cigars. Some are supposed to be strong and I don't think they are but have great flavor and there are a few that I think are all power with little, true flavor. CAIN *cough cough*

[stitch]

I thought the LFDs I smoked some time back had pretty decent flavor as well.

One cigar I was sad to see sacrifice flavor for more power, IMHO, was when they changes the blend on the La Aroma de Cubas.
I couldn't agree more ... They screwed up one of my all time favorites just for the sake of putting "Pepin" on it. :td

[icehog3]

I couldn't agree more ... They screwed up one of my all time favorites just for the sake of putting "Pepin" on it. :td

Went from being one of my favorite NCs to a dog rocket for me, Stitch.

[RevSmoke]

Just like all cigars, some will love them and some won't. I like strong cigars. Some are supposed to be strong and I don't think they are but have great flavor and there are a few that I think are all power with little, true flavor. CAIN *cough cough*

That's one that I was thinking.

[Starscream]

I like the LFD DLs.

[elderboy02]

I like the LFD DLs.

:tpd: I also love the Cain's.

Luckily, there are zillions of cigars out there for everyone :tu

[rizzle]

LFD Double Ligero comes to mind.

x 2

Does nothing for me.

[wayner123]

Is it just me? Has the full-bodied/strong crowd passed me by? I don't think so. It can be a lot of factors... temperature, your own pallet, etc.

Or, are there full/strong cigars out there that don't have much else going for them? Yes and No. YMMV on which you consider this, but as an industry whole I don't think that is the case.

Or, maybe they'll age all right and come around? Could be, but then again most NC's have been aged to a certain point.

Or...(you have another idea)???? How long have you noticed this phenomenon? Is it recent? Take a look at things that may have changed in your own life or in your own environment.



Hopefully that helps a bit. I would love to know the factors and timing around this observation of yours.

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

Is it just me? Has the full-bodied/strong crowd passed me by? I don't think so. It can be a lot of factors... temperature, your own pallet, etc. Understood. See below.

Or, are there full/strong cigars out there that don't have much else going for them? Yes and No. YMMV on which you consider this, but as an industry whole I don't think that is the case. I wasn't referring to the industry as a whole, but to just a few brands/makers that seem to be pushing that "strength" envelope.[/I]

Or, maybe they'll age all right and come around? Could be, but then again most NC's have been aged to a certain point. Yeah, I know they have been aged for a while before release, but it is also true that I have seen NCs have some serious change after a couple months and/or years.

Or...(you have another idea)???? How long have you noticed this phenomenon? Is it recent? Take a look at things that may have changed in your own life or in your own environment. I have noticed changes in blends/cigars that I have enjoyed for years, but they are rather subtle. There are some cigars that I enjoyed, but no longer find exciting. Neither of this is what I am asking about. I am speaking of the popularity of new cigars on the scene which tout themselves as full-bodied and/or bold and/or strong cigars. Like I said, I love strong cigars, have for many years. This is something different though.

Hopefully that helps a bit. I would love to know the factors and timing around this observation of yours.
I would say that this is something I noticed in the last few (2-3) years. I know that there is a trend in American cigar smoking that the preferred smokes have been getting stronger. I am not talking about a broad generalization of the whole industry, but about a few select brands which I have smoked that make a think about their strength, and in that strength there was not much in the way of "enjoyable" flavors.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[wayner123]

Or, are there full/strong cigars out there that don't have much else going for them? Yes and No. YMMV on which you consider this, but as an industry whole I don't think that is the case. I wasn't referring to the industry as a whole, but to just a few brands/makers that seem to be pushing that "strength" envelope.

Which brands are these? That would help me out a lot in understanding, as there are hundreds of brands/lines to choose from.

Or, maybe they'll age all right and come around? Could be, but then again most NC's have been aged to a certain point. Yeah, I know they have been aged for a while before release, but it is also true that I have seen NCs have some serious change after a couple months and/or years.

I understood you to mean if the strength/harshness would go away. If that is what you mean, then some will some won't. I can say over the years I can count on one hand the amount of smokes that went through "serious" change from aging. But again, that's just my experience.

Or...(you have another idea)???? How long have you noticed this phenomenon? Is it recent? Take a look at things that may have changed in your own life or in your own environment. I have noticed changes in blends/cigars that I have enjoyed for years, but they are rather subtle. There are some cigars that I enjoyed, but no longer find exciting. Neither of this is what I am asking about. I am speaking of the popularity of new cigars on the scene which tout themselves as full-bodied and/or bold and/or strong cigars. Like I said, I love strong cigars, have for many years. This is something different though.

Again, which brands and vitolas are talking about?


To add as well, a good number of brands have also begun to make milder lines of their cigars as well. I call it the "macanudo money" share. They know that there are a good number of people who prefer milder cigars as well.

[UPHOTO]

The word strong here is in reference to nicotine levels?

People use the term for nicotine or flavor and from what I'm reading here you are looking for a strong cigar in terms of nicotine that has depth and great flavors?

[RevSmoke]

To add as well, a good number of brands have also begun to make milder lines of their cigars as well. I call it the "macanudo money" share. They know that there are a good number of people who prefer milder cigars as well.


I am guessing that you and I have been smoking cigars a lot longer that some others here have - if I remember correctly, that is.

I'm not going to post that whole other thing here, but will try to summarize. To which cigars am I referring? Well, I guess the first to come to mind is the Cain line. I have had two of them and both struck me as pure power (and a bit harsh/bitter at that), and while there might have been some nice flavors there, the simple strength overwhelmed what might have been flavor or finesse.

The other was a couple La Flor Dominicana Double Ligeros that I tried. Although, I smoked one which had been sitting in my humidor for over a year and it much more flavorful and smooth - it wasn't just a harsh strong stick.

Then, upon thinking back, I have had Illusione, Pepin, and Joya de Nicaraugua sticks which struck me with this same thought.

I have tried to examine whether mood, surroundings, or other things have made an impact, but nothing seems to stick out in my mind.


There are some others as well which struch me that way, but these are the ones

[Powers]

I enjoy Illusione and Pepin for a strong yet complex and flavorful smoke. Especially in smaller ring gauges like lanceros :2

[RevSmoke]

The word strong here is in reference to nicotine levels?

People use the term for nicotine or flavor and from what I'm reading here you are looking for a strong cigar in terms of nicotine that has depth and great flavors?

No! What I am talking about is strong as in flavor. You can have a mild tasting cigar with some wicked nicotine. That's a whole different beast.

For example the Cain is all ligero - just strong.

[UPHOTO]

ahhhh!!!! got it!

Yeah different then what I thought you were talking about.

I think Padron's fit this profile. Straight forward flavors that have depth to them but yeah it's tough to find something that has that kick to it in flavor yet also has the depth also.

[RevSmoke]

I would agree that Padrons are fairly strong and have great flavors, complexity, depth, etc...

A couple others have done that: Black Pepins (especially the Perlas), Tats (especially love the Noellas), Taboo has a few that fit the bill, as does Oliva.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[shilala]

Todd, I think I sent you a couple Oscuro A's. They're LFD's.
They are real expensive one dimensional poop cigars.
Then there's the LGD Ocuro Oriental you called me about. That's what I like.
That saves a lot of words. ;)
I like strong smokes that grow, blossom and change. They're fun.
On the other hand, if you want 14 inches of "okay" that never does anything, the LFD A's are the answer.
I suppose each has it's place. Your "likes" run real close to mine, and you like cigars to do the stuff I like, even if we don't like exactly the same flavors.
If you want to try a cigar that I think is technically perfect, try to land an original release Padilla Achilles.
It does EVERYTHING right. They just taste like green spray painted astroturf to me.
But I can appreciate the technical genius behind the blend. Ya know?

[RevSmoke]

Todd, I think I sent you a couple Oscuro A's. They're LFD's.
They are real expensive one dimensional poop cigars.
Then there's the LGD Ocuro Oriental you called me about. That's what I like.
That saves a lot of words. ;)
I like strong smokes that grow, blossom and change. They're fun.
On the other hand, if you want 14 inches of "okay" that never does anything, the LFD A's are the answer.
I suppose each has it's place. Your "likes" run real close to mine, and you like cigars to do the stuff I like, even if we don't like exactly the same flavors.
If you want to try a cigar that I think is technically perfect, try to land an original release Padilla Achilles.
It does EVERYTHING right. They just taste like green spray painted astroturf to me.
But I can appreciate the technical genius behind the blend. Ya know?

Yes, you did send to me one of the As. I haven't tried it yet as it has been sitting in my humidor. The Litto Gomez was indeed incredible - a stellar smoke - although I didn't find it all that "strong."

Something that tastes like green spray painted astroturf doesn't sound like something I really want to try. Why? I've eaten my share of it from different sports, never really did like it much then. However, I will keep my eyes open for an original Padilla Achilles, as I heard they are really good cigars. If I do find one, pardon me if I hope and pray that you were stuck varnishing or spray painting something every time you've had one, and so it was only your delusional mental meanderings that made them appear to taste like "green spray painted astroturf." :2

Love you man, it's all good. :tu

[jaymz]

I thought the LFDs I smoked some time back had pretty decent flavor as well.

One cigar I was sad to see sacrifice flavor for more power, IMHO, was when they changes the blend on the La Aroma de Cubas.

I couldn't agree more ... They screwed up one of my all time favorites just for the sake of putting "Pepin" on it. :td

:confused:

I thought just the "Edition Especial" was a different blend.

I've enjoyed couple of the older LADC's i've had and was thinking about making that my next box purchase. :mad: