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View Full Version : Dyed Wrappers on Cigars


itsme_timd
01-10-2010, 02:16 PM
I've heard this discussed several times but never thought much of it myself, but I got nailed with one today that made me think twice.

Since RP's OWR made #8 on CA's Top 25 I decided to pull one out of the humi and give it a shot. I've recently read some post on 'cigar wetting' and with the crazy weather here in GA this time of year my humi was a couple points low (62%) so I decided to try it out.

Well... when I rubbed the cigar this is what I got. Ridiculous. I know there are some that have said they don't care about dyed wrappers but if you've got to doctor your stuff up THIS much then you must be starting with some pretty bad wrapper leaf. And what is in the dye that he's using to get this color???

I sure won't run out to buy anymore RP's in the future.

http://i50.tinypic.com/pli0m.jpg

NCRadioMan
01-10-2010, 02:19 PM
That will happen almost all cigars. Wipe a lighter wrapper down with a white cloth and you will see.

itsme_timd
01-10-2010, 02:23 PM
That will happen almost all cigars. Wipe a lighter wrapper down with a white cloth and you will see.

In my experience, although you might get a little bit of rub off on them, they are nothing like this. The picture actually shows it pretty well but it looked like I had furniture stain on my hands.

s15driftking
01-10-2010, 02:24 PM
wow, that is crazy. I thought you were just joking at firat and going to say something like "haha, joke's on you guys, i just finished staining a table"...

WOW

NCRadioMan
01-10-2010, 02:25 PM
The darker the pigment, the more transfer it will have.

I don't remember who it was that posted it but they "wetted" a Cuban and put it in the fridge and it left a significant brown stain on the shelf.

JE3146
01-10-2010, 02:33 PM
The thing that gets me about this is people rag on cigarettes for the chemicals in them.

I'm no chemist, but what does burning this pigment produce?

NCRadioMan
01-10-2010, 02:35 PM
The thing that gets me about this is people rag on cigarettes for the chemicals in them.

I'm no chemist, but what does burning this pigment produce?

If a dye is used, it's usually a food grade dye that is safe for consumption. But I'm talking about the natural pigment of the wrapper itself. Think of it like this, what happens when you submerge tea leaves. The water turns brown. Are the tea leaves dyed?

md4958
01-10-2010, 02:36 PM
I've recently read some post on 'cigar wetting'

http://i50.tinypic.com/pli0m.jpg

Cigar wetting FAIL :td

itsme_timd
01-10-2010, 02:38 PM
If a dye is used, it's usually a food grade dye that is safe for consumption. But I'm talking about the natural pigment of the wrapper itself. Think of it like this, what happens when you submerge tea leaves. The water turns brown. Are the tea leaves dyed?

I see what you're saying on that, coffee is an even better example because of how dark it gets.

However, in order for this to dye my hands instantly it was not the natural pigmentation of the cigar working it's way out of the leaf. This had to be something on the exterior of the leaf rubbing off.

Hmmm, I may need to try some 'lab tests' on this.... :D

s15driftking
01-10-2010, 02:39 PM
Think of it like this, what happens when you submerge tea leaves. The water turns brown. Are the tea leaves dyed?

my point exactly, well said!

NCRadioMan
01-10-2010, 02:45 PM
FWIW, I am not saying that it wasn't dyed. I'm just saying that happens with almost all cigars. I know it happens with Padrons. I found some 6000 maduros in a b&m with some light mold and the owner let me have them. I took them home and wiped them down with a slightly damp white cloth and they left a nice, ugly brown stain on the cloth instantly.

JE3146
01-10-2010, 02:46 PM
If a dye is used, it's usually a food grade dye that is safe for consumption. But I'm talking about the natural pigment of the wrapper itself. Think of it like this, what happens when you submerge tea leaves. The water turns brown. Are the tea leaves dyed?

Won't argue that.. but isn't that the difference between a physical reaction and a chemical reaction?

I'm talking it being burned, not submersed in water.

NCRadioMan
01-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Won't argue that.. but isn't that the difference between a physical reaction and a chemical reaction?

I'm talking it being burned, not submersed in water.

Ah, I see. That's a good question. I haven't a clue. :D I would ask the same of propylene glycol. It's in alot of foods but it's also in alot of tobaccos.

JE3146
01-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Ah, I see. That's a good question. I haven't a clue. :D I would ask the same of propylene glycol. It's in alot of foods but it's also in alot of tobaccos.

I'm sure it's fine, but it definitely makes me wonder. :tu

s15driftking
01-10-2010, 03:09 PM
Won't argue that.. but isn't that the difference between a physical reaction and a chemical reaction?

I'm talking it being burned, not submersed in water.


This is an honest question with no sarcasm.

Would it matter since you do not inhale a cigar? You aren't "ingesting" any of the toxins right?

itsme_timd
01-10-2010, 03:13 PM
This is an honest question with no sarcasm.

Would it matter since you do not inhale a cigar? You aren't "ingesting" any of the toxins right?

Just a guess here but I guess that would be like the nicotine, you don't inhale but it's still absorbed into the body.

Great discussion here!

JE3146
01-10-2010, 03:15 PM
This is an honest question with no sarcasm.

Would it matter since you do not inhale a cigar? You aren't "ingesting" any of the toxins right?

I think underneath your tongue is one of the most absorbent spots in all your body. At least I'm pretty sure.

Which is why people put the nitro capsules under their tongue in the event of a heart attack. Also why if my blood sugar goes too low for me to actually eat something (I'm a type 1 diabetic) and I don't have my emergency medication, my wife is to put sugar of some sort underneath my tongue, rather than forcing it down my throat and having me choke to death.

Also Nicotine is ingested without inhaling.

So while the toxins might not contribute to lung cancer, ... as I said it just makes me wonder :confused:

Smoking Q
01-10-2010, 03:16 PM
I've never had this issue, maybe I'll wipe down a couple of cigars just to see what happens

Sauer Grapes
01-10-2010, 03:24 PM
I've had a CAO black do that to my fingers.

Vigiles
01-10-2010, 03:43 PM
I think underneath your tongue is one of the most absorbent spots in all your body. At least I'm pretty sure.

Which is why people put the nitro capsules under their tongue in the event of a heart attack. Also why if my blood sugar goes too low for me to actually eat something (I'm a type 1 diabetic) and I don't have my emergency medication, my wife is to put sugar of some sort underneath my tongue, rather than forcing it down my throat and having me choke to death.

Also Nicotine is ingested without inhaling.

So while the toxins might not contribute to lung cancer, ... as I said it just makes me wonder :confused:

Correct, underneath your tongue, your cheeks and gum area also absorbs things. We use glucose tubes for diabetics when their blood sugar is low, we put it on a stick and put it between their cheeks and gums.

T.G
01-10-2010, 03:45 PM
If a dye is used, it's usually a food grade dye that is safe for consumption. But I'm talking about the natural pigment of the wrapper itself. Think of it like this, what happens when you submerge tea leaves. The water turns brown. Are the tea leaves dyed?

I believe the dye is actually often made from tobacco plant stalks, so they're basically just dying tobacco with concentrated tobacco juce tea.

Snake Hips
01-10-2010, 03:53 PM
I believe the dye is actually often made from tobacco plant stalks, so they're basically just dying tobacco with concentrated tobacco juce tea.
From everything I've read it's a molasses concoction. Makes it darker, adds sweetness.

T.G
01-10-2010, 04:04 PM
From everything I've read it's a molasses concoction. Makes it darker, adds sweetness.

Possible, although I think the sugar content in molasses might cause some some severe carbonization issues both in appearance and flavor when burned.

I could see a combination of some percentage of both being used though.

itsme_timd
01-10-2010, 04:10 PM
I believe the dye is actually often made from tobacco plant stalks, so they're basically just dying tobacco with concentrated tobacco juce tea.

Interesting info. Do my beloved LP's use any of this witchcraft??? :eek:

JE3146
01-10-2010, 04:10 PM
Possible, although I think the sugar content in molasses might cause some some severe carbonization issues both in appearance and flavor when burned.

I could see a combination of some percentage of both being used though.

Was just gonna say that myself.

JJG
01-10-2010, 04:16 PM
yeah, I know that the dye is natural and harmless, but there's still that psychological "ick-factor"

to me, dying cigars is similar to using a corked baseball bat. I understand why manufactures use dye, but when you see pictures like the ones in this thread, it makes you realize that consequences and backlash can be more damaging than the advantages you gain from using it.

T.G
01-10-2010, 04:20 PM
Interesting info. Do my beloved LP's use any of this witchcraft??? :eek:

I don't think so. Saka has emphatically stated that no treatments are performed on the LP9 nor T52 wrappers.

Salvelinus
01-10-2010, 04:29 PM
Glad to hear that it looks worse than it probably is. I wouldn't be as excited to smoke a stick if that happened right before I lit up though.

SmokinApe
01-10-2010, 05:21 PM
If a dye is used, it's usually a food grade dye that is safe for consumption.

Consumption and combustion are two different things...

bobarian
01-11-2010, 04:45 PM
Wow, That's pretty ugly. In my thread on wetting cigars, I mentioned I had not done this with NC cigars. I guess we now know what can happen with some cigars.

SkinsFanLarry
01-11-2010, 04:51 PM
Come on Tim, you know you have very sweaty hands! :r

Just kiddin' my friend! :banger

itsme_timd
01-11-2010, 09:31 PM
Come on Tim, you know you have very sweaty hands! :r

Just kiddin' my friend! :banger

LOL, did I mentioned I'd just stained a dresser? No? Oh sorry... musta forgot. :r