Did I do wrong? Long read very adult/serious issue [Archive]

View Full Version : Did I do wrong? Long read very adult/serious issue

kzm007

12-27-2009, 12:38 AM

(Begin lengthy story)

There's a young lady I talk to online, from Nova Scotia. Not giving the town in case one of the Canucks sees this; with my luck, it'd be hell to pay.

We met on Facebook; her friend had some songs on Youtube I liked, so I added him there. We've since drifted apart, but "Katie" and I started talking about five months ago. The girl was in love with me, and believe me, I'm quite sure she meant it - she was all set to come see me in school last October, but things got bad between us before that date.

It's not that I don't love or care about her, but a few months ago, I started talking to a cousin of one of my local friends; she lives in Florida, but her dad lives in the town my college is in, and "Mary" was going to come see me this December on break - again, things turn bad beforehand.

Women get jealous of each other, I'm aware of that, and I recognize that I should've laid out ground rules with Katie long beforehand; Mary came along, and I thought that maybe dating someone in-country, who was 'closer' would be easier. Never mind the fact that Kissimmee may be farther than the Canadian border - Nova Scotia's a freakin' island, isn't it?

Of course Katie is hurt, she's upset, she's not speaking to me. Somehow, Mary managed to smooth that over, and we were at least close friends. I bought Mary a birthday present - paid twenty bucks for some art pencils, she does good work, and she was ecstatic. She told me her father forgot her birthday; we talked nightly, and 'slept together,' literally, over the phone :r I thought she like-liked me lol.

And then, I think her ex talked her into the thought that I was 'playing the field' with both of these girls; the @ss even had the audacity to send me a message on Facebook stating how sickened and "offended" he was that I was using these women.

To close the letter, he told me to lose the tweed cap and Boswell briar pipe because I looked like a dumb@ss, and he signed the note with his name, and continues with a postscript telling me how to pronounce it, making it sound regal. Chamness is "Cham-wah" or something...yes, I thought Sham Wow :D

So Mary and Katie are both pissed at me. I wasn't intentionally doing any harm, it just happened. Mary's deleted me from her contacts since...convenient, and Katie and I still talk, and Katie talks to Mary, but Katie told me she can't wait forever for me, and she's got a new boyfriend...trust me, Katie and I were close and had been until the other girl. Stupid Kegan.

***possibly offending details***

Katie's always had a hard life. Her mom walked off after the birth, her dad's a lush, and she was molested/raped by her godfather for a few years when she was at least seven, if I recall...she can't listen to Johnny Cash because he always played him and she's terrified of him. I quit chewing partially because he chewed, and I know it bothered her.

She'd been into hard drugs, told me she quit about twelve or thirteen. I'm talking meth, heroin, etc.; "Canadian tobacco" is salad green compared to that business :).

She'd been in an abusive relationship, and if any of you know about my psychotic outburst (check my recent posts) due to my pills; she said she'd never been more nervous in her life - it was like a flashback. I kept assuring her that I wasn't him, and I'd hurt myself before I laid a finger on her; naturally, she doesn't believe me. Scared and paranoid. Hell, it scared me, I'm getting help. I've never lost it, and all I did was get mad and slam the laptop shut, throw a massage pad as best I could across the room, and knock a microphone over because I couldn't wrap the cord and slide it back in the plastic.

Anyway, out of this abusive relationship comes this friend, "Tom" from school, and I guess he essentially restored her; found her lying at the bottom of some basement steps after the boyfriend beat her pretty badly. I don't recall if the boyfriend used a bat, or Tom did to basically keep the bastage at bay and away from Katie. They were close (this was before I knew her) dated, etc. but a few months ago, he told her out of the blue that he didn't ever want to see her again, something along those lines laced with profanities. Katie was devastated, of course. And I was there for her then.

***Graphic details end***

Let me add that Mary at this time, for all purposes is a peripheral character; we were 'friendly' but it was getting colder.

Katie and he just recently made up somewhat a few weeks; he initiated it. I think it's because he broke up with his girlfriend, you know how that goes - some guys can't be alone. Katie says it's awkward talking to him. Yeah, no chit girl. And after I finally had her convinced he was worthless.

I trust her, she's a sincere girl, and I recently sent her a large sum of money to pay some debts she owed rent-wise. She's supposed to send me a box of items; I asked for them so it wouldn't seem like I was pitying her...I wasn't, but I'm just too caring and I worry about her. I'll get the stuff when she gets the money (she's a cashier) and I believe that.

Before the money incident, one day getting a ride home from work, she was raped. Yeah. Got pregnant. She was going to keep the baby, didn't want to be like her mother and abandon it, but she miscarried. Hand to God and on my knees, maybe that was for the best, given her situation.

She lives with her brother and grandparents. Near a highway. She bought a beautiful husky-ish puppy. And she caught the swine flu...they thought it was Bell's Palsy, if I recall. Anyway, and this kills me, she let the dog out to do her thing and...the house is next to the highway. Poor thing died on the way to the vet. She couldn't run after her.

[Pauses to cry, looks over at the dogs on his bed]

She lost the baby, she lost her dog, she lost her friend, and she lost her innocence - numerous times when younger, and then that work incident. She wouldn't press charges because she told me chit was different in Canada, and they wouldn't give her a damn, or a second glance if she called in a rape, because of her past - I don't know if she was arrested as an adult (she's twenty). I finally talked her into it, but I don't remember what happened. She was also to testify against her godfather for the sexual abuse, but the @#%! had a damn good lawyer, and hers advised her it was pointless.

Lastly, in a way, she feels like she lost me, too, thanks to Mary. Mary's ignoring me, but the damage is done. Katie and I are friends, but she's got a boyfriend.

(End background info)

And, like I knew would happen, I'm jealous as can be. Today's even his birthday, hahaha.

Anyway, I showed her a solar globe on this site (<http://images.thingsremembered.com/s7ondemand/zoom/dhtml_zoom.jsp?company=ThingsRemembered&sku=000639170&zoomwidth=450&zoomheight=450>). Click on the inscription, and read it. That's her actual name, and it fit the both of us, eerily

She got looking around and said she felt bad she didn't have the funds to buy her grandmother anything nice, after all the years of raising her and her brother. She showed me a photo frame, and commented how she'd personalize it for her.

Folks, I have money. I have a big heart, and she means the world to me (really wanted to buy that damn globe, in black). So, I told a small fib, well, partial truths, said it was for a family member who liked photography, as a birthday gift. (lie, truth, lie...wait, don't two wrongs make a right? lol). I asked her how she would place the inscription, on the top of the frame, or the bottom.

She should have caught on, and I feel a little bad, but I ordered it for her, and plan to send it as a possibly-early birthday gift.

Now, she has a boyfriend, and after my outburst, she said she's afraid to trust me...she just doesn't seem to understand that pills sometimes overreact...my muscle relaxant worked for a bit, but now I have a neck and head ache. I don't feel bad sending her a gift because I don't think (going by high school rules, here) they'll last that long...

[however, she stayed with the abuser for like, three years out of fear, and when he calls her to go to a party, she does it. Months ago, he IMed her, claiming he'd changed, begging her to go out with him. I begged her not to, told her she was a tad stupid to think he'd matured, but he 'melted her heart' online; she came back and said he'd hurt her; I got no details and Sarah refuses to go to the police...poor girl's sick of the courts. Ironically, before she went back to high school to make up some credit hours, she was going to college/uni to be a lawyer...go figure.]

Anyway, she's with this guy, but I'm sending this frame regardless.

To ask a simple question after all of that...stuff, am I doing wrong?

I plan to send her a letter explaining myself, but I just want to see that she's taken care of unlike the others have done, even if it is by buying her gifts and such...the 'I love you' scales have switched, and I don't want to think about her not being around or see her get hurt any longer; there's a video of me on Facebook, I stopped writing to record, where I bawl and apologize for not being able to be there for her physically through the years. Never mind the fact that I 'don't really know' her, because it feels like I do after all of this.

Please keep in mind that she's been hurt in almost every way possible, and she still seems as strong as steel; she has nightmares, I'm told by her about the early days, but she's a very sweet girl and generally chipper.

I'm doing this out of love and consideration, but what do you all think, religious and non-religious alike? Do you believe that the Higher Being/karma would help me for helping her?

Again, that is not my reason for this, nor am I trying to 'win her back'. I just want to know that I made her happy, even if it is for the last time in life, if she's too upset with me.

I also plan on sending her http://www.amazon.com/George-Jones-Golden-Tammy-Wynette/dp/B00005YUOC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261899001&sr=8-1>]this DVD (<"http://www.amazon.com/George-Jones-Golden-Tammy-Wynette/dp/B00005YUOC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261899001&sr=8-1") because she loves him as much as I do, and http://www.amazon.com/Stoner-Spaz-Ron-Koertge/dp/B002XUM1TI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261899101&sr=8-1>]this book (<"http://www.amazon.com/Stoner-Spaz-Ron-Koertge/dp/B002XUM1TI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261899101&sr=8-1") because it's so close to me, it's almost scary...on a related note, the author is a cinephile (loves movies/movie buff basically) and I read on the back that he lives in the house where John Carpenter's 1978 Halloween was filmed.

Sorry for the long and a little disturbing post...I just write and this stuff comes out...which is a shame, in a way, but on different planes...magical.

Mods, I assume this is an open forum, and my content counts as free speech? I'm disgusted having to write all of that to ask a question, but I felt people needed as exact a picture as I could give. Any confusion to the info, ask.

A very drained -

Kegan

Ratters

12-27-2009, 01:25 AM

Yes, you look like a dumb@ss in a tweed cap.

:D

In all seriousness, giving should be done freely with no expectation of any kind of return, even a karmic one. Then you are not giving, you are buying. Be happy to do something that may brighten her day a bit. We give gifts because it makes us feel good to do so, that is all the return we should expect. I do believe in the good will and blessings of God, but that comes from attempting to do his will, not giving in expectation of return.

kzm007

12-27-2009, 01:55 AM

I'll have you know sir that this cap...covers my thinning hair :D and thanks...I think. The insult may or may not negate the good advice. Only karma will tell :r

Re-reading that, it does sound like I'm asking for karma points, but those are given so freely on this board, I don't need any more at the moment...if I lose any, it's because I ate some bad Pufferfish :ss

Careful sir, play your hand very carefully in life ;)

I suppose my main question should be "Did I do wrong in giving so much?" I mean, I know her, but I've never met her, yet I send her $300 Canadian in good faith, and I sure hope faith pays off in regards to the goods.

Her Christmas card, and a Robert Frost I bought her were also much cheaper gestures, and now a $60 photo frame. Do you suppose there's a limit?

Obviously lol.

sodomanaz

12-27-2009, 02:08 AM

I think you forgot to put "Dear Livejournal" at the start of your post. ;)

kzm007

12-27-2009, 02:15 AM

I should slap you ;) but that would make me emo, and only prove your point ;)

I've never used LiveJournal...or even my Blogger account lol. I said, I just thought showing past scenarios might help in solving my current query.

I'll take "Neurotic poster" for $1000, Alex. The one in the tweed seat cover.

adampc22

12-27-2009, 02:44 AM

man what a thing to read at 9am on a sunday morning

sodomanaz

12-27-2009, 02:48 AM

man what a thing to read at 9am on a sunday morning

Since when can you read? :p

adampc22

12-27-2009, 02:51 AM

Since when can you read? :p

dont know if i ever wana read ever again after seeing that i think i may just burn my eyes out

baldanders

12-27-2009, 02:52 AM

If it was me I think I would cut my losses and try to find a girl that lives in the same state as I do. But thats just me and what the heck do I know.

shilala

12-27-2009, 03:55 AM

I have a lot of Marshall Tucker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywiRLhRKtY) in me.
Add to that, last I checked, they were stamping out women every day.
If I get a whiff of drama, I just go "next".
My newest girlfriend has lasted 4 months, which in shilala terms is pretty much a lifetime. If it gets past two weeks, it usually lasts about three years.
I guess my point is this...
Don't get your panties all wadded up so much. :tu

kzm007

12-27-2009, 05:47 AM

Panties? She didn't mention panties...

OH! :tu now...somebody please PM, and post here that you did, how to properly make a word a click-able link; half the time it works, the other half, I get the web address and the word together...talk about throwing a computer out a second-story window xD Windows out the window.

Scottw

12-27-2009, 06:56 AM

Maybe find someone closer that you can be with physically instead of on the computer? Maybe it will allow your true self to shine through quicker. I dated a girl from Antarctica and it just didn't pan out with me living in Jersey and all :-)

Subvet642

12-27-2009, 07:35 AM

If I may; it seems that you need to forget about women for a while, completely. Judging from this, and your previous thread, you need to direct your energies toward yourself before you can have enough to spare for anyone else. This girl in Nova Scotia has more problems than you can, or should deal with, given your own issues. You can't help her. Only she can straighten out her life, and only you can straighten out yours. I would recommend that you get your meds corrected, concentrate on school, and endeavor to create an orderly, disciplined life for yourself. I've been through a lot in life, myself; I was orphaned at 8, I was homeless after I got out of the Navy, and I'd lost everything I had, twice. Except loosing my parents, everything that happened to me was a direct result of decisions I made. Each time, I strapped some b@lls on, and I persevered. Through all that I found that people are the architects of their own misery, and as Abe Lincoln once said: a person is only as happy as they make up their minds to be. I hope this isn’t too harsh, but you’re an adult, and you should start conducting your life like an adult. Be well, and good luck! :gl

Don Fernando

12-27-2009, 07:38 AM

OH! :tu now...somebody please PM, and post here that you did, how to properly make a word a click-able link; half the time it works, the other half, I get the web address and the word together...talk about throwing a computer out a second-story window xD Windows out the window.

you use the tags [ url=http://here the web addres ] here the clickable text[ /url] and just lose the spaces

Bruins Fan

12-27-2009, 08:03 AM

Run..Forrest..run.

replicant_argent

12-27-2009, 08:26 AM

Pilon

12-27-2009, 08:29 AM

My :2, I would be leary of sending anyone online money and gifts who I have never met before. Who's to say it's not all a hoax. Not trying to rain on a parade but you never know these days.

icehog3

12-27-2009, 08:37 AM

Shop locally. Stay away from drama queens and women with a truck full of baggage and problems. Women like that only make your life worse and worse, their life never gets uncomplicated. Sounds harsh, but the best advice I could give, Keegan.

Sage advice, Pete. Been there, done that. I would move on, Kegan.

ashtonlady

12-27-2009, 09:53 AM

You sound like what my daughter is dealing with. I told her that people that try to date from keyboards have something to hide. There is something about being able to look at someones face as you talk to them that makes things make sense. I agree go local and if the turn you down it was there choice, that doesnt mean there is something wrong with you. It means they dont like that flavor of jelly bean.

acruce

12-27-2009, 10:38 AM

Dude, common, On line relation ships that far away will never work out. Find a nice girl close to home. It will make your life much easier.:2

kzm007

12-27-2009, 10:49 AM

Run..Forrest..run.

You sound like what my daughter is dealing with. I told her that people that try to date from keyboards have something to hide. There is something about being able to look at someones face as you talk to them that makes things make sense. I agree go local and if the turn you down it was there choice, that doesnt mean there is something wrong with you. It means they dont like that flavor of jelly bean.

1. Hilarious considering I've been called Forrest because of the crutches/braces at one point. Stupid Tom Hanks and his miracle lol damn Hollywood.

2. Kids and keyboards is how it's done today. You meet online, MySpace, Facebook, or a nice cigar forum, and then you arrange a face to face. I trust her because nobody could make up a story like that, and I heard a snippet of a phone call she caught on, where her grandfather was discussing the molestation, so I believe all of it.

Face to face is scary. 80 percent of people would rather die than do public speaking...and 80 - 85 percent of individuals left with the task of cleaning up a suicide scene go on to commit it themselves.

As for the money, I'm buying books I know she has, I've seen, and an iPod or two I planned to fix. We'll see, it's a gamble.

And for the record, most girls seem to have baggage any more. Hard pressed to find a virgin in this area, not that it matters, and I know a handful of girls who've done the cutting BS...crazy chit, my friends.

I'll tread lightly though...I'm a good Samaritan at least...Jerusalem to Jericho, Heaven to hell and back again...story of my life.

You're all good guys. Thanks.

Tombstone

12-27-2009, 11:04 AM

Eleven

12-27-2009, 11:44 AM

Shop locally. Stay away from drama queens and women with a truck full of baggage and problems. Women like that only make your life worse and worse, their life never gets uncomplicated. Sounds harsh, but the best advice I could give, Keegan.

This.

No need to repeat what has been said but life is too short to smoke bad cigars.

You know what I mean.

shilala

12-27-2009, 11:48 AM

This.

No need to repeat what has been said but life is too short to smoke bad cigars.

You know what I mean.
That is some serious prophetic stuff.
My girlfriend lives 2 hours away and it's a pain in the ass.
Worth it, but still a pain in the ass. :tu

GTCanuk

12-27-2009, 11:58 AM

All I got to say what is with women name Katie:(

icehog3

12-27-2009, 12:39 PM

and 80 - 85 percent of individuals left with the task of cleaning up a suicide scene go on to commit it themselves.

Kegan, you know I am rooting for you to do whatever you need to be happy, you deserve it.

I do have to take exception to the comment I quoted you on though, and ask where that statistic came from.

M1903A1

12-27-2009, 12:53 PM

I do have to take exception to the comment I quoted you on though, and ask where that statistic came from.

I have to agree.

Thrak

12-27-2009, 01:00 PM

Did I miss the part where you have actually met these ladies in person or was EVERYTHING online?

FWIW, 1 in 5 divorces mention Facebook in the papers.... just saying.

alley00p

12-27-2009, 01:37 PM

Kegan, :2 from a FOG...

I've been married twice in 38 years. The first to a very nice girl I met in Las Vegas, while I was in the Air Force. Unfortunately, she wasn't mature enough to be away from her extended family in Vegas, which led to our divorce after 5 years.

I was fortunate to meet my current wife of 33 years, during a company softball game and picnic. We have raised 3 boys of our own, along with my oldest son from my first marriage. There was no "online" stuff then, and everyone I knew met their girlfriends or spouses in person. There's something to be said about meeting someone in person, instead of through a computer.

FWIW, I only know one couple, who met through the old "Usenet" groups, and they have been married for 8 years. But they seem to be the exception.

I'd look for people to meet closer to home. especially if you want to create a relationship. This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it! :D

Good luck in your life, my friend!

:dance:

junkinduck

12-27-2009, 02:19 PM

95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Don Fernando

12-27-2009, 04:03 PM

I told her that people that try to date from keyboards have something to hide.

I have to disagree with you here Laura. One of my best friends since childhood is happily married and has 2 wonderful kids with a woman he met online. And there are more people I know that are in steady relationships now but met online.

Ashcan Bill

12-27-2009, 04:12 PM

Here's my personal opinion.

Regardless of whether the relationship starts face-to-face or on-line, I think the vast majority of long distance relationships eventually fade away. While there are always exceptions, over the long run they are pretty rare.

Sooner or later people want more than what a virtual relationship has to offer, and find it with someone closer to home. A true relationship involves more than phone calls and banging away on a keyboard. And no matter what you may believe, an on-line relationship doesn't provide the emotional support and bonding you achieve in a physical relationship. It just doesn't.

If all you're looking for is friendship, that's one thing. Looking for a girlfriend on-line is quite another.

Whether you choose to accept it or ignore it, Pete's advice is likely the best you'll receive.

Shop locally.

loki

12-27-2009, 04:22 PM

support your local b&ms and single mothers ;)

floydpink

12-27-2009, 05:24 PM

Kegan,

Distance sometimes makes the heart grow fonder, but it never works in a relationship.

Move on.

PS. I'm so much cooler online.

hotreds

12-27-2009, 05:50 PM

I think you have your answer. While it is commendable that you want to help these people, you are being drawn into a swirling vortex of bad. You have one life to live; it's not worth being dragged down into the mud by people you really don't even know!

God Bless you in 2010, I know all the brothers and sisters here join in sending you nothing but good wishes for the New Year!

RevSmoke

12-27-2009, 07:21 PM

Keegan,

I appreciate your laudable goals. You want advice? Get out and meet someone. Yeah, it is risky. Yes, rejection hurts. it is so much easier to hide behind a keyboard.

Yes, there are those who have made it work.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I gotta ask. In regard to dating, what are you hiding while behind your keyboard? What is she hiding behind her keyboard?

As for you statistics about suicide and those who clean up the mess, that's malarky.

Get off the keyboard and get out and meet some people.

God's blessings to you.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

replicant_argent

12-27-2009, 08:01 PM

Kids and keyboards is how it's done today. You meet online, MySpace, Facebook, or a nice cigar forum, and then you arrange a face to face. I trust her because nobody could make up a story like that, and I heard a snippet of a phone call she caught on, where her grandfather was discussing the molestation, so I believe all of it.
And for the record, most girls seem to have baggage any more. Hard pressed to find a virgin in this area, not that it matters, and I know a handful of girls who've done the cutting BS...crazy chit, my friends.

Remarkably, good people found partners before keyboards. Get out of your own head and habits. If you think the barrel is full of "spoiled" fish, find another barrel. Find another group of acquaintances. Change a few habits and ways of doing things. You will meet new people. Change the paradigm. It might take more than you expect. For that matter, it may be well worth every change you make to stay away from people that will not make your life better, no matter how much you want to help them.

M1903A1

12-27-2009, 09:48 PM

it may be well worth every change you make to stay away from people that will not make your life better, no matter how much you want to help them.

YES!!!!!!!!

I wish I could get back all the time and money I wasted, and forget the emotional roller coasters I got bounced around on (sometimes for years), before I figured out this bit of erstwhile common sense.

KidRock

12-27-2009, 09:53 PM

The last few post have hit it right on the HEAD.

My ex lives 3 hours away from me. I work ALOT of hours and get paid in pizza sauce and personal pan pizzas. I realized it takes two people not one.

The FOGs here are wise and well trusted....:2

kzm007

12-28-2009, 12:03 AM

I'll have to second Rock's agreement; I understand what you're both trying to tell me, and I can use it, but at the moment, I can't change any possible paradigm without the doctor using the scalpel and easing that pain first.

A man wouldn't ride a canyon on a dying horse, looking for greener pastures (well, today he might, with animal rights) he would put the fellow down and get a new horse. And hopefully that's what this little dissection will do is to re-route some trails so travel's a little smoother when he sobers up and finds the keys to his Arabian ;)

My problem is not that I'm too trusting - I didn't like a group of people one time, but I acted like they did and blended in - my problem is that my heart's too big and too soft for my own good. When I become a hard-hearted bastage with a heart the size of a pebble like the wise FOGs here ;) then I'll be better suited to do what I set out to do.

icehog3

12-28-2009, 12:06 AM

When I become a hard-hearted bastage with a heart the size of a pebble like the wise FOGs here ;) then I'll be better suited to do what I set out to do.

I think everyone here has been pretty supportive, Kegan, and I hope that is just the pain talking and that you really don't think that the FOGs are callous just because some may have more life experience than you do.

kzm007

12-28-2009, 12:39 AM

Kegan,

Distance sometimes makes the heart grow fonder, but it never works in a relationship.

Move on.

PS. I'm so much cooler online.

Naturally you are cooler online for Pete's sake lol; Florida's hotter than the place RevSmoke talks about :D

Keegan,

I appreciate your laudable goals. You want advice? Get out and meet someone. Yeah, it is risky. Yes, rejection hurts. it is so much easier to hide behind a keyboard.

Yes, there are those who have made it work.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I gotta ask. In regard to dating, what are you hiding while behind your keyboard? What is she hiding behind her keyboard?

As for you statistics about suicide and those who clean up the mess, that's malarky.

Get off the keyboard and get out and meet some people.

God's blessings to you.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Reverend, all I know is I read them somewhere, or maybe learned them in school. Info has changed through the years I know; I'm just quoting what I recall.

I'll have to second Rock's agreement; I understand what you're both trying to tell me, and I can use it, but at the moment, I can't change any possible paradigm without the doctor using the scalpel and easing that pain first.

A man wouldn't ride a canyon on a dying horse, looking for greener pastures (well, today he might, with animal rights) he would put the fellow down and get a new horse. And hopefully that's what this little dissection will do is to re-route some trails so travel's a little smoother when I sober up and find the keys to my double-parked white Arabian.

My problem is not that I'm too trusting - I didn't like a group of people one time, but I acted like they did and blended in - my problem is that my heart's too big and too soft for my own good. When I become a hard-hearted bastage with a heart the size of a pebble like the wise FOGs here ;) then I'll be better suited to do what I set out to do.

I think everyone here has been pretty supportive, Kegan, and I hope that is just the pain talking and that you really don't think that the FOGs are callous just because some may have more life experience than you do.

Sir, I meant that solely as a joke; I basically just mean that those with life experience have indeed weathered storms of life, and they have learned to build their castles on a bed of rock instead of on the sand - some indeed are castles themselves.

(Luke 6:47 - 49; Matthew 7:twenty-four - 27)

I suppose I could break it down if religion were my course of action;

"Let thy heart be not solely chiseled of stone, nor constructed as a child's castle of sand." Both of these items, rock and sand, can be seen as artistic elements that can help convey the God-given beauty of life through their proper usage, be it a sand castle or a marble/stone statue.

In secular terms, put grains sand on one end of a brass balance scale, and rocks on the other. When you have a perfect balance, you should feel better and all will be well.

Callouses are a good thing, shows determination and being thick-skinned and all, but people do need to be open as well, I understand this. And again, no, I meant no harm in my words; I use the word callous as 'hard,' not in a negative sense of the term.

-shrugs- I don't know, just thought it worked :tu and again, no harm intended in my words ;s.

borndead1

12-28-2009, 12:48 AM

Walk away, bro. Too many "red flags" with this girl.

kzm007

12-28-2009, 01:19 AM

Oh no no no, maybe I misspoke somewhere. We won't be dating. I'm going to message her when we're both in higher spirits, and see that my things are mailed out. I emailed the company I bought the picture frame from, but if they can't cancel the order, I'll just keep it, gift it or something.

Lessons learned are often the hardest, but that's life. You take a shot in the dark and hope and pray that bullet goes where it's intended.

RevSmoke

12-28-2009, 07:14 AM

Kegan,

I am not talking about what you do in regard to the items you want to mail out.

I was speaking of your dating future and intimacy. That is all.

Two thinkgs that went into my previous post.

1) My work as a police chaplain and the number of suicides I have had to "pick-up-the-pieces" on.

2) My work with couples and individuals in regard to dating/marriage, the intimacy, factor that is or isn't there, and amzingly, with the police, internet fraud and perversion in dating.

I don't know that your heart is any bigger, or us FOGs have smaller ones (or colder ones). It might simply be an issue of naivete.

hotreds

12-28-2009, 09:10 AM

Keegan- you asked for advice. You got it- pretty much we are of one voice that you need to let these people go. Your attempting to change our minds is not going to work. If you are trying to convince yourself to keep interacting with these people maybe that, too, should be a red flag.

Our advice is free and worth as much. Understand it comes from folks who have lived life for a little longer than you. The old saying is: "If I only knew at 25 what I know at 60." So, again, remove these people from your life- you'll be better off. If you don't want to do this, no amount of cajoling will convince us otherwise. Do what you want, but our advice stands.

Good luck to you.

kzm007

12-28-2009, 09:11 AM

To RevSmoke:

Sir, I know you weren't speaking of the picture frame, that was simply something I was going to do out of kindness, as I said. On second thought, as much as I care for my friends, all of them, money doesn't need to be involved.

I fully realize the intelligence and understanding of the ones before me, and your advice is sound and true.

Obviously, I had no idea of your working background, or your knowledge in the field. Perhaps time has clouded my memory as to the percentage - I just looked on Wikipedia, and was informed suicide leaves at least six survivors...can't find the numbers I quoted though.

I explained above, that my usage of the term 'callous' was not meant in a negative sense. When I think of the term, I think hard, so yes, someone who is callous could be seen as "hard-hearted;" and while that is usually seen as a bad trait, when a person has been hurt or 'burned' in life, and they learn a lesson, sometimes having a 'hard-heart' is a good thing, similar to being "thick-skinned." Does that approach sound a bit more rational?

As I said, I mean no harm in anything I say or have said. I didn't mean any of you were cold, cruel people - far from it, I know. I meant that life experience has toughened you all up, given you callouses borne of hard work and determination to get to where you are today, or what you might have accomplished in earlier times.

In regards to me having a big heart, I didn't mean to infer that mine was any larger, or that I was any kinder than the next person on the board. The soft-heart remark should be taken similarly; where a matured person may take a step back from an issue, those people with softer hearts may indeed be naive, and only see the 'good' in everything and everyone, even if it doesn't exist. Sheer blindness and too trusting, sometimes. Gets people hurt, used, and killed.

Personally, I consider myself a nice guy who's had some bad times, and good times, and am trying to let those keep me level and down-to-earth. I'm a realist I'd like to think, sometimes an optimist, and sometimes a pessimist, but I always try to make informed decisions and do things the right/practical/logical way, stay on neutral ground until it's safe to move.

As for hotreds, I agreed wholeheartedly that dating was a bad idea; the one girl is gone, and the other is just a friend. I'm sorry I didn't make my understanding and agreement evident a few posts ago.

I hope this revision clears things up, and that all wounds are healed. I'm sorry for any slight I may have shown any of you.

Subvet642

12-28-2009, 09:25 AM

kzm007

12-28-2009, 09:47 AM

...So, again, remove these people from your life- you'll be better off. If you don't want to do this, no amount of cajoling will convince us otherwise. Do what you want, but our advice stands.

Good luck to you.

And I agree; people can go through hell and still remain friends - in this case, maybe not, but neither of these individuals is going to affect my life as much as they may have earlier on.

I do understand that, and deep down, I suppose I have for awhile; I always try to see good in people, but at the same time, I can often spot the bad apples (8/10 times we'll say). I was just trying to make things work, you know "if at first you don't succeed...yadda yadda." and at least I can walk away knowing I tried my damnedest to help.

Katie's all right. Given her past, she's done very well, and I'm not worried about our friendship. Mary left of her own free will, so que sera sera.

I've got her address, if anyone wants to send her some Ghurkas :)

shilala

12-28-2009, 10:14 AM

Kegan,
Life and experience and hardship and pain has done just the absolute opposite to me, and many, if not all, of these brothers who stand before you offering their advice and friendship.
All the pain has taught me that the only thing that matters is God, Love, happiness, family, and gratitude.
Learning lessons from bad things are gifts. It keeps my fingers out of the fire.
Learning what matters from those things makes me appreciate every single breath I draw, and I consider each one precious.
That's not "hard-hearted" or "callous" by any definition.
The "thick skin" comes from the "how much does it matter?"
I can't be angry and happy at the same time. Doesn't work that way. I'm not willing to give up one second of happy to be angry, because it's senseless.
Despite that, my stupidity sometimes gets ahold of me and I get pissed off. It doesn't last long. The older I get, the shorter the pissed off gets.
Despite the fact that all these gentlemen know how precious every moment is, they're spending it for you.
That's Love. There's lots here.
I've found that it's a lot easier nowadays to ask before I act. When I ask, I don't ask someone who hasn't been "down that road". You don't go to a banker for a haircut, ya know?
I ask old boys who have done really dumb sh1t (if I haven't already beat them to it), and then do the opposite, just like they've instructed me.
Works like a charm. :tu
It also allows me to quit thinking, because when I do, it always turns out the same.
Just the opposite of the way I want it to. :)
Hope this helps!!!
Scott

PS
You might want to listen to Tom and Todd and Hugh, among others.
I sure would. :tu

kzm007

12-28-2009, 10:28 AM

You're all saying the same thing, and I agreed a long time ago...funny thing is, this thread started because I wanted to know if it was right sending her an expensive picture frame since "I don't know her."

The back story I gave, I was just trying to paint a picture of the kind of girl she is, and how we became the friends that we are. It was only supposed to put things into context so I could get a better decision, and I'm afraid people focused more on the 'issues' the triangle caused, the context itself; yes it did, but I never meant for this thread to be about the emotional baggage, or bad women.
Although, the advice I inadvertently gleaned from people telling repeated is priceless, thank you.

And I'm sorry the first question about the item got lost in the shuffle. That's what happens when you give somebody too much paperwork; sometimes, they skim it. What I mean by that is that details were emphasized that I never meant to be, and I was given advice concerning those details alone. That's where the confusion began, and that's why this thread is three pages :r because I talked too much.

I should have simply asked if giving her such a pricey gift was acceptable, and left her past, and the other girl out of it...but again, I was unsure because I have already done many things for her, as a friend. I thought a fuller story would lead to a fuller decision, you see?

I hope that makes sense now, and thank you all for the help.

Savvy

12-28-2009, 11:02 AM

Even if I was to say that it was ridiculous that you sent an expensive picture frame to a girl you've never met, the fact is that you already sent it, and you can't really take it back.

Not necessarily how I feel about it, but just stating that what's happened has happened, and even if we all told you that it was a terrible idea, you've already done it anyway.

Do what you have to do Kegan. Friends on the internet is fine, I mean we are all a part of a big online forum here, and I'm glad to call many of the people here my friend. But as far as extremely long distance/internationally dating online, my advice is to leave it as just friends. You're 20, and have a lot of time to get out there and meet people. Time better spent than hacking away at a keyboard and not being with someone in person.

So straight up my advice is stay friends if that's what you and she feel is best, but that's about all. Get out there in the world and meet somebody (yeah it takes a little getting used to at first, but that's how everyone else did it before Al Gore invented the internet...). Best of luck Kegan.

shilala

12-28-2009, 11:12 AM

Ashcan Bill

12-28-2009, 11:54 AM

Yeah, you talk too much. Get some weed and Doritos. Go drink too much and puke in your buddy's car. You'll meet chicks and there won't be any need for picture frames.
It works. Just ask the boys. :tu

Ah yes, the old pre-internet courtship rituals. Brings a bit of a tear to my eye just thinking about it. :rolleyes:

shilala

12-28-2009, 02:06 PM

Ah yes, the old pre-internet courtship rituals. Brings a bit of a tear to my eye just thinking about it. :rolleyes:
Seriously, right?
It was a beautiful thing.
I met my new girlfriend in the park. Last one I met in a parking lot. I'm not sure where I met my ex-wife, cause I was drunk. Lots of expensive lessons with that one, but I wouldn't trade it for everything in the world. :)

kzm007

12-28-2009, 02:17 PM

God I love weed...and Doritos xD thanks boys...I think ;)

Me bring flower, ugh

-Drag her by hair back to the man cave-

See, simpler times.

shilala

12-28-2009, 02:24 PM

God I love weed...and Doritos xD thanks boys...I think ;)

Me bring flower, ugh

-Drag her by hair back to the man cave-

See, simpler times.
That's the spirit, kid. Never drag them by their feet, they fill up with rocks. :tu

14holestogie

12-28-2009, 02:39 PM

That's the spirit, kid. Never drag them by their feet, they fill up with rocks. :tu

:r:r

floydpink

12-28-2009, 04:31 PM

:DThat's the spirit, kid. Never drag them by their feet, they fill up with rocks. :tu:D

and always remember that if you stand them on their heads, they all like like sisters. Keeps you from getting too attached.

kzm007

12-28-2009, 07:49 PM

-rimshot-
:r

loki

12-28-2009, 08:22 PM

-rimjob-
:r

tmi man :r

Emjaysmash

12-28-2009, 08:38 PM

tmi man :r

lmao

GreekGodX

12-28-2009, 09:10 PM

Don't send the gift. I've had long distance relationships and I never once sent anything. It means more if you do it in person. If you 2 meet then you can do it. Until then save it. To me she isn't real unless you can see her with your own 2 eyes and then touch her.

kgoings

12-28-2009, 09:40 PM

Internet dating, thats whats wrong with people these days. :rolleyes:

If your serious about a relationship and the interenet is how you meet chicks then check out This Place (www.bridesbymail.com/) they very seldom say no.

kzm007

12-29-2009, 04:51 AM

Oh. lovely. Smart-ass :r

I'll tell you what's wrong with people these days - we need tighter border security, so at least if I did go that route, she'd know English, and I wouldn't need to use a dog whistle or something to train her.

People are more than welcome to be here, all people. Just at least try and learn a country's language if you intend on living there for a lengthy amount of time, even basic conversation skills.

kzm007

12-29-2009, 04:56 AM

tmi man :r

lmao

lmfao...I meant rim shot! Why does that word come up misspelled on this forum, but my mistake didn't :r

kaisersozei

12-29-2009, 09:27 AM

Kegan, it seems like you have a lot of good information and advice already, so I'll withhold my thoughts other than to say that you write very well. :D

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do!

kzm007

12-29-2009, 09:45 AM

Well thanks :) I'm waiting to get shot or something for saying the wrong thing...above word not withstanding :D

And I hope I write well. I was/am an English major for two years, and will continue when I return to school after my surgery - see a related thread.

P.S to loki and Emjay; i did say rimshot the first time...somebody, cough cough, changed it on me ;)

BC-Axeman

12-29-2009, 09:52 AM

I just read this whole thread. All I will say is I think that there was some very good advise given here.
Seems like a little too much "once bit, twice shy". ;)

coastietech

12-29-2009, 09:58 AM

Lots of good advice in this thread... With experience comes wisdom.

After reading all of that I have to say I don't think a relationship is what you n eeed. You need to play the field a little bit.

Oh and if you ever think that someone couldn't come up with a lie that twisted to get stuff from you then your crazy. My ex-wife pretended to have breast cancer in hopes that I would come back out of sympathy. She told her family and even went so far as to take a "trip" to get the "surgery" done. Found out she was lying when she couldn't produce medical records.

ActionAndy

12-29-2009, 10:36 AM

kzm007

12-29-2009, 10:37 AM

kzm007

12-29-2009, 10:49 AM

Not trying to start trouble but America has no official language.

Very true (http://ask.yahoo.com/20011107.html) but we can all agree that it would be English, followed by Spanish - most phone prompts are "press one for English or two for Spanish. if a vote mattered, these make sense, but politics are stupid.

All I mean is, make sure you're able to adapt in some way if you are in a different environment. It will help both parties.

Note the Spanish phrase at the end of my link, which I merely copy/pasted to prove you were right about the language. It means whatever will be, will be - if I recall correctly.

shilala

12-29-2009, 12:22 PM

I'm impressed at her effort, but man, what a female dog exes usually turn out to be.

There are exceptions, though :) I know. Playing the field is what I do most times. I usually get called on it lol damn refs.
I've experienced no less than a dozen girlfriends who immediately became pregnant when I told them I didn't like them anymore.
Literally.
Don't be naive. I'm not at all expressing or implying that about said female in question, just letting you know they can be extremely and delicately evil, and it's not all that uncommon. Goes way, way, way back. ;)
There's a reason why they're so delicious. Otherwise there'd be a bounty on their heads.
That's why when we get lucky enough to find a good one, we hang on to them and quit being dickheads. The good ones are worth it. :tu

kzm007

12-29-2009, 01:31 PM

shilala

12-29-2009, 03:30 PM

Jeez Scott...cynical much? lol

I said the same thing to a guy, how women can be manipulative, and mom heard me. Had a thirty minute car ride with her telling me I lacked tact and consideration.

60% of marriages end in divorce I read somewhere else, and then found it better worded:

"About 60 percent of all marriages that eventually end in divorce do so
within the first 10 years..."

[http://www.divorcereform.org/nyt05.html] (http://www.divorcereform.org/nyt05.html)
I'm not the least bit cynical. Just been there, done that.

I'm a firm believer in True Love, and am riding the wave right now. Took a lot of years and a lot of lessons to learn enough and grow up enough for it to work. It's incredible, beyond words.
I think girls grow out of that kind of crap when they become women, too.
Probably why Mom laid into your ass. :)

coastietech

12-29-2009, 04:44 PM

I'm not the least bit cynical. Just been there, done that.

I'm a firm believer in True Love, and am riding the wave right now. Took a lot of years and a lot of lessons to learn enough and grow up enough for it to work. It's incredible, beyond words.
I think girls grow out of that kind of crap when they become women, too.
Probably why Mom laid into your ass. :)

Bingo!!!

I think every man needs an ex-wife... It shows you how evil woman can be yet teaches you what you will and won't put up with in regards to the future women you date. And when you find the right one after that you are that much smarter and willing to make it work.

And your comment about women growing out of that is spot on. That's why my last girlfriend was 42 and the current gf and hopefully wife is 33. For the record I'm only 26. ;)

kzm007

12-29-2009, 11:25 PM

Holy chit dude...bit of a jump there :r

Weddings are too expensive though, and such a waste of time. Save your money, hit the courthouse for a license if you need one, and go on a nice vacation where you can really learn to connect to each other on all levels.

But, I'm a man. My opinion is worthless.

kzm007

12-29-2009, 11:27 PM

And for the record, none of my relationships have been with women, if you mean maturity :D she had no right to give me that talk. Otherwise, hello Mrs. Robinson lol

shilala

12-30-2009, 02:20 AM

But, I'm a man. My opinion is worthless.
You're gonna need that a lot later. Hang on to that. ;)

kzm007

12-30-2009, 03:27 AM

Hang onto my opinion or my "long thought processes" that help me win arguments? ;)

shilala

12-30-2009, 03:58 AM

Hang onto my opinion or my "long thought processes" that help me win arguments? ;)
Neither.
I've found that no one cares about my opinion unless they've asked for it, and there is no such thing as winning an argument, especially with a woman.
It's always best to just shut up and go get the milk.
I know that sounds absolutely ridiculous. Give it 20 or 30 years, and you'll remember you heard it someday. I promise. :tu

Blueface

12-30-2009, 06:47 AM

there is no such thing as winning an argument, especially with a woman.
It's always best to just shut up and go get the milk.
I know that sounds absolutely ridiculous. Give it 20 or 30 years, and you'll remember you heard it someday. I promise. :tu

Winning an argument with a woman partner.
Hmmmm........
Let me see..........
27 years married.
33 years together overall.
I think I find myself exactly in that range of time you reference.

Scott,
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!

The only argument I have ever won in that time are amongst the ones I have lost, which have been all. While that sounds crazy, when you win, you lose, when you lose, you lose. But once in a blue moon, when you lose, you win.

The other thing I have learned is no matter how right I think I am and how I should stick to my guns, don't. Women hold crap for ages. Men don't. So, the second you get it out of your system, start working on a resolution with her. Be the better person and bow your head in submission. Regardless of how right you are, find what you did wrong and apologize and move on. I assure you it is the secret to a long lasting relationship.

shilala

12-30-2009, 08:54 AM

Blueface

12-30-2009, 09:02 AM

:r
It's the Golden Rule, Carlos...
1.) She's right.
2.) If she's wrong, refer to #1.
Guys will argue about stuff, maybe even fistfight, then forget all about it and buy the guy a beer next time they come around.
Women, not so much. :D
It's not all one sided, either. Lisa is willing to talk to me. She loves me. We laugh. She enjoys my company and can't wait to see me. She thinks the sun rises and sets over me. She thinks I'm awesome.
All that and she's actually known me forever.
It's a real easy trade off. She can win all the time.
Another bonus...
She knows stuff. I ask her questions and get answers. Smart ones that work.
I can't find any reason for individuality anymore. If she and I ain't in it together, we ain't in it. :tu

Sounds like the one for you.
Believe it or not, while my wife and I are very compatible as you state in your case, after all these years, there are still things she doesn't get about me and visa versa.
The key is to work through those minor kinks and avoid losing respect at all cost. Make your point without being offensive. Many want and long for a relationship but just don't know that a relationship means the sacrifice biting your tongue more often than not. I prefer to take it out on you guys here on CA than my wife.:r

yourchoice

12-30-2009, 09:26 AM

Scott and Carlos, a lot of sage advise given. Agree agree agree.

The only thing I will add (for an overall happy marriage/relationship) is do everything you can to not go to bed (meaning sleep :r) angry with one another. This is tough to do 100% of the time, but worth it otherwise. :2
...funny thing is, this thread started because I wanted to know if it was right sending her an expensive picture frame since "I don't know her."

I should have simply asked if giving her such a pricey gift was acceptable, and left her past, and the other girl out of it...but again, I was unsure because I have already done many things for her, as a friend. I thought a fuller story would lead to a fuller decision, you see?

I hope that makes sense now, and thank you all for the help.
Your back story enabled better advise IMO. My advise? No, you shouldn't have sent the expensive frame. As others have said, move on. Find someone who you can interact with face to face, close to home. Starting out on-line is fine...so long as very frequent and personal interaction is possible, and possible sooner rather than later. A very good friend of mine wasted 3 years of his life dealing with a similar long distance, on-line relationship until he finally realized it was pointless. You asked for an opinion, there's mine. :2

I think every man needs an ex-wife... It shows you how evil woman can be yet teaches you what you will and won't put up with in regards to the future women you date. And when you find the right one after that you are that much smarter and willing to make it work.

I couldn't disagree more. My wife and I dated in high school, through college, have now been married eleven years, have two kids and...to be honest with you...I don't think I could be happier. Am I lucky? Damn right, I am. :D

Blueface

12-30-2009, 09:58 AM

My wife and I dated in high school, through college, have now been married eleven years, have two kids and...to be honest with you...I don't think I could be happier. Am I lucky? Damn right, I am. :D

Same here.
I am 50 and she is 49.
We met when I was 17 and she had just turned 16.
Had a brief breakup after our initial six months of dating, that lasted for 6 months also, due to my feuding with her mom and deciding to move on elsewhere.

Aside from what I have commented for my personal relationship success, I think it is important to also NEVER, EVER see it as a solid, secure relationship.
ALWAYS view it as what it is, very fragile. It can fall apart at any moment on any given day. With that in mind, you better understand that in order to not allow it to end, you need to continue to work at it. As I jokingly tell my wife every anniversary now for the past 27 years, "honey, I accept to renew our lease for one more year, for one more day at a time".

MrsSledn

12-30-2009, 10:36 AM

I told her that people that try to date from keyboards have something to hide. There is something about being able to look at someones face as you talk to them that makes things make sense. I agree go local and if the turn you down it was there choice, that doesnt mean there is something wrong with you. It means they dont like that flavor of jelly bean.

I agree with Laura above. And I didn't even read your entire post. My eyes began to hurt after the first couple minutes.

In this day and age with the internet so readily available, I think some rely on it TOO much for certain things. There was life and relationships BEFORE the internet. Heck, marriage and relationship statistics were much better before the internet was in everyone's homes.

I don't know you. But I am sure there are plenty of women where you live. If you feel the need to go to the internet to meet women and never even meet them face to face, then you are opening yourself to all the BS they come with.

replicant_argent

12-30-2009, 10:41 AM

while all the comments on marriage and the "Blueface Principle" are great, I don't think Keegan was going to pursue a relationship with either of these gals....

I hope.

Blueface

12-30-2009, 11:51 AM

while all the comments on marriage and the "Blueface Principle" are great, I don't think Keegan was going to pursue a relationship with either of these gals....

I hope.

True.
I think we digressed a tad.:D

floydpink

12-30-2009, 12:28 PM

while all the comments on marriage and the "Blueface Principle" are great, I don't think Keegan was going to pursue a relationship with either of these gals....

I hope.

Just to make sure I got it right, the "Blueface Principle" states that marriage is like a car lease; you have the option to renew it every few years, right???

Is there a .pdf file of this principle available for download?

Blueface

12-30-2009, 12:42 PM

Just to make sure I got it right, the "Blueface Principle" states that marriage is like a car lease; you have the option to renew it every few years, right???

Is there a .pdf file of this principle available for download?

I wrote the darn manual Pete.:r
Will send you an autographed copy.

MajorCaptSilly

12-30-2009, 12:56 PM

This thread makes me hungry.

MCS

neoflex

12-30-2009, 12:58 PM

I did read your original post but I will admit that I was too lazy to read all 5 pages of replies, but like others have mentioned about your first post there are too many red flags. I apologize if I sound like a douche saying this but it sounds like she is working you. Not sure of the time frame of everything that has happened to her but your post makes it seem fairly recent but that's a whole lot of drama for one person in such a short time frame. Almost like she is tugging at your heart strings and making you feel bad. I could be completely wrong and I have been known to be a bit on the cynical side so I could be way off base with that comment but you have no real way of checking the facts. I did the internet thing many years ago once sort of unintentionally and never again. Girl was super smoking hot and that should have been a red flag out of the gate but she came with a full bag and a chit load of drama. No thank you, gave it a few weeks and ran to the door. Your 20, get out there and meet a local girl. You'll eventually find a good one. Hopefully you don't end up like me and end up having to go through a sea of psychos to find the right one for ya. Sounds to me like you have too much invested already in a girl that is too far away. Go out with your buddies and don't look so hard, and have fun in the meantime. You don't have to marry every one you meet. I apologize to the woman here in advance but remember, for every single woman out there no matter how gorgeous ,there is a man who is sick and tired of her chit.(For the woman, It can work both ways) Go out, Have fun and when you meet the right one you'll know it. Enjoy your youth while you still have it. One day you'll look back and laugh about all of this crap and think to yourself, "What was I thinking."

kzm007

12-30-2009, 08:40 PM

Agreed. And as for the molestation, she was six. And there is proof of it besides her telling me. She listened in on a phone call accidentally one day when I was on MSN - she picked up the phone and her grandfather was talking to his sister about the SOB...it was her godfather of all people. I don't know how long it went on for, but it did happen. I recently used a poor word choice referring to her ordeal and my disability, and it made it seem like I thought mine was more serious. She now hates me of course, told me it was the cruelest thing I've ever said, and she lost all respect for me.

I understand people can move on, but I love this girl, even as a friend, and I really can't stand the thought of losing that. It sickens and breaks me almost as much as what that 70 year old bastage did 14 years ago...he was about 70 then. She recently went in to testify after I tried to reason and maybe convinced her, but her lawyer ended up telling her the evidence was too slim, so the old man won again. She used to love me, deeply, but I tried the local route...a little late in our relationship, she was going to come up a few months ago, but she wouldn't, especially not now. Before it was shyness and insecurity; now it's hatred and disgust.

And people wonder why I'm so depressed any more. I try to save the world I guess. I know I can't, but I try. She's worth trying for. Always will be.

So that's the roughest jist of it, John. The girl from Florida did use me I guess, but Canada did nothing.

If you'll excuse me, I need to go take an anti-depressant that isn't working...seeing the doctor tomorrow...and a painkiller for my back. Thank you all for your support, and may God bless you for it. Somebody needs help somewhere, and its not me in the least. Night.

The other girl? Just a mistake. For the record, the anonymity of a forum is easier than having a therapist stare at me and besides, I don't have the time currently, with physical problems, or the money.