Buying a new laptop- Apple?

[GreekGodX]

I'm in the market for a new laptop. Have had a Dell for the past 5 years and it is time for a new one. In most of my computer experiences they performance goes down after the first year. I've only ever owned Dell computers and used Windows. Not a fan of Windows in any way, just always seemed very buggy. Cost isn't an issue in this as I want to get something that will last a while and not give me many problems...

Step in Apple. I've never really heard bad things about them, but at the same time I don't really know what is so much better about them. My personal experiences with Mac's have been great. Fast startups (from off or sleep mode), easy to use OS, great movie/photo editing, and the trackpad without the buttons is great.

Anybody out there that uses Linux? I've considered this but I don't want to spend a lot of time configuring the new computer. So if anybody could give some input on ease of use and what is out there for it.

I need the laptop for presentations (30%), photo/movie editing (10% of use), internet use (lots of this 45%), and movies/music (15%). I am rarely ever in one spot with a laptop so portability is important. I have a 17 inch screen now but probably will move down to a 15 inch.

I'm 51% sold on the Apple. Is it worth it? or should I be looking at something else?

[elderboy02]

Get a Dell with Windows 7 Professional with at least 4GB of Ram :tu

[Blueface]

This one is going to generate lots of responses going both ways.
I have an Apple MacBook for about two years now and love it.
I don't see myself going back to a PC.
You have highlighted many of the reasons why but more importantly, with the PC, I was always being attacked by worms, viruses and so on. With the Mac, I have yet to ever have any issues.
My only regret is not knowing why I waited so long to finally switch over from PC.

BTW,
You want to know about any program? Go to Apple for an online tutorial video that teaches you.
Don't remember that with any of my PC's in the past. With PC's, you figure it out, find someone to figure it out, or never use it.
Not with Mac.

[smokehouse]

Get an apple Christos. You won't be sorry.

[AD720]

Get an apple Christos. You won't be sorry.

:tpd:


It sounds like you decided.

If you don't like to tinker I wouldn't really recommend Linux. IMHO.

[bazookajoe]

You can have both Windows and OS X on a MacBook using BootCamp. :tu

[68TriShield]

Get a Dell with Windows 7 Professional with at least 4GB of Ram :tu

Celeste and I both just bought new Inspiron Dells.

Windows 7
Power up and down is as fast as I've ever seen Christos.
We are really liking them so far.

[GreekGodX]

Celeste and I both just bought new Inspiron Dells.

Windows 7
Power up and down is as fast as I've ever seen Christos.
We are really liking them so far.

I would love to hear more about Windows 7. I'm not opposed to getting another Windows based computer... I just am kinda sick of windows.

[mariogolbee]

You want to know about any program? Go to Apple for an online tutorial video that teaches you.
Don't remember that with any of my PC's in the past. With PC's, you figure it out, find someone to figure it out, or never use it.
Not with Mac.

I'm with Blueface on everything he said. This point in particular though. You can also attend free workshops or set up appointments for instruction on many if not all of Apple's apps. I was sick of crashing and infected PC's. Haven't had a problem with the Mac.

:tpd:


It sounds like you decided.

If you don't like to tinker I wouldn't really recommend Linux. IMHO.

I was thinking the same thing.

Also, remeber that Mac's come with Bootcamp so you can have Windows still just in case you need it. I have XP on my Mac also as a duel boot and in a virtual machine. There are a few programs through school and games that I need XP for.

[T.G]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/562/motivationalpostermacus.jpg

[pmwz]

dont have any laptop experience but the two apple products that i owned broke just after the warranty ended.

[GreekGodX]

Does anyone know if Apple will be releasing an update to the Macbook Pro anytime soon?? Obviously Windows 7 came out recently so no changes on that front.

[mosesbotbol]

Don't buy a Mac. Unless you are hardware obessed or have deep pockets, it's not worth it.

Make sure it is at least 2.1 GHZ, 64 bit processor and 16 GB of RAM minimum. Windows 7 Pro has 192GB max RAM in x64, so go nuts. Try adding 16 or 32 GB RAM in a MAC... Expensive I bet.

[JaKaacH]

:r:r
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5WSiqTwxN8s/R-tIdNtrPCI/AAAAAAAAALc/UhQEMLxpZ_M/s1600/macvspc2.jpg

[Smokin Gator]

I've been a Mac user since '89 and hate it when I have to us a PC. They just work!!!

[Titan410]

I went to a Macbook in October 08 and never looking back.
You really don't hear anyone say they tried a Mac but prefer a PC, at least I haven't.

[68TriShield]

I would love to hear more about Windows 7. I'm not opposed to getting another Windows based computer... I just am kinda sick of windows.
I would let you test drive it if I could. Very fast from start up to access. Access meaning anywhere you want to go. My youngest has a gaming pc with Vista.
Even after a good friend and botl(I.T. guy)lopped a good amount of BS off the system,it still is nowhere near as easy and pleasing to navigate as this 7.

Kind in mind this is coming from a computer idiot <---

[Wanger]

I've used PCs for years. Then in the last yea3, we bught an older iMac from a friend. It was still lightning fast and runs very smoothly. We liked it so much we bought a MacBook toom. My wife uses it exclusively. The functionaloty and ease of use of the programs is awesome. I honestly don't think we'll go back to PCs. Yes they are pricier, but my experiences with them tell me it's worth it.

[Blueface]

:r:r
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5WSiqTwxN8s/R-tIdNtrPCI/AAAAAAAAALc/UhQEMLxpZ_M/s1600/macvspc2.jpg

Very apropos.
Secure, safe on the left.
Dangerous, bound to crash on the right.

I have yet to find a person that switched to a Mac from a PC that didn't love it.
Seems the haters are the ones that have never switched and need to justify not doing so somehow.

[GreekGodX]

I would let you test drive it if I could. Very fast from start up to access. Access meaning anywhere you want to go. My youngest has a gaming pc with Vista.
Even after a good friend and botl(I.T. guy)lopped a good amount of BS off the system,it still is nowhere near as easy and pleasing to navigate as this 7.

Kind in mind this is coming from a computer idiot <---

Oh come on Dave! You don't want to just ship me your laptop for a week ;)

Let me know more when you start getting more use out of it. Even if you are a computer idiot, I appreciate any feedback. I'm no Bill Gates either :tu

[JaKaacH]

Very apropos.
Secure, safe on the left.
Dangerous, bound to crash on the right.

I have yet to find a person that switched to a Mac from a PC that didn't love it.
Seems the haters are the ones that have never switched and need to justify not doing so somehow.

I'm not a hater. I just can't justify spending twice as much on a Mac to solve problems I have never encountered with a PC.

Seems the PC haters are the ones that have switched and need to justify doing so somehow. Two way street.:r

[Blueface]

I'm not a hater. I just can't justify spending twice as much on a Mac to solve problems I have never encountered with a PC.

Seems the PC haters are the ones that have switched and need to justify doing so somehow. Two way street.:r

Touche.:r

No regrets here.
Still paying for it two years later but no regrets.
I had many crashes due to viruses on PCs. That, coupled with minimal tutorials to assist turned me away.
iPhoto and iMovie sold me on my Mac for my purposes. iDVD was just the icing on the cake.

[cort]

I just made the switch 2 weeks ago. I love my new Mac. I actually got my old PC running again with a new hard drive because the old one took a sh!t on me. I dont hate the PC but the Mac is so much more user friendly. As for the price difference....you get what you pay for.

[King James]

if you can swing for it get the macbook. switched to apple 5 years ago and haven't regretted it since.

And there is no reason you would ever need 16GB of ram from what you said you will be using it for, Christos.

and if you buy your ram from crucial and don't have apple install it, its not expensive at all :tu

[Blueface]

if you can swing for it get the macbook. switched to apple 5 years ago and haven't regretted it since.

And there is no reason you would ever need 16GB of ram from what you said you will be using it for, Christos.

and if you buy your ram from crucial and don't have apple install it, its not expensive at all :tu

I listened to all of you guys and did this and upgraded mine for around $40.

[spectrrr]

First thing: DON'T GET LINUX. Nothing wrong with it, but if you have to ask, the answer is always NO.

Now on to the fun stuff. Despite the obvious humor in the picture below, this is by far the most accurate way to describe things, and REALLY should guide your decision Christo. This post is a bit long because I tend to ramble, but I think you'll get the idea.

I'm not a hater of the fruit, I grew up on PCs and I worked in the photo & journalism industry for three years and used macs extensively during that time.

What I will tell you is this: It sounds like you should get a Mac. You would probably be pretty happy with Windows 7 (I won't discourage you), but it sounds like mac is the better way to go for you, based on the things that you have listed that you need the laptop for. You will pay a bit more than you should, BUT complaining about that is like complaining that you went to Saks Fifth Avenue and paid too much --> don't like it, shop elsewhere, you knew the price going in.

NOW that I've told you to get a mac and established that I'm not a hater.... I'll say that I will NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances, get a Mac for myself.

And here's where the fun begins.... to really evaluate the difference between a mac and a pc with as little bias as possible, you have to be honest with yourself, keep from being unnecessarily offended, and separate things out.

The analogy in the picture, if you can not be offended by it, is stunningly accurate. Ridding a motorcycle is not for everybody. If I asked a guy whether he was qualified and possessed the skills required to race a Ducati motorcycle at 150mph+, he would probably say no (although he sure as hell would want to!). This is not saying that he's stupid, its just saying that racing that thing requires a very specific skill set that many people do not have. Far too often in the mac versus pc debate, it becomes a matter of "well, you're just not smart enough to operate a PC". But this is not true. It has nothing to do with intelligence, so don't get offended!

It has everything to do with what YOU need and want, and whether you have the skills to do it. Racing a bike at 150mph is fun (for some)! BUT its NOT free! If you're not willing pay for regular maintenance on that bike, and get it tuned up and running properly, and put the time into learning how to ride it safely at 150mph, THEN you shouldn't own the bike!!!!

If you DON'T know how to ride a motorcycle or want to invest the time and money to keep it tuned at peak performance, and just want the damned thing to WORK every time you turn it on, then buy something that does what it's designed for. To switch to cars, I own and love my Jeep. I don't complain that's its slow, I relish that it has 4x4 and owns the road in the winter. If I wanted a fast zippy car, then I'd go buy a sports car, with the understanding that there was a trade-off in that I might have trouble the next time a snowplow came by.

OK, so I've said the same thing three or four different way and rambled on long enough... I think you get the idea. Two different products, two different uses & users, and a whole hell of a lot of people that can't understand that last bit without getting offended. I learned PC and learned it good. This required time, effort, and a few bruises & injuries along the way. As a result of that investment, I get to enjoy the performance of my 150mph supertuned (overclocked) Ducati, virus free and purring like a champ.

oh yeah, and :tpd:, don't get the memory upgrade from Apple, get it separate.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5WSiqTwxN8s/R-tIdNtrPCI/AAAAAAAAALc/UhQEMLxpZ_M/s1600/macvspc2.jpg

[JE3146]

You can have both Windows and OS X on a MacBook using BootCamp. :tu

I say go with this.

The Macbook Pro hardware is impressive. I love mine.

I do miss Windows on occasion(specifically minor irritations with OS X) and putting it on there with Bootcamp is the best of both worlds imo.

:tu

[JE3146]

I'm not a hater. I just can't justify spending twice as much on a Mac to solve problems I have never encountered with a PC.

Seems the PC haters are the ones that have switched and need to justify doing so somehow. Two way street.:r

I got mine with a huge student discount and a free ~250GB Ipod Classic plus a free printer which I sold for about 75$.

All in all, I was out the door with a 13" Macbook Pro with OS X 10.6 /w 4GB of RAM and a new Ipod Classic for 980$.

So for me, the price was justified, because I couldn't get anything similar from a PC in the price bracket, but then again I'm a student :D

[GreekGodX]

Well I have a friend that works at the apple store. So he is willing to give me his discount for a laptop. It will save me at least 15%, possibly more. I'm prepared to pay the prices of Apple.

Great way to put everything Francis :tu big help for sure. I'm just wondering if I should wait more and play around with windows 7. Between my brother and my Father one of them should be getting it on their laptops/desktop shortly.

[Veritas]

I have both platforms in my household and use both. I prefer the Windows machines for almost everything. There are never any issues with compatibility, things simply run as installed. The only advantage of the Mac is that they are very easy to learn. Navigation is relatively simple once you figure it out, but no easier than using Windows Explorer. I agree with the others about the quality of Apple's online tutorials. Microsoft simply doesn't have any thing that can compete.

I had many crashes due to viruses on PCs
I have never encountered a virus that penetrated my firewall and defeted my anti-virus software. Keeping both updated is of vital importance to anyone running Windows. I'm running Windows 7 now and it has a self-contained security suite (Microsoft Security Essentials). Microsoft know that the vast majority of the virus writers are targeting their software so they seem to be doing something about it. Malicious coders target the most users they can - hence Windows machines, not Macs. Now with the proliferation of the iPhone there have been viruses written specifically to target them. If Apple succeeds in getting a bigger slice of the pie, coders will begin writing viruses/trojans/worms for OS-X.

iPhoto and iMovie sold me on my Mac for my purposes. iDVD was just the icing on the cake.
Windows Live Photo and Movie Maker programs have very similar functionality and are equally easy to use. Again, Apple will hold your hand through every step of using the software where Microsoft will not. The help features are there, you just have to dig to find the answers.

I cannot think of one area where the Mac outperforms the Windows (7) machine to the degree that justifies paying more than double. Macs are easy. Windows has a steeper learning curve. The decision is yours. My advice is to find a quality machine running 7 and give it a spin.

[Wanger]

if you can swing for it get the macbook. switched to apple 5 years ago and haven't regretted it since.

And there is no reason you would ever need 16GB of ram from what you said you will be using it for, Christos.

and if you buy your ram from crucial and don't have apple install it, its not expensive at all :tu

I agree with getting your memory from Crucial. (http://www.crucial.com) Of course, I'm a bit biased, because I used to work for the manufacturing portion of the business: Micron. :p

[GreekGodX]

I cannot think of one area where the Mac outperforms the Windows (7) machine to the degree that justifies paying more than double. Macs are easy. Windows has a steeper learning curve. The decision is yours. My advice is to find a quality machine running 7 and give it a spin.

What would be a quality machine? I'm not crazy about Dell. Sony? Lenovo? HP? Toshiba?

[Veritas]

What would be a quality machine? I'm not crazy about Dell. Sony? Lenovo? HP? Toshiba?
That is another feature of the Mac that outdoes Windows - only Apple makes them, so there isn't anything to compare them to other than themselves.

For simplicity, I usually buy off-the-shelf HP machines. I have had several and have been satisfied with all of them. The key is more in the components than the manufacturer. Almost all of the manufacturers make a very wide variety of machines. Prior to any purchases, I research the current (read - next week's obsolete) processors and compare them. I'm not currently in the market, so I don't have the specs an what's available now.

Check with one of the geeks in the computer store (MicroCenter is my favorite - they seem to know their products). As long as the processor is a mid to high end one and the machine has sufficient RAM, you should be OK. The other components (video processor, sound, etc) usually are on-par with the processor.

[elderboy02]

...
Windows 7
Power up and down is as fast as I've ever seen Christos.
We are really liking them so far.

:tpd:

I can't believe how fast the startup and shutdown is.

[GWN]

Since 1986 I have always used a Mac, just so my allegiance is clearly stated.
Like others have said, I would recommend a Mac based on what you plan to use it for.
I also have windows 7 installed on my imac at home and, from what I've seen, it is a solid OS.
The beauty of having a Mac is you can run both.

[DrDubzz]

Get this, or something like it
http://www.amazon.com/N61VN-A1-16-Inch-Versatile-Entertainment-Windows/dp/B002P3KMQM/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I14RMMC6EV1B9K&colid=106Y6QZEHK8CX

[JE3146]

I have never encountered a virus that penetrated my firewall and defeted my anti-virus software. Keeping both updated is of vital importance to anyone running Windows. I'm running Windows 7 now and it has a self-contained security suite (Microsoft Security Essentials). Microsoft know that the vast majority of the virus writers are targeting their software so they seem to be doing something about it. Malicious coders target the most users they can - hence Windows machines, not Macs. Now with the proliferation of the iPhone there have been viruses written specifically to target them. If Apple succeeds in getting a bigger slice of the pie, coders will begin writing viruses/trojans/worms for OS-X.



Which is why even on OS X I run an antivirus. :tu

And FYI people would be amazed at how many viruses, worms, trojans. etc are currently out there... directly targeting OS X.

Fraction of whats out there for PC's? Sure, but it only takes one to F up your system :)

[JaKaacH]

I got mine with a huge student discount and a free ~250GB Ipod Classic plus a free printer which I sold for about 75$.

All in all, I was out the door with a 13" Macbook Pro with OS X 10.6 /w 4GB of RAM and a new Ipod Classic for 980$.

So for me, the price was justified, because I couldn't get anything similar from a PC in the price bracket, but then again I'm a student :D

Miller Lite is fine. :al

[spectrrr]

What would be a quality machine? I'm not crazy about Dell. Sony? Lenovo? HP? Toshiba?

Yes to the above really. Good and bad equipment from all of them. More important, yes to THE ABOVE. Add in Acer and Asus. Point of the matter, Stay the hell away from off brands. KEY POINT, talk to a tech guy.

I was shopping today fora new computer for my shipping bench. browsing two different sites. One of them had good machines... the other (same brands) had shitty machines. And by shity, I don't mean unreliable, I mean under spec'd and guaranteed that whoever buys it will HATE his life. For example, a Vista machine with only 1gb of ram. That's damned near criminal IMO.....



Oh and PS: I don't use A/V on my windows box. Gotten one virus in the last 4 years....

[JE3146]

Miller Lite is fine. :al

One of these days :r .....

[DrDubzz]

Check out Asus laptops before you make a decision. The one I linked above has 4GB DDR3 RAM, 320GB 7200rpm HDD, 2.0Ghz Core2Quad, Nvidia dedicated GPU (forget which one, but it's a pretty good one) with 1GB dedicated video RAM, 16 inch 720p display for 11xx bucks.

[Titan410]

The ad is clever but inaccurate.
A Mac can do anything a PC can since you can install Windows on the Mac if you wish. A Macbooks LED screen, aluminum unibody construction etc. is superior in every way.

[Blueface]

The ad is clever but inaccurate.
A Mac can do anything a PC can since you can install Windows on the Mac if you wish. A Macbooks LED screen, aluminum unibody construction etc. is superior in every way.

Big points you make there.
You cannot compare the construction of a MacBook to any other PC based laptop. The quality of the MacBook is far, far superior.

When folks speak of price, it is all relative. A Yugo can get you down the street just as well as a BMW. Me? I rather be in the BMW. Others may prefer the Yugo (although the likelihood of making it down the street in a Yugo is slim to none).

To relate it to the this board, some prefer a Cohiba, some prefer three or four different cigars for the same price of the Cohiba.

With any of these examples, you simply get what you pay for.

[mosesbotbol]

You cannot compare the construction of a MacBook to any other PC based laptop. The quality of the MacBook is far, far superior.

Well, I'd say in general Apple's hardware is executed to a high level and that is their best attribute. I do not think it fair to say that no PC based laptop has the construction of an Apple.

In terms of ruggedness, I would put a ThinkPad "T Series" against any Apple product for the long haul. In terms of materials and nice touches; every major brand has a laptop that has nice tactile feel and features, but they are prices to Apple. Somethings are just gonna cost...

[VirtualSmitty]

A Mac can do anything a PC can since you can install Windows on the Mac if you wish. A Macbooks LED screen, aluminum unibody construction etc. is superior in every way.

Well, as long as you don't like to game, don't like upgrading your computing (ram is about it and even thats out on the unibody macs), don't mind not having the ability to switch out your battery, and don't mind paying for specs that would cost much less on a windows machine, then yes I guess it's superior.

[King James]

ram is about it and even thats out on the unibody macs

:confused:

you can upgrade your RAM on a unibody

[68TriShield]

:confused:

you can upgrade your RAM on a unibody

I believe he meant, no you can't Jim.

[VirtualSmitty]

:confused:

you can upgrade your RAM on a unibody

Your right you can, my bad ;s

My other points still stand though. RAM and hard drive is it, can't upgrade the gpu :(

[357]

Well I'm a Windows Server Administrator so I'm a little biased, but the decision should be based on your intentions.

If you want to pay more for a single button mouse, that cool logo on the lid, and more than anything you want everyone to know you paid more, then by all means get the Mac. You will get about twice the hardware specs out of a non-Mac branded laptop for the price. The funny thing? Macs use an Intel based architecture so you can take a non-Mac branded laptop and install Max OS X. So, if you really want the GUI/OS then buy something for half price and install the Mac OS. Many people don't know this or are unwilling to jump through the hoops. Yet more people who buy Macs want he prestige of "the best" so they pay double for that cool logo.

Overall the tricycle/crotch-rocket analogy is fairly accurate. Any simpleton can use a Mac. Bill Gates got rich creating a psuedo Mac-like interface for IBM clones. If you can handle a PC you'll get much more out of it. The best part about PCs is how you can modify them and make them you're own. You can tweak the hell out of Windows to make it do whatever you want. The same is simply not true of Macs.

That said the numbers are undeniable. Apple computers makes up less than 10% of the PC market. Probably around 6-8%. Windows is 90% and Linux/Other makes up the rest. Most software is not written to run on both Windows and Macs. If you know of a software title that is written for both then comes the fun task of finding it.

IMO, get a decent name brand laptop with 4GB of RAM, 300GB+ Hard Drive NVidia/Radeon Video Card with Windows 7 x64. You can find that for less than $800. Windows 7 x64 comes with XP compatiblity mode just in case you have some old crappy application that won't run in Win 7 x64. You can install the app in compatibility mode, then run it from the Start Menu. It runs in a seemless VirtualPC Window that looks as if it is running natively in Win7. From my testing Windows 7 uses about 800-900MB less RAM at bootup/idle than Vista does. It is more stable and efficient. I've been very impressed so far.

And, just for fun...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/357magnum/joke/mac2.jpg

[King James]

Your right you can, my bad ;s

My other points still stand though. RAM and hard drive is it, can't upgrade the gpu :(

yup. if customizing beyond that is what you want to do, Apple is not the right choice.

[JE3146]

Who buys a laptop to upgrade components other than the RAM and hard drive?

If people want a GPU, buy a desktop PC. I just don't understand the fascination with playing games on laptops.

Laptops are disposable items. Desktops are not.

[JaKaacH]

Big points you make there.
You cannot compare the construction of a MacBook to any other PC based laptop. The quality of the MacBook is far, far superior.

When folks speak of price, it is all relative. A Yugo can get you down the street just as well as a BMW. Me? I rather be in the BMW. Others may prefer the Yugo (although the likelihood of making it down the street in a Yugo is slim to none).

To relate it to the this board, some prefer a Cohiba, some prefer three or four different cigars for the same price of the Cohiba.

With any of these examples, you simply get what you pay for.

Ohh the ole BMW/Yugo coparision...I forgot that one..:D
A Cadillac will get me down the same street at half the $$$ of the BMW and still beat the heck out of a Yugo.
With any of these examples, you simply get what you pay for. But does that mean if you spend more you always get better???
Will the guy with the more expensive (gun, golf clubs, rods-reels-lures, etc) always out perform the guy with the good but less expensive "hardware".?
I've been on jobs with my Craftsman tools, while the Snap-On guy is sitting at home wondering when he will work again.
Will that $1000.00 Dunhill pipe smoke better than a $100.00 Savinelli, maybe, but 10 times better..??
Does the Green and Yellow John Deere really cut grass better than the cheaper Cub Cadet..?
Just saying that there are often products in all areas, where you are paying more just for the name.
Cigars, coffee, whiskey, pipe tobacco are the exception, taste is subjective, I have smoked/tasted expensive cigars, coffee, whiskey that I liked and some that I did not like. Same with the less expensive items some I liked and some not so much.

[VirtualSmitty]

Who buys a laptop to upgrade components other than the RAM and hard drive?

If people want a GPU, buy a desktop PC. I just don't understand the fascination with playing games on laptops.

Laptops are disposable items. Desktops are not.

I do! There's a market for laptop gamers. I've torn my laptop apart a couple of times to upgrade the gpu and wireless card. I travel a lot and like to be able to game a bit while i'm on the road stuck in some airport or hotel. It's not as good as my desktop but it gets the job done and helps me kill my down time on the road.

[Volt]

Hate to tell ya Jordan, many who can't afford both are going with laptops capable of gaming. While not in this discussion, I juast saw my first Alienware laptop, it a gotta have for me. Absolutly sick fast on Windows 7 and a real keyboard built in, not the silly little wafer keys. Woof!

Who buys a laptop to upgrade components other than the RAM and hard drive?

If people want a GPU, buy a desktop PC. I just don't understand the fascination with playing games on laptops.

Laptops are disposable items. Desktops are not.

[JE3146]

Hate to tell ya Jordan, many who can't afford both are going with laptops capable of gaming. While not in this discussion, I juast saw my first Alienware laptop, it a gotta have for me. Absolutly sick fast on Windows 7 and a real keyboard built in, not the silly little wafer keys. Woof!

Then get a desktop and a netbook ;)

Laptops are dependent on batteries. GPU's, screens, 7200RPM drives, even RAM suck the life out of them.

Blows me away when people show up to a 3 hour class with a 17" laptop that breaths fire and find themselves 5 feet shy of a plugin, then drain a full cycle before the class is half over. That is a useless tool.

Portability shouldn't be governed by plug-ins ;) That defeats the purpose of a laptop entirely.

[357]

Then get a desktop and a netbook ;)

Laptops are dependent on batteries. GPU's, screens, 7200RPM drives, even RAM suck the life out of them.

Blows me away when people show up to a 3 hour class with a 17" laptop that breaths fire and find themselves 5 feet shy of a plugin, then drain a full cycle before the class is half over. That is a useless tool.

Portability shouldn't be governed by plug-ins ;) That defeats the purpose of a laptop entirely.

Simply adjusting the screen brightness will cut your power usage by 30-40%. The setting is usually a simple FN-Hotkey. Works fine for my work laptop when I need to be on battery for any length of time.

[JE3146]

Simply adjusting the screen brightness will cut your power usage by 30-40%. The setting is usually a simple FN-Hotkey. Works fine for my work laptop when I need to be on battery for any length of time.

As it does for mine as well.

[spectrrr]

get a little netbook for class, problem solved, and your back will thank you :tu

[Blueface]

Ohh the ole BMW/Yugo coparision...I forgot that one..:D
A Cadillac will get me down the same street at half the $$$ of the BMW and still beat the heck out of a Yugo.
With any of these examples, you simply get what you pay for. But does that mean if you spend more you always get better???
Will the guy with the more expensive (gun, golf clubs, rods-reels-lures, etc) always out perform the guy with the good but less expensive "hardware".?
I've been on jobs with my Craftsman tools, while the Snap-On guy is sitting at home wondering when he will work again.
Will that $1000.00 Dunhill pipe smoke better than a $100.00 Savinelli, maybe, but 10 times better..??
Does the Green and Yellow John Deere really cut grass better than the cheaper Cub Cadet..?
Just saying that there are often products in all areas, where you are paying more just for the name.
Cigars, coffee, whiskey, pipe tobacco are the exception, taste is subjective, I have smoked/tasted expensive cigars, coffee, whiskey that I liked and some that I did not like. Same with the less expensive items some I liked and some not so much.

To some, you are paying for just a name.
To others, they are getting what they are paying for.

I prefer the BMW, so I own one. I do, cause I can. Sure, I could have done just as well with a Solara convertible. I chose the BMW. We can talk all day about how both get you down the street, but trust me, I look better in mine and that is what I paid for. Not to mention, there is a small thing called performance.

Bad example on the Snap On. What you pay for there, aside from the quality, is the "come to you" anywhere you are for service and sales. With the Craftsman, which I own plenty of, you have to jump in the car and go to Sears. In that case, since I don't need them delivered to my door, yeah, Craftsman is the way to go.

To some, they wear a $10 t-shirt. I like Ed Hardy. Sure, I can get ten of the $10 ones for one of my Ed Hardy. However, I bet I will look better.

When we remodeled our master bath, sure, tiles would have sufficed and been cheaper. Wife wanted marble. Cost a whole lot more. To her, that made all the difference in the world. I made her happy, she makes me happy in turn.

With the Mac, my reasons were a whole lot different.
I was tired of crashes. I was tired of viruses. I was tired of a system/companies that wiped their butts with you once you bought it and you had to be resourceful to figure it all out. Apple makes it easy and Apple doesn't leave you out in the street. They proved that to me with the way they resolved my initial issues and the way I can get any support video of any kind that I may need to learn any aspect of their device of operating system. To some, not needed. To me, was worth a whole lot more than I paid.

The analogy of why pay more can be made with anything. Value is what the person whose wallet is paying for it perceives it. All a matter of what side of the fence you are on.

[newcigarz]

Mac, 'nuf said.

[GreekGodX]

With the Mac, my reasons were a whole lot different.
I was tired of crashes. I was tired of viruses. I was tired of a system/companies that wiped their butts with you once you bought it and you had to be resourceful to figure it all out. Apple makes it easy and Apple doesn't leave you out in the street. They proved that to me with the way they resolved my initial issues and the way I can get any support video of any kind that I may need to learn any aspect of their device of operating system. To some, not needed. To me, was worth a whole lot more than I paid.

The analogy of why pay more can be made with anything. Value is what the person whose wallet is paying for it perceives it. All a matter of what side of the fence you are on.

This is exactly how I feel. Owning other apple products (ipods) their customer service is fantastic and not from India (damn dell :mad). My limited use on friends Apple laptops and the Apple desktops at school has been great. I just want to make the best and most educated decision.

Mac, 'nuf said.

Possibly the answer. Anybody here run OS X on a windows laptop/desktop? This could be a very interesting option.

[JE3146]

This is exactly how I feel. Owning other apple products (ipods) their customer service is fantastic and not from India (damn dell :mad). My limited use on friends Apple laptops and the Apple desktops at school has been great. I just want to make the best and most educated decision.



Possibly the answer. Anybody here run OS X on a windows laptop/desktop? This could be a very interesting option.

I've seen it on netbooks.

There was a thread recently (within the past 3 months) in the GD about it.

[T.G]

This is exactly how I feel. Owning other apple products (ipods) their customer service is fantastic and not from India (damn dell :mad).

FWIW, Gateway support is still in the US - it has never left the country AFAIK.



Possibly the answer. Anybody here run OS X on a windows laptop/desktop? This could be a very interesting option.

Yeah, toyed with it a few years ago. Royal PITA. Simpler to just buy a Mac and run bootcamp if thats what you want (not as cheap, but much less headaches). Maybe things have gotten better since then but still not worth it to me.

[AD720]

Possibly the answer. Anybody here run OS X on a windows laptop/desktop? This could be a very interesting option.

Posting from a Dell Mini 9 running a fully patched, retail, vanilla version of OS 10.5.8 Leopard. :D

[GreekGodX]

Posting from a Dell Mini 9 running a fully patched, retail, vanilla version of OS 10.5.8 Leopard. :D

any complaints? I kinda want more details then that, please :)

[AD720]

any complaints? I kinda want more details then that, please :)

None. It does what it does. It's a netbook, so small screen, no optical drive, not a super-powerful computer but it's great for surfing the web, email and it is incredibility portable. I will say that OS X runs much better on this than XP or Linux (Ubuntu) did.

There are other machines that will run OS X but none as seamlessly as the Dell Mini series.

[WyoBob]

Something no one has mentioned---didn't I read here on CA that Apple won't work on computer's owned by smokers as they consider the smoke residue a "bio hazard"?

[Doctorossi]

Get yourself a MacBook Pro and you'll never look back. Computing heaven! :tu

[VirtualSmitty]

Portability shouldn't be governed by plug-ins ;) That defeats the purpose of a laptop entirely.

Your opinion entirely, not fact. You may feel having a high powered laptop is waste, but I don't. And I don't consider my laptop a disposable asset, my netbook maybe, but not a laptop that cost over 1k. Maybe when the day comes that i'm making JE3146 money i'll look at it differently, and a grand won't mean so much to me lol. And netbooks are great, but too small and underpowered to do serious work.

My best advice is to go to a Best Buy or some other place that has demo machines and play with a win7 machine. It sounds like you already know macs to some extend, but if not go hit up the kiosk in Best Buy or your nearest apple store. Try them both out, weigh the costs, and pick what you like. I use a mac and a win7 pc everyday, and my netbook runs linux. Each has a different use, but I can't say that I like one over the other. Each has things I like and dislike about it, it just boils down to personal preference.

[Knip23]

I would say go with a Dell, or a Toshiba, bc if you decide to later on down the road you need a better grafics card or processer you can change it out with the Toshiba, no other lap top company is doing that yet. and it will cost you about the same as a Apple

[shilala]

I do lots of stuff, video and photo editing, play games, overclock, build my own systems, all that sort of stuff.
I run Windows XP on all my stuff.
I've been a windows developer partner since '99. Vista sucked ass from day one.
I just got done with Windows 7, and the DRM issues were never-ending.
If I ever changed operating systems from Windows XP, which I probably never will until the hardware runs past it, then I'll look at Leopard or Linux.
I'm pretty much Bill Gates'd out.
I have never for a second considered a Mac, because it meets none of my needs.
In the future, it may. The tricycle/motorcycle representation pretty much says it all.
Add to that Mac is overwhelmingly overpriced, and it's a tough call.
It really depends who you are and what you're willing to learn.
My only issue now is Digital Rights Management. I don't want an OS that doesn't let me do what I want to do the way I want to do it. Apple is free of that crap.
I think Apple is headed in the direction I want to see happen for me.
Windows isn't.
Google is coming.
I'm glad I don't have to make your decision, Christos.
Honestly, you can't go wrong either way for what you want to do, regardless of what fanboi's like myself might say. Buy what makes you happy. You'll be happy with it. :tu
I'd stay away from the airbooks with no optical drive though. You'll have to drag around a sidearm dvd/cd burner, and that'll suck. Big time.

[GreekGodX]

Decisions, Decisions ugh!! :mad:

I might just wait until my current laptop really runs into the ground. Perhaps by then Apple will come out with something new and Windows 7 will have some more reviews/be more stable. I appreciate the help. Keep it coming :tu

I'll probably take whatever money I get for the laptop and buy cigars :ss

[gvarsity]

You can have both Windows and OS X on a MacBook using BootCamp. :tu

As long as you are not doing anything taking significant advantage of the onboard video processing primarily new graphically intensive games you can run Windows in an emulator like Vmware Fusion or Parallels and have the best of both worlds simultaneously without having to boot into bootcamp. Many of the games you can run on boot camp. Essentially anything but the most high end games. You can also run a linux virtual machine on either of the emulators as well.

If money is not an option Macs tend to be more future proof than PC's. Meaning they last longer before they are obsolete. My wife is still using a five year old MacbookPro and for photo editing, internet, email, documents etc... 95% of what she does on a computer it is holding up fine with just a memory upgrade. We did end up upgrading her machine only because I had one come to me through work.

If money is a concern pc's definitely are better bang for buck. Also for people used to windows there is no reason to retrain them to a new OS.

There is not a "right" answer just whatever works for you.

[JE3146]

Your opinion entirely, not fact. You may feel having a high powered laptop is waste, but I don't. And I don't consider my laptop a disposable asset, my netbook maybe, but not a laptop that cost over 1k. Maybe when the day comes that i'm making JE3146 money i'll look at it differently, and a grand won't mean so much to me lol. And netbooks are great, but too small and underpowered to do serious work.

My best advice is to go to a Best Buy or some other place that has demo machines and play with a win7 machine. It sounds like you already know macs to some extend, but if not go hit up the kiosk in Best Buy or your nearest apple store. Try them both out, weigh the costs, and pick what you like. I use a mac and a win7 pc everyday, and my netbook runs linux. Each has a different use, but I can't say that I like one over the other. Each has things I like and dislike about it, it just boils down to personal preference.


:r if only you knew how much money I make right now ;) (I'll give you a hint.. I'm a student)

In my career, a laptop is a tool, so I treat it as such. I apologize if my view like that offends, but it's no different than a toolbox to a mechanic.

In regards to serious work that depends on the work. I can do more with a command line than most can do with a GUI.

Command lines don't need much horsepower :D ... typically.. but if that's the case, I'll utilize my server for processing power.

But it will all boil down to your needs of a laptop, which I understand.. but from my point of view and my opinion. That's what a laptop is and should be capable of. Heck I find gaming on a PC overrated now as well. I'll take a console, a comfy couch and a large flatscreen over a desk chair that I sit in far too much as it is already.

[357]

Decisions, Decisions ugh!! :mad:

I'll probably take whatever money I get for the laptop and buy cigars :ss

This is probably the best decision. I don't think there will be much debate about that.

[bazookajoe]

As long as you are not doing anything taking significant advantage of the onboard video processing primarily new graphically intensive games you can run Windows in an emulator like Vmware Fusion or Parallels and have the best of both worlds simultaneously without having to boot into bootcamp. Many of the games you can run on boot camp. Essentially anything but the most high end games. You can also run a linux virtual machine on either of the emulators as well...

Agreed. Emulators have the convenience of access without rebooting - in my case I need to run AutoCad and Solidworks so I prefer the performance of Windows 7 in Bootcamp.

[357]

Agreed. Emulators have the convenience of access without rebooting - in my case I need to run AutoCad and Solidworks so I prefer the performance of Windows 7 in Bootcamp.

Personally I don't get this. If I needed CPU/RAM intensive Windows only apps I wouldn't buy a Mac. Please give me an example of someone needing a Mac only app for their Windows box so bad that they dual boot.


I expect nothing but crickets because so few apps actually exist.


I will continue beating the Windows drum

BTW...resistance is futile you will all be assimilated.

[JE3146]

Personally I don't get this. If I needed CPU/RAM intensive Windows only apps I wouldn't buy a Mac. Please give me an example of someone needing a Mac only app for their Windows box so bad that they dual boot.


I expect nothing but crickets because so few apps actually exist.


I will continue beating the Windows drum

BTW...resistance is futile you will all be assimilated.

I utilize a lot of UNIX programs with the comfort of a stable OS that I don't have to tinker with (Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, but it can be a pain sometimes).

In addition to all my programs, a native coding environment for me to run just about any script or compiler I need, and also I have access to the microsoft office suite, which is far and away better than Open Office.

It's everything I need to get the job done.... which the exception of a graphical SPICE tool... but I can remote desktop into a Vista PC and utilize LTSpice if I need to run graphical simulations.

[bazookajoe]

Personally I don't get this. If I needed CPU/RAM intensive Windows only apps I wouldn't buy a Mac. Please give me an example of someone needing a Mac only app for their Windows box so bad that they dual boot...

Well, I currently have Macs so the best option was to get Windows 7 so I could run those programs on my current machines. For a new purchase, I would still get a Mac because for 90% of what I do (graphic design, audio and video editing, etc.) Macs are just more pleasant to use. So far Windows 7 seems stable but my previous experience with Windows (always had PC laptops for work) was that it's glitchy and simply required to much attention. As Jordan put it, it's the "comfort of a stable OS".

...BTW...resistance is futile you will all be assimilated.

:r In the overall scheme of things Mac users barely show up on the radar. Why do Windows users care so much about us?

[JE3146]

Well, I currently have Macs so the best option was to get Windows 7 so I could run those programs on my current machines. For a new purchase, I would still get a Mac because for 90% of what I do (graphic design, audio and video editing, etc.) Macs are just more pleasant to use. So far Windows 7 seems stable but my previous experience with Windows (always had PC laptops for work) was that it's glitchy and simply required to much attention. As Jordan put it, it's the "comfort of a stable OS".

No no no. :D

Comfort of a stable OS in comparison to a Linux distro that you have to tweak to your needs. I find no issue with Windows as a stable OS, but I keep my Windows OS Stable.

I love Windows and I use it often. But for the sake of the tools I need to accomplish my scholastic tasks on campus or at home. The Mac OS X provides a more stable experience to what I would have to do to Linux to make it run similar tasks.

For everything else, I use a PC, though lately I find it annoying to sit at my desk, so I often just sit on my couch with the Mac. I wouldn't call that biased, because if the laptop ran Windows, I'd use it too. I just like the couch :D

[bazookajoe]

No no no. :D

Comfort of a stable OS in comparison to a Linux distro that you have to tweak to your needs. I find no issue with Windows as a stable OS, but I keep my Windows OS Stable.

I love Windows and I use it often. But for the sake of the tools I need to accomplish my scholastic tasks on campus or at home. The Mac OS X provides a more stable experience to what I would have to do to Linux to make it run similar tasks.

For everything else, I use a PC, though lately I find it annoying to sit at my desk, so I often just sit on my couch with the Mac. I wouldn't call that biased, because if the laptop ran Windows, I'd use it too. I just like the couch :D

I know. I didn't mean to imply that you were endorsing my opinion (or that I was explaining yours) - I just like the phrase. :D

[Titan410]

http://www.univ-orleans.fr/mapmo/membres/chauveau/MacPC.jpg

[357]

...BTW...resistance is futile you will all be assimilated.


:r In the overall scheme of things Mac users barely show up on the radar. Why do Windows users care so much about us?

Well, I had to include that line to make sure you guys know that my Windows/Mac rants have to be taken as 50% technical and 50% sarcasm. In reality Microsoft dumped money into Apple years ago to keep them afloat. I assume he did so to prevent the SEC from filing anti-trust litigation.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-202143.html

For this reason if no other, Apple will be around as long as Microsoft is. While I don't worry myself with Apple users, I occasionally have the misfortune of informing them that the $4,000 iBook they just bought isn't supported for many of our business needs. Big wig doctors in large regional medical groups don't tend to take that kind of news well. Especially when the app they need most (financial) is one of the ones they can't use.

Mike

[JE3146]

Well, I had to include that line to make sure you guys know that my Windows/Mac rants have to be taken as 50% technical and 50% sarcasm. In reality Microsoft dumped money into Apple years ago to keep them afloat. I assume he did so to prevent the SEC from filing anti-trust litigation.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-202143.html

For this reason if no other, Apple will be around as long as Microsoft is. While I don't worry myself with Apple users, I occasionally have the misfortune of informing them that the $4,000 iBook they just bought isn't supported for many of our business needs. Big wig doctors in large regional medical groups don't tend to take that kind of news well. Especially when the app they need most (financial) is one of the ones they can't use.

Mike

4000$ iBook?

Is this 2005? And since when did an iBook cost 4000$?
:rolleyes:

[ashtonlady]

Last time I looked( which was 30 min ago) Macbooks Started at 1000 dollars and only run up to 2500 dollars.

[dragon0708]

Macs are suppose to be more user friendly compared to PCs. I have always used owned PCs, but I have supported users with Macs and they seem to be easier to configure and use.

[GreekGodX]

Last time I looked( which was 30 min ago) Macbooks Started at 1000 dollars and only run up to 2500 dollars.

That's correct if you don't add any options, or pick something that isn't on the higher end. You can easily make the macbook pro 17in over $4,000 with options.

Regardless Windows or Apple I wouldn't spend that much on any laptop. Price isn't really a big issue to me. I will pay to be happy with my laptop and not have headaches because of it.

[DrDubzz]

ever check out the Asus?

It'll knock out whatever you need for 1100

[GreekGodX]

ever check out the Asus?

It'll knock out whatever you need for 1100

I have.. You have a good point. I'll look into it more. Thanks :tu

[King James]

That's correct if you don't add any options, or pick something that isn't on the higher end. You can easily make the macbook pro 17in over $4,000 with options.

Regardless Windows or Apple I wouldn't spend that much on any laptop. Price isn't really a big issue to me. I will pay to be happy with my laptop and not have headaches because of it.

don't do any upgrades you can avoid with Apple. If you want more RAM or bigger HDD, do it yourself.... will save a lot of money. Not too many other options you should need.

If you want portable, the 13'' is a nice size, 15" starts to get a little big to be taking around and fitting on a desk in classes (at least for me it was)

Just thought I'd throw that out there as I too had concerns about 13" being too small, but its really a nice size actually.

I always chuckle a little when people have their big ass 17" older-gen MBPs that barely fit on a desk

[rizzle]

I'm not a hater. I just can't justify spending twice as much on a Mac to solve problems I have never encountered with a PC.



That sums me up perfectly. I just recently bought a new laptop, thanks Andrew :tu, and I said all along that I was going to get an Apple as my next purchase. Why? Because I heard nothing but good things from people that own them and it just seemed like the right thing to do. But I couldn't force myself to pay twice as much for a comparable machine especially when I've never had any of these problems that I hear so much about. Plus, I'm no geek so as long as I can do what I want with no problems, I ain't out to impress anyone.

So I bought another Toshiba. My last one was great, this one is incredible, and I took the rest of the money that I would have spent on the Mac and bought some crack.

[Blueface]

don't do any upgrades you can avoid with Apple. If you want more RAM or bigger HDD, do it yourself.... will save a lot of money. Not too many other options you should need.

If you want portable, the 13'' is a nice size, 15" starts to get a little big to be taking around and fitting on a desk in classes (at least for me it was)

Just thought I'd throw that out there as I too had concerns about 13" being too small, but its really a nice size actually.

I always chuckle a little when people have their big ass 17" older-gen MBPs that barely fit on a desk

13" works fine for me.
If it was up to my wife, she would rather go smaller.:r:r:r

[VirtualSmitty]

4000$ iBook?

Is this 2005? And since when did an iBook cost 4000$?
:rolleyes:

The macbook pro can easily go over 4k on apples site since they overcharge for parts. King James nailed it, do it yourself and save a ton of money.

[357]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC226LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyOTc

Pick your options...17" MacBook Pro start at $2500 and without adding any major software you can easily put them in the $3500-$4000 range.

My point was said doctor was a big shot and wanted the best. He bought the top of the line Apple laptop for about $4000. He brought it to work and expected corporate IT to "make it work" with all of our business applications. He was lucky to get the basics to work. No Citrix (most of the hospital's apps are delivered this way), no VPN, no financial apps = one pissed off doctor. It was his own fault but we had to have a $150K/year security guy waste a ton of his time just to see if he could find a work around for VPN access. The rest they threw at us.

In the business world they are a giant waste of time and money. Personal use we can debate to the end of time. That said, the old Amiga and Atari PCs still have a niche following too. :tu

The bottom line is they overcharge for their hardware. Back in the days where you could only run their OS on their proprietary hardware if you wanted their OS, you didn't have any other option. Now you can run their OS (if you like it so much) and buy (non-Apple) name brand hardware for 1/2 the price and pop in the OS X disk.

Mike

[aich75013]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC226LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyOTc
He was lucky to get the basics to work. No Citrix (most of the hospital's apps are delivered this way), no VPN, no financial apps = one pissed off doctor. It was his own fault but we had to have a $150K/year security guy waste a ton of his time just to see if he could find a work around for VPN access. The rest they threw at us.


We have quite a few Mac users that are able to VPN and use VNC.
I couldn't justify the extra cost of a Mac, although I did consider it.
If I were upgrading on my own terms, rather than replacing a laptop whose motherboard had gane bad, I may have bought a Mac.
$600 versus $2000 made a huge difference. The 13" is just too small for me.

[T.G]

In the business world they are a giant waste of time and money. Personal use we can debate to the end of time. That said, the old Amiga and Atari PCs still have a niche following too. :tu


http://www.quieto.net/notas/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/maxheadroom.jpg

"Th-th-the Amiga was v-v-very good to m-my walpaper! Haaa!"

[goalie204]

i've used for a long time. I own a 15" macbook pro (work and portability) and a pc (home desktop). If my pc ever died, I would probably just use the mac, but if i had to buy another computer it would be a mac. There's no reason to choose a pc over a mac unless it's a money issue, which you said it wasn't. I've done every single thing on my mac that i could do on my pc, whether it was within the os x environment, or booting windows within it.

[357]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC118LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyODk
$1699 MacBook Pro:
15" screen
2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4.0 GB RAM
250 GB SATA Hard Drive 5400RPM
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Video Card = Specs not listed

OR

http://www.salescircular.com/mi/computer/laptpp.shtml (@ Office Max)
$449 Toshiba Satellite L505-S5998
15.6-in. Widescreen
Intel Pentium T4300 processor (2 Cores @ 2.1 GHz)
4.0 GB RAM
320GB SATA Hard Drive 5400RPM
LabelFlash DVD +-RW drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 4500M
802.11B/G/N WLAN.
Webcam, Microphone.
Windows 7 Home Premium

+

$102.50 Mac OS X 10.5
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Leopard-OS-X-10-5-Apple-Full-Retail-Install-Upgrade_W0QQitemZ200419242686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea9eaf2be

Total = $551.50 vs $1699

[goalie204]

you get what you pay for.

[AD720]

Hey Mike - what do you think of Apple computers?


































:D ;s ;)

[KenS]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC118LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyODk
$1699 MacBook Pro:
15" screen
2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4.0 GB RAM
250 GB SATA Hard Drive 5400RPM
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Video Card = Specs not listed

OR

http://www.salescircular.com/mi/computer/laptpp.shtml (@ Office Max)
$449 Toshiba Satellite L505-S5998
15.6-in. Widescreen
Intel Pentium T4300 processor (2 Cores @ 2.1 GHz)
4.0 GB RAM
320GB SATA Hard Drive 5400RPM
LabelFlash DVD +-RW drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 4500M
802.11B/G/N WLAN.
Webcam, Microphone.
Windows 7 Home Premium

+

$102.50 Mac OS X 10.5
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Leopard-OS-X-10-5-Apple-Full-Retail-Install-Upgrade_W0QQitemZ200419242686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea9eaf2be

Total = $551.50 vs $1699

Although I'm sure it's fun to do stuff like this, it's also quite crazy, and is (usually) intentionally biased. Do you really think these are equivalent machines? Hint: they are not.

Anytime somebody asks a "Mac or PC" question, people trot out the same old lines. The absolute best advice is to speak with somebody who actually knows about, has current experience with, and uses both Mac and Windows PCs. Otherwise it's just people quoting the same crap that they've read elsewhere.

As for price differences, the key thing to know is that Apple simply does not have a "low end" laptop, and does not play in that segment of the market. So it's easy to find a cheapo Windows laptop and compare it, but you'd be much more informed by a true comparison of similarly priced laptops. Yes, Dell, Toshiba, HP, etc. do actually sell similarly priced machines, with the level of components and sophistication as the Mac laptops. But it's not as much fun to do a true Apples to apples comparison.

[Blueface]

But it's not as much fun to do a true Apples to apples comparison.

Pun intended.:r

You make some great points.
I happen to use a PC laptop for work (HP), I have a desktop PC I still use, and I have my MacBook.
I am not a one side only person at all.
Given I use all three regularly, I am confident when I say I love my Mac any day over a PC.

Best of all.......................................

This message was posted without any fear of viruses and without utilizing any anti virus software.:r:r:r

[Blueface]

Found an article that contained this and I thought it truly sums it up for me.

most PC users use PCs because they have to, while Mac users use Mac because they want to.

That statement truly says it all.

Here is the rest of the article.
Interesting reading, even if one doesn't agree.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/101-undeniable-reasons-why-mac-is-better-than-pcs/

Another one.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=115151

There are similarly plenty of these by PC users but will leave it to the other side to find.

[Titan410]

[QUOTE=Blueface;685717]Found an article that contained this and I thought it truly sums it up for me.

most PC users use PCs because they have to, while Mac users use Mac because they want to.


Agreed. Well put.

[goalie204]

The absolute best advice is to speak with somebody who actually knows about, has current experience with, and uses both Mac and Windows PCs.

Agreed, and owning both, and using both on a daily basis, i could give my pc up, but i wouldn't give my mac up.

[357]

Although I'm sure it's fun to do stuff like this, it's also quite crazy, and is (usually) intentionally biased. Do you really think these are equivalent machines? Hint: they are not.

Anytime somebody asks a "Mac or PC" question, people trot out the same old lines. The absolute best advice is to speak with somebody who actually knows about, has current experience with, and uses both Mac and Windows PCs. Otherwise it's just people quoting the same crap that they've read elsewhere.

As for price differences, the key thing to know is that Apple simply does not have a "low end" laptop, and does not play in that segment of the market. So it's easy to find a cheapo Windows laptop and compare it, but you'd be much more informed by a true comparison of similarly priced laptops. Yes, Dell, Toshiba, HP, etc. do actually sell similarly priced machines, with the level of components and sophistication as the Mac laptops. But it's not as much fun to do a true Apples to apples comparison.

I can take a hint...I get that I'm coming across a little heavy handed and biased. I'm just trying to get the point across that just because it has an Apple on it doesn't mean it was made better. If you like the OS fine use it. I'm just saying don't bother to pay 3 times the price for the hardware. The laptops I quoted aren't 100% identical, but they are 95% the same. The only real difference is the CPU and the outer plastic bezels. Use the money you save and buy 7 or 8 boxes of good cigars.

Some people believe that buying a certain name brand is worth paying a little extra. I would say that often I agree. This however is not one of those circumstances. I've taken apart Macs and PCs. I know they buy the same hardware from the same vendors and put them in their laptops. Years ago that wasn't the case. Apple used SCSI hard drives and RISC based CPUs. Both of which were superior to the IDE hard drives and x86 CPUs that PCs were using. However Apple dropped SCSI a long time ago and dropped RISC based CPUs about 3 years ago to adopt Intel x86 based CPUs. Since they have done that there is no real difference between Apple and PC hardware. Hence there is no real justification for them to charge 3 times the price.

I'm not trying to be rude by my repeated posts. I have worked in computers for about 15 years and I'm trying to help shed some light on the subject.

[GreekGodX]

I might not buy a laptop for another year just so this can keep going :r I love it!

Everyone is providing some great info. It is a tough decision either way but then again it isn't like the decision is forever. A few years down the road I can get something else :D

[Red]

mac owns!
it will run as good as it did on day one in five years

[goalie204]

The only real difference is the CPU and the outer plastic bezels.

the mac has an NVIDIA GeForce 9400M which even if integrated is still far superior to the intel graphics media accelerator.

The bottom line and the most important 2 points is that the OP said price was not an issue, and he isn't a fan of windows.

[JE3146]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC118LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyODk
$1699 MacBook Pro:
15" screen
2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4.0 GB RAM
250 GB SATA Hard Drive 5400RPM
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Video Card = Specs not listed

OR

http://www.salescircular.com/mi/computer/laptpp.shtml (@ Office Max)
$449 Toshiba Satellite L505-S5998
15.6-in. Widescreen
Intel Pentium T4300 processor (2 Cores @ 2.1 GHz)
4.0 GB RAM
320GB SATA Hard Drive 5400RPM
LabelFlash DVD +-RW drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 4500M
802.11B/G/N WLAN.
Webcam, Microphone.
Windows 7 Home Premium

+

$102.50 Mac OS X 10.5
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Leopard-OS-X-10-5-Apple-Full-Retail-Install-Upgrade_W0QQitemZ200419242686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea9eaf2be

Total = $551.50 vs $1699

:r

right....

FYI That's a GeForce 9400 in the Mac versus the Integrated Intel chipset.. and you're comparing an inferior CPU with 1/4 the L2 cache to that of the Mac's and also a reduced clock speed.

Give me a flipping break.

This is not even mentioning the unibody construction compared to that of the flimsy plastic frames of cheaper laptops. I don't get a satisfaction in hearing the lid of my laptop creak under stress as I open it.

You're running out of points. And your comparison to the business world means absolutely nothing to a person using a laptop for personal use. And even if it was transitioned over. Guess what. Install windows Vista or 7 on it and call it a day.

Boils down to personal preference. I will never own a Desktop Mac, but right now I see nothing better on the market than a Macbook. Thus I use a Windows/RHEL PC and a Macbook Pro with OS X/Win 7.

[Red]

same as with cigars...cheap cigars are cheap and dissapointing...good cigars are more money and awesome

[AD720]

As someone who does run a quote/unquote "hackintosh" I would love to know the method to get OS X running on any off the shelf laptop, such as the $449.99 Toshiba satellite, that gets all of the components working, including the wireless card, audio I/O, etc that a regular end user can do. (besides netbooks)

[JE3146]

As someone who does run a quote/unquote "hackintosh" I would love to know the method to get OS X running on any off the shelf laptop, such as the $449.99 Toshiba satellite, that gets all of the components working, including the wireless card, audio I/O, etc that a regular end user can do. (besides netbooks)

I was kinda curious about that myself...

[Blueface]

Did I mention I love my MacBook?
Did I mention I am posting this from my iPhone?
Gotta run. Going to video some stuff with my IPod Nano with video camera. :D

[goalie204]

same as with cigars...cheap cigars are cheap and dissapointing...good cigars are more money and awesome

disagreed says the party short :P

[357]

:r

right....

FYI That's a GeForce 9400 in the Mac versus the Integrated Intel chipset.. and you're comparing an inferior CPU with 1/4 the L2 cache to that of the Mac's and also a reduced clock speed.

Give me a flipping break.

This is not even mentioning the unibody construction compared to that of the flimsy plastic frames of cheaper laptops. I don't get a satisfaction in hearing the lid of my laptop creak under stress as I open it.

You're running out of points. And your comparison to the business world means absolutely nothing to a person using a laptop for personal use. And even if it was transitioned over. Guess what. Install windows Vista or 7 on it and call it a day.

Boils down to personal preference. I will never own a Desktop Mac, but right now I see nothing better on the market than a Macbook. Thus I use a Windows/RHEL PC and a Macbook Pro with OS X/Win 7.


Actually you can get identical specs + Blu-Ray for $1099 made by Lenovo (Formely IBM's laptop/desktop division) and save $600.

IdeaPad Y550
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8700 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2)
4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz SODIMM Memory (2 Dimms)
nVidia Geforce G 210M graphic card with 512MB memory (your post didn't list video memory)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Bluetooth
15.6" HD WLED with 1.3M integrated Camera
250GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
Blu-ray/DVD-ROM Combo
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel WiFi Link 5100 1x2 (AGN) WLAN
Battery: 6 Cell Lithium-Ion 2.6Ah


OR

You can smoke the Apple's specs this HP for $1424 and still save almost $300

HP DV6T
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB) QUAD CORE
6.0 GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
500GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection (Prevents fall damage)
1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 230M
15.6" diagonal High Definition LED HP Brightview Widescreen Display (1366x768)
Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit


Heck for $300 to $600 you can enjoy a lot of fine cigars while marvelling at the MacBook owners shiny aluminum shell. With all that leftover money you might even be able to buy a laptop bag with some padding incase you drop your "inferior" plastic laptop. Although you may just opt to refrain from dropping it. :ss

[goalie204]

it's not all about hardware, the guy didn't say he's looking for an insane computer to produce and render movies. He also said price isn't an issue. He also said he doesn't like windows. Sounds to me like he's already made the right choice. Mac ;)

[Blueface]

Heck for $300 to $600 you can enjoy a lot of fine cigars while marvelling at the MacBook owners shiny aluminum shell. With all that leftover money you might even be able to buy a laptop bag with some padding incase you drop your "inferior" plastic laptop. Although you may just opt to refrain from dropping it. :ss

Sure, but in the end, you can still only dream of really owning a Mac.:D
Sort of like when I use to use condoms. Sure the lambskin costs more. Sure the latex will get job done with plenty of money left over for cigars. However, you just can't beat the feeling of that lambskin.:r (actually, you can. Snip and it is taken care of).

[KenS]

Actually you can get identical specs + Blu-Ray for $1099 made by Lenovo (Formely IBM's laptop/desktop division) and save $600.

IdeaPad Y550
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8700 (2.53GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2)
4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz SODIMM Memory (2 Dimms)
nVidia Geforce G 210M graphic card with 512MB memory (your post didn't list video memory)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
Bluetooth
15.6" HD WLED with 1.3M integrated Camera
250GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
Blu-ray/DVD-ROM Combo
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel WiFi Link 5100 1x2 (AGN) WLAN
Battery: 6 Cell Lithium-Ion 2.6Ah


OR

You can smoke the Apple's specs this HP for $1424 and still save almost $300

HP DV6T
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB) QUAD CORE
6.0 GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
500GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection (Prevents fall damage)
1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 230M
15.6" diagonal High Definition LED HP Brightview Widescreen Display (1366x768)
Lightscribe Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit


Heck for $300 to $600 you can enjoy a lot of fine cigars while marvelling at the MacBook owners shiny aluminum shell. With all that leftover money you might even be able to buy a laptop bag with some padding incase you drop your "inferior" plastic laptop. Although you may just opt to refrain from dropping it. :ss

Don't forget your antivirus subscription and internet "security" ;) At least now you are talking about things that are comparable. I was struggling with comparing a sub-$500 machine to a MacBook Pro.

I wouldn't argue that there is some price premium paid for a difference in "it just works" kind of quality, and the ease of use and tight integration of things like iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, etc.

Certainly a judgement call on the value of that, but again, you are now making a more reasonable comparison for somebody who is genuinely looking for advice. I use both types of machines on a daily basis (they sit side-by-side on my desk), and I would never, ever recommend Windoze over Mac OS.

[KenS]

Sure, but in the end, you can still only dream of really owning a Mac.:D
Sort of like when I use to use condoms. Sure the lambskin costs more. Sure the latex will get job done with plenty of money left over for cigars. However, you just can't beat the feeling of that lambskin.:r (actually, you can. Snip and it is taken care of).

Wow, this is a direction I never saw this thread taking. Yikes!!

:r

[Blueface]

Wow, this is a direction I never saw this thread taking. Yikes!!

:r

:r

[goalie204]

you can have a great burger for 10 bux (or whatever) at a decent restaurant, or you can have a mcdonalds one for a buck. Should one go for the mcdonalds one just because it's cheaper? I'd personally rather have the much tastier real restaurant burger.

[replicant_argent]

hang on a second.....


I am really not sure how much blu-ray enters into a laptop discussion. Quite frankly.... How big is the screen?
You do critical watching of movies on a 13-17 inch screen? Wait... I hear the argument that you can use it as a media server to an external display....





Yeah.. if you are that into movies, you already have a dedicated blu-ray player.
You can install a radar detector in an old worn out Geo Metro, but you still really don't need the functionality. ;)

[Blueface]

you can have a great burger for 10 bux (or whatever) at a decent restaurant, or you can have a mcdonalds one for a buck. Should one go for the mcdonalds one just because it's cheaper? I'd personally rather have the much tastier real restaurant burger.

Wait, while I will agree mostly with this, that depends. I may settle for a middle of the road (price wise) In N Out or 5 Guys. YUMMY!!!:r
Man they are good!!!

[357]

I love the virus argument. Let's explore that one. According to the stats here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-us-pc-market-share-flat-dells-sinks-2009-4

Apple's market share gains levelled off at a whopping 7.4%. WOW.

According to the sources quoted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

Microsoft owns 91% of the OS market share.



Now lets consider motives.

Q: What is the primary motive for writing viruses and spyware?

A: To cause either chaos (viruses) or to make money (market research statistics forwarded to a central point, or via theft/fraud)

Q: Why would someone go through the trouble of writing code for these complex applications (virus/spyware) for a platform that only affects 7.4% of the market?

A: Good question. Primarily they don't.

[KenS]

I love the virus argument. Let's explore that one. According to the stats here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-us-pc-market-share-flat-dells-sinks-2009-4

Apple's market share gains levelled off at a whopping 7.4%. WOW.

According to the sources quoted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

Microsoft owns 91% of the OS market share.



Now lets consider motives.

Q: What is the primary motive for writing viruses and spyware?

A: To cause either chaos (viruses) or to make money (market research statistics forwarded to a central point, or via theft/fraud)

Q: Why would someone go through the trouble of writing code for these complex applications (virus/spyware) for a platform that only affects 7.4% of the market?

A: Good question. Primarily they don't.

Ummm, ok, let's explore:
So the *reason* that Mac users don't have to hassle with viruses, and virus protection is somehow relevant?

Customer: Wow, macs aren't peppered with viruses and malware all the time, and I don't need to buy all that crap to load up the machine! I'll get one of those!

Salesman: No, no, don't do that. Windows has a much larger marketshare, so that excuses the viruses. You'll love running scans all the time, knowing that your machine is a more attractive target! You silly boy!

:r

[Blueface]

I love the virus argument. Let's explore that one. According to the stats here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-us-pc-market-share-flat-dells-sinks-2009-4

Apple's market share gains levelled off at a whopping 7.4%. WOW.

According to the sources quoted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

Microsoft owns 91% of the OS market share.



Now lets consider motives.

Q: What is the primary motive for writing viruses and spyware?

A: To cause either chaos (viruses) or to make money (market research statistics forwarded to a central point, or via theft/fraud)

Q: Why would someone go through the trouble of writing code for these complex applications (virus/spyware) for a platform that only affects 7.4% of the market?

A: Good question. Primarily they don't.

:confused:
I think you are making the point for us Mac users. Don't care if I am only 1% of the market. I am the 1% living carefree.

[Blueface]

Ummm, ok, let's explore:
So the *reason* that Mac users don't have to hassle with viruses, and virus protection is somehow relevant?

Customer: Wow, macs aren't peppered with viruses and malware all the time, and I don't need to buy all that crap to load up the machine! I'll get one of those!

Salesman: No, no, don't do that. Windows has a much larger marketshare, so that excuses the viruses. You'll love running scans all the time, knowing that your machine is a more attractive target! You silly boy!

:r

:r:r:r

[replicant_argent]

:r:r

I don't get to use this very often....





:tpd: :r:r:

While I am at it, while I am not a commodities dealer in Southeast Asia and have no interest in such ventures, I will now attempt to give a crap about the price of rice in China.

[Blueface]

I don't get to use this very often....





:tpd: :r:r:

While I am at it, while I am not a commodities dealer in Southeast Asia and have no interest in such ventures, I will now attempt to give a crap about the price of rice in China.

.....and what do you have against tea? I prefer to care about the price of tea in China better.:D

[floydp]

I love the virus argument. Let's explore that one. According to the stats here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-us-pc-market-share-flat-dells-sinks-2009-4

Apple's market share gains levelled off at a whopping 7.4%. WOW.

According to the sources quoted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

Microsoft owns 91% of the OS market share.



Now lets consider motives.

Q: What is the primary motive for writing viruses and spyware?

A: To cause either chaos (viruses) or to make money (market research statistics forwarded to a central point, or via theft/fraud)

Q: Why would someone go through the trouble of writing code for these complex applications (virus/spyware) for a platform that only affects 7.4% of the market?

A: Good question. Primarily they don't.


And I hope it stays that way.

I'm the geek in my family, and when my kids ask what machine to get I suggest the Mac first because I'd see it less. I can use a windows machine forever without getting virus's or malicious code but that doesn't hold true for my kids and their kids. And who does the unfarging of their machines? I do. I've reformatted more windows based machines than I care to remember. Three years of running OS X and I've done it once, to see how difficult it was. None of us do any business on our machines so I wouldn't even venture in to that part of the argument. But for the design, OS and ease of use I highly recommend a Mac.

For price I suggest a Windows 7 machine. Been running 7 since the end of October on a 4 year old Gateway desktop without issue. Also have a recently purchased Dell 1545 laptop that impresses me because it cost 500 bux and works quite well.

You can make an argument and structure it to suit whatever machine you prefer. Ultimately we are all bias about what we like and will to no end justify and support just how sound our own purchases are. Go to the Apple store and to Best Buy, Staples or whatever you have access to and test drive and then decide.

Doesn't matter what OS you prefer, just as long as it allows you to access The Nut House. Happy Holidays Geeks. :r

[KenS]

Doesn't matter what OS you prefer, just as long as it allows you to access The Nut House. Happy Holidays Geeks. :r

Well said sir. Happy Holidays to you and yours :tu :tu

[357]

:confused:
I think you are making the point for us Mac users. Don't care if I am only 1% of the market. I am the 1% living carefree.

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.

This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent. Remeber the virus argument? To expand that line of thinking, why bother writing your application/game twice only to reach an additional 7% of the market? These kind of things become apparent to the software companies, especially in a recession.

:2

;)

BTW, Merry Christmas! I hope you guys are enjoying this as much as I am.

[357]

In honor of this thread; at next year's Shack Herf I will make sure to wear a T-shirt with an Apple logo on it. Of course it will have a red circle around it with a & slash through it.

:D

[Blueface]

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..


I think it is quite safe for me to say that not only has Apple outlasted the Beta, but it has also grown to an incredible magnitude that was not expected. In their early days, many said they wouldn't last. They incorporated in 1977. It is now 2010. My simple math yields that to be 33 years.
Remember, while I can accept your 7% niche argument as haven't attempted to validate it, that 7% is all Apple for the most part.
The remaining 93% is NOT all Microsoft.

Say what whoever wants to say to support one or the other, the fact remains Apple and Macs are not Beta. They are here for the long haul as they have proven.

BTW, I never bought a Beta but I did have 8-tracks, cassettes, vinyl records and oh, an AMC Gremlin. All long gone too.

[Blueface]

deleted as post duplicated

[Blueface]

Did some reading.
Thought I would share.

The iPhone gets the most press and the iPod sells in the largest quantities, but it's the Macintosh that really drives Apple's growth, says Gene Munster.

In the second installment of a multipart report on Apple's "3 Cylinder Engine," Piper Jaffray's chief Apple (AAPL) analyst looks at the Mac business over the next couple of years and likes what he sees. In particular:

Growth: After Apple introduced the Intel Macs, Mac sales grew 37% in 2007, more than double the industry-wide rate of 15%. Munster is modeling 2.0 to 2.1 million Macs for the March quarter (vs. the Street's 1.95 million). He believes Apple will continue to outpace its competitors with upgraded iMacs and Mac minis in the next 3 months and redesigned MacBooks and MacBook Pros in time for the '08 education season.
Market Share: According to IDC, Apple's worldwide market share grew from 2.4% in 2006 to 2.9% in 2007. (See chart below.) Munster is conservatively modeling global market share to remain flat this year, but he notes that enterprise sales account for 70% of the worldwide market, a segment Apple is not aggressively targeting. In the consumer market, where Apple does compete, he estimates the Mac's share is now 10% worldwide and an impressive 21% in the U.S.
Sales Price: While Apple has gained market share over the past three years, it has also been able to resist the industry trend of decreasing sales prices. In fact, it actually increased its average sales price (ASP) by more than $150 from December '05 to December '07. "The combination of increasing ASPs and rising market share is evidence of a compelling product line," writes Munster.

[mmblz]

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.


I use both every day. Actually, I use 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, XP, Vista, and Win 7 almost every day. The only reason I've ever "needed" Windows is for compiling/testing for work.
Macs are easier to use and have less problems. If you ever do "need" windows, VMWare Fusion is very easy to use and is a great product.

As far as running OSX on non-Apple hardware, first of all it is illegal. But even ignoring that, it's not going to give you two finger scrolling ;)

[bazookajoe]

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.

This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent. Remeber the virus argument? To expand that line of thinking, why bother writing your application/game twice only to reach an additional 7% of the market? These kind of things become apparent to the software companies, especially in a recession.

Beta was a better format, much better picture than VHS. The fact that the world found the format irrelevant doesn't mean it was inferior. Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. have relatively small market shares. Since the world is made up of mostly followers, the last factor I would use to make a decision about what's best is the opinion of the masses. People often choose low cost over quality, that's why there are $29 dvd players and $1 cigars. I prefer to choose the best combination of quality and cost that fits my budget - I'd rather have less but better stuff than massive quantities of cheap stuff. Cheaper or more widely used simply doesn't equal "better".


BTW, Merry Christmas! I hope you guys are enjoying this as much as I am.

I am.:D

[Blueface]

I just realized, Apple will survive just with me alone.

MacBook
iPod Nano - no video
iPod Nano - video
iPod touch (first generation)
iPhone

Dreaming of moving up to a MacBook Pro 17", once I am done paying my current one on "same as cash" and can find another similar "same as cash" offer.
Waiting on the 4G iPhone to upgrade.
I'd buy a car if they sold one.
Just bought a lawnmower or otherwise would be interested in one from them also.:r

Forgot to mention, the iPod touch is my 2.5 year old grandson's. I figured I would taint his opinion early on to our side. He uses it all the time. Knows his way around all his applications. Awesome tool with flash card games for him to learn. Apple, so easy even a 2.5 year old can use it. I want to hear Bill Gates say that about Microsoft.

[LeoM]

Hmm, well I was refraining from commenting here, but I'm bored, so wth? :D

Personally, I prefer Windows. Windows 7 at the current time (as Vista was the current rendition of Windows Me..........complete crap). I've worked with Windows, Linux, Unix, and Novell for over 15 years and still keep coming back to Windows (although there was a brief period when Mandrake was kickin it that I absolutely loved Linux).

I've tried Mac's, hell, even loaded my MSI Wind with Mac OS 10.5 and tried it out for a couple of months. Absolutely hated it. No features were where I thought they'd be, everything seemed to take twice as long to accomplish. This is not a dig on Mac's, it's just the way I perceived it. Most likely this was due to how used to Windows I am and how much I hate having to "tinker" with computers when not at work. For me, "it just works" means using a Windows based device. As for the virus issues, the only Windows computer (that I personally own, not work with) I have any malware protection installed on is the one I torrent with and I've rarely ever had an issue. Of course this leads to all kinds of discussions about browsing habits and such that we could talk about all year.

At the end of the day, try'em both (if you haven't already) and decide which one you like better. That's most likely the one you'll be happy with (at least for the next 4-5 years until you upgrade again :D).

Just my :2

[AD720]

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant...

...This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent...





Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?


As someone who does run a quote/unquote "hackintosh" I would love to know the method to get OS X running on any off the shelf laptop, such as the $449.99 Toshiba satellite, that gets all of the components working, including the wireless card, audio I/O, etc that a regular end user can do. (besides netbooks)


Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.

[replicant_argent]

You should really look at the Groundbreaking Commodore 64.

Just Sayin'.

[GreekGodX]

Played with some laptops today. Only real way for me to get a true feel is to take it home and use it for a few days but an hour in best buy will have to cut it. To me if it wasn't for most software being written for Windows I don't see why people wouldn't buy an apple (price is another reason). I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

[replicant_argent]

Betamax was actually preferred over VHS by the broadcast media professionals for many years, as I recall. Purely aside from the conversation, but if you are gonna blow smoke.....

[AD720]

Played with some laptops today. Only real way for me to get a true feel is to take it home and use it for a few days but an hour in best buy will have to cut it. To me if it wasn't for most software being written for Windows I don't see why people wouldn't buy an apple (price is another reason). I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

The smart decision is to get the computer that works for you and what you want to do. They are not one-size-fits-all. For example, I couldn't imagine having one of those 17 inch "desktop replacement" laptops but other folks wouldn't know what to do on my 13.3 (or my mini 9 for that matter!).

Is there a specific piece of software that you are concerned will not work on/is not available for an Apple?

[GreekGodX]

The smart decision is to get the computer that works for you and what you want to do. They are not one-size-fits-all. For example, I couldn't imagine having one of those 17 inch "desktop replacement" laptops but other folks wouldn't know what to do on my 13.3 (or my mini 9 for that matter!).

Is there a specific piece of software that you are concerned will not work on/is not available for an Apple?

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

[AD720]

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

Understood.

[King James]

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option.

your arguments are getting worse an worse IMO.

I'm a university student and have never "needed" windows... I haven't used windows for 6 years. If I ever "needed" I would run bootcamp on my Mac....which like almost every other program they have (iweb, iphoto, etc) couldn't be easier to set up....hell even there back up program (time machine) sets itself up.

And I don't care if only 1% of the market uses Apple... I don't have viruses and love it.

http://www.mediabistro.com/mobilecontenttoday/original/apple_via_engadget_classroom.png

here is the 1% hard at work (probably on facebook)

[goalie204]

I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

woot :D if you need any advice post here or pm me i'll do my best

[shilala]

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

I mentioned earlier that this is the first time in my life I've ever considered owning an apple laptop or desktop, and I've been a windows developer since '99.
I spent a few years selling ipods on ebay, made lots of money.
Just recently got an iphone for my girlfriend and I, love them.
Have owned every ipod generation ever made, loved them all. The only one I haven't owned is the new shuffle and nano video, because I don't need them.
I absolutely love Apple.
Leo made really good points above. I'm kinda in the same boat as him.
Vista sucked while it was Longhorn. I have no idea what MS is doing, but they're crawling under my skin which each new release. Windows 7 can suck it, as far as I'm concerned. More crap.
The whole "viruses" argument is kinda retarded. It's much akin to "I might drop my laptop in the mud".
Don't drop it in the mud, and there's no mud. :)
I gather viruses to fix them because it's fun, and it's "what I do". But that's me. I understand most folks don't want that problem, and can't fix them, but it's a non-argument that comes up constantly and it's ridiculous.
Christos, buy that Apple. It's cool, it's swank, and Apple will cover your ass. Their customer service and presence is beyond reproach.
You'll be very happy, and that's what matters. :)
Just make sure the machine has an optical drive in it. Airbooks don't, and that makes for lots of pains in the butt you don't need. :tu

[Footbag]

I've used Windows and Macs but I'm a Windows user primarily. These days, unless you have a specific program that you need a specific OS for, both are good choices. I've even dabbled in Ubuntu which I think is a great package for someone willing to take a bit of initiative, but those users are in the minority. I have been very impressed with Windows 7.

I personally think you can get a better hardware value by customizing a PC to your specific liking, but very few people chose to go that far.

BTW, I'm a PC user and an Apple shareholder.

[macpappy]

I have a spare two cents so I thought I would comment.

On the comparison of the Macbook to the cheap PC. While it mentions the PC has a webcam, built-in microphone, etc. it does not mention that all Macbooks comes with a built-in webcam/microphone, etc. Also does the PC come with a network card? The Mac laptops have built in airport (wireless) network cards and automatically searches for a wireless network when you turn on your computer. If you are going to do a comparison, then do an accurate comparison.

To the person who worked in "photography-journalism" for three years. I've been in the business since 1975 (back in the day when portable was a typewriter weighing under 10 lbs. and didn't plug into the wall) (Side note: Does anyone else remember working an a TRS-80?) I started using Mac's in 1986 and haven't looked back. If you are working in the graphic design, photography or journalism fields, the software you need use was probably written for the Mac before it was written for the PC.

As for the doctor who spent $4,000 on a Macbook. It just goes to prove you can be highly educated and an idiot all at the same time. I also know quite a few doctors because my daughter-in-law is one. They are about evenly split between Mac and PC users. Most of them don't care one way or the other as long as the machine works.

Dependability? My son bought a Dell Laptop a month after I purchased my 15" Macbook Pro in 2006. I am still using my MBP on a daily basis with no downtime. He has had to replace his Dell twice and had it in for repairs three other times. Don't know why the problems but the replacements were because the "motherboard" died both time. The "repairs" were because of viruses that weren't covered by the latest anti-viral software upgrades.

To the person is said he doesn't know of any situation where a Mac outperforms a PC (or something to that effect). You should start reading what many of the PC consumer magazines have been saying for years. They have done benchtests of comparable machines and the Macs win. Every year the do reviews and comparisons and generally the Mac comes out on top. Usually the only place the Mac loses is in price comparisons of bottom line machines and that because the Mac bottom line machine is not comparable to the PC bottom line machine.

What I can't understand is why there are so many "Mac-Haters" out there. Do you PC users think you are so superior to Mac users simply because there are more computer games written for your OS than a Mac?

The bottom line is simply BUY A COMPUTER THAT WILL DO WHAT YOU WANT IT TO DO AND SPEND THE MONEY YOU WANT TO SPEND ON IT. THEN LIVE WITH IT.

[357]

Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?

This is big time misleading. You are counting iPhones and iPods. If we starting counting Windows Mobile phones and Microsoft Zune players, not to mention Netbooks, PDAs, and cash registers that run Windows CE Apple's numbers would look pretty puny.

From Business Insider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-us-pc-market-share-flat-dells-sinks-2009-4

Apple's Mac business leveled out after strong growth last year. U.S. Mac shipments were down 1% year-over-year, representing 7.4% of the market, according to Gartner. But that's a significant deceleration after the company grew U.S. shipments about 33% year-over-year during Q1 '08. (And grew U.S. shipments 8% year-over-year in Q4 '08, according to Gartner.)

http://static.businessinsider.com/~~/f?id=49e6a978796c7aaa00fdcf0b

These kinds of stats are a little more reliable then the web statistics. By web stats I mean those where the website collects OS info and comes up with a count of how many Windows vs Mac users visit them. Those might be a more accurate picture of active web users vs current sales/market share.

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.
[SIZE=3]

There are a number of Hackintosh or Hackbook websites. Just about anything's possible with Google and a little savvy.

http://www.dailyblogged.com/83/dell-inspiron-1525-hackbook-pro-tutorial/

http://www.hackintosh.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org/



Here's is a good deal I helped my mom pick out recently. She picked it up last night.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0320534

$749.99
Intel® Core(tm) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.2 GHz)
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
CD/DVD Writer DVD+/-RW Drive
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 (512 MB)
10/100 Network
802.11N Wireless Mini Card
17.3" High Definition+WLED Display with TrueLife(tm)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

My mom has some old, scratch that, really old financial apps. So I found her the specs I recommended with Windows 7 Pro. Professional allows you to run the Windows XP compatibility mode. Since all her apps run fine on XP, this will ensure that even old 8 bit & 16 bit apps will run fine on this x64 version of Windows 7. Windows 7 Professional also offers full system backup software built in.

I would also like to mention that there has been a ton of conjecture. I have done my best to backup my positions with credible links. Mind you I'm not talking about Op-Ed type columns full of more conjecture. I'm not pointing any fingers, but an opinion is just that. Masquerading one's opinon as fact is another thing.

By the way, here's a list of just some of the software not compatible wit Mac OS X. I know it's an old list but you get the idea...

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

If you want a more complete list, walk into Best Buy, Micro Center, etc and start looking at the side of software boxes (especially games). You'll find that a staggering percentage of them don't have a little Apple logo on them.

[357]

and just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

NSFW (language)

[Titan410]

and just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

NSFW (language)

That's funny! Inaccurate, but Funny!

[King James]

This is big time misleading. You are counting iPhones and iPods. If we starting counting Windows Mobile phones and Microsoft Zune players, not to mention Netbooks, PDAs, and cash registers that run Windows CE Apple's numbers would look pretty puny.

From Business Insider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-us-pc-market-share-flat-dells-sinks-2009-4

Apple's Mac business leveled out after strong growth last year. U.S. Mac shipments were down 1% year-over-year, representing 7.4% of the market, according to Gartner. But that's a significant deceleration after the company grew U.S. shipments about 33% year-over-year during Q1 '08. (And grew U.S. shipments 8% year-over-year in Q4 '08, according to Gartner.)

http://static.businessinsider.com/~~/f?id=49e6a978796c7aaa00fdcf0b

These kinds of stats are a little more reliable then the web statistics. By web stats I mean those where the website collects OS info and comes up with a count of how many Windows vs Mac users visit them. Those might be a more accurate picture of active web users vs current sales/market share.

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.
[SIZE=3]

There are a number of Hackintosh or Hackbook websites. Just about anything's possible with Google and a little savvy.

http://www.dailyblogged.com/83/dell-inspiron-1525-hackbook-pro-tutorial/

http://www.hackintosh.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org/



Here's is a good deal I helped my mom pick out recently. She picked it up last night.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0320534

$749.99
Intel® Core(tm) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.2 GHz)
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
CD/DVD Writer DVD+/-RW Drive
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 (512 MB)
10/100 Network
802.11N Wireless Mini Card
17.3" High Definition+WLED Display with TrueLife(tm)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

My mom has some old, scratch that, really old financial apps. So I found her the specs I recommended with Windows 7 Pro. Professional allows you to run the Windows XP compatibility mode. Since all her apps run fine on XP, this will ensure that even old 8 bit & 16 bit apps will run fine on this x64 version of Windows 7. Windows 7 Professional also offers full system backup software built in.

I would also like to mention that there has been a ton of conjecture. I have done my best to backup my positions with credible links. Mind you I'm not talking about Op-Ed type columns full of more conjecture. I'm not pointing any fingers, but an opinion is just that. Masquerading one's opinon as fact is another thing.

By the way, here's a list of just some of the software not compatible wit Mac OS X. I know it's an old list but you get the idea...

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

If you want a more complete list, walk into Best Buy, Micro Center, etc and start looking at the side of software boxes (especially games). You'll find that a staggering percentage of them don't have a little Apple logo on them.

The only problem with this entire debate is that both sides are trying to cite objective information for a subjective decision. Not that one shouldn't do research when buying a laptop, but it ultimately comes down to personal preference and there are machines in both camps capable of doing pretty much everything.

But I did notice you go to the "no games" arguement alot. Did he ever mention even playing games? I noticed its not in the first post in % of use, so why use that as an argument in this case?

[GreekGodX]

The only problem with this entire debate is that both sides are trying to cite objective information for a subjective decision. Not that one shouldn't do research when buying a laptop, but it ultimately comes down to personal preference and there are machines in both camps capable of doing pretty much everything.

But I did notice you go to the "no games" arguement alot. Did he ever mention even playing games? I noticed its not in the first post in % of use, so why use that as an argument in this case?

Jim you should win an award for best posts in this thread. You, shilala and a few others have some of the most relevant posts. No need for gaming on my end. I have a PS3 and my brother has a 360 so I got gaming covered.

A lot of people are right in saying buy what you like and are most happy/comfortable with. I like Apple the most. I'm most comfortable with a PC only because I've used it for so long. In the end I feel I'll be happy with a Apple.

Anyone know if any updates are coming out on either side? For example faster usb port? or anything like that?

I'm really enjoying the back and forth tho :tu

[Footbag]

Anyone know if any updates are coming out on either side? For example faster usb port? or anything like that?



SSUSB or USB 3.0 will be out sometime next year, likely later in the year. Don't know when it will hit the market though. SATA 3 should be a big performance boost as well, but will probably be included in the same redesigns as the SSUSB.

IT has been my experience that waiting for the next best thing in computers is futile.

[shilala]

How bout a link to the machine you've chosen so we can pick that apart?
That'll be fun. :D

[Footbag]

How bout a link to the machine you've chosen so we can pick that apart?
That'll be fun. :D

:tpd::D

[shilala]

(Side note: Does anyone else remember working an a TRS-80?)
In the 80's, one guy, Steve Jobs designed the machine, built the machine, and wrote the OS for Apple. It was not rocket surgery.
BASIC was open source. There was no graphics support.
I coded the graphics support for BASIC so I could create an interactive book that worked just like you'd read a book on a Kindle nowadays.
It was on Marine Biolgy.
I also coded music to make singing Christmas Cards that astounded people. MIDI was already there, just no BASIC support, so I coded it.
I won all sorts of accolades, and got four periods a day in middle school and high school to do genius stuff. So I did.
I smoked lots of dope, drank tons of beer, and played Galaga at Sheetz while I was supposed to be doing brilliant things.
It was awesome.

[Blueface]

IT has been my experience that waiting for the next best thing in computers is futile.

:tpd:

Most prophetic words in this thread.

[GreekGodX]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=MTM3NDczMDg

I know waiting is dumb as technology is dated shortly after you purchase anyway but 3.0 USB to me would make a huge difference. I thought it was supposed to come out around now?

[GreekGodX]

That link didn't save my configured laptop but i added the 7200RPM 320gb hdd. Antiglare screen, iWork, Aperture and the applecare.

[King James]

That link didn't save my configured laptop but i added the 7200RPM 320gb hdd. Antiglare screen, iWork, Aperture and the applecare.

how much is the HDD? you can probably get one 3rd party and install yourself for alot less.... it isn't that hard to do either. They made it harder with the unibody macs compared to the old ones, but still is fairly easy. Applecare is a must (ask Carlos! hahaha, although I think he may just use bestbuy warranty)

[GreekGodX]

how much is the HDD? you can probably get one 3rd party and install yourself for alot less.... it isn't that hard to do either. They made it harder with the unibody macs compared to the old ones, but still is fairly easy. Applecare is a must (ask Carlos! hahaha, although I think he may just use bestbuy warranty)

That's all I need. Open up my laptop to save some money on a hdd and f everything up. 50 bucks for the upgraded hdd..

Wish applecare covered accidental damage. Used that a few times on my Dell :(

[King James]

there is always the "it just stopped working" defense.... actually works quite well at Apple. hah

[GreekGodX]

there is always the "it just stopped working" defense.... actually works quite well at Apple. hah

That works until you use your laptop after taking a shower and not drying off good enough :r

[King James]

well dont do a hdd swap in the shower and you should be good :D

[GreekGodX]

well dont do a hdd swap in the shower and you should be good :D

Wise words :tu

[replicant_argent]

wait.. I can use my ....





nevermind.

[macpappy]

In the 80's, one guy, Steve Jobs designed the machine, built the machine, and wrote the OS for Apple. It was not rocket surgery.
BASIC was open source. There was no graphics support.
I coded the graphics support for BASIC so I could create an interactive book that worked just like you'd read a book on a Kindle nowadays.
It was on Marine Biolgy.
I also coded music to make singing Christmas Cards that astounded people. MIDI was already there, just no BASIC support, so I coded it.
I won all sorts of accolades, and got four periods a day in middle school and high school to do genius stuff. So I did.
I smoked lots of dope, drank tons of beer, and played Galaga at Sheetz while I was supposed to be doing brilliant things.
It was awesome.

And all this time I thought the TRS-80 was made by Tandy/Texas Instruments.

[goalie204]

That's all I need. Open up my laptop to save some money on a hdd and f everything up. 50 bucks for the upgraded hdd..

Wish applecare covered accidental damage. Used that a few times on my Dell :(

Installing a new hd is extremely easy, but if you're not someone who takes computers apart, don't bother. A 3rd party one is much less than the one apple will sell you. Now stop dragging this out and just buy it and lock/delete the thread, kthx :)

[Footbag]

You would get much better performance from an SSD over a HDD. HDD's are the current weak link in computer hardware. SSD's while still new and expensive are very fast. I'm picking one up right after Christmas. Hopefully the Intel's will get a price drop, or I'll get a gift card.

In looking at your build, it looks like you are spending $2500+. Wow! I knew Macs were expensive, but I honestly had no idea they were that expensive.

[T.G]

In the 80's, one guy, Steve Jobs designed the machine, built the machine, and wrote the OS for Apple. It was not rocket surgery.

IIRC, that was Wozniak, not Jobs. Jobs was more of the marketing type.

[goalie204]

You would get much better performance from an SSD over a HDD. HDD's are the current weak link in computer hardware. SSD's while still new and expensive are very fast. I'm picking one up right after Christmas. Hopefully the Intel's will get a price drop, or I'll get a gift card.

In looking at your build, it looks like you are spending $2500+. Wow! I knew Macs were expensive, but I honestly had no idea they were that expensive.

Solid state drives are great, and fast, but the size of drive you get for the money isn't worth it..yet. In time they'll come down in price, but for now, it's more economical to get a normal hard drive, which are still great, just not the latest and the greatest.

[Footbag]

Solid state drives are great, and fast, but the size of drive you get for the money isn't worth it..yet. In time they'll come down in price, but for now, it's more economical to get a normal hard drive, which are still great, just not the latest and the greatest.

Perhaps for the OP's macbook, but after the initial outlay, it's really not that much for the gain. You would have to settle for 128GB or pay a lot more for the large drive which probably isn't worth it. Yes they will be better in the future, but as I said before waiting for technology is futile.

I just built up an overclocked i7 photo-processing rig, and there is no better component to look for a performance gain. I'm considering going dual 80GB for my rig. Dual OS boot with a switch on the case and enough space on each drive for programs.

That said, 95% of users probably wouldn't notice the difference.

[goalie204]

That said, 95% of users probably wouldn't notice the difference.

exactly.

[shilala]

IIRC, that was Wozniak, not Jobs. Jobs was more of the marketing type.
You're right, it was Woz. Jobs left in 80-something then came back later.
Jobs sold the Apple to a shop, then he and Woz and a few other dudes cranked out 50 machines to fill their first order.

[shilala]

That link didn't save my configured laptop but i added the 7200RPM 320gb hdd. Antiglare screen, iWork, Aperture and the applecare.
The antiglare is a great idea. That glossy stuff drives me nuts.
I gagged on the price, too. Make sure you hit the refurbed site at apple.
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac?mco=MTY0MjUwOTE
You might be able to save a good chunk of money, even if you have to switch up a bit?

[gettysburgfreak]

I just got an Asus netbook for christmas and love it, have been playing with it non stop. Anyone have an idea where I can get MS office for Windows 7 cheap? I dont like the new version of Word, I was hoping someone might know where I could find Word 2000

[Red]

Mac = Not gay
Windows = Leaning towards gay

[GreekGodX]

Well I'm at the Apple store typing this from a macbook. Today might be the day :D

[Titan410]

Well I'm at the Apple store typing this from a macbook. Today might be the day :D

There's no going back now. I guess by now you're a new Macbook owner?

[eber]

you will not be dissapointed with the mac book, I have had mine for about a year and a half and have had no problems with it at all. :tu

[Titan410]

you will not be dissapointed with the mac book, I have had mine for about a year and a half and have had no problems with it at all. :tu

Same here. If I had it to do all over again I'd do it in a minute. I think that's the best thing anyone can say in retrospect about a purchase.

[GreekGodX]

Price is coming out to be the issue for me. You can get the same computer in Windows for just about half the price. It is driving me crazy. I priced out a HP and got the beats by Dr. Dre headphones and it was all still under $1800.

I should just give someone my card and say here buy me a laptop.

[mmblz]

Price is coming out to be the issue for me. You can get the same computer in Windows for just about half the price. It is driving me crazy. I priced out a HP and got the beats by Dr. Dre headphones and it was all still under $1800.

I should just give someone my card and say here buy me a laptop.

did you happen to see this other thread?
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26568

:r:r

[replicant_argent]

I saw white macbooks at Best Buy last week for 699.

[357]

Price is coming out to be the issue for me. You can get the same computer in Windows for just about half the price. It is driving me crazy. I priced out a HP and got the beats by Dr. Dre headphones and it was all still under $1800.

I should just give someone my card and say here buy me a laptop.

Unless you have an unnatural disregard for money, price is always a factor. That said, not all 91% of users buy Windows based computers for that reason alone.

[357]

Christos,

Just to help add to your dilema...
From HP's online store:

$1,492.98
HP dv6t Quad Edition
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Intel(R) Quad Core(TM) i7-720QM Processor (1.6GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB)
4GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm) from 2GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
320GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 230M
15.6" diagonal High Definition LED HP Brightview Widescreen Display (1366x768)
LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-RW with Double Layer Support
Webcam + Fingerprint Reader
Intel Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
System Recovery DVD with Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Microsoft(R) Office Home and Student 2007
3-year HP Care Pack Accidental Damage Protection Service

Saves you about $1000, provides better performance, includes Microsoft Office, and 3 year Accidental Damage Protection.

[Titan410]

Price is coming out to be the issue for me. You can get the same computer in Windows for just about half the price. It is driving me crazy. I priced out a HP and got the beats by Dr. Dre headphones and it was all still under $1800.

I should just give someone my card and say here buy me a laptop.

I think if you buy quality once you wont be sorry. The product will last and you will be happy with it.
You might be sorry if you try to skimp and get a second rate product.
I've used PC's all of my life. I switched to Mac in October 08 and never going back to a PC.

[goalie204]

Price is coming out to be the issue for me. You can get the same computer in Windows for just about half the price. It is driving me crazy. I priced out a HP and got the beats by Dr. Dre headphones and it was all still under $1800.

I should just give someone my card and say here buy me a laptop.

it is NOT the same computer, no matter how you look at it, spec for spec, dollar for dollar if you don't get that you'll never get it.

Just buy a windows machine and pat yourself on the back.

[Ratters]

Mac = Not gay
Windows = Leaning towards gay

I live near San Francisco. I know a lot of gay people. And yes, most of them use Macs. Just sayin.

[Fishbeadtwo]

Buy Mac and don't look bac! just saying.

[T.G]

I live near San Francisco. I know a lot of gay people. And yes, most of them use Macs. Just sayin.

Doesn't mean Darrell have a mac?
:lv












;s

[longknocker]

Doesn't mean Darrell have a mac?
:lv












;s
Adam: You're A "Brave" Soul!:r

[shilala]

Doesn't mean Darrell have a mac?
:lv

;s
Pretty close to San Francisco, too. Hmmm. :hm

[macpappy]

Just make a freakin decision and get over it!

Computers are tools. Buy something to fits your needs and budget. If you're worried about the price then don't buy a Mac. It's that simple. Despite all the rhetoric a computer is just a computer for most people. If you are not a techno-wienie or planning on doing high end mathematical calculations or graphics then either a Mac or a PC will probably do what you need to do.

There are pros and cons for both systems. Personally I've used Mac products since 1986. I worked in photojournalism and found the Mac, at the time, did what I needed to do better than what the PCs had to offer. I was a magazine editor with a printing company for 10 years and we used nothing but Macs to do the editing, layout and design. When the company moved to a digital workflow, the imagesetter was windows based but the pre-press software was all Mac based and they worked very well together and still does.

I am now self employed and I run all my financial needs on a Mac using Quickbooks Pro which the accounting firm I use recommended. They use both Macs and PCs by the way.

Again, if you are a student and money is an issue then buy the PC. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T BUY A MAC LATER when money is not an issue.

[Footbag]

it is NOT the same computer, no matter how you look at it, spec for spec, dollar for dollar if you don't get that you'll never get it.

Just buy a windows machine and pat yourself on the back.


Why not if you were to buy all of the same parts apple uses? Or if you chose you could upgrade each part to even better ones and still probably end up saving $1000+.

So I guess I don't get it, but would be interested in knowing it.

[elderboy02]

I should just give someone my card and say here buy me a laptop.

That is a good idea. Give me a call with your credit card number, expiry code, and the 3 digits. I cannot assure you that only a computer will be purchased. :r

[Footbag]

That is a good idea. Give me a call with your credit card number, expiry code, and the 3 digits. I cannot assure you that only a computer will be purchased. :r

But it may come packed with cigars!:r Do it!

[macpappy]

Why not if you were to buy all of the same parts apple uses? Or if you chose you could upgrade each part to even better ones and still probably end up saving $1000+.

So I guess I don't get it, but would be interested in knowing it.

You can't buy all the exact same parts that Apple uses.

[shilala]

Here's an option that really hasn't been explored carefully...
Go to delloutlet.com, buy a $299 netbook, and spend the other $2000 on some badass cigars.
It's a good thing there's not a poll, cause I'm pretty sure this would be pretty much unanimous. :tu
Either that, or just skip the computer altogether, borrow one from someone, and spend all $2300 on cigars.
That would be totally awesome. :D

[longknocker]

Here's an option that really hasn't been explored carefully...
Go to delloutlet.com, buy a $299 netbook, and spend the other $2000 on some badass cigars.
It's a good thing there's not a poll, cause I'm pretty sure this would be pretty much unanimous. :tu
Either that, or just skip the computer altogether, borrow one from someone, and spend all $2300 on cigars.
That would be totally awesome. :D

Scott: I Purchased A Used Dell Notebook with CD/DVD Player For About That Same Price! Still Going Strong After 2 Years!:banger

[GreekGodX]

Here's an option that really hasn't been explored carefully...
Go to delloutlet.com, buy a $299 netbook, and spend the other $2000 on some badass cigars.
It's a good thing there's not a poll, cause I'm pretty sure this would be pretty much unanimous. :tu
Either that, or just skip the computer altogether, borrow one from someone, and spend all $2300 on cigars.
That would be totally awesome. :D

That sounds like the easiest, best and least stressful choice. :tu

I would have a Mac right now if it weren't for the fact that the Apple store only has the laptops in the basic configurations. :td

[Footbag]

You can't buy all the exact same parts that Apple uses.

Short the motherboard, screen and case you can. Plus, it's an Intel designed socket. So you could probably get a similar Intel designed mobo as well. But for that price, I'd want an i7.

[shilala]

Scott: I Purchased A Used Dell Notebook with CD/DVD Player For About That Same Price! Still Going Strong After 2 Years!:banger

That sounds like the easiest, best and least stressful choice. :tu

That only took about 200 posts to come to the perfect solution.
We're getting really good at this. :D

[longknocker]

That only took about 200 posts to come to the perfect solution.
We're getting really good at this. :D

:r:tu

[Footbag]

That only took about 200 posts to come to the perfect solution.
We're getting really good at this. :D

Does that mean we get to help spend the extra $2000 on cigars?:r

[357]

That sounds like the easiest, best and least stressful choice. :tu

I would have a Mac right now if it weren't for the fact that the Apple store only has the laptops in the basic configurations. :td

Sounds lame. Spend $2500 on something you can't even test drive at their specialty store?

[mmblz]

Short the motherboard, screen and case you can.

multitouch trackpad???

[GreekGodX]

Sounds lame. Spend $2500 on something you can't even test drive at their specialty store?

Let me elaborate. All their models on the floor had the bells and whistles. But say you wanted a 3.06ghz processor, 500gb 7200rpm hdd, antiglare screen then you have to order. They don't carry a stock of laptops with different configurations for sale. If I wanted the 2.8 ghz processor, 500gb 5400rpm hdd and glossy screen I could have gotten my computer yesterday.

[Footbag]

multitouch trackpad???

My mouse/touchpad has buttons to do all of that stuff.:D

But seriously... Windows 7 is multi-touch compatible, but you have to touch the screen, not the touchpad. Of course it is only with certain select laptops.

I don't think the multitouch function will benefit PC users as much as Mac users though, due to the differences in the input between platforms. Mac users have difficulty learning to double-click, PC users have difficulty unlearning it.

[shilala]

Does that mean we get to help spend the extra $2000 on cigars?:r
That's where me and Greg are at, and I think Dan has Christos' cc#, so we're probably gonna have to pick a herf spot now. :banger

[longknocker]

That's where me and Greg are at, and I think Dan has Christos' cc#, so we're probably gonna have to pick a herf spot now. :banger:tu:banger

[shilala]

:tu:bangerSomeone should send Christos a notepad, pen and a pocket calculator, and at least invite him to the herf.
It only seems right. :tu

[goalie204]

can you put a thread on ignore so you dont have to see it ? if so, how?

[elderboy02]

That's where me and Greg are at, and I think Dan has Christos' cc#, so we're probably gonna have to pick a herf spot now. :banger

Christos doesn't know it, but when I was at the MI HERF earlier this month, I made a copy of his credit card like you see the cool guys do in the movies. I have been buying cigars on his card for a few weeks now :r

[King James]

My mouse/touchpad has buttons to do all of that stuff.:D

But seriously... Windows 7 is multi-touch compatible, but you have to touch the screen, not the touchpad. Of course it is only with certain select laptops.

I don't think the multitouch function will benefit PC users as much as Mac users though, due to the differences in the input between platforms. Mac users have difficulty learning to double-click, PC users have difficulty unlearning it.

what about all these demonstrated by His Steveness

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/multi-finger-macbook-trackpad-gestures-demonstrated-on-video/


edit: I still maintain this is an argument that will never be won.... but I can't help but play along anyways :)

[shilala]

Christos doesn't know it, but when I was at the MI HERF earlier this month, I made a copy of his credit card like you see the cool guys do in the movies. I have been buying cigars on his card for a few weeks now :r
Hook me and Greg up, or we're blowing the whistle.
;s

[macpappy]

My mouse/touchpad has buttons to do all of that stuff.:D
Mac users have difficulty learning to double-click, PC users have difficulty unlearning it.

I don't think that is particulary true. I've been using double-click on my Mac for years. In fact you can program your mouse to do different things with double-click.
What took me some time (about 30 minutes) was learning to RIGHT-CLICK using a Microsoft mouse when I took up World of Warcraft. The smart mouse for a Mac doesn't have a left button/right button. So I now have two wireless mice for my laptop.

[Resipsa]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/562/motivationalpostermacus.jpgmy kind of girl, :banger

Christos, CES is 1/7-1/10. I'd wait at least until then to see what's on the horizon. While in general I agree that waiting for new tech is a losing proposition, in this case I don't see what waiting one week to see what's coming out is going to hurt.

Tablets are going to be very hot this year, and if you're looking at Apple the long rumoured Apple Tablet is supposed to be coming soon.

[King James]

the long rumoured Apple Tablet is supposed to be coming soon.

don't remind me.... i don't think I really have the need for one....but it just seems like it will be so damn cool... I'll have to just resist

[GreekGodX]

I just increased my credit limit for you guys! Enjoy :) maybe a herf in Cuba? Or someplace with warm weather and a LCDH near. :D just make sure I get an aisle seat guys.

All seriousness I was going to order today but now it is probably a good idea to wait. I need a laptop but I can wait a week just to take a sneak peak. Tablet looks like it will be very nice.
Posted via Mobile Device

[shilala]

Christos, it's supposed to be called an iSlate and it looks like a Giant iPhone.
It's supposed to be unveiled on the 26th. No optical drive. No Keyboard.
I imagine its going to be incredibly cool, and I'm going to have to sell my spleen to get one, but it's not a work machine like you need for school, by any means.
It's a mutitasking iPhone. A tablet multitasking iPod Touch, basically.
It'll be an awesome $2000 netbook. Not at all what you need for school.
Plus drop it once, see ya.
Add to that, it's all screen, so they won't offer a breakage warranty, and you'll have to pay $400 for a Square Trade warranty.
You'd definately look cool with it though, so there's that. :)

[GreekGodX]

Dropping expensive anything = my expertise :r

[Blueface]

Plus drop it once, see ya.


Here is a novel idea....................don't drop it.;)

If that new Apple tablet is anything remotely close to the iPhone, you would be shocked. I have dropped mine from as much as 4-5 feet, at least on as many occasions and not a crack or malfunction. Granted, I use a plastic shell for it but just as they have those shells for the MacBook, I am certain the tablets will have them available also.

So, as dropping concerns go, perhaps you were referring to PC's.:r

[shilala]

Here is a novel idea....................don't drop it.;)

If that new Apple tablet is anything remotely close to the iPhone, you would be shocked. I have dropped mine from as much as 4-5 feet, at least on as many occasions and not a crack or malfunction. Granted, I use a plastic shell for it but just as they have those shells for the MacBook, I am certain the tablets will have them available also.

So, as dropping concerns go, perhaps you were referring to PC's.:r
I've launched my iPhone a couple dozen times too, Carlos. It's tough. I've always had a case though. A Frogz, then a Noel, and now an Otterbox.
The iPhone is little. The iSlate is supposed to have a 10" 720p resolution screen. Drop it on it's face on a little rock and it's history. It's just physics.
And Christos is gonna be running from class to class.
I'm old and stupid and go real slow and I still drop my phone at least once a day. :)
I do agree with you that they are incredibly durable. I love this thing. Lisa loves hers, too. They're incredible.
That's why I gotta have the 3G iSlate. They're supposed to have a no 3G and a 3G version. My guess is I can yank my sim card and have a ten inch iPhone. That's easily worth 2k.
From the reviews, it's not likely to multitask or do anything else the touch and iphone doesn't do. That wouldn't really make sense, but that's what they're saying.
At any rate, it's supposed to be unvieled on the 19th or 26th.
And I want one. Bad. :D
But it aint a college computer. Or a pc.
Come to think of it, I don't think I ever dropped my laptops. But the iSlate ain't a laptop, either. :)

[Blueface]

I must confess and I do beg of all, PLEASE don't tell my wife.
I just had sex with my MacBook.:r:r:r

[eber]

:r:r:r:r:r ^^^^^^

[Wolfgang]

Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,5
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.53 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 4 GB

Never going back.

[357]

bump for the sake of stirring the manure...

[Blueface]

bump for the sake of stirring the manure...

I just had sex with my MacBook again.
Told it that it is in trouble now. Took a blue pill. Bring it on baby!!!

[VirtualSmitty]

I just had sex with my MacBook again.
Told it that it is in trouble now. Took a blue pill. Bring it on baby!!!

There's an app for that.

[T.G]

I just had sex with my MacBook again.
Told it that it is in trouble now. Took a blue pill. Bring it on baby!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqN6749QqtA

[Blueface]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqN6749QqtA

Can't let the wife see that.
She may finally move up to a Mac herself.:r:r:r

[KenS]

Had to bump this thread just to share this: PC Girl vs. Mac Girl (http://www.thefirstwonderoftheworld.com/2010/01/pc-girl-vs-mac-girl.html)

Ain't they cute? :r :r

[ir13]

Waiting till the event on the 27th myself before i decide to buy a macbook.

[doctorcue]

I just had sex with my MacBook again.
Told it that it is in trouble now. Took a blue pill. Bring it on baby!!!

Well beyond the human-PC freakiness... at least you'll be safe as there aren't any replicating viruses from a Mac out there. :D

[macpappy]

The thread that will not die!

[GreekGodX]

Waiting till the event on the 27th myself before i decide to buy a macbook.

I might have to buy a new car so the laptop purchase is being delayed for now.. Although I wouldn't mind apple throwing in the quad core into the macbook in the mean time :D

[longknocker]

I might have to buy a new car so the laptop purchase is being delayed for now.. Although I wouldn't mind apple throwing in the quad core into the macbook in the mean time :D

Check The Dealerships, Christos; They Might Throw In A "Free" Mac!:tu

[goalie204]

april 27th new mac announcement, probably quadcore in laptops.

[GreekGodX]

april 27th new mac announcement, probably quadcore in laptops.

Please tell me you mean January and not April. I can't wait until April :td

[ir13]

The next event is on Jan 27th Christos.

[Resipsa]

The next event is on Jan 27th Christos.:dr

want to see the pricing on the tablet. I've heard it's going to be in the $1,000 range, which seemed too pricey for my wants, that is until the ereader I was looking at (the Que from plastic logic), showed up at CES with a price tag of $800. If I'm looking at spending 800 on an ereader, than I'm spending 1,000 on a tablet instead

[ir13]

The latest ive read on the tablet is that all the parts arent ready and they are going to release the tablet in march or april, but you never know with apple.

[Blueface]

I might have to buy a new car so the laptop purchase is being delayed for now.. Although I wouldn't mind apple throwing in the quad core into the macbook in the mean time :D

:r:r:r
13 pages of Apple v. PC and now you are putting it off?
We'll kill you!:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IV2UuwHrU0