Thoughts on cigars.

[Whipper Snapper]

Cigars are tasty. Blending is a mystery to me and something I want to figure out. How can someone put a bunch of random leaves together and make the cigar taste totally different than the next guy putting a bunch of random leaves together? In fact, how can they do that with Puros mind you?

Speaking of puros, as a general rule, they are almost always my favorite. Domincans third on the list, then nics, and well, an island south of miami is usually first.

In my humble opinion, the smaller sizes are always the best. I like the draw a little bit on the tighter side of things. Typically, cigars with smaller rg's give me less burn problems as well. I'm probably 38-44 rg for life.

Speaking of burn problems, it's always fun to watch a cigar correct itself.

In my opinion, cigar smoking is always best with friends. I've enjoyed some fine cigars by myself, but the cigars that have most wowed me have almost always been in the company of others.

Give me a full flavored medium bodied cigar over a "harsh" full bodied cigar any day.

Why do rolled up dried plants taste so good? Of course, this isn't always the rule. I've had some cigars that taste terrible.

I find it interesting that we tend to pick up different nuances when we smoke. Why do I taste coffee, dirt, chocolate, cinnamon, black pepper, butter-cream, saltiness and the like from a burning dead plant? I'm not sure, but I'm sure glad I do.

I used to think "the best cigar is the one I'm smoking now"
But then, a bunch of folks around these parts gave me a bunch of cool cigars to smoke and now I generally think "the best cigar were the one's I was smoking then." Seriously. Habanos are stinkin' good.

I do wish sometimes that AF curly head deluxe's were all I was still acquainted with. It'd be a lot easier on my wallet that way. But my gosh, that MC #2 dunhill selection at the PPP I tried sure was amazing. I'm glad I got to experience that and countless other drop your draw smokes.

When I think of cigars, it doesn't take me long to start thinking about the folks here at CA and relationships I've made over the years. I long to meet some of the folks here more than I'll ever long for that next euphoric cigar experience.

Speaking of euphoric cigar experiences, my first was with a Bolivar Royal Corona. Absolutely delicious.

The last euphoric cigar experience I had was from a Tat lancero of sorts that I wrote a review on. Best NC that I've maybe EVER smoked. I enjoyed it that much.

Somewhere in between the experiences, I tumbled down the slope, crawled my way back up, only to fall back down again.

Overall, Cigars are really good.
I came back to CA for the people...

[thebiglebowski]

deep thoughts with tecnorobo? :banger

[md4958]

Overall, Cigars are really good.
I came back to CA for the people...

No disrespect to the rest of your thoughts, but this is the most meaningful line in the entire post for me.
:tu

[Whipper Snapper]

No disrespect to the rest of your thoughts, but this is the most meaningful line in the entire post for me.
:tu

None Taken.
It seriously isn't the cigars that keeps me coming back here.
Most of the time I can't afford to smoke any cigars.
Even so, I hang out here because of, well, the people.

[Freelee711]

Speaking of burn problems, it's always fun to watch a cigar correct itself.


It bothers me a ton when a cigar doesn't burn correctly and I have to refrain myself from touching it up, haha. But that's just me.

[G G]

Nice post.:tu

[JJG]

You and I have a lot of similar opinions! My first euphoric cigar experience was also a Bolivar, and my last great cigar was also a Tat. On the other hand, I'm not 100% sold on puros (except for the Cuban kind) nor am I sold on Nics.

One thing I miss out on is smoking with buddies. I'm a lone smoker. None of my friends enjoy cigars so its kind of a solitary experience for me. I'm thankful for CA Though, the one place I canshare my favorite hobby with others.

Cheers!

:chr

[Namerifrats]

I agree! I'm a lone smoker myself, don't really know anybody that smokes cigars. I got my dad smoking them sometimes, when I go down to visit my parents, my dad and I usually sit on the back porch and smoke on. Other than that, it's just me sitting by myself. I'm hoping to meet a few locals and maybe find some people to smoke with on occasion. Been in contact with a couple from here, but in the process of moving this week and over the weekend. Been tied up a bit.

[paris1129]

+1 lone smoker. Most of my buddies do not smoke, and the one that does on a rare occasion only does it when he's with me and I convince to have one with me. One of the reasons I recently joined here was in the hopes of eventually meeting up with some locals to enjoy a cigar together.

[CigarGuy]

None Taken.
It seriously isn't the cigars that keeps me coming back here.
Most of the time I can't afford to smoke any cigars.
Even so, I hang out here because of, well, the people.

I just started to post, well today actually. It is because of this forum and people that I know as much about cigars as I do. I have found some phenominal sticks due to this forum.

[ZenSilk]

I hate cigars and I think they need to be eradicated from the Earth! :2






:gl Nazis!

[JJG]

I also prefer the smaller rg cigars. I'll occasionally go 48-50 if I want something big, but generally prefer smokes in 38-42 range. A corona is the ideal
size for me.

[shilala]

I can speak to the "how's come different tobaccos taste" thing.
I can grow two identical plants next to each other and make them both taste different.
It's all about "you are what you eat".
There's a fuente movie out there that shows how the guys choose tobacco for their blends.
Burn a leaf, whiff it up, burn a few more, and you can see in your mind's eye what they'll be like together.
Roll a few up and see if it works.
If it sucks, tweaking ensues.
Same as cooking, really. It's gotta be tons of fun being trapped in a gorgeous tropical climate playing with tobacco leaves all day. :)

[JJG]

I've always wanted to know more about the drying/curing process of the leaves. It seems like the fermentation would have the biggest effect on the final outcome of how the tobacco tastes.

I always hear people say it's the soil that gives Cuban tobacco it's unique flavor, but I'm guessing the curing process has a big part in it too. I mean, most NC manufacturers use Cuban seed tobacco. so if they're both growing the same exact tobacco, the difference in taste has to come from the soil, the curing process, or both.

[shilala]

I've always wanted to know more about the drying/curing process of the leaves. It seems like the fermentation would have the biggest effect on the final outcome of how the tobacco tastes.

I always hear people say it's the soil that gives Cuban tobacco it's unique flavor, but I'm guessing the curing process has a big part in it too. I mean, most NC manufacturers use Cuban seed tobacco. so if they're both growing the same exact tobacco, the difference in taste has to come from the soil, the curing process, or both.

Most cuban tobacco doesn't get any curing/aging to mention, compared to nc tobacco. That's why it sucks so bad.
It's picked this year and rolled next year. Aging happens in our humidors.
There are some instances where they'll sit on some tobacco and cure it for premium offerings that you can expect to pay $100 a stick for five year old tobacco.
Forgive my negative tone, but it is what it is. (And please realize that I'm speaking in generalities, and am full aware there are stellar cuban exceptions.)
On the other far end of the spectrum is the Fuente family who takes great care and pride in their aging and curing process, and take lots of years from field to rolling, then aging cigars even further in optimal conditions.
The care and crafstmanship yields a premium product of inherent value and exceptional smokability.

Which brings me around to this...
In years past, the Fuente family bought all cuban tobacco and rolled it here in the states, creating an incredible cigar and heritage.
I can only imagine the amazing cigars they could produce were the cuban tobacco available to them now.
That tradition and heritage doesn't exist (for the most part) in Cuban product.
It shows in the final product. I've smoked literally hundreds of fresh "premium" cc's, and they literally suck. Try a fresh Guantanmero. Or any Guantanamero, and you'll see wherew I'm coming from. ;)

It's a real shame that cc's aren't all that they could be.
That said, I'd love to be able to try a fresh rolled cc while I was standing in Cuba just to see where the process goes to hell. The experience would be incredible, and invaluable.

I'm becoming more of a cc fan as years pass, and starting to appreciate all the pains botls have to go through to get a good cigar.
It's easier for me (and I'm lazy) to go buy a box of Litto Gomez Diez or Arturo Fuente cigars, because I know they're going to be of excellent craftsmanship and excellent smokability when they get to my house.
I don't have to babysit them for 10 years till they get good.
I also realize and respect that that's half the fun of being a hardcore cc fan.
The struggle to find a very good smokable cuban is a lot of fun if you've got the time.
I can say that because I do it, and it is fun. :tu
So to wind up all the negatives and turn it to a positive, I enjoy both sides. I also look forward to the day when cuban tobacco is more available to craftsmen inside and outside cuba, because I think some absolutely incredible things can happen. :tu

[scoot]

Cigars are tasty. Blending is a mystery to me and something I want to figure out. How can someone put a bunch of random leaves together and make the cigar taste totally different than the next guy putting a bunch of random leaves together? In fact, how can they do that with Puros mind you?


It seems to me that it would be easy to put a bunch of random leaves together and make a cigar that tastes different to the next guys. However, the art of blending, and the skill of talented blenders is being able to choose very specific leaves and bring them together in order to achieve a predetermined result

A monkey could choose leaves at random and call it a cigar blend. But to be able to predict what specific leaf combination will produce a specific profile and then produce that cigar is what it is to be a true blender. It is something that comes from a life of working with tobaccos.

[icehog3]

Me like cigar. :)

[Snake Hips]

I've always wanted to know more about the drying/curing process of the leaves. It seems like the fermentation would have the biggest effect on the final outcome of how the tobacco tastes.

I always hear people say it's the soil that gives Cuban tobacco it's unique flavor, but I'm guessing the curing process has a big part in it too. I mean, most NC manufacturers use Cuban seed tobacco. so if they're both growing the same exact tobacco, the difference in taste has to come from the soil, the curing process, or both.
They're not using the same tobacco, in any sense of the word. The non-Cuban companies are using tobacco from seeds that came off the island in the early '60s, and that tobacco has changed with breeding and interbreeding, and natural changes in seed stock from generation to generation/year to year. The Cubans have long since stopped using the tobacco they were using in the early '60s; since then they've phased out about 3 or 4 different generations of primary-use tobacco, replaced by new interbred tobaccos. They used Criollo and Corojo at the time the non-Cuban makers absconded with the Cuban seeds, and some Pelo de Oro. In the '80s, through interbreeding and genetic tinkering they created and began to grow Habana P.R., Criollo 98 and Corojo 99. In the early '90s they interbred and tinkered some more and came up with Habana 2000, Habana 92 and Habana "Vuelta Arriba." About 10 years ago they interbred and tinkered some more and introduced Sancti Spiritus 96. Recently, they interbred and tinkered some more and came up with Criollo 2006 and Capero No. 1 and have been testing them for use, to see if they might replace the current generation tobaccos.

So, knowing what the poor Cubans have done in that 50-year time frame, one can only imagine what kind of tinkering has been done and plant evolution that has happened on the non-Cuban side of the equation, so you can hardly say that they use the same tobacco, and a manufacturer claim of "Cuban seed" is pretty meaningless.

@shilala
I respect your opinion and experience of Cuban tobacco, and more than wholeheartedly understand your frustration with it. But, may I correct you on one thing? Cuban tobacco isn't rushed out quite so fast as you say; the tobacco takes three years from the field to begin appearing in cigars, and furthermore, since 2006, they've implemented aged tobaccos into regular production cigars; three years aged I think. However, I can't argue with the lack of heritage and paternal passion found in the family operations outside of Cuba, nor can I argue with the idea that there is so much wasted potential, but I needed to say that there is more time put into the tobacco, especially in the present :)

[Whipper Snapper]

Me like cigar. :)


Me like Tom
(in a completely heterosexual way)

[Whipper Snapper]

Me like Gurkha :)

Something about that sounds fishy Tom...

[JJG]

oh wow, I didn't realize the "Cuban seed" tobacco being grown in other countries was from such old stock. Is it that hard to smuggle out some more recent seeds? Considering the financial benefits to be gained from doing so, I would think someone would have done so by now.

[Snake Hips]

oh wow, I didn't realize the "Cuban seed" tobacco being grown in other countries was from such old stock. Is it that hard to smuggle out some more recent seeds? Considering the financial benefits to be gained from doing so, I would think someone would have done so by now.
It certainly is that hard to smuggle out seeds. Certain tobacco farms are relegated to producing seed stock rather than tobacco in a very specialized system, as the farms that grow for leaf grow plants that do not seed or something like that (this is from what I remember reading in places, I could be wrong about that); for example, one of the major benefits of the new Capero No. 1 strain is that it does not even flower.

The farms that grow seed in Cuba are very highly-guarded, to the extent that only a few individuals even know where they are. Tobacco fields look like tobacco fields, but only the farmer and the very high-ups in Cubatabaco know which ones grow the seed stock, and the farms themselves, let alone the seed stock farms, aren't just openly available. Visitors to Cuba, unless granted particular permission for some particularly good reason, cannot visit any tobacco farms, regardless of their purpose. Señor Robaina's farm is the most commonly visited (at least, I haven't seen or heard of any other farms ever visited; whenever a tobacco farm is visited in Cuba in whatever article, it's Don Alejandro's), and that's a wrapper leaf farm. The only thing that people come away with on those visits are occasionally some cigars the vegueros sneak to them on the way out, or gifts that Señor Robaina gives them himself. With that, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think the seed stocks themselves are kept somewhere else even more secure, such as at El Instituto de Investigaciones del Tabaco in Havana.

So smuggling seeds out of Cuba sounds a little harder than one might think on the surface, especially since one would have to abscond with a hefty amount to make the endeavor productive or profitable.

[Whipper Snapper]

Who wants to smuggle seeds out of cuba with me?
I'll build a sailboat and see ya'll in miami a week from now. We'll set our sails due south!
:r

[Snake Hips]

Who wants to smuggle seeds out of cuba with me?
I'll build a sailboat and see ya'll in miami a week from now. We'll set our sails due south!
:r
I'm down; we'll be rich, see, rich!

[icehog3]

Who wants to smuggle seeds out of cuba with me?
I'll build a sailboat and see ya'll in miami a week from now. We'll set our sails due south!
:r

I'll get right on that, Gilligan. ;)

I'm down; we'll be rich, see, rich!

Better bring the soil, climate and all the other intangibles back with ya too. ;)

[Whipper Snapper]

I'll get right on that, Gilligan. ;)



Better bring the soil, climate and all the other intangibles back with ya too. ;)

I better build a frickin' big boat.

This is about par. An insightful post has quickly turned into banter.
I guess I should not expect anything less from myself.

[icehog3]

I better build a frickin' big boat.

This is about par. An insightful post has quickly turned into banter.
I guess I should not expect anything less from myself.

Insightful according to whom?


;) :r :r

[shilala]

Insightful according to whom?


;) :r :r
I thought it started getting good when we were headed down the "Ginger or MaryAnn?" road with this.
I'm staying tuned, just in case. :tu

[Snake Hips]

Better bring the soil, climate and all the other intangibles back with ya too. ;)
That won't be hard...you just wait...

[Whipper Snapper]

Insightful according to whom?


;) :r :r

Alright, Alright.
I get it!
The next time I try to talk about cigars in a half way intelligible manner...









I'll just skip straight to talking about building a sailboat so we can sail to cuba from florida and steal their tobacco seed.

[icehog3]

Alright, Alright.
I get it!
The next time I try to talk about cigars in a half way intelligible manner...


I'll just skip straight to talking about building a sailboat so we can sail to cuba from florida and steal their tobacco seed.

You do realize that in some third world countries they punish thieves by cutting off their hands, right?

But then you could start your own banter thread.

"The Official Banter With 'Stumpy' " thread. ;)

[Whipper Snapper]

You do realize that in some third world countries they punish thieves by cutting off their hands, right?

But then you could start your own banter thread.

"The Official Banter With 'Stumpy' " thread. ;)

It's all for the good of the populous! Think of Robin Hood.
He stole and gave to the poor, right?
I'd be stealing to give to the cigar community as a whole.

And, being able to have my own banter thread would be amazing. However, if I had two stumps instead of hands, I'm afraid most of my banter would look like this.

,;;ldsf mnsldf;kkm km;k;ml kklre;ls.xs
kldefklreds;;sd
dsfkierpds;kdskdskioes;ssedrf
;pkiwjedsf

[icehog3]

It's all for the good of the populous! Think of Robin Hood.
He stole and gave to the poor, right?
I'd be stealing to give to the cigar community as a whole.

A lot of the cigar community appears to be getting Habanos without stealing, Whippersnapper. ;)

And, being able to have my own banter thread would be amazing. However, if I had two stumps instead of hands, I'm afraid most of my banter would look like this.

,;;ldsf mnsldf;kkm km;k;ml kklre;ls.xs
kldefklreds;;sd
dsfkierpds;kdskdskioes;ssedrf
;pkiwjedsf

Good point! :r

[Whipper Snapper]

A lot of the cigar community appears to be getting Habanos without stealing, Whippersnapper. ;)



Good point! :r

Tell ya what Tom. I've got a better idea.
I'm gonna build a Steamboat instead, and take it up the Missouri, through the Mississippi, and finally into the Illinois river, show up on your doorstep, and....































Ask you if you want to help me build a sailboat to sail to Cuba in.

[icehog3]

Tell ya what Tom. I've got a better idea.
I'm gonna build a Steamboat instead, and take it up the Missouri, through the Mississippi, and finally into the Illinois river, show up on your doorstep, and....


Ask you if you want to help me build a sailboat to sail to Cuba in.

Sure, just let me see if Mr. and Mrs. Howell want to tag along.