Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues

[covetry]

I am a young guy, 26 years old now, and I know many of you older guys have already dealt with insurance companies. Hell, one of you may sell life insurance yourself, so you could have a unique perspective on my question.

If I'm purchasing life insurance policy and I put down that I am a non-smoker (which, lets face it, we don't consider ourselves "smokers" in the usual sense of the word) and God forbid, I find out one day that I'm gonna die from cancer of the stomach or esophagus and lets say I do pass... will the insurance company be able to use my blog and say: "Oh he lied, he is a smoker, and it obviously contributed to his death. Sorry Mrs. Rocco we're denying your payout." ?

This is troubling for me, since I obviously have a cigar presence online, and even though I've never smoked cigarettes a day in my life and there is probably very little chance I will die of any cigar related illness, I worry they will do a quick search and use that against my wife in the event she ever needed to collect on the policy.

Anyone have any thoughts on this or, even better, experience with such a situation?

Thanks in advance.

[wayner123]

I am a young guy, 26 years old now, and I know many of you older guys have already dealt with insurance companies. Hell, one of you may sell life insurance yourself, so you could have a unique perspective on my question.

If I'm purchasing life insurance policy and I put down that I am a non-smoker (which, lets face it, we don't consider ourselves "smokers" in the usual sense of the word) and God forbid, I find out one day that I'm gonna die from cancer of the stomach or esophagus and lets say I do pass... will the insurance company be able to use my blog and say: "Oh he lied, he is a smoker, and it obviously contributed to his death. Sorry Mrs. Rocco we're denying your payout." ?

This is troubling for me, since I obviously have a cigar presence online, and even though I've never smoked cigarettes a day in my life and there is probably very little chance I will die of any cigar related illness, I worry they will do a quick search and use that against my wife in the event she ever needed to collect on the policy.

Anyone have any thoughts on this or, even better, experience with such a situation?

Thanks in advance.


Does your insurance provider require a blood or urine test?

[RightAJ]

I have heard of some insurence companies differentiating between the two... you may want to just give them a call and state your case. Good luck (fingers crossed)

aj

[e-man67]

My insurance tests and states the if you have used tobacco in the last 12 months it qualifies you as a tobacco user...I pay $25 extra per pay period (x 2 weeks) to smoke cigars. I may smoke 2 a week in the winter months and usually 5-9 per week in the warmer months (more like 5).

[covetry]

Does your insurance provider require a blood or urine test?

No.

[PeteSB75]

I would not call them. If you are going through a broker, most people do, talk to him about it. Remember that you are stating your physical health/state at the time of the policy writing.

Things will obviously change, like you could take up cigar smoking.They will likely require a blood/CO2 test to check if you smoke, so don't for at least a month before that happens.

Once the policy is written, it's a different question, as they can't take it away based on an increase in risk factors, or we'd all lose out getting older (biggest risk factor of all).

[elderboy02]

I am subscribing to this thread. I also was starting to think about getting life ins.

[T.G]

This has been covered on other forums over the years and often times it ends up getting heated...

Best logical advice is that rather than trying to hide it/not claim it/cheat the insurance company is to simply shop around and find an insurance company that differentiates between the various forms of tobacco use. There are some that only have a minimal increase in rates for cigar smokers as compared to cigarette smokers. Then you're covered and you have nothing to worry about.

[T.G]

Once the policy is written, it's a different question, as they can't take it away based on an increase in risk factors, or we'd all lose out getting older (biggest risk factor of all).

Actually, most, if not all, of them can cancel you within a certain period of time (like a few years) - after that, most can't.

Difference between getting older and smoking is that getting older you have no choice in the matter. Smoking is a voluntarily chosen and assumed known health risk.

[wayner123]

This has been covered on other forums over the years and often times it ends up getting heated...

Best logical advice is that rather than trying to hide it/not claim it/cheat the insurance company is to simply shop around and find an insurance company that differentiates between the various forms of tobacco use. There are some that only have a minimal increase in rates for cigar smokers as compared to cigarette smokers. Then you're covered and you have nothing to worry about.

:tpd:

This is sort of what I was getting at. If they don't require a blood test, then they might not consider cigars tobacco use. Just talk to your agent. And I use the motto, it's better safe than sorry.

[T.G]

Actually, most, if not all, of them can cancel you within a certain period of time (like a few years) - after that, most can't.

Difference between getting older and smoking is that getting older you have no choice in the matter. Smoking is a voluntarily chosen and assumed known health risk.



Oh, and BTW, just to add to that...

If the insurance company cancels your policy due to tobacco use or refuses you because you claimed no tobacco use and they caught you with a blood test, then you have to declare on any future policy that you might apply for, that you have been refused coverage and why (if requested by the potential insurance company). This could quickly snowball on you into considerably higher rates than had you just found a carrier that would insure you for a little bit extra per quarter.

[covetry]

I appreciate all the insight so far! I am definitely going to let my broker know about my cigar smoking and reservations and see what he says. I'm not as worried now as I was before.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer me!

[Zanaspus]

I sold insurance a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away. My first call would be to you state bureau of insurance. THEY are the true arbiters of what qualifies as misrepresentation and the statutes on it. Should you find there is a finite statute on misrepresentation (which is what you did, like it or not. Please don't flame me, it's the truth), then relax. If there is no finite statute on misrepresentation, I would shop for a company who does not consider cigar smoking as smoking in the normal sense.

Again, no disrespect, and I don't mean for this to get hot and heavy, but if you smoke cigars and answer "no" to a smoking question, it's just a legal fact.

[Zanaspus]

Also, if the person who sold it to you says it's ok, then you're golden. The burden would now rest on your agent and his Errors & Omissions insurance.

[covetry]

I sold insurance a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away. My first call would be to you state bureau of insurance. THEY are the true arbiters of what qualifies as misrepresentation and the statutes on it. Should you find there is a finite statute on misrepresentation (which is what you did, like it or not. Please don't flame me, it's the truth), then relax. If there is no finite statute on misrepresentation, I would shop for a company who does not consider cigar smoking as smoking in the normal sense.

Again, no disrespect, and I don't mean for this to get hot and heavy, but if you smoke cigars and answer "no" to a smoking question, it's just a legal fact.

None taken. And I know it is lying, although they are really looking to target cig smokers. I was just curious as to how some have handled it. I don't want to get a ridiculous rate because I put down 'yes' because the risk isn't anywhere close to the same between me and a smoker. I have yet to hear of any cigar-only smoker dying of a cigar related illness, although I'm sure there are some...

Thank you kindly for your advice.

[Zanaspus]

If the company says cigar smoking = smoking, find another one. There's a policy for every sensible risk group. :)

[T.G]

Also, if the person who sold it to you says it's ok, then you're golden. The burden would now rest on your agent and his Errors & Omissions insurance.

While I do agree with you in principle, personally, I wouldn't want to base the belief that I would be covered when I shouldn't be all on a "he said / she said" argument. Now, maybe if it was in writing, it might, depending on the wording, be a bit more comforting to me to try and base my policy coverage on a mistake, but, again, maybe not even then. I see no point making my beneficiaries have to potentially get attorneys involved when it could have been easily and cheaply avoided. :2

[captain53]

Insurance 101 - Find a way not to pay.
Insurance 102 - Look for false information on application
Insurance 103 - Smoking related death check around and see if he used Tobacco and last time I checked Cigars were Tobacco
Masters Degree - See if he was buying cigars, ask neighbors and friends, ask family, and keep checking till you find a way out of paying.
Insurance PHd - Tell the Mrs and Kids too bad!;s

:td:2

[MarkinAZ]

Hello Anthony,

I would simply have an open conversation with your broker as mentioned above regarding your tobacco use. Your young and your broker should have a good stable of life insurance carriers to choose from that offer your age group a good premium for a life policy.

If a carrier had any feeling that you use tobacco, a good investigator could ascertain and resolve that issue:)

[SilverFox]

In my opinion the simple answer is yes.

I told them 10 years ago that I was a tobacco user..............Cigars it changed my premium but I know that if something happens there is no way out. Full disclosure is the way to go.

I fully agree about talking to the broker and seeing if there are different rates for different usage levels.

The same question about Alcohol was asked of me.......do you use Alcohol I said yes.

Hell they even asked about drug use.........I simply asked for clarification..........as in I have tried Marijuana in the past (way past) but don't and won't use it going forward so that was a no.

[K Baz]

Personally I prefer full disclosure.

In my area its have you used any form of tobacco in the past 12 months - if yes smoker.

They do have a couple of companies that have cigar smoker rates. But it depends on the amount of cigars. If you smoking 50 cigars a year they will class you a smoker in my area.

I would personally and I have declared my smoking use and it costs me 15 $ a month more but thats cheap in my world for peace of mind.

[Blueface]

Have not read the other responses as pressed to leave.
However, did want to address your question.
I happen to be a manager for a fraud investigation operation for an insurance company.
As such, I am very familiar with the claims side.

Here is a word of caution for you, "void ab initio".
Many, if not all policies, contain language relative to misrepresentations in an application for insurance.
If the misrepresentations are deemed to be "material" to accepting the risk or rating the risk, most states will generally uphold that void ab initio, in essence rescinding the policy from its inception.

So, you never want to lie in an application for insurance, particularly if you have a blog that provides evidence to the contrary to what you have stated.
I can tell you that I smoked a bunch of cigars at a herf in Chicago, then was tested immediately thereafter for a life policy and I had as minimal findings as my wife who doesn't smoke cigars at all. I told them I am an occasional cigar smoker, which is what I truly am. On any occasion I can, I do.:D

How you proceed, let your conscious be your guide.

[jkim05]

This is a very difficult question both in terms of ethics and law because the question is purposely vague. I work in the industry, so I'm well aware of the ins and outs of the both the underwriting process and the claims aspect. Shoot me a pm, I should be able to answer any questions you have.

[SoCalSmoker]

Here is a link to an insurance broker's blog that discusses Life insurance and cigar smoking which can shed some light on frequent and infrequent cigar use.

I have no alliliation with Ed Hinerman but I did purchase Life insurance a few years ago from him and he is very informative and a straight shooter.
He knows the companies that have the best policies for cigar smokers.
I think if you are seriously looking for a policy he will help even if you don't buy it from him.
Look around his site, it helped me.
He's located in Salida, CO.
http://hinermangroup.com/blog/category/cigar-smokers/
I get nothing from him if you look at his site or do business with him.
Good luck.

[Blueface]

BTW,
Just to add to my "let your conscious be your guide" comment.

Think of it this way, you tell them you don't smoke, you save money on your premium and in the long term, make out like a bandit.
For that to be possible, there has got to be a flip side. The flip side here is when you lie or misrepresent information on an insurance application, you face risks as I alluded to, such as your policy possibly being declared void.

Always best to come clean, even if it costs you more since the risks seem to outweigh the rewards.

Just like this ethical issue there is the one every year, during open enrollment for benefits. My company gives a credit for non smokers. I have always declared myself a smoker, even if referring to cigars and not cigarettes, which I never touch the latter.

[covetry]

Have not read the other responses as pressed to leave.
However, did want to address your question.
I happen to be a manager for a fraud investigation operation for an insurance company.
As such, I am very familiar with the claims side.

Here is a word of caution for you, "void ab initio".
Many, if not all policies, contain language relative to misrepresentations in an application for insurance.
If the misrepresentations are deemed to be "material" to accepting the risk or rating the risk, most states will generally uphold that void ab initio, in essence rescinding the policy from its inception.

So, you never want to lie in an application for insurance, particularly if you have a blog that provides evidence to the contrary to what you have stated.
I can tell you that I smoked a bunch of cigars at a herf in Chicago, then was tested immediately thereafter for a life policy and I had as minimal findings as my wife who doesn't smoke cigars at all. I told them I am an occasional cigar smoker, which is what I truly am. On any occasion I can, I do.:D

How you proceed, let your conscious be your guide.

Thank you for your intimate insight into the issue. I appreciate the help.

[BengalMan]

Prudential takes cigar smokers as preferred non-smokers. They come to your house, take blood, etc, still non-smoker rates.

[BillyCigars]

Prudential takes cigar smokers as preferred non-smokers.

:tpd:

[St. Lou Stu]

Prudential takes cigar smokers as preferred non-smokers. They come to your house, take blood, etc, still non-smoker rates.

Ian,
Thanks for the tip!!
I actually followed through on the Prudential thing and took the physical, bloodwork, blah, blah, blah....

This week I got a call that everything was approved for BETTER than I was quoted. I was quoted a preferred non-smoker rate and after my physical underwriting ended up writing my policy at a preferred non-tobacco rate. In layman's terms... another 50% savings.:tu

Folks, If your looking for life insurance Prudential is the way to go if you want to be honest and have a policy written under truthful circumstances. This ended up being cheaper than the life insurance that I have through my employer. That policy isn't written based off of physical results though.

[ckay]

I don't know if this has been mentioned. There are two year clauses built into most life insurance policies. If you mention you are a non-tobacco user, yet you smoke and die regardless of cause within those two years, your life insurance provider can void the contract if they can prove that you had misinformed the company while applying.

That two year period is also built in with suicide clauses. Beyond those two years, you are good to go.

As far as cigar smoking, based on what I've seen...Prudential and MetLife have best consideration for the casual cigar smokers...as in non-tobacco rates.