Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars

[Emjaysmash]

I copied-and-pasted from another forum.

Altadis USA has officially filed a lawsuit over the use of the Fleur De Lys on Tatuaje Cigars. They have filed suit in the Florida Southern District Court. The lawsuit names Tatuaje Cigars, Pete Johnson, My Father Cigars and Jose Pepin Garcia as the defendants. The docket can be found here: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-flsdce/case_no-1:2009cv23308/case_id-345807/.

[Darrell]

Altadis is so ****ing lame.

[Sauer Grapes]

What Altadis cigar uses the Fleur de lys? I'm assuming there is one.

[Darrell]

What Altadis cigar uses the Fleur de lys? I'm assuming there is one.

Montecristo.

[Emjaysmash]

I think im boycotting buying any Altadis Cigars...not that I've bought any before but this gives me another reason not to

[elderboy02]

I hate Altadis. I hope their company fails.

[Eleven]

This is why we need tort reform and loser-pays in the US.

[Slavac]

This is why we need tort reform and loser-pays in the US.

Typically the loser does pay court costs.

[Bax]

The Tat's needed a new band anyway.

[Sauer Grapes]

Montecristo.

Ah... forgot about that one. I can definitely see where Altadis is coming from here. Pete has himself one of the fastest growing companies in the industry and Altadis isn't very well thought of in the industry. The Fleurs do look different though.

I definitely think the lawsuit is dumb here, but who can really blame them. Most of us who smoke Tatuaje don't smoke Altadis products much if at all. Can you really claim trade mark infringement on something as old and iconic as the Fleur De Lys? I guess if Fuente can claim they own the letter X, then what is the difference?

[Brooks W]

Guys, this is old news...Pete told a few of us at one of his stops that this has been resolved...Basically, he gets to keep using the symbol on Tat cigars, but cannot use it for any of his other brands (La Riqueza, El Triunfador etc)...

I am not sure why the date of the filing is yesterday, if what he said is true...Just repeating what he told us...

Hope that helps!

~brooks

[wayner123]

I was looking mroe into this and ran across a lawsuit filed by Tatuaje against Altadis in August of this year. https://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=49868

So is this some kind of feud between them?

[Don Fernando]

I guess if Fuente can claim they own the letter X, then what is the difference?

Didn't they have a years long dispute with Opus One wines in the past?

[Emjaysmash]

Guys, this is old news...Pete told a few of us at one of his stops that this has been resolved...Basically, he gets to keep using the symbol on Tat cigars, but cannot use it for any of his other brands (La Riqueza, El Triunfador etc)...

Hope that helps!

~brooks

When did he tell you guys? I'm jut wondering as it looks like this was filed 2 days ago...

[Brooks W]

When did he tell you guys? I'm jut wondering as it looks like this was filed 2 days ago...

He told us this on Thursday...so I suppose it is possible he THOUGHT everything was fine...

**Shrug** like I said, I am just repeating what he told us, nothing more...

~brooks

[markem]

Apparently there was/is a countersuit

http://cigarlaw.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/tatuaje-v-altadis/

[Blueface]

Typically the loser does pay court costs.

Look up what "court costs" means.

All of Tatuaje's legal fees for their defense of this suit is out of pocket and is not covered under "court costs".

Only time you generally see legal fees covered is if an agreement to settle is reached that incorporates legal fees as part of it or in cases of contracts where the contract stipulates the person filing suit to enforce it is entitled to fees. In those cases, many states say that then applies to both parties so either that prevails will get legal fees.

Not an attorney but did stay at a Holiday Inn.

[icehog3]

I have been boycotting Altadis products for years.

Not because of the feud or the suit, though...just 'cause they suck.

[Blueface]

Not because of the feud or the suit, though...just 'cause they suck.

True.
I think they will be suing the New Orleans Saints next.
They clearly copied from Altadis.

[icehog3]

True.
I think they will be suing the New Orleans Saints next.
They clearly copied from Altadis.

Hopefully they don't sue the guards at the Wicked Witch of the West's castle! :r

[tobii3]

copyright infringement is copyright infringement.

Montecristo (CC) - 1935

Montecristo (NC) - 1995

Tatuaje - 2003

Pardon me while I LMAO.

[markem]

Look up what "court costs" means.

Carlos is correct. The parties may ask the court to have the loser pay both court costs and the winners costs, which is what I think that Slavic was alluding to, although such payments are not automatic and must be asked for specifically in a judgment.

From Black's Law Dictionary, Abridged Seventh Edition.

cost, n, 2. (pl) The charges or fees taxed by the court, such as filing fees, jury fees, courthouse fees, and reporter fees. -- also termed court costs.

cost, n, 3. (pl.) The expenses of litigation, prosecution, or other legal transaction, esp. those allowed in favor of one party against the other -- Also termed [...] litigation costs.

court costs. See COST (2).

So we can see that the term "cost" can potentially cover both uses, but court costs is specific.

No links, this is from my printed copy.

[dogface_313]

I am in trouble, I have a felur de lys as part of my tattoo. putting something over it will be less expensive then court fees i guess. oh well.

[markem]

copyright infringement is copyright infringement.

Correct. There are many matters that get considered, often, in such cases esp. whether or not the copyright should ever have been awarded and what, specifically, constitutes the item that has been granted protection. I do my work in the patent area and am very successful at getting patents reviewed and withdrawn by both US Federal Court and the USPTO. I assume that there are other experts who do similar for copyright.

btw, IANAL.

[Eleven]

If they sue them, then the Boy Scouts are next.


True.
I think they will be suing the New Orleans Saints next.
They clearly copied from Altadis.

[captain53]

I hate Altadis. I hope their company fails.

:tpd:

[BlackIrish]

Couple of things:

The suit is for trademark infringement, not copyright infringement.

Under the federal trademark act, a prevailing party can, but does not automatically, recover both attorney's fees and costs.

Tatuaje sued first in federal court in LA, on August 21, 2009, seeking a ruling that it doesn't infringe any Altadis trademarks. Altadis' suit was filed in federal court in Miami on Friday. Because Tatuaje's suit was filed first, it is likely that it will proceed and Altadis' later-filed suit will be dismissed or transferred to be consolidated with Tatuaje's suit in LA.

[ucla695]

Unreal. Altadis might benefit from it if someone confuses a Montecristo for a Tatuaje. :ss

[tobii3]

Considering that the history of Altadis goes as far back as 1918...Tatuaje goes back all of 6 years....

In September 2000, the parent company purchased 50% of Habanos S.A., owner of most of the Cuban trademarks in the world and franchiser of the Casa del Habano shops. The final merger, resulting in today's company, was completed in early 2008 when Altadis S.A. merged with Imperial Tobacco, headquartered in the UK.

For those of you who wish Altadis to fail, maybe you want to re-think your words??

[icehog3]

Considering that the history of Altadis goes as far back as 1918...Tatuaje goes back all of 6 years....



For those of you who wish Altadis to fail, maybe you want to re-think your words??

It is still going to be a legal fiasco when (if) the Embargo ends IMHO.

[kelmac07]

It is still going to be a legal fiasco when (if) the Embargo ends IMHO.

Agree with ya there Tom!!

[Ratters]

Well, still want them to fail. And if the commies don't believe in ownership of property, why should they believe in owner of trademarks. ;)

[sikk50]

I would understand the lawsuits and everything if Altadis had the FdL trademarked a long tile ago, but they just did it this year AFTER they saw the sucess tat was having and that was the embl they used. Definatly sleezy to say the least

[Blueface]

Hey,
Anyone using a Montecristo photo for an Avatar, look out!!! You too may get sued by Altadis.:r

[ZenSilk]

if they made tasty cigars maybe I'd give a S**t!

[macpappy]

True.
I think they will be suing the New Orleans Saints next.
They clearly copied from Altadis.

Nah! In New Orleans they spell it "Fleur de lis" so it must be something different.:r:r

[neoflex]

I find it kind of amusing as the Fluer is one of the most generic symbols used for a lot of different companies and wouldn't think that a symbol like that couldn't be trademarked. Hell, the Saints use it, BoyScouts, Big Tattoo Wines(http://www.bigtattoored.com/) etc etc. Altadis will need to start thier own legal dept if they really want to say they trademarked it. I'm going to go and trademark the question mark tomorrow and anyone who uses it whether it's for their company or in the paper or magazines I am sueing the crap out of them. Whenever I wear my Tatuaje t-shirt people always ask if I am a Saints fan. Never once did someone say, "Hey I like Montecisto too.":td
Sounds to me like Altadis does not like that Pete/Pepin has taken a big chunk of their market share. Maybe they should concentrate more on making a better cigar that will appeal to the masses rather than nit picking generic symbols. Just my .02

[Wharf Rat]

I find it kind of amusing as the Fluer is one of the most generic symbols used for a lot of different companies and wouldn't think that a symbol like that couldn't be trademarked. Hell, the Saints use it, BoyScouts, Big Tattoo Wines(http://www.bigtattoored.com/) etc etc. Altadis will need to start thier own legal dept if they really want to say they trademarked it. I'm going to go and trademark the question mark tomorrow and anyone who uses it whether it's for their company or in the paper or magazines I am sueing the crap out of them. Whenever I wear my Tatuaje t-shirt people always ask if I am a Saints fan. Never once did someone say, "Hey I like Montecisto too.":td
Sounds to me like Altadis does not like that Pete/Pepin has taken a big chunk of their market share. Maybe they should concentrate more on making a better cigar that will appeal to the masses rather than nit picking generic symbols. Just my .02

Trademarks are with respect to specific products. So one company could have cigars, another a football team. Now, if the Saints tried to market a cigar, it could get interesting.

[neoflex]

Anyone have any Montecristos and is there a ©, TM or ® next to the symbol?

[leafandale]

Sounds to me like Altadis does not like that Pete/Pepin has taken a big chunk of their market share.

In 2006 Altadis sold 3.2 billion cigars worldwide. Pete Johnson sells around 1.2 million a year. We could all quadruple our Tatuaje consumption and that still wouldn't be "taking a big chunk" out of Altadis' business. If anything is hurting Altadis' business, it's governments and taxes... not Pete Johnson.

[Silound]

Given my limited knowledge of laws governing this, I can't be sure but...

Pete almost certainly filed suit first because by doing so he forced Altadis to tip their hand early (he probably had some forewarning about the impending suit). Also by doing this, as was stated above, the Altadis suit will NOT proceed until a judge either combines the suits or until Pete's suit is totally settled (initial plus any appeals). Once either of those happens, then the next step proceeds.

I don't think that Altadis will come out a "winner" in this one. The Tatuaje brand doesn't come close to even comparing itself to the Montecristo line anywhere. They don't claim to be like it, near it, or even know it exists. The use of the Fleur-de-lis dates back well before the 12th century, making it unlikely that anyone can claim is as something protected by their trademark. Other than the use of the known FDL shape, they don't really have anything in common.

[tchariya]

They better start sueing fraternities around the USA. Many use the fleur in their badges and crests.

My fraternity didn't trademark a normal fleur, instead we copyrighted a use of the fleur with our other symbols. We have issued a cease and desist to companies that try to freely use our 'emblem' on cups, shirts, shot glasses mugs, thongs, cigar holders...etc etc...


Also, there is a steakhouse Indianapolis uses the fleur too.

[tchariya]

Another legal thought to trademarks, when one is given legal approval for a trademark, that entity who owns the trademark has the duty to protect it by going after anyone who tries to use it.

If they don't practice their legal powers to protect their trademark, it can be brought up in court by other parties citing that so and so company isn't doing their due diligence to protect what was granted to them.

This is why Apple Corp sues every mom and pop apple orchard and apple sounding company out there...McIntosh apples...etc etc. Whether or not Apple will win their case in trademark court, it won't matter, they are protecting the dilution of their trademark.

That's Than's terms...and I welcome anyone to correct my view of this.

[icehog3]

Maybe they should sue Savoy too.... :rolleyes:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24016

[Darrell]

Did Altadis file papers to sue the Boy Scouts of America, yet?

[elderboy02]

I have a pair of boxers that I bought from Old Navy that have the fleur de lis symbol on it. I hope they don't sue me :rolleyes:

[bleedingshrimp]

Why does a symbol not become public domain similar to a piece of music? The symbol is so old that trademark infringement seems pretty lame to me. It's like an arrow being trademarked or a cross. As long as the symbol in question isn't a direct copy of the Montecristo version...what's the big deal?

[Footbag]

There are lots of variations of the FdL. I'm in the furniture business and see them on upholstery fabrics all of the time. I've also seen a number of other furniture/design firms that us it in their logo.
I cannot see this suit going very far. Seems more like desperation.

[Addiction]

I have been boycotting Altadis products for years.

Not because of the feud or the suit, though...just 'cause they suck.

Ditto except in my case substitute "months" for "years" and you got something there.

[Beagleone]

They better start sueing fraternities around the USA. Many use the fleur in their badges and crests.

My fraternity didn't trademark a normal fleur, instead we copyrighted a use of the fleur with our other symbols. We have issued a cease and desist to companies that try to freely use our 'emblem' on cups, shirts, shot glasses mugs, thongs, cigar holders...etc etc...

Actually, there is a company that has signed up a majority of the fraternities and sororities in the US to be their official distributor for clothing, promotional items and other swag. They have aggressively gone after the many independents that cater to the local campus Greek organizations when they to tee shirts and other clothing items for copyright infringement and forcing huge settlements.

Back to the point: this has been developing for sometime now. Altadis first started this because Pete and Don Pepin made a pyramid shaped cigar that just happened to have a FdL on the band and looked a lot like a Monte #2.

[Blueface]

Holy Cow!!!

Did anyone realize how many old style iron fences need to come down or those owner too will be sued, along with the now dead iron workers that made them.

[elderboy02]

Does anyone have a complete list of cigars made by Altadis? I want to make sure I don't buy their crap.

Thanks.

[VirtualSmitty]

Does anyone have a complete list of cigars made by Altadis? I want to make sure I don't buy their crap.

Thanks.

http://www.altadisusa.com/cigar/handmade.asp

[elderboy02]

http://www.altadisusa.com/cigar/handmade.asp

Thanks. I don't smoke any of those anyway.

[VirtualSmitty]

Thanks. I don't smoke any of those anyway.

You have no idea what your missing if your not smoking Big Butt :r

[elderboy02]

You have no idea what your missing if your not smoking Big Butt :r

No comment :r

[Blueface]

Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos.
So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes. :r

[VirtualSmitty]

Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos.
So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes. :r

Indeed. They also own most of JR Cigars at this point, so every time you order from them back to Altadis it goes.

[kydsid]

Considering that the history of Altadis goes as far back as 1918...Tatuaje goes back all of 6 years....



For those of you who wish Altadis to fail, maybe you want to re-think your words??

Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos.
So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes. :r


I'm pretty sure Altadis USA and Altadis SA are completely sepperate companies. That's not to say that don't back channel money back and forth illegally if they are controlled by the same people, but I'm pretty sure the IRS would want to know, and not even sure they are controlled by the same people.

[mosesbotbol]

It is still going to be a legal fiasco when (if) the Embargo ends IMHO.

Habanos could launch new US only brands until everything is straightened out.

[mosesbotbol]

I'm pretty sure Altadis USA and Altadis SA are completely sepperate companies. That's not to say that don't back channel money back and forth illegally if they are controlled by the same people, but I'm pretty sure the IRS would want to know, and not even sure they are controlled by the same people.

I am sure they are two seperate companies and they would work as independent companies, seperate books, different corporate registrations...

[NCRadioMan]

I'm pretty sure Altadis USA and Altadis SA are completely sepperate companies. That's not to say that don't back channel money back and forth illegally if they are controlled by the same people, but I'm pretty sure the IRS would want to know, and not even sure they are controlled by the same people.

They are the same company but different divisions.

http://www.answers.com/topic/altadis-u-s-a-inc

Created from the 2000 consolidation of HavaTampa Inc. and Consolidated Cigar Holdings, Altadis USA is a leading cigar maker nationwide that generates more than half of its parent Altadis, S.A.'s worldwide cigar sales.

In December 1999, Consolidated Cigar Corporation / SEITA entered into an agreement with Spanish tobacco giant Tabacalera S.A. This new tobacco company was named ALTADIS, S.A. ALTADIS stands for Alliance Tobacco Distribution. As a result of this merger, Hav-A-Tampa was brought into the fold and new facilities were added. The new enterprise became the world's largest cigar company with over 7,000 employees worldwide. In September 2000, the parent company purchased 50% of Habanos S.A., owner of most of the Cuban trademarks in the world and franchiser of the Casa del Habano shops. The final merger, resulting in today's company, was completed in early 2008 when Altadis S.A. merged with Imperial Tobacco, headquartered in the UK.

http://www.altadisusa.com/company.asp

An Altadis Rep told me several months back that when Pete heard about them suing him, he rasied a glass at a dinner and announced that Altadis is suing him so now he knows that he had arrived. :r

[kydsid]

^ I wonder how all that works into the recent purchase of Altadis SA. Even so given the US laws and embargoes it would be illegal for money to move back and forth from Altadis SA to Altadis USA.

[NCRadioMan]

^ I wonder how all that works into the recent purchase of Altadis SA. Even so given the US laws and embargoes it would be illegal for money to move back and forth from Altadis SA to Altadis USA.

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows these days. The Altadis Rep also told me they had been sending equipment down to Cuba for a few years now to prepare for the opening of the country when the time comes.

[macpappy]

I haven't look at anything made by Altadis in a while that had a fleur de lis on it so I have to ask this question. Is the fleur de lis in question formed from tobacco leaves? If so then that my be why the lawsuit has been filed.

[tobii3]

..when Pete heard about them suing him, he rasied a glass at a dinner and announced that Altadis is suing him so now he knows that he had arrived. :r

So when I make a Kit car with the Ferrari Stallion on it and get sued by Ferrari, I can claim ""I have arrived"??

Do ANY of you posting the smartass comments have an inkling of the number of companies sued or shut down by Fuente due to the "Opus" or the "X"??

Maybe even the history of the Original Release Famous Nicaraguan 3000???

[NCRadioMan]

So when I make a Kit car with the Ferrari Stallion on it and get sued by Ferrari, I can claim ""I have arrived"??



If you make it better and mass produce it for sale, sure. :tu

[icehog3]

If you make it better and mass produce it for sale, sure. :tu

Exactly what I am guessing Pete's point was....he got noticed by Altadis.

Hope this isn't considered to be a "smartass comment". :rolleyes:

[coastietech]

So when I make a Kit car with the Ferrari Stallion on it and get sued by Ferrari, I can claim ""I have arrived"??



Your really comparing the two?

Pete never made an imitation Montecristo.... His cigar label looks nothing like a Montecristo label. So what Pete did and what you are suggesting aren't comparable. If Pete did what you were talking about there would be a substantial lawsuit. He would have been purposely trying to confuse the consumer into thinking his product was something else.

I've noticed your dislike for all things Pete Johnson spill over in more than one thread. So much so that you defend things that are ridiculous just so you can not show any support for him. :rolleyes:

[pmwz]

i think a lot of guys here are looking at it just out of pete's perspective.
We care more about cigars than the casual cigar smoker and can tell the difference between the two brands. a casual cigar smoker might remember that a Fleur De Lys was on the band and asks at his b+m for a cigar with one on his band.

[coastietech]

i think a lot of guys here are looking at it just out of pete's perspective.
We care more about cigars than the casual cigar smoker and can tell the difference between the two brands. a casual cigar smoker might remember that a Fleur De Lys was on the band and asks at his b+m for a cigar with one on his band.

In that case according to this article (http://cigarlaw.wordpress.com/2009/08/11/05-05-03-design-code-for-fleur-de-lis/) "...at least 35 trademarks on record with the PTO that have this design as part of there trademark as used in connection with cigars."

[BC-Axeman]

I'm not impressed by Tats, nor any of the Altadis. There are good and bad on both sides of this. To me this is like watching the Dodgers play the Yankees.

[s15driftking]

tatuaje sucks, altadis sucks, the browns suck.... this thread sucks

[tobii3]

Millions of ideas and emblems to use out there.....and he comes up with a Fleur de Lis, an image that has been part of the Montecristo emblem for over 70 years.

That's not a coincidence.

tatuaje sucks, altadis sucks, the browns suck.... this thread sucks

Now I gotta clean Guinness off my keyboard!!!!

:D

[tobii3]

I've noticed your dislike for all things Pete Johnson spill over in more than one thread. So much so that you defend things that are ridiculous just so you can not show any support for him. :rolleyes:

Umm....Coastie???

Search: Keyword(s): drac - Showing results 1 to 25 of 61

61 different threads mention the Drac. SIXTY ONE THREADS.

Search: Keyword(s): tatuaje ; Posts Made By: tobii3

Results 1 to 8 of 8 (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/search.php?searchid=1989339)

Search: Keyword(s): drac ; Posts Made By: tobii3

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Wow. 4 of those posts are on THIS thread. Never knew a comment I made about the P series not being economy priced was a dislike of Pete Johnson. Come to think of it, the posts on the Tat Drac: Shipping Date thread were defending a retailer accused of gouging.

I was going to put this in PM, but the more I think about it, the more it should be kept out in public.

[icehog3]

If this goes off in a personal direction any further, it will be CLOSED.

[s15driftking]

Millions of ideas and emblems to use out there.....and he comes up with a Fleur de Lis, an image that has been part of the Montecristo emblem for over 70 years.

That's not a coincidence.



Now I gotta clean Guinness off my keyboard!!!!

:D


:r:r:r

IS that a record??? lol!!

[sodomanaz]

tatuaje sucks, altadis sucks, the browns suck.... this thread sucks

:banger Exactly!

People getting rather uppity over a lawsuit that doesn't concern them. Both sides are suing each other and you guys are taking up arms as if this was a war. It isn't a huge deal, and it really shouldn't concern any of you to the point where you feel you should be defending a company.

It will go to court where it will be decided, so quit the bellyaching and go smoke a cigar.

[kenstogie]

I just looked up what cigars Altadis makes, It's no wonder I didn't know or care.

[poriggity]

Considering that the history of Altadis goes as far back as 1918...Tatuaje goes back all of 6 years....



For those of you who wish Altadis to fail, maybe you want to re-think your words??

Nope, I still want them to fail. Then again, I've only smoked about 3 CC's my entire smoking career..
Scott

[Smokin Gator]

LOL... I too didn't really what they made. I went and looked and they have several CC names. I know the arguments for them being able to use them... I just think it is funny they would bust someone else's chops about using something so widespread.

[Lobo]

Jeeeezzzz, why cant they all just get along?..... why cant people play nice?... another soap opera begins in the courts, over a symbol that belongs to the French anyhow... lol

[s15driftking]

another soap opera begins in the courts, over a symbol that belongs to the French anyhow... lol

SUE FRANCE!!!!!

for having such a aesthetically pleasing design!!!

[Skywalker]

SUE FRANCE!!!!!

for having such a aesthetically pleasing design!!!

:r

[hoax]

I have to agree with Altadis on this one. They have to protect their trademark or they lose it.

[Darrell]

tatuaje sucks, altadis sucks, the browns suck.... this thread sucks

and Gurkhas are AWESOME cigars, right Bob? :td

[s15driftking]

and gurkhas are awesome cigars, right bob? :td

damn right!

[Emjaysmash]

damn right!

Well, atleast I know who I can bomb my Gurkhas to...

[Rabidsquirrel]

Well, atleast I know who I can bomb my Gurkhas to...

Aren't dirty bombs a violation of the Geneva Convention? :D

[s15driftking]

Well, atleast I know who I can bomb my Gurkhas to...

:ss

you looking for any trades? pm me with a gurkha-inventory!

[Darrell]

:ss

you looking for any trades? pm me with a gurkha-inventory!

Gurkhas suck.

[sikk50]

I have to agree with Altadis on this one. They have to protect their trademark or they lose it.

Even though they just trademarked it this year the day before the show he was showing off his new products at, then told him at his booth at the show the very next day to stop using the symbol? :tg

I'm normaly all for protecting trademarks and I'm by now means a Tat fan boy (Perdomo fan boy maybe though), but this whole thing has reaked from the beginning.

[covetry]

Altadis will never win a suit against Tatuaje or anyone else for trademark infringement simply because you can't claim trademark infringement if the mark in question is a historical or cultural symbol, which the Fleur De Lys clearly is. In cases like this the court will only rule in favor if the symbol can be proven to have been CREATED by Altadis, which is clearly was not. Unless they were around 1000 years ago.

More than likely they are doing this because they are bigger, probably retain a nice law firm, and wanted to make life a little difficult for their biggest competition.

[Thrak]

I wonder if they're going to sue the N.O. Saints too lol!

[tobii3]

anyone else research the lawsuit??

The Main Reason isn't about Tatuaje.

It's about Tabacalera de Garcia.

Which one you might ask??

That's why there is a lawsuit.

[Aldebaran]

Altadis will never win a suit against Tatuaje or anyone else for trademark infringement simply because you can't claim trademark infringement if the mark in question is a historical or cultural symbol, which the Fleur De Lys clearly is. I

NFL holds the Fleur de Lys as a trademark in respect to football and NFL related merchandising. So that argument is clearly false. But if you want to look up where in the USC or in international intellectual property laws say that is the case then please prove me wrong.

Trademarks are an important part of society and in business. The maintain image and prevent or limit unfair business and imitators.

[D_A]

Looks like they agreed on a settlement

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Features/CA_Feature_Basic_Template/0,2344,2977,00.html

[Resipsa]

btw, IANAL.

you're anal???......













:r:r:r sorry, but it was such a softball.....

[markem]

No surprise there. In general, the people who feel the most vindicated or got the upper hand are the ones who make the announcements.

[Whipper Snapper]

http://www.jonco48.com/blog/Itch_20Jeuk.jpg
my butt itches...

[Darrell]

http://www.jonco48.com/blog/Itch_20Jeuk.jpg
my butt itches...

Nobody cares, your name isn't in red. :r

:D

[captain53]

http://www.jonco48.com/blog/Itch_20Jeuk.jpg
my butt itches...

:tpd:

[Whipper Snapper]

Nobody cares, your name isn't in red. :r

:D

Yeah...
I guess I did steal that one.

[Darrell]

Yeah...
I guess I did steal that one.

:ss