View Full Version : 6-Year old suspended - camping utensil?
TripleF
10-13-2009, 07:23 AM
Did you all see this?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/zachary-christie-suspended-bringing-camping-utensil-school/story?id=8812939
Talk about roasting my coffee beans :mad: :mad:
Blueface
10-13-2009, 07:41 AM
You beat me to it.
What is this world coming to?
This kid is a boy scout. He is a good kid. He wears a freaking tie to go to school. Who the heck does that today?
He is suspended and will have to go to reform school for 45 days.
All due to a zero tolerance rule.
What did he take? A camping tool with a spoon, fork and cake like knife. He wanted to eat lunch with it.
Is it right? Should he be allowed to have it? Of course not. Should there be some form of punishment? Of course. However, where the hell has common sense gone? This is nuts. Ruin a good kid in reform school? Suspended from school for 5 days and then 45 days of reform school additionally?
This is not a Columbine type situation. This is outrageous!
DoctorBJ
10-13-2009, 07:44 AM
YEah that's eff'd up. I heard recently about a teenage girl who got the "ban on drugs" rules applied to her for taking her birth control pill at school.
It's sad that there has to be a need for such strict rules.
That being said, I don't think a parent shoudl be giving a kid a swiss army knife at 6 to take to school. I think I got my first knife at 9, a rather large lock blade buck knife, that I still have. I knew enough to not to take it to school though.
TripleF
10-13-2009, 07:50 AM
YEah that's eff'd up. I heard recently about a teenage girl who got the "ban on drugs" rules applied to her for taking her birth control pill at school.
It's sad that there has to be a need for such strict rules.
That being said, I don't think a parent shoudl be giving a kid a swiss army knife at 6 to take to school. I think I got my first knife at 9, a rather large lock blade buck knife, that I still have. I knew enough to not to take it to school though.
Just a thought,,,,, most 6 year olds when I was a 6 year old carried knives. No problems.
BlackDog
10-13-2009, 07:58 AM
Even though I think the way this is being handled is assinine, the utensil does have a pretty good sized blade. Here is a picture of the actual utensil.
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/10/13/image5381347l.jpg
Blueface
10-13-2009, 07:59 AM
That being said, I don't think a parent shoudl be giving a kid a swiss army knife at 6 to take to school.
He is a Boy Scout and that is how he got it.
Mother didn't know he took it to school.
icantbejon
10-13-2009, 08:00 AM
I think it's absolutely absurd that they're talking about reform school. I can see slapping the kid on the wrist for making a stupid mistake...but at that age it should come in the form of banning him from recess for a week. He's 6 for crying out loud! He's in first grade? Things have gone too far...and like most people have said, it's a damn shame.
Blueface
10-13-2009, 08:00 AM
Even though I think the way this is being handled is assinine, the utensil does have a pretty good sized blade. Here is a picture of the actual utensil.
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/10/13/image5381347l.jpg
Agree.
This should not be allowed anywhere near a school.
Agree there should be some form of punishment.
However, 50 days away from school, with 45 in reform school, for a 6 yr old kid who is a good student and role model of a kid? Nope. Nuts!
TheTraveler
10-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Agree.
This should not be allowed anywhere near a school.
Agree there should be some form of punishment.
However, 50 days away from school, with 45 in reform school, for a 6 yr old kid who is a good student and role model of a kid? Nope. Nuts!
:tpd: I agree 100%. What a great way to go WAY THE F*#K overboard in their response! :td
DoctorBJ
10-13-2009, 09:01 AM
Just a thought,,,,, most 6 year olds when I was a 6 year old carried knives. No problems.
Where did you grow up? Compton?:D:D
DoctorBJ
10-13-2009, 09:06 AM
for the record, I'm not in favor of a delinquent or reform program... suspend the kid for a few days and call it a day. The suspension will make sure the parents pay attention to what their kids are taking to school.
I was a boy scout and carried knives often. But, I knew when it was appropriate and when it wasn't . I'm sure the school had plastic utinsels the kid could use.
ade06
10-13-2009, 10:18 AM
I was a cub/boy scout back in the day and had several knives, but, my parents and I knew better than to bring knives to school (regardless of whether they doubled as "camping utensils"). I think that the 45 day suspension is crazy long, but, I don't have a problem with rules being carried out equally across the board to all violators (regardless of whether they were a "good" student or a bad one). I think that the standard suspension term needs to be re-evaluated. For example, maybe the 1st violation = 5 day suspension, 2nd violation = 45 days, and 3rd = explusion.
Lastly, since the straight "A" kid wore suits and ties to school, maybe the knife was for protection??? :D
He is 6 years old and was inteding to use the tool as an eating utensil as it was intended. While I am not condoning this I will say that from what I read it does not appear that there was any intent to use it to do anything other than eat with it. Explan to him that he can't bring that to school to eat with and call it a day. And for those screaming about the zero tolerence just keep in mind that it is entirely possibly to kill or mame somone with a plastic fork, knife or spoon and the use of a metal blade isn't needed. The world we live in is a dangerous place but it is anything but black and white.
Poronico
10-13-2009, 10:27 AM
these situations are getting out of hand, I was let go from a pharmacy job at target because I carry a leatherman for when i need to fix something on the go... I was packing a knife in the pharmacy is what I was told and fired on the spot.
these situations are getting out of hand, I was let go from a pharmacy job at target because I carry a leatherman for when i need to fix something on the go... I was packing a knife in the pharmacy is what I was told and fired on the spot.
So you were fired for being in posession of something that you can actualy purchase in the store where you were working? Priceless.
Scottastic
10-13-2009, 10:45 AM
I went to private schools until high school, and overreaction was the norm. It's sad to see this in public schools.
I almost got expelled in 7th grade. A kid who was a little off his rocker in hind sight decided he was mad at me and started punching me in the head in class. I called for the teacher three times (I was never really a fighter) before this kid picked up a chair. At this point it was survival instinct and I fought back. NOW of course the teacher sees it and sends us both to the office. Since the teacher didn't see this guy swing at me, I got a one week suspension and an expulsion hearing. This kid got nothing.
It was only 3 days into my suspension when the kid brought a 9mm to class when they apologised and let me back in.
Starscream
10-13-2009, 10:48 AM
So you were fired for being in posession of something that you can actualy purchase in the store where you were working? Priceless.
:tpd:
ade06
10-13-2009, 10:50 AM
So you were fired for being in posession of something that you can actualy purchase in the store where you were working? Priceless.
They sell shotguns and shells at WallyWorld, but I'm sure they wouldn't like their employees walking around the store with loaded shotguns. :r
I know it's not the same as a knife, but, I'm just saying... :D
ade06
10-13-2009, 10:53 AM
these situations are getting out of hand, I was let go from a pharmacy job at target because I carry a leatherman for when i need to fix something on the go... I was packing a knife in the pharmacy is what I was told and fired on the spot.
Should have told them you were going to use the knife to cut the pills in the event of an emergancy :D Just kidding, that sucks!
They sell shotguns and shells at WallyWorld, but I'm sure they wouldn't like their employees walking around the store with loaded shotguns. :r
I know it's not the same as a knife, but, I'm just saying... :D
It would be ok if he was just using the shotgun as a box opener.
TripleF
10-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Where did you grow up? Compton?:D:D
It's not "where" it's when, when we didn't have to worry about namby pamby wuss asses calling us in if we had a pocket knife. Oh BTW, I always carry 3 pocket knives today :D
I dare ya to ask, at the EPIC HERF 2 if.........."Anybody got a knife?" :D
DoctorBJ
10-13-2009, 12:45 PM
You're on.
And yes, times are a-changing with schools. Kids will shank ya for beating their arse in kickball. no wonder that 1st grader was packing. :)
troy d.
10-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Did you all see this?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/zachary-christie-suspended-bringing-camping-utensil-school/story?id=8812939
Talk about roasting my coffee beans :mad: :mad:
hello triplef. i want to comment on this issue. i heard about this story while listening to talk radio this morning at work. this is complete and udder insanity, this kid was using the fork part of the knife while eating lunch. this is the udder stupidity that is going on our schools. that whole admin staff should be fired.:td:mad::fl
Blueface
10-13-2009, 02:39 PM
Well,
Sounds like they realize they are nuts or they have succumbed to public outrage.
They say after tonight's meeting they will change their policy for Kindergarten and first grade. They are going to give him 3-to 5 day suspension.
Blueface
10-13-2009, 02:40 PM
hello triplef. i want to comment on this issue. i heard about this story while listening to talk radio this morning at work. this is complete and udder insanity, this kid was using the fork part of the knife while eating lunch. this is the udder stupidity that is going on our schools. that whole admin staff should be fired.:td:mad::fl
In all fairness, they are following the rules.
The problem does not lie with them so much as it lies with who made the rules.
Per my prior post, looks like the kid is going to be spared reform school.
ade06
10-13-2009, 02:44 PM
They are going to give him 3-to 5 day suspension.
This sounds a lot more reasonable than the crazyness they first handed down.
TheTraveler
10-13-2009, 02:59 PM
This sounds a lot more reasonable than the crazyness they first handed down.
:tpd: Definitely more reasonable now. I'm glad that's working out a little better. But .....
... back in MY day! :r Seriously, wtf man. What's with people these days? It used to be the loonies were the only ones you had to worry about and they were few and far between. Even twenty years ago a pocket knife didn't get a second look ... hell a folding Buck knife on my hip was fine in high school.
troy d.
10-13-2009, 03:04 PM
guys i will apologize for my anger. but this is udder stupidity. this is a six year old kid, where is the discretion on the part of the teachers and admin staff. it is like we in america have become a bunch of wimps. the child received the knife from cub scouts. back in the 80's when i was in high school it was nothing to carry a pocket knife to school. it was normal protocol if you were male. even in elementary school most of us carried around a pocket knife.:ss ;s
AD720
10-13-2009, 03:07 PM
Do we really need another thread on this subject?
ade06
10-13-2009, 03:09 PM
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23001
shark
10-13-2009, 03:16 PM
It would be ok if he was just using the shotgun as a box opener.
Or if one were working in loss prevention!:r
icehog3
10-13-2009, 03:21 PM
What was the weapons policy when you were in the Navy, Troy? Also curious as to where you served and with whom?
Silound
10-13-2009, 05:12 PM
Knee jerk reactions aside, there is something to be said for making sure children know when is the proper time and place to carry a knife with them. It's something the Scouting program teaches as part of safety.
Reactions on the table, I strongly disagree with the initial punishment, but I feel the commuted 3-5 day suspension is warranted. It's enough to impress on both student and parents the gravity of the situation and help ensure it won't happen again.
Besides, I carried a dive knife strapped to my ankle almost every day, or a folder on the inside of my belt, and no one said a word, not even the dean when I lent it to him one day to cut some ribbon. :hm
In all fairness, they are following the rules.
The problem does not lie with them so much as it lies with who made the rules.
Per my prior post, looks like the kid is going to be spared reform school.
And there are way to many of those people who make the rules that need to be beat with a common sense bat.
Ron
Blueface
10-13-2009, 07:06 PM
And there are way to many of those people who make the rules that need to be beat with a common sense bat.
Ron
:r
Where are they for sale Ron? I need one and have a few folks in mind to try it out on.:r
Resipsa
10-13-2009, 08:30 PM
guys i will apologize for my anger. but this is udder stupidity. this is a six year old kid, where is the discretion on the part of the teachers and admin staff. it is like we in america have become a bunch of wimps. the child received the knife from cub scouts. back in the 80's when i was in high school it was nothing to carry a pocket knife to school. it was normal protocol if you were male. even in elementary school most of us carried around a pocket knife.:ss ;s
I'm with you I hate cow stupidity.
GoodFella
10-13-2009, 09:43 PM
It's not "where" it's when, when we didn't have to worry about namby pamby wuss asses calling us in if we had a pocket knife. Oh BTW, I always carry 3 pocket knives today :D
I dare ya to ask, at the EPIC HERF 2 if.........."Anybody got a knife?" :D
oh man i have hefed you guys before. i know how it goes. Out of ten guys you will get 15 blades.
And probley 2 hand guns:r
Blueface
10-14-2009, 07:48 AM
Well,
Looks like Zachary is on his way back to school.
The board met last night and changed their policy.
Kids are now subject to a 3 to 5 day suspension and possible counseling with parents present.
What does this show? To me, that folks can get nuts sometimes and not see the forest for the trees. They make rules intended to do well but can't see the rules are flawed. Also shows if folks are outraged and speak up, things do change.
Glad to hear this little guy is on his way back to his regular school and friends and was not exposed to reform school.
Tried to stay away from posting on this thread, but here I go.... As one who works in both middle and high schools my thoughts.
First off, who cares what you and I did in school 35 - 40 years ago. Times have changed. BAck in high school I also carried knives and shotguns. There were more guns hanging in the backs of pickups during hunting season in the school parking lot than the whole police department had in totality. No one even thought of taking one out of an unlocked truck. The way we lived just has no meaning to todays students.
Were the rules over board in this case, who knows? We have kids from the 4th grade on up killing other kids in school or on the play grounds, google the news..... Parents are so cluless as to what there kids are doing and don't care to know. 2 jobs, got to get the Escalade to pull my boat to the lake, build the mansion, etc. I can't get even one of the 2 (if the kid has 2 parents) to come and see me to save their child from failing. The fix to problem #1, know what your children are doing and who they are doing it with. You may not be wealthier or happier knowing about your kids, but you will be able to have a greater affect on their lives. Trust belongs on a dollar bill, not for teens.
As to the disipline the student got, if that's what the rules called for by the education board/Superintendant (usually people you elected if you even showed up to vote that year). Principals do not set those types of policies. They must enforce them equally and dispassionantly or risk themselves and the school division being sued by the next parent whose child got different treatment. Or from the parent of the kid who gets cut/stabbed/shot etc. Almost every school I work in has a student agenda the kids must carry. Guess what, all the school rules and usually the infraction penalties are in it, ever thought about looking though it?
Why might there be so many hudlums in the schools? Getting back to "our" days in school, bad kids were either OSS or kicked out straight up. Not so much anymore. Kids in school = $$$$$$$. Either in free lunch money or what the state/Feds provide. So, every student on the rolls for that day equates to more funds for the school. End result, more undiserables are kept in school with your "good" kids, cuz I know your little Johnny wouldn't do those things (sick of hearing how their little angels would never start a fight).
I trust none of them and never turn my back for long in the room. My ears are always listening to what they are saying, most think I am only listening if they see me looking at them, not so. The more the hear the more I might be able to head off or stop. Average for a 1100 student body school is 3 rent a cops and at least 1 uniformed/armed city policeman. I work in schools from rual, "good" city schools to the the schools most parents given a choice would never put their kids in. The richer kids are just a tad smarter and their parents with better educations can afford better lawyers to keep their kids from getting records....
Before you pass judgement too quick on the rules of most any place - military, schools, etc make sure you have a good base to start from. I highly encourage you to volunteer a few weeks to get a feel for what the students are living in school these days. Do a little tutoring, open your eyes and ears and really see what their lives are about out of the house. Might open your eyes.....
Yea, I'm a bit cynical but it's real and I have seen/experienced this and more the past 10 years. Folks may not like it but that's what is going on. On the other hand, my :2 and possibly not worth that much. Rest assured I do not teach english or typing, math is where I work :D
Blueface
10-14-2009, 09:53 AM
Before you pass judgement too quick on the rules of most any place - military, schools, etc make sure you have a good base to start from. I highly encourage you to volunteer a few weeks to get a feel for what the students are living in school these days. Do a little tutoring, open your eyes and ears and really see what their lives are about out of the house. Might open your eyes.....
Yea, I'm a bit cynical but it's real and I have seen/experienced this and more the past 10 years. Folks may not like it but that's what is going on. On the other hand, my :2 and possibly not worth that much. Rest assured I do not teach english or typing, math is where I work :D
Your view and a valid one from your perspective.
I come from a family of many, many teachers, all in the Newark, NJ school system. I know Newark very well and while I hold fond memories of growing up there, schools there are a challenge to say the least. So, I assure you I know where you are coming from.
However, that shouldn't harden an individual to the extent you take a kid who had no malice in mind as is evident now and throw him in a system with kids truly warranting reform. Was his intent known at the time? Of course not and as such, he should have been detained as he was and questioned along with the parents present.
I agree the school was simply following the rules. I don't hold them at fault. It is the rules and those that set them that I have issue with. Clearly, they too recognize they were truly nuts as they have since changed their rules totally as of last night and have reduced the punishment to a 3-5 day suspension.
Your view and a valid one from your perspective.
I come from a family of many, many teachers, all in the Newark, NJ school system. I know Newark very well and while I hold fond memories of growing up there, schools there are a challenge to say the least. So, I assure you I know where you are coming from.
However, that shouldn't harden an individual to the extent you take a kid who had no malice in mind as is evident now and throw him in a system with kids truly warranting reform. ....
And there in lies part of the problem:
1. We do not know what an individual is thinking when they made the decscion to bring xyz to school. Did he want to eat with it or did Johnny break his Transformer the day before and more dangerous thoughts are being had. We only know what they are saying once they are sitting in the hot seat. Rare is the kid who says, yea I brought moms zapper to school to get Suzi for dumping my food tray.
2. Or- even if he had no malice, listened pretty well at Scout camp on handle a knife but then gives it to Larry who wants to see it. Larry does damage to himself by accident to hisself or another individual. While intent is good and all that, bad $hit is known to happen with the best of intentions. A lot of things in my life I didn't mean to do, but still did the "time" for.
I'm not bright enough to have many answers but the one answer I do know that works most often and best is being involved. Either as the parent or the teacher. That's what you signed up to do, so do what is needed and expected of you.
Newwark can't be an easy place to try and make a difference, but I bet when they do it's huge.
Blueface
10-14-2009, 12:05 PM
And there in lies part of the problem:
1. We do not know what an individual is thinking when they made the decscion to bring xyz to school. Did he want to eat with it or did Johnny break his Transformer the day before and more dangerous thoughts are being had. We only know what they are saying once they are sitting in the hot seat. Rare is the kid who says, yea I brought moms zapper to school to get Suzi for dumping my food tray.
2. Or- even if he had no malice, listened pretty well at Scout camp on handle a knife but then gives it to Larry who wants to see it. Larry does damage to himself by accident to hisself or another individual. While intent is good and all that, bad $hit is known to happen with the best of intentions. A lot of things in my life I didn't mean to do, but still did the "time" for.
I'm not bright enough to have many answers but the one answer I do know that works most often and best is being involved. Either as the parent or the teacher. That's what you signed up to do, so do what is needed and expected of you.
Newwark can't be an easy place to try and make a difference, but I bet when they do it's huge.
All good points.
All understood.
Going back to that day, so now they have him, was caught, had tool/knife taken away, parents called, suspended. All reasonable actions.
By now, they know what they are dealing with as they have spent time with him.
Question that would still linger is does it still merit 45 days in reform school, for a first grader?
There are folks that argue prison is no place for reform for adults but let's go ahead and place a 6 yr old with no history of violence or issues at school and place him with the worse of his kind and expose him to that?
Wouldn't want it for my kid and would fight it to death.
If my child, would give him a good punishment at home to coincide with a reasonable suspension from school.
Regardless of how we dissect this, 45 days in reform school across the board, with no other thought process is wrong.
In the final analysis, they too knew it was wrong as they succumbed to the demand to change it.
As I have said throughout this thread, his behavior was unwarranted and deserved punishment but the initial punishment did not fit the crime.
I agree - rubber stamps rarely work. The admin at the schools should be given some grey area to work in. They know their kids and school better than some soccer mom or baseball dad elected to the school board who make this rules. At lest in this case some brighter heads prevailed. I really like one we had down here, elementary school kid had a "gun" that was cut out of a piece of paper.... Another bad topic..... Brighter heads here did not prevail.
Adriftpanda
10-14-2009, 01:21 PM
Now a days, it seems violence in the schools is much more common. I don't blame the school for their decision to punish the child. Taking that extra step, even if the punishment seems to be severe and uncalled for, can sometimes help.
Skywalker
10-14-2009, 01:56 PM
Or- even if he had no malice, listened pretty well at Scout camp on handle a knife but then gives it to Larry who wants to see it. Larry does damage to himself by accident to hisself or another individual. While intent is good and all that, bad $hit is known to happen with the best of intentions. A lot of things in my life I didn't mean to do, but still did the "time" for.
Good point! The knife brought by the cub scout could be lethal in another child's hands. Or what if the bully in school uses the knife on the cub scout... Bad day for everyone!!!:(
ahc4353
10-14-2009, 02:05 PM
It just amazes me that I made it through childhood without the protection of anyone else other than my parents (and my brother on occasion :D).
replicant_argent
10-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Good point! The knife brought by the cub scout could be lethal in another child's hands. Or what if the bully in school uses the knife on the cub scout... Bad day for everyone!!!:(
Seems to me that the 6 year old bully in his class could use a chair, a pencil, a paintbrush, a ruler, or something else. In your example, the best solution is for the (most likely) Pansy running the classroom to deal with that kid first. (In restrospect, quite certainly, :rolleyes:;) )
The 6 year old shouldn't have a knife at school, I don't think it is unreasonable to restrict 6 year olds at school from having knives.
teenagers? sure... why not.:lv
Skywalker
10-14-2009, 02:24 PM
Seems to me that the 6 year old bully in his class could use a chair, a pencil, a paintbrush, a ruler, or something else. In your example, the best solution is for the (most likely) Pansy running the classroom to deal with that kid first. (In restrospect, quite certainly, :rolleyes:;) )
True that!!!
Unfortunately the "pansy" has to deal with parent's who are also (at times) bullies!!! I digress!!!:)
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