Black sheep from Holts?

[MrOneEyedBoh]

I posted a thread about dark oily maduro wrapper cigars. And I was browsing thru the holts catalog and I seen a cigar called the Black Sheep. How are these? Any thought on their taste as a dark maduro?

http://www.holts.com/category.html?id=201771&trail=86665

[kelmac07]

At $ 21.95 for a bundle of 20...not sure!! There are some cheap gems out there. Might be a diamond in the rough.

[Bax]

I seem to remember a friend trying one and having his lips turn black. Might be a dye job on those.

[hotreds]

Purchased some, and they are not very good, and are, indeed, dyed in the wool. ;s

[VirtualSmitty]

I posted a link to those in your other thread as a joke. They are drippy maduros all right, drippy with dye covering sh!t tobacco.

[sikk50]

Until then I can't say that I had ever even heard of them

[adampc22]

i carnt realy coment as i have never had one but i have a feeling that '' oil spill'' is the right word but for 20 odd dollers just get them to try and its no big loss if thay suck

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Purchased some, and they are not very good, and are, indeed, dyed in the wool. ;s

Good enough guys thanks! Guess it would be too good to be true. I seen these from Taboo.. These look tasty, and hopefully legit.

http://taboocigars.com/category.sc?categoryId=64

What ya guys think on these

[pnoon]

Sooner or later you are going to have to bite the bullet and buy something. On your cigar journey, you will find smokes you like and ones you don't. No matter how many cigars you ask about, most if not all will have those that like them and those that don't
:2

[heavyd]

Buy 'em, and get a small cooler for the smokes you don't care for. When it tops out...send them to the troops. I know that sounds bad on the surface, but believe me, they appreciate all stogies. A lot of the guys smoke cigars. The trick is finding a source that can get them delivered to the folks who are in the field.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

I have a few friends that are in the sand now, thats a good idea. I seen the troops forum here and I seen a few guys send sticks to them.

And yeah I will have to pull the gun pnoon like you said...

[icehog3]

At $ 21.95 for a bundle of 20...not sure!! There are some cheap gems out there. Might be a diamond in the rough.

Or a turd in the punchbowl. ;)

[Riff Raff]

Or a turd in the punchbowl. ;)

Not a good visual Tom! :r

[icehog3]

Not a good visual Tom! :r

Not the "visual" I am worried about, Bill. ;) :r

[T.G]

Good enough guys thanks! Guess it would be too good to be true. I seen these from Taboo.. These look tasty, and hopefully legit.

http://taboocigars.com/category.sc?categoryId=64

What ya guys think on these

Those are well blended, well made cigars, abeit they are mild. Not sure what you mean by "legit" - if you mean dyed wrappers, they don't appear to be enhanced from the ones I've smoked.

For my money at Taboo, I prefer the Special Forces Original, which is a much stronger, fuller, spicier blend. I will also admit that I do like Costa Rican Maduro wrappers which is what the SF Original uses.

Both are good cigars, just depends on what you like.

[kelmac07]

Or a turd in the punchbowl. ;)

So elegantly put Tom!! :tu

[catfish2]

Or a turd in the punchbowl. ;)

http://i37.tinypic.com/110kaiq.jpg

[68TriShield]

I have a few friends that are in the sand now, thats a good idea. I seen the troops forum here and I seen a few guys send sticks to them.

And yeah I will have to pull the gun pnoon like you said...

If you were paying attention,you would have seen a damn site more than "a few guys send sticks" to them.

It is the biggest and most important ongoing operation going on here.

Thanks for noticing.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

/\ Relax haha, I never clicked on those links much because I dont have any to send myself. SO I never took interest in reading them until I was able to send some.

[pnoon]

/\ Relax haha, I never clicked on those links much because I dont have any to send myself. SO I never took interest in reading them until I was able to send some.

Brilliant. Talk smack to an admin. That should get you far.

Read more. Post less. Take some time to learn about what this place is all about. :2


haha :rolleyes:

[BlackDog]

Good enough guys thanks! Guess it would be too good to be true. I seen these from Taboo.. These look tasty, and hopefully legit.

http://taboocigars.com/category.sc?categoryId=64

What ya guys think on these
Taboo makes very good quality cigars. Not all fit my flavor preferences, but I've never had one that was poorly made. Very good value for money too. I particularly like the Dominican Maduro.

[s15driftking]

Read more. Post less. Take some time to learn about what this place is all about.


Heed this advice, it's helped me tremendously. :tu

[ade06]

Holts' "Old Henry" has a very fine maduro.

[heavyd]

I second the Old Henry...one of the best yardies you will ever smoke :tu

[kelmac07]

Holts' "Old Henry" has a very fine maduro.

:tpd: Along with the Tampa Sweetheart #500s and Sancho Panza Double Maduro Quixotes...some of the best value maduros out there. :tu

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Brilliant. Talk smack to an admin. That should get you far.

Read more. Post less. Take some time to learn about what this place is all about. :2


haha :rolleyes:

I wasnt talking smack, and why would I read on something I'm not going to partake in? crazy huh

[NCRadioMan]

why would I read on something I'm not going to partake in?
To get educated. crazy huh

[MrOneEyedBoh]

:tpd: Along with the Tampa Sweetheart #500s and Sancho Panza Double Maduro Quixotes...some of the best value maduros out there. :tu

I second the Old Henry...one of the best yardies you will ever smoke :tu

Holts' "Old Henry" has a very fine maduro.

Thanks.:tu

[MrOneEyedBoh]

To get educated. crazy huh

On sending cigars to troops? I did not have any to send, so why would I read on it. I'll read on it when I want to/can take part in it.

[T.G]

I wasnt talking smack, and why would I read on something I'm not going to partake in? crazy huh


On sending cigars to troops? I did not have any to send, so why would I read on it. I'll read on it when I want to/can take part in it.


Dude, you're digging yourself a grave here...

[NCRadioMan]

On sending cigars to troops? I did not have any to send, so why would I read on it. I'll read on it when I want to/can take part in it.

To educate yourself on what and how we do things here. The best advice I ever received is to read everything on the board because you will learn much more than you thought you ever would, simply by accident. Example: if you search for something and don't get exactly what you are searching for, read it anyway. There is a great chance you will learn something before you even think to ask.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

ITs all good. Internet tuff guys. I dont come here to start anything, its them on me. Its whatever tho.

To educate yourself on what and how we do things here. The best advice I ever received is to read everything on the board because you will learn much more than you thought you ever would, simply by accident. Example: if you search for something and don't get exactly what you are searching for, read it anyway. There is a great chance you will learn something before you even think to ask.

Thanks for the advice, I see now... I'll just read it like you said even if I dont need it. Thanks NCRadioMan :tu

[ade06]

Dude, you're digging yourself a grave here...

:tpd: Let it go playa:ss

[NCRadioMan]

ITs all good. Internet tuff guys. I dont come here to start anything, its them on me. Its whatever tho.
For the record, we are not internet tuff guys. Far from it. We are a family here and we are trying to get you to think for yourself and not have to hold your hand through every step of this hobby. Almost every question you have asked has been asked and answered many times. I think we have been very patient trying to help but there comes a time when jr. must spread his wings and fly. So fly, research (which is half the fun, imo) and have fun with this obsession of ours. :tu

[Scottw]

Dude, you're digging yourself a grave here...

:tpd:just quit while you are ahead bro. Just let this one die out.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

:tpd:just quit while you are ahead bro. Just let this one die out.

This guy has been on my case since day one haha

For the record, we are not internet tuff guys. Far from it. We are a family here and we are trying to get you to think for yourself and not have to hold your hand through every step of this hobby. Almost every question you have asked has been asked and answered many times. I think we have been very patient trying to help but there comes a time when jr. must spread his wings and fly. So fly, research (which is half the fun, imo) and have fun with this obsession of ours. :tu

Alright I'll try. :)

[catfish2]

The administrators have to monitor every post in every thread. They've seen certain questions a million times This one can finished easily. First just let it go. Secondly keep monitoring the threads and read past threads (you will eventually is see the same questions asked several times). Finally come up with a new good question that's never been asked.:D

[MrOneEyedBoh]

I know I see what radio was talking about. I'll just go and read everything even if it doesnt pertain to what I'm looking for.

[TheTraveler]

I don't think anyone is trying to be mean.

I think I know how you're feeling ... new to cigars and trying to make intelligent purchases instead of just buying one of everything. If you're like me you've got to stretch those dollars as far as you can. But I originally ran into the "kid in the candy store" problem - that looks good, no wait that looks good too, oh wait these look awesome, ooh what's that in the corner, and on like that till I almost had cold feet about buying anything. :D

Anyway, the best you can do is read as much as reasonably possible, find something on sale (or not) and take the plunge. Seriously, there are probably 500 different maduros out there and by the time you read about ALL of them and made your decision they would be discontinued! :r

As for the other knowledge to be found here, NCRadioMan is right. Searching for one thing can lead you down the breadcrumb trail of knowledge to nuggets you never even considered! That's just part of becoming knowledgeable about a hobby and THIS place is the best on the net for having a good knowledge base and knowledgeable smokers (FOGs are your friend!).

[Don Fernando]

ITs all good. Internet tuff guys. I dont come here to start anything, its them on me. Its whatever tho.



aaaaaaaah, poor baby.

[Scottw]

This guy has been on my case since day one haha

Alright I'll try. :)

Don't flatter yourself Troll. Just keep posting to your own threads.

[ade06]

Don't flatter yourself Troll.

I think that's a little harsh. The O.P. may have been a little too defensive in his earlier responses, but imo, his posts haven't risen to Troll level? I also, haven't read all of his posts on other threads, so if I'm missing a pattern… my bad. :ss

[pnoon]

I wasnt talking smack, and why would I read on something I'm not going to partake in? crazy huh
I think I made that clear.

Read more. Post less. Take some time to learn about what this place is all about. :2


It appears that you are determined to do things your own way and ignore the advice of admins and members alike.

You have an opportunity to learn. To do so, you must listen and read. Then read some more.

A troll? I think not. But you certainly are making things more difficult for yourself.

[Don Fernando]

I kinda like the irony that you are turning yourself into the black sheep of CA in a topic about black sheeps.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Ill take the bashing but come on. Im done now haha Let it be. Im not troll status yet.

[pnoon]

If you are talking about being bashed then you still don't get it. Maybe one day you will.

I don't think anyone is trying to be mean.

I think I know how you're feeling ... new to cigars and trying to make intelligent purchases instead of just buying one of everything. If you're like me you've got to stretch those dollars as far as you can. But I originally ran into the "kid in the candy store" problem - that looks good, no wait that looks good too, oh wait these look awesome, ooh what's that in the corner, and on like that till I almost had cold feet about buying anything. :D

Anyway, the best you can do is read as much as reasonably possible, find something on sale (or not) and take the plunge. Seriously, there are probably 500 different maduros out there and by the time you read about ALL of them and made your decision they would be discontinued! :r

As for the other knowledge to be found here, NCRadioMan is right. Searching for one thing can lead you down the breadcrumb trail of knowledge to nuggets you never even considered! That's just part of becoming knowledgeable about a hobby and THIS place is the best on the net for having a good knowledge base and knowledgeable smokers (FOGs are your friend!).

[kenstogie]

:tpd: Along with the Tampa Sweetheart #500s and Sancho Panza Double Maduro Quixotes...some of the best value maduros out there. :tu
I love them and have boughten a box but are the SP dbl maddies dyed?

[catfish2]

Stay away from Victor Sinclair, their dyed.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

What do they dye the cigars with? and why just to mock a dark Maduro?

[T.G]

What do they dye the cigars with? and why just to mock a dark Maduro?

The dye is made from the crushed stalks of the tobacco plants.

"mock"? Do you mean "make"?

If so, yes, these days it's primarily for looks and color enhancements or to even out the color across splotchy/unevenly colored wrappers.

I don't think any reputable manufacturer would use the old maduro-matic steam ovens followed by a dye job of the boom days for curing wrappers anymore.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

What I meant by Mock was to "Make" ( as you said ) it seem like its a darker maduro wrapper. It just seems crazy to me that they would dye the leaves. As you said, I wouldn't see it practiced much anymore.

[T.G]

What I meant by Mock was to "Make" ( as you said ) it seem like its a darker maduro wrapper. It just seems crazy to me that they would dye the leaves. As you said, I wouldn't see it practiced much anymore.

That's not quite what I said - I think you might be misunderstanding two entirely different situations that I was referring to, because I didn't spell everything out.

Let me explain in a bit more detail:

Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in this practice with their cigars. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which is a lot more common than you might think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*

Now, the maduro-matic and dying process I mentioned, this is cheating. Instead of fermenting wrappers for weeks or months, the leaves are cooked in a steam/pressure oven to darken them. What should take weeks, takes hours. They then heavily color dye the wrapper to hide the telltale sheen from the process. Think of this as going to a fancy restaurant and ordering a $25 dinner, only to have the cook open the freezer, pull out a pre-made meal, microwave it, and then transfer it from a cardboard tray to a plate and then sprinkling chopped parsley, paprika and a bit of extra cheese/gravy/sauce/whatever to try and hide the fact that it was a "TV dinner".

I can see a reputable manufacturer using dye as a bethune or as an ingredient in one, but I have a hard time believing that any reputable manufacturer would engage in maduro-matic processes.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

[T.G]

T
Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in this practice with their cigars. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which is a lot more common than you might think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*


crap - realized that some things came across completely different than what I had meant (like the part about how many manufacturers engage in a practice with natural wrappers, I didn't mean the use of natural wrappers, but rather the dying of naturally fermented wrappers...) anyway - tried to substitute the following edit, but ran out of time - please subsitute the following for the above quoted paragraph.

--begin

Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in the practice of touching up naturally fermented wrappers, but I do know the practice exists. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which, while maybe not commonplace, does occur more than one might suspect/think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*

---end

[68TriShield]

/\ Relax haha, I never clicked on those links much because I dont have any to send myself. SO I never took interest in reading them until I was able to send some.

We've gathered that you don't have any to send yourself...


haha

[MrOneEyedBoh]

We've gathered that you don't have any to send yourself...


haha

/\ I would be willing to send some when I have some to send. Like I said I have a buddy that is over there and has been for around 2 years or so. He is a marine, but does some type of special missions. He is at a SEARS (sp?) school now and has been fore the past 2 weeks.


That's not quite what I said - I think you might be misunderstanding two entirely different situations that I was referring to, because I didn't spell everything out.

Let me explain in a bit more detail:

Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in this practice with their cigars. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which is a lot more common than you might think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*

Now, the maduro-matic and dying process I mentioned, this is cheating. Instead of fermenting wrappers for weeks or months, the leaves are cooked in a steam/pressure oven to darken them. What should take weeks, takes hours. They then heavily color dye the wrapper to hide the telltale sheen from the process. Think of this as going to a fancy restaurant and ordering a $25 dinner, only to have the cook open the freezer, pull out a pre-made meal, microwave it, and then transfer it from a cardboard tray to a plate and then sprinkling chopped parsley, paprika and a bit of extra cheese/gravy/sauce/whatever to try and hide the fact that it was a "TV dinner".

I can see a reputable manufacturer using dye as a bethune or as an ingredient in one, but I have a hard time believing that any reputable manufacturer would engage in maduro-matic processes.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

Yeah I got it now.:tu

[coastietech]

Please click me if you are new to forums in general... :tu (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting)

[rudeJARHEAD]

He is a marine, but does some type of special missions. He is at a SEARS (sp?) school now and has been fore the past 2 weeks.

SERE is an acronym for Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape. Training that Marine Aircrew bubbas go to.

[Scottw]

Please click me if you are new to forums in general... :tu (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting)

Fookin' awesome.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Thanks for that SERE acronym breakdown. I heard he is now in a decomission or something like that. Its like a rest period after the SERE school.

Thats Coastietech

[catfish2]

Enhancing, dying call it what ever you want. All I know is that your lips shouldn't turn black after smoking a cigar. That's exactly what happened to me the last time I smoked a cigar from Victor Sinclair. I had black stuff on my lips where the cigar was. I didn't realize it until I looked in the mirror and saw it on my mouth. I interacted with several people at that point, they must have wondered what the heck it was.

From my understanding they do it because it's cheaper than properly aging the leaves.

[s15driftking]

i wouldn't smoke that cigar if it were laced with 100 dollar bills!

[pnoon]

i wouldn't smoke that cigar if it were laced with 100 dollar bills!

You would if someone put a Gurkha band on it. :D

[s15driftking]

You would if someone put a Gurkha band on it. :D

I promised never to lie... Pnoon is right! but it would be deception, and I would see right through it!!!!

http://word.oftheday.com.au/userimages/user756_1146537790.jpg