Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?

[icehog3]

Hoping for some civil discourse on your thoughts on Pete being in the HOF. After 20 years, he would have to be voted in by the 65 members of the Veteran's Committee if his lifetime ban from baseball was lifted.

I know how Selig feels, sportswriters feel, players feel...I am curious as to how you feel.

Thanks for any constructive comments on a (currently) hypothetical situation.

[pnoon]

In.
If character and morality were a factor, then a bunch would have to be booted out.
Nobody in my lifetime played as well and as hard every day as Charlie Hustle.

[Darrell]

Pete is a great player, he made a mistake -- but his record as a professional athlete speaks for itself.

LET PETE IN!!!

[Ace$nyper]

He's worthy.

[Emjaysmash]

I have no clue what we talking about... seeing as there was a "I could care less" option I chose that one. ( Not that I actually do care less, im just oblivious.)

[Darrell]

I have no clue what we talking about... seeing as there was a "I could care less" option I chose that one. ( Not that I actually do care less, im just oblivious.)

Thanks for your contribution. :r

[icehog3]

I have no clue what we talking about... seeing as there was a "I could care less" option I chose that one. ( Not that I actually do care less, im just oblivious.)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml?redir :D

[NCRadioMan]

No question in my mind. In. You can't tell me he was the only one that bet on games. He just got caught. There are racists, druggies and overall bad people in the Hall. Pete lived the game all his life and nobody was as dedicated to his craft.

[RichardW]

Pete is a great player, he made a mistake -- but his record as a professional athlete speaks for itself.

LET PETE IN!!!

Well, he made more than one mistake, but he should still be in. It's like "disrepect of cop" -- but unless I missed it, he never did apologize ..

again --> IN!!!

[Old Sailor]

He did the crime, he did the time, it's all in the past as far as I'm concerned......in!

[Emjaysmash]

Thanks for your contribution. :r

Was that sarcasm, Brother?
:D


:fu

[shilala]

Dood, it's Charlie Hustle.
No one every laced up a pair of shoes that played the game harder or with more passion. I can't wait to see him in the Hall. :tu

[Darrell]

Was that sarcasm, Brother?
:D


:fu

NEVER! ;)

On the square,

D

:r

[KidRock]

YES

[MedicCook]

He should most definately should be in the HOF. He is one of the greatest hitters in the history of baseball. Hank Aaron told Selig this past weekend that it is time to lift the ban. I really hope he listens to Hank.

[Savor the Stick]

I voted No. What was the commission trying to accomplish by banning Mr. Rose? I believe they wanted to send a message to others.
Mr. Rose knew what he was doing and the possible consequences. One of the fun things professional athletes give up is gambling.

Lifting the ban and allowing him into the HOF would send a message to others (coming up) that as long as you are a great player you will eventually get away with it. :(

I think he was a great player and would have deserved the honor of HOF.....if he hadn't have done what he knew was against the rules.


;s The ban against Mr. Rose should not be lifted.....Ok Flame on!:rolleyes:

[Azpostal]

He is the greatest hitter in the history of baseball. IN..IN...IN!!!!!!

[adampc22]

why did he get banned for all thos years ?

[Resipsa]

Nope.

Regardless of his contributions on the field, he touched what some have called "the third rail" of baseball by gambling on games he was involved in, and for that the penalty they say is death.

I kind of agree with that analogy. Nobody who has ever bet on baseball has ever been let back in, once you make an exception you open the floodgates and need to justify why this one, and not that one.

Examples are wonderful things, all the more so when the example being made is someone noteworthy. Yup, other players did bad things too, or weren't nice guys (see Ty cobb), but they didn't bet on the game. Not an apples to apples comparison.

Not that I don't appreciate his contributions, but we've all broken things in our lives that we just can't fix, no matter how hard we try or how remorseful we may be.Some things may be forgiven, but can't be forgotten.

As an aside, from what I've read he's never getting in anyways, because the people who do the voting don't want him there.

[gnukfu]

Yeah gambling was/is against the rules and he screwed up. I think he has been punished enough by going through a 20 year sentence excluded from the Hall. Time to let him in.

And if they let even one of the known steroid users in then there is absolutely no excuse to keep him out.

[Volt]

I said no. The fact that "others" have done the same/worse things is not a defense or excuse. He was well beyond the age of knowing what is right and wrong. He chose to break the rules, got caught, and got a punishment. I'd have some respect for him if he cowboy'ed up, went public, said he did it and accepted the punishment like a man.

I'm pretty much a black and white type person. Not saying I don't do wrong but when I do I take what ever comes. Nobody forces me to do "bad" things, momma didn't beat me, I didn't grow up in a "depressed" area, etc. A little personal responsibility and courage would go a long ways in today's society. If he really wants to be a "hero" or an example" - go on tour, tell the kids he screwed up, show respect and responsibility to the game and rules. That being a thug or rule breaker does have consequences.

[taltos]

I also voted no. Gambling is the one area that is unforgivable especially when you are betting on a game in which you are managing one of the teams. It is too easy to fix a game and destroy the credibility that Major League Baseball has worked hard to earn. If Joe Jackson is still banned while there is testimony that he was not involved in the Black Sox Scandal, I can see no credible reason to reverse Rose's ban. Maybe I would agree with the Old Timers Committee voting for his admission after his death so that he could never market himself as a Hall of Famer.

[elderboy02]

Put Pete in! :banger

[shvictor]

As long as he never bet against his own team, he should be in.

[SeanGAR]

Do you get into the HOF for playing achievements or for helping little old ladies cross the road?

Rose, a switch hitter, is the all-time Major League leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053)[1], and outs (10,328). He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, the Rookie of the Year Award, and made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, and 1B).

He didn't fix games, he bet his team would win. According to the Dowd Report itself, "no evidence was discovered that Rose bet against the Reds."

He bet his team would win and he is being placed in with people who knowingly threw games for profit? That's ridiculous.

Rose lied about his gambling for years ... that is the real problem I see here. If he came out at the beginning and admitted he bet that his teams would win ... I can't see giving him a lifetime ban for that.

On February 4, 1991, the Hall of Fame voted to formally exclude individuals on the permanently ineligible list from being inducted into the Hall of Fame by way of the Baseball Writers Association of America vote. AFTER THE FACT.

[vankleekkw]

While betting in sports is against the rules, look at the facts.

1. He did it when he was a Manager and not a player. Ban the Manager Pete, but not the player Pete
2. He always bet that his team would win.

As a side note, if the ban is lifted, the ban on Shoeless Joe needs to be lifted as well.

[vankleekkw]

Oh, and to allow Manny Rameriz back into the sport with open arms after taking Steroids is a shot in everyones face. This sport is starting to get another black eye.

[GreekGodX]

They need to let him in.. He is a better player then a lot of guys already in.

[e-man67]

He gambled, so what...he didn't fix any games and it doesn't make his astounding accomplishments any less...he is one of the greatest players of all times and needs to be in! :banger

[krash]

I voted "It depends". If the other HOF members are OK with him in, let him in. If they don't, he stays out. Pete Rose was a great baseball player. I don't think anyone would disagree with that statement. But, there are other qualifying factors to get into the HOF. I think Bud Selig should lift the ban, and let the voters decide if he should be admitted. Until Selig lifts the ban, nothing is going to happen.

[chippewastud79]

If he would have admitted to betting on his team immediately would this even be a question? Or is it just because he denied it? :hm

He clearly has the numbers to put in his own wing in the Hall of Fame. Not sure another player can rival the numbers he put up or the passion with which he played the game. :2

[shilala]

I also voted no. Gambling is the one area that is unforgivable especially when you are betting on a game in which you are managing one of the teams. It is too easy to fix a game and destroy the credibility that Major League Baseball has worked hard to earn. If Joe Jackson is still banned while there is testimony that he was not involved in the Black Sox Scandal, I can see no credible reason to reverse Rose's ban. Maybe I would agree with the Old Timers Committee voting for his admission after his death so that he could never market himself as a Hall of Famer.


Pete bet on his team to win.
He ain't the Black Sox.
He is a liar though. A bad one, too. And he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
But it's the Hall of Fame, we're not putting him up for sainthood.

[BlackDog]

I voted no. Gambling has no place in baseball. I genuinely doubt he'll ever get in.

[Clampdown]

If Ty Cobb is allowed in, why not Pete?

[Volt]

Pete bet on his team to win.
He ain't the Black Sox.
He is a liar though. A bad one, too. And he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
But it's the Hall of Fame, we're not putting him up for sainthood.

Scott, if I can politely disagree. The HOF is that, the place where people who are the above average people. The ones who had careers that shined for many reasons. He is not IMO. It is to me more than a place of stats. Who were the best that did the most for their sport? Staying with only Pete Rose, he did not.

At best - there will have to be a lot of agreeing to disagree on this man.

[icehog3]

And if they let even one of the known steroid users in then there is absolutely no excuse to keep him out.

Bingo.



He bet his team would win and he is being placed in with people who knowingly threw games for profit? That's ridiculous.



Bingo.

[Resipsa]

For the guys who keep bringing up how good his stats were, I respectfully give u this to chew on.

Rose was not just a player, he was a manager. And as a manager he bet not only on baseball, but on the very team he was managing. Did he bet on them to win, or to lose? We don't know the answer to that ,question. The fCt that the Dowd report concluded there was no evidence of his betting on them to lose doesn't mean he didn't do it. And I'd be willing to bet there's a lot that we don't know about given Fay Vincents being so adamant about not wanting him in. Bottom line is the HOF has players, managers and broadcasters in it, it's not llimited to on field accomplishments as a player, it includes people for their OVERALL contributions to the sport. You can't seperate Rose the played from Rose the manager, and what he did as a manager is so reprehensible and so outside the pale that to me he doesn't belong there

[shilala]

Scott, if I can politely disagree. The HOF is that, the place where people who are the above average people. The ones who had careers that shined for many reasons. He is not IMO. It is to me more than a place of stats. Who were the best that did the most for their sport? Staying with only Pete Rose, he did not.

At best - there will have to be a lot of agreeing to disagree on this man.
Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who threw women down the stairs regularly.
I won't even get started on Ty Cobb. :D

[icehog3]

I disagree Vic....I think you would need to clean house in the HOF if being a good person is one of the requirements! :r

[Resipsa]

I disagree Vic....I think you would need to clean house in the HOF if being a good person is one of the requirements! :r

I respect where your coming from Tom. So……you support Simpsons being in Canton? After all, his crimes are completely unconnected to football:D

[icehog3]

I respect where your coming from Tom. So……you support Simpsons being in Canton? After all, his crimes are completely unconnected to football:D

I do, as well as supporting Ogie Oglethorpe's campaign for the Hockey Hall of Fame. :D

[Resipsa]

I do, as well as supporting Ogie Oglethorpe's campaign for the Hockey Hall of Fame. :D

I think we both knownall about my level of hockey knowledge:r, so you'll have to edumacate me on who Ogie is

[icehog3]

I think we both knownall about my level of hockey knowledge:r, so you'll have to edumacate me on who Ogie is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPEaOKI8ubU :r

[Buckeye Jack]

Most definitely he needs to be let in as a player. You can go in as both a player and a manager. His stats as a player would have made him a first ballot hall of famer.

Because of what he did as a manager, he should never go in as a manager. Had he never managed a baseball game in his life, he would be in. Nothing he did as a player is keeping him out.

[tobii3]

http://apudgeisasandwich.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/pete-rose.jpg

Absolutely.

[Volt]

Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who threw women down the stairs regularly.
I won't even get started on Ty Cobb. :D

That's why I was trying to stay on topic with Pete Rose. Adding 1 more bad individual just because others are already there doesn't work for me.

[shilala]

Most definitely he needs to be let in as a player. You can go in as both a player and a manager. His stats as a player would have made him a first ballot hall of famer.

From 84 to 86 he was a player/manager.
He broke Ty Cobb's all-time hits record as a player/manager.
That makes things a bit more sticky and confusing.

I think Pete screwed up from the get-go because he was pretty egotistical. Had he just said "hell yeah, I love gambling, and I love my boys, and I'm sorry and I won't do it again", he'd have been embraced, cause everyone loved Charlie Hustle.
He's a knucklehead though, and he had a serious gambling problem that's obvious to anyone who's ever followed his ups and downs. Whether he's ever got that under control, I don't know.
Add to all his other accomplishments on the field, he's also a Vet.
We should send him some cigars. :tu

[kelmac07]

How can you have the record holder for the most hits ever not be in the Hall of Fame? YES!!!!!!!!!

[Volt]

How can you have the record holder for the most hits ever not be in the Hall of Fame? YES!!!!!!!!!

hehe, I was waiting on you to chime in. Mr. Baseball!

[Starscream]

2. He always bet that his team would win.

We all bet on our own teams to win, in one form or another. This helps drive the desire to win.
If he would have admitted to betting on his team immediately would this even be a question? Or is it just because he denied it? :hm

He clearly has the numbers to put in his own wing in the Hall of Fame. Not sure another player can rival the numbers he put up or the passion with which he played the game. :2
Pete wasn't a nice guy when he was playing. I hear he pissed off a bunch of people both as a player and a manager. His attitude didn't help him out of this situation by any means.

He clearly does have the numbers to open up his own wing!:tu Free Pete!
Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who threw women down the stairs regularly.
I won't even get started on Ty Cobb. :D
Bobby Cox (a future HOFer) beat his wife.
DiMaggio had mob connections.
Mantle was an alcoholic.
John McGraw cheated when the umpire wasn't looking.
The list goes on.

[shilala]

Bobby Cox (a future HOFer) beat his wife.
DiMaggio had mob connections.
Mantle was an alcoholic.
John McGraw cheated when the umpire wasn't looking.
The list goes on.

That sews up the "you gotta be a good human" to be in the HOF argument pretty well. :)
People are people.
I play the game like Pete plays the game, always did. He's who taught me.
Not a day did he not give 1000%.
I think he might even love playing ball more than I do. I doubt it though.
Last summer I played softball and stroked two homers with a broken back and hadn't picked up a bat in six months. I also snagged a diving liner at short and had to have the second and third basemen get me off the ground.
I laid in bed for three days after that.
It was worth every minute. :D

[VTDragon]

Most of us who watch and enjoy sports do so under the assumption that the games are on the up and up. Otherwise all sports would be like professional wrestling. Sure, players will try lots of stuff, chemical and whatever to try to improve their performance, but I think most of us can at least accept that they are not fixing the games, they are trying to improve.

I do not think the same can be said of a gambler. All a gambler cares about is that the team he bet on ends up on top. Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.

I do not dispute his many accomplishments and am very leary of applying criterion of things done outside of baseball to admittance into the Hall, but in this case, because gambling goes to the very integrity of the game, I think he shouuld be banned.

[joed]

I think that he should be let in the day after his ban expires! I wouldn't lift the ban which was set for "life" not forever.

[AD720]

Most of us who watch and enjoy sports do so under the assumption that the games are on the up and up. Otherwise all sports would be like professional wrestling. Sure, players will try lots of stuff, chemical and whatever to try to improve their performance, but I think most of us can at least accept that they are not fixing the games, they are trying to improve.

I do not think the same can be said of a gambler. All a gambler cares about is that the team he bet on ends up on top. Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.

I do not dispute his many accomplishments and am very leary of applying criterion of things done outside of baseball to admittance into the Hall, but in this case, because gambling goes to the very integrity of the game, I think he shouuld be banned.

So gambling goes to the very integrity of the game but steroids do not?

Disagree.

[galaga]

I think that he should be let in the day after his ban expires! I wouldn't lift the ban which was set for "life" not forever.

:tpd:

I agree....

The rules are supposedly posted in every club house since the Black Sox scandal. He walked by them every day. I have trouble putting up with liars...

[Darrell]

How can you have the record holder for the most hits ever not be in the Hall of Fame? YES!!!!!!!!!

No. ****ing. ****.

:tu

[BigAsh]

4,000 + reasons he should be in the HOF.....YES!

[St. Lou Stu]

I voted that he should be in the HOF.

However, if he is voted in that sets a very sad precedence for the jackasses who took every drug and hormone they could get their hands on just to be something that they never would have been without CHEATING.

The dudes who take drugs and hormones shouldn't be allowed. Period.
Hard work Talent, and Hustle is what make you a Hall of Famer. Not Science.

Pete had all of that, unfortunately he did break rules that shouldn't be bent for anyone.
If ya bend the rules for someone, ya got to do it for everyone.

Sad, but true.

It woulda been nice if he didn't get caught.

[joed]

the discussion on the steriod users is interesting when talking about the hall of fame. The owners and commissioners had to know it was happening - just look at the players - and they chose to stick their heads in the sand and let it continue. When folks got caught, they are all up in arms. I just don't know.

And now talk about how all of the baseball world talks about pitch count - are there any modern era pitchers that should be put in the hall of fame? My thought is no - Guys like Nolan Ryan, Catfish Hunter and Sandy Koufax threw more complete games in one season than the most dominate pitcher today will have in his career! Figure that one out if you can.

[shilala]

Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.
You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.

[VirtualSmitty]

I voted no. Though i'm not sure I can really offer a fair opinion. He retired when I was 4, I never saw him play. I grew up with Pete Rose the joke. Gambler, liar, hustler, chicken suit, do anything for a buck Pete Rose. I just can't see putting such a low life next to guys like Cal Ripken or Hank Aaaron, who weren't just great ball players, but real ambassadors for the sport.

[Starscream]

You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.

:tpd:


I might agree with those who want him to finish the lifetime ban, as long as he gets inducted the year that he dies. His record as a player deserves to be honored. How can the greatest hitter in the game not be recognized in Cooperstown? As long as he gets in, I'm fine with it. I just hope I'm around to see it.

I will admit that I'm very biased on this subject, as I'm a die-hard Reds fan. We're known for three things: being the first professional baseball team, the Big Red Machine, and Charlie Hustle. (No offense to all of the other great Reds players through the years that weren't a part of the BRM: Larkin, Sabo, Davis, F. Robinson, O'Neill, and countless others.)

[MedicCook]

Actually 4 things Andy. Marge Schott. :r

[vicvitola]

In, no question.

[gorob23]

No!

great player but let's try and keep high standards SOMEWHERE!

Rob :tpd:

[TheTraveler]

No!

great player but let's try and keep high standards SOMEWHERE!

Rob :tpd:

I feel sympathy for the guy. I've got weaknesses and I've done things that run the gamut from "silly" to "stupid" to "hey, that guy needs his a$$ whipped for that sh%t". However, I do believe that standards need to be met - we shouldn't lower standards to help people meet them.

He was a great player and his record speaks for itself. If I had a vote I'd vote for a literal interpretation of the "lifetime" ban and allow them to vote on his admission posthumously.

;s Sorry Pete, you were great, but you screwed the pooch. :shrug :(

[darb85]

if they let vick back in the NFL after what he did, Rose's offences pale to compare. LET HIM IN!

[Ashcan Bill]

I saw Pete play many, many times at Dodger Stadium.

I was there the day he turned around and flipped off the entire left field pavilion. That one didn't make the news.

Letting him in to the Hall of Fame cheapens the institution and degrades the honorable players that have, and will be, admitted.

I vote no.

Only my personal opinion, not worth much.

[icehog3]

I saw Pete play many, many times at Dodger Stadium.

I was there the day he turned around and flipped off the entire left field pavilion. That one didn't make the news.

Letting him in to the Hall of Fame cheapens the institution and degrades the honorable players that have, and will be, admitted.

I vote no.

Only my personal opinion, not worth much.

It is worth as much as any of ours. :)

But what about the less than honorable members of the Hall?...there are quite a few of them.

[Ashcan Bill]

It is worth as much as any of ours. :)

But what about the less than honorable members of the Hall?...there are quite a few of them.

Agreed - some aren't worthy and shouldn't be there. But I can't go back in time and vote in a friendly poll prior to their induction, now can I? :r

[icehog3]

Agreed - some aren't worthy and shouldn't be there. But I can't go back in time and vote in a friendly poll prior to their induction, now can I? :r

Fair enough. You against any steroid users making the Hall, I assume. :)

[The Poet]

There is no doubt there are a number of jerks and @$$holes already in the HOF. There is also no doubt that Pete Rose had the numbers to warrant first-ballot selection. However, rules are rules. If the rules are changed to satisfy Rose, or his fans, then why should not rules be changed to suit other violators, whatever they may be guilty of? Do you really want to open that door?

Did Pete Rose earn a spot in the HOF on the field? Yes. Did Pete Rose lose that right due to his actions? Yes. Should he be in the Hall? If you are willing to change the rules to allow others entry, past or future, no matter what their crime, then vote yes - otherwise, vote no. I vote no.

As for steroid use, it is and was definitely cheating - but until quite recently, it was not against the rules as written. Is this fair? Probably not, but that's the fact. Like it, hate it, whatever - unless this violation is grandfathered in, you have no choice but to accept it. As always, just :2

:ss

[MedicCook]

What about all the players from the 60's on who used the geenies? They could be considered PED and they were also illegal.

Back on topic though. I still think Rose should be part of the HOF for his playing career. He was retired from baseball as a player. What about someone who was in the HOF as a player already and was now involved in baseball and had the same issue? Should he have is HOF status taken away?

[Ashcan Bill]

Fair enough. You against any steroid users making the Hall, I assume. :)

Tough question, and the honest answer is I'm not sure. I'm not in the least hung up over what someone wants to do with their body, although I'm not sure it's fair to compare a juicer to a non-juicer when it comes to setting records. I wouldn't think it's fair to compare men and women when it comes to the record books either.

If someone wants to juice up, it doesn't bother me any. (Lord knows the things I've subjected my own body to over the years.) I do think they should come clean and admit it, though.

So, if they are honest enough to admit they used steroids, I suppose I'm basically in favor of letting them in, with a mention that they used roids. Then the future generations can make up their own minds.

How about Shoeless Joe? In or out?

[icehog3]

How about Shoeless Joe? In or out?

My opinion? In. Guilty by association, not because of personal wrong-doing.

[joed]

My opinion? In. Guilty by association, not because of personal wrong-doing.

I agree.

[bobarian]

After thinking about this for a couple of days, I voted no. But I am not against him being enshrined if the Vet's committee votes him in. I think they are a much better judge that the sportswriters in this situation. His stats as a player speak for themselves, but his actions as a manager and his willingness to lie for so many years leaves me with concerns.

As for the PED users, I think that is a more difficult issue. Many used before bans were enacted, many are suspected. Many are shown to have used under testing standards that are not acceptable today. Do we just throw out the past 25 years under assumption that all the records are tainted?

[MedicCook]

My opinion? In. Guilty by association, not because of personal wrong-doing.

I also agree. The players involved even stated that Shoeless Joe did not take any money.

[MedicCook]

As for the PED users, I think that is a more difficult issue. Many used before bans were enacted, many are suspected. Many are shown to have used under testing standards that are not acceptable today. Do we just throw out the past 25 years under assumption that all the records are tainted?

There may not have been any MLB bans but steroids were still an illegal item to be using without a legitimate perscription from a doctor. They still broke the law.

[bobarian]

There may not have been any MLB bans but steroids were still an illegal item to be using without a legitimate perscription from a doctor. They still broke the law.

I dont believe that would disqualify a player under the current rules of the Hall.
Pete was banned due to a violation of the morals clause. Same reason Willie Mays was prevented from working for a NJ casino, associating with gamblers is specifically prohibited.

[Ashcan Bill]

My opinion? In. Guilty by association, not because of personal wrong-doing.

I agree.

I also agree. The players involved even stated that Shoeless Joe did not take any money.

As do I. The evidence against him is questionable.

[vankleekkw]

As far as Shoeless goes, he was dumber than a box of rocks. He had one of the greatest series of all times and he is still not allowed in the Hall. BS if you ask me.

However, I think that the steriod era of the late 90's/ early 00's should be in the HOF. This was the single thing that pulled Baseball out of the crapper. Everyone remembers the 5000 or less fans in the stadiums until McGwire/ Sosa race. EVERYONE knew they were juiced, but no one cared because the fans were flocking back into the stadiums.

[Gophernut]

Pete did apologize for betting on baseball, just not as sincerely as people would have liked. I loved watching Pete play the game. How many doubles did he get out of singles that he hustled on? The 44 game hit streak. He was one of the best players of all time. That is what he should be in the hall for.
Granted he was lying at the time, but I still like the way he made Jim Gray look like an a$$hat.

Let's not forget that he was also voted onto the all century team. One of only 30 players on that list. That list came out after his ban.

[icehog3]

After thinking about this for a couple of days, I voted no. But I am not against him being enshrined if the Vet's committee votes him in. I think they are a much better judge that the sportswriters in this situation.

I believe that is the only way he can get in, Bob, as they did not "stop the clock" regarding his 15 years of eligibilty during the ban. :)

[hornitosmonster]

I voted yes.

[bobarian]

I believe that is the only way he can get in, Bob, as they did not "stop the clock" regarding his 15 years of eligibilty during the ban. :)

Yes. Its up to the Vets committee. I said this meaning that if the Vets approve him being in their hall then its kind of like your mom allowing a friend in who you dont like. Its their house.

[icehog3]

Yes. Its up to the Vets committee. I said this meaning that if the Vets approve him being in their hall then its kind of like your mom allowing a friend in who you dont like. Its their house.

Word, My Brother. :tu

[gettysburgfreak]

Personally based on his credentials as a ball player I 100% think the guy belongs in the hall. He was one hell of a baseball player who played the game the way it was meant to be played-balls to the wall, you go hard on every play. Now having said that I have met the guy and hes a prick.

I was in Cooperstown a number of years ago with my dad and we were coming out of a restroom of the shop where Rose signs stuff every year at the hall of fame inductions and he was right outside the door kind of hanging out. I was probably 16 or so at the time and asked him if he would sign a baseball I had in my pocket. He said to me "do you have a ticket?" I asked him what for and his response was "if you don't have a ticket I won't sign anything" Well the ticket was for 40 bucks to get a ball signed later in the day.

[Resipsa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPEaOKI8ubU :r
you asshat, I didn't get the reference at first, :r:r

[Whee]

He is the greatest hitter in the history of baseball. IN..IN...IN!!!!!!

:tpd:

Needs to be put to bed and voted in.

[Resipsa]

You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.not finding evidence of his having placed bets against his team is not the same thing as saying he didn't do it.:2

[icehog3]

Personally based on his credentials as a ball player I 100% think the guy belongs in the hall. He was one hell of a baseball player who played the game the way it was meant to be played-balls to the wall, you go hard on every play. Now having said that I have met the guy and hes a prick.

I was in Cooperstown a number of years ago with my dad and we were coming out of a restroom of the shop where Rose signs stuff every year at the hall of fame inductions and he was right outside the door kind of hanging out. I was probably 16 or so at the time and asked him if he would sign a baseball I had in my pocket. He said to me "do you have a ticket?" I asked him what for and his response was "if you don't have a ticket I won't sign anything" Well the ticket was for 40 bucks to get a ball signed later in the day.

If he is a prick because he signs things for money, then 95% of ex-ballplayers must be pricks. ;)

you asshat, I didn't get the reference at first, :r:r

:r

[gettysburgfreak]

I was referring to the fact that he didn't even take a second to sign a ball for me or engage in a quick conversation with me and my dad. Rose is my dads favorite baseball player and the only thing Rose said to us was do you have a ticket. I am all for paying for an autograph as it one of my hobbies but not taking one minute and signing a ball for a kid in the back of a building where nobody else was around is crap.

[icehog3]

I was referring to the fact that he didn't even take a second to sign a ball for me or engage in a quick conversation with me and my dad. Rose is my dads favorite baseball player and the only thing Rose said to us was do you have a ticket. I am all for paying for an autograph as it one of my hobbies but not taking one minute and signing a ball for a kid in the back of a building where nobody else was around is crap.

I had a similar disappointing situation when I met my childhood hero as an adult (Stan Mikita), so I apologize for minimizing your story. :)

[vankleekkw]

The worst I saw was Scottie Pippin, the azzhat. walked past all the kids, looked at a handicapped kid in a wheelchair, and said "I dont do autographs".
Posted via Mobile Device

[shilala]

The worst I saw was Scottie Pippin, the azzhat. walked past all the kids, looked at a handicapped kid in a wheelchair, and said "I dont do autographs".
Posted via Mobile Device
You should consider yourself to have never been graced by Barry Bonds.
I had the privelage to meet him on a number of occasions.
I'm not sure what a$$hole college he went to, but he definately finished at the top of his class. :tu

[vankleekkw]

I think it is Cali players. I had Bud Black tell me he didnt know how to sign. My dad then asked him how he signed his paycheck. He flicked us off and went to the dugout getting booed.
Posted via Mobile Device

[mojo65]

IN for his play on the field.

[BlackDog]

I think this may help put the matter in some kind of perspective.

There is only one rule in regards to criteria for membership in the Baseball HOF, and that is Rule Five:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played

Link - HOF Rules (http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/rules.jsp)

[icehog3]

I think this may help put the matter in some kind of perspective.

There is only one rule in regards to criteria for membership in the Baseball HOF, and that is Rule Five:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played

Link - HOF Rules (http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/rules.jsp)

It really doesn't though, because there are many HOF'ers with what I would consider questionable character or integrity.

[jledou]

If Mantle's ban was not lifted on his death bed then why should Rose's?

[BlackDog]

If Mantle's ban was not lifted on his death bed then why should Rose's?

Excellent point. Neither Mantle or Mays were never even remotely alleged to have gambled on baseball games. Their only "crimes" were that they were hired to be greeters at casinos well after they retired from MLB. Wear a sport coat, greet patrons of the casino, sign autographs, etc. For this they were banned from baseball for life.

[VirtualSmitty]

Excellent point. Neither Mantle or Mays were never even remotely alleged to have gambled on baseball games. Their only "crimes" were that they were hired to be greeters at casinos well after they retired from MLB. Wear a sport coat, greet patrons of the casino, sign autographs, etc. For this they were banned from baseball for life.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I though both were reinstated by commissioner Peter Ueberroth?

[BlackDog]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I though both were reinstated by commissioner Peter Ueberroth?
I stand corrected. Smitty knows his baseball. Here is a sentence from Wikipedia:

Hall of Famer Willie Mays, who had also taken a similar position, had already had action taken against him. Mantle accepted the position, regardless, as he felt the rule was "stupid." He was placed on the list, but reinstated on March 18, 1985, by Kuhn's successor, Peter Ueberroth.