Fridge "reclamation" project (pic heavy)

[BigAsh]

The back story:.....Moved into this house about 3 1/2 years ago....there was a very old fridge in the basement, an old GE apartment size model...
prior owner kept beer in there (bastid took out the case while we were at settlement!)....lt was in bad cosmetic shape but got cold so we kept it in basement.....plugged in.....sucking up electricity....not being used (we have 2 full size new fridges and a small dorm size one for my BBQ sauces, and other cooking condiments).....cleaning out basement in April......hmmm, maybe I can turn this into a humi...I decide to open door.....OMG!!!....
Ice monster took over....the inner freezer compartment was frozen shut with ice oozing out (obviously NOT frost-free).....wife sez "Throw it out!!....I say "hmmm, maybe I can turn this into a humi"...:r....as she shakes her head and walks away...... a little paint, some elbow grease, some shelves from Chuck/Chasden, some beads from Scott/shilala, a Johnson controller from Gary/reflex, etc. etc.....anyway I defrosted (found some "mystery" items embedded in the ice, it was like the Discovery Channel!) and cleaned ....take a look....
A little ice with your fridge?
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/284.jpg
Oozing out the back/bottom of freezer:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/293.jpg
After several hour was able to pry open the freezer door, OMG:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/292.jpg
THe next day, ice finally all gone, notice a little door damage?:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/301.jpg

[AD720]

Looks good Keith. I'm looking forward to seeing it all cleaned up.

[The Poet]

I do not know from personal experience, but have been told those older, thick-walled, non-frostfree fridges are the best choice for your hummie project. Best of luck with it - and the missus.

[BigAsh]

Then took apart door, removed the gasket (is it supposed to be black?!?), primer coat of paint.....
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/298.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/362.jpg

I put the first coat on already and need to take some pics....also need to get a hold of Chuck for the "interior"....traded for the Johnson controller so i can regulate temp....plan on beads for the humidity.....

[BigAsh]

Looks good Keith. I'm looking forward to seeing it all cleaned up.

Thanks Andrew....hoping to get it done in time for a Philly herf by the pool...

I do not know from personal experience, but have been told those older, thick-walled, non-frostfree fridges are the best choice for your hummie project. Best of luck with it - and the missus.

Thanks....luckily she "indulges" my vices......

[Smokin Gator]

That is a great start to what I would bet will be an awesome humi. Thanks for sharing brother!!

[BigAsh]

Thanks Bro'....its no "Gator Den" man-cave (which is sweet btw), but its a start....

[MedicCook]

Looks like you have a good start. Can't wait until the finished product.

[cricky101]

Very cool! I subscribed to the thread so I can keep up on your progress. Good luck!

[dunng]

Very nice! Flat black finish? :D

[AD720]

Thanks Andrew....hoping to get it done in time for a Philly herf by the pool...


:wo:wo

[kelmac07]

Looking good Keith!! Can't wait to see the final product.

[bowhnter]

That looked rough, any hotdogs left up in there? :D

Looks like a nice project, Keith :tu

[ChasDen]

Building drawers for it is defiantly doable :tu

Another really cool thing to do would be to replace the inside (Insert) of the door with a sheet of Spanish Cedar instead of putting back the door insert. That way the inside of the door would not get in the way of the drawers and it would add major "cool factor" to the unit. Since you got it torn apart already I would consider it. Let me know the measurements and I can get you a price. If you really want to trick the thing out, send me the door, I will gut the door insulation, reline it with ridged Styrofoam and then line it with cedar and build mini trays inside the door :D

Chas

[kgoings]

What are you going to do about the freezer? Are you going to remove that element and just use the fridge part?

[BigAsh]

Building drawers for it is defiantly doable :tu

Another really cool thing to do would be to replace the inside (Insert) of the door with a sheet of Spanish Cedar instead of putting back the door insert. That way the inside of the door would not get in the way of the drawers and it would add major "cool factor" to the unit. Since you got it torn apart already I would consider it. Let me know the measurements and I can get you a price. If you really want to trick the thing out, send me the door, I will gut the door insulation, reline it with ridged Styrofoam and then line it with cedar and build mini trays inside the door :D

Chas

Chuck....you are an evil man.....but I like it! :dance: .....
I'll get the measurements and we'll talk.....

What are you going to do about the freezer? Are you going to remove that element and just use the fridge part?

I think the Johnson controller will take care of that....externally set the temp to 65-70.....freezer should never come into play....I think anyway....anyone with experience in this?

[shilala]

I think the Johnson controller will take care of that....externally set the temp to 65-70.....freezer should never come into play....I think anyway....anyone with experience in this?
Yes, it will certainly come into play, it's your evaporator. It's the part that makes the cold.
Every time the compressor comes on it will get cold and all the water vapor in your fridge will condense on it.
You'll need to arrange some fans to dry the inside and outside of the evaporator (freezer) or it will drip all over your stuff.
You could insulate the outside of the evaporator very carefully and just put fans on the inside and that should work. Depends where the coils lie in the evaporator.
You really couldn't have picked a worse kind of fridge to make workable. :)

[BigAsh]

.......
You really couldn't have picked a worse kind of fridge to make workable. :)

.....are you dressed in black, with a hood, holding a sickle? :r
Just workin with what I got bro'.....now you gotta rig something up for me :tu

[shilala]

.....are you dressed in black, with a hood, holding a sickle? :r
Just workin with what I got bro'.....now you gotta rig something up for me :tu
I could figure something out if I could see the evaporator configuration.
A drip pan under the whole thing would work, but you couldn't put anything in it.
If just the top and bottom have the coils in them, the freezer could be cut down and made smaller.
You got me stumped and I design refrigeration for a living. :D

[ChasDen]

Is the "metal freezer body" part of the unit or just a box?

Can it be removed to just expose the coils you talk of?

If so why not just make a small pan to collect the water and drain it out the back into say a gallon jug?

It could be sealed so no air exchange takes place from inside to out and could be emptied as it fills up.

How much condensation are we talking here, a gallon a day, a week a month?

Chas

[shilala]

Is the "metal freezer body" part of the unit or just a box?

Can it be removed to just expose the coils you talk of?

How much condensation are we talking here, a gallon a day, a week a month?

Chas
Usually the coils are soldered onto the freezer body, or built in.
Not likely.
Did you see the ice clunker?
That's how much water vapor it'll rape from the air.
That's why we build closed systems for cigars, so we can maintain humidity without adding or removing water from the confined area.
If you collect water in a jug and then use a fan to recycle it back into the beads or air, you have a zero net loss/gain. That'd work. That's what you want.
If you keep taking water out, you gotta put it back in. That's a pain in the ass. You have to fill hydras, add sponges, and do all sorts of stuff, and you really never gain control or stability.
That's the problem I have with my big leaky display.
On the other hand, vinos and wine fridges work great if you plug the drain and let the fan run because the water constantly recycles itself.
This fridge can be made to work, but it'll take some ingenuity.
If the evaporator can't be cut down, all that freezer space will be lost because anything that touches it will get wet when it turns on.
A drip pan underneath could catch water, then a fan could be used to dry things and recycle the condensed water to the air, creating a zero net loss/gain of water.
There's all sorts of stuff that could be done, it just depends on that evaporator.
In that particular type of fridge, the INTENTION is for frost to build on the freezer section. That's what cools the fridge below and holds the condensed water (in ice form) from dripping on your food.
It's cause that's the way they work. :)
It's an old fridge, too. Through the years they devised lots better ways to do things. :tu

[ChasDen]

Thanks for all the info Scott :tu

Looks like a tough road ahead :(

Chas

[shilala]

Lots of good pics of the freezer section would help.
It looks like there's a drain in the back right corner. Just can't tell.
If I could jam my face in it, I could figure something out real quick. :)
It's just too far away. :(

[BigAsh]

Lots of good pics of the freezer section would help.
It looks like there's a drain in the back right corner. Just can't tell.
If I could jam my face in it, I could figure something out real quick. :)
It's just too far away. :(

According to Google maps you're only 4 hrs 37 minutes away :r

Here's my thought, from a completely "ignorant of refrigeration properties" standpoint:...For most of the year, the area where it will be kept will be at house temps of 65-75 degrees so either the external controller won't kick in to run the condenser, or I can leave unplugged....for the summer, when it gets hot/humid around here the AC goes on so still should be in moderate temps, but when away from house, etc. the unit will need to be cooled...So, the condenser issue may not be that big a deal ....wait, let me adjust my rose-colored glasses.....anyway, I'll take a bunch of pics of the freezer unit and post 'em up soon

[AD720]

According to Google maps you're only 4 hrs 37 minutes away :r

Here's my thought, from a completely "ignorant of refrigeration properties" standpoint:...For most of the year, the area where it will be kept will be at house temps of 65-75 degrees so either the external controller won't kick in to run the condenser, or I can leave unplugged....for the summer, when it gets hot/humid around here the AC goes on so still should be in moderate temps, but when away from house, etc. the unit will need to be cooled...So, the condenser issue may not be that big a deal ....wait, let me adjust my rose-colored glasses.....anyway, I'll take a bunch of pics of the freezer unit and post 'em up soon

Is there are option to keep it in your basement? I keep my coolers in the basement and I've never seen it go higher than 70 degrees.

[avid toker]

Best of luck with the project. I used a similar fridge for a humi. Truth be told, my basement stayed a constant 65-70 degrees so I never plugged it in. A few strategically placed beads and a few fans and all was good. It stayed in the high 60s to low 70s all year round. Every year or so, I'd simply rotate the top shelf boxes to the bottom, etc.

Since it does insulate very well, be on the look out for mold if your RH% creeps up. Good luck!

[BigAsh]

Maybe....but if it comes out "cool", I want to show it off!

[shilala]

So, the condenser issue may not be that big a deal ....wait, let me adjust my rose-colored glasses.....anyway, I'll take a bunch of pics of the freezer unit and post 'em up soon
It doesn't matter if the compressor only pushes for a few minutes, condensation will occur. It's just the way she goes. :)
Whether it's going to be a problem is a whole nother story.
Anything can be fixed.
A buddy of mine at work used to always say "it's impossible".
I'd answer him with "That's why we're here. You wanna go sit in the truck?"
Get them pics. :tu

[BigAsh]

alrighty then.....I see what I'm doing tonite...... pics shortly!

[BigAsh]

Pics of the first coat of paint....a nice subtle RED....

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/113.jpg

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/111.jpg

[BigAsh]

Scott....here's the freezer pics.....
Coils underneath:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/129.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/128.jpg
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/116.jpg

Coils on top:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/125.jpg

[BigAsh]

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/123.jpg

Right side:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/120.jpg

Above coil attaches to these screws on inside wall of freezer:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/126.jpg

Attaches freezer at top:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/127.jpg

There is a drip tray:
http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll369/kdos66/FRIG-A-DOR/131.jpg


Scott, need more?....any add'l thoughts on condenser issues?....Thanks for your input....

[shilala]

K, Keith.
See those coils? That's what will get cold. Then they are glued, soldered, and clamped to the freezer body. It's most likely aluminum, because aluminum is almost as good as copper at transferring heat.
What you could do is tear off the freezer door, insulate the inside of the freezer with foam (like 1 inch blue stuff), seal that foam around the seams with silicone, then you could store stuff in the freezer section.
That'll keep and condenstaion from touching your stuff, but creates a very high liklihood of mold growing behind the foam.
If you can build a form inside the freezer out of wood, space it from the walls, and blow it full of canned foam, that'd be ultra-awesome. No mold, because there'd be no place for it to grow.

You could also simply build shelves in the freezer, and add a computer fan in there.
You'd have to be VERY careful that nothing (boxes, etc.) ever touches the sides, and be sure that there's plenty of sirculation for the fan to dry the condensation and return it to the air.

Now, the drip pan....
You somehow have to return any drip water to the air. Fans would do it. They make little 60 mm computer fans that'd work. They even have 40 mm fans that would work and be smaller.

It all depends where you put it. If it's in a warm area and it's gonna run a lot, there's going to be lots of condensate (water). If it's in a cool area, it'll run very little and need far less air movement to dry the condensed water and return it to your beads.

Yes, you can remove the freezer if you don't want any cooling. The coils that are on the freezer are where heat transfer happens. Inside those coils reside refrigerant.
To remove the coils from the freezer walls, bundle them, and use them as a chiller would work, but aluminum is VERY fragile. The odds of doing that without blowing a hole are about one in a million.

The best way to approach it is to finish it up, make your shelves or whatever, put beads in it, run it and see what happens.
Then you can make the necessary mods to make it work the way you want it to.
that's what I do. :)

The inherent design and particular formation of the freezer body and how it works is what's screwing you over. It's designed to condense and drip on the inside and outside of the freezer body so it keeps water off your food.
The ice that forms on/in the freezer is what cools the food below.
There's a thermostat below in the food section that drives the freezer unit to cool, thus ensuring the cycle.
The freezer section is the evaporator.
The coils on the back of your fridge are the condenser.
The compressor is underneath your fridge near the back.
Don't get "water condensing on the evaporator" confused with the condenser on the back of your fridge. It'll just make you more confused.
The reason they call the thing inside your fridge an evaporator (your freezer) is because that's where liquid refrigerant evaporates (inside those tubes) and gathers heat. It then carries the heat back to the compressor, is compressed and multiplied, then the heat is released in the condenser coil where it turns back to a liquid, and heads back to your freezer through an orifice where it "flashes" back to a saturated vapor and starts gathering heat again.
That's the confusing part, kinda. We think the freezer is "making cold", but it's actually carrying away heat.

So you either keep the freezer, or don't have any cooling.
Add some fans and see what happens.
The pains in the ass may be minimal, and might be easy to fix. Ultimately you might even be able to use the freezer section.
If nothing else, you could always use jar humis (http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/147052-project-day-bail-jar-humidor.html) (beware, puff link) in the freezer section. :tu

[BigAsh]

K, Keith.
See those coils? That's what will get cold. Then they are glued, soldered, and clamped to the freezer body. It's most likely aluminum, because aluminum is almost as good as copper at transferring heat.
What you could do is tear off the freezer door, insulate the inside of the freezer with foam (like 1 inch blue stuff), seal that foam around the seams with silicone, then you could store stuff in the freezer section.
That'll keep and condenstaion from touching your stuff, but creates a very high liklihood of mold growing behind the foam.
If you can build a form inside the freezer out of wood, space it from the walls, and blow it full of canned foam, that'd be ultra-awesome. No mold, because there'd be no place for it to grow.

You could also simply build shelves in the freezer, and add a computer fan in there.
You'd have to be VERY careful that nothing (boxes, etc.) ever touches the sides, and be sure that there's plenty of sirculation for the fan to dry the condensation and return it to the air.

Now, the drip pan....
You somehow have to return any drip water to the air. Fans would do it. They make little 60 mm computer fans that'd work. They even have 40 mm fans that would work and be smaller.

It all depends where you put it. If it's in a warm area and it's gonna run a lot, there's going to be lots of condensate (water). If it's in a cool area, it'll run very little and need far less air movement to dry the condensed water and return it to your beads.

Yes, you can remove the freezer if you don't want any cooling. The coils that are on the freezer are where heat transfer happens. Inside those coils reside refrigerant.
To remove the coils from the freezer walls, bundle them, and use them as a chiller would work, but aluminum is VERY fragile. The odds of doing that without blowing a hole are about one in a million.

The best way to approach it is to finish it up, make your shelves or whatever, put beads in it, run it and see what happens.
Then you can make the necessary mods to make it work the way you want it to.
that's what I do. :)

The inherent design and particular formation of the freezer body and how it works is what's screwing you over. It's designed to condense and drip on the inside and outside of the freezer body so it keeps water off your food.
The ice that forms on/in the freezer is what cools the food below.
There's a thermostat below in the food section that drives the freezer unit to cool, thus ensuring the cycle.
The freezer section is the evaporator.
The coils on the back of your fridge are the condenser.
The compressor is underneath your fridge near the back.
Don't get "water condensing on the evaporator" confused with the condenser on the back of your fridge. It'll just make you more confused.
The reason they call the thing inside your fridge an evaporator (your freezer) is because that's where liquid refrigerant evaporates (inside those tubes) and gathers heat. It then carries the heat back to the compressor, is compressed and multiplied, then the heat is released in the condenser coil where it turns back to a liquid, and heads back to your freezer through an orifice where it "flashes" back to a saturated vapor and starts gathering heat again.
That's the confusing part, kinda. We think the freezer is "making cold", but it's actually carrying away heat.

So you either keep the freezer, or don't have any cooling.
Add some fans and see what happens.
The pains in the ass may be minimal, and might be easy to fix. Ultimately you might even be able to use the freezer section.
If nothing else, you could always use jar humis (http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/147052-project-day-bail-jar-humidor.html) (beware, puff link) in the freezer section. :tu

Thanks Scott...you are a wealth of knowledge and a fine BOTL!....I'm gonna try it and see what happens....I'm optimistic all will work out well in the end.....Next will be firming up with Chuck on shelves/drawers.....

[kgoings]

Did you finish this??

[BigAsh]

everything but the shelves!.....Chuck made some killer trays (his work is awesome) but my measurements were off a bit so we're still working thru it....its painted and storing boxes and five finger bags right now ......holding steady with 2 lbs of beads.... hoping to finish it completely soon!

[kgoings]

everything but the shelves!.....Chuck made some killer trays (his work is awesome) but my measurements were off a bit so we're still working thru it....its painted and storing boxes and five finger bags right now ......holding steady with 2 lbs of beads.... hoping to finish it completely soon!

anymore pics?

[paris1129]

We want new pics! :D

[AD720]

:np


:D

[BigAsh]

hahahaha......:r:r.....no pressure or anything!......I'll work on it!....Once Chuck and I figure out a fix, look out! :tu

[ChasDen]

I'm pretty sure I have the "fix" in my head, just need to put it to paper and move out 100 trays that are scattered all over the place right now :D.

Chas

[BigAsh]

I'm pretty sure I have the "fix" in my head, just need to put it to paper and move out 100 trays that are scattered all over the place right now :D.

Chas

:banger.....I know it'll be worth the wait!

[bsmokin]

K, Keith.
See those coils? That's what will get cold. Then they are glued, soldered, and clamped to the freezer body. It's most likely aluminum, because aluminum is almost as good as copper at transferring heat.
What you could do is tear off the freezer door, insulate the inside of the freezer with foam (like 1 inch blue stuff), seal that foam around the seams with silicone, then you could store stuff in the freezer section.
That'll keep and condenstaion from touching your stuff, but creates a very high liklihood of mold growing behind the foam.
If you can build a form inside the freezer out of wood, space it from the walls, and blow it full of canned foam, that'd be ultra-awesome. No mold, because there'd be no place for it to grow.

You could also simply build shelves in the freezer, and add a computer fan in there.
You'd have to be VERY careful that nothing (boxes, etc.) ever touches the sides, and be sure that there's plenty of sirculation for the fan to dry the condensation and return it to the air.

Now, the drip pan....
You somehow have to return any drip water to the air. Fans would do it. They make little 60 mm computer fans that'd work. They even have 40 mm fans that would work and be smaller.

It all depends where you put it. If it's in a warm area and it's gonna run a lot, there's going to be lots of condensate (water). If it's in a cool area, it'll run very little and need far less air movement to dry the condensed water and return it to your beads.

Yes, you can remove the freezer if you don't want any cooling. The coils that are on the freezer are where heat transfer happens. Inside those coils reside refrigerant.
To remove the coils from the freezer walls, bundle them, and use them as a chiller would work, but aluminum is VERY fragile. The odds of doing that without blowing a hole are about one in a million.

The best way to approach it is to finish it up, make your shelves or whatever, put beads in it, run it and see what happens.
Then you can make the necessary mods to make it work the way you want it to.
that's what I do. :)

The inherent design and particular formation of the freezer body and how it works is what's screwing you over. It's designed to condense and drip on the inside and outside of the freezer body so it keeps water off your food.
The ice that forms on/in the freezer is what cools the food below.
There's a thermostat below in the food section that drives the freezer unit to cool, thus ensuring the cycle.
The freezer section is the evaporator.
The coils on the back of your fridge are the condenser.
The compressor is underneath your fridge near the back.
Don't get "water condensing on the evaporator" confused with the condenser on the back of your fridge. It'll just make you more confused.
The reason they call the thing inside your fridge an evaporator (your freezer) is because that's where liquid refrigerant evaporates (inside those tubes) and gathers heat. It then carries the heat back to the compressor, is compressed and multiplied, then the heat is released in the condenser coil where it turns back to a liquid, and heads back to your freezer through an orifice where it "flashes" back to a saturated vapor and starts gathering heat again.
That's the confusing part, kinda. We think the freezer is "making cold", but it's actually carrying away heat.

So you either keep the freezer, or don't have any cooling.
Add some fans and see what happens.
The pains in the ass may be minimal, and might be easy to fix. Ultimately you might even be able to use the freezer section.
If nothing else, you could always use jar humis (http://www.puff.com/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/147052-project-day-bail-jar-humidor.html) (beware, puff link) in the freezer section. :tu

WOW shilala... you know your stuff, eh?!

[Savor the Stick]

WOW shilala... you know your stuff, eh?!

That's what the man does (used to) for a living.

Scott's da Man!

Thanks for bumping this back up Jonesie! :tu

[mukky]

so are we ever gonna see some pics?

[Jack1000]

so are we ever gonna see some pics?

+1--that red looked cool.

[BigAsh]

I'm on vacation this week but I should have a box from Chasden/Chuck waiting for me when I get back... Also have some touchups to do on the door...."Partagas Red", that's the color:D.... Hoping to post finished project pics real soon:tu

[BigAsh]

Drawers came in...hope to install later today....I'll post some pics afterwards...almost finished....finally!

[BigAsh]

FINISHED PRODUCT HERE....
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?p=935925&posted=1#post935925