Ban on tobacco urged in military

[elderboy02]

What a bunch of crap:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-07-09-smoking_N.htm

Ban on tobacco urged in military

By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Pentagon health experts are urging Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ban the use of tobacco by troops and end its sale on military property, a change that could dramatically alter a culture intertwined with smoking.
Jack Smith, head of the Pentagon's office of clinical and program policy, says he will recommend that Gates adopt proposals by a federal study that cites rising tobacco use and higher costs for the Pentagon and Department of Veterans Affairs as reasons for the ban.

The study by the Institute of Medicine, requested by the VA and Pentagon, calls for a phased-in ban over a period of years, perhaps up to 20. "We'll certainly be taking that recommendation forward," Smith says.

A tobacco ban would confront a military culture, the report says, in which "the image of the battle-weary soldier in fatigues and helmet, fighting for his country, has frequently included his lit cigarette."

Also, the report said, troops worn out by repeated deployments often rely on cigarettes as a "stress reliever." The study found that tobacco use in the military increased after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said the department supports a smoke-free military "and believes it is achievable." She declined to elaborate on any possible ban.

One in three servicemembers use tobacco, the report says, compared with one in five adult Americans. The heaviest smokers are soldiers and Marines, who have done most of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the study says. About 37% of soldiers use tobacco and 36% of Marines. Combat veterans are 50% more likely to use tobacco than troops who haven't seen combat.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

Along with a phased-in ban, the report recommends requiring new officers and enlisted personnel to be tobacco-free, eliminating tobacco use on military installations, ships and aircraft, expanding treatment programs and eliminating the sale of tobacco on military property. "Any tobacco use while in uniform should be prohibited," the study says.

The military complicates attempts to curb tobacco use by subsidizing tobacco products for troops who buy them at base exchanges and commissaries, says Kenneth Kizer, a committee member and architect of California's anti-tobacco program.

Seventy percent of profits from tobacco sales — $88 million in 2005 — pays for recreation and family support programs, the study stays.

Strong leadership could make the military tobacco-free in five to 10 years, Kizer says. President Obama, he says, could set an example for the military by ending his own smoking habit once and for all. Last month, Obama said he is "95% cured" but "there are times when I mess up" and smoke.

[jjirons69]

Wow. Don't think it'll ever fly.

[rizzle]

Wow. Don't think it'll ever fly.

Exactly what I was going to say Jamie.

[BengalMan]

Wow Dan, quick to copy and paste my tweet here, lol. You had it up before I could even load CA. Anyways, I think this is flat out ridiculous.

How many heartfelt responses do we all see from the troops because of cigars that we, along with shops, and manufacturers all send over there. It's just sad that things are now coming to this. You can sign up to defend our country, get shot at and potentially get killed, but you can't have a cigar....

[elderboy02]

Wow Dan, quick to copy and paste my tweet here, lol. You had it up before I could even load CA. Anyways, I think this is flat out ridiculous.

How many heartfelt responses do we all see from the troops because of cigars that we, along with shops, and manufacturers all send over there. It's just sad that things are now coming to this. You can sign up to defend our country, get shot at and potentially get killed, but you can't have a cigar....

Ha! I saw it posted on ar15 before I saw your tweet :fu

[ade06]

I would never have believed that a tobacco state like NC would ban smoking in public places either... This should be interesting to see played out.

[BengalMan]

Ha! I saw it posted on ar15 before I saw your tweet :fu

It's all good. The more we get the word out the better.

[elderboy02]

It's all good. The more we get the word out the better.

Yep. I totally agree with your statement how they can die for us, but no cigars.

Freaking morons.

[shilala]

This may be the most retarded thing I've ever read.
I can't even believe my eyes.

[kydsid]

Last I knew for the safety of the troops the CO's at bases in southern Texas allowed soldiers 18-21 to drink while on base to keep them from going to Mexico to get drunk. The DOD is fine with that but god forbid they expose themselves to deadly nicotine.

[ade06]

I think it's crazy to prevent anyone that is willing to die for our country from using any legal product. Next thing to ban will be all of those sports cars and motorcycles those young military guys are buying. Don't they know those things are dangerous!

[tzaddi]

"Lost productivity"?

http://www.current.org/hi/hi0612tank.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xf-wzJ5j_24/Rnu6on6LCtI/AAAAAAAAAxw/1ttuFB7O6b0/s320/smoking%2Bnz%2Bsoldier.jpg http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/82501927.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=68D0BA230F4DC9747C2C250ADD06A9A0B01E70F2B3269972

Tobacco was once government issue as in GI. It's value as a calmative & appetite suppressant has been known and utilized by soldiers for centuries. As with all things in life the benefits in many cases outweigh the negatives.

[DougBushBC]

Ridiculous. Nanny State FTL...

[shilala]

"Lost productivity"?

Tobacco was once government issue as in GI. It's value as a calmative & appetite suppressant has been known and utilized by soldiers for centuries. As with all things in life the benefits in many cases outweigh the negatives.
I'd think that from a health-conscious standpoint, it'd be highly more advantageous to work on banning being shot at.
I still can't even believe it.
"Boys, drive down that road there and get blown up, but for God's sake, don't smoke. It'll kill ya."

[Col. Kurtz]

I would never have believed that a tobacco state like NC would ban smoking in public places either... This should be interesting to see played out.


Well, the N.C. I grew up in is no more. There are many reasons...... I remember people smoking in church in Wilson, N.C.

[papajohn67]

Next they will be telling us 2nd hand smoke is detrimental to the well-being of the enemy.

[e-man67]

Next they will be telling us 2nd hand smoke is detrimental to the well-being of the enemy.


Yep...I can see that coming...along with replacing real bullets with rubber ones so they don't kill anyone. :mad:

[blooz4u]

That's ridiculous!

[Starscream]

I would never have believed that a tobacco state like NC would ban smoking in public places either... This should be interesting to see played out.

Well, the N.C. I grew up in is no more. There are many reasons...... I remember people smoking in church in Wilson, N.C.

North Carolina is filled with carpetbaggers now. What once was a strong conservative state is now turning more and more liberal...

[Mr B]

I heard that on the radio this morning. What a bunch of CRAP!
Taking rights and freedom away from the very people who are out there fighting for them.

:mad:

[Starscream]

I heard that on the radio this morning. What a bunch of CRAP!
Taking rights and freedom away from the very people who are out there fighting for them.

:mad:

:tpd:

[Col. Kurtz]

North Carolina is filled with carpetbaggers now. What once was a strong conservative state is now turning more and more liberal...

I wasn't going there, but you're 100% correct my friend :tu

[hornitosmonster]

Man...freedoms are slowly creeping away day by day.

[SmokinCozy]

Yep. I totally agree with your statement how they can die for us, but no cigars.

Freaking morons.

I'm with ya. The same way we can go off to war at 18 but can't have a drink til 21. Maybe a military ID should bypass that law. :2

[tobii3]

Alright, fine, ban tobacco in the Military.

While you're at it, ban Alcohol for all members of Congress.

This is fuggin retarded.

[Steelergar]

I remember when they first started this crap when I was in the airforce. It started with smoking areas. Their worried about productivity, I remember 3/4th of my time in the military being spent waiting around for stuff to happen.

[TheTraveler]

I remember when they first started this crap when I was in the airforce. It started with smoking areas. Their worried about productivity, I remember 3/4th of my time in the military being spent waiting around for stuff to happen.

Hurry Up And Wait ... it may be a cliche but it's still the truth! :D

[hotreds]

Big Daddy Govt telling you what to do and not to do. And tomorrow when you get up, it will be worse!

[zitro_joe]

They have been saying this for as long as I have been in. There are a few smoke free bases, but I think that is as far as they will take it...never know for sure, though.

[shilala]

My guess is that Jack Smith and Cynthia Smith are smokers.
They work in the Pentagon.
They aren't allowed to smoke at work.
Tit for tat, ya know? Maybe if Jack and Cynthia were dropped in a trench under heavy gunfire for a few days, their recommendation might come in a little different.
Or maybe a few of the boys in the dirt could have a little "alone time" with them?

[Commander Quan]

I wouldn't be surprised to see an article soon about someone wanting to ban guns in the military. :bh

[ActionAndy]

I love how President Obama has to apologize for his cigarette smoking and act like he's going to be spanked for having a smoke. You're literally supposed to be the alpha male of the country and you're apologizing for using a freedom so that nanny groups won't harass you? Please. Like him or hate him the guy's the President and should behave accordingly.

[kelmac07]

They have been talking about this since befire I came in...over 23 years ago, and the only thing that has changed...

- No more smoking on government buildings
- Dedicated smoking areas outside

[Starscream]

While you're at it, ban Alcohol for all members of Congress.

I might support that bill:D

[themoneycollector]

Alright, fine, ban tobacco in the Military.

While you're at it, ban Alcohol for all members of Congress.

This is fuggin retarded.

Good point

[darkninja67]

Ain't democracy great?
what a load of cow poop

[e-man67]

I think if they pass this the troops should turn to these pentagon health officials pushing this and hand them their rifles and say "you fight this f@#king war, you get shot at!" ...buncha bastards f@#ks. Heaven forbid our boys actually enjoy a smoke while fighting in that 120 degree hell hole of sand....I am sooo sick of all these politicians deciding what's best for people...let the people decide!!!

[Flat4boxer]

I wasn't going there, but you're 100% correct my friend :tu

Makes me sick at times.....I have another name for carpetbagers but I'll leave that out of the discussion. ;)

[Flat4boxer]

I wasn't going there, but you're 100% correct my friend :tu

They have been talking about this since befire I came in...over 23 years ago, and the only thing that has changed...

- No more smoking on government buildings
- Dedicated smoking areas outside

We use to have a platoon office where we'd hold platoon meetings in the barracks. Half of us smoked, the other half didn't. I just remember the "other half" turning green most of the time. :r :ss

[ZenSilk]

Then fight your own war, "pentagon health officials".

[Sauer Grapes]

Is a carpet bagger a new yorker? I'm neither a southerner or a yankee, but from what I understand you folks in NC have had A LOT of yankees moving down to your state.

[BC-Axeman]

Their reasoning is that it costs the Fed. Gov. a lot of money to treat smoking related illness.

By that reasoning they should ban ALL federal employees from using tobacco products. Easier to deny payment for tobacco related illness.

Oh, I forgot. Reasoning? Hahahahaha!

[SmokeyJoe]

My wife and I have discussed selling our house and moving to Costa Rica... seriously.

This kind of stuff just rips the heart out of me - not just the smoking, but the incremental loss of freedoms and strangling grip of government wrapping firmly around the throats of American citizens. :(

[Flat4boxer]

My wife and I have discussed selling our house and moving to Costa Rica... seriously.

This kind of stuff just rips the heart out of me - not just the smoking, but the incremental loss of freedoms and strangling grip of government wrapping firmly around the throats of American citizens. :(

I hear ya Joe :tu It's getting pathetic.

[Aldebaran]

I see a lot of bashing on liberals in this thread but I'd like to point out a lot of the recent legislature has been passed with tons of conservative, republcan, and even some centrist support.

[Dunkel]

This is typical governmental head up the rectum thinking. The men and women who fight for our freedoms are going to be denied a freedom as basic as enjoying a tobacco product? Welcome to Nazi Germany 2.0

[macms]

If this comes to pass I will be a criminal. :usa

(Proud member of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy.) :ss

[kelmac07]

If this comes to pass I will be a criminal. :usa

(Proud member of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy.) :ss

Fred the "Outlaw"!!!

[Flat4boxer]

I see a lot of bashing on liberals in this thread but I'd like to point out a lot of the recent legislature has been passed with tons of conservative, republcan, and even some centrist support.


You can't have "tons" of "conservative, republican and even some centrist support" from a democratically controlled house and senate.

The numbers just don't support "tons". You might get away with "one or two jumping ship" but not "tons". :tu

[SmokeyJoe]

I see a lot of bashing on liberals in this thread but I'd like to point out a lot of the recent legislature has been passed with tons of conservative, republcan, and even some centrist support.

:confused:

[mikeyj23]

:confused:

:tpd:

[tobii3]

Their reasoning is that it costs the Fed. Gov. a lot of money to treat smoking related illness.

Absolutely.

And obesity is an ""epidemic"" -

•63% of Americans are overweight with a BMI in excess of 25.0
•31% are obese with a BMI in excess of 30.0
•Childhood obesity has more than tripled in the past two decades
•Obesity is responsible for 300,000 deaths every year.

Ever notice that 90 people got the swine flu and EVERYBODY was wearing masks???

Talk about retarded.

[hornitosmonster]

I see a lot of bashing on liberals in this thread but I'd like to point out a lot of the recent legislature has been passed with tons of conservative, republcan, and even some centrist support.

Not bashing liberals...bashing the slow erosion of our rights. The USA was turning into a Nanny state long before Obama...

I do not think any of us can say that this is the same USA of our childhood...

[Aldebaran]

You can't have "tons" of "conservative, republican and even some centrist support" from a democratically controlled house and senate.

The numbers just don't support "tons". You might get away with "one or two jumping ship" but not "tons". :tu

Tons in this instance is not indicative of majority of the entire political spectrum but rather enough to oppose an argument that it is always "liberals" that are blocking or impeding smoking freedoms.

I mean on the S-CHIP bill one quarters of republicans voted for and the other three quarters werent always against the principle of the bill but rather the extremity of it. This isnt the case for the Senate though in that particular vote.

The FDA being able to regulate tobacco was passed 79 for 17 against. If we were to assume that the then 59 democrats voted for it then , a majority of the Republican Senate was still in favor of it.

For example Utah a majoirty republican state passes anti-smoking law, same with my state Arizona.

I'm not liberal at all, but it just irks me when I see pointless namecalling, pigeonholing and general ignorance of a subject. If you really want to smoke in peace you are going to have to know your enemy and not just assume who they are.

In fact I would say recent lobbying has more of an impact on anti-tobacco law than liberals.

edit

I wrote this a bit hastily, so sorry for any incoherence.

[Starscream]

Is a carpet bagger a new yorker? I'm neither a southerner or a yankee, but from what I understand you folks in NC have had A LOT of yankees moving down to your state.

New Yorkers or Yankees in general.





I didn't mean to turn this political, but most true Southerners are conservative in their politics, while most Yankees are Liberal in their politics. Not stereotyping anyone or trying to start a political debate. But most country folk are pro-gun, pro-smoking, while many yankees (big city ones) are anti-gun, anti-smoking.

Big city people vs. country people. This is the true TWO AMERICAS.

[ActionAndy]

New Yorkers or Yankees in general.





I didn't mean to turn this political, but most true Southerners are conservative in their politics, while most Yankees are Liberal in their politics. Not stereotyping anyone or trying to start a political debate. But most country folk are pro-gun, pro-smoking, while many yankees (big city ones) are anti-gun, anti-smoking.

Big city people vs. country people. This is the true TWO AMERICAS.

And there's a lot of people living in New York who say "how'd I get surrounded by fools?" on a day to day basis.

;)

[Jimbo14]

I think it's crazy to prevent anyone that is willing to die for our country from using any legal product. Next thing to ban will be all of those sports cars and motorcycles those young military guys are buying. Don't they know those things are dangerous!

Good point. Goverments are treating adults like children. We know the risks and are willing to take them.

So the idea is a soilder after spending a week on the front line, returning to the green zone cant light up a cigar to relaxing and reflect on being ALIVE!

What a joke.

[Steelergar]

What would Churchill say about this?

[troutbreath]

I'd think that from a health-conscious standpoint, it'd be highly more advantageous to work on banning being shot at.I still can't even believe it.
"Boys, drive down that road there and get blown up, but for God's sake, don't smoke. It'll kill ya."



Bingo!! Unless they are planning on converting the military into an accounting agency, this is ridiculous. Personally, I'm all for giving our fighting men and women anything they need to be comfortable while they defend our interests.

God bless you all.

[BC-Axeman]

Bingo!! Unless they are planning on converting the military into an accounting agency, this is ridiculous. Personally, I'm all for giving our fighting men and women anything they need to be comfortable while they defend our interests.

God bless you all.
:tpd:+1

[BC-Axeman]

Very good interactive election result map. You can change parameters and base data.
Try this. It is enlightening.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/explorer.html

[Starscream]

Very good interactive election result map. You can change parameters and base data.
Try this. It is enlightening.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/explorer.html

More blue in 2008 than the 2004 election.

[ucla695]

Ridiculous!

[BC-Axeman]

More blue in 2008 than the 2004 election.
Obviously.
If you zoom the controls to rich vs poor, densely populated vs less populated, etc, you get interesting patterns.

[icantbejon]

Never happen, not in a million years

[Ranger_B]

I saw this yesterday and couldnt believe it. So let me get this straight, I can go fight for the freedom this country enjoys (which is bad for my health at times). But if one of these freedoms could possibly be linked to a heath issue and therefore somehow be loosely tied to raising health costs I am now going to have that freedom taken back. Horse dung. I hope this doesnt fly. Tell me I can drop bombs, make me give out candy and hand shakes but for Gods sake let me finish the day with a smoke and my guys.

[Starscream]

Obviously.


Considering the outcome of the election, I guess it would be quite obvious.;)
I wasn't thinking when I made that last post.:D

[ScottieM]

I don't think they have the Balls to do this. I can see them banning the sale of all Tobacco products on post but, Outlawing something thats legal? Not gonna happen.

[taltos]

My wife and I have discussed selling our house and moving to Costa Rica... seriously.

This kind of stuff just rips the heart out of me - not just the smoking, but the incremental loss of freedoms and strangling grip of government wrapping firmly around the throats of American citizens. :(My wife and I are looking at liquidating all of our assets and moving to Clifton Ireland. Don't know if we can do it but the loss of freedom in this country is putrid.

[Whee]

Sorta good news...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_military_smoking_9

[Java]

We have to stop the partisanship. Bickering that one side is good and the other is bad... It is a tactic our government uses to deflect real issues. While we argue back and forth about me being right and you being wrong, they pass such and such bills right under our noses.

What is important is that the government should have limited power. It should serve to protect us from foreign and domestic threat. Anything beyond this sort of thing is over stepping it's powers.

Now the reason this is legitimate is because we the taxpayers are flipping the bill for the medical costs for soldiers in the military. This is the reasoning behind this and how they are making a legitimate argument.

I am fascinated by our country's plight. How bloated our government is. How it enjoys trivializing our freedoms, and especially how we passively watch it happen. Personally, I am not really sure what can be done about it short of an upheavel of epic proportion. Guess time will tell.

[BC-Axeman]

Now the reason this is legitimate is because we the taxpayers are flipping the bill for the medical costs for soldiers in the military. This is the reasoning behind this and how they are making a legitimate argument.

And also everyone else in or retired from the government. An incomplete argument is not legitimate in my book.
Since WE pay, let US decide. I buy cigars for the troops. Maybe that would become a federal offense.:ss

[Java]

And also everyone else in or retired from the government. An incomplete argument is not legitimate in my book.
Noted. I think it goes without saying that this entire idea is full of issues.

[GKitty]

Now the reason this is legitimate is because we the taxpayers are flipping the bill for the medical costs for soldiers in the military. This is the reasoning behind this and how they are making a legitimate argument.

I wasn't going to say anything, but now I feel compelled to share.

Yes, we the taxpayers are footing the bill for military medical costs. It's that knowledge that makes it a little easier to see that chunk leave my paycheck every week. I have family and friends who have sacrificed for this country and I feel like it's the least I can do.

I think I'll end my rant there before I get myself too worked up.

[Starscream]

We have to stop the partisanship. Bickering that one side is good and the other is bad... It is a tactic our government uses to deflect real issues. While we argue back and forth about me being right and you being wrong, they pass such and such bills right under our noses.

What is important is that the government should have limited power. It should serve to protect us from foreign and domestic threat. Anything beyond this sort of thing is over stepping it's powers.

Partisanship is the best thing that can happen in our government. Our founding fathers created a two party system. This is part of the checks and balances in our gov't, and it used to help limit govt's power. Constant bickering between parties may be annoying and raise our blood pressure, but it keeps Congress from pushing through every bill that comes before them. But now we all want bipatisanship. Everytime we see bipartisanship, the gov't merely gets bigger and bigger.

Sorry for the political rant, but I don't think I'm breaking the rules here. I didn't pick sides.

[alley00p]

I just heard Mark Davis, guest-hosting on the Rush Limbaugh show, announce that the Pentagon was NOT going to enforce any type of tobacco ban on the Military. :wo

Apparently, someone in the Pentagon has some common sense - probably someone who has been a ground-pounder during his career. At least there is some good news this week, regarding our guys who are over there! :tu


:dance:

[Starscream]

I just heard Mark Davis, guest-hosting on the Rush Limbaugh show, announce that the Pentagon was NOT going to enforce any type of tobacco ban on the Military. :wo

Apparently, someone in the Pentagon has some common sense - probably someone who has been a ground-pounder during his career. At least there is some good news this week, regarding our guys who are over there! :tu


:dance:

:wo:wo

[troutbreath]

My understanding is that they will not enforce a ban in areas where fighting is taking place. I bet they still push for a ban stateside.

[Java]

Partisanship is the best thing that can happen in our government.
Its really only applicable when at least one side has our best interests at heart. I can't say I have seen that from either major party in my lifetime.

[MarkMc]

The person with the common sense was Secretary of Defense Gates. He said no to this idea because smoking was a stress relief he wasn't going to take away from the troops. He is considering the incremental ban over time though. Here's the story:

The Pentagon said today that it will not ban the use of tobacco in the military, the Associated Press reports.

The announcement comes after a study commissioned by the Pentagon and the Department of Veteran Affairs recommended terminating the use and sale of tobacco products on military property. The study also recommended the military ensure enlistees are smoke-free.

Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said Wednesday that Defense Secretary Robert Gates doesn't want to add to the stress levels of troops fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by taking away tobacco products. He also said that Gates plans on pursuing the goal of a smoke-free military, according to the AP.

[punch54]

good luck,cant see this happing

[tobii3]

you gotta find the irony in all of this.

what was it, 15-20 years ago when Andrew Dice Clay made the comment about San Francisco??

Fast Forward to today.....

Clinton passed the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Policy allowing Gays in the Military....Now they want to ban smoking cigarettes....

Diceman said it best....""You can smoke the baloney pony but you can't smoke a f*cking Marlboro??? Are you f*cking kidding me???""

[kelmac07]

Leave it to Tobii to paraphrase the Diceman!!!

[tobii3]

When you gotta control LGOP's**, you gotta be able to shock 'em at any given time!!!







** Little Groups Of Paratroopers