Non Lethal Self Protection Advice

[awsmith4]

Recently my inlaws were having issues with a deranged neighbor coming on to their property at night and vandalizing random things as well as petty theft. After numerous incidents they installed a camera system. Well this oh so bright individual tried to steal one of the cameras and even pointed it at his face while pulling it off the wall of the garage. He was arrested the next morning and is still sitting in jail because no one will bail him out...

Well after the arrest they learned more about this individual and he has quite a rap sheet, mostly assault. Most of those assaults were on former neighbors (he moves around a lot). Turns out he has some sort of mental disorder and is not a likely person to learn his lesson while in prison. So if he were released there is chance he would retaliate.

They own guns but my mother in law isn't sure she wants to have to carry in here own yard but feels she would carry a taser or something else that is non lethal and wants something for when she is home alone. She says she is not sure she could bring herself to shoot and kill.

So my question is what would be the asylum's advise for non lethal protection?

[TanithT]

There isn't a really good non lethal deterrent that she can safely use from a distance, and I wouldn't recommend allowing this POS to get that close.

Shooting him in the leg or the crotch isn't likely to kill him, but it should make him stop doing whatever he's doing and maybe think twice before bothering ladies who are home alone.

[awsmith4]

There isn't a really good non lethal deterrent that she can safely use from a distance, and I wouldn't recommend allowing this POS to get that close.

Shooting him in the leg or the crotch isn't likely to kill him, but it should make him stop doing whatever he's doing and maybe think twice before bothering ladies who are home alone.

I agree but she was insistent I find her info on alternatives

[bonjing]

I use and have the gf carry Fox lab 5.3 for pepper spray. I had a tazer before but felt it was just a pain in the butt, ended up being more of a dust collector so i ended up[ selling it. And remember you only get one shot with the tazer then it becomes a close contact type of thing.

I use fox 5.3 because it seems to be the hottest at 5.3 mill shu, while others i have seen only go up to 2.5mil or even 3mil.

edit to add:


when i purchase pepper spray, i only get stream type sprays

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=SD112

[WyoBob]

http://www.udap.com/product.htm

Has a range of around 30 ft.

WyoBob

[bonjing]

forgot to add, since he has a mental disorder and has had scuffles in the past, he may have gotten used to getting OC'd.


just something to keep in mind

[heavyd]

Pepper spray works on most people, but not all. Look into getting a restraining order on the guy. Sure, it's just a piece of paper and it can't stop a determined psycho, but at least the cops can arrest him on the spot for violating it (assuming Georgia law is similar to California). Best wishes to your family members, Albert... that's a bad situation :(

[bonjing]

Sorry to keep posting, but stuff works slowly in my head.

Like heavyd said, OC is not an end all but may help get the person out of the situation. If anyone has been OC'd majority will tell you they can still fight through it although uncomfortably and possibly not as effective.

[RGD.]

How about a steel whip baton - if they are legal in your state. It does not take a whole lot of arm strength to put a serious hurting on someone.

Example Here (http://www.swordsswords.com/browseproducts/Collapsible-Spring-Whip-Baton.html)


Ron

[Silound]

Pepper spray works on most people, but not all. Look into getting a restraining order on the guy. Sure, it's just a piece of paper and it can't stop a determined psycho, but at least the cops can arrest him on the spot for violating it (assuming Georgia law is similar to California). Best wishes to your family members, Albert... that's a bad situation :(

Dunno about Georgia law, but Louisiana law gives a lot of leeway to use lethal force if a restraining order is violated intentionally.

For the average person, shooting someone anywhere but center of mass is simply not an option. Despite hours and hours of training, and no matter how good a shot you might be, you simply cannot predict the human reaction to the presence of an immediate threat. I heard of a rookie cop that got into a shootout, blasted over 40 rounds into the side of a car and the house behind it and completely missed the guy sitting in the driver's seat from less than 20 feet. Adrenaline dumps will cause all that training and accuracy to go to complete waste if you've never experienced one before.



The best thing is to simply be smart. Carry your non-lethal goodies, but also observe common safety tips. Don't go out at night if it's unnecessary, always travel in pairs when coming or going (or be on the phone with someone), watch each others' backs when you are out. If he crosses into your property, go back inside immediately and call the police. Avoid him if you see him in public, and check with a lawyer or the city prosecutor/DA to see if there's a legal way to force him to move after repeated violations and a restraining order.

[Old Sailor]

If he gets too close, tell her a pair of visegrips to the jewels will slow him down as long as they are tight.

[shilala]

I got nothin for ya Albert, but if he stays in jail long enough, it's unlikely that he'll have a home to move back to, and he'll likely relocate, being that's what he's done in the past.
Make sure your mil has whatever she needs, but having to carry a weapon in your own yard is no way to live. :(

[Sailchaser]

self awareness whit ones one space is the best protection and your right there are a lot of nuts out there hope it all works out

[replicant_argent]

I think a short visit with an attorney familiar with Georgias laws regarding Use of Force, Castle Doctrine (if it even applies), and lethal and non-lethal alternatives and consequences may very well be whatever the hour or two might cost you, Albert.


Especially with what your in-laws might face on either side of that unstable equation.

[bigloo]

Depending on his mental illness, I would not take this lightly and would

1) Stay in touch with authorities to make sure you know when he is released.
2) As already mentioned here, pepper sprays may not work well for several reason, one being mental rage.
3) A tazor will always work, no way around this, out bodies are all the same.
4) Check the law, it lethal force is allowed, use it. He may have multiple assaults but you do not want to be the family where he ratchets things up! I hate guns but stuff like this... well there are exceptions to everything and this is one of them.

Batons, whips, sticks, etc... if your folks are not physically able, especially your mom, they are probably not the best solution. I would advise your parents if he is released not to be alone... go everywhere together, garden together, etc.

Good luck man, this is really terrible... a home is supposed to be your safe place.

[rrplasencia]

how about a bean bag round for a shotgun? it'll stop without killing him.

http://www.keepshooting.com/ammunition/speciality/bean-bag-round-shotgun.htm

or how about a stun baton? 800,000 volts!!
http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/stun-baton.htm

or you could go old fashioned with some kind of mean dog or gator

[sodomanaz]

bear traps

[replicant_argent]

another note, and not a pleasant one to think about...



If your MiL is close enough for a baton/contact stun gun/etc.... it is far too close. Depending on physical abilities of the aggressor and the victim, within 21 feet is the danger zone, and that is less than you think. Use the police and the justice system for every possible transgression to build a case, even the little stuff, it could help them in the future as being a "reluctant participant" should any violence take place. De-escalation of any possible situation would be the proper action, even if it hampers your families quality of life for a short time, because the alternatives, if this neighbor is mentally unstable, are not acceptable.

[Genetic Defect]

Tranquilizer Gun

[taltos]

The problem with the non lethal options are that they are generally single shot and/or require you to get too close to their intended target. This person is a rabid animal and there is only one solution; deadly force. If your MIL would feel better about it, have her get a 28 ga shotgun and use that instead of the 12 ga. This will stop the target and would be considered to be more survivable. A well trained personal protection dog would be another option. German shepards or Bouviers are the more stable breeds for this purpose.

[kaelaria]

Big Dog.

[SmokeyNL]

How about 12 gauge bean bag loads or just good old 12 ga rock salt loads?

[Flat4boxer]

The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. When he gets out, he will be back in your MILs yard and at some point will assault someone again.

If your MIL is like mine, a bit older and somewhat feeble, whatever less than lethal device she has may be taken from her and used against her.

There have been alot of good suggestions thus far and I think a good sized "sic balls" type dog is probably your best bet at this point.

Beyond that she will need a gun, the proper training on how to use it and the mental attitude to use it with deadly intention should it come to that. If she cannot bring herself to do that a gun is not an option at all because as I stated above, it may be taken from her and used against her.

I hate that you even have to come to others seeking this advise but it is the world we live in. Always remember, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

[BillyCigars]

"...Shooting him in the leg or the crotch isn't likely to kill him".

Actually, that's exactly where the femoral artery is located. Damage the femoral artery and he'll be a goner in minutes.

To the OP, I would be sure that those surveillance cameras were re-installed (assuming they haven't already since the one was ripped down), get a restraining order (violating this will demonstrate a patter of behavior and leave a paper trail as to your in-laws trying legal means (on paper) to defend themselves), and sign her/them up for a gun safety course at the local gun range. This will give her familiarity when handling a weapon and confidence from practice. Additionally, be sure she keeps the certificate of completion in case she ever needs to resort to deadly force and is asked to appear in court.

[elderboy02]

Handgun. Double Tap to center of mass. I know she doesn't want lethal force, but if the guy is mentally crazy AND has a history of assault, I would not bet my life on Tazers, pepper spray, dogs, clubs, etc. They probably won't work. :2 Your mileage may vary.

Good luck. I hope everything turns out okay and this piece of scum doesn't bother her. :tu

[Mugen910]

how about a bean bag round for a shotgun? it'll stop without killing him.

http://www.keepshooting.com/ammunition/speciality/bean-bag-round-shotgun.htm

or how about a stun baton? 800,000 volts!!
http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/stun-baton.htm

or you could go old fashioned with some kind of mean dog or gator

I say get a dog...you get a new family friend and theif scarer awayer..

[longknocker]

I say get a dog...you get a new family friend and theif scarer awayer..
Big, Mean Dog would be my best advice. Good Luck!

[rrplasencia]

evil sharks with frikin lasers attached to their heads

[taltos]

One other great non lethal self protection device is a tall fence with a key locked gate. If he climbs the fence he is fair game to be taken out by any means necessary, lethal or non lethal. Check local laws, she very well could have more legal problems(civil) turning a dog on him than killing him in self defense.:tu

[SchizoFilly]

One other great non lethal self protection device is a tall fence with a key locked gate. If he climbs the fence he is fair game to be taken out by any means necessary, lethal or non lethal. Check local laws, she very well could have more legal problems(civil) turning a dog on him than killing him in self defense.:tu

Sadly enough this is probably more correct. Although if he falls off the fence trying to climb over it there are some lawyers who will get your in-laws money for the guy. Dogs can be poisoned or get you into trouble if they bite someone, even an intruder.

I understand the MIL not wanting to use lethal force, but it is the only guarantee that this guy will stop. There has already been a pattern of violence and the in-laws just knowing of this pattern could be enough to make the case for them feeling a threat of eminent physical harm with the possibility of death, because you never know when good ol' crazy turns into murderous rage. Two rounds through the chest. Hollow points would be my recommendation.

[Martin]

Big Dog.

X2

[Martin]

Last year a local Brother saw the whacko neighbour talking to his 6 year old daughter outside his home, he went outside asked the kid to go inside told the guy to have a nice day, turned to go inside himself and was stabbed in the back twice with a 8" butcher knife. He wrestled the knife off the guy called the cops. The whacko ran home & committed suicide, had a history of illness, was off his meds, you know the story.

You just can't tell what people with a mental illness will fixate on, better to be safe than sorry. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. IMHO

[ade06]

Big Dog.

:tpd:

[cbsmokin]

This is made by an extremely reputable company.

http://www.pepperblaster.com/

They carry them at adventure outdoors which is not too far from where you live.

http://www.advout.com/

[md4958]

Albert, you've received a lot of good advice here. What I would ask your MIL is who would she rather have dead, the psycho, or herself? That question typically puts things into perspective.

I'm assuming the wacko is renting? Any possibility of talking to his landlord about terminating his lease?

Living in fear is no way to live. Good luck with your family's decision my friend.

[BlackDog]

Big well trained protection dog, motion detector lights, wall between the properties.

Personally I like shotguns with buckshot, but if your MIL doesn't, make it hard for the guy to even get close to her.

Or his house could accidentally burn down while he's in jail. ;)

[cbsmokin]

One more thing that is good knowledge for everyone here not just Albert is if you are in a situation like this go visit your local police station. Tell them you are scared. They will make their presence known for you, especially if you come back a few times with goodies. Sandwiches, wings, whatever can go a long way.

Also make sure all of your neighbors are aware of what happened. They will look out their windows more often. I also guarantee one of her neighbors will end a situation permanently if it escalates.

[ade06]

[QUOTE=md4958;458477] I'm assuming the wacko is renting? Any possibility of talking to his landlord about terminating his lease?QUOTE]


Good call, rental leases generally contain a provision which prevent tenants from distrubing their neighbors. A violation of such provision would be cause for breaching the lease. Also, since he is currently in jail, he probably isn't paying his rent. If he is renting, make sure that your MIL informs the landlord in writing of their tenants actions and reminds them that they she will hold them liable for their tenants actions (since they have prior knowledge of their tenant's actions and mental condition).

Either way, I would still get a big dog (and keep a loaded shotgun handy).

Best of luck!

[Hippi3Slay3r]

If the guys got the crazys you might wanna look into less lethal vs non. If hes made up his mind hes comeing for you non lethals will more then likely piss him off evan more, Where as a nicely placed 12ga stingball or beanbag round will put him on his a$$. :2

[md4958]

The beanbag rounds and shotguns seem like excellent suggestions, but can any of you really picture your mother or mother-in-law carrying around a shotgun with them while gardening?

[kydsid]

OP lemme chime in from my perspective based on 8 years in law enforcement.

1) Get a restraining order immediately.

2) Convince you MIL to carry in her yard. Open carry if permitted by law is best as this is a detterent even for a person such as your neighbor.

3) You NEVER shoot to wound. You NEVER shoot to kill. You shoot to stop. This is an important difference here. Even if your shots to stop are two shots to center mass, which they always should be. Premeditated murder can still be commited even if it is an intruder if you shoot to kill, unless you live in one of the very few states with strong Castle Doctrine. Even then in a civil affair saying you shot to kill will likely loose the case and considering the few challenges to Castle Doctrine do you want to take that chance with felony charges should the DA choose to file? And you really need to know the laws where you live; in some states merely pulling a firearm is legally the same as shooting someone as it is all considered use of deadly force.

4) Less than lethal forces take training and more often than not require backup to be effective in their use and implementation. The type of less than lethal that really doesn't is a taser, but do you want this person to be within arm's reach of your MIL?

5) In an ideal world the courts could fix this douche with a shock collar that jolts his family jewels every time he crosses into your MILs property. :D Oh well

[gettysburgfreak]

Id shoot the fuker or get him on the ground with some pepper spray and break his knee caps with a baseball bat.

[Hippi3Slay3r]

The beanbag rounds and shotguns seem like excellent suggestions, but can any of you really picture your mother or mother-in-law carrying around a shotgun with them while gardening?

Beanbag rounds for this? http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

[kydsid]

Id shoot the fuker or get him on the ground with some pepper spray and break his knee caps with a baseball bat.

And be convicted of assault with a deadly weapon? Once someone is no longer a threat continuing to assualt the individual is a crime. Just sayin.

Not gonna stay in BP for long with that idea. ;)

[BlackDog]

One more thing that is good knowledge for everyone here not just Albert is if you are in a situation like this go visit your local police station. Tell them you are scared. They will make their presence known for you...
This is good advice. We had a situation a year or so ago where we had reason to be concerned about my son's birth father. We got a restraining order on him and let the local police know about the situation. They cruised our street rather regularly until he was incarcerated in the county mental health lock up.

[md4958]

Beanbag rounds for this? http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

OH SNAP!! I didnt know they made them for handguns!! :tu :tu

[ahc4353]

Well if she doesn't want the kinda thing I would use then she should at least have one of these.


http://www.defendingwomen.com/forum/media/1/20080618-Guardian%20Angel%20with%20hand.jpg

(Not involved with this company in any way)

[loki]

.357 mag. screw non-lethal

[heavyd]

bear traps

:r Now that's the best idea yet! :r

[tedrodgerscpa]

...better to be safe than sorry. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. IMHO

Interesting quote. Will go into the mental rolodex for later use.


Good luck, Albert... let us know how things turn out.

[kaisersozei]

I concur with the dog suggestion.

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned, but most of the professional home alarm systems have "panic buttons" that can be activated in emergencies, if things get really out of hand. Some of them even have direct in-home audio monitoring which links to a dispatch center so that the alarm company can silently listen in and send whatever help (fire, ambulance, police) is needed at the time.

[ahc4353]

Please help me understand the dog option. Unless it's a trained attack dog I wouldn't want to count on a dog.

Don't get me wrong I love dogs and have two.

[Savor the Stick]

I would go for a nice 8 shot pump shot gun using the bean bags in the shells; less then lethal(good knock down power) and still have the option of replacing the last 2 shells with something more lethal.

It is good to remember that what will work on a normal person, might not have any effect on someone with mental disorders.

I will keep your family in prayer.

[elderboy02]

Please help me understand the dog option. Unless it's a trained attack dog I wouldn't want to count on a dog.

Don't get me wrong I love dogs and have two.

+1. Dogs generally won't bite on a consistent basis unless trained to do so.

[Savor the Stick]

To add something else:
A gun is just a tool...the great equalizer in the hands of a 98 lb grandmother, trained and willing, able to use it it equals things out with a 240lb 6'.5" foot aggressor.
A gun equals the playing field.
This is the world we live in.

[68TriShield]

I agree but she was insistent I find her info on alternatives

Albert,the alternative is her being hurt or worse.

Non lethal means will probably only piss the loonytoon off more.
When and if he gets out,she needs to be packing heat and not a 22cal.

:2

[awsmith4]

Thank you guys for the advice!

First, the cameras are back in operation and she has filed the restraining order, the police and even the magistrate have been very supportive so far so those protections are in place.

A dog is an option but this guy would be the kind to figure out a way to poison it before making an attack, though he is disturbed and obviously an idiot, his acts seem to be somewhat thought out.

My FIL has shotguns and at least one handgun (a .38 and he isn't afraid to use them) but I think she is scared of them. After talking to my wife, I think if we found her a compact or subcompact automatic it and sent her to some training she would feel much more comfortable. I am also afraid of her in a close quarters attack with a tazer

He actually lives there with his girlfriend and they own the house so no chance of a landlord but if he stays in jail long enough maybe it will foreclose. She also told my MIL and police he is not welcome back but who knows how she'll act if comes begging back. Since they have come forward many other neighbors have been able to possibly link him to thefts and 2 B&Es, one where he lost his shoe. If the judge allows a search warrant he may be looking at much more serious charges.

She is out today to retain a lawyer to define her rights so I will keep you posted

[awsmith4]

Albert,the alternative is her being hurt or worse.

Non lethal means will probably only piss the loonytoon off more.
When and if he gets out,she needs to be packing heat and not a 22cal.

:2

Any thoughts on the Glock 36, seems slim enough and a .45

[ade06]

Albert,the alternative is her being hurt or worse.

Non lethal means will probably only piss the loonytoon off more.
When and if he gets out,she needs to be packing heat and not a 22cal.

:2

Yeah, I unfortunately had a childhood friend go loony (bipolar disease and refuses to take his meds) and he flipped out on a female cop while naked. She ended up pepper spraying him and then shoot him 6 times. I wasn't there and there were no witnesses, but the police report stated that he was still fighting with the officer until he went unconscious. He survived and I've since seen him and talked with him around the old neighborhood, but he is certified crazy. His parents ended up moving from the city out of fear of their own son, because he turned on them a few times (once while they were sleeping).

If this guy is certified crazy, the non-lethal option, may not be the best option for your MIL.

[ahc4353]

And now she has to spend money to defend her rights. It's a sad world. :sad

[loki]

Any thoughts on the Glock 36, seems slim enough and a .45

good gun, reliable, will go bang every time you pull the trigger, and you can swap in smaller cal barrels for cheaper practice.

[68TriShield]

Any thoughts on the Glock 36, seems slim enough and a .45

Rock Solid Albert,that goes for most all Glocks.

[taltos]

Prefer a Springfield Armory in 45 with a laser sight but that might be too much recoil for a second shot. She needs to find something she is comfortable shooting and can get a second and third shot on target. I hope that things work out ok.:tu

[elderboy02]

Rock Solid Albert,that goes for most all Glocks.

:tpd: All Glocks are great :dance:

Where is the gun smiley?

[Genetic Defect]

I tend to avoid glock, go with Sprinfield Armory, Kimber, HK or Sig Sauer :)

[white_s2k]

I tend to avoid glock, go with Sprinfield Armory, Kimber, HK or Sig Sauer :)

:tpd:

[awsmith4]

And now she has to spend money to defend her rights. It's a sad world. :sad

I agree Al, hell they have already had to buy cameras after living there for almost 40 years, replace all the stuff he broke, he even stole the hubcaps off their '94 Toyota Camry, the first damage to that car ever (15 years and hardly a scratch). They have had to replace flowers and shrubs that were torn up by dingleberry, all these things prompted the cameras because without proof the police could not do anything.

[darkninja67]

Get her to carry then use the Chuck Taylor rules: 2 in the chest 1 in the head.

[WyoBob]

A handgun would be my choice but possibly not a good choice for your MIL. Most women have trouble racking the slide on a semi-auto and a Glock 36 (45 ACP) might be a bit much in the recoil department for her due to it's light weight. A revolver is simpler for newcomer's to start with but the trigger pull on some D.A. revolver's is pretty heavy. My wife can shoot my little Kahr CW9 (9mm double action, very concealable semi-auto) but has trouble with the double action trigger on my Ruger SP101 (.357/.38 Special). She can't come close to racking the slide on the Kahr, though. If your MIL gets interested in a handgun, I'd recommend a 9mm. The S&W M&P semi-auto 9mm is a pretty soft shooter and has adjustable grip inserts to accommodate different hands of different sizes. 9mm defensive loads have come a long way and pretty much close the gap between handgun calibers, IMO. A miss with a 45 isn't as good as a few hits with a 9mm (Speer 124 gr Gold Dots, for instance.)

Shooting any handgun well requires a commitment to learn the manual of arms and to practice on a regular basis. As has been pointed out, even police officer's with training have trouble hitting accurately when the pressure is on. It would be great if you could get her interested in shooting but, even if this happens, she still has a lot to overcome if she's worried about shooting someone.

I like the idea of a well trained dog. For in the house, a 20 gauge shotgun would probably be better if she will not commit to handgun training but she would still need to train with the shotgun. Having a shotgun outside while gardening would be a problem, IMO. She might want to give up outside activities until things settle down.

I sure hope everything works out. No one should have these kinds of worries in their own home.

WyoBob

[darkninja67]

I tend to avoid glock, go with Sprinfield Armory, Kimber, HK or Sig Sauer :)

Why do you avoid Glock?

[rrplasencia]

She is out today to retain a lawyer to define her rights so I will keep you posted

if you need a lawyer just let me know, i have family in ATL that are lawyers. might be able to get you someone cheap or free. just shoot me an email if you need names.

[gettysburgfreak]

And be convicted of assault with a deadly weapon? Once someone is no longer a threat continuing to assualt the individual is a crime. Just sayin.

Not gonna stay in BP for long with that idea. ;)



Ha I gotta get the job first, and its my Italian heritage coming out. I would never do that of course ;)

[replicant_argent]

Why do you avoid Glock?

Perry dislikes weapons that are extremely reliable, go bang every time, and are ugly.



He also has "issues" with tupperware.....He was force to go to too many parties as a child, and those freezie pop things never worked out for him.

[Diesel Kinevel]

Take her to the gun store. Give her every Glock under the counter and which ever one fits best get it. There will be one that fits in her hand like it was made for her. Mine happen to be the 17/19. Then have her train with it. Glocks are the most user friendly pistols out there. No decocker, no safety just bang and that is what you need. when the chips are down and you are fighting for your life you dont need an extra variable to worry about (ie external safety.)

-Zach

[Wolfgang]

24" telescoping billy club. easily snap an arm with one wack

[Genetic Defect]

Perry dislikes weapons that are extremely reliable, go bang every time, and are ugly.



He also has "issues" with tupperware.....He was force to go to too many parties as a child, and those freezie pop things never worked out for him.

*shivers*

[pakrat]

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned, but most of the professional home alarm systems have "panic buttons" that can be activated in emergencies, if things get really out of hand. Some of them even have direct in-home audio monitoring which links to a dispatch center so that the alarm company can silently listen in and send whatever help (fire, ambulance, police) is needed at the time.


This actually sounds like a pretty good idea. With a remote alarm loud enough to wake the dead and bring out the neighbors, unless he's really off the deep end, he would probably turn tail and run. If not, then she could resort to the lethal force as a back-up plan. :2

[awsmith4]

This actually sounds like a pretty good idea. With a remote alarm loud enough to wake the dead and bring out the neighbors, unless he's really off the deep end, he would probably turn tail and run. If not, then she could resort to the lethal force as a back-up plan. :2

They have panic buttons and glass breaks and the works, the issue is that she more fears being in the yard which she spends 90% of her day working on, it is her pride and joy

[pakrat]

I was thinking of something with a remote that she could keep with her in the yard and set off if he sets foot on her property. A good dog would alert her to his presence so she could tend her yard and not constantly keep looking over shoulder.

[Genetic Defect]

what about an electric fence with barbed wire on the top?

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[awsmith4]

I was thinking of something with a remote that she could keep with her in the yard and set off if he sets foot on her property. A good dog would alert her to his presence so she could tend her yard and not constantly keep looking over shoulder.

Didn't think of that I will find out about those tomorrow

what about an electric fence with barbed wire on the top?

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Now playing: Kiss - Psycho Circus (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/kiss/track/psycho+circus)
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That would not be a bad idea either as long as the law doesn't consider it a trap

[Genetic Defect]

Didn't think of that I will find out about those tomorrow



That would not be a bad idea either as long as the law doesn't consider it a trap

:hm thats my problem I only think of half the details.

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[awsmith4]

:hm thats my problem I only think of half the details.

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Maybe if we get a bull :hm

[Genetic Defect]

Maybe if we get a bull :hm

If I had some free time I could visit for a short while ;)

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[awsmith4]

If I had some free time I could visit for a short while ;)

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Shoot n herf?

[Genetic Defect]

Shoot n herf?

thinking non-lethal. crow bar, lead pipe, pepper spray, gasoline and a fire extinguisher

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[awsmith4]

thinking non-lethal. crow bar, lead pipe, pepper spray, gasoline and a fire extinguisher

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You are welcome anytime brother

[Genetic Defect]

You are welcome anytime brother

thank you, is there a good lake near by?

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[awsmith4]

thank you, is there a good lake near by?

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We could find one :tu

[Genetic Defect]

We could find one :tu

only if we could see the terror in his eyes as life slips away :ss

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[awsmith4]

only if we could see the terror in his eyes as life slips away :ss

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:tu

[kzm007]

Beanbag rounds for this? http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

This has been a very informative thread for me, thank you all. OP, I wish you and yours all the best with this fella. My brother's bipolar, never takes his meds either, so I've heard a lot of and seen a little of what mental illness and/or drinking can do.

Thanks also to Hippi3Slay3r for mentioning that Taurus. When I'm of age, I just might look into the Judge, or its next version if Taurus expands on it at all.

A well-informed citizen is a well-armed citizen, and vice-versa.

[kydsid]

If you are really considering the expense of an electric fence? Why not just hire Wackenhut to put a guy on a stool with a .45 in you MIL's yard?

[loki]

have we ruled out a mine field and a flame thrower?

[Genetic Defect]

http://heystupid.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/mouse-trap.jpg

[BillyCigars]

And don't forget a Backhoe to "clean up" the "mess" :r

[awsmith4]

If you are really considering the expense of an electric fence? Why not just hire Wackenhut to put a guy on a stool with a .45 in you MIL's yard?

Electric bull fence top wires only run about $100, but no that is not an option we were considering. However the wackenhut idea isn't bad either :hm

have we ruled out a mine field and a flame thrower?

Mine field might get the cats but flame thrower is still on the table

[livwire68]

One thing to keep in mind about a firearm. In many cases it winds up being used against the owner, they hesitate to use it or do not know how to use it thus allowing the attacker to get to close. I reccomend pepper spray, I carry sabre brand which also has a uv dye and tear gas. Someone also said the stuff from fox labs, I do not have first hand experience with this brand, but I purchased the fox labs mean green. This stuff has an actual green dye that will make identification possible for a couple days. Pepper spray is cheap, but you still have to know it and understand it (be on the right side of the wind, how to work the safety and the distance of the spray).

[icehog3]

another note, and not a pleasant one to think about...



If your MiL is close enough for a baton/contact stun gun/etc.... it is far too close. Depending on physical abilities of the aggressor and the victim, within 21 feet is the danger zone, and that is less than you think. Use the police and the justice system for every possible transgression to build a case, even the little stuff, it could help them in the future as being a "reluctant participant" should any violence take place. De-escalation of any possible situation would be the proper action, even if it hampers your families quality of life for a short time, because the alternatives, if this neighbor is mentally unstable, are not acceptable.

Actually, that is the old standard used by law enforcement....35 feet is the accepted standard today.

[rrplasencia]

just have Tom come over and stay a while, at least he looks mean on the outside. :tu

[elderboy02]

Claymores should also do the trick ;)

[TheTraveler]

Claymores should also do the trick ;)

The anti-personnel mines or the big swords? :D

I feel for your family. I wish it was easier to protect yourself and not face UNDUE or EXCESSIVE heat for it. I don't think we should be able to kill someone for giving us a mean look but, damn, it's hard to protect your own life in this country sometimes. I sincerely hope things work out well with the minimum of trouble for you and your family - best case, he's evaluated and sent to a padded cell if needed, or otherwise finds himself out of your lives.

I feel for you all.