Driving a manual transmission car...

[BUCASmoker]

So I just recently (late April) purchased my first car with a manual transmission - an '05 Acura TSX. Basically, I bought it without knowing how to drive stick (I had driven a MT maybe a few times before).

It's been 2 months now and I still can't seem to smooth out my shifts in the lower gears (starting out and shifting into 2nd.. 3rd through 6th gear is fine, however). I drove my friend's Jetta this weekend, and all the shifts were smooth. Is there something that I could be doing wrong that is specific to the TSX, or is it one of those things that will come with more practice (2 months seems like it is long enough though...right?)

Any thoughts?

[GreekGodX]

I say more practice!! Luckily for me my dad had a company car that I got to learn how to drive a stick on. I'm sure you've heard it all already...

Let the clutch go until you feel the car moving forward give some gas and slowly release the clutch. Keep playing to find out the right amount of clutch release and how much gas to give. From there you should be golden.

[DMK]

practice, practice, practice..... then practice on grades....

[MedicCook]

It was a lot of practice when I was a teenage. I also lived on a dead end road and had to go from a stopped position on a steep hill every time I wanted to go anywhere.

[PeteSB75]

First suggestion: The friction point is key. That's the spot on the clutch where the engine begins to engage. My best suggestion for you would be to go find a fairly steep, but seldom used road, preferably with a light/stop sign at the top. Sit at that light, and for a full red cycle at least, do not use your brakes. Ride the friction point on the clutch and the gas just enough to keep the car from rolling backwards, but not so much that you start going forward.

Second suggestion: Watch the speed with which you engage/disengage both the clutch and the gas when shifting. Both should be VERY smooth and simultaneous. You want the clutch to only be fully engaging as you are coming off the gas. You want the clutch disengaging as you are coming back on the gas. The way it was explained to me was to pretend I was driving a limo. A little practice and you'll be fine.

Third suggestion: Learn how to power shift and tell any passengers that you are just working for maximum acceleration :ss

[BUCASmoker]

I say more practice!! Luckily for me my dad had a company car that I got to learn how to drive a stick on. I'm sure you've heard it all already...

Let the clutch go until you feel the car moving forward give some gas and slowly release the clutch. Keep playing to find out the right amount of clutch release and how much gas to give. From there you should be golden.

Yeah... it's not that I can't start... its just that I can't start smoothly. I think I need better work on letting the clutch out smoothly.

It just seems weird that I can drive the Jetta perfectly smooth, but my TSX is still all jumpy.

[mmblz]

for 1st gear, someone once told me - practice letting the clutch out without touching the gas. you have to do it very smoothly in order not to stall.

[vankleekkw]

If the jetta is an older car, it is probably because the friction plates are worn out making the start/transitions easier as they are slipping during that transition. My suggestion is to learn the way I learned.

Take the car to a parking lot and just go forward and backwards by NOT using the gas pedal. This will make you learn the friction zones of the car. After you go back onto the street, do not try to hold the clutch too long. Once it bites, let it go.

[kelmac07]

Practice, practice, and some more practice...both in an empty parking lot and on hills.

[BUCASmoker]

I tried driving up my girlfriend's driveway... which happens to be a 45 degree long incline.

That was disastrous :r

[Flatsix]

Relax, listen to the car and let it happen. I seriously think you're over thinking it.

[RGD.]

My days of shifting are long over - too much bumper to bumper driving and I can't hold my cell phone, cigar, coffee, steering wheel and shift at the same time - :ss

But - in addition to the other suggestions given: some cars have longer and others a shorter throw in the clutch. Most new stick drivers tend to depress the clutch all the way down - when it's not needed. In a longer throw this could give you a little rougher shift as the engine revs a tad higher in between the shift. If you are depressing all the way - try not so much and see what happens. Most VW's I have driven had a pretty short throw - but that was a long time ago -

Goes along with Pete's post and the friction deal.


Good luck!


Ron

[BUCASmoker]

If the jetta is an older car, it is probably because the friction plates are worn out making the start/transitions easier as they are slipping during that transition. My suggestion is to learn the way I learned.

Take the car to a parking lot and just go forward and backwards by NOT using the gas pedal. This will make you learn the friction zones of the car. After you go back onto the street, do not try to hold the clutch too long. Once it bites, let it go.

jetta I think is an 03... not old enough to need a new clutch yet.

[BUCASmoker]

My days of shifting are long over - too much bumper to bumper driving and I can't hold my cell phone, cigar, coffee, steering wheel and shift at the same time - :ss

But - in addition to the other suggestions given: some cars have longer and others a shorter throw in the clutch. Most new stick drivers tend to depress the clutch all the way down - when it's not needed. In a longer throw this could give you a little rougher shift as the engine revs a tad higher in between the shift. If you are depressing all the way - try not so much and see what happens. Most VW's I have driven had a pretty short throw - but that was a long time ago -

Goes along with Pete's post and the friction deal.


Good luck!


Ron
the TSX definately has a much longer throw than the jetta.... I'll give that a try on my way to work tomorrow.

[Col. Kurtz]

Try double-clutching it like an old school bus. The engine probably needs some more time to slow down the rpms before you engage the higher gear....

Worth exactly what you paid for it....

[Mugen910]

yeah diff car diff feel...

I saw cover your RPMs and learn to feel the car. Then you'll start to learn when to shift and what it feels like to do it smoothly.

[BUCASmoker]

Try double-clutching it like an old school bus. The engine probably needs some more time to slow down the rpms before you engage the higher gear....

Worth exactly what you paid for it....

I dont really know what it feels like to drive an old school bus. :r

Can you explain double clutching? Is that popping it in N, letting off the clutch, then shifting?

[kgoings]

You may be shifting out of 1st gear either too early or too late. When your in second gear, figure out what speed second begins to grab. When you feel your at the lower end of second gear note the speed, and try changing gears from 1st to 2nd at that speed.

My Dad taught me to drive in a manual, I never drove an automatic till I was in the Military. You get to know the RPM's of the car and where the power is.

On that note, my friend let me drive both of his Ferrari's OMG! I thought I was going to blow the engines! Those things are meant to be driving at really high RPM's (compared to 'normal' cars) That was an experience.

[AAlmeter]

I dont really know what it feels like to drive an old school bus. :r

Can you explain double clutching? Is that popping it in N, letting off the clutch, then shifting?

Yeah pretty much, not really necessary for a car with synched gears (think of the scene where Nick Cage and Angelina Jolie are stealing the car in the driveway...thats what they were talking about).

Like everyone said, play with it and get to know when your clutch is grabbing. To put it simply, as you let the clutch out, a spinning thing is coming into contact with a non-spinning thing (in 1st from a stop) that has a lot of resistance. If you don't do it smoothly, all hell breaks loose and it really stirs up your breakfast. Done correctly, you're fine. The key is to play around and teach your muscles the proper pressure. You need the right engine speed combined with the proper speed of release, and all of this is based on the particular car and the grade.

Sounds confusing, but it really is just a matter of practice. Like others have said, getting the car fully engaged in first without the use of the throttle is a great way to learn how your clutch operates. Get that down, add some throttle, and you'll be good to go in no time.

As far as double clutching, it can certainly be done, and you can even shift gears without the use of the clutch by properly syncing speeds, but I think for most, learning to control the left foot is far more difficult than the right foot since we're all so used to driving with the right foot. Try coming to a gentle stop with your left foot (especially for MT drivers) and you'll see what I mean.

[SeanGAR]

The clutch in different vehicles need different finesse to be super smooth. Then again, I don't worry too much about smoothness, I shift at 4000-5000 rpm and whip my foot down and off really fast. In first gear I know where the friction point is and balance the clutch and gas to make smooth starts. Riding the clutch will result in a premature eclutchulation. You don't want that.

Your 6 speed gearbox in the TSX is close range. That means you use the gears more to get final drive ratio than if you had a 5 speed. This is good for power, assuming you drive it right, but also means you're busier.

I find I'm smoother in my Civic clutch (wire) than my wife's Legacy (hydraulic). Each car takes a bit of practice to get it right. I haven't changed the clutch in my Civic yet (325.6K), so something must be going right.

I'd not be inclined to double clutch a car that has synchromesh (pretty much everything in the last 50 years). I'd pay more attention to your shift RPM and clutch friction point. The RPM for peak torque and HP are related to where you should shift.

[themoneycollector]

As other have said, it just takes practice. I also don't condone learning MT on a nice car, I would use a beater for that. But with that said, some tidbits of advice.

1. Practice rev-matching when you are downshifting into the lower gears
2. Use the full-range of the clutch, be nice & steady from the very bottom all the way to the top.
3. Don't be afraid to let the car stall. Just stay calm, start up again and try another time (even if cars are honking at you to get going). The worst things you can do to your tranny and clutch are dump the clutch out of fear, or over-rev the engine while slipping the clutch.

[BUCASmoker]

As other have said, it just takes practice. I also don't condone learning MT on a nice car, I would use a beater for that. But with that said, some tidbits of advice.

1. Practice rev-matching when you are downshifting into the lower gears
2. Use the full-range of the clutch, be nice & steady from the very bottom all the way to the top.
3. Don't be afraid to let the car stall. Just stay calm, start up again and try another time (even if cars are honking at you to get going). The worst things you can do to your tranny and clutch are dump the clutch out of fear, or over-rev the engine while slipping the clutch.

I've done #3 a few times :(

[RBOrrell]

I tried driving up my girlfriend's driveway... which happens to be a 45 degree long incline.

That was disastrous :r

Learn to do heel-toe on the right foot for inclines.

[tobii3]

I tried driving up my girlfriend's driveway... which happens to be a 45 degree long incline.

That was disastrous :r

My parents version of Driver's Ed for me....

Our driveway....then San Francisco.

I can drive a manual xmsn in ANY car nowadays.

And, isn't it a REQUIREMENT for a Man to be able to drive a stick???

:r

[rizzle]

Can you bring it to my neighborhood while you are practicing? I love the entertainment value of watching someone learn to drive a stick. :r:r

I learned it with three-on-a-tree in my grandfather's old truck on the farm. Those were the days, man.

[tobii3]

oh man Riz...

A 71 Ford 300 with three on the tree...Now THAT brings back memories!

:tu

[rizzle]

oh man Riz...

A 71 Ford 300 with three on the tree...Now THAT brings back memories!

:tu

I think my grandfather's was a 73 or 74 Chevy. As it got later in its years we'd be driving that thing down some old country roads and about every couple of miles it would slip out of third and start making this grinding noise. Of course Grandaddy never worried about getting it fixed, you'd just slam it back in gear and keep on trucking. :tu

[Col. Kurtz]

I dont really know what it feels like to drive an old school bus. :r

Can you explain double clutching? Is that popping it in N, letting off the clutch, then shifting?

That's it, and no today's synchro trans don't need it, but it gives the engine time to catch up with the next gear and road speed. This is a good way to get the feel, then you can just shift normally. No hurries between shifts.

I learned to drive a manual on a truck older than Tobii. It was a 1947 Chevy 3100 straight six with three on the column. Ran 62mph in second and 57 in third :r That was at the coast before farm kids needed permits and driver's licenses :dance:

I wish my car ran as smooth as that old truck.....

[BlackDog]

So I just recently (late April) purchased my first car with a manual transmission...

I'm the other way around. After driving for 31 years the Ford Escape I drive now is my first automatic. If I had it to do over again, I'd go with the manual. Much more control over the car with a manual, especially in snow. I learned to drive on an 8 speed Ford dump truck. Lots of entertainment value there for onlookers. that thing could buck like a bronco. I think I hit my mouth on the steering wheel. :D

As the others said, practice is your friend. Watching the tach is fine, but listening to the enginbe is better. You'll get to know instinctively when the revs are right to make a smooth gear change.

[shilala]

Sounds to me like you're running in first too long before getting to second, then slapping second before the rpm's back down enough.
A lot of guys have said "listen to the car".
My brother once taught a deaf kid how to drive the dump truck simply by feeling the motor through the stick. He could drive that old dump flawlessly.
Ya just gotta feel the machine and let it tell you what to do, just like any machine.

[Silound]

Hmmm, I learned how to drive stick on a tractor older than 90% of the people on this forum....a 1937 International Harvester Farmall Model A :)

[Tripp]

I've never driven a Jetto or TSX, but doesnt a TSX have heftier engine? I'd imagine a car with significant HP difference would be a little squirrelier on the power transfer

[dentonparrots]

Being in the UK the vast majority of cars here are manuals anyway and that's how we all learn to drive really. The problem for us is driving automatics..we hear the engine note go up and go to change gear, slamming the left foot into the brake pedal like we would a clutch...man that makes for fun driving!!

The trick to driving automatics for us is to simply NEVER use the left foot..easier said than done after years of clutch driving.

You've had good advice so far so I won't offer any, other than to say try doing hill starts. You can't allow the car to slip backwards even an inch in your test or you fail here.

[BUCASmoker]

According to a TSX forum that I post on, part of the problem has to do with the fact that the TSX has a drive-by-wire config, where the amount of fuel flowing to the engine is controlled by a computer, rather than a mechanical connection from the throttle to the engine.

According to the posters on there, Honda/Acura didn't really get the fuel injection right, where when you let off the throttle completely, it shuts off the fuel injectors and when you get back on it, it takes a second to turn them on again, and it isn't smooth. They recommended slightly riding the throttle when you shift, so that the fuel injectors never really close.

[Col. Kurtz]

Hmmm, I learned how to drive stick on a tractor older than 90% of the people on this forum....a 1937 International Harvester Farmall Model A :)

Very cool. I'm looking at a 1954 Super A while smoking a DPG Blue. Still work that tractor almost every day in the summer. And no, I'm not the original owner....

[Silound]

Ours is original to us, but far from original in build :) Also I made a typo up there, I think ours is a '47 not a '37...I'm pretty sure the A series wasn't started until 1939. It's hard to tell now though due to the age and number of rebuilds it's been through.

My grandfather purchased it new, but in 1982 it was severely damaged in a barn fire and rebuilt the following year from the ground up. Several things aren't original to the tractor, but were added in later years models like field lights, an alternator (as opposed to the original generator), and a battery starter. I don't know how much of the tractor is even original

[cbsmokin]

According to a TSX forum that I post on, part of the problem has to do with the fact that the TSX has a drive-by-wire config, where the amount of fuel flowing to the engine is controlled by a computer, rather than a mechanical connection from the throttle to the engine.

According to the posters on there, Honda/Acura didn't really get the fuel injection right, where when you let off the throttle completely, it shuts off the fuel injectors and when you get back on it, it takes a second to turn them on again, and it isn't smooth. They recommended slightly riding the throttle when you shift, so that the fuel injectors never really close.

When upshifting or downshifting, rarely if ever, am I 100% off the throttle. You have to use the gas to bring up the rpm for the lower or higher gear. All cars vary a little bit. If you were smooth in the Jetta then you are probably doing just fine. 1 st to 2nd in my car is usually not that smooth compared to all others up to 6. The gears are just winding a lot faster and delivering a lot more torque.

Good for you for driving stick. I do it every day because it's fun. My kids will have to learn or I wont let them drive. Driving a manual transmission makes you feel your car and you will know when something is wrong.

[mithrilG60]

Yeah... it's not that I can't start... its just that I can't start smoothly. I think I need better work on letting the clutch out smoothly.

It just seems weird that I can drive the Jetta perfectly smooth, but my TSX is still all jumpy.

It's just the difference in clutches. VW uses a short clutch with smooth syncro's and a long friction point. My parents used to have a manual Dodge Neon and the transition from driving my Corrado or Passat to that when I went to visit them was hard to get used to. By the time I'd be fully off the clutch pedal in the VW's the Neon's clutch would still have engaged. The first couple start attempts would always result in either over-reving or a stall until I got used to the Neon again.

My guess is that the TSX has a very short friction point and that is what's giving you the jerky engages in low gear compared to you buddy's Jetta. It's just a matter of practice before you're fully used to the TSX.

[BUCASmoker]

It's just the difference in clutches. VW uses a short clutch with smooth syncro's and a long friction point. My parents used to have a manual Dodge Neon and the transition from driving my Corrado or Passat to that when I went to visit them was hard to get used to. By the time I'd be fully off the clutch pedal in the VW's the Neon's clutch would still have engaged. The first couple start attempts would always result in either over-reving or a stall until I got used to the Neon again.

My guess is that the TSX has a very short friction point and that is what's giving you the jerky engages in low gear compared to you buddy's Jetta. It's just a matter of practice before you're fully used to the TSX.

That was what my friend said (the guy who owns the jetta) - that the TSX has a shorter throw and a shorter span for the clutch.

So what's a good way to compensate for the short friction point? Go slower through it?