real or psychosematic

[RevSmoke]

Knew that title would get your attention.

It is a variation of the age old question - Cuban cigars -vs- non-Cuban cigars. Now, there are certain cigars that are special releases (CCs & NCs), please do not those factor into this discussion. I want this to be about cigars that might fit into the regular rotation of most people here. We're talking the everyday cigars. And yes, that may vary greatly from individual to individual based on financial ability, but let's not make this about the limited editions and special releases.

Also, it would be nice if the entire post were read before commenting, as I'd like to get some honest self-introspection (I personally have done some of that).

Here's the background.

There are some who will not smoke an "NC," considering them inferior in every regard. This is not a question about whether Cuban cigars are that much better. Please read on...

For example, the filet mignon is indeed the most tender cut of beef, and is supposed to be the best steak. Indeed, I have had tenderloins that melt in my mouth, I have chewed them with my tongue. But I personally prefer a ribeye - the marbling gives more flavor to it, and while I may never be able to chew one entirely with my tongue, those flavors win 99% of the time.

Now, movng on to the meat of my thinking. I have smoked cigars since 1980, so I have had a few. While I may never have smoked as many as some do on a daily basis, I think I can safely say that I've been around the block once or twice. I have smoked some Cubans from the 70s through the present. Lately, due to some sales and some gifts, I have smoked more than I have previously. I had to seriously consider a few Cubans as part of my blind tasting for a few issues of SMOKE - this was a great experience because I went into each cigar without any presuppositions - this can truly be humbling and eye-opening. And with the sales this last year, I have enjoyed a few more CCs recently.

Through it all, I can confidently say that I have had excellent Cubans, Nicaraguans, Dominicans, and Hondurans (not a big fan of Jamaican, Mexican, Philippine blended cigars though).

As I have watched a number of conversations on a couple different cigar boards, there are a few who are adamant that only Cuban cigars be their choice, I even read someone saying, "I'd rather smoke a mixed filler, machine rolled Cuban than a Padron Anniversario - they are that much better."

I am going to qualify this here - so that there are no accusations intended. In my own experience, I have come to a few conclusions.

Yes, there are different flavors in all cigars. Yes, Cubans have some rather distinctive flavors. But, from my experience, not all Cubans have the same distinctive flavors. Some people claim that Cubans are smoother (rather than harsh) than non-Cubans - I haven't always found that to be true.

This brings up the first simple question in 2 parts:
1a) In your experience, is there one distinctive flavor/aroma characteristic that is solely found in Cuban cigars?
1b) Have you found it present in ALL Cuban cigars?
1c) If you have found them so, describe the "smooth" characteristic that is present (according to your experience) in Cubans -vs- Non.

From my experience then, I have found that there are distinctive flavor and aroma profiles in every single cigar I have smoked. I have some CC and NC sticks in my humidor. I have found that I grab a stick according to what flavor/aroma profile is beckoning to me. There may be other factors that affect that appeal; what I'm doing, what I am eating and/or drinking, who I am with, etc. Although I could grab CCs only till they are gone, I don't. In fact, I don't necessarily want to. They do not always figure into my appeal factor.

This has caused me to ponder whether Cubans are really so much better than other cigars. And my personal taste conclusion is that to my palate, they are not necessarily better, but different. And, it is the difference in all of them that makes certain cigars appeal at certain times.

This brings me to the heart of the matter and my most pressing question(s). (and don't answer for others, this is to be introspective)

2) Is the difference (as may have been noted in question 1) that significant, that Cubans are so much better? Or, is it more of a personal taste issue - where someone prefers the "distinctiveness" of a Cuban so much, that they don't "want" to smoke anything else? (like why I'll take a Ribeye over a Filet Mignon almost every time)

By the way, I have local guy who smokes only Philly Blunts - I have given him different cigars, and now he won't take them when I offer them. He said, "Sorry, no offense, but your cigars taste like crap!" To top it off, the last cigar I had given him was a Punch Corona '98.

Thanks for playing along.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[Emjaysmash]

Hey todd
TO answer your first question, in my opinion ( and somewhat limited experience) Most of the CC's iv'e msoked had some amount of Tannin in them, which i dont find in NC's. This tips me off on an unbanded cigar as to whether or not it is a CC. Otherwise, I cant say i can tell a definitive cuban flavor.

2) it is imho a personal taste issue. I mean that guy who smokes Phillie blunts is a perfect example.

just my 2 cents.

[MajorCaptSilly]

Great post.

I feel Cubans have that "tang" taste that is hard to explain. The smoke seems richer and the strength seems "smoother". It doesn't give you that irratation in the back of your throat.

I haven't found the "woodsy" not cedary but woodsy taste in any of the Cubans I've had so far. I love that woodsy taste and tend to find it in stronger Dominicans and Hondurans. I aslo get more of the leathery/chocolate flavor I like from a good Nicaraguan.

To sum it up, I fell in love with Cubans at first and thought they would be the only smoke for me then went back to my favorite NCs for those familiar flavors I love. They both have a place for me but I don't find any of them superior, just different.

MCS

[TanithT]

I do in fact like the "typical" CC profile very, very much. This isn't to say that other cigars with similar profiles cannot be equally good, or contain many of the same flavors that appeal to me in an elegant, well constructed structure.

I happen to like "Havana Horsesh*t", and specifically I like it when paired with coffee and cream, some Spanish leather, a touch of nuttiness or woodsiness and perhaps a bit of cedar. There are NC's that fit this profile, but almost all CC's fit this profile to some extent and have at least some of the specific flavors that I like very much.

That's pretty much all it is for me, really. I've enjoyed many NC's as much or more than any particular CC, but in general even a middling-to-inferior CC is likely to deliver a pleasurable experience to some extent for me because I just plain like the terroir.

[icehog3]

REv, I am very careful about questions which state or imply "always" and/or "never".

I will say that I am primarily a "nose smoker", and find Cubans are much more enjoyable in general for this kind of smoking, as many of the Central and South American tobacco seems a bit harsh through the nose.

No doubt there are some wonderful Nicaraguan, Dominican, American, etc cigars. I just prefer Cubans for my tastes. If the nose smoking part implies more "smoothness", then I guess there is my answer. :)

[larryinlc]

There are so many variables that come into play while smoking a cigar. Most notably mindset. Cigars almost always smoke and taste better when I'm in a mellow happy mood. That being said, in my 30 years of smoking, I do recognize the cc profile and I like it. However, it's not always present. I agree with the original op assessment....not better, but different.

Larry

[shilala]

I'm a nose smoker like Tom, and I enjoy Nicaraguans, DOminicans and Hondurans for just the opposite reason. The spice. I love it.
Now, back to the steak disscussion...
I find filets tender, but far less flavorful than a Del Monico (same cut as Prime Rib, they call it different things in different places).
It's the fullness of flavor that grabs me.
With cc's, they remind me of nursing home food. No Salt, no spices, no flavors.
There's something there, but there's an empty spot where the body should be.
When I say "body", I mean that flavor that fills your mouth.
I have yet to find a cc with any body. If there is any at all, it's bitterness, and I hate bitter.
So to answer 1a, b, and c, I have found specific sweetness in cc's that I haven't found anywhere else that is exactly the same. I can only get it in the nose.
But the body is always either completely vacant, bitter, or tastes like wet ashtray.

Add to that inferior construction, half-assed crafstmanship, and plugged smokes, and I just don't buy many because I find them a far inferior value, and I like so many other cigars so much more.

That said, I have smoked four or five cc's that were fabulous.
Even those lacked the "body" that I so much enjoy. I do think I'll find that body in Cuaba. I've only ever had one, and I loved it. It was a little divinos.
I have a big one here that I'm looking forward to trying, and I'm hoping it delivers what I like.

Todd, I think your steak analogy was an excellent representation of "the difference". I wouldn't walk across the street for a New York Strip. Just don't like the cut. No "body". A ribeye or del monico, and I'm a happy guy.

I think that I'm unable to enjoy the milder floral candy sweetness of cc's because I've destroyed my senses with a can or two of snuff a day for the last 30 years.
But every now and again, I still get a hankering for that cotton candy nose sweetness that some new cc's deliver. I can enjoy about half the cigar till it tastes like ashtray and I chuck them.
I've always thought that if I could just get some fresh cc's, take care of them the way I take care of my other fresh nc's, I'd find the body, figuring it's lost with age.
I've tried that and it isn't true. It just isn't there to the extent or flavor I enjoy.
CC's hang on to that tannin bitterness for years. It's just there. And I don't like it.
I don't even eat sour candy. It's just a flavor I don't care for, and no matter how many times I try, I can't get used to it.
I'm hoping I don't find those same qualities in Cuaba, because it's the last cc brand that I haven't explored thoroughly. It's on the drawing board though. :)

All that said...
It real easy for me to see why so many guys like cc's.
To me, they're like drinking Coors Lite with a coffee stirrer straw, with a cigarette butt and sour gummi worm floating in the can. :D

[Ashcan Bill]

As far as the first question, no, I don’t find any one flavor predominant throughout all the Cuban marcas. I find most to have unique characteristics, and that’s why I enjoy some and dislike others. Same goes for NCs. The one commonality I see across the board with Cuban cigars is the lack of harshness compared to NCs, especially on the nose exhale. The tobacco is just mellower.

As far as the second question, are they better? Personally, I usually prefer a CC over a NC. The CC is a bit more sophisticated in that I can identify and enjoy flavors I don’t generally get in NCs. Now this isn’t a 100% deal, as I’ve had plenty of flat CCs. And there are NCs that I inventory and smoke often enough, and I quite enjoy them. But overall, I prefer the CC for its lack of harshness and flavor profile.

The downside is the construction of CCs. I don’t know why so many are twisted, tightly bunched, or just plain plugged but they are. Conversely, it’s exceedingly rare to get a NC too tight to draw. That’s the real mystery to me.

[Footbag]

I've been smoking for 12 years now, and primarily started with NC's. My preferred brands for a long time were Fuente and Padron, probably because they were the only ones I was familiar with. About two years ago, I found ClubStogie and it opened up a whole new world for me. I found that I liked the DPG spice and really started experimenting

More recently, I've moved on to CC's and definitely prefer them. I do seem to find a common flavor that Cubans posses that I typically won't detect in non-Cubans, and I assume it to be the "twang". Then again, sometimes I question whether we are all talking about the same twang.

To describe it, I would say it somewhere between peat and wet hay. It's like a musty sweetness. Not as unpleasant as I'm sure it sounds and I'm not saying it's my favorite flavor in Cubans or even the flavor I'm searching for, but it's what I identify as the twang.

All that said, I'm smoking a lot of Partagas these days, and the twang is not as prevalent as other smokes. What it does have is a very exotic spiciness that I have not found in any other brand. If I could, I'd be smoking Party's all day long.

One other thing I find, is that when I smoke non-cubans that have a grassy profile(Zino's for me)I don't like them as much as Cubans that have the grassy profile. The NC's may just taste too green, while if I'm smoking a Cohiba Robusto, I detect grass, but a very pleasant grass. You may notice that If I use the term grassiness in a review, I will always use the term "pleasant" or "unpleasant" because there seems to be grass I like and grass I don't like.

All that said, like Tom and Scott, I'm a nose smoker and the ability to nose exhale 30-50% of the smoke rather then my typical 10% makes them a much more flavorful smoke or at least I pull more flavors out of them. Plus, it just makes smoking them a bit more relaxing.

And great idea for a post.

[shilala]

Great post.
I love that woodsy taste and tend to find it in stronger Dominicans and Hondurans.

MCS
Opus is Dominican. It's nothing but wood, and you don't like them.
I think you need an old one. When they are new, they are all spicy and citrus flavored. They suck, bad.
After a few years, they taste like Dominican wood. I bet you'd love one with five or six years on it. :tu
I still don't like them, even when they are old, but they are a 100% completely different cigar with a few years on them. Not even remotely the same. I'd go so far to say that in a blind test, not a single person would think they were the same cigar.

[jjirons69]

I agree with Tom about nasal smoking. CCs tend to give a smoother, more floral nasal taste. The smoke is easier to roll. Of the NCs, I tend to like Nics best and like MCS said, they're more chocolate/leather/wood and tend to be fuller and a bit harsher on average. They're a little harder to handle with nasal smoking. They are lots more problems with CCs becoming plugged. NCs tend to like to unravel a little more. CCs like lower RH for storage and NCs can handle the higher range. Shilala was correct about the spice. NCs tend to have more blends with lots more spice. A spicy CCs is the exception.

[RevSmoke]

That's what I like, putting a finger on why someone enjoys one thing over another... This isn't saying they are better or worse, just what someone prefers and why.

This is most helpful.

Thanks for participating.

[The Poet]

I will start off with 2 confessions. Imprimis, I have smoked a lot, a lot, A LOT of NC cigars, and only a handful of CC ones. Some of the NCs have not been to my personal taste, which is a good reason to smoke them - to find out what you like. I did so, and am not pretty much a Villazon wh@#&, meaning I feel confident I will enjoy nearly every Hondouran from that factory, especially the maduros. They have a sweetness and fullness that suits my palate, without that smash-mouth pepper of many Nicaraguans or the light nutty "is this dang thing even lit?" mildness of Dominicians. Secundus, I've smoked only a double-handfull of CCs, all gifts from BOTLs (hint, hint), but of several top-notch brands, so my experience is broader than it is deep. As for the CCs, they seem to have a deceptive mildness to start, one that is still tasty as opposed to bland, but the smoke seems to develop to a greater complexity about 1/2-way without getting that hot and dirty bite as often, or as badly, as some NCs. Were they better? Maybe, maybe not. The only true "difference" I've noticed is the higher lithium content in CC tobacco (due to soil conditions), which does not affect the taste, but does alter my mood more than NCs. A good thing? Sometimes, but I did have one "bad trip" after a CC, when my haid was all #^@&ed up for three days afterwards.

Were the price, and the ease of acquisition, of CCs the same as NCs, my rotation would feature both prominently. Hey, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. As this is NOT the case, I'd be happy to stick with devil I know forever, and smoke my Villazons.

Bottom line, as the Reverend's friend illustrates with his beloved Phillies, you should smoke what you like, and like what you smoke. And never, never let some cigar snob tell you you're an @$$.

:ss

[bobarian]

I smoke predominantly CC's and am mostly a nose smoker as well. When nose exhaling CC's I notice a floral and "hay" like flavors that I dont find as often with NC's. Another flavor that I seldom find in NC's is the vanilla, caramel toffee flavors that I find in the Por Larranaga line. I also find most CC's are more complex with layers of flavors coming simultaneously. What I miss in CC's is the kick or punch that comes in some LFD's, Camachos or other full bodied blends.:2

[hotreds]

Vely intelesting! Keeping in mind that taste is taste, and one cannot argue with it, I'd say that over all I prefer the cc variety. I have found these to, in fact, be smoother, and less likely to give me an unpleasant buzz. Seems like their goal in life is not to make a cigar so strong it'll make you barf after one puff- one keeps reading about boasting about double, triple, and who knows how high the nc ligero content will go.

On the other hand, some of my favorite cigars are ncs. A few I've given "As" to are considered "yard gars."

You also run into the "cigar snobs" that look down upon anything that isn't an aged cc LE.

So, to answer your question- it's real all right- just as and because "taste is taste."

As has been stated by many more expert than me: "Smoke what you like and like what you smoke!" Snobbery be damned!(Pardon the expression, Reverend!)

[TanithT]

Well here's a classic example. Inspired by this thread, I went a lit up a Belinda, a cheap Cuban machine made. Unwrapped, it smelled *delicious*, that classic "Havana horseshit" aroma that (I think) is reminiscent of roasted coffee, toasted hazelnuts and barnyard earth. On lighting, the same aroma/taste came through.

Smoking it down, I could certainly tell that this was not a premium cigar. There was no real subtlety or structure to it at all, and it was pretty one-dimensional. But that one dimension is one I very much enjoy, not because it has any snob value (a machine made cigar is pretty limited on the snob value, to be sure), but because it is a flavor I like a whole lot.

I'd reach for a machine made CC over an NC, if I was in the mood for that particular flavor. Even the ones that aren't complex or well structured are still nice tasty snack cigars with a flavor I happen to enjoy. Assuming I can get them to draw, mutter, grumble. That's one thing about CC's that drives me up the wall. :mad:

All things being equal I'd rather smoke a premium CC, but there are NC cigars that are amazingly well made with plenty of depth, complexity, elegance and structure that are a very enjoyable smoke. The CC flavor profile happens to be my favorite, but that doesn't mean I disdain other tasty sticks with different flavor profiles.

I would not claim that a cheap Cuban was a "better cigar" than a good NC. For that matter, even the expensive Cubans are very often worse cigars than the halfway decent NC's. However the Cuban may be more enjoyable to my personal palate because I just plain like that flavor.

[shilala]

I think the respect everyone has shown for one another's taste in cigars in this is exceptional and very refreshing. It's just makes it that much clearer that we're blessed with some of the best brothers and sisters on the planet.
That said, Sofaman and I smoked five cigars tonight. Three were homegrown handmades from Richard (tzaddi).
We smoked one cc among the five. It was plugged, unraveled, and fell apart. It was from 2000, a little Sancho Panza pc.
It tasted great, so at least there's that. :)
We had a blast, too. :tu

[icehog3]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. :)

[RevSmoke]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. :)

That about summarizes the purpose of this thread.

[Ahbroody]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. :)
:tpd:
That said do cubans have a unique flavor profile. for the most part I would say yes.

I also have to agree with scott that I often find the meat is missing in a CC. Not to say thats always bad. In fact many times for me personally I want something lighter and more subtle. Last night I smoked an HDM epi2, followed by the new illusione empernay. Both were excellent to me. I focused much more on the subtle aspects of the epi2. The Empernay was much more POW. To smoke them in reverse order would not have worked because of how intense the illusione was.

I was smoking a lot more CC than NC, but it is evening up a lot more. I am really enjoying a lot of the NCs lately from Pepin, Padilla, Johnson, and illusione. I will say I find it strange that people swear off an entire region of sticks without trying it. I think the NC area has really improved a lot of the past years.

I have had a few cohiba maduros now and I can say for some reason I prefer the cheap nc sancho maduros. Thats why the smoke what you like phrase is so valid. For my taste preference I would be wasting money smoking the cohiba when I can buy a boat load of sanchos for the same price. Then again half of the flavors I hear mentioned on the board I have never experienced. :confused:

[akumushi]

I'm with the nose smokers on this one. If you break it down between 'flavor' (mouth-feel) and 'aroma' (scent in nose) I find that NCs have almost no aroma besides pepper in the nose, and it is usually too strong for me to snork. I will admit that Nicaraguan smokes have a chewier, more sastifying mouth-feel, so more 'flavor' than CCs, and more frequently have flavors in the chocolatey, coffee range, along with that extra pepper. Honduran and Dominican smokes are simply not my cup of tea. Nicaraguan cigars have a great flavor profile that is unique and worth having every once in a while for a change for me, but the lack of complexity in the nose makes them too boring for me to smoke often. The aromas that CCs have that I seldom find in CCs are mostly in the floral, citrus and woodsy ranges. I have never had an NC that was anywhere near as 'aromatic' as the cheapest MM CCs I've had, but YMMV. I agree that young cubans generally have more tanins than NCs as well, which is one of the reasons most CCs need a couple of years to really shine.

[shilala]

I'm going to say 1a.)More or less, so to speak. 1b.) To some extent, yes. At least I can't think of a cc that lacks it, except maybe RS12's. 1c.) I don't consider it a "smoothness at all. Just a weak "rosey sweeteness" that gets overpowering in some cigars, is very faint in others.

For part 2, I have to go with your ribeye hypothesis. Sometimes I love a Los Statos or La Corona. Sometimes a Cohiba cigarette (which very much brings that hay sweetness to the forefront). It all depends what I'm in the mood for, and how I want it delivered, and at what "speed".
I seldom have a desire for that distincy cc flavor, as I enjoy more body, fullness and in the faceness that different nc's impart.

"Good" or "better" is wholly subjective. That's why it's an argument that goes on forever and can never be won. It makes for interesting conversation, or downright disdain, depending on the parties involved. :)

Sometimes I really get a hankering for a crappy cc, sometimes I get a hankering for a "good" one, but mostly I enjoy the package a Nic puro brings along, or a Dominican puro. I don't feel any are necessarily "better" than the others, but more that different profiles fill different temporary desires.
Kinda like women. ;)

[Snake Hips]

I'm going to go with some others here and echo Tom about the nose smoking. The "smoothness" of the Cubans you hear described I think applies to this; I've encountered nary a non-Cuban that I can blow the whole puff out my nose without serious tear production. I can do that with Cubans very easily (though I don't prefer it).

1a) There is indeed one distinctive flavor characteristic I find in Cuban cigars. The flavor of it I can't describe at all, and it's not necessarily good or bad, it's just there. I happen to like it. And besides that flavor, I also find that the profiles of the Cuban marques are each unique to anything found in the non-Cuban world.
1b) I have not found it present in ALL Cuban cigars, but it varies depending on the individual cigar. Sometimes a Cuban I'm smoking is crap, or isn't distinctive, or is boring or whatever, and I don't find it. Sometime a Cuban I'm smoking is very good, but it's a total departure from anything else I've smoked off the island; often the case is that some flavor characteristic is dominant ("young and unbalanced," some would say) and I can't find the "twang" through it.
1c) The "smooth" characteristic, as I described above, is more in relation to the nose smoking. French inhaling and snorking are both much more pleasant with Cubans to me. "Smooth" in general is not monopolized by Cuban tobacco - I smoke many, many non-Cubans that are smooth as a lacquered n' waxed baby's ass on the palate (Padron 1964 and 1926 in particular), but through the nose I can only do a small amount before it melts my sinuses.

2) The difference, as I describe, is not that significant that Cubans are so much better. I believe it's personal taste. To my taste, the unique flavors of each brand are something to seek out, something I like. But there are tastes in the non-Cuban world that are not found in the Cuban world, and I look for those on occasion as well. The Nicaraguan sweet-spice and the butter-cream taste of some others are something I love to have in my regular rotation.

[Addiction]

1a) In your experience, is there one distinctive flavor/aroma characteristic that is solely found in Cuban cigars?
1b) Have you found it present in ALL Cuban cigars?
1c) If you have found them so, describe the "smooth" characteristic that is present (according to your experience) in Cubans -vs- Non.

I wouldn't say that there is a flavor consistent to ALL CCs, but certianly the characteristic is the smoothness. I'd classify the smoothness that even the heaviest CCs I can nose about half a pull, but most times I can nose the whole thing. With an NC even the lite ones, nosing them is a bit like sticking a live wire in ones nasal cavity, its almost harsh enough to bring tears to the eyes.

I'd also say that a lot NCs get credit for "flavor" where all I get out of them is "strength". But thats just my take.

2) Is the difference (as may have been noted in question 1) that significant, that Cubans are so much better?

For my tastes pretty much yes. There are some CCs I don't smoke but the ones I really like I prefer greatly to NCs. But I'm also the type of guy who can make 10 lbs of lasagna and then eat it for 2 weeks. So its perfect to me to own like 175 Cohiba Lanceros and smoke those heavily. Its just my make up.

[shilala]

1a) In your experience, is there one distinctive flavor/aroma characteristic that is solely found in Cuban cigars?
1b) Have you found it present in ALL Cuban cigars?
1c) If you have found them so, describe the "smooth" characteristic that is present (according to your experience) in Cubans -vs- Non.

I wouldn't say that there is a flavor consistent to ALL CCs, but certianly the characteristic is the smoothness. I'd classify the smoothness that even the heaviest CCs I can nose about half a pull, but most times I can nose the whole thing. With an NC even the lite ones, nosing them is a bit like sticking a live wire in ones nasal cavity, its almost harsh enough to bring tears to the eyes.

I'd also say that a lot NCs get credit for "flavor" where all I get out of them is "strength". But thats just my take.

2) Is the difference (as may have been noted in question 1) that significant, that Cubans are so much better?

For my tastes pretty much yes. There are some CCs I don't smoke but the ones I really like I prefer greatly to NCs. But I'm also the type of guy who can make 10 lbs of lasagna and then eat it for 2 weeks. So its perfect to me to own like 175 Cohiba Lanceros and smoke those heavily. Its just my make up.
That's good stuff, Brian.
I'm just exactly the polar opposite of you. I almost never eat leftovers, I like my cigars to burn a hole right through my sinus cavity to my brain, and I seldom smoke the same cigar twice in a month (or more).
I don't think I'd ever smoke a Cohiba lancero, and I'm sure I'll never seek one out.
Goes to show how different we all are. It's awesome. Thank God there's a bazillion different cigars out there. :tu

[G G]

I haven't smoked enough CCs to form an opinion, but the one's I have had haven't knocked me out with greatness either. I tend to like stronger maduros though (prolly for the same reasons Scott does) but am discovering others that I like too. I have enjoyed reading the thread though, very informative.:tu

[shilala]

I haven't smoked enough CCs to form an opinion, but the one's I have had haven't knocked me out with greatness either. I tend to like stronger maduros though (prolly for the same reasons Scott does) but am discovering others that I like too. I have enjoyed reading the thread though, very informative.:tu
I think we kind of gyped ourselves, Greg. I don't levitate to cc's mainly cause they're too mild and all I get is dirty smoke. Kinda like smoking cigarettes. Some are full and flavorful, but not many. Cohiba maduros are full, but very light. RS11's are very full and have a bit of a whallop. Cuaba's are full of everything, and I enjoy them as much as my NC's. They start smooth, build and blow your doors off with spice.
Aside from that, it's all just dirty air to me.
I don't blame that on the cc's, I blame that on me destroying my senses with bad things over the years. I'm not complaining, it was fun, but it kind of wrecked my opportunity to experience cc's the way other guys can enjoy them.

[wayner123]

I don't blame that on the cc's, I blame that on me destroying my senses with bad things over the years. I'm not complaining, it was fun, but it kind of wrecked my opportunity to experience cc's the way other guys can enjoy them.

I don't think that's the issue. Surely there may be some cases where through physical anomalies people's sinuses are "wrecked". But taste is subjective. Just because one guy enjoys another cigar more than you do, doesn't point to something lacking on your end. It's just the nature of taste.

[mmblz]

my :2

there is a certain characteristic that many cubans share, which hardly any non-cubans seem to have.
i won't even attempt to describe it in words ;)
to me it is significant because i happen to like said characteristic/flavor.
so for me i smoke mostly cubans since i know i'll really like about 90% of them, whereas i'll only really like about 5% of non-cubans.
with limited time, have to go for the best bet :D

[RightAJ]

The 'smoothness' of CCs some of you mention, I do notice, but I find that CCs are just generally lighter in body/flavor than NCs. I am yet to find a truely full bodied CC. Had most if not all the marcas and many sizes, but none jump out with a strong flavor or body for me. They can be very complex and flavorfull, and quite different than NCs, but the tobacco just has a lighter quality to me. The Cuban 'twang' is something I can taste in many CCs, and I quite enjoy it.

aj

PS I to think many people (not necessecirly here though) smoke CCs just to smoke CCs... this bothers me as I think they are snobs

[BC-Axeman]

I find NCs have a MUCH wider taste range in all regards, including tasting just like CCs. This only makes sense, since Cuba is only one place.
Therefore, if you want to find a taste you like or different tastes you like, try everything. If you settle on liking the Cuban taste you are better off with CCs, though they have their share of dogrockets.
Of course preconceptions can make an ordinary cigar taste better or worse, but they won't make a crappy cigar taste good or a great cigar taste bad.

[issues]

Loving this thread as it is very informative.

Unfortunately, I have not had enough experience with CCs to form an opinion or contribute but I will watch this thread closely as I am quite curious about them...

:tu

[shilala]

Loving this thread as it is very informative.

Unfortunately, I have not had enough experience with CCs to form an opinion or contribute but I will watch this thread closely as I am quite curious about them...

:tu
I'm sure that can be remedied. ;)

[G G]

I'm sure that can be remedied. ;)
uh-oh:tf

[issues]

Oh boy, I think I might've stepped into something...

:lv

[Razorhog]

I haven't had experience with CC's either. (only a couple but they could have been fakes). One thing I find troublesome is that people put cigars into two groups: Cubans and Non-Cubans. Of course Cubans have a distinctive flavor profile - just like any other puro does. And of course, NC's have more flavor diversity - they come from a large variety of climates/countries.
The only thing that is different is that Cubans are illegal in the United States. Well, that and the belief some folks have that Cuba is the optimal climate for growing tobacco. Just like regions of France are considered to be the optimal climate for growing grapes. Wine from California and other regions can be good too, but I imagine if there was an embargo on French wine, more people would consider it the best.

[icehog3]

The only thing that is different is that Cubans are illegal in the United States. Well, that and the belief some folks have that Cuba is the optimal climate for growing tobacco. Just like regions of France are considered to be the optimal climate for growing grapes. Wine from California and other regions can be good too, but I imagine if there was an embargo on French wine, more people would consider it the best.

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too. And many people do consider French wine the best even though there is no French Embargo. Me? I'll stick to beer, vodka and rum. :)

[Razorhog]

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too.

A stretch, yes, and perhaps I stated that incorrectly. Just wanted to state that there is a certain "forbidden fruit" factor to Cubans.
The point I was trying to make is that it is grossly unfair to lump cigars into two categories: Cubans and Non-Cubans, when the latter is such a diverse group geographically.

[McSmokey]

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too. And many people do consider French wine the best even though there is no French Embargo. Me? I'll stick to beer, vodka and rum. :)

:tpd:
Except for the vodka part just giver me whiskey or bourbon

[akumushi]

A stretch, yes, and perhaps I stated that incorrectly. Just wanted to state that there is a certain "forbidden fruit" factor to Cubans.
The point I was trying to make is that it is grossly unfair to lump cigars into two categories: Cubans and Non-Cubans, when the latter is such a diverse group geographically.

I think the "forbidden fruit" angle is highly exagerated by those for whom CCs are a forbidden fruit. Once you have several boxes of CCs in your humidor next to several boxes of NCs, your own tastes are going to take over. The CCs won't taste any better just because you got them illegally. The CCs in my humidor are not "forbidden fruit" any more than the NCs, because I have twice as many CCs and I know where to get more if I wanted to, so the fact that I keep reaching for them is solely predicated on my subjective tastes.:2

[BC-Axeman]

I have many boxes of NCs that I will never run out of. If they were to go out of production I would stock up on them. There is no way the Cubans are ever going to make anything like them with Cuban tobacco.
Sometimes I like rum, sometimes scotch. Sometimes light beer, sometimes dark ale. Cuban cigars don't have enough variety for me and I am getting to like only the more flavorful ones. It may be that Cuba is blending with outside leaf anyway.

[akumushi]

I do think it's interesting that the divide seems to be between lovers of in your face, full bodied cigars and lovers of nuanced, mild smokes, so if there are inmates wondering about trying CCs and they love big maduros with tons of pepper like a LFD Maduro Chisel, they'd probably just be wasting their time with CCs, on the other hand, if NCs just seem harsh and over strong to you and the mild ones aren't complex enough for you, then Cuba just might be the island for you. It's great that there are both options out there for smokers, I just hope that Cuba doesn't try to hop on the bandwagon by discontinuing the milder marcas by putting out only super strong smokes like they are with the uber sized ring guages they've been putting out of late. Then those who like mild, thin cigars will be SOL.

[shilala]

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too. And many people do consider French wine the best even though there is no French Embargo. Me? I'll stick to beer, vodka and rum. :)
I agree with you and Clayton, Tom.
If you check out some of the other sites, you'll see a huge amount of ccnobery. It's definately real, and based in machoism and ignorance. Kinda sad and pathetic, but it's what it is.
I think that kind of stuff is what Beau is referring to.
It's cool that that attitude isn't prevalent here, unless you say something about wine. :D
Fortunately the guys here don't need a cigar to "define" them. It's nice, and refreshing. :tu

[JJG]

I also have to agree with Tom, Clayton and everyone else on the nose smoking thing. CCs in general, but not always, tend to be much smoother with a highly satisfying and complex aroma.

However, I don't think reputation or their less than legal status make them taste better. I agree that taste is subjective and a matter of personal opinion, but let's keep in mind that Habanos are legal everywhere outside the US.

also, can we rewind back to this statement?

The only true "difference" I've noticed is the higher lithium content in CC tobacco (due to soil conditions), which does not affect the taste, but does alter my mood more than NCs. A good thing? Sometimes, but I did have one "bad trip" after a CC, when my haid was all #^@&ed up for three days afterwards.

wtf! Is this common??? I'm seriously a little freaked out that my next CC is going to be the one that turns me loony.

[icehog3]

wtf! Is this common??? I'm seriously a little freaked out that my next CC is going to be the one that turns me loony.

I have never heard of anything like it before, Jeff, and certainly never experienced it or seen it experienced. My guess, with no disrespect meant to Thomas, is that something else besides a CC contributed to whatever he experienced.

[Razorhog]

I have never heard of anything like it before, Jeff, and certainly never experienced it or seen it experienced. My guess, with no disrespect meant to Thomas, is that something else besides a CC contributed to whatever he experienced.

Never heard of that before either, but a google search turns up a lot on the subject. Apparently there is a natural Lithium content in the soil in Cuba.
:confused:

[icehog3]

Never heard of that before either, but a google search turns up a lot on the subject. Apparently there is a natural Lithium content in the soil in Cuba.
:confused:

I have read that, but also heard from people who have much more scientific knowledge than I ever will that any Lithium content in a cigar would be negligible.

[Razorhog]

I have read that, but also heard from people who have much more scientific knowledge than I ever will that any Lithium content in a cigar would be negligible.
I believe that. If it were enough to matter, psychiatrists would be prescribing them to mental patients! Hmm....

[icehog3]

I believe that. If it were enough to matter, psychiatrists would be prescribing them to mental patients! Hmm....

And I would be up to 30 cigars a day, Beau! :r :banger

[Razorhog]

And I would be up to 30 cigars a day, Beau! :r :banger

You and me both! :salute:

[akumushi]

I believe that. If it were enough to matter, psychiatrists would be prescribing them to mental patients! Hmm....

Gee, and to think I've been self-medicating with CCs for all these years...

[RevSmoke]

I'd also say that a lot NCs get credit for "flavor" where all I get out of them is "strength". But thats just my take.

2) Is the difference (as may have been noted in question 1) that significant, that Cubans are so much better?

For my tastes pretty much yes. There are some CCs I don't smoke but the ones I really like I prefer greatly to NCs. But I'm also the type of guy who can make 10 lbs of lasagna and then eat it for 2 weeks. So its perfect to me to own like 175 Cohiba Lanceros and smoke those heavily. Its just my make up.

I like the fact that you state that it is just your take. I get great flavors out of both. I can snork both CCs & NCs without much problem. As for "strength" idea, I started a thread about that too, that there are some sticks that seem to have nothing going for them but strength.

I definitely could not eat 10lbs of anything if I had to eat it every day - maybe two days of leftovers, but...

Thanks for your thoughts and response.

I must say that I appreciate all the responses to this thread that I had thought died. It is way cool to see the friendly discussion here.

That smoothness on the nose which has been mentioned here is something I noticed, but it wasn't something that I thought was a big deal. A couple cigars that I found hardest to snork were Cubans (Trinidad Fundadore, Monte #2 being the most recent ones), though they were great smokes without snorking.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

Peace of the Lord beiw thyou.

[RevSmoke]

Loving this thread as it is very informative.

Unfortunately, I have not had enough experience with CCs to form an opinion or contribute but I will watch this thread closely as I am quite curious about them...

:tu

I'm sure that can be remedied.

uh-oh

Oh boy, I think I might've stepped into something...



If I were you, I'd move...


...

...

...

... to another zip code, with no forwarding address. ;s :r

[RevSmoke]

I do think it's interesting that the divide seems to be between lovers of in your face, full bodied cigars and lovers of nuanced, mild smokes, so if there are inmates wondering about trying CCs and they love big maduros with tons of pepper like a LFD Maduro Chisel, they'd probably just be wasting their time with CCs, on the other hand, if NCs just seem harsh and over strong to you and the mild ones aren't complex enough for you, then Cuba just might be the island for you. It's great that there are both options out there for smokers, I just hope that Cuba doesn't try to hop on the bandwagon by discontinuing the milder marcas by putting out only super strong smokes like they are with the uber sized ring guages they've been putting out of late. Then those who like mild, thin cigars will be SOL.

Clayton, interesting musings.

First, I disagree with the premise that those who like Cubans, like them because they have what I call and A&E complex (forbidden fruit). Especially most of the ones posting to this particular thread (and the majority of CC smokers on this board). I think they seriously enjoy their CCs.

Now, I must also contend with you on your statement, not negatively, but to say that I think it is an oversimplification. There is probably some merit to it, but I am not sure that I'd agree completely with the strength -vs- mild aspect of it. I know some CCs that are anything but mild, in fact, most of them are more medium to full. I like it described as the "CC smooooooth factor." (Just had a vision of Col. Potter on MASH describing the one Scotch, "There aren't enough ooos in smooth to describe this Scotch.")

I love LFD DLs and some other strong cigars. I also love mild cigars. For example, I dearly miss the old Cifuentes line that appeared in the mid 1990s, they were creamy, nutty, and we like butter in your mouth - but they were mild.

I personally find CCs and NCs in my humidor, and wouldn't toss any of them out. They are there because I like them. I have tastes and times for every bandwidth on the taste spectrum.

Of course it all boils down to this simple fact. Each of us has different tastes, be it cigars and just about anything else. Personally, I couldn't drive a Jaguar, I have always thought they were just to _____ ugly. I could care less what other merits they had. I was even offered a ride in one, just to show me - I couldn't get it it. But, that's just my personal opinion. I took the opportunity though to take the Lotus Esprit for a drive. And I loved being behind the wheel of a 1944 Wily's Jeep. I also think the 'vettes after about 1964 look like $#!+.

I originally asked the question, to get people to talk about what it was that they liked about their favorite cigars - whether CC or NC (and I must say, I don't like lumping all NCs together as there are too many variations that way).

Too often, people get into a rut and do things without thinking about what it is that drives them. Big -vs- small RG cigars, short -vs- long cigars, Scotch -vs- bourbon, 10lbs of lasgna -vs- a 16oz porterhouse, and on and on.

I look forward to herfing with different guys because it is an opportunity to see what makes them tick. Passing cigars and getting opinions on the tastes of them while it is happening is so cool. Likes and dislike vary so greatly, and it's what makes this hobby so wonderful.

Personally, I'm glad y'all don't think that my favorites are the best. If you did, they'd never go on sale, and I cannot afford them if they're not. So, thanks for liking different things. :D

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[G G]

If I were you, I'd move...


...

...

...

... to another zip code, with no forwarding address. ;s :r
Have to agree with my brother on this one, he is a man of God and he knows things, plus Scott is the heavy hitter that the heavy hitters look up to.:tu