R.I.P. Hav-A-Tampa, Cigar City loses another one. [Archive]

rizzle

06-24-2009, 09:28 AM

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00073/A4S_cigarlabel062409_73500d.jpg

TAMPA — They made their first cigar in Tampa in 1902.

In July, they will make their last.

A piece of Tampa history was extinguished Tuesday when the parent company of Hav-A-Tampa cigars announced it will close its local production plant, near E Broadway Avenue, leaving almost 500 employees jobless.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article1012864.ece

replicant_argent

06-24-2009, 09:43 AM

and the impact to the cigar economy begins?
<deleted>

<deleted>

CBI_2

06-24-2009, 10:35 AM

The dominos start falling. :mad:

BlackDog

06-24-2009, 11:07 AM

I was going to just post this. Not a brand I smoked, but I hate to see anyone in our hobby go out of business.

csbrewfisher

06-24-2009, 11:32 AM

rizzle

06-24-2009, 11:34 AM

macpappy

06-24-2009, 12:14 PM

While I don't believe it was just the tax increase that caused the factory to close, it was the voters who have allowed the tax increase to happen.

alley00p

06-24-2009, 12:22 PM

While I don't believe it was just the tax increase that caused the factory to close, it was the voters who have allowed the tax increase to happen.

Yep, they wanted "hope and change"....

now they're hopin they'll still have a job in the near future...
and all they have in their pockets is change!

:c

:dance:

csbrewfisher

06-24-2009, 12:27 PM

While I don't believe it was just the tax increase that caused the factory to close, it was the voters who have allowed the tax increase to happen.

While I don't mean to be confrontational bro, the Altadis rep quoted in the article said the tax WAS a factor. If you choose not to believe that, then it's up to you I guess. What would it take to convince you?

Dunkel

06-24-2009, 12:30 PM

Yep Obama's speech should have been "You need to HOPE you'll have any CHANGE left. Tax you blind? YES WE CAN!"

Benwoo

06-24-2009, 12:37 PM

I started on these and Backwoods. Not bad if ya need a quick kick around smoke. Unfortunately I think Backwoods will disappear as well due to the new FDA deal :(

macpappy

06-24-2009, 03:46 PM

While I don't mean to be confrontational bro, the Altadis rep quoted in the article said the tax WAS a factor. If you choose not to believe that, then it's up to you I guess. What would it take to convince you?

Semantics I guess. What I meant to say was I didn't believe that the tax was the ONLY factor. I'm sure it was a factor, I just believe that there may have been other factors in the decision also - like an mandatory increase in the minimum wage, etc.

I didn't find you confrontational. You just pointed out the lack of clarity in my statement.

Scottw

06-24-2009, 03:58 PM

My dad used to smoke these when he bowled. I used to remember the smell and would even try to take a pull when he'd rest it in the ashtray. I was probably 10 at the time.

The Poet

06-24-2009, 04:26 PM

I haven't Had-A-Tampa in forty years, and won't miss it if another forty passes. And I understand the economics involved, though I won't comment of the politics - too testy an issues for all the testosterone here. Still, it's sad to see Ybor-tions like this occur.

Drazzil

06-24-2009, 05:44 PM

I saw this on Drudge earlier. The first cigar I smoked was a Hav-A-Tampa, so I hate to see this.

Did you notice the jobs are being moved out of the country? Altadis will still supply the product, but the reduced foreign wage margin will cover the SCHIP increase. The headline should read "Obama Administration Sends Jobs Overseas", because that's exactly what happened.

How's that hope and change working out for you?

Thats a vast oversimplification, and out right wrong in the extreme. The reason Hav-a-Tampa failed is because of the bad economy. The bad economy that we are suffering through was a direct result of the failure of not one, but MANY administrations on both sides of the isle, from the seeds of the disaster planted in the Carter administration, to the spendthrift attitude of the Bush administration and a whole lot of screwing the pooch in between.

I'm not going to elaborate on my grand theory of how things have gotten to the point that they are in, because this reply is likely to be deleted, what I will say is that the middle class worldwide, which is the driving force of any economy, has taken a pounding at the hands of the multinational corporations and the NAFTA agreements, and that, my friends is the cause of this whole problem. Obama is merely a politician, part of the same system that has systematically failed the American public for the last fourty years.

The system is the same four hundred pound gorilla giving it to you the wrong way, except the Democrats tend to wear masks and whisper "for the children" while doing it.

BigAl_SC

06-24-2009, 06:02 PM

They will be missed. When I was 20 or so I dated the granddaughter of a roller there. I'm sure she is long retired but like the saying goes 'rolled on thighs of Cuban women' brings back memories of the granddaughters thighs:dr.

I guess those were my first hand rolled cigars also.

Tio Gato

06-24-2009, 06:24 PM

Thats a vast oversimplification, and out right wrong in the extreme. The reason Hav-a-Tampa failed is because of the bad economy. The bad economy that we are suffering through was a direct result of the failure of not one, but MANY administrations on both sides of the isle, from the seeds of the disaster planted in the Carter administration, to the spendthrift attitude of the Bush administration and a whole lot of screwing the pooch in between.

I'm not going to elaborate on my grand theory of how things have gotten to the point that they are in, because this reply is likely to be deleted, what I will say is that the middle class worldwide, which is the driving force of any economy, has taken a pounding at the hands of the multinational corporations and the NAFTA agreements, and that, my friends is the cause of this whole problem. Obama is merely a politician, part of the same system that has systematically failed the American public for the last fourty years.

The system is the same four hundred pound gorilla giving it to you the wrong way, except the Democrats tend to wear masks and whisper "for the children" while doing it.

Dude, the company didn't fail, they found a labor market that would keep them in business. A labor market that happens to be a part of the USA.
(There's more than just the 50 states!) Yes, it is a shame that people in Tampa lost their jobs. Is that something new in the cigar world of Tampa?
Ahhh, not by a long shot. Read some history.

Despite being a very conservative right wing kinda guy, I think your comment about the gorilla and democrats engaged in unnatural relations is in poor taste and shows your ignorance.

Sober up and then respond in a responsible way to a BOTL's post that is about cigars and not your ranting political stuff that does not belong here.

G G

06-24-2009, 06:28 PM

And it prolly appears that Swisher International is soon to follow. My step son and my step daughter's husband are currently employed by Swisher in Jacksonville. With the FDA and no flavored rule that will either cause Swisher to close or move offshore as well, because according to my stepson 90% to 95% of their sales are flavored cigars, and I aint no economist but I don't blieve you can overcome that. So it appears to me instead of creating jobs the current administration and congress are destroying them.

SeanGAR

06-24-2009, 06:41 PM

So it appears to me instead of creating jobs the current administration and congress are destroying them.

Don't forget too that jobs created in the last 20-30 years in the US are often service jobs and not blue collar jobs, which are the backbone of the country.

Looking at this graph, you gotta wonder what happened between 01 and 09.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/10yrjobgrowth.png

G G

06-24-2009, 06:44 PM

Aint gettin in no pissin contest here, I said the current administration and CONGRESS who are made up of both sides. If we continue to look backwards to go forwards we aint going too far IMHO.:tu

Tio Gato

06-24-2009, 06:50 PM

There's only one truth,

Go Gators!

Sorry, couldn't resist the thread-jack!:tu

TripleF

06-24-2009, 07:37 PM

It's sad to see any part of what 'was' be relocated. And unforunately there's not much of anything of what 'was' left in Tampa/Ybor.

SeanGAR

06-24-2009, 07:42 PM

Aint gettin in no pissin contest here, I said the current administration and CONGRESS who are made up of both sides. If we continue to look backwards to go forwards we aint going too far IMHO.:tu

I see no leadership or real action on either side of the fence to stop the flow of blue collar jobs overseas. I really don't like protectionist tariffs much, I'd rather see reduction of regulations and costs here that choke businesses. But I'm damned tired of seeing CEOs get big salaries and bonuses for increasing profits, when they do so by opening plants in Mexico, India or Asia and cutting American jobs. You do need to look backwards to see what got us into this mess to understand how to get out. This isn't a problem with the current administration .. lord knows you can see what a royal FU the last bunch did as far as jobs are concerned. Let me be clear here, neither party seems to give a crap and are providing/have provided nothing but lip service to the problem. Its damned time we hold them accountable.

pnoon

06-24-2009, 07:42 PM

Yep Obama's speech should have been "You need to HOPE you'll have any CHANGE left. Tax you blind? YES WE CAN!"

Thats a vast oversimplification, and out right wrong in the extreme. The reason Hav-a-Tampa failed is because of the bad economy. The bad economy that we are suffering through was a direct result of the failure of not one, but MANY administrations on both sides of the isle, from the seeds of the disaster planted in the Carter administration, to the spendthrift attitude of the Bush administration and a whole lot of screwing the pooch in between.

I'm not going to elaborate on my grand theory of how things have gotten to the point that they are in, because this reply is likely to be deleted, what I will say is that the middle class worldwide, which is the driving force of any economy, has taken a pounding at the hands of the multinational corporations and the NAFTA agreements, and that, my friends is the cause of this whole problem. Obama is merely a politician, part of the same system that has systematically failed the American public for the last fourty years.

The system is the same four hundred pound gorilla giving it to you the wrong way, except the Democrats tend to wear masks and whisper "for the children" while doing it.
Please steer clear of the political statements.
Debate the economy and the specifics of Hav-A-Tampa and cigars.

SmokinApe

06-24-2009, 07:43 PM

I'd like to take this opportunity to spew some hate at the bleeding heart liberals but I am an adult who follows the rules...

:rlz

pnoon

06-24-2009, 07:46 PM

I'd like to take this opportunity to spew some hate at the bleeding heart liberals but I am an adult who follows the rules...

:rlz

But you just had to take a jab anyway? :rolleyes:

SmokinApe

06-24-2009, 07:52 PM

But you just had to take a jab anyway? :rolleyes:

No... I didn't see your post when I posted. People here remind others of the rules daily, I didn't think it was wrong to do...

pnoon

06-24-2009, 07:54 PM

No... I didn't see your post when I posted. People here remind others of the rules daily, I didn't think it was wrong to do...

Reminding others of the rules is fine.

macpappy

06-24-2009, 09:10 PM

There's only one truth,

Go Gators!

Sorry, couldn't resist the thread-jack!:tu

Since you started it.....

Geaux Tigers! National Champs once again.

Wolfgang

06-24-2009, 09:13 PM

How sad. Eventually there wont me much left in the Cigar City....

macpappy

06-24-2009, 09:21 PM

I see no leadership or real action on either side of the fence to stop the flow of blue collar jobs overseas. I really don't like protectionist tariffs much, I'd rather see reduction of regulations and costs here that choke businesses. But I'm damned tired of seeing CEOs get big salaries and bonuses for increasing profits, when they do so by opening plants in Mexico, India or Asia and cutting American jobs. You do need to look backwards to see what got us into this mess to understand how to get out. This isn't a problem with the current administration .. lord knows you can see what a royal FU the last bunch did as far as jobs are concerned. Let me be clear here, neither party seems to give a crap and are providing/have provided nothing but lip service to the problem. Its damned time we hold them accountable.

What's that quote?
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The problem I see is that politicians view the past as the past and are too concerned with getting enough votes in the next election to worry about really doing anything to fix the problems that they themselves have created. And that is the biggest problem this country faces. We have all voted for people who's sole interest is staying in power by making promises they either can't or shouldn't keep. We only have ourselves to blame.

rizzle

06-25-2009, 09:02 AM

It's sad to see any part of what 'was' be relocated. And unforunately there's not much of anything of what 'was' left in Tampa/Ybor.

Exactly. That was my whole point in posting this, not to get into some political bugaloo. I believe the article says the only one left will be the J.C. Newman Cigar Co.

Catfish

06-25-2009, 09:39 AM

Nice. ANOTHER U.S. manufacturer moves their production facility out of the country. :fl:bh:fu2:c

CBI_2

06-25-2009, 10:33 AM

Nice. ANOTHER U.S. manufacturer moves their production facility out of the country. :fl:bh:fu2:c
Forced out by the 2nd highest coporate income tax rates in the world along with all the other legal and other tax B.S. thrown on top.

RaiderinKS

06-25-2009, 12:00 PM

Don't forget too that jobs created in the last 20-30 years in the US are often service jobs and not blue collar jobs, which are the backbone of the country.

Looking at this graph, you gotta wonder what happened between 01 and 09.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/10yrjobgrowth.png

No, that makes me wonder where you got the graph. Nothing like posting information without any reference whatsoever.

RaiderinKS

06-25-2009, 12:08 PM

Forced out by the 2nd highest coporate income tax rates in the world along with all the other legal and other tax B.S. thrown on top.

Source?

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for the folks that lost their jobs, but I have a hard time believing that blue collar America is where you will find the beef. In our society where we have grown accustomed to competing with the guy next door over everything, we have become an unholy consumer of goods. The overconsumption of goods means we need more income. When we all fight for more income, eventually none of us can afford to compete for our own goods, so we have to buy them cheaper in an effort to stay competitive.

For example, I can't believe the number of yard care tools I have had to buy since last summer when I bought my first home. It is downright obnoxious how many things I need to buy for $30 a pop that I will use once or twice a year. And you know what, all of my neighbors have the same junk that they only use sometimes as well. We have amassed lots of tools that we sparingly use, which is a waste of our resources. It would make more sense to have a community locker where we all invest and buy tools, and we can check things out.

If we weren't all so blindingly stupid about how much we own in our society, we could afford to buy our own goods.

csbrewfisher

06-25-2009, 01:05 PM

Thats a vast oversimplification, and out right wrong in the extreme. The reason Hav-a-Tampa failed is because of the bad economy.

Respectfully...Hav-a-Tampa has not failed. Altadis is moving operations offshore. One will continue to find Hav-a-Tampas at the local 7-11.

I may have over simplified, as most of us do on this forum, because treatise-length posts aren't read...like most bills in congress.

You may find THIS over simplified too. SCHIP was almost, if not the first order of business on the new Democrat super-majority agenda. They railroaded it, and the Republicrats couldn't stop it, not that they tried all that hard. During the 5 minutes allowed for debate (hyperbole) it was stated that the tax would hit the cheapest cigar brands hardest, and that was echoed across this forum and several others, as well as on many retailer sites. That prediction has come true.

Deny to your heart's content, but if not for SCHIP, Hav-a-Tampa would not be moving.

SeanGAR

06-25-2009, 02:16 PM

No, that makes me wonder where you got the graph. Nothing like posting information without any reference whatsoever.

I notice you have nothing to refute information shown in the graph.

http://www.ourfuture.org/files/images/Job_Growth_2_4.jpg

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/Job_Growth_2_4.jpg

This is a slightly different graph from a different source. You see the same thing ... last 8 years were crap for job growth. Do I blame the previous administration? Not solely, Clinton made enough bad decisions to share more than his portion of the blame.

As for the original graph: here is a hint .. if you see text in a document, google it in quotation marks (i.e., "10-year job growth vanishes") ... if you do this, exactly 1 page shows up. Voila, your source.

http://www.philstockworld.com/2009/06/25/decade-of-lost-jobs/

Starscream

06-25-2009, 02:29 PM

looking at this graph, you gotta wonder what happened between 01 and 09.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/10yrjobgrowth.png

http://www.ourfuture.org/files/images/job_growth_2_4.jpg

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/job_growth_2_4.jpg

http://www.philstockworld.com/2009/06/25/decade-of-lost-jobs/

nafta?

SeanGAR

06-25-2009, 03:03 PM

nafta?

I hate NAFTA and giving communist red china most favored trading status. We need to keep the good jobs here. Free trade looks fine, but if the other side of the fence pays 1.00 and hour, how can we compete here? American workers are incredibly productive, but not THAT productive to make up 20 times wage difference.

RaiderinKS makes some damned good points about the consumerism we see today.

Hell, my kids ask for iphones and they're 12. When I was their age, I was happy to eat pigs in blankets and KD in front of a snowy B&W TV. A cell phone was out of the question (even if it was invented back then).

I remember a number of years ago Walmart advertised that products were made in the USA. When was the last time we saw that?

Starscream

06-25-2009, 03:34 PM

I remember a number of years ago Walmart advertised that products were made in the USA. When was the last time we saw that?

It's been a while.

The Poet

06-25-2009, 04:15 PM

So somebody here tell me, 'cause I'm stupid - what's the difference between buying a pair of socks made in China and buying a box of sticks made in Cuba?

Paradox? I'm easily confused. :confused:

Drazzil

06-25-2009, 04:24 PM

One is an enemy of America and goes to feed the coffers of the communist party and the other.... oh... :ss:fu

Starscream

06-25-2009, 04:26 PM

One is an enemy of America and goes to feed the coffers of the communist party and the other.... oh... :ss:fu

Ssshhhhh....
Don't tell anybody.;)

jjirons69

06-25-2009, 05:27 PM

Wow. I have a buddy that will be devestated. He's been smoking those things forever.

CBI_2

06-25-2009, 08:01 PM

Source?

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for the folks that lost their jobs, but I have a hard time believing that blue collar America is where you will find the beef. In our society where we have grown accustomed to competing with the guy next door over everything, we have become an unholy consumer of goods. The overconsumption of goods means we need more income. When we all fight for more income, eventually none of us can afford to compete for our own goods, so we have to buy them cheaper in an effort to stay competitive.

For example, I can't believe the number of yard care tools I have had to buy since last summer when I bought my first home. It is downright obnoxious how many things I need to buy for $30 a pop that I will use once or twice a year. And you know what, all of my neighbors have the same junk that they only use sometimes as well. We have amassed lots of tools that we sparingly use, which is a waste of our resources. It would make more sense to have a community locker where we all invest and buy tools, and we can check things out.

If we weren't all so blindingly stupid about how much we own in our society, we could afford to buy our own goods.

Read Here http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1466.html and here http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/23561.html

As businesses leave one state to go to another due to state corporate tax structure so to do they leave for another country where they have a more favorable climate for business.

BTW The sources are easy enough to Google should you so desire. :ss