Honest iTrader ratings

[mikeyj23]

Please give honest iTrader ratings after trading with someone. The system is in place so we can feel comfortable sending packages to people with whom we've never interacted. If I look on someone's rating page and see that they have 10 positive trades, then I should be able to assume that they're a responsible trader.

A negative rating certainly throws a red flag, but isn't that the point? That red flag could keep someone after you from having an equally negative experience. We've all seen the dog owners who start coddling and petting their dog after it does something bad; the dog will absolutely behave the same way again. If someone does a poor job on their end of a trade but still gets a positive rating with a cutesy comment, they certainly won't think twice about doing the exact same thing the next time.

I'm not the one to define what justifies a neutral or negative feedback rating, but I would hope that a positive rating represents such things as:

Meaningful, prompt communication
Honesty
Being upfront about shipping times
DC#s
Safe packaging
Equitable trading
Willingness to work things out if the other party is anything less than happy


I hope those that I've traded with have left honest ratings and comments. If not, I ask that you PM me and we can work things out.

A neutral or negative rating doesn't prohibit someone from trading, it's simply a heads up or warning for future traders. Please don't be afraid to use it if it's necessary, and definitely if there are any questions about it PM a moderator.

[Tenor CS]

I have also found it helpful to politely ask for references if their trading background is non-existent or minimal. I only have 1 trade on here, and I only had 3 at CS. However, I feel that a bunch of the guys on here, who I have met/herf'd with in person, could throw out a quick "Tenor CS is a stand-up guy" that could ease a trader/seller's uncertainties.

I have seen this happen in other threads where guys who were new to the forum, but not necessarily to the cigar world, were posting WTS threads after less than 10 posts. Usually, these were friends of established members, who could then vouch for them.

[Tenor CS]

Bump for MikeyJ23. Since I responded so quickly, I think this important post got bumped off the first page and lost in the shuffle.

[PeteSB75]

I'd also add an additional point. If you have a positive trading experience, leave trader feedback. If you have a negative experience, leave trader feedback. If you get cigars from a PIF or a MAW thread, leave trader feedback. If you buy or sell cigars in the WTB, WTS forums, leave trader feedback.

Seeing a trend here? :ss
Let everyone else on the forum know that things went well. If they didn't send a PM and, if there is no response, then leave feedback, negative or neutral.

[Tenor CS]

And although iTrader should not be used for bombs, I always make a point of thanking someone who bombed me, either in person, via PM, or via a visitor message on their profile page. And if you have pics, by all means, post a thread. It's always fun to see the generosity of our members.

[SilverFox]

Thanks for the reminder just caught up a few trades that I had done

[SmokeyJoe]

Hey Michael... sounds like you had a bad experience. Did somebody here burn you?

[Skywalker]

Right is right!!!

Thanks MikeyJ23 for saying what needed to be said!!!:tu

[pnoon]

Hey Michael... sounds like you had a bad experience. Did somebody here burn you?

Joe - I might suggest you look at Trader Feedback. Aside from that, any "discussion" should be done via PM.

Thanks.

[rizzle]

Hey Michael... sounds like you had a bad experience. Did somebody here burn you?

My thoughts exactly.

[DBall]

And although iTrader should not be used for bombs, I always make a point of thanking someone who bombed me, either in person, via PM, or via a visitor message on their profile page. And if you have pics, by all means, post a thread. It's always fun to see the generosity of our members.

:tpd:

[Da Klugs]

There are situations where you are forced to give negative feedback to a trader based upon their actions. Please do as it helps protect the entire community. There are rare situations when unwarranted retaliatory feedback is given back based upon your doing the right thing and posting negative feedback. Unwarranted retaliatory trader feedback will be removed by the admins upon request.

[JJG]

Hey Michael... sounds like you had a bad experience. Did somebody here burn you?

more like a few of us started talking and found out we all had the same experience. I'll just leave it at that.

but Mikey has brought up an important point. I'm sure that most everyone here has had nothing but positive trading experiences. however, if a transaction doesn't go as planned and can't be resolved via PM, it's important to leave honest feedback so others don't run into the same issue.

[HK3-]

Hi five for this post Mikey! :tu

[Skywalker]

This brings up another question:

Is it possible to change positive trader feedback to negative or neutral, once it has been given???:confused:

[SmokeyJoe]

Joe - I might suggest you look at Trader Feedback. Aside from that, any "discussion" should be done via PM.

Thanks.

Thanks, Peter. I really wasn't looking to "out" anybody. My response was more one of surprise. I have been very fortunate I guess with my dealings here - and in our former home.

I know this little community is something of a microcosm of our society - but I have to say, there does seem to be a difference in the type of people I run into here - in a positive way. :ss

You are an example of that, pnoon. Thanks for your excellent mod work. :tu

[shadow king]

Thats sucks that everyone has a bad experience with the person involved. Without getting into specifics, I almost bought something off of the person but something just didn't feel right about it and I didn't pull the trigger. In hindsight, it was the right decision.

This is a very good thread to have. I think mikey deserves some rep bump for posting it!

[floydp]

Trader feedback is a very important tool here and don't hesitate to use it. Good or bad it could help the next SOTL/BOTL. If bad TF and then a pm to one of us and not a thread calling the person out. We don't do that here.

[neoflex]

I'd also add an additional point. If you have a positive trading experience, leave trader feedback. If you have a negative experience, leave trader feedback. If you get cigars from a PIF or a MAW thread, leave trader feedback. If you buy or sell cigars in the WTB, WTS forums, leave trader feedback.

Seeing a trend here? :ss
Let everyone else on the forum know that things went well. If they didn't send a PM and, if there is no response, then leave feedback, negative or neutral.

+1, I have had trades go smooth and never got feedback. Feel awkward PMing about it as it should be left whether the trade etc was good, bad or indifferent. You shouldn't have to ask for it. Ohh well! Chict happens.

[The Professor]

This brings up another question:

Is it possible to change positive trader feedback to negative or neutral, once it has been given???:confused:

Just out of curiosity, why would you need to do that (hypothetically)?

This makes me think it's important to say: *don't* leave feedback until your trade is complete.

For example, if you're a seller, don't leave feedback until you're paid. If you're trading, don't leave feedback until you receive your end.

[neoflex]

Only reason I can think of is for retaliatory feedback. You hold up your end but the other party does not and in retaliation for leaving neg. feedback they hit you with the same. Seen it happen a million times on Flea Bay. Prob. not as likely here but I am sure in time it will if it has not already.

[Skywalker]

This brings up another question:

Is it possible to change positive trader feedback to negative or neutral, once it has been given???:confused:

Just out of curiosity, why would you need to do that (hypothetically)?

You know you take the cigars for a little test drive and everything is fine, then you make the commitment and you find you purchased a lemon!!!:D

Honestly, I was just curious if it was possible.

[Waynegro1]

Well said, Michael. I couldn't say it better myself. :tu
Trader Feedback is a valuable tool for us to look at before committing to a trade, sale etc.
I'm Sorry you had a bad experience.

[Mr Edmundo]

Funny timing on this post. I have had a very bad experience on the other site. The guy was fairly new and had 3 positive tfs. I have always had good experiences, so I didn't even think anything bad can happen. Well I never received my sticks and am out $100 US ($125 Canadian). So I pm'd one of the other members who expressed interest in the cigars on the same WTS post. He replied that he did get his cigars, but had also received a couple of pms from other members warning him about dealing with this guy.

Similar thing happened on this forum. I was interested in a WTS offer, but there were some questions that were posted on some of the first few sales. I pm'd 2 of the buyers and the trades were very dodgy. Yet nothing but positives on the tf.

So that brings me to my point. If you look at almost all member's tf, they are 100% positive. And I truly believe the vast majority of us are good traders. But surly they are not all 100% smooth. I think, myself included, that we are reluctant to give neg tf, even if our experience is not 100% satisfactory. In my examples, there obviously were some issues with the guys I was dealing with, but there was absolutely no indication of such on his tf! So, if there were some indication, this may have prevented me a lot of aggrivation and some money.
So, I think we should make every effort to correct issues and problems through pms, but if that has failed, it should be on record in the feedback.

To be honest, I would like to be able to do more than just leave negative feedback to a guy who has deliberately scammed you and others. A separate section where one can vent. But I can see where that may not be the best idea.
You just feel so helpless when you've been had.

[Skywalker]

My solution:
Noobs (especially ones asking for a trade) need to send me their package first. I will then send my equitable end once theirs has arrived.:2

Anyone have anything to add to this process???

[Nabinger16]

I like the fact the TOE are willing to remove obvious retaliatory negative feedback. I feel one reason people leave false positive feedback is to keep from receiving retaliatory feedback. Which we all know on flea bay, is a killer of an honest persons reputation.

One thing I've wondered about the trader feedback here at CA is the score displayed under the user name only consists of unique trades compared to total trades. I feel the total trades better represents an individuals history "at a glance" compared to unique trades. I understand why ebay does it, but CA being a smaller community it would be easier to police any gross abuse of the system.

[Mr Edmundo]

I like the fact the TOE are willing to remove obvious retaliatory negative feedback. I feel one reason people leave false positive feedback is to keep from receiving retaliatory feedback. Which we all know on flea bay, is a killer of an honest persons reputation.

One thing I've wondered about the trader feedback here at CA is the score displayed under the user name only consists of unique trades compared to total trades. I feel the total trades better represents an individuals history "at a glance" compared to unique trades. I understand why ebay does it, but CA being a smaller community it would be easier to police any gross abuse of the system.

:tpd: I totally agree with that comment. It is reassurring that the mods are keeping an eye out for this type of thing. Something that I am not all that confident in at the other place.

I'm just not understanding the distiction between total trades and unique trades.

[AD720]

:tpd: I totally agree with that comment. It is reassurring that the mods are keeping an eye out for this type of thing. Something that I am not all that confident in at the other place.

I'm just not understanding the distiction between total trades and unique trades.

Unique trades:

You and I trade 5 times and I leave postive feedback 5 times. You only have 1 trader feedback from me.

[Nabinger16]

Unique trades:

You and I trade 5 times and I leave postive feedback 5 times. You only have 1 trader feedback from me.

Exactly! :tu

[Mr Edmundo]

Unique trades:

You and I trade 5 times and I leave postive feedback 5 times. You only have 1 trader feedback from me.

Thanks for clearing that up Andrew. I do agree then, that total trades should be tracked.
BTW, I'm enjoying those cigars.:ss

[Waynegro1]

Thanks for clearing that up Andrew. I do agree then, that total trades should be tracked.
BTW, I'm enjoying those cigars.:ss

I agree as well. I understand why, but it would be nice to have an idea how many trades a person has at a glance. I know we can click on the TF and see the history, but I have to admit, I usually just look at the number under their avatar.

[DBall]

One thing I've wondered about the trader feedback here at CA is the score displayed under the user name only consists of unique trades compared to total trades.

Julian (mmblz) can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is a bug in/function of vBulletin software and can't be changed.

[icehog3]

Julian (mmblz) can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is a bug in/function of vBulletin software and can't be changed.

Even if it could be changed, I would be against changing it. You could get two buddies trading 20 times and getting a +20 rating, yet no one else has ever dealt with them. :2

[Volt]

Even if it could be changed, I would be against changing it. You could get two buddies trading 20 times and getting a +20 rating, yet no one else has ever dealt with them. :2

Ok, I now see a little logic in your post, but on the other hand say you and I trade 4 good times and then one of us gets the shaft. Will the negative for whomever be reflected? I'm less worried about two solid BOTLs "running up" their count with valid trades than I am a ruffian type goping under the radar.

Gotta say, back in a different place SmokeyJoe traded with this Noob with 30 or so posts and no trades. His box got to me before my box to him. Damn fine example to live up to.

[romwarrior]

Even if it could be changed, I would be against changing it. You could get two buddies trading 20 times and getting a +20 rating, yet no one else has ever dealt with them. :2

Or one guy doing phantom trades with a fake account.

[Mr Edmundo]

Even if it could be changed, I would be against changing it. You could get two buddies trading 20 times and getting a +20 rating, yet no one else has ever dealt with them. :2

Or one guy doing phantom trades with a fake account.

Never thought of either of these possibilities. Good points.

[icehog3]

Ok, I now see a little logic in your post, but on the other hand say you and I trade 4 good times and then one of us gets the shaft. Will the negative for whomever be reflected? I'm less worried about two solid BOTLs "running up" their count with valid trades than I am a ruffian type goping under the radar.

Gotta say, back in a different place SmokeyJoe traded with this Noob with 30 or so posts and no trades. His box got to me before my box to him. Damn fine example to live up to.

It would. :tu

And I have to agree regarding Smokey Joe, first class all the way. :)

[ca21455]

Don't usually look at the ratings when sending cigars. Just send them cause I want to...

[mikeyj23]

Don't usually look at the ratings when sending cigars. Just send them cause I want to...

I send them cause I want to as well. I don't, however, want to send cigars to someone who's screwed another BOTL over before. That's what we have trader ratings for.

[poriggity]

Great post! Very important.
Scott

[dentonparrots]

..