Siglo Limited Reserve

[Nabinger16]

I went to the ol' mailbox today and found a new Mike's Cigar catalog. On the back cover I see the new "Siglo Limited Reserve" by Altadis. Is it just me or did ALtadis go out of their way to make this fancy new cigar look as close to a box of Cohiba's as possible. Not to mention calling it a "Siglo."

I don't know about the rest of you, but this kind of marketing completely turns me off to a cigar. I can pretty safely say I will never smoke one just because of its marketing.

[skullnrose]

I noticed that as well. Not a cigar I'd buy anyway.

[JJG]

ok that's pretty funny.

We all know that several NC cigar companies are making lots of dough selling cigars simply because the share the names of their famous Cuban counterparts, and I was thinking of what might unfold if Cubans became legal. I assume those companies could make a good case that they have the legal rights in the US to certain brand names and such.

nevertheless, wouldn't it be counterproductive of these companies to force Habanos to change the names of their most famous brands? considering they make their money selling red dot "Cohibos" etc...?

[troutbreath]

In some cases, the same company owns both names. It's the other ones where the legal battles should be fun to watch.

Saw these sticks prominently in my regulary B&M last week. Did a double-take, and then kept walking on by.

[Tio Gato]

I've read that the American companies that have trademarked Cuban brands will be the ones who have the rights to sell the genuine CC's in the US.
I don't mind someone selling the same brands in America that they lost in Cuba when nationalization occurred. But it does bug me when companies go out of their way to market look a like cigars. I don't think they're fooling many people, especially people on this board.

Siglo was a brand out during the boom and it failed. I can't understand why so many old failed brands make a comeback. Tamborils are out again, Free Cuba, Fighting ****, Aristoff, there seems to be no end of recycled brands. Are new brands so unaccepted by cigar smokers that manufacturers are better off selling an old failed brand? I just can't imagine that's a good marketing idea.

[jitzy]

Now don't get me wrong I'm nor a huge fan of altidis, there are some I do like but I do love tatuaje cigars which I'm sure one or two other guys on here like also but I've seen guys complain (maybe complain is a strong word but at the least have something to say about these smokes) the siglos but never have I seen a thread complainig pete j. is using a Cuban brand name or copying a label. Like I said I do love Pete's cigars there some of my favorites it's just funny the double standard in the cigar industry.

[Nabinger16]

I understand the NC market using the same name and very similar bands as its CC counterparts. That doesn't bother me because legally there's two specific market areas for the past 47 years.

The Siglos remind me of the cheap knock off crap you find being peddled on the streets of most of the big cities. Sort of like Oakey glasses or daiads shoes. I'm sure it doesn't fool anyone but it's still obvious the effect they are going for.

[Clampdown]

Pete Johnson is notorious for doing everything he can to follow in line with HSA, but this is unbelievable.

http://www.mikescigars.com/images/images_prod/SI4.jpg

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Pete Johnson is notorious for doing everything he can to follow in line with HSA, but this is unbelievable.

http://www.mikescigars.com/images/images_prod/SI4.jpg

:confused:

[Garbandz]

Beware of counterfeit Siglo's!!!!

[Texan in Mexico]

I saw these a couple weeks ago too.

The guys at the shop said they are just ok.

An ok stick at that price is not on my radar.

[SmokinApe]

I am not the the type of person to judge a book by it cover, but that is a pretty bad cover... To me a "poser" is a person who tries to look like someone they are not, this product, to me, is trying to look like something it is not...

[leafandale]

Pete Johnson is notorious for doing everything he can to follow in line with HSA, but this is unbelievable.


I just wanted some clarification on your statement. Siglo IS NOT a Pete Johnson/Tatuaje brand cigar. It is made by Altadis (who also has Montecristo, Romey y Julieta, Onyx, etc...).

[poriggity]

Good call Mike.. I don't see Pete doing something like this. I've met Pete, and he seems way too cool to do something this dumb :D
Scott

[SmokinApe]

I can't speak for Clamp but I am pretty sure he was commenting on Pete after someone else did as a continuation of the prior post...

I don't think Pete would do something as stupid as the siglo cigars, but without a doubt he tries to perpetrate his cigars as made in the Cuban tradition, packages them like Cuban cigars and then make's claims that the Cubans are using the same blend for every marca... So, like I said he isn't a stupid as the siglo people he's very smart essentially passing his cigars off as Cuban or better...

[Footbag]

I can't speak for Clamp but I am pretty sure he was commenting on Pete after someone else did as a continuation of the prior post...

I don't think Pete would do something as stupid as the siglo cigars, but without a doubt he tries to perpetrate his cigars as made in the Cuban tradition, packages them like Cuban cigars and then make's claims that the Cubans are using the same blend for every marca... So, like I said he isn't a stupid as the siglo people he's very smart essentially passing his cigars off as Cuban or better...

I think thats the truth with all of DPG's cigars. I don't think he knows any other way to do it. I'd consider it cheesy if the cigars weren't so damn good!

[SmokinApe]

I think thats the truth with all of DPG's cigars. I don't think he knows any other way to do it. I'd consider it cheesy if the cigars weren't so damn good!

Agreed, and I think that is a bit of a double standard. If you do it and your cigars suck then you suck too... If you do it and your cigars are great then you cool...

[SmokinCozy]

Come up with your own name and let the cigar speak for itself. :2

[jitzy]

Agreed, and I think that is a bit of a double standard. If you do it and your cigars suck then you suck too... If you do it and your cigars are great then you cool...

Thats pretty much what I was trying to say in a much shorter clearer statement.

[Snake Hips]

ok that's pretty funny.

We all know that several NC cigar companies are making lots of dough selling cigars simply because the share the names of their famous Cuban counterparts, and I was thinking of what might unfold if Cubans became legal. I assume those companies could make a good case that they have the legal rights in the US to certain brand names and such.

nevertheless, wouldn't it be counterproductive of these companies to force Habanos to change the names of their most famous brands? considering they make their money selling red dot "Cohibos" etc...?
Imperial Tobacco owns many of the Cuban brand names as well as the non-Cuban brand names. General Cigar owns the rest. Imperial Tobacco > General Cigar. It won't be much of an ordeal; General will make some kind of financial settlement and that's that; nobody's going to change names.

As for the Pete Johnson discussion...is it really a double standard? He is blending, rolling and packaging his cigars in the Cuban style, but what's wrong with that? That's the original, old way to do it regardless of where it came from. He's not copying any brands with the same packaging, art, bands, vitola names, etc. or claiming to have 150 years of history that he doesn't like Altadis and General do. He's not copying anything of theirs really, he's just doing it in their style. The closest thing Pete does to that is La Riqueza, but that's not a current Cuban brand anyway.

[Texan in Mexico]

Well said...

Imperial Tobacco owns many of the Cuban brand names as well as the non-Cuban brand names. General Cigar owns the rest. Imperial Tobacco > General Cigar. It won't be much of an ordeal; General will make some kind of financial settlement and that's that; nobody's going to change names.

As for the Pete Johnson discussion...is it really a double standard? He is blending, rolling and packaging his cigars in the Cuban style, but what's wrong with that? That's the original, old way to do it regardless of where it came from. He's not copying any brands with the same packaging, art, bands, vitola names, etc. or claiming to have 150 years of history that he doesn't like Altadis and General do. He's not copying anything of theirs really, he's just doing it in their style. The closest thing Pete does to that is La Riqueza, but that's not a current Cuban brand anyway.

[Addiction]

I saw these in one of my buddies store and I bought one simply to have it in my humidor. And anyone who knows men knows I love a Siglo.

I don't know how I feel about it. I guess it kind of rankles me but so do Montecristos, RyJs and red dots. I mean its the same thing or worse, especially when they start touting the 100 year old tradition of red dot cohibas in their ads.

As far as Pepin or Pete I don't mind those. To package your original cigars in packaging thats close to a popular standard is acceptable (think Chrysler 300 to Bently), its the American way. But the line between that and outright ripoffs is thin and yellow and gold siglo VIs crosses that line in my opinion.

[Addiction]

One other slight correction. Imperial Tobacco doesn't own the Cuban Brands. Imperial Tobacco owns the right to distrubute cuban brands. Well technically Imperial owns half of SA Habanos, which owns the right to distribute cuban cigar brands. Cubatobacco owns the brands and tobacco, SA Habanos buys the cigars from Cubatobaco.

I'm pretty sure that means that Altadis will be OK when the Cubans come back to America. But I'd also be pretty sure that it means General will be screwed since Altadis has no reason not to give them the shaft.

[md4958]

I really dont follow where Pete Johnson is cheesy for packaging his cigars in cabinets? Most CCs are available in cabs AND dress boxes. Im really not sure how Pete Johnson got thrust into this conversation at all???

Perhaps its a marketing gimmick. But I find that most companies that NEED gimmicks, their products tend to not stack up to the competition. Tatuaje dont need to be gimmicky IMO. I think they are GREAT cigars. Full of flavor and almost always perfectly constructed.

Perhaps hes just paying homage to the the old-school way of doing things with the cabinets, and the simple (almost cheap) looking bands. After all, as somebody mentioned, these are Pepin products and I have no problem with tradition.

Maybe he just wants the cigars to speak for themselves.

Sorry to jack the OPs thread. I too saw the Siglios prominently displayed on the back of the cataloger and just shook my head.

[Footbag]

I really dont follow where Pete Johnson is cheesy for packaging his cigars in cabinets? Most CCs are available in cabs AND dress boxes. Im really not sure how Pete Johnson got thrust into this conversation at all???


I didn't start it, but it's probably my fault.:D
I just pointed out that Pete does a few things that I would consider cheesy if the cigars didn't stand on their own. Cabs, Green Labels, Factory Codes, Old Cuban Brand Names. Pete's lines are more about making cigar in the traditional Cuban way.
Best example, the triple cap. DPG does a better Triple cap then the Cubans IMO. This makes for a better cigar. Better construction and less likely to unravel. As does cab storage. So for those reasons, I can see why Pete does it.
I can also see where some sub-par brands would want to have their packaging look like Cuban packaging to stimulate sales. It probably works for a lot of people. I has seen a ton of those Dominican Cohibas before they were pulled from the market.

[md4958]

Best example, the triple cap. DPG does a better Triple cap then most Cubans IMO.

:tpd:

Agreed, with one alteration! (I try not to speak in absolutes)

The construction of Pepins cigars show the skill AND pride of the roller.

[Footbag]

:tpd:

Agreed, with one alteration!

The construction of Pepins cigars show the skill AND pride of the roller.

Totally agree, pride in ones work is the best form of quality control.

[SmokinApe]

I agree the triple cap = better construction...

Aside from the stuff you listed Pete also; makes RE's which is a poser thing to do IMO, has "secret" releases for cigars that aren't supposed to exist, and names cigars after boogey men... but they are DPG's so it's OK... BTW, I own and smoke more DPG than any other NC...




I didn't start it, but it's probably my fault.:D
I just pointed out that Pete does a few things that I would consider cheesy if the cigars didn't stand on their own. Cabs, Green Labels, Factory Codes, Old Cuban Brand Names. Pete's lines are more about making cigar in the traditional Cuban way.
Best example, the triple cap. DPG does a better Triple cap then the Cubans IMO. This makes for a better cigar. Better construction and less likely to unravel. As does cab storage. So for those reasons, I can see why Pete does it.
I can also see where some sub-par brands would want to have their packaging look like Cuban packaging to stimulate sales. It probably works for a lot of people. I has seen a ton of those Dominican Cohibas before they were pulled from the market.

[md4958]

I agree the triple cap = better construction...

Aside from the stuff you listed Pete also; makes RE's which is a poser thing to do IMO, has "secret" releases for cigars that aren't supposed to exist, and names cigars after boogey men... but they are DPG's so it's OK... BTW, I own and smoke more DPG than any other NC...

ok, that stuff above, Ive gotta admit, is unnecessary and all marketing.

I do love me some West and East costs though!

[Footbag]

ok, that stuff above, Ive gotta admit, is unnecessary and all marketing.

I do love me some West and East costs though!

:tpd:

But they're tasty. DPG's and Tat's are my goto NC's as well.

[SmokinApe]

lol, I smoked a Havana IV on Saturday!

[md4958]

lol, I smoked a Havana IV on Saturday!

another thread jack:

Try the Havana Veracrou (sp?) No 9. Its a Holts excluive and damn tasty! Had one of those yesterday.

[oldforge]

The ad that sent me over the edge was a vendor claim that La Aroma de Cuba was the brand loved by Winston Churchill.

The words are correct but the intent is simply fraud (imho).



---

I saw these in one of my buddies store and I bought one simply to have it in my humidor. And anyone who knows men knows I love a Siglo.

I guess it kind of rankles me but so do Montecristos, RyJs and red dots. I mean its the same thing or worse, especially when they start touting the 100 year old tradition of red dot cohibas in their ads.

[rizzle]

...
As for the Pete Johnson discussion...is it really a double standard? He is blending, rolling and packaging his cigars in the Cuban style, but what's wrong with that? That's the original, old way to do it regardless of where it came from. He's not copying any brands with the same packaging, art, bands, vitola names, etc. or claiming to have 150 years of history that he doesn't like Altadis and General do. He's not copying anything of theirs really, he's just doing it in their style. The closest thing Pete does to that is La Riqueza, but that's not a current Cuban brand anyway.
Bingo. Very well put.

And what is HSA?

[rizzle]

I agree the triple cap = better construction...

Aside from the stuff you listed Pete also; makes RE's which is a poser thing to do IMO, has "secret" releases for cigars that aren't supposed to exist, and names cigars after boogey men... but they are DPG's so it's OK... BTW, I own and smoke more DPG than any other NC...
But it's not a poser thing for cuban cigar maufacturers to produce an RE? Nah, no double standard at all.

I love the cc vs nc discussions and attitudes.:r

[s15driftking]

I can pretty safely say I will never smoke one just because of its marketing.

In my opinion that is ignorant and snobbish x10 :(

I have 1 question for you:

1. Didn't your parents ever tell you not to judge a book by it's cover?

[SmokinApe]

But it's not a poser thing for cuban cigar maufacturers to produce an RE? Nah, no double standard at all.

I love the cc vs nc discussions and attitudes.:r


CC RE's are something that is ordered from the importer. Pete decided to make his own and selectively distribute them.

[Darrell]

They're nasty. Our rep gave me one before they were ready for production.

[Nabinger16]

In my opinion that is ignorant and snobbish x10 :(

I have 1 question for you:

1. Didn't your parents ever tell you not to judge a book by it's cover?

How many people bash on fake CC's around here that haven't even tried them?

They're real cigars too, just marketed to be something they are not. So is it... ignorant and snobbish x10 :( for people to not smoke them just because of what they are or maybe are not?


There's so many good cigars on the market and I'll personally never be able to try them all. Why would I want to wast my time on a cigar that can't stand on its own merit and not be marketed like some poser?

[Darrell]

In my opinion that is ignorant and snobbish x10 :(

No, it's personal choice. Welcome to America Bobby.

[thebiglebowski]

There's so many good cigars on the market and I'll personally never be able to try them all. Why would I want to wast my time on a cigar that can't stand on its own merit and not be marketed like some poser?

:tpd:

and i'm not saying you're stupid. the intent of this cigar is clear - to trick the inexperienced into buying what they think are cohibas.

[s15driftking]

No, it's personal choice. Welcome to America Bobby.


i hear you 100% D-man. I'm just saying that perception is reality... and my perception of his statement is that it is quite an ignorant statement.

and to take "perception is reality" to the next level... his perception is that the cigar will suck... so he made that comment.. hence the ignorance....



You were right Darrell, this is America... and i for one think that this country is amazing and full of opportunity. I also think that a lot of people are ignorant in their own ways ... but that statement was just wow...



EDIT - i'm not going to get into a pissing contest with the (nabinger) guy on a cigar forum... the weather is too nice and the fairways are too perfect. sorry bud!

[SmokinApe]

People buy cigars because of the packaging, why wouldn't bad packaging cause people to not buy them?

[LordOfWu]

:tpd:

and i'm not saying you're stupid. the intent of this cigar is clear - to trick the inexperienced into buying what they think are cohibas.

Having talked to the rep, and seen what Altadis has done with the new NC Trinidad bands, I don't think they are trying to trick anyone, they want to get their brands aligned for when the embargo ceases to exist. They are establishing their brand here for when they can provide multiple versions. Will some people buy them because they look like Cohiba's? Probably. It's been going on for longer than this, and will go on for longer than this cigar will last.

I'm a fan of smoke it, if it's worth it, buy it, if not, don't. BTW, I have tried that cigar, doesn't do much for me, too light, not enough flavor.

[thebiglebowski]

i hear you 100% D-man. I'm just saying that perception is reality... and my perception of his statement is that it is quite an ignorant statement.

and to take "perception is reality" to the next level... his perception is that the cigar will suck... so he made that comment.. hence the ignorance....


actually, if you read his original post, nabinger states that he refuses to ever smoke this cigar due to it's marketing ploys (paraphrasing here). he never said he's sure the cigar will suck.

and as far as perception being reality? that's only if you choose to take it that way. that's always been a pretty vapid phrase...

[s15driftking]

and as far as perception being reality? that's only if you choose to take it that way.

point taken

[rizzle]

CC RE's are something that is ordered from the importer. Pete decided to make his own and selectively distribute them.

Tomatoe, tomato. Accomplishes the same end result.
:2

And I understand your point.

[Nabinger16]

Like it's been said, I never commented directly on the cigar. I never said the cigar was going to suck. I said that sort of marketing ploy annoys the living crap out of me, and I have no desire to smoke the cigar because of it.


FYI... Being referred to as:
ignorant and snobbish x10 :(
multiple times isn't something a casual "sorry bud" usually covers. Even if was just my comment you didn't like, it was still pretty crappy.

I'm not looking to get into a pissing match either, so I'm just going to leave at that.

[hank_612]

I smoked a Siglo at the local shop yesterday. It tasted like every other general cigar but it did have a tad more spice. Maybe at 3 bucks it would be worth giving to a golfing buddy who you don't like.

[s15driftking]

Like it's been said, I never commented directly on the cigar. I never said the cigar was going to suck. I said that sort of marketing ploy annoys the living crap out of me, and I have no desire to smoke the cigar because of it.


FYI... Being referred to as:

multiple times isn't something a casual "sorry bud" usually covers. Even if was just my comment you didn't like, it was still pretty crappy.

I'm not looking to get into a pissing match either, so I'm just going to leave at that.

the "Sorry bud" was in reference to the inability to have an arguement whether you wanted one or not. my opinion of your comment still stands.

note - that was merely for clarification.

no reason to be mad nabinger.. it's my opinion and i am entitled to it. i'm sure you have (or now have) an opinion of me and i am fine with it.

[thebiglebowski]

the "Sorry bud" was in reference to the inability to have an arguement whether you wanted one or not. my opinion of your comment still stands.

note - that was merely for clarification.

no reason to be mad nabinger.. it's my opinion and i am entitled to it. i'm sure you have (or now have) an opinion of me and i am fine with it.

not trying to kick the horse, but was just persuing some new posts and saw this thread updated today:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10099

it's interesting you can see the selling point of the pre-embargo tobacco trying to lure in the gullible people, but not the selling point of naming a cigar after the much vaunted cuban cohiba siglo line? not to mention designing the packaging so similar to the real deal that most of us did a double take on it...

meh. probably not worth discussing.