More Beetles!

[MTB996]

So, I have been in the non-freeze everything camp for awhile, but I think I need to change my position. I have 2 Vinos and 2 desktops (1 for junk and 1 for good singles). Well, my desktop used to store singles is now infected.

I found several cigars with beetle holes (all form the same shipment of NCs). One in particular had TONS of beetle poop in the celophane and another had a clear hole through the cigar AND through the celphane (I need to look around for the loose demon). My big issue is that humi stores some really nice singles (Esplendidos, Monte A, Sig VIs, other CC and several Opus and nice NCs. TIme to bag and freeze the contents of this whole humi.

I will really need to think about taking all my boxes out of my Vinos and doing the freezing to be on the safe side, but its a lot of work...bummer.

Here's a couple photos. sorry for the large size.

Hole with TONS of beetle droppings
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/mtb996/Beetles/0401092224b.jpg

Hole with corresponding hole in plastic.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/mtb996/Beetles/0401092225.jpg

Please check your stash and be proactive....

Also, I thought hard about not showing the band, as Rob is A+ and the best vendor I have ever dealt with, but wanted everyone to be aware- this is in NO WAY a negative on Rob or his cigars, it can happen to any brand.

[Nabinger16]

Man... That sucks! I hope you get a handle on it and that's is as far as it ends up going.

Good luck!

[BamBam]

Just drop Rob a PM. He'll make it right. We all know how his customer service is top notch.

btw everytime I read one of these beetle threads it makes me nervous

[SixPackSunday]

that sucks, sorry to hear.

[MTB996]

Just drop Rob a PM. He'll make it right. We all know how his customer service is top notch.

btw everytime I read one of these beetle threads it makes me nervous

I just sent him a note from his website - NOT expecting him to make it right, these things happen and just want him to be aware. Heck, I have won far more cigars from Rob's generosity over the past year than cigars lost to beetles, so its a non issue wrt expecting anything from him. I will certainly keep buying from him.

[BamBam]

I just sent him a note from his website - NOT expecting him to make it right, these things happen and just want him to be aware. Heck, I have won far more cigars from Rob's generosity over the past year than cigars lost to beetles, so its a non issue wrt expecting anything from him. I will certainly keep buying from him.

Same here. But you and I both know that Rob will make it up to you whether you want him to or not. :tu :r

btw just smoked a LR Maduro today from Taboo and it was awesome

[white_s2k]

Wow, that really sucks. It can happen to anyone.. I might want to rethink my stance on freezing new shipments now!

[lightning9191]

That sucks man....at least you caught it before it got too out of control.

[MTB996]

All bagged up and into the freezer. Glad to know the wife recently bought a vacuum sealer. I am going out of town for a few weeks, so 3 weeks in the freezer should work just fine.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/mtb996/Beetles/downsized_0401092327.jpg

[alley00p]

I bought a "grab bag" of sticks from a big online retailer last summer and in going through the bag I found 4 sticks that had beetle holes going through the cellophane and into the cigars. I immediately took all of the sticks and popped them in the freezer for overnight, just to be safe.

The other time this happened to me it was a box of Twist Robustos - 4 sticks had beetle holes in the cello and the cigars. The rest of the box was fine, and I called Rob to let him know, just so he could check the rest of his stock. Rob immediately replaced the bad sticks without me asking. And I continue to be a customer at Rob's shop, mainly because I know he stands behind his products! :tu

I had not been a proponent of freezing cigars, but after reading Silverfox's thread on damage, I freeze virtually every box that I purchase.


:dance:

[bonjing]

i'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, but when did you get these? I just some cigars from taboo a couple weeks back and i am a little concerned. i have never frozen any of my cigars, but i may have to try it out with a few now.

[alley00p]

i'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, but when did you get these? I just some cigars from taboo a couple weeks back and i am a little concerned. i have never frozen any of my cigars, but i may have to try it out with a few now.

I'm thinking probably last September. That being said, I've since ordered another box of Robustos, and probably 40-50 Limited Reserves since then with no problems at all.

Beetle eggs exist in almost every stick you might buy, no matter what brand or vitola; but they don't normally hatch if the cigars are kept at the proper temps and humidity. And, this isn't a problem with Taboo - it can happen in any cigar that isn't stored properly.

Check out Shawn's very informative post here (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7919&highlight=freezing+cigars) :tu

Don't worry - Be Happy!!!! :ss


Charlie

:dance:

[davearob]

I had the same experience with a bundle of HSG corona's a month or so ago. I actually found the little bugger still in the bundle. Only one cigar was lost. Froze the shipment and everything has been clear since. I will definitely order from Rob again. It just the damn exchange rate is hurting me.

[ECPrevatte]

Was your temp above 70's?

So far I have read nothing will happen if they are stored in the correct temp.

[Homebrewer]

Thanks for the heads-up. This is the kind of thing that keeps me awake at night. I just did a major inspection and came up clean. I have several Taboo cigars in different compartments.

[troutbreath]

Wow. That sucks. Good luck with your irradication process -- it's good to put the wife's new toys to work for your hobby! I'm wondering what mine would say if I took over the freezer . . . not a lot of space in there to begin with.

[goalie204]

beetle threads creep me out, but everything is in my vino, so its all 64 degrees, and 65 or less humidity, hatch free imo

[borndead1]

Freeze everything.

[borndead1]

Freeze everything.

I freeze every cigar I get, no matter what country it's from and no matter if it's 1 cigar or 100 cigars.

[karmaz00]

that sucks man

[Coz77]

Was your temp above 70's?

So far I have read nothing will happen if they are stored in the correct temp.



:tpd:I store cigars in my cool dry basement and never had a prob. The Humi never goes above 70°

[MTB996]

Was your temp above 70's?

So far I have read nothing will happen if they are stored in the correct temp.

Not sure, but I doubt it (it hasn't gotten warm yet in NC). I have 2 Vinos that sit at 60-68F, but this was my room temp desktop. I suppose there is a chance the damage is from last fall or earlier (where the house temp would be likely higher than 70) but I would have thought I'd either seen it earlier or had more sticks affected.

[shortstory5]

I lost some sleep last night due to that picture. Maybe freezing after receiving shipments is the way to go...

That picture scares the crap outta me.

[Mr Edmundo]

These types of posts really freak me out!!! With all the buying I've been doing lately, from so many different sources. I'm wondering if I should be proactive and start freezing everything. I would hate to lose a big chunk of inventory. I've been lucky so far, and everything is at 70 or less at all times. Most are stored in the basement where, if anything, the temps may be too low, at around 60 to 65. I did just check every stick while updating my inventory. Probably helps that I have them spread through 3 desk top humidors and 3 coolers/tupperware containers.

[promethius]

Freaky, I too hate these posts. I have been freezing everything that comes into the house for a few months now, regardless of shipping or local b&m. Haven't noticed any diffrence in flavor and I can sleep without wondering what happens in the dark of the humidors :)

[BC-Axeman]

I started checking before I finished this thread. I have never yet had beetles but there will be a first time. Not this time.

[e-man67]

I too have my humidors stored in my cool dry basement that never gets above 70...I have never had an issue in 15yrs....should I be concerned? Is it just the warmer temps that make the bugs come out? :confused:

[dannyboy]

I found a beetle hole in a Taboo Twist about 3 weeks ago...that was my fear being hear in Hawaii with no AC, temps rarely drop below 70. I bought a mini Vino within two days and all my cigars are resting comfortably at 65/65 right now. I sure hope nothing can happen at that temp...now you have me worried.:(

[Patron]

Found beatle holes in 3 Taboo HSG's out of a bundle purchased about 3 weeks ago. Never froze before but I guess I'm going to have to start. :(:(

[coreyb]

I started checking before I finished this thread. I have never yet had beetles but there will be a first time. Not this time.

That was me until last week. Only one stick though. Still a little shocker.

[Oppe]

This is the method I usually follow; if the lacioderma decide to hatch I gather up all the cigars in the affected enviroment and give them two days in the freezer, then two days in the fridge to slowly thaw them and then finally a dark place (closet) to fully thaw at room temperature. That should send any worms about to hatch back into slumber and save the day.
Remember low temperature and low humidity, in my opinion, is almost always better than a humidor that randomly spikes past 70 degrees.

[big a]

Atleast you were able to catch them before it was too bad. How fast are these able to spread and destroy all of your stash? I just re-checked all of my cigars and so far im good however I think I might freeze all my sticks anyway.

[ECPrevatte]

It was very hard for me to keep my 100ct humidor under 70 degrees. During the day it would spike up to like 76 degrees. I just ended up getting a vinotemp small 6 bottle.

[SilverFox]

beetle threads creep me out, but everything is in my vino, so its all 64 degrees, and 65 or less humidity, hatch free imo

Until they do

[okieRob]

Man that picture creeps me out. :al

With summer around the corner I'm about to start freezing - no way I'll keep my humi temp down below 70 around here.

- Rob

[mcmoyer]

i just dug through the box with my latest purchase & found the little bastards in the HSG Lanceros...off to the freezer the rest go. Like okieRob, there's no way to keep the temps down below 70.

:al

[SmokinApe]

I think I am seeing a trend here... better check my stash...

BTW, storing your cigars at 65F doesn't help much if the eggs hatched before you got them...

[Texan in Mexico]

Afternoon all,

I live in Cancun and like the fellow in Austin, it is really a challenge to keep temps below 75, let alone 70!

In my experience and the little I have read, the beetles are a result of humidity not temperature.

Again, I am by no means an expert but my vinos stay well below 70% but the temps do go above 70 F on a regular basis and have not had a problem.

You will find opinions saying that it is temperature and others saying humidity but in my experience it is humidity not temperature that causes the bettles to come out.

Travis

[SmokinApe]

Well, IMO beetles come from beetle eggs... Most reputable manufactures either freeze or fumigate product to prevent breakouts... but the little buggers (mostly eggs) sometimes get past the manufactures and infest the retailers after hatching during the shipping process... and sometimes they don't hatch until the ride to the consumer from the retailer and infest your entire collection...

[ROTHNH]

Plenty has been said here about freezing cigars and its benefits, against which there is little argument.

However, a couple other things must be stressed.

Unless you have absolutely NO electric power where you live and where you store your cigars, you can very easily keep them stored properly. It costs some money and it will take some time on your part, but your investment in your cigar collection should include your committed investment in taking care of those cigars. This means finding and using the storage for them in a relatively well-sealed, 65-70 degree F. temperature and 65-70% RH environment, period.

[Good_Stogies_Mon]

Just for the record I had some bugs in a shipment of HSG coronas a month or so ago as well. Rob took care of me on it though so no biggie but I was glad that I found them before they went in with the rest of my cigars.

[Homebrewer]

I just froze all recent Taboo purchases. I saw no sign of bugs, but better safe than sorry.

[scooter]

I found this article on the dreaded beatle. As I suspected it doesn't kill all of the eggs! There are several pest eggs that can live through long periods of time at very cold temps and hatch when the conditions are right.


Another common trick homeowners will try is to freeze
any food or other items they think is the
key to their problems. This is another futile
effort which is just a waste of time. Though
freezing will kill active adults and larva,
the eggs and pupa will readily survive these
conditions for many months. This means you
will have to keep items frozen for long
periods of time if you expect to break the
cycle and you will have to have access to
a large freezer

[ROTHNH]

I found this article on the dreaded beatle. As I suspected it doesn't kill all of the eggs! There are several pest eggs that can live through long periods of time at very cold temps and hatch when the conditions are right.


Another common trick homeowners will try is to freeze
any food or other items they think is the
key to their problems. This is another futile
effort which is just a waste of time. Though
freezing will kill active adults and larva,
the eggs and pupa will readily survive these
conditions for many months. This means you
will have to keep items frozen for long
periods of time if you expect to break the
cycle and you will have to have access to
a large freezer

As mentioned, it must again be stressed that most cigars and other tobacco products no matter what method(s) are used to irradicate them, contain beetle eggs. Even if you freeze all your cigars as recommended, it is very hard, if not impossible, to kill all the beetle eggs.

Freezing isn't enough. If you're not storing your cigars properly, whatever your excuse for not doing so, beetle eggs can and will hatch in your smokes at some point, likely ruining at least some of your cigars.

Take a look at those pictures at the infested cigars in this thread once again. Don't let this happen to you.

Do your research. Find and use a cigar storage system that keeps your cigars in a relatively well-sealed, 65-70 degree F. temperature and 65-70% RH -- constantly monitored -- environment. Not doing this puts your precious smokes at high risk.

[sepp]

As mentioned, it must again be stressed that most cigars and other tobacco products no matter what method(s) are used to irradicate them, contain beetle eggs. Even if you freeze all your cigars as recommended, it is very hard, if not impossible, to kill all the beetle eggs.

The science says otherwise...

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/aez/41/1/87/_pdf

This is the abstract of the Japanese study. It indicates that 1) acclimated larva are the haredest in the life cycle to eradicate and 2) that near 100% mortality can be achieved given proper technique.

Even though Habanos now freezes all stock that leaves the warehouses, the boxes are mixed with older stock and other country stock as it makes it way through the supply chain. Can not say the same happens for other countries of origin thus reinfection can occur at any point the stock leaves the freezer.

Since your humi is the last stop in the supply chain you can cut off the life cycle (no matter where it got started) by freezing on arrival.

just my 2 cents

[Drat]

Below is the Fahrenheit conversion of the white paper chart for beetle mortality that I redid when I discovered beetles in my party short cab.

Keep in mind that most home freezers at their lowest setting only go down to about 17 degrees F. As long as the larval stage has not been acclimated to 60 degrees for several months before freezing occurs, 4 days in a home freezer should result in 100% mortality.

Cigarette Beetle Mortality White Paper Chart

Stage/Temperature (F)/100% Mortalitiy (hours)
Egg............-4...................1
..................5...................4
..................14.................12
..................23.................48
..................32................240
..................41................336

Larval .........-4.................1
..................5..................3
.................14.................12
.................23.................96
.................32.................288
.................41.................336

Acclimated larval (59 degrees for 1-3 months)
.................-4.................1
..................5..................6
.................14.................24
.................23.................504
.................32.................1176
.................41.................1680

Pupal.........-4..................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................4
.................23.................48
.................32.................288
.................41.................840

Adult..........-4.................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................2
.................23.................72
.................32.................288
.................41.................840

[WildBlueSooner]

Below is the Fahrenheit conversion of the white paper chart for beetle mortality that I redid when I discovered beetles in my party short cab.

Keep in mind that most home freezers at their lowest setting only go down to about 17 degrees F. As long as the larval stage has not been acclimated to 60 degrees for several months before freezing occurs, 4 days in a home freezer should result in 100% mortality.

Cigarette Beetle Mortality White Paper Chart

Stage/Temperature (F)/100% Mortalitiy (hours)
Egg............-4...................1
..................5...................4
..................14.................12
..................23.................48
..................32................240
..................41................336

Larval .........-4.................1
..................5..................3
.................14.................12
.................23.................96
.................32.................288
.................41.................336

Acclimated larval (59 degrees for 1-3 months)
.................-4.................1
..................5..................6
.................14.................24
.................23.................504
.................32.................1176
.................41.................1680

Pupal.........-4..................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................4
.................23.................48
.................32.................288
.................41.................840

Adult..........-4.................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................2
.................23.................72
.................32.................288
.................41.................840

Wow..nice data!:tu