On the eve of Schip, any boycotters? [Archive]

Tio Gato

03-31-2009, 06:00 PM

Sorry if this has been knocked around before, I didn't find it in a search.

Anyone not going to buy cigars in protest of the Schip tax increase? I'm sick and tired of paying so much taxes. I figure I've got enough cigars to last 4 or 5 years put away. I'm confident that these taxes will never be repealed, even if we have "universal health care". Maybe I'm wasting my time thinking that the many $ I spend a year will be missed by the industry.

So, I'm asking, have you thought about not buying cigars in protest?
I guess I'm madder because I decided to visit a B&M near me to pick up "one last cigar" and they had decided to go out of business.

I'm mad, anyone going to stop buying cigars?:mad:

BORIStheBLADE

03-31-2009, 06:01 PM

Yes I'm going strictly CC now.:ss:ss

Smokin Gator

03-31-2009, 06:07 PM

This tax, like many others, will never bring in what they projected... so they will come up with another one to cover for it.

Raralith

03-31-2009, 06:24 PM

Yes I'm going strictly CC now.:ss:ss

:tpd:

14holestogie

03-31-2009, 06:26 PM

Yep, cc's all the way. :tu

bookman

03-31-2009, 06:38 PM

I can handle it. For me going to my tobacconist (JR's) is a social thing anyway. I rarely buy online. So I may not buy boxes anymore but JR's has a great selection of five/ten packs and hundreds of singles to try.

MedicCook

03-31-2009, 06:42 PM

I think if you boycott all you will do is hurt the people trying to run their business especially the small mom & pop B&M's.

SeanGAR

03-31-2009, 06:45 PM

No, actually I'm going to my local to buy some smokes.

These ridiculous taxes are going to be putting people out of work.

Frankly, I don't mind the liars at RJR having to flip burgers due to tax increases, but the guys at my local are gold, and I'm showing up to buy some cigars in support of their store.

F*n tax and spend morons in government.

Did y'all see the picture of what a trillion dollars looks like? You absolutely couldn't fit that much money in $100 bills floor to ceiling in my house.

Did I mention the morons in DC?

shortstory5

03-31-2009, 06:45 PM

I'll never stop buying cigars...

Beer Doctor

03-31-2009, 06:59 PM

Waynegro1

03-31-2009, 07:01 PM

I'm definitely MAD!! :fl I just don't see how they lump Premium Cigar tobacco in with Cigarettes. After all, cigars aren't full of chemicals and toxic additives. A cigar smoker doesn't smoke a "Pack" of cigars a day. A cigar smoker doesn't inhale smoke into his/her lungs. Cigars are a minimal health risk compared to cigarettes IMO. That being said, cigarettes will contribute the majority of tax dollars.

As far as a protest, I could smoke a couple cigars daily, for a couple years and not run out. I won't protest because I love my B&M and would hate to see them go out of business.

The whole things frustrates me. It just seems oxymoronic to fund a segment of health care with something that the government deams unhealthy. :confused:

That's all, I need a cigar :ss

MedicCook

03-31-2009, 07:04 PM

Maybe people need to start throwing cigars into the Boston Bay. :r

Beer Doctor

03-31-2009, 07:05 PM

Think positive: At least we don't pay Canadian tobacco taxes:D

ECPrevatte

03-31-2009, 07:32 PM

I wonder how many people will be at my B&M tomorrow.

duckmanco

03-31-2009, 07:43 PM

I am done stocking up, have smokes for many many years to come, in fact so much I am worried about aging stuff too long.... oh well

At any rate, I will only be buying exceptional deals/closeouts or switch to those manufactures/retailers who attempt to absorb the increase or at least lend a hand with it. We'll all see if that happens.

s15driftking

03-31-2009, 08:06 PM

Anyone not going to buy cigars in protest of the Schip tax increase?

I am going to do it as long as i can. I honestly am. I have been buying up cigars by the dozens in the last month.

Additionally, i am going expand on my CC collection and buy "non taxable" cigars for the most part now.... Imagine that.. .200 gurkhas and 200 CC's ... MMMMMMM

chippewastud79

03-31-2009, 08:23 PM

I think the idea of boycotting buying cigars is actually going to be slightly counter productive. Some B+M's have said they will struggle to stay open with the new taxes and I think this would be far more sad to see B+M's close than paying the price increases. In the end the tax will likely not go away, we are going to be stuck with it. It is similar to gas prices, people often say "I'll stop buying gas when it goes over $X.XX" but we all still buy gas. The same is likely to happen with cigars, "I'm never buying cigars again", but we all know we will. :2

Side note: After talking with Micah at the Party Source, the price increases won't filter down from the manufacturers until the B+M's order new stock, so there should be some period of non-SCHIP prices on certain cigars.

JaKaacH

03-31-2009, 08:27 PM

Think positive: At least we don't pay Canadian tobacco taxes:D

What Slope?????

Once it starts....

ChasDen

03-31-2009, 08:32 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am). The cap is 40 cents per cigar. So If you buy a box of 20 cigars. The price will increase 8 bucks. A 100 dollar box will be 108 and a 500 dollar box will be 508. Meh. I'll still buy cigars. It sucks but I'll still buy.

The problem with that is everyone down the line uses this as a way to add their cut.

My wife smokes cigarettes. Here they have already went up over a buck a pack since the bill passed and the tax has not even been added yet. So the announced $1 a pack will actually be $2 a pack once everyone gets their cut. Cigars may not be that bad but we will just have to wait and see.

Chas

darkninja67

03-31-2009, 08:35 PM

Maybe people need to start throwing cigars into the Boston Bay. :r

cigars? More like politicians. Starting with this tard Patrick here in MA.

I will not stop buying cigars. I will try to slow down a bit though.

MedicCook

03-31-2009, 08:35 PM

I though this was a current stock tax also. Not only are they going to hit the vendors new puchases but also tax what they have already purchased and placed into stock.

TripleF

03-31-2009, 08:37 PM

I think if you boycott all you will do is hurt the people trying to run their business especially the small mom & pop B&M's.

Wise words my friend. One wouldn't affect our goverment in any way by boycotting cigars, only hard-working Americans who took the chance to live a dream by starting their own business.

ChasDen

03-31-2009, 08:39 PM

I though this was a current stock tax also. Not only are they going to hit the vendors new puchases but also tax what they have already purchased and placed into stock.

Nope the floor tax got removed from the final version.

Its my bet most stores will just raise everything tonight.

One store I was in today buying opus was having everyone working after close tonight, I assume to change prices :mad:

Chas

TripleF

03-31-2009, 08:41 PM

Nope the floor tax got removed from the final version.

Its my bet most stores will just raise everything tonight.

One store I was in today buying opus was having everyone working after close tonight, I assume to change prices :mad:

Chas

Where I work we are not raising prices until we see it on the invoices. I dig my boss for doing that. We have received a couple of orders this week and haven't increased the price one penny. :D

ChasDen

03-31-2009, 08:42 PM

Where I work we are not raising prices until we see it on the invoices. I dig my boss for doing that. We have received a couple of orders this week and haven't increased the price one penny. :D

ME too :tu

That's the way it should be!

Thank him from me.

Chas

chippewastud79

03-31-2009, 08:43 PM

Nope the floor tax got removed from the final version.

:tpd:The tax is filtering down from the manufacturer, they are getting taxed on the stock they are selling, which in turn means higher prices for the B+M's and higher prices we have to pay for our cigars. The only ones getting directly taxed are the manufacturers when they sell their product and the rest just see the trickle down of said tax. Atleast thats how it was explained to me. :2

bookman

03-31-2009, 09:25 PM

The more I think about it the more I think I'll probably stop shopping online and solely support my B&M.

ECPrevatte

03-31-2009, 09:26 PM

This is actually a big April Fool's joke. Government is winning too. :r

SmokeyJoe

03-31-2009, 09:30 PM

ChicagoWhiteSox

03-31-2009, 09:33 PM

The more I think about it the more I think I'll probably stop shopping online and solely support my B&M.

+1 for the local B&M's:tu

Beer Doctor

03-31-2009, 09:46 PM

The problem with that is everyone down the line uses this as a way to add their cut.

My wife smokes cigarettes. Here they have already went up over a buck a pack since the bill passed and the tax has not even been added yet. So the announced $1 a pack will actually be $2 a pack once everyone gets their cut. Cigars may not be that bad but we will just have to wait and see.

Chas

I agree. I'm not saying I like the tax but I'm not going to stop buying cigars because of it. I hated paying 3 bucks a gallon for gas but I did. Luckily I found the dark side and will probably concentrate my online buying to that. Ironically I'll be going to my B&M much more now in spite of SCHIP because of all the smoking bans here in WI. I'll be there tomorrow and we'll see if they raised prices o/n.

troutbreath

03-31-2009, 09:47 PM

Stocked up quite a bit over the last several months. I hope that my contributions to the B&M's (exclusively purchased from my favorite stores) will carry them for a while. I probably have enough to last to the next election.

I am sure, however that I will buy more when the next shipment of Opus X arrive, or in the summer when the Anejo's arrive. I'm weak.

stitch

03-31-2009, 10:53 PM

The Saint

03-31-2009, 11:16 PM

Its not a real big deal on the cigars that sell for say 60, 80, 100+. But the days of cheap yardgars may be a thing of the past. I know I won't spend $30 on say a bundle of mixed filler cigars(that was around 20 bucks before the BS-chip), I'd rather spend $20 bucks more on something else. But, more than likely I'll just buy less quanity and more quality and try to curb my 5-6 a day down to 2-3.......there is always going the CC route.:dr Besides, with the new taxes CC's are in most cases going to be cheaper the NC's.

alley00p

03-31-2009, 11:22 PM

I think if you boycott all you will do is hurt the people trying to run their business especially the small mom & pop B&M's.

:tpd: I will still buy... just not as much or as often.

But it does make me angry. :mad:

:tpd: +1

I buy the majority of my sticks at local B&M's anyway... any online ordering will go towards the "dark side"

:dance:

GWags

03-31-2009, 11:23 PM

Ciggy smokers are getting slammed in the arse!! All this tax has done for me is to expand my horizons to non taxed cigars. I'll still buy cigars from my B&M but I'm now sharing that budget with tax free purchases. I think it's safe to assume the tobacco tax will only go one way from here - this is just begining. Kinda like arse wipe - we'll keep buying it......for now.

GWags

03-31-2009, 11:30 PM

Where I work we are not raising prices until we see it on the invoices. I dig my boss for doing that. We have received a couple of orders this week and haven't increased the price one penny. :D

Integrity is a mf'er - once you lose it, it's gone. Your boss has his, no question!:tu

JJG

04-01-2009, 03:27 AM

Yes I'm going strictly CC now.:ss:ss

this is my plan too. although I will probably make a point now to stop in to the friendly neighborhood B&M for singles, just to show my support for the little guy. They're the ones really feeling the pain from all this.

adampc22

04-01-2009, 05:16 AM

i hate taxes the tax on cigars we have a 360% tobacco tax. u guys in america can get cc's about 3 times cheaper than i can legaly here lol funny that aint it

macpappy

04-01-2009, 05:41 AM

When I last talked to the owner of my local B&M (about a month ago) he was in the process of ordering as many boxes of cigars as he could afford and had storage space for. Since there is no floor tax, he is not raising his prices until he goes through his stock so we shouldn't see a price increase for a couple of months and then the price will only goes up as necessary to cover his increase cost.

He's a good man.

Lucky_Hippo

04-01-2009, 06:05 AM

I'm glad to hear of so many B&M sticking to their guns instead of sticking it to their customers. Unlucky for me, I stopped at my local B&M yesterday to meet a buddy. A sign taped to the walk in humi said "Get your cigars today. Starting tomorrow ALL cigar prices will increase by 56 cents."

Sin taxes suck.

Blueface

04-01-2009, 06:11 AM

I love the "cc" responses.

Just wait a month or so.
I really think the doors are about to open with Cuba.

What an opportunity for the US to tax all those cigars also.:r

newcigarz

04-01-2009, 06:15 AM

Yes I'm going strictly CC now.:ss:ss

Rumor has it that HSA is about to roll out a price increase. :2

BORIStheBLADE

04-01-2009, 06:16 AM

this is my plan too. although I will probably make a point now to stop in to the friendly neighborhood B&M for singles, just to show my support for the little guy. They're the ones really feeling the pain from all this.

Usually when I go to mt local B&M I bring one of mine then buy one of theirs. So... I'm still helping them out.

e-man67

04-01-2009, 06:25 AM

Yeah, so now they have the SCHIP tax in effect and at the same time in neighboring Kentucky they bumped alcohol tax up 7%! Double screwed! So now where we use to get alcohol a few bucks cheaper now it will cost the same and more......it will cause major hardships for KY I am afraid. Just a matter of time before they place a fat tax on fast food.....:rolleyes:

borndead1

04-01-2009, 06:55 AM

I love the "cc" responses.

Just wait a month or so.
I really think the doors are about to open with Cuba.

What an opportunity for the US to tax all those cigars also.:r

Same thing I was thinking.

troutbreath

04-01-2009, 07:19 AM

Opening up Cuba and taxing that product is really the only way that this kind of tax will meet anything near the anticipated revenue number. Otherwise, they have killed the cow they intended to milk.

Pitmaster

04-01-2009, 07:52 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am). The cap is 40 cents per cigar. So If you buy a box of 20 cigars. The price will increase 8 bucks. A 100 dollar box will be 108 and a 500 dollar box will be 508. Meh. I'll still buy cigars. It sucks but I'll still buy.
You not wrong except you forgot a couple things. The $8 is at the manufacturer level and they base profits off of percentages so when that profit is calcualted that must figure in the tax. If we only add 50% (low figure) your $8 is now $12, there is also the extra overhead from paperwork but that will be minimal. Next thing is your State OTP (other tobbaco products) tax which gets added on when the Cigars are landed in your state. It varies from state to state but here in Michigan it is 32% so we add that to the $12 which now becomes $15.84. From that point your local retailer must add his profit margin which is anywhere from 35% to 50% depending on how they do business so $15.84 + 35% = $21.38. And this is just to keep things the way they are, if the retailers or manufactires take less, the profit margins go down and they will eventually fade out of business. This is reality. The effect is much larger than we realize. Wait until the guys who only buy $25 bundles see their new price. It will only drive more folks to buy mail order and avoid the State OTP all together. Just my opinion, I could be wrong but my calculator tells me I am not, thanks for listening.
Mike

Beer Doctor

04-01-2009, 08:27 AM

:eek: I just wish I had your cigar budget!

My example was purely hypothetical. My cigar budget is puny:(

oldforge

04-01-2009, 12:19 PM

I saw this coming when the SCHIP debate started a couple of years ago.

I am stocked up to wait out two Obama administrations.

We will see who outlasts who.

tsolomon

04-01-2009, 12:40 PM

I just purchased several boxes of the NCs that I like, but I'll reserve making any claims until I see the new prices. It might hurt my local B&M more as I will be price shopping if the increase is excessive. :2

Dgar

04-01-2009, 01:00 PM

No Boycott here, but I think I will be smoking my pipes more. Schip will effect pipe tobacco as well, but smoking a pipe will still only cost a smalll percentage of what it cost to smoke a cigar.

Bax

04-01-2009, 02:15 PM

Yep, cc's all the way. :tu

Is there room for one more? :D

bookman

04-01-2009, 09:51 PM

Still, this S(hit)CHIP will be nothing like the increase during the boom with all the gouging and so on and so forth.

Waynegro1

04-01-2009, 11:06 PM

Still, this S(hit)CHIP will be nothing like the increase during the boom with all the gouging and so on and so forth.

That was "supply and demand", not a Federally sanctioned tax targeting a specific group. Next thing you know, we'll see Coffee drinkers or Meat eaters (insert your own "Propensity") targeted for taxation, all because the Federal Government deams it unhealthy for human consumption.

My :2 That's ALL
I'm starting to have palpitations. :fl

marge796

04-02-2009, 12:08 AM

I'll never stop buying cigars...

^^^I feel the same way^^^

Don't get me wrong **** the tax man!! :tg

Whee

04-02-2009, 10:37 AM

<-----------

^^^I feel the same way^^^

Don't get me wrong **** the tax man!! :tg

Only if you wear that pink sweater and buy me dinner first.:r:r:r

larryinlc

04-02-2009, 10:42 AM

As I look around at the various online vendors I use regularly, I see no price changes. Possibly the large mark-up in cigars allows them to absorb the new tax??

Larry

leafandale

04-03-2009, 04:36 PM

As I look around at the various online vendors I use regularly, I see no price changes. Possibly the large mark-up in cigars allows them to absorb the new tax??

Larry

No. Like someone in an earlier post stated; The tax increase is at the manufacturer level and is in effect on all shipments of cigars imported (or produced as is the case for US based makers such as Don Pepin) into the US on or after April 1. So, several cigar makers are not raising their prices until their current stock is depleted and new shipments arrive from their factories. Others have elected to raise prices on April 1. Others, such as Drew Estate, elected to raise theirs in the middle of March.

So retailers who have inventory on hand at the old price would theoretically continue to offer the old price to their customers UNTIL such a time as they receive new orders that they placed AFTER April 1.

Bottom Line: When we get a shipment in and the invoice reflects a NEW, higher price as a result of SCHIP, we will then adjust our price accordingly... and not before.

Final Note: You will notice prices going up considerably higher than the .40 cents everyone it talking about. A few reasons are added state tobacco taxes, retailer margins (we gotta pay the bills), and PRICE INCREASES THAT ARE NOT A PART OF SCHIP BY SOME CIGAR MAKERS. I won't mention any names here, but one VERY popular cigar maker has also added a price increase on their entire line IN ADDITION to the SCHIP tax.

So you will see a wide range of price increases on different brands. Tatuaje and Esencia are the only two that I know of that have elected to absorb the entire tax increase... at least for this year.

lightning9191

04-03-2009, 05:16 PM

I won't mention any names here, but one VERY popular cigar maker has also added a price increase on their entire line IN ADDITION to the SCHIP tax.

I wonder who it is? :confused:

troutbreath

04-03-2009, 08:21 PM

No. Like someone in an earlier post stated; The tax increase is at the manufacturer level and is in effect on all shipments of cigars imported (or produced as is the case for US based makers such as Don Pepin) into the US on or after April 1. So, several cigar makers are not raising their prices until their current stock is depleted and new shipments arrive from their factories. Others have elected to raise prices on April 1. Others, such as Drew Estate, elected to raise theirs in the middle of March.

So retailers who have inventory on hand at the old price would theoretically continue to offer the old price to their customers UNTIL such a time as they receive new orders that they placed AFTER April 1.

Bottom Line: When we get a shipment in and the invoice reflects a NEW, higher price as a result of SCHIP, we will then adjust our price accordingly... and not before.

Final Note: You will notice prices going up considerably higher than the .40 cents everyone it talking about. A few reasons are added state tobacco taxes, retailer margins (we gotta pay the bills), and PRICE INCREASES THAT ARE NOT A PART OF SCHIP BY SOME CIGAR MAKERS. I won't mention any names here, but one VERY popular cigar maker has also added a price increase on their entire line IN ADDITION to the SCHIP tax.

So you will see a wide range of price increases on different brands. Tatuaje and Esencia are the only two that I know of that have elected to absorb the entire tax increase... at least for this year.

This is the B&M that helped me stock up the most. Thanks, Mike! Good to hear about Tatuaje -- I had already hearda bout Esencia. But, I bought a box of Esencia PC's and Tat Unicos at your store in February . . . so I guess I missed their generosity.

This is a GREAT store, if you ever find yourselves in Knoxville.