Do you believe in Karma?

[Blueface]

I have always wondered.
So many, including me, say what goes around comes around.
For that reason, I try to follow the Buddhist way of living as much as I can.

I have never found joy in any type of human calamity, even when it involves those that have harmed me in some way.
I treasure life and truly wish no one any harm.

Two years ago next month, my daughter had a car accident.
She was 8 months pregnant at the time.
She was following a vehicle too close I guess and ended rearending it and pushing it into the vehicle in front of her.
Ended up being a three car collision with her hitting the one in front of her and pushing that vehicle into the one in front of that.
My daughter's car was a mess in the front. $4k in damages.
The vehicle she first struck sustained considerable rear end damage with some very minimal damage to the front.
The front vehicle had a scratch in the bumper.

My daughter called me hysterical and I went to the scene with my wife.
My daughter was a mental mess when I arrived.
She hit herself on the steering wheel and was feeling pains.
She refused ambulance treatment. My wife and I finally convinced her to let us take her to the hospital when it was all over.

The guy in the last vehicle truly only had a scratch. I am well trained in auto body and estimates. He had no structural damage whatsoever. No reinforcement damage on the bumper. No unibody damage of any kind. Just a scratch on the cover. To prove my point, his final damages payment was around $500 which involved body work to the bumper, removal to repair it, putting it back on and the labor and materials, including paint. In spite of minimal damage to his car, this guy almost had my daughter's boyfriend kill him, with me right behind him to make sure he finished the job.

You see, this guy had no concern about a pregnant 19 year old. He had no concern about her potential life threatening injury to an unborn child. He was more concerned with telling her what evil she could die from and more concerned with faking injuries at the scene to file a subsequent lawsuit. He cussed her out. He yelled at her. He made her the mess she was when we arrived. Basically, that SOB could have been the reason for me not having a wonderful grandchild today. A pregnant 19 year old, injured, drove away with me. He was hauled in a stretcher by an ambulance.

Here is the reason for my question of Karma. I just learned his case was settled. He received $9,500 for his troubles. One third of that goes to his attorney. While it infuriates me he received that, being in the insurance business, in my state, had my insurance company not settled for that, a ridiculous jury could have taken it out on the insurance company and awarded hundreds of thousands. While learning of the settlement, I also learned of his demise. He has terminal prostate cancer and has a short time to live, hence the rapid need for a settlement and no trial down the line.

One last thing. My daughter swears that car in the front, this guy's, stopped for no apparent reason.
The car in front of her that she first hit said the same thing.
The people in the middle car had no injuries and never filed any and had a small child with them.
I suspect he was seeking some money and found a way to cause an accident.

So..........I feel awful right now. I feel awful because I truly wish no one any harm but yet find myself with some weird sense of joy that there is Karma. You get back what you dish out. He may be getting $6,000 but he won't have much time to enjoy it.

[JE3146]

Interesting story... and I have to say I'm a firm believer of karma. It seems good things happen to me only after I've been good to others. I try to live by that philosophy as much as possible. I figure even if it's a load of crap, it at least lets me feel good about my actions, and that at the very least is comforting enough to have a better day than most.

[Ashcan Bill]

I'll be nice. No comments about the gentleman in question.

But you did give me a bit of a smile this morning! ;)

[Da Klugs]

Carlos... grandchild OK is the big issue.

Intentional? I believe there are folks out there looking to do exactly what you describe. Have had a few near misses based upon "phantom stops". Law is funny about rear end collisions.. it's always the one in the rears fault.

Karma? Faith? PIF? Good things come to good people? No good deed....? Life has may intersecting and overlapping circles both seen and unseen. The unexpected rewards of a good life are both internal and external. The external aspects being those typically described as Karma, fate, the lords will..etc. I believe that the majority of people are good the majority of time. Makes life a positive experience. You increase the odds of experiencing it from external sources by being good to a greater degree but good will find you none the less in some form or another based upon the odds, most people are good people. The same is true with the opposite.

[Mugen910]

I beleive in Karma to the fullest..If it feels weird that you would smile at the demise of another keep in mind that it was not your doing to cause that person harm.

My biggest concern would be the daughter and grandchild.

Time has a funny way of altering things in life.

[Don Fernando]

Karma yes, I believe in it. What goes around comes around.

[mrreindeer]

He was hauled in a stretcher by an ambulance....

He received $9,500 for his troubles.

Seriously, wtf? That sucks Carlos. I too have been hit (twice in the last year) by two different people who claimed it wasn't their fault when it clearly was. Fortunately, there were no injuries but my 1-week new car last April suffered $4k in damages in the first accident. This guy who hit me told me to call Fox (the studio for which he worked) and they'd take care of everything. When they finally got a hold of the guy, he changed his story and said it was my fault (I'm sure, so he could save his job) which it most certainly was not.

And Fox had a nifty little way of skirting liability.

My insurance co, directed at Fox's insurance co: "Do you take responsibility for the accident."

Fox's insurance co: "Nope."

My insurance co: "Hmmm......well, let's take this to arbitration, okay?"

Fox's insurance co: "Nope."

Case closed and I had to cough up my $1k deductible. Could have been worse, much worse, could have had more damages, there could have been injuries, could have cost more...but if the guy was a standup guy which we should all strive to be, he would have stepped up and taken it like a man.

Throughout the whole thing, I was pretty calm, took a bunch of pictures and thought it was pretty obvious that the guy who hit me from the rear (yeah, get that...) was at fault.

Guess he'll get what's comin' around.

2nd accident....long story short, I'm watching a crazy woman driving in traffic & almost side-swipe several cars in the 2 mile stretch while I've watched her. I should have moved off the main road and let her kill somebody but instead, I kept on. I was tired and just wanted to get home but I did call 911 and reported her. Just before she hit me.

And then somebody from a car behind her comes out and consoles her as she's a complete basket case and claiming that she corrected her reckless driving. I guess I was invisible that day. And yet, it was nice that I was there to eventually stop her reckless driving by being the pillow into which she drove.

While I absolutely feel your pain Carlos, just remember that it could have been worse and try not to let it eat you up that this guy is getting off with a wad of cash (it ain't easy). You have to live your life the best way you know how, be the best person you are, exercise gratitude like you do with having your daughter & grandson safe & sound, and things will work out. Some people really suck but if you're doing the best you can with the life you control (and you can only control yours), well, things like the joy you have with your grandson will be the much deserved reward.

[CasaDooley]

Like we used to say in the military, karmas a M@#%*R F^@&%R.
Sorry to hear it happened in the first place Carlos, glad no one was seriously hurt.

[G G]

In the Bible it's known as the law of reaping and sowing. Not trying to make this about religion, but just my beliefs. I have seen it as well.:tu

[NCRadioMan]

Sounds like a fun couple of weeks Carlos. :D

The dude with the well pump, the tv and now this. What's next?

[karmaz00]

yup im a believer...dude my last name begins with karma

[rrplasencia]

Karma yes, I believe in it. What goes around comes around.

:tpd:

[ucubed]

I too am a HUGE believe in Karma. One of the few things I truly and absolutely believe in. All the effort I put in now might seem to be a waste, but I know that Karma will come back around and good things will happen if I continue on this path of giving.

[taltos]

I don't believe in karma in the Bhuddist manner but as a Catholic, I believe that your good deeds are given credit and you pay for your misdeeds. The difference is that I don't feel that repayment has to be in your time on earth.

[Footbag]

I do not believe that Karma is passive. In other words, karma only works if you and others are actively practicing it. Being that I go through my life trying to be conscientious of others, I just hope it comes back, and it usually does.

[ahc4353]

I don't know what I believe anymore. All I know is that I have been show more generosity and kindness in the past 12+ months then I could have possibly been "due" by the combined good deeds I have done in my lifetime.

My dad always said, "just try and be a little better person today than you were yesterday".

I'm working on that.

[Blueface]

My dad always said, "just try and be a little better person today than you were yesterday".

I'm working on that.

That is a great way to live and what I too try to follow.
I have always believed in leading by example.

[ahc4353]

As a side not Carlos, if I wind up half the man my dad was I'll die happy.

[Mr.Maduro]

If I believe, does this mean I have to start being nice to you? :confused:

What will I do for fun? :r

[Blueface]

As a side not Carlos, if I wind up half the man my dad was I'll die happy.

As a side note to your side note::D
Here is a poem I treasure hanging in my home's office.
It is in Spanish and I am translating it.

Life is like this:
At 7, dad is a genius

At 10, seems to me dad is wrong on occasions

At 14, dad doesn't know anything

At 21, dad is behind the times, has old thinking

At 30, this is a tough/delicate situation, let me consult with dad

At 40, had my dad had my experiences in life to date, at my age, my dad would have been a self made millionaire.

At 50, dad was a genius. Too bad I realized that too late.

[Tombstone]

Job 4:8 says, “As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.”

This is biblical...around way before 'Karma'...

[Cyanide]

Haven't read this full thread as I am quickly jotting this down over lunch (5 minutes before I have to drive back to work).

Sorry to complicate this for you, but;

Prostate cancer is typically a slow growing cancer that frequently metastasizes to the brain and skeleton by the time it is found, let alone "terminal". So, this fellow could very well have had the cancer by then (most likely) and probably had mets to skeleton and brain.

This would have made him not a terribly good candidate for being a safe driver. Further, it could potentially make his skeleton (especially spine) very brittle where-ever the mets were that they could have snapped under incredibly little load (even slipping on a stair, not even falling, could cause a vertebra to crush). Thus, very little trauma could lead to incredibly significant injury.

So, this might be a case of mis-identifying cause and effect and thus obliterating the concept of karma in this case.

Sorry for throwing this out there. I do feel empathy for your plight.

Cheers

Cyanide

[Don Fernando]

Job 4:8 says, “As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.”

This is biblical...around way before 'Karma'...

are you sure? Isn't Budism older then Christianity? *this is a geniune question*

[Footbag]

are you sure? Isn't Budism older then Christianity? *this is a geniune question*

Buddhism is older then Christianity. Buddah lived and achieved enlightenment around 500 BCE. Judaism did begin about 1500 years before this.

So the Judeo-Christian belief system is older then Buddhism. But not Christianity. Since the Book of Job was Old Testament, it predates Buddah.

[pnoon]

Job 4:8 says, “As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.”

This is biblical...around way before 'Karma'...

are you sure? Isn't Budism older then Christianity? *this is a geniune question*

Buddhism is older then Christianity. Buddah lived and achieved enlightenment around 500 BCE. Judaism did begin about 1500 years before this.

So the Judeo-Christian belief system is older then Buddhism. But not Christianity.

Now that the question has been answered, the thread can get back to it's original topic.

Just as a reminder to everyone, like politics, discussing religion is not permitted at CA.

[Blueface]

Haven't read this full thread as I am quickly jotting this down over lunch (5 minutes before I have to drive back to work).

Sorry to complicate this for you, but;

Prostate cancer is typically a slow growing cancer that frequently metastasizes to the brain and skeleton by the time it is found, let alone "terminal". So, this fellow could very well have had the cancer by then (most likely) and probably had mets to skeleton and brain.

This would have made him not a terribly good candidate for being a safe driver. Further, it could potentially make his skeleton (especially spine) very brittle where-ever the mets were that they could have snapped under incredibly little load (even slipping on a stair, not even falling, could cause a vertebra to crush). Thus, very little trauma could lead to incredibly significant injury.

So, this might be a case of mis-identifying cause and effect and thus obliterating the concept of karma in this case.

Sorry for throwing this out there. I do feel empathy for your plight.

Cheers

Cyanide

Darn doctors!!!:r:r:r

However, you have shed some very interesting light on his "back" injury claim alleged. Still can't figure out how a man in so much pain was smoking a cigar at the scene as he rested from the yelling he gave my daughter.

Hey, he was a cigar smoker. Has to have a nice side.

[Cyanide]

Darn doctors!!!:r:r:r

However, you have shed some very interesting light on his "back" injury claim alleged. Still can't figure out how a man in so much pain was smoking a cigar at the scene as he rested from the yelling he gave my daughter.

Hey, he was a cigar smoker. Has to have a nice side.

And that is where I step back into the shadows. While it is totally possible that he was feeling no pain after the endorphin rush of screaming at someone, I am not going to defend that (obviously its indefensible).

[IBQTEE1]

Yep, I truely believe in karma. Whether it be good or bad. It is amazing.

[Don Fernando]

Now that the question has been answered, the thread can get back to it's original topic.

Just as a reminder to everyone, like politics, discussing religion is not permitted at CA.

just to make it clear Peter, it wasn't a discussion, just a simple question. Me, being an atheist, wasn't sure on the statement made, therefore I ask for clarification, which I got :)

[hova45]

I definitely believe in Karma, eventually si haces algo mal en este mundo las pagas aqui o cuando mueras, si no en tu proxima vida. Thats what my grandparents always said. Basically if you do something bad in this world you will pay it in the after life or if you reincarnate. :pu

[LooseCard]

I believe in Karma too... for what it's worth.

I try to be the better person, always helpful. And no, I don't take true pleasure in someone else's misfortune.



I had 'one of them' accidents in 2006. I stopped work on my Van because if they came back to re-assess the 'further damage' they would have totalled it and given me pennies in value. Thought that it was good karma, that I was actually getting full value on my discounted purchase.

I spent 6 months with decreased activity, months of trips to the physical therapy only to be followed with a few more months with chiropractics. (I'm not actually complaining...) And ended up gaining 100 pounds, after just having lost 80+, from becoming sedintary.
Now, two years later, my case is having issues because my lawyer screwed up. He has informed me that I may be forced to bring suit against him, due to this error, in order to get anything for my troubles.

Not that I'm eager or money-grubbing, but I was hoping for a nice down-payment on a house, and get out from being under someone else's thumb.

The Karma in this, you ask? He was required to inform me, and his 'malpractice' insurance company told him 'it was in his best interest to settle with me' on the case.

[hotreds]

You reap what you sow I certainly do believe!

[Cyanide]

If we are talking about whether we believe in Karma or not (as opposed to offering empathy to the bad turn of events affecting BlueFace)....

Then I would have to further clarify:

I am willing to believe in "Karma" as the predictible consequences of one's own actions while interacting with the world through (mal)adaptive behaviours. Sure, you treat people in a crappy way and people will return the favour once they come to recognize your behaviour (no one helps you out of your misfortune when they recognize that you relish in other's misfortune). Or, you run through life in a wreckless pattern and the consequences of doing so wil catch up to you (like getting a ticket because you choose not to renew your license plate, or you get in more car accidents because you drive carelessly/selfishly). I would accept "what goes around comes around" in those circumstances.

But, to believe that somehow we are cosmicly accelerated towards a fate of deserved (but not directly related in a "cause and effect" fashion) consequences? I wouldn't accept that. The concept is too internally non-consistent to use to predict or rationalize events in our lives.

For BlueFace to say this guy "had it coming" and accept that as Karma, but to not look at LooseCard's misfortune as a form of Karma for his own misdoings? This is internally-inconsistent. It is for this reason (amongst others) that I would not believe in some mystical Karma. Bad things happen, good things happen. Whether it affects "good" people or "bad" people or anyone at all is governed by much more trivial and unrelated factors, not whether or not "it is deserved". Also, remember most "good" people have their "bad" moments, and if that was all that you had to reference them by, you would leave with the "bad" impression.

And remember:

When I evaluate your actions, by default I count them as a product of your person. But, when I evaluate my own actions, by default, I count them as a product of my environment. How easy we change the nature of motivation and circumstance simply by changing our vantage point.

Cheers

John

[pnoon]

Some have communicated to me that the subject of karma, by definition, is religious in nature. Technically, you are correct. My point (and my perspective) was that the intent ofg the thread was not religious in nature but more of a WGACA type of question. Had I or any admin believed it to be religious in nature, it would have been closed immediately.

Some folks have taken offense at my prior post and let me know about it. I meant no offense. But I stand by my position. Others have respectfully communicated with me and engaged in mature discussion about it and for that I thank you.

[Blueface]

Some have communicated to me that the subject of karma, by definition, is religious in nature. Technically, you are correct. My point (and my perspective) was that the intent ofg the thread was not religious in nature but more of a WGACA type of question. Had I or any admin believed it to be religious in nature, it would have been closed immediately.

Some folks have taken offense at my prior post and let me know about it. I meant no offense. But I stand by my position. Others have respectfully communicated with me and engaged in mature discussion about it and for that I thank you.

Peter,
You are absolutely correct.
I never intended it as a religious term and should have clarified.
It was intended purely as a term commonly used by many to mean what you do is what you get in return.

In my case, a person that was so cruel to a pregnant child, who is now compensated for alleged injuries not sustained in that accident, will likely not enjoy much of that money due to his serious ailment.

[BC-Axeman]

Still, sometimes karma needs a little help... just sayin'.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

You reap what you sow I certainly do believe!

:tpd:

[pnoon]

Peter,
You are absolutely correct.
I never intended it as a religious term and should have clarified.
It was intended purely as a term commonly used by many to mean what you do is what you get in return.

In my case, a person that was so cruel to a pregnant child, who is now compensated for alleged injuries not sustained in that accident, will likely not enjoy much of that money due to his serious ailment.

You and I were on the same wavelength, Carlos.

CA has since its inception not permitted political or religious threads. There is a fine line between discussion of government vs. politics. There is also a fine line between, shall we say, spiritual vs. religious discussion. We have a Thoughts & Prayers forum.

The admin team does its very best here to leave well enough alone but when topics clearly cross a line, we have no choice but to step in. There will always be those that disagree with an admin's judgement or actions. There is no escaping that. But all of us set our personal feelings aside (with respect to politics, religion, etc.) and try to act in the best interests of the forum. Those that find that unacceptable are free to find other communities more in line with their expectations.

[Blueface]

You and I were on the same wavelength, Carlos.

CA has since its inception not permitted political or religious threads. There is a fine line between discussion of government vs. politics. There is also a fine line between, shall we say, spiritual vs. religious discussion. We have a Thoughts & Prayers forum.

The admin team does its very best here to leave well enough alone but when topics clearly cross a line, we have no choice but to step in. There will always be those that disagree with an admin's judgement or actions. There is no escaping that. But all of us set our personal feelings aside (with respect to politics, religion, etc.) and try to act in the best interests of the forum. Those that find that unacceptable are free to find other communities more in line with their expectations.

Peter,
I would ask to change the thread title to "do you believe what goes around comes around" or anything to that effect.
May save any further misunderstanding as that is what I meant by the whole thing.
My apologies for the resulting confusion.

[LooseCard]

For BlueFace to say this guy "had it coming" and accept that as Karma, but to not look at LooseCard's misfortune as a form of Karma for his own misdoings? This is internally-inconsistent.

Ahh... but is it 'misfortune' for me?

How easy we change the nature of motivation and circumstance simply by changing our vantage point.

I can name my price, being reasonable, and don't have to pay a Lawyer his 1/3.

I don't necessarily see that as a misfortune.


The admin team does its very best here to leave well enough alone but when topics clearly cross a line, we have no choice but to step in. There will always be those that disagree with an admin's judgement or actions. There is no escaping that. But all of us set our personal feelings aside (with respect to politics, religion, etc.) and try to act in the best interests of the forum. Those that find that unacceptable are free to find other communities more in line with their expectations.

You're doing fine. Keep up the good work.
You guys all deserve a cigar for putting up with this lot.

[Cyanide]

I guess I always undervalue money vs things such as decreased health, activity, lost opportunities etc. And seeing this thing drawn out made me think how life would have been much better had the original incident never happened to you.

None-the-less, when we see "bad things" happening to "bad people" we are inclined to call it "Karma"....but when we see "bad things" happening to "good people", we call it bad luck, misfortune, whatever....there is a logical disconnect here....either Karma doesn't exist (clearly the case) or those good people are maybe not so deserving of the title.

Karma ain't my b!tch

[Blueface]

Peter,
In further thinking about this thread, per my PM to you, I would like to request to shut it down.

I really never even imagined it could evolve into a religious type of thread and as I have already said, it was not the intent.

I have learned from this as I often use the word Karma without ever considering the religious aspect. I use it more as a common manner of speech used by so many.

I wish I would have named the thread differently to keep it on track. I just wanted to know if folks believe things come back to those that do good and likewise, things come back to those that don't based on the news I had heard from my attorney's office regarding the settlement of the case.

The English language will always fascinate me. What means one thing to one, means something else to another.

[68TriShield]

hit the report button Carlos,he'll see it.

[pnoon]

hit the report button Carlos,he'll see it.

No need. I got it.