Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical storage?

[lightning9191]

I was wondering today if anyone has noticed a difference with cigars stored vertical vs horizontal. I can't imagine that any great effect would be found. Has anyone tasted/heard of an effect due to storage orientation?

[WildBlueSooner]

I was wondering today if anyone has noticed a difference with cigars stored vertical vs horizontal. I can't imagine that any great effect would be found. Has anyone tasted/heard of an effect due to storage orientation?

Interesting questions...I for one have never heard of anything on this. Maybe a more experienced B/SOTL will know something about it.

[BeerAdvocate]

I started storing my lancero's vertical in a El Triunfador box. I hope it doesnt matter.

[lightning9191]

I thought of this earlier while playing a little Tetris. I was thinking that if any effect was to be noticed it would be on gravity's effect on the oils.....but I'm not sure this would happen at all.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

I would like to know as well:confused:

[SixPackSunday]

maybe online vendors store their cigars vertical and THATS the difference from the b&m?:ss

[imthegoal]

Actually from what I have heard and read storing cigars vertically can cause the foot to crack. I guess if you think about it all the weight of the cigar is sitting on the foot as apposed to across the full length of the cigar when the are stored horiztally.

[bobarian]

I am pretty sure that cigars are not familiar with the Law of Gravity. :r

[BeerAdvocate]

The El Triunfador box has foam in the bottom to prevent cigars from cracking

[Ashcan Bill]

My cigars aren't too bright - they just can't seem to tell up from down. ;)

Seriously, I store my boxes in whichever way I can get the most crammed in. I've never noticed a difference in the way they smoke.

[taltos]

The only thing that I do is if a cigar comes without cellophane such as JDN's, I store them horizontal. Ones in cello I store however they will fit in the coolers.

[Smoke Naked]

all those people that store them in those acrylic jars probably could tell ya

shilala comes to mind
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showpost.php?p=96699&postcount=227

[bookman]

I had some Belinda's stored vert. in a crystal jar and they aged with a divine bloom!

[s15driftking]

Actually from what I have heard and read storing cigars vertically can cause the foot to crack.


what about storing them with the head on the bottom?

[Smoke Naked]

what about storing them with the head on the bottom?

but won't that cause a nicotine rush to the head:r

[s15driftking]

haha, nice wit!

back on topic, i do wonder about this... i currently have two CC boxes standing vertically... someone help before they get vertigo!!

[SeanGAR]

I am pretty sure that cigars are not familiar with the Law of Gravity. :r

Not so, my good man.

If the cigars are stored vertically, with the feet facing down, all of the "goodness" (sorry to be using such a technical term) will slowly but surely drip out of the cigars.

I base this on tasting cigars stored horizontally and stored foot down. Blind tasting has shown a clear preference for those stored horizontally.

Now, you probably are thinking ... shouldn't they be stored vertically, but foot up because, after all, if the "goodness" can drip out foot down vertically, it might still drip out, albeit more slowly, if stored horizontally?

Yes, this is indeed the case. In fact, my butler has done an experiment to test this and has found that "foot up" cigars taste better.

So there you go .. conclusive proof.

[14holestogie]

Not so, my good man.

If the cigars are stored vertically, with the feet facing down, all of the "goodness" (sorry to be using such a technical term) will slowly but surely drip out of the cigars.

I base this on tasting cigars stored horizontally and stored foot down. Blind tasting has shown a clear preference for those stored horizontally.

Now, you probably are thinking ... shouldn't they be stored vertically, but foot up because, after all, if the "goodness" can drip out foot down vertically, it might still drip out, albeit more slowly, if stored horizontally?

Yes, this is indeed the case. In fact, my butler has done an experiment to test this and has found that "foot up" cigars taste better.

So there you go .. conclusive proof.

legendary.....:r

[s15driftking]

Not so, my good man.

If the cigars are stored vertically, with the feet facing down, all of the "goodness" (sorry to be using such a technical term) will slowly but surely drip out of the cigars.

I base this on tasting cigars stored horizontally and stored foot down. Blind tasting has shown a clear preference for those stored horizontally.

Now, you probably are thinking ... shouldn't they be stored vertically, but foot up because, after all, if the "goodness" can drip out foot down vertically, it might still drip out, albeit more slowly, if stored horizontally?

Yes, this is indeed the case. In fact, my butler has done an experiment to test this and has found that "foot up" cigars taste better.

So there you go .. conclusive proof.

i wish i had a butler!!! :r

[nozero]

i wish i had a butler!!! :r

:hm I'd rather have a maid...

[troutbreath]

Good stuff. I hope there is no impact, as tetris has forced me to this option.


I wonder if there is a tendency for the cigars to "warp" over time, rather than remaining straight?

[s15driftking]

:hm I'd rather have a maid...


like this???

http://assets.spirithalloween.com/images/spirit/products/processed/00508796.zoom.a.jpg

or like this???

http://www.halloweencostumes4u.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000003/888527.jpg

[SeanGAR]

like this???

or like this???



Kinda depends .... do you need a right guard for your flag football team?

[ucla695]

Playing cigar Tetris in my cabinet has led me to store a couple of boxes vertically. I opted to store them caps side down so as not to damage the feet. I haven't noticed any difference in how they smoke and don't think there are any problems with it.

[taltos]

Not so, my good man.

If the cigars are stored vertically, with the feet facing down, all of the "goodness" (sorry to be using such a technical term) will slowly but surely drip out of the cigars.

I base this on tasting cigars stored horizontally and stored foot down. Blind tasting has shown a clear preference for those stored horizontally.

Now, you probably are thinking ... shouldn't they be stored vertically, but foot up because, after all, if the "goodness" can drip out foot down vertically, it might still drip out, albeit more slowly, if stored horizontally?

Yes, this is indeed the case. In fact, my butler has done an experiment to test this and has found that "foot up" cigars taste better.

So there you go .. conclusive proof.Were they stored in a B&M or in an Internet facility?:D

[Mr Edmundo]

I am pretty sure that cigars are not familiar with the Law of Gravity. :r

On the contrary. They seem to know that they have to fall "down". I've never seen a cigar that didn't understand that. :r

[Legend]

Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start? Perhaps based on seangar's testing the big internet guys tend to store verticle!

It could happen.

[Mr Edmundo]

Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start? Perhaps based on seangar's testing the big internet guys tend to store verticle!

It could happen.


Geeze!!!!
Here we go again :rolleyes:

[SeanGAR]

Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start?

I'm glad you asked that question.

Being hydrophilic, goodness is typically attached to the cellulose molecules in the tobacco leaves by hydrogen bonding. The early hypothesis suggested in the 1950s that goodness is attached to the lignins in the tobacco has been shown to be false.

However, as water molecules are present in the environment (70% humidity is RELATIVE humidity of course, and that is relative to pure water at that same temperature and pressure), they compete for the goodness binding sites on the cellulose.

It comes as no surprise, thus, that storage at very high humidity causes problems. For one, goodness molecules are freed up and molds are able to feast on them. For another, long term storage at high humidity results in a LGC ... that would be Low Goodness Cigar, for the noobs.

So not only should cigars be stored foot up, but at humidity where the goodnes is not out-competed by water molecules. That has been shown to be around 60-70% RELATIVE humidity.

Storage at too low humidity results in activation of GD enzymes. That would be Goodness Destroying enzymes, for the noobs. That is why you can't store cigars at too low or too high humidities. It all relates to dG/dt .. or the rate of goodness change with time.

[rharris]

So if I store my crappy cigars horizontally underneath my good ones(stored vertically)Will some of the goodness become imparted and replace some of the crappiness? Or is it possible that crapiness rises maybe through osmosis?

[Legend]

I'm glad you asked that question.

Being hydrophilic, goodness is typically attached to the cellulose molecules in the tobacco leaves by hydrogen bonding. The early hypothesis suggested in the 1950s that goodness is attached to the lignins in the tobacco has been shown to be false.

However, as water molecules are present in the environment (70% humidity is RELATIVE humidity of course, and that is relative to pure water at that same temperature and pressure), they compete for the goodness binding sites on the cellulose.

It comes as no surprise, thus, that storage at very high humidity causes problems. For one, goodness molecules are freed up and molds are able to feast on them. For another, long term storage at high humidity results in a LGC ... that would be Low Goodness Cigar, for the noobs.

So not only should cigars be stored foot up, but at humidity where the goodnes is not out-competed by water molecules. That has been shown to be around 60-70% RELATIVE humidity.

Storage at too low humidity results in activation of GD enzymes. That would be Goodness Destroying enzymes, for the noobs. That is why you can't store cigars at too low or too high humidities. It all relates to dG/dt .. or the rate of goodness change with time.

In your model goodness is always deteriorating. Then how do we factor in that aging is supposed to increase the goodness in a cigar typically.

Your theory may still need work. Or I have not understood your excellent explinations.

[rharris]

This thread has given a lot of
Better
Understanding
Longterm
Ligero
Storage
Hydrophillic
Interaction
Terms

OR, B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T. if one prefers.

[SeanGAR]

So if I store my crappy cigars horizontally underneath my good ones(stored vertically)Will some of the goodness become imparted and replace some of the crappiness? Or is it possible that crapiness rises maybe through osmosis?

The density of goodness is so great that, even when it is in the vapor form, it follows gravity to the center of the earth, being so much denser than air. But sadly, crappiness is less dense than air and rises .... and as you no doubt know ... once vapors of goodness and crapiness meet, they cancel each other out, just like matter and antimatter. So you risk a stock of insipid cigars by storing good ones above poorer ones.

[SeanGAR]

In your model goodness is always deteriorating.

If the cigar is stored foot up, the goodness will not leave the cigar, even if it dissociates temporarily from the cellulouse. You can calculate that yourself using Fick's equation if you like. Just remember the ρ of goodness is 11.14 kg/m3. For the cigar to lose goodness, it has to exit the foot ... stagnant layer and all, as a man of your stature would see immediately, that would not happen before centuries pass if stored foot up.

Then how do we factor in that aging is supposed to increase the goodness in a cigar typically.

Actually that is quite simple. Master cases of cigars .... you're familiar with that term right ... being a legend and all ... are used up top to bottom. So .. the longer the cigar box has sat in the remainder of the master case, the more goodness has dripped down from cigars from above. Once the bottom layer is removed from the master case, it will degrade in quality. That is why cigars improve with age and then decline.

Your theory may still need work. Or I have not understood your excellent explinations.

Grasshopper ... you will understand one day.

[rharris]

The density of goodness is so great that, even when it is in the vapor form, it follows gravity to the center of the earth, being so much denser than air. But sadly, crappiness is less dense than air and rises .... and as you no doubt know ... once vapors of goodness and crapiness meet, they cancel each other out, just like matter and antimatter. So you risk a stock of insipid cigars by storing good ones above poorer ones.

So with this new information in mind,would it be safe to say that your theory is perhaps best summed up by saying that Horizontal Organization Reactions Seem (to)Exhibit Some Higher Inclination (of) Taste? Or H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T for short?

[SeanGAR]

So with this new information in mind,would it be safe to say that your theory is perhaps best summed up by saying that Horizontal Organization Reactions Seem (to)Exhibit Some Higher Inclination (of) Taste? Or H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T for short?

EXACTLY!

I love when somebody can summarize a complex theory with a single word ... or acronym I suppose.

[lightning9191]

Dammit this thread went legendary on me :ss

[Sauer Grapes]

Someone is in rare form tonight. Love it!

[md4958]

Just watching this video that was posted in another thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59OIaOQMJDc&feature=related

At around the 9:13 and again at the 10:00 marks, you will see that many of the cigars stored at the Pepin factory are upright. If its good enough for the Don, then its good enough for me :D

[Scottw]

:hm I'd rather have a maid...

I wish I was a legend, actually, I don't. :r

[TOB9595]

I've had sticks stored, in the original boxes and loose sticks, for many a year with no harmful effect to the foot or.....GOODNESS...hahaha

The only time I run into probs is in transit when the sticks, loosely fitted in the box, are banged around or in storage if too many loose sticks, not boxes, are stored on top of others in the vertical position. The weight of what's on top and the storage method, loose or box, is key.

I love FICK's LAW....hahahahahaha

Tom

[G G]

legendary.....:r
Crap Tim, I was thinking that the whole way down and you beat me to it, scary huh.:ss

[bookman]

:hm I'd rather have a maid...

I'm partial to a Pacific Islander house-boy myself...;)