House Foundation Crack Question

[RHNewfie]

Can anyone help me out with knowledge on what would cause your house foundation to crack? We had a lot of reno done in the basement after the fire and the basement was completely redone. Now we have a foundation crack... never had one before, have one now... Now, I say it happened from the demolition and rebuild in the beginning, but of course they will try to say it is not their fault...

Any info appreciated!!

[Da Klugs]

Can anyone help me out with knowledge on what would cause your house foundation to crack? We had a lot of reno done in the basement after the fire and the basement was completely redone. Now we have a foundation crack... never had one before, have one now... Now, I say it happened from the demolition and rebuild in the beginning, but of course they will try to say it is not their fault...

Any info appreciated!!

Had one in our house before we bought it. Waited till closing to make an issue of it. Got a few $$$ off. Per the building inspector, no big deal unless it grows. Marked it with a pencil. Same status 15 years later.

[ahc4353]

Horizontal or vertical?

[RHNewfie]

Vertical and spreading the joy of water into the basement!!

It wasn't there before the fire, but appeared after the demo/reno... so I, of course, maintain that they caused it... waiting to see what kind of push-back I get...

13 months and counting trying to get this finished...

They are being nicer these days because I suspect they are trying to avoid legal action for incompetence!!

[ahc4353]

I'm no expert but have moved and bought a few house in my time.

I have been TOLD that vertical are not so bad. Horizontal means the house is "shifting". I have one of these in my house. :( But my house is old like me. :)

I'm with Dave that it will be fine. For sure get it patched.

Will be interested to read what happens.

[RHNewfie]

Yeah... interesting. This has been a big dogpile from day one...

They started laying the 3rd hardwood floor yesterday (all the others were defective) and they weren't 100 feet in and I stopped the whole thing because the boards were improperly milled and not fitting correctly. Now they are tearing out what they had laid and I have to wait 2 days to get more stock, then let it acclimatize etc for 3 days... then blah blah blah!!!

I am about to blow a gasket...

[ahc4353]

:r





Sorry.

[Starchild]

It sounds like the cracking is being caused by some new settlement of the foundation. During the remodel was there any excavation around the house? Could some of soil under the foundation been washed out by water associated with the fire? Any major structural modifications to the story above the crack?

[RHNewfie]

:r





Sorry.

Thanks Al! :hf

[RHNewfie]

It sounds like the cracking is being caused by some new settlement of the foundation. During the remodel was there any excavation around the house? Could some of soil under the foundation been washed out by water associated with the fire? Any major structural modifications to the story above the crack?

Nope, no digging and no stuctural mods. I am wondering if it may have been caused by a heat/humidity issue that we had here during the summer when they were doing the work. It was so hot and humid in the house (the A/C was out) that the first hardwood floor they put in warped and split.

[Da Klugs]

Vertical and spreading the joy of water into the basement!!

It wasn't there before the fire, but appeared after the demo/reno... so I, of course, maintain that they caused it... waiting to see what kind of push-back I get...

13 months and counting trying to get this finished...

They are being nicer these days because I suspect they are trying to avoid legal action for incompetence!!


Water is a different issue. MIne is high up and dry. You have an issue there. Cinderblock or concrete?

[RHNewfie]

Water is a different issue. MIne is high up and dry. You have an issue there. Cinderblock or concrete?

Concrete... The fun never ends!

[Bear]

Hey Jeff, my sister just had a company inject something into her crack. It was a vertical one and there was a moisture problem that came with it as well.


(OK, I just re-read what I typed... I now feel dirty all over and will be right back after I take a bath in some bleach)


(OK, I'm back now)


Anyways, here's some info.http://www.thecrackdoctor.ca/repairs.htm

[357]

Usually caused by poor drainage. I had this issue with an attached concrete porch. You can have it lifted and filled under by pros, but it's not cheap. Maybe worth it assuming you've already addressed any drainage issues.

:2

[RGD.]

Nothing directed at you - just using your post:


I'm no expert . . .

I am - certified structural foundation repairs is what I do. :D

I have been TOLD that vertical are not so bad. Horizontal means the house is "shifting". I have one of these in my house.

Vertical and horizontal cracks are both bad - depending on the nature and type. Houses are not designed to shift - and cracks are most normally caused by movement.

I'm with Dave that it will be fine. For sure get it patched.

Will be interested to read what happens.

Do not just get it patched - especially until you know what the problem is.


First thing - take some pictures of the wall from a distance, close up and of the outside standing away from the house. Send them to me.

Need the age of the home, type of construction (block, poured walls, etc). Do you have a sump pump system? When did the water start. More detail on weather conditions for the past few years - i.e. normally rain, excessive heat or cold, etc.

How long ago was the fire? Size of fire as in did the fire department use a boat load of water.

Where is your sewer line in conjunction to crack.

Kind of soils you have there - clay, sands, silts, rock, etc etc.

Let me know that stuff and I can give you the most likely causes and then which type of companies to contact to get it fixed.


Ron

[RHNewfie]

Let's see...

The fire was a year ago in Feb 2008.
You can't see the foundation from the outside, the crack is only visible from the inside.
Outside is pretty much clay
House is about 9 years old
Foundation is poured concrete
Yes I have a sump-pump
Water started a few months ago
Weather conditions have been pretty standard average rain, nothing we are not used to.
There is a drainage problem in the neighborhood, nothing that has caused a problem.
We did have some temperature/humidity issues in the house while they were doing the reno. We have some high temps and humidity here in the summer and the A/C was out for a couple of months. It got so hot in the house that the hardwood floor warped and split.

I have attached a pic but I only have my cell right now so it is a bit crappy.

[Volt]

....

[ahc4353]

Like I said WTF do I know. :)

Glad we have someone who does. :tu

Good luck Jeff.

[RHNewfie]

Another

[RHNewfie]

Another...

[RGD.]

Let's see...

The fire was a year ago in Feb 2008.
You can't see the foundation from the outside, the crack is only visible from the inside.
Outside is pretty much clay
House is about 9 years old
Foundation is poured concrete
Yes I have a sump-pump
Water started a few months ago
Weather conditions have been pretty standard average rain, nothing we are not used to.
There is a drainage problem in the neighborhood, nothing that has caused a problem.
We did have some temperature/humidity issues in the house while they were doing the reno. We have some high temps and humidity here in the summer and the A/C was out for a couple of months. It got so hot in the house that the hardwood floor warped and split.

I have attached a pic but I only have my cell right now so it is a bit crappy.

Okay - couple more questions: Does the sump pump run at what you would call normal - i.e. it normally only runs after a good rain - or does it run when you not had any rain.

I don't need to see the crack on the outside picture - I need to see the lay of the land, downspouts, porch etc.

What kind of drainage problem in the neighborhood is going on?

I do need better pictures of the crack - close up and distance showing the whole wall - but tell me this: looking at the crack - does it appear to be the same size from top to bottom? Or is it smaller on one end, larger on the other. If so - which end is smaller - top or bottom. And does the crack extend the full length of the wall -


Ron

[RHNewfie]

In the neighborhood water seems to pool on everyones front line by the street.

It appears to be the same size from top to bottom, I will know the length of it this afternoon.

There is a downspout on the back corner of the house that runs to a pipe underground that then runs out to the street, but follows along beside the house where the crack is.

I will work on getting an outside picture.

[RGD.]

In the neighborhood water seems to pool on everyones front line by the street.

It appears to be the same size from top to bottom, I will know the length of it this afternoon.

There is a downspout on the back corner of the house that runs to a pipe underground that then runs out to the street, but follows along beside the house where the crack is.

I will work on getting an outside picture.


Okay, good. I have to run out and inspect three foundations at the moment - will check back in before bowling this afternoon. Otherwise will check in later tonight at about 11pm when I get home.

So far though from your answers it appears to be an easy fix - but I also like to try and nail down a possible cause so corrective actions can be taken to prevent any future problems.

On this water pooling by the street line - is your front yard higher than your back yard? How long does it take the water to dissipate after you have standing water.


Ron

[RHNewfie]

Another...

[RHNewfie]

Outside...

[RHNewfie]

Last one for now!!

[RHNewfie]

Okay, good. I have to run out and inspect three foundations at the moment - will check back in before bowling this afternoon. Otherwise will check in later tonight at about 11pm when I get home.

So far though from your answers it appears to be an easy fix - but I also like to try and nail down a possible cause so corrective actions can be taken to prevent any future problems.

On this water pooling by the street line - is your front yard higher than your back yard? How long does it take the water to dissipate after you have standing water.


Ron

Thanks for all your help Ron!

Our back is higher than our front, although ever so slightly. Water usually takes a few hours to dissipate.

[RHNewfie]

Oh, the leak is about two feet to the right of where this happened...

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t292/rhnewfie/Fire/DSCN7097.jpg

[smokeyandthebandit05]

I would say the fire heated up the cement and when they sprayed it down with the cool water the cement cracked

[RGD.]

Thanks for all your help Ron!

Our back is higher than our front, although ever so slightly. Water usually takes a few hours to dissipate.


Not a problem - if you were a tab bit closer I'd come out a take a look for you. :ss

One last question - that drain pipe that I am seeing - looks white to me - is it? What color is the pipe at the curb? Should be black. Let me know.

Anyway - just got home, have to clean up and run out for bowling. I will type everything up when I get back around 11pm or so.

Ron

[RHNewfie]

Cool! Thanks!

the pipe out towards the curb is indeed black. The one pictured, is white.

[Cigary]

It sounds like the cracking is being caused by some new settlement of the foundation. During the remodel was there any excavation around the house? Could some of soil under the foundation been washed out by water associated with the fire? Any major structural modifications to the story above the crack?

Been there done this and it is a friggin headache. I know more about this than I wanted to know. First off the brother here makes a valid point because under the foundation is something that is hard to check but you can check all around the foundation but you will have to trench to make sure. Ground settles all around the foundation and if there is some heavy rains ( water table ) saturation of the ground will enhance water and wash out begins. As foundation is washed away water replaces it and you will get hydrostatic pressure,,,,water coming up through the foundation where it is cracked or not sealed. Read this link as it will help you with the questions you have:
http://www.statefarm.com/learning/loss_prevent/learning_loss_wetbaselong.asp

[68TriShield]

Jeff,I just talked to Ron. He asked that I relay to you that his internet went out and is supposed to be repaired tomorrow.
At which point he will get back to you :)

[RHNewfie]

Jeff,I just talked to Ron. He asked that I relay to you that his internet went out and is supposed to be repaired tomorrow.
At which point he will get back to you :)

Thanks Dave! If you are talking to him again you can tell him that the repair crew is coming tomorrow morning. The plan is to drill plug holes inside and run some kind of filler in from the bottom up.

Thanks again!

[68TriShield]

Thanks Dave! If you are talking to him again you can tell him that the repair crew is coming tomorrow morning. The plan is to drill plug holes inside and run some kind of filler in from the bottom up.

Thanks again!
If I do I will Jeff. I hope everything works out perfectly.

[RGD.]

Thanks Dave! If you are talking to him again you can tell him that the repair crew is coming tomorrow morning. The plan is to drill plug holes inside and run some kind of filler in from the bottom up.

Thanks again!

Internet service is up and running for the moment - so will try to type quickly.

What they are going to do is an epoxy injection. This is done several different ways depending on the crack. In your case they will drill a series of small holes and insert ports. Depending on the type of epoxy used they may or may not have to dam it. Done correctly this will bond the surface of the cracks together and also provide a water proof barrier. This is the correct repair for your problem. Epoxy though is not the answer for every crack.

Why did it happen though is very important not only to determine the correct repair procedure but to help prevent future damage. My answer is based on the photos and your response to my questions. Couple of facts first: homes are not designed to "settle" - they are built on a pad or soil certified to hold the weight of the structure. Not all cracks represent a foundation problem. And not all cracks are treated/repaired in the same manner. Reading cracks and knowing if they are convex, concave, eccentric, differential, etc. is key to a good repair.

So, your wall. In my opinion your wall cracked not due to foundation settlement, hydrostatic pressure, fire or otherwise. It cracked due to excessive water combined with the clay that surrounds your home. Expansive soils (clay) can and do exert up to 30,000lbft2 (1400kPa). In layman terms - that's a sh**load of pressure. This is a lot more destructive than frost. Using the photos you supplied - and the fact that the rear of your land is higher than the front - in the photo of the soil there appears to be a silt layer, the grass appears to have not enough sunlight and/or water sitting there. In addition the plastic drain line coming from the downspout is of a different type than leads to the curb. So there is a joint of two materials that do not join up very well - possible causing a leak. In addition the soil against the house could be a bit higher.

Recommend:

01. The epoxy injection they have planned.
02. Doubtful that it will go all the way through so on the outside dig one foot below whatever your frost line is and seal. Best deal is to seal the full length of the crack.
03. Ensure the connection between the two different types of pipe for the downspout make a good seal.
04. Create a swell at least 4 feet away from the home so water coming from the rear of the home does not lay against the home.
05. Make sure there is positive drainage away from the house by adding more soil - prefer a high clay content.
06. Make sure all drains, condensate lines etc. empty at least 8 feet away from the house, downhill.


As foundation cracks go - yours is an easy fix. Had the crack had different characteristics the repair would be different as I can guarantee the epoxy would not have worked.

Looked at four jobs today - two just needed water management - another needs a plumber and the fourth is a 35 foot drop hillside failure that's getting ready to undermine the foundation of a 4 story apartment building - now that will be a fun job - :ss


Ron

[RHNewfie]

Wow!! Thank you for such a detailed write-up! The insurance co is fixing the crack, so I may have to go ahead and do the outside work myself (well, get it done).

Again, I can't thank you enough!!

Jeff

[Cigary]

Wow!! Thank you for such a detailed write-up! The insurance co is fixing the crack, so I may have to go ahead and do the outside work myself (well, get it done).

Again, I can't thank you enough!!

Jeff

Hope you do get it taken care of,,,it's a headache for sure and if the insurance is fixing it that's a bonus. As far as the brother saying it isn't hydrostatic pressure,,,respectfully I disagree because I went thru this and esp. in a clay laden area the water has to go somewhere and when water is present in the water table hydrostatic pressure IS present. Epoxy in some cases is the fix but it takes a very capable company to ensure the right fix and nobody knows until they have been there onsite to see what is going on. Bottom line is you are having it taken care of by the insurance and you will be able to have recourse if it isn't fixed right the first time. Good Luck!

[RGD.]

. . . As far as the brother saying it isn't hydrostatic pressure,,,respectfully I disagree because I went thru this and esp. in a clay laden area the water has to go somewhere and when water is present in the water table hydrostatic pressure IS present. Epoxy in some cases is the fix but it takes a very capable company to ensure the right fix and nobody knows until they have been there onsite to see what is going on. . . .


And it's fine to disagree. To qualify myself though, in addition to my degree and experience - I have ten years in as a certified installer for AB Chance and Drive Rite Helical Pier, Micro-Pull Down Pile, Grout Piles, Carbon Fiber Reinforcement, etc etc. In short this is my job, structural foundation repair, this is all I do and I'm very good at it - :ss

As for hydrostatic pressure - don't confuse that with simple capillary action. Hydrostatic pressure can't cause this damage because it simply does not have the force. Will it cause a leak in a side wall of the basement? Sure - through an existing crack. Now I'm not discounting hydrostatic pressure as being not important - heck I've seen it force water up through a slab crack 4 to 5 feet in the air. But that's in a floor slab where the slab it self creates the surface tension required for the action.

I would like for you to go back and think about what you wrote here: "in a clay laden area the water" . . . clay and water. Add those two together and what are you most likely to get? Expansive soils. And we know that expansive soils can exert 30,000lbft2. More than enough to crack the concrete.

But enough of my rambling - the important deal is that Jeff is getting it fixed - the correct fix - and in the insurance company is paying for it. And that is a big plus. I see literally hundreds of homes a year and if one of them can get the insurance company to pay for it - well it's just unheard of around here.


Ron

[RHNewfie]

Yep! Its getting fixed tomorrow morning at 8 and no cash outta my pocket!!

I will be watching the job and let you know how it goes!

Thanks to all for the advice!

[BC-Axeman]

Hey Jeff, my sister just had a company inject something into her crack. It was a vertical one and there was a moisture problem that came with it as well.
I might just save this for a sig line.:r